Windows 8 and Surface support gaining momentum

Apple, as they usually do, generated a ton of press from both from the tech and mainstream media today with their iPhone 5 announcement. While the iOS smartphone might be a big seller for consumers, some business owners feel that Apple's device is not yet ready for enterprise use.

In fact, a number of tech business leaders seem to be more excited at the prospect of Microsoft's Windows 8 launch, especially with the added weight of the Surface tablet and Windows Phone 8 smartphones. ZDNet.com contacted 200 business leaders in the tech world before today's iPhone 5 announcement to get their opinions.

Overall, a number of the tech executives seem to be at least interested in the iPhone 5, even if some may not upgrade immediately. However, there were others who said that the iPhone 5 didn't make any waves with them. One of them was Adam Gerrard, the CTO at LateRooms Group. He stated:

The new iPhone is not likely to be my next personal device. I'm waiting for the Windows 8 phones and the Windows Surface to arrive before I make my next personal technology investment decision.

Shawn Beighle, the CIO of The International Republican Institute, also expressed a lot of interest in Windows 8 and the Surface, saying he might drop his iPhone if Windows 8 and Surface are successful. He added:

To be completely honest, from a business standpoint I'm much more excited to see how Windows 8 Mobile rolls out, along with Surface. With all three platforms: PC, tablet and smartphone all running the same kernel, while also having Active Directory tied in and the controls that come with that, this has incredible potential.

Dale Huhtala, the executive director of enterprise technology infrastructure services at Service Alberta, feels that iOS devices like the iPhone 5 are not the best fit for corporate use. He added:

We are hoping to investigate the options available with a Windows 8 phone/tablet in the upcoming year. The belief is that these will be more corporate-friendly, though initial investigations are showing that we'll likely need still another set of infrastructure to manage these devices as well. They will be a better fit for the corporate environment, particularly around managing files – something iOS definitely does not do well.

Source: ZDNet.com | Image via Microsoft

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Here is the problem with this article. It states that people are interested in the iPhone5 but there is a higher than thought anticipation for the WP8. They said they polled 200 people and gave quotes from 5. Um, and? Is higher than anticipated only 5? or is it 25? or 100? This is just bad writing on the part of the original story. I mean if you ask 200 people you should be able to break it down and say 100 want the iPhone and blah blah. The fact that they don't give numbers is a problem. So I am forced to think that of the 200 people, only 5 want WP8. Which completely goes against what they were trying to say and makes this a fluff piece trying to over hype WP8.

So said momentum is based on what these people I've never heard of, from companies I've never heard of, say?

Ok

Within a current org of 5000+ BYOD smartphones/tablets and a few hundred corporate provides tablets, I'll tell they all have problems.

Let start with the easy, Blackberry...stick a fork in it.

iOS iphone/ipod/ipad biggest deployment, why? because people like it simple. On the administration and policy compliance without spending $$$ on third-party centralized management it's a royal pain. And yes, I still have an iPhone 4 currently.

Android-based: Have you ever seen a more segmented platform? If they would streamline the OS patch-management and restrict the hardware down (at least a little bit), it could be useful. 2.1.x doesn't work with exchange natively (outside of some original Droids), 2.2.x sorry no corporate Wifi has issues with WPA2+802.1x without rooting. 2.3.x sorry, your device only supports 2.2.x. With 2.3.x and 4.0.x these issues have been resolved but without loading after-market roms you cannot keep current. I have no issues with rooting the device on a personal basis but in a corporate environment this will never fly.

WP7: nice experiment, I'll wait till version 2.0

WP8: could be promising, centralized device management via SCCM, some corporate applications could be easily recompiled to run on the hardware (yes, web-based is always preferred but sometimes not realistic when looking at buildings of developers),


The biggest thing both Microsoft and Google (Android) could learn from Apple platform support. Once a defined base platform is announced, with Apple it is supported for a minimum of two years to be provided the most current OS release on the day it is released. Sometimes not all the features are there due to hardware requirements but the core functionality is.

Apple could really learn to Microsoft on how to support enterprise environments. They have marketed themselves so heavily on the consumer-side but the dis-joined management options for the devices and corporate Apple Store integration is a pain at best.

While the G3 or Lumia 920 have better hardware than the iPhone for many who are not reading this type of site it's about the user experience. They want something that 1) works, 2) is simple, and 3) price. While other phones have better hardware many people just don't care.

