Windows 8 design choices explained in new interview

Microsoft made the choice to redesign its upcoming Windows 8 operating system to incorporate touch screens via its tile-themed Metro user interface. In a new interview at Gizmodo, Microsoft's Sam Moreau, the Director of User Experience for Windows, talks more about the kinds of decisions that the company has made to make Windows 8's new UI work.

When asked what was the one thing he was most proud of in the design aspect of Windows 8, Moreau states:

We designed a future model that didn't have to leave the past at the same time. If it was like a blank piece of paper, "go design something," that's an easy challenge. But if somebody gives you, "Here's 25 years of code and built-in patterns and interaction models and everything like that now, and here's this whole stack of future needs and desires and wants for interaction or whatever," and then they said, "Now design the whole thing," that's one of the hardest design challenges there is, right? To pass down the future at the same time and make it cohesive. And I think we did. I think we've made it elegantly, gracefully using the entirety of the PC's legacy and potential at the same time in this design.

When asked what people don't like about Windows 8, Moreau says:

When you change something—this is my own personal observation—a lot of us know how the PC works, become the help desk for all of our friends and family. Inherent in that is a sense that I know. I've got this expertise now, I've got this power. We've changed something now, and leveled the playing field for all those personal help desks, so they're no longer the guy. It's human nature—I had invested in this, I knew this, and some degree of my self was aligned to the fact that I know how this stuff works. I do think that's an aspect of what's going on.

One of the things that Windows 8 will share with previous versions of Windows is the task manager. However, Moreau believes that users of Windows 8 won't actually use it. He states:

You don't have to close stuff—in fact we don't think you need to close anything—but people seem to want to close. It is definitely one where we felt we had to add it, because people want it, not because they need it. None of those things are running. None of them are running. And you could go into task manager and see that nothing is running. You will be able to go in and see that they are all suspended and not taking any battery or doing anything. In RAM. That's all. They're taking up a little bit of RAM, but they're not degrading the system or your battery power, and that's what people think. It's a little more touchable this time. The targets are bigger. The task manager, you shouldn't ever have to use it.

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What everyone has to ask themselves is: Does this "New" OS actually add anything essential to my computing experience? If not, then stick with whatever OS you prefer to get your computing done.
Microsoft *has* to keep evolving their product to ensure future revenues to their company keep flowing. But everyone has the choice to spend cash to use their product or not.
There will always be those who *have to have* the latest & greatest - even if it brings nothing useful to the table except different graphics & gimmicky tech that most home desktop users will never need. (Same argument XP delivered to the masses upon release!). The reasons to update your OS remain the same as when Vista tried replacing XP: Does the newer OS deliver a "Better" desktop experience than the OS it is trying to replace or not? On present evidence, Win 8 offers no significant improvements over Win 7 unless you're planning to replace your mice with a new touch screen monitor.
Personally, that doesn't get me wanting to change from Win7 any time soon. & it's always going to be a personal choice for anyone whether they need this new exercise in marketing & getting you to part with your hard earned readies or not.

If you use something frequently such as Control Panel then you'd be far better off creating a shortcut to it. Clicking Start>Control Panel every single time is just inefficient.

Think of the start screen AS the start menu. You can get to anything you need from there, even the beloved desktop. On your start screen/menu you place all of your programs and apps. You arrange them all in the order that best suits you and you're set. If an app takes you into desktop mode, great! If the app is metro and opens full screen, great! The windows button on your keyboard simply takes you back to your start screen/menu.

If you must have the desktop then you can place all of your icons on the desktop and you'll only ever have to leave it if you wish to make adjustments to settings.

Easy as 3.14.

It really isn't that hard to grasp. I understand that people don't like change but some people aren't even giving it a chance.

laserfloyd said,
If you use something frequently such as Control Panel then you'd be far better off creating a shortcut to it. Clicking Start>Control Panel every single time is just inefficient.

Think of the start screen AS the start menu. You can get to anything you need from there, even the beloved desktop. On your start screen/menu you place all of your programs and apps. You arrange them all in the order that best suits you and you're set. If an app takes you into desktop mode, great! If the app is metro and opens full screen, great! The windows button on your keyboard simply takes you back to your start screen/menu.

If you must have the desktop then you can place all of your icons on the desktop and you'll only ever have to leave it if you wish to make adjustments to settings.

Easy as 3.14.

It really isn't that hard to grasp. I understand that people don't like change but some people aren't even giving it a chance.

Don't get me wrong i will install it as Virtual OS just to play around it. I don't understand complete transition of mind set from Metro to Desktop and from Desktop to Metro. Do people even realize how those two are completely odd, coming from completely different designs. Metro wasn't needed to have a good interface. Desktop itself is so unexplored and unused. I do not understand big tiles, big fonts everything enlarged like i had magnifier on my screen.

laserfloyd said,
If you use something frequently such as Control Panel then you'd be far better off creating a shortcut to it. Clicking Start>Control Panel every single time is just inefficient.

Think of the start screen AS the start menu. You can get to anything you need from there, even the beloved desktop. On your start screen/menu you place all of your programs and apps. You arrange them all in the order that best suits you and you're set. If an app takes you into desktop mode, great! If the app is metro and opens full screen, great! The windows button on your keyboard simply takes you back to your start screen/menu.

If you must have the desktop then you can place all of your icons on the desktop and you'll only ever have to leave it if you wish to make adjustments to settings.

Easy as 3.14.

It really isn't that hard to grasp. I understand that people don't like change but some people aren't even giving it a chance.

This is exactly it.
If you don't like Metro, you can get around it like laserfloyd said.
You only might see the Metro start screen when you want to search for something or when you want to start an app.

If you do like Metro you get all this plus so much more. People can't seem to wrap there head around metro because there are just no useful apps available yet.

And for those people looking to shut down windows, you all call yourself powerusers but cant press alt+F4????

It is interesting that they wanted to kill Task Manager. It is same as with Windows Phone where you have no idea what's running draining your battery, sometimes batteries can't last more than 2 hours. It is pretty sad design wise. I cannot believe they would go that far, they are literally destroying Desktop OS.