Josh_LosAltosHills said,
apple gives release dates and MS doesnt. Just saying.

they have 1 device and no oem's to deal with, what is your point, The iphone5 just looks so dated now with last years tech. They have just become the new WP7, you see how quick that happened. The Nokia 920 just simply is light years ahead of this phone as with several android devices.

Josh_LosAltosHills said,
apple gives release dates and MS doesnt. Just saying.

Don't think WP8 has had its launch day yet. Are you confusing NOKIA and Samsung's press days with Microsoft?

jimmyfal said,
iPhone 5 is starting to look like Internet Explorer 6.
well its becoming such a mature platform it's really hard to inovate anymore. time for the next big thing?

jasonon said,
well its becoming such a mature platform it's really hard to inovate anymore. time for the next big thing?

Windows 8 have off-scale levels of innovation, its kernel have +12 years and its more mature than any apple product ever existed

jakem1 said,
Shawn Beighle might want to do a bit more research. AD can only be used to manage Win8 Pro, not WinRT or WP8.

He said "AD," but he's probably running the full Microsoft stack. As such, he will have access to several other management tools. For example, if he's running Exchange, he can use ActiveSync to enforce certain password policies on the Surface devices.

And that's assuming he actually meant Surface as in Surface RT, rather than Surface as a generic reference to all the devices -- including Surface Pro.

jakem1 said,
Shawn Beighle might want to do a bit more research. AD can only be used to manage Win8 Pro, not WinRT or WP8.

Do you know the differences?

It is like this, there are still policies, and authentication, and resources that AD dictate and control even if the device cannot be integrated into the AD domain.

For example Windows RT won't be able to automatically install a NEW OS from the AD server, nor will AD be able to manage or install new Software on a Windows Phone. As you might be able to guess why on a rather closed device, right?

Think of it like this...

Right now, if you hook Windows Home into the company network (like employee devices), it still is managed by AD, just not on the same level as Windows Professional/Business that can 'join' the domain.

So like Windows Home, Windows RT will operate in the AD domain in a similar manner, which is still a jump over throwing Linux or Macs into the mix as they have little understanding of AD and also cannot join the domain.

The other thing that keeps getting missed is the change in management. AD is evolving and so is Windows. The need for 'device' management is far less important than 'user' management.

Thus assimilating a WindowsRT tablet into a Domain is somewhat pointless, as it is the user that control has to be implemented.

Besides, with a jump in casual devices like WindowsRT/Windows Phone being used by corporate employees, would you want to be the IT manager responsible for 10,000 employees with 2% of them losing a phone every day, or 4% of them adding in a new WindowsRT/Phone device everyday?

This is the evolution of AD and where AD is moving to the cloud and 'domain joining' will no longer be needed to manage devices, and instead will manage 'users'. So users A,B,C will be allowed to do this or that, and users X,Y,X will or won't be allowed to do this or that, and their business 'account' will be owned/controlled by the company, not the device they access the company AD servers with.

Make sense?

As roaming and other features migrate to a cloud infrastructure, a per DEVICE model is antiquated, and that is ALL joining a domain gives Windows Pro computers.

The upcoming InTune (even the current one) is refocusing on AD in the cloud. Add in the System Center Configuration Manager, also moving to cloud and per user AD models, and Windows RT is just fine for business.

In a reverse argument, a personal device like a phone or WindowsRT tablet SHOULD NOT EVER BE joined to a domain in the first place. Not only is it extra IT work for device management, but users should be able to use personal devices without handling over full control of them to the company when there is no need, as policy and security can be applied to the user accounts and not the device.

There is a lot of information talking about this out there, it is not the easiest read, but people that think WindowsRT and business are not a good mix; have not fully followed up nor understand how the line is drawn between consumer devices and fully control workstations/devices.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/arc...terprise-including-woa.aspx

So if joining a domain is essential, based on an older model for enterprise, that is easy, they should be buying the Windows Pro(fessional) tablets ANYWAY to distribute to their workers.

K?

jakem1 said,
Shawn Beighle might want to do a bit more research. AD can only be used to manage Win8 Pro, not WinRT or WP8.

I don't think you quite understand how AD works.

As I understand it, Windows 8 RT devices will integrate with Intune. Intune can be integrated with Active Directory, and then Configuration Manager 2012 SP1 can be used to provide software deployment for cloud devices that are part of your Windows Intune.

Windows 8 RT management uses the user based CAL model.

Technically Windows 8 RT devices will indirectly integrate with Active Directory. It will integrate with Windows Intune, which will integrate with Active Directory, which then allows for integration with System Center.

So far as I know this is accurate, but it will be at least 3 months from now before most of us can actually use the new version of Windows Intune and SCCM 2012 SP1 in production.

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.
Prepare for the whining of people who think think everyone is idiots if you don't have a Nokia Windows Phone.

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

As some real man has said "Some of us DO real WORK"

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

hehe.. Looks like there are some apple disciples here! Apple shown they can't win today. I honestly cannot see a major evolution between iphone 3 and 5

.Neo said,

Good luck with that in Metro.

Windows 8 is Windows 7 with a full-screen start menu. Where exactly is the loss? Or are you Apple thumpers that [s]stupid[/s] confused that you cannot comprehend this?

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

/S ?

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

Says who???

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

Bread and milk also outsell computers. What's your point?

ingramator said,
Says someone with 7000 posts in Mac discussion topic...

I also happily own the Nokia Lumia 900. Last time I checked it runs a Microsoft operating system.

.Neo said,

Good luck with that in Metro.

Metro is not for content creation. Metro is for content consumption (consumer side); the Desktop (which is nearly identical to Windows 7) is where you produce content and DO work. For the desktop you generally still need a mouse and keyboard even though Office 2013 in Touch Mode is quite usable. Neither Microsoft, nor any professional software company is expecting anyone to get much professional work done in Metro.

So with all the whining about having 2 interfaces and all the hating on Metro, why don't you just wait and see before you lash out? I've been running Windows 8 as my main OS since the day it hit MSDN. Although it gets some getting used to, it generally works great. I barely leave the desktop while at work, and then use a lot of the Metro apps when at home or out and about and just want to check my email, news, or listen to some music (or all of the above). Can you do that with an iPad today even with a keyboard? No. No real Office suite, no real Graphics suite, no Developer tools, generally no productivity tools at all beyond email, notepads and todo lists.

I can do all of that on any Mac, same as you. Except I don't require two completely different interfaces if I can do everything in one. If I want full-screen, Aqua supports that too. I have little motivation to use a graphical suite on an ARM-powered device iPad, Surface or otherwise.

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

I thought the Humpty Dumpty character was as irrelevant as vomiting keynotes on iDays.
Just saying...

StevenJ said,
Windows 8 is Windows 7 with a full-screen start menu. Where exactly is the loss? Or are you Apple thumpers that [s]stupid[/s] confused that you cannot comprehend this?

Do you have a hard time comprehending the desktop in Windows RT does little more than run Microsoft Office? For all other tasks you are in fact "stuck" in Metro making it just as powerful as the iPad. The Surface Pro is more on the level of an ultrabook which run all desktop apps as well, regardless of it being Mac or PC.

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

Toasters are outselling computers! Toasters are obliviously more popular. Traditional computers will bow down to their toaster overlords.

.Neo said,
I can do all of that on any Mac, same as you. Except I don't require two completely different interfaces if I can do everything in one. If I want full-screen, Aqua supports that too. I have little motivation to use a graphical suite on an ARM-powered device iPad, Surface or otherwise.

Wow, equating the new full-screen technology in OS X, that has existed in Windows since the 1990s as being equal to what the Modern/Metro UI adds is beyond insane.

.Neo said,

Do you have a hard time comprehending the desktop in Windows RT does little more than run Microsoft Office? For all other tasks you are in fact "stuck" in Metro making it just as powerful as the iPad. The Surface Pro is more on the level of an ultrabook which run all desktop apps as well, regardless of it being Mac or PC.

'Stuck' in Metro is what you don't understand.

Even if application requirements are for Apps to have a Metro/Touch Friendly UI, this does not mean that all the 'old' technology is thrown away. (Which in your analogy of the iPad would be necessary to be even close to reality.)

Metro and the iPad are a LONG LONG way from each other, and we are not just talking about the UI or basic Apps.

On Windows RT, Adobe can use their existing Adobe Illustrator code, add a Metro UI, and be approved by Microsoft and run in Metro on Windows RT.

An iPad could NEVER run a full port of the Illustrator code.

This is also true of game designers, they can take their existing engines, and code and even their entire game client, and add a Metro friendly UI to it, compile it for ARM, and bingo it runs on Windows RT.

Again, NOT SOMETHING you can do on the iPad, which is why you won't see even OS X games running on an iPad, but you will start to see Windows desktop games and Apps running on Windows RT.