I own Windows 7 Phone for almost a year now and Metro apps going into suspended mode are draining batteries really bad. In Windows Phone you have no idea what is running and what not. Honestly design is ok because it is only interface which gives you ability to interact with your phone, everything else my God. Apparently they want to apply same thing to Desktop OS by removing Task Manager. This is so scary cause you have no ****ing idea what's running in the background and you could have viruses running as matter of fact. From Security stand point of view this is bad because i don't want to run IE in suspended mode with my online bank account page open.

Task Manager is a place people will spend more than in Metro whole together and yet they would like to remove it. Haha It is pretty laughable and sad.

Edited by techguy77, Feb 7 2012, 2:10pm :

You don't really seem to know too much about Windows Phone... you do know exactly what's running in the background.

1) As soon as a foreground application leaves the screen, it no longer runs. At all. It gets no CPU access. Nada.
2) Any background task associated with the foreground application only gets to last for 15 seconds CPU time every 30 minutes, and they're *all* listed in Settings -> Background tasks.

Nothing else about third party apps is going to drain their battery simply because they can't.

And in regards to your bank account - virtually all bank accounts will log you out after 5-15 minutes of inactivity. Or you could just log out yourself. And they also have NO intention of removing the task manager.

Also, this

techguy77 (Today)
I own Windows 7 Phone for almost a year now...

contradicts with this...

techguy77 (16 September 2011)
There is no really surprise that Windows 7 Phone is complete failure. I bought a phone myself and i returned it cause Metro is absolutely horrible interface. How many other people did the same?

Posted by you, about 6 months ago Please refrain from trolling...

Edited by ~Johnny, Feb 7 2012, 2:18pm :

techguy77 said,
It is interesting that they wanted to kill Task Manager. It is same as with Windows Phone where you have no idea what's running draining your battery, sometimes batteries can't last more than 2 hours. It is pretty sad design wise. I cannot believe they would go that far, they are literally destroying Desktop OS.

I own Windows 7 Phone for almost a year now and Metro apps going into suspended mode are draining batteries really bad. In Windows Phone you have no idea what is running and what not. Honestly design is ok because it is only interface which gives you ability to interact with your phone, everything else my God. Apparently they want to apply same thing to Desktop OS by removing Task Manager. This is so scary cause you have no ****ing idea what's running in the background and you could have viruses running as matter of fact. From Security stand point of view this is bad because i don't want to run IE in suspended mode with my online bank account page open.

Task Manager is a place people will spend more than in Metro whole together and yet they would like to remove it. Haha It is pretty laughable and sad.

Task manager isn't gone. They've detailed the enhancements to task manager in previous posts on the Windows 8 blog. To get rid of it would be absurd. The new task manager is quite robust compared to Win7; and that's just with the W8DP. Can't wait for Beta... anyone got a tablet I can have/borrow.../steal.

~Johnny said,
You don't really seem to know too much about Windows Phone... you do know exactly what's running in the background.

1) As soon as a foreground application leaves the screen, it no longer runs. At all. It gets no CPU access. Nada.
2) Any background task associated with the foreground application only gets to last for 15 seconds CPU time every 30 minutes, and they're *all* listed in Settings -> Background tasks.

Nothing else about third party apps is going to drain their battery simply because they can't.

And in regards to your bank account - virtually all bank accounts will log you out after 5-15 minutes of inactivity. Or you could just log out yourself. And they also have NO intention of removing the task manager.

Also, this


contradicts with this...

Posted by you, about 6 months ago Please refrain from trolling...

I changed my opinion about Metro on Phone, took me 6 months to get used to it. As far as Battery goes, yes you have no idea what's running and what not because you can open an app and switch to something else and there is no clear indication that app you opened before is running which is part of bad design interface. it causes your batteries to drain in 2 hours and sometimes i can run all day if i make sure i close every app in the phone. I own a phone for over a year. Overall bad design but i am saying now it is ok because there is nothing else to be replaced with so i guess it is ok, don't want to bash everything.

laserfloyd said,

Task manager isn't gone. They've detailed the enhancements to task manager in previous posts on the Windows 8 blog. To get rid of it would be absurd. The new task manager is quite robust compared to Win7; and that's just with the W8DP. Can't wait for Beta... anyone got a tablet I can have/borrow.../steal.

I know it is not gone but from an Interview above they are claiming we don't need it and they had idea to remove it.

techguy77 said,
you have no idea what's running and what not because you can open an app and switch to something else and there is no clear indication that app you opened before is running which is part of bad design interface. it causes your batteries to drain in 2 hours .

That's just the point - they're not running. They get ZERO cpu time when you switch to something else. They can't *do* anything - they can't drain anything even if they wanted too. And being loaded in RAM isn't actually a battery drain (the amount of power used by the RAM is largely the same whether it's full or not).

~Johnny said,

That's just the point - they're not running. They get ZERO cpu time when you switch to something else. They can't *do* anything - they can't drain anything even if they wanted too. And being loaded in RAM isn't actually a battery drain (the amount of power used by the RAM is largely the same whether it's full or not).

This is a very old issue that is VERY difficult to communicate to people, and even long-time computer users struggle to wrap their minds around it: the difference between memory and CPU.

Communicating to people that something stored in memory doesn't use up CPU cycles is challenging and perhaps impossible to do unless you can somehow find someone they like and already agree with on other issues to say the same thing to them. I admire your determination; good luck!

maybe I am one of the few here that fully accept what he is saying in the interview, watch the full one if you can. Anyways I think he is right that the future of computing is in touch. Look at what your average day to day consumer uses the computer for. Internet, Email, some form of social networking, and a few apps like Word. Most can do this on a tablet right now. Windows 8 brings those apps front and center and helps hide the rest of the OS which most users won't ever use. That saying desktop computing is not going anywhere, which is why the desktop end of Windows 8 has not had that much of a facelift. Ribbon might take some getting used to, especially since for me the Windows 7 toolbar is so simple and minimal. However watching my parents use it, they always have to turn on the classic menu bar. This is where Ribbon will help them I think. Heck I hardly see them use the start menu anymore except for searching.
And speaking on Windows 7, it was near perfect, and thats the problem. Desktop computing has reached that point I think where you really can't add or change the OS that much anymore. All you can do is improve whats there. Heck Apple is going to run into this boat with the next version of OS X. Microsoft is at least bringing some of the new immersive stuff into the desktop. If Microsoft had left the Windows 7 desktop alone and just added the Metro Start page, then you really would be left with just an app addon for Windows 7.

So for those thinking that Microsoft is taking the wrong direction, which direction do you think they should have gone and what impact would that make on the next version of Windows?

Forgive me... but am I missing something with the whole Metro argument thing?

To my understanding isn't it simply a visual layer (designed for touch) over the top of the Windows we all have come to know. (Just like opening WMC or Zune still plays your music just differently to WMP)?

Isn't it an additional feature? if so surely it removes nothing?

Surely once you have booted your PC and clicked out of it, you have no reason to return, nor are you forced to do so?

Isn't it just an extra feature - which doesn't take anything away from the OS, doesn't need turning off, doesn't need removing and doesn't need all this moaning? Just like there is no need to remove or turn off IE, WMP, WMC etc. you don't have to use them and they don't negatively effect your PC.

My friend doesn't complain his flat has a spare room that he doesn't use, nor does he desire to remove it. It's just there at the side, being quite, but having lots of possibilities.

Forgive me if I have missed something.

It is for the most part just an extra feature. Obviously, the start menu is always going to be Metro - but even then you can unpin every single Metro app and just fill it up with normal applications.

You have missed something: the Start menu is gone. It was replaced by a touch-centric screen that can't be touched on a regular PC. It's not an additional feature; it's replacing something that was intrinsically part of the shell UI. OK, if it's simply a visual layer designed for touch, why am I forced to use it if I don't have touch, and probably never will? From that standpoint, it's not like IE or WMP or Media Center; those you can just not launch or you can use other solutions that are more to your liking. This isn't like that; it's part of the shell now. Start Menu doesn't exist, you now have a big tablet touch screen in its place. Nevermind that you don't have a use for it. No, the menu you used to use is gone. And no closing apps. Want to shut down or sleep your computer? Then you must go on a sacred quest to find out how. This is the ridiculousness, and where all the moaning is coming from.

devHead said,
You have missed something: the Start menu is gone. It was replaced by a touch-centric screen that can't be touched on a regular PC. It's not an additional feature; it's replacing something that was intrinsically part of the shell UI. OK, if it's simply a visual layer designed for touch, why am I forced to use it if I don't have touch, and probably never will? From that standpoint, it's not like IE or WMP or Media Center; those you can just not launch or you can use other solutions that are more to your liking. This isn't like that; it's part of the shell now. Start Menu doesn't exist, you now have a big tablet touch screen in its place. Nevermind that you don't have a use for it. No, the menu you used to use is gone. And no closing apps. Want to shut down or sleep your computer? Then you must go on a sacred quest to find out how. This is the ridiculousness, and where all the moaning is coming from.

You are right about everything. Microsoft is making a huge mistake if they don't fix this weird hybrid OS. Atleast give people the choice to use it. This is also valid for the tablet users out there that do not want to use the legacy-desktop.

I think they made a mistake when looking at their core values. Microsofts biggest selling point in the past was that they made a OS which could be used on everything out there. That's what made it the most used in the world. But in that case, everything was a PC! Now it's not and they will turn their previous sellingpoint into a disaster.

Tablet ARM has absolutley no use for a legacy-desktop. x86 apps won't work, and the legacy-desktop sucks with touch.

Desktop/Laptop has absolutely no use for the Metro interface as it's implented right now. It will only get in the way, and since it's touch orientated it will feel akward and stupid.

Tablet x86 is interesting. Maybe this one will be the only thing where Windows 8 will work. Whith a hybrid laptop/tablet device or something where you actually use the device for both touch and desktop work.

Has the Start Button been officially confirmed gone though from the final OS? I thought it was all just rumor and speculation with no word from Microsoft as of yet.

Some are suggesting that hovering in the corner brings the start button back... others are saying it brings up a metro thumbnail. Either way I've seen no screenshot of either which is unusual.

lt8480 said,
Has the Start Button been officially confirmed gone though from the final OS? I thought it was all just rumor and speculation with no word from Microsoft as of yet.

Some are suggesting that hovering in the corner brings the start button back... others are saying it brings up a metro thumbnail. Either way I've seen no screenshot of either which is unusual.

Screenshot here from the Consumer Preview: http://winunleaked.tk/wp-conte...beta/winverandcoloricon.png

It brings up a semantic thumbnail of your start screen.

I would say that when design changes are made in UIs, I'm always a fan of them. I figure, they've done tons of usability studies and know what users do with their computers, and so implement those changes. In Windows 7, you really see this. But the new Metro UI in Windows 8, is like a paradigm shift. It's not based on usability studies for PC users, but for people who use touch devices. But it's not just an OS for touch devices, it's for desktop and laptop computers that still use mouse and keyboard. This is the problem.

This knucklehead thinks it's because it will be harder to help those I give tech support to? No, it's just a wonky way of working on my computer. Like Dannydeman says, things you take for granted are just gone in Metro Apps because your OS thinks it's running on a smartphone or tablet. Like closing programs, shutting down (or sleeping the computer). You don't do that with phones or tablets, so it's not made that discoverable in Windows 8. Because it's an OS for those form factors first, and for regular PCs second. That's the mistake. It's not that their reinventing some new UI and they realize people are going to sqwauk; it's because they created a UI for a different type of computer and have retrofitted it to work in a normal desktop / laptop environment. That's what's wrong. You can't use this 'We know that many people are just against change and so we expect this, blah, blah blah...' It's not that at all. You've made a UI and slapped it into everything. And it's just out of place on a desktop form factor PC.

No one needs to use Task Manager? What a nutjob? Is that why someone at Microsoft completely revamped it and made it awesome finally? No one needs to close programs? I understand that when a program is 'Suspended' it's using very little resources, but again, this isn't a tablet. You should be able to close programs like you have since time immemorial in Windows and any other OS.

Maybe I'll prove myself wrong; when the CP comes out I'll likely dualboot with it and try it out to the the changes since the DP. But if they've basically kept the same thing, I think I'm going to find it about just as awkward to work with as before. And they've done all of this for whom? A small subsection of people with touch devices?