There is a massive technical difference between the iPad which is a bastardized and separately designed kernel subset of OS X. WindowsRT is the same NT kernel and same Windows frameworks, no reduced functionality. So Metro requirements or not, Applications can run whatever they need, as long as it is presented in a UI that is Metro and TOUCH friendly. (Windows 7 is the most advanced touch OS in history, but there are FEW Applications that use the technology. Windows RT, and the WinRT push is how Microsoft is MAKING developers notice and pay attention to touch and use it, in additional to traditional input technologies.)

Like the Video I posted a few times of the Unreal Engine 3 running on Windows RT. It is a "Metro/Modern" App, yet is running the FULL port of the Windows desktop Unreal Engine and using DirectX. Other than being recompiled and optimized for ARM, it is the same engine and features that you would find in the full UE3 running on Windows 7 or the XBox 360.

In contrast, the Unreal Engine 3 on iPad is a 'mobile' version due to limitations in iOS and limitations in OpenGL ES. (Just as the Android version is also a limited 'mobile' version.)

So comparing a full OS to the iPad and using the UI as your argument is really missing the point of the underlying technology and features of the OS.

Windows RT can multi-task 64 cores as well as Windows 8 desktop, it can handle DirectX and Win32 code and all the lower level NT features and has the same driver model and features as well. IT IS THE SAME OS.

The iPad is more like WinCE, in that it does not have the functionality or features of the full OS X kernel, nor can it support more advanced features or technology.

On the other hand - Windows Phone 8, WindowsRT, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012 are all fully NT with all the functionality of the FULL NT kernel and all of the Windows technologies.

(If Apple could get the full OS X kernel to run on a low powered device like the iPad, they WOULD HAVE, as they have been trying since the iPad was conceived.)

Obry said,

Metro is not for content creation. Metro is for content consumption (consumer side); the Desktop (which is nearly identical to Windows 7) is where you produce content and DO work.

Surface and other Windows tablets will have stylus input, which means I expect a lot of cool Metro apps oriented around content creation too. (Unlike iPad).

thenetavenger said,

Wow, equating the new full-screen technology in OS X, that has existed in Windows since the 1990s as being equal to what the Modern/Metro UI adds is beyond insane.

When folks are seeking to criticize Windows 8's Modern UI, I think most of them really mean WindowsRT or the WinRT API that runs on Windows 8 and WindowsRT, conveniently forgetting that Windows 8, as opposed to WindowsRT, still includes the same Win32 API as Windows 7, and still runs Win32 applications - there IS a difference between the two; and it's all about the supported APIs. The reason that neither has a Start menu - quite aside from the Start menu itself being both broken and unable to cope with the WinRT API or touch - is entirely about reducing the transition curve between similar devices. (Are all you going to say that you have never - as in ever - wanted a purely content-consumptive app on your desktop PC?) There has always been a transition curve between a transition curve between WinCE-based devices and Win32 API hardware - which has decidedly been an Achilles' heel for WinCE devices (and especially Windows Mobile). The transition is less between iOS and the APIs in OS X; however, there still is a transition curve. The transition curve is far less between Windows Phone 7.x and the WinRT API, and practically nil between WindowsRT and Windows 8. Right now, WindowsRT (and the WinRT API) is all about content consumption - however, that's mostly due to the API being so new that any apps are all in the 1.0 (if that) category - the same was true of even Win32 in the beginning, and that was *despite* Windows NT. Between convertibles (running 8 or RT), you CAN expect some lighter content-creation applications (as opposed to apps) to appear for the WinRT API within the next year, with more the following year. The jury is out on that front, therefore, declaring the API dead for content creation is decidedly premature. (Light content-creation applications are appearing for Android; why wouldn't such also appear for WinRT?)

.Neo said,

I also happily own the Nokia Lumia 900. Last time I checked it runs a Microsoft operating system.

Yeah can that phone upgrade to windows 8?

thenetavenger said,

'Stuck' in Metro is what you don't understand.

Even if application requirements are for Apps to have a Metro/Touch Friendly UI, this does not mean that all the 'old' technology is thrown away. (Which in your analogy of the iPad would be necessary to be even close to reality.)

Metro and the iPad are a LONG LONG way from each other, and we are not just talking about the UI or basic Apps.

On Windows RT, Adobe can use their existing Adobe Illustrator code, add a Metro UI, and be approved by Microsoft and run in Metro on Windows RT.

An iPad could NEVER run a full port of the Illustrator code.

This is also true of game designers, they can take their existing engines, and code and even their entire game client, and add a Metro friendly UI to it, compile it for ARM, and bingo it runs on Windows RT.