I think Microsoft made a big mistake with this Metro on a desktop or tablet friendly design.
It is ugly, clumsy, and simple. There is nothing trendy design. It's like turning the clock back to the Stone Age.
Microsoft come back into the match. Apple and Google continues to run on windows 7 success while Microsoft goes back into disrepair, with this completely impossible subway design.
People want more touch delicious 3d icons with light effects that builds on windows 7, just like Apple and Google are doing.

I love change. I like Metro. But if they go all Metro, please focus on the different experiences, keyboard/mouse and touch. Don't combine them into one big OS. It's confusing and frustating to use is my experience with the DPV build. Especially on a laptop without touch.

Fastsearch is frustating, by default it only searches apps when you type. So you need to click manually on "files" to search a file. One extra unneccesary step. Shutdown the PC, also hidden. I couldn't find it, so now I need to log out in the metrointerface by pressing my personalicon, and when that is done, I can shutdown from there. I uderstand that for a tablet, it just goes in standby so the function isn't a big deal. On the PC, it is a big deal.

There are many more small things which I didn't like and seemed like a lot of unneccesary steps and weird UI choices. I believe the OS is great on tablets and is a big step forward. If they manage the battery well, and keep the size slim, it's a iPad killer by definition.

On the desktop, it will never work the way they are heading right now. Desktop touchscreens will not work, no one wants to touch there 24" monitor or their laptop the entire time. A keyboard/mouse are not made for Metro.

Maybe Microsoft needs to rethink the whole desktop experience as they are going with at the moment. Lots of people will be cofused and frustrated when using a normal laptop or desktop.

There is one solution for PC users I can think of if Microsoft doesn't change it. We need something like the Magic Trackpad that Apple uses,. It's the only thing that works


Honestly, I'm all for a better trackpad experience on PCs. I have a brand new Lenovo laptop (considered the definitive laptop for getting crap done), and its trackpad is a joke. PCs come with tiny, restrictive little boxes that our computers cheerfully tell us are multitouch and capable of three finger gestures that, frankly, I can't make my adult hands pull off.

It's as if the concept of roomy, spacious touch input is devastatingly bewildering to vendors. They'll shove multitouch LCDs next to keyboards and come up with crazy touchscreen concepts, but the mouse input? Lost on them. Completely, thoroughly lost, and to be honest, because of that, I think a Macbook will wind up the ONLY non-touchscreen laptop worth using Windows 8 on.

""Here's 25 years of code and built-in patterns and interaction models and everything like that now,"...

That's Microsoft big problem and the core of security holes when Windows 7/8 still use 25 years code copied from Windows 3.1 , 95, NT, 2000....

Microsoft should just cut the ties to previous versions and start fresh .

alexalex said,
""Here's 25 years of code and built-in patterns and interaction models and everything like that now,"...

That's Microsoft big problem and the core of security holes when Windows 7/8 still use 25 years code copied from Windows 3.1 , 95, NT, 2000....

Microsoft should just cut the ties to previous versions and start fresh .


There isn't one single line of code from Windows 3.1 in Windows 7. Our OSes today are built on Windows NT, which was built entirely from scratch simply to LOOK like the existing consumer version of Windows at the time because it was so popular.

NT itself falls back to a kernel that has evolved over time and resembles its 90s form no more than the Linux kernel resembles itself 15 years ago. The notion that Microsoft needs to "throw out" something and start over again is completely and utterly ignorant of any and all facts freely available about Windows.

What - are non-Metro applications suspended as well? Won't this cause a ton of compatibility issues? Or is he just talking Metro apps? Since those will hardly be too relevant for many, especially at launch. I'm a desktop user and Metro apps are not as well suited for this platform, judging by earlier releases at least.

Northgrove said,
What - are non-Metro applications suspended as well? Won't this cause a ton of compatibility issues? Or is he just talking Metro apps? Since those will hardly be too relevant for many, especially at launch. I'm a desktop user and Metro apps are not as well suited for this platform, judging by earlier releases at least.

Nope, only Metro apps are suspended. Normal apps work exactly the same as normal.

Sounds like a clueless guy. Everything done at Microsoft is brilliant except the user experience teams which f**k up the whole product. Bring back the people who designed Windows XP's UX.

xpclient said,
Sounds like a clueless guy. Everything done at Microsoft is brilliant except the user experience teams which f**k up the whole product. Bring back the people who designed Windows XP's UX.

I don't think Microsoft had a UX design team during the XP days. That was back when they sourced out there UI to a design firm I think, or was that just the icon set in XP.

wv@gt said,

I don't think Microsoft had a UX design team during the XP days. That was back when they sourced out there UI to a design firm I think, or was that just the icon set in XP.

Of course they had a UX team. They had one since Windows was created. Where do you think the name "XP" came from?

wv@gt said,

I don't think Microsoft had a UX design team during the XP days. That was back when they sourced out there UI to a design firm I think, or was that just the icon set in XP.

XP's UI was all Microsoft. The icons were created by The Icon Factory.

xpclient said,
Sounds like a clueless guy. Everything done at Microsoft is brilliant except the user experience teams which f**k up the whole product. Bring back the people who designed Windows XP's UX.

Sounds like a very smart guy to be honest. There are a LOT more users out there who would appreciate the Metro apps than those who wouldn't, and all the major OS's are evolving towards similar experiences.

xpclient said,
Sounds like a clueless guy. Everything done at Microsoft is brilliant except the user experience teams which f**k up the whole product. Bring back the people who designed Windows XP's UX.

XP's UX is HORRIBLE compared to the modern UXs of Vista/7/8.

~Johnny said,

Sounds like a very smart guy to be honest. There are a LOT more users out there who would appreciate the Metro apps than those who wouldn't, and all the major OS's are evolving towards similar experiences.

Most existing Windows customers are unhappy with the Metro UI and very concerned that it's going to be forced upon them and they prefer the Aero UI, except a few who like just about anything which MS dishes out. It's a shame MS is copying Apple bit for bit and not doing Windows like it had for years which made it most successful and dominant platform.

Dot Matrix said,

XP's UX is HORRIBLE compared to the modern UXs of Vista/7/8.

That is really subjective. I find Windows 7's UX extremely horrible compared to XP. Let's not draw our swords over that, okay? XP is still the dominant OS in spite of not allowed to be sold for quite some time now

xpclient said,

Most existing Windows customers are unhappy with the Metro UI and very concerned that it's going to be forced upon them and they prefer the Aero UI, except a few who like just about anything which MS dishes out. It's a shame MS is copying Apple bit for bit and not doing Windows like it had for years which made it most successful and dominant platform.

No, most existing customers don't even KNOW about Metro. Only a small subsection of power users are really aware of what it does and what it brings.

Although, to be fair, you think XP's interface is better than 7 or Vista, so I think it's a lost cause debating with you anyway

My experience with the Developer Preview was a bit traumatizing, I hope the consumer preview is better, even though the UI looks a bit messed up with the mix of Aero and Metro

daniel_rh said,
My experience with the Developer Preview was a bit traumatizing, I hope the consumer preview is better, even though the UI looks a bit messed up with the mix of Aero and Metro

The CP can't even be compared to the DP. Which is why it bugs me that folks are passing judgement on Windows 8 from that. It was an alpha build at most, and should in no fashion be used to judge the final product.

I'm pretty sure one of the guys on the Windows team knows more about Windows 8 than any of you, so it's hilarious to see so many people try to claim he is wrong (I'm talking about the facts he stated, not things he said which are subjective)

Callum said,
I'm pretty sure one of the guys on the Windows team knows more about Windows 8 than any of you, so it's hilarious to see so many people try to claim he is wrong (I'm talking about the facts he stated, not things he said which are subjective)

Seems no one on the Windows team knows which direction to go?

scaramonga said,

Seems no one on the Windows team knows which direction to go?


Now that's a new one... Though it can be argued that some may not like the direction they're taking Windows (without even giving it a chance) I don't know that you can really say that Microsoft doesn't have a direction...

scaramonga said,

Seems no one on the Windows team knows which direction to go?

well they are cozy with Nokia, which owns NAVTEQ which powers thier own maps.... so they should be able to get directions from Bing Maps!

I think the new Metro interface will be great for touch devices, but as a desktop user it has no relevance to me and is an extremely poor fit for the way I do my computing. Hopefully there'll be an option to disable the Start Screen and Metro interface so that desktop users can continue to work as normal whilst taking advantage of improvements to the core OS and code. If they do that then I've got no problem with them having dual interfaces, but if they're going to try to force everyone to use a new interface which isn't necessarily right for them then I see no reason to upgrade from Windows 7.

King Lizzle said,
I think the new Metro interface will be great for touch devices, but as a desktop user it has no relevance to me and is an extremely poor fit for the way I do my computing. Hopefully there'll be an option to disable the Start Screen and Metro interface so that desktop users can continue to work as normal whilst taking advantage of improvements to the core OS and code. If they do that then I've got no problem with them having dual interfaces, but if they're going to try to force everyone to use a new interface which isn't necessarily right for them then I see no reason to upgrade from Windows 7.

Totally agree with you on this!

King Lizzle said,
I think the new Metro interface will be great for touch devices, but as a desktop user it has no relevance to me and is an extremely poor fit for the way I do my computing. Hopefully there'll be an option to disable the Start Screen and Metro interface so that desktop users can continue to work as normal whilst taking advantage of improvements to the core OS and code. If they do that then I've got no problem with them having dual interfaces, but if they're going to try to force everyone to use a new interface which isn't necessarily right for them then I see no reason to upgrade from Windows 7.

Very well said! Windows-7 will be living for a very long time, and certainly a further encouragement for XP users to "hang i there."

King Lizzle said,
I think the new Metro interface will be great for touch devices, but as a desktop user it has no relevance to me and is an extremely poor fit for the way I do my computing. Hopefully there'll be an option to disable the Start Screen and Metro interface so that desktop users can continue to work as normal whilst taking advantage of improvements to the core OS and code. If they do that then I've got no problem with them having dual interfaces, but if they're going to try to force everyone to use a new interface which isn't necessarily right for them then I see no reason to upgrade from Windows 7.

100% agree with you man!

TsarNikky said,

Very well said! Windows-7 will be living for a very long time, and certainly a further encouragement for XP users to "hang i there."

In short, you like all those add-ons to the Start menu (none of which started with XP).

You heard me right - every single one of your beloved addons to the Start menu started with either Vista (which a lot of folks here brickbatted) or 7; however, Vista was, in fact, the origin of most of them. (The only addition to the Start menu that premiered with Windows 7 was the Superbar - and even that was an add-on to the XP/Vista default menu - and it came at the cost of the Classic Windows menu.)

How badly have things gotten when, in less than ten years, we've gone from decrying clutter (one of the non-performance-related complaints about Vista was, in fact, how much the menu had grown) to defending clutter (suddenly, it's "Don't you DARE take off those extra items!").

PGHammer said,

In short, you like all those add-ons to the Start menu (none of which started with XP).

You heard me right - every single one of your beloved addons to the Start menu started with either Vista (which a lot of folks here brickbatted) or 7; however, Vista was, in fact, the origin of most of them. (The only addition to the Start menu that premiered with Windows 7 was the Superbar - and even that was an add-on to the XP/Vista default menu - and it came at the cost of the Classic Windows menu.)

How badly have things gotten when, in less than ten years, we've gone from decrying clutter (one of the non-performance-related complaints about Vista was, in fact, how much the menu had grown) to defending clutter (suddenly, it's "Don't you DARE take off those extra items!").

TBH, all the additions to the Vista Start menu, which you decry as "clutter", were actually useful. The Windows Vista/7 Start menu links you to most of Windows's functionalities in a click.

I gotta say I love Metro's look, however it is an enormous step back in usability for keyboard/mouse users; I tried the Developer Preview and just couldn't stand it: when you have to Google how to turn the PC off something is seriously wrong with your design.
My main beef with Metro, however, is that it's a fairly subtle land grab by Microsoft in order to close the relatively open Windows ecosystem and become the sole gatekeeper. Metro apps can only come from the Windows app store and it's fairly clear that standard desktop applications are being made second class citizens.