Again, NOT SOMETHING you can do on the iPad, which is why you won't see even OS X games running on an iPad, but you will start to see Windows desktop games and Apps running on Windows RT.

There is a massive technical difference between the iPad which is a bastardized and separately designed kernel subset of OS X. WindowsRT is the same NT kernel and same Windows frameworks, no reduced functionality. So Metro requirements or not, Applications can run whatever they need, as long as it is presented in a UI that is Metro and TOUCH friendly. (Windows 7 is the most advanced touch OS in history, but there are FEW Applications that use the technology. Windows RT, and the WinRT push is how Microsoft is MAKING developers notice and pay attention to touch and use it, in additional to traditional input technologies.)

Like the Video I posted a few times of the Unreal Engine 3 running on Windows RT. It is a "Metro/Modern" App, yet is running the FULL port of the Windows desktop Unreal Engine and using DirectX. Other than being recompiled and optimized for ARM, it is the same engine and features that you would find in the full UE3 running on Windows 7 or the XBox 360.

In contrast, the Unreal Engine 3 on iPad is a 'mobile' version due to limitations in iOS and limitations in OpenGL ES. (Just as the Android version is also a limited 'mobile' version.)

So comparing a full OS to the iPad and using the UI as your argument is really missing the point of the underlying technology and features of the OS.

Windows RT can multi-task 64 cores as well as Windows 8 desktop, it can handle DirectX and Win32 code and all the lower level NT features and has the same driver model and features as well. IT IS THE SAME OS.

The iPad is more like WinCE, in that it does not have the functionality or features of the full OS X kernel, nor can it support more advanced features or technology.

On the other hand - Windows Phone 8, WindowsRT, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012 are all fully NT with all the functionality of the FULL NT kernel and all of the Windows technologies.

(If Apple could get the full OS X kernel to run on a low powered device like the iPad, they WOULD HAVE, as they have been trying since the iPad was conceived.)


+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
in a nutshell

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.

Let's see during the last full calendar year...

PCs Sold - 414.6M sold minus 63.2 (I'm going to assume every tablet sold is iOS) (http://www.smartplanet.com/blo...than-pcs-sold-in-2011/21828)

iPhones Sold - 99.66M (http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-s...he-numbers-samsung-v-apple/)

iOS Devices - 99.66M + 63.2M = 162.86M
PCs - 414.6 - 63.2 = 351.4M

So yeah, get your facts straight.

Kuruption said,

Let's see during the last full calendar year...

PCs Sold - 414.6M sold minus 63.2 (I'm going to assume every tablet sold is iOS) (http://www.smartplanet.com/blo...than-pcs-sold-in-2011/21828)

iPhones Sold - 99.66M (http://gigaom.com/apple/2011-s...he-numbers-samsung-v-apple/)

iOS Devices - 99.66M + 63.2M = 162.86M
PCs - 414.6 - 63.2 = 351.4M

So yeah, get your facts straight.

He's using apple math, where they compare the sales to each pc manufacture... individually.

I think he's /s...

In comparison, my usage goes like this: Desktop > iPhone > iPad > Laptop, but I'm not phasing out my laptops since I need them on the trips, can't say we're in the Post-PC like Apple said...

MrHumpty said,
This is irrelevant. We are in a Post-PC revolution. iOS devices are outselling computers. Game over. Apple has won.
Dude, you came in to bash. Now it's time to leave..... thank you very much.

Jason Stillion said,

He's using apple math, where they compare the sales to each pc manufacture... individually.

In apple math, 1 iDevice = 2^10 PCs and 1/0 = 1, also they use the universal constant 's' for steve, it means truly innovation, revolution and magic! (Eg. 3gs, 4s)

.Neo said,
I can do all of that on any Mac, same as you. Except I don't require two completely different interfaces if I can do everything in one. If I want full-screen, Aqua supports that too. I have little motivation to use a graphical suite on an ARM-powered device iPad, Surface or otherwise.

Your Mac isn't a Tablet PC. I can do all that on my laptop/desktop/workstation too. What's your point?

I think InTune and Centralized system to manage all Windows PC, Tablets and WP8 can make this combo IT Administrator's primary choice. Not to mention support for Exchange, Lync and awesome Office Suite.

KSib said,
iDay? is that a thing?

It's when all the iJoyBoys clean the "liquid waste" they've deposit on their iDevices off

Even as a Windows gamer, I find your statement really dumb filled with hatred.

trip21 said,

It's when all the iJoyBoys clean the "liquid waste" they've deposit on their iDevices off