Why is it that this guy explains NONE of the desktop user scenarios. And never needing the task manager? What kind of crack is this guy smoking? The task manager is a VERY useful tool when it comes to apps hanging etc... And I guarantee you Metro apps will hang on you at some point, so people will be glad to have the task manager, without it you'd be totally screwed.

Chris123NT said,
Why is it that this guy explains NONE of the desktop user scenarios. And never needing the task manager? What kind of crack is this guy smoking? The task manager is a VERY useful tool when it comes to apps hanging etc... And I guarantee you Metro apps will hang on you at some point, so people will be glad to have the task manager, without it you'd be totally screwed.

He is suffering from the "something" that is the air or water at Microsoft--a typical problem when people work in sealed buildings. There is no fresh air coming in to maintain reality.

Chris123NT said,
Why is it that this guy explains NONE of the desktop user scenarios. And never needing the task manager? What kind of crack is this guy smoking? The task manager is a VERY useful tool when it comes to apps hanging etc... And I guarantee you Metro apps will hang on you at some point, so people will be glad to have the task manager, without it you'd be totally screwed.

Chris123NT - do you remember the Windows 2000 Professional UI (which is the same UI that 9x/NT4 started with)? Other than the design language, that is what Immersive is. All those add-ons to the menu that started with Vista (which are mostly additional ways to get at stuff elsewhere - especially Control Panel) have been banished. Why is Start menu clutter a good thing?

PGHammer said,

Chris123NT - do you remember the Windows 2000 Professional UI (which is the same UI that 9x/NT4 started with)? Other than the design language, that is what Immersive is. All those add-ons to the menu that started with Vista (which are mostly additional ways to get at stuff elsewhere - especially Control Panel) have been banished. Why is Start menu clutter a good thing?


I am all for reducing number of clicks to complete a task but in my experience Windows 8 takes more clicks to accomplish the same task as in windows 7. Try getting to the desktop control panel in windows 8, takes twice as many clicks as it did in windows 7. Try shutting your Windows 8 PC down. First you have to figure out where the hell it's hidden, and then you realize it's more clicks than windows 7. How is this an improvement? If they would just simplify it and reduce the number of clicks to do simple things then I really wouldn't have a problem with it.

Chris123NT said,

I am all for reducing number of clicks to complete a task but in my experience Windows 8 takes more clicks to accomplish the same task as in windows 7. Try getting to the desktop control panel in windows 8, takes twice as many clicks as it did in windows 7. Try shutting your Windows 8 PC down. First you have to figure out where the hell it's hidden, and then you realize it's more clicks than windows 7. How is this an improvement? If they would just simplify it and reduce the number of clicks to do simple things then I really wouldn't have a problem with it.

Chris123NT - WinKey+R (Run dialog box) "control" (no quotes of course) - hit Enter.

Zero mouseclicks. (Works in Windows 7, too.) Very old WinKey shortcut that's still there. (In fact, all the WinKey shortcuts that have ben around since the addition of the Windows key are still around.)

PGHammer said,

Chris123NT - WinKey+R (Run dialog box) "control" (no quotes of course) - hit Enter.

Zero mouseclicks. (Works in Windows 7, too.) Very old WinKey shortcut that's still there. (In fact, all the WinKey shortcuts that have ben around since the addition of the Windows key are still around.)
You can shut down *all* of Windows from Task Manager (the same way you could ever since NT4) - you can still restart from there, too (Ctrl-Alt-Del still brings up Task Manager).

TsarNikky said,

He is suffering from the "something" that is the air or water at Microsoft--a typical problem when people work in sealed buildings. There is no fresh air coming in to maintain reality.

or too much starbucks!!!

PGHammer said,

Chris123NT - WinKey+R (Run dialog box) "control" (no quotes of course) - hit Enter.

Zero mouseclicks. (Works in Windows 7, too.) Very old WinKey shortcut that's still there. (In fact, all the WinKey shortcuts that have ben around since the addition of the Windows key are still around.)


Good idea, just use WIN + R for anything as the UI hides all features! Win9 hopefully gets rid of the GUI 'cause we have CMD/PowerShell anyway…

BTW: From the top of your head, what's the command for Suspend-to-Disk?

Chris123NT said,
Try shutting your Windows 8 PC down. First you have to figure out where the hell it's hidden, and then you realize it's more clicks than windows 7. How is this an improvement?
Sad, but true story.

Even if Metro apps do hang - you can just go back into the start menu and relaunch it. Windows only allows one instance of each Metro app to be running at the same time, and will launch it from scratch, closing the other one.

Other than that, Windows will eventually close the "hung" Metro app when it needs the RAM. In a fully Metro environment, there's no need real for the task manager. Obviously it's still a useful tool in the desktop though.

~Johnny said,
Even if Metro apps do hang - you can just go back into the start menu and relaunch it. Windows only allows one instance of each Metro app to be running at the same time, and will launch it from scratch, closing the other one.

I got to a scenario in which even relaunching the app was futile. Task Manager came pretty handful in that occasion.

PGHammer said,

Why is Start menu clutter a good thing?

Though I have nearly all of my frequently used applications pinned to my taskbar In Windows 7, I also like having them pinned right to the start menu as well. Sometimes, its just easier to push the Windows key and see the menu pop up, boom 1 click and I'm already in (if the app has not yet been launched) If you are able to stay organized well, then there is no such thing as 'clutter' ... At least I dont see it that way

Jose_49 said,

I got to a scenario in which even relaunching the app was futile. Task Manager came pretty handful in that occasion.

Good thing it's not finished yet then

Windows 8 is totally touch centric and touch devices are a VERY small minority, I think they've shot themselves in the foot, older users won't understand it and will be frustrated over to Mac. They should have had a touch edition of Windows 8 and had the touch interface as the norm for that edition and an option for the others. Not forced everyone to put up with something which is far more clunky and ineffective than the standard desktop and start menu everyone knows and has become accustomed to. They've made a huge gamble on touch devices becoming the norm, I'm just not sure they will

PsYcHoKiLLa said,
Windows 8 is totally touch centric and touch devices are a VERY small minority, I think they've shot themselves in the foot, older users won't understand it and will be frustrated over to Mac. They should have had a touch edition of Windows 8 and had the touch interface as the norm for that edition and an option for the others. Not forced everyone to put up with something which is far more clunky and ineffective than the standard desktop and start menu everyone knows and has become accustomed to. They've made a huge gamble on touch devices becoming the norm, I'm just not sure they will

Windows 8 is touch-friendly - I'll give it that.

However, we've seen the UI for Windows 8 before - and as the default, no less.

There is one thing different compared to where we've seen the UI before - the Start orb/button is hidden.

The Immersive UI harkens back to the Classic Windows UI - which was the default UI in Windows 2000 and NT4.

Think of Immersive as basically a *reboot* - it's gotten to be the *in thing* with movies and even TV shows - this is the PC equivalent.

And Task Manager comes up the same way in Immersive that it normally does in Windows 7 - Ctrl-Alt-Del (the three-finger salute for all OSes NT) - still brings up Task Manager, and a much-improved Task Manager at that. I recently started a Windows 2000 Professional VM (the first time I had run an NT-based OS as my default was with beta 2 of this particular OS - it was still called NT 5.0 at the time) which boots by default in the same UI that had been the NT default since NT4 adopted the 9x UI. Compare the Windows 2000 Professional UI, with the XP and later UIs (both with and without the "Classic Windows" menu, which was an option in both XP and Vista, but was gone with Windows 7). Tell me what's missing compared to Windows 2000 or even Luna (XP's default UI) tag-teamed with the Windows Classic menu). I can tell you exactly what's missing - all those add-ons that appear in the menu (starting with Vista, and continuing on with 7).

The menu has been actually de-cluttered (yay!). It's gone back to the minimalist roots of the pre-XP days.

PGHammer said,

Think of Immersive as basically a *reboot* - it's gotten to be the *in thing* with movies and even TV shows - this is the PC equivalent.

I hate reboots…

PGHammer said,

And Task Manager comes up the same way in Immersive that it normally does in Windows 7 - Ctrl-Alt-Del (the three-finger salute for all OSes NT) - still brings up Task Manager, and a much-improved Task Manager at that.

?? CTRL + ALT + DELETE never brings up task manager! It brings up GINA, you're searching for CTRL + SHIFT + ESC.

PGHammer said,

Tell me what's missing compared to Windows 2000 or even Luna (XP's default UI) tag-teamed with the Windows Classic menu). I can tell you exactly what's missing - all those add-ons that appear in the menu (starting with Vista, and continuing on with 7).

The start orb, the start menu,…

PGHammer said,

The menu has been actually de-cluttered (yay!). It's gone back to the minimalist roots of the pre-XP days.

In this instance minimalism leads to decreased productivity, but hey I guess that's what they were going for…

"You don't have to close stuff" ... Not all of us have core i7 processors, 32GB of RAM, and a GTX 5xx GPU. An increasing number of processes, threads, and handles WILL bog down your system, especially on older hardware. Then consider apps like instant messengers, email checkers, web browsers, etc. which continue to run in the background using data or wifi which kills the battery.

There are privacy and security concerns as well. Closing your web browser will log you out of many websites, especially banks. My web browser has LastPass, and simply closing the browser logs me out. The same applies to instant messengers, email clients, remote access (SSH), FTP clients, etc.

Closing apps can also disable functionality or resolve conflicts as needed. I have a hot key program, and the simplest way to disable all hot keys is to close the program. I have separate audio and video players which both attempt to assign the media keys on my keyboard. Some apps may try to open the same ports or open the same files. I have two programs, one which disables the touchpad on my laptop, another which prevents the computer or monitor from going to sleep, and the easiest way to disable the functionality is to close the programs.

It'll be up to developers to implement this functionality into their programs. This means a great deal of inconsistency in how each developer does this, or they'll simply neglect to add it period.

Plain ignorance, simply put.

Xinok said,
"You don't have to close stuff" ... Not all of us have core i7 processors, 32GB of RAM, and a GTX 5xx GPU. An increasing number of processes, threads, and handles WILL bog down your system, especially on older hardware. Then consider apps like instant messengers, email checkers, web browsers, etc. which continue to run in the background using data or wifi which kills the battery.

There are privacy and security concerns as well. Closing your web browser will log you out of many websites, especially banks. My web browser has LastPass, and simply closing the browser logs me out. The same applies to instant messengers, email clients, remote access (SSH), FTP clients, etc.

Closing apps can also disable functionality or resolve conflicts as needed. I have a hot key program, and the simplest way to disable all hot keys is to close the program. I have separate audio and video players which both attempt to assign the media keys on my keyboard. Some apps may try to open the same ports or open the same files. I have two programs, one which disables the touchpad on my laptop, another which prevents the computer or monitor from going to sleep, and the easiest way to disable the functionality is to close the programs.

It'll be up to developers to implement this functionality into their programs. This means a great deal of inconsistency in how each developer does this, or they'll simply neglect to add it period.

Plain ignorance, simply put.

Windows 7 put frequently loaded apps in memory. It literally use 95% of your memory, even if you have 8 gb. If you have less ressource, it will use less. Their isn't any big difference between "cache frequently used apps accordingly to system ressource" and "let apps you frequently use open accordingly to system ressource". And yet nobody complain about Windows 7 memory management.

Philippe Pomerleau said,

Windows 7 put frequently loaded apps in memory. It literally use 95% of your memory, even if you have 8 gb. If you have less ressource, it will use less. Their isn't any big difference between "cache frequently used apps accordingly to system ressource" and "let apps you frequently use open accordingly to system ressource". And yet nobody complain about Windows 7 memory management.


You don't understand the difference between running programs and the file cache. Windows 7 caches frequently used FILES in unused memory. Once full, the cache does nothing until a program accesses the hard disk, in which case Windows first checks to see if the file is cached in RAM. That's a big difference from programs which run continuously in the background wasting CPU cycles.

Xinok said,

That's a big difference from programs which run continuously in the background wasting CPU cycles.

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you. If you knew anything about Metro apps on Windows 8, you would know that they don't run in the background. That's what they're trying to tell you. They aren't running continuously in the background. They are, however, still loaded in memory, waiting for you to switch back to that task. If you're still unhappy, press Alt-F4. That will close it.

rfirth said,

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you. If you knew anything about Metro apps on Windows 8, you would know that they don't run in the background. That's what they're trying to tell you. They aren't running continuously in the background. They are, however, still loaded in memory, waiting for you to switch back to that task. If you're still unhappy, press Alt-F4. That will close it.

Plus, if you actually run out of memory while you have a bunch of apps in memory, windows will simply page that stuff or simply end the app process all together when and as needed.

Xinok said,
Plain ignorance, simply put.

Yes - uh, he's talking about Metro applications here. They get suspended when they're not on screen, so they don't run. And Windows automatically "fully" closes them it starts to run low on RAM.

Joshie said,
They can do all the reasoning and research and even come up with numbers showing 95% of users like the new design style, but there will still be someone within five posts of this one who went out of their way to come to this thread JUST to say they don't like Metro and will stick with Windows 7.

They might not even bother reading the article first.

God forbid someone has their own opinions and expresses them, just like you . . .

farmeunit said,

God forbid someone has their own opinions and expresses them, just like you . . .


You...completely missed the point of my post. Congratulations.

Why is it so hard for them to understand that I really DO NEED to close my personal Facebook page BEFORE I hand my Tablet over to someone that needs to look Google something on Bing? It's not that hard.

jimmyfal said,
Why is it so hard for them to understand that I really DO NEED to close my personal Facebook page BEFORE I hand my Tablet over to someone that needs to look Google something on Bing? It's not that hard.

you hand your devices over to strangers?

jimmyfal said,
Why is it so hard for them to understand that I really DO NEED to close my personal Facebook page BEFORE I hand my Tablet over to someone that needs to look Google something on Bing? It's not that hard.

Never heard of disconnect button ? You have to do it with Windows 7 too anyway. Pretty much worthless complaining.

jimmyfal said,
Why is it so hard for them to understand that I really DO NEED to close my personal Facebook page BEFORE I hand my Tablet over to someone that needs to look Google something on Bing? It's not that hard.

Um... So log out? What am I missing? Lol

jimmyfal said,
Why is it so hard for them to understand that I really DO NEED to close my personal Facebook page BEFORE I hand my Tablet over to someone that needs to look Google something on Bing? It's not that hard.

"Google something on Bing"

My friend, you should sell that to Microsoft - would make a wicked marketing slogan...

Shiranui said,

"Google something on Bing"

My friend, you should sell that to Microsoft - would make a wicked marketing slogan...

I knew someone would pick up on that, I just wish I hadn't blown the delivery. That is the only way for Bing to make it into an every day conversation.

And to the other guys, no I don't hand my devices over to strangers, but I hand them to friends all the time, and I don't want to log out of Facebook and then log back in every time I hand it over to a friend who would naturally swipe to my Facebook page and post a status message for me.

jimmyfal said,
Why is it so hard for them to understand that I really DO NEED to close my personal Facebook page BEFORE I hand my Tablet over to someone that needs to look Google something on Bing? It's not that hard.

why would one need to Google for Bing?

jimmyfal said,

I knew someone would pick up on that, I just wish I hadn't blown the delivery. That is the only way for Bing to make it into an every day conversation.

And to the other guys, no I don't hand my devices over to strangers, but I hand them to friends all the time, and I don't want to log out of Facebook and then log back in every time I hand it over to a friend who would naturally swipe to my Facebook page and post a status message for me.

If you are still logged in your friend can naturally open your internet browser then swipe to your Facebook page and post a status message about you. Closing your browser does nothing if you have it set to keep you logged in.

jimmyfal said,

I knew someone would pick up on that, I just wish I hadn't blown the delivery. That is the only way for Bing to make it into an every day conversation.

And to the other guys, no I don't hand my devices over to strangers, but I hand them to friends all the time, and I don't want to log out of Facebook and then log back in every time I hand it over to a friend who would naturally swipe to my Facebook page and post a status message for me.

But they can still open facebook with you still logged in and post "I'm a herp derp!" and then hand it back to you. Besides, there'll be Facebook apps for this OS. I'd strongly think twice before handing my device to anyone but a close friend or family member.

jimmyfal said,
Why is it so hard for them to understand that I really DO NEED to close my personal Facebook page BEFORE I hand my Tablet over to someone that needs to look Google something on Bing? It's not that hard.

Why is it SO hard for you to realize that you should NEVER use the same login as another user, even if it is their computer, use the Guest login.

Additionally... There has always been a way to close web content and pages, this was never in question. Unless you think you have to open TASK MANGER to close your browser pages?

Geesh...

With Windows 8, you don't even have to us the 'guest' account, you can sign in with your Windows LiveID, on anyone's computer and your information is not stored on their computer, unless you tell it to do so, and you also can see or access their content either.


------
Seriously, people that have a single login that 'all friends and family' just use on Windows is freaking insane.

This is the #1 reason why WinXP messed up NT security, as it allowed users to easily do this, with an administrator level account.

There is no reason to not have separate desktops for each 'frequent' user, and a guest account that purges crap for people that may never use the computer again.

You can 'switch' users easily, without closing out your work or interrupting what you are doing.

Windows also 'works' better this way, as it can lower memory priority on the logged out user, to page out RAM to the HD if needed. Windows also handles the LiveID and the 'profile' information of saved password and personalized content so much better when each person has their own account.

See with your own account, you can leave yourself 'logged' into facebook in your browser and mail, etc... As it is secure from other users COMPLETELY, and EASIER for you as you don't have to keep retyping various passwords all the time.

Seriously, I blasting you a bit, but consider the advantages of separating what you do from others and then things are easier...

(Even if you and your spouse share a computer, have separate logins, and if there are trust issues, you share your password with your spouse. However, you and your spouse can open THEIR screen and THEIR facebook and Email far easier.)

They can do all the reasoning and research and even come up with numbers showing 95% of users like the new design style, but there will still be someone within five posts of this one who went out of their way to come to this thread JUST to say they don't like Metro and will stick with Windows 7.

They might not even bother reading the article first.

I like Metro on my Windows Phone. It looks pretty cool for a tablet too, but I haven't tried it yet. I'm looking forward to it though!

Joshie said,
They can do all the reasoning and research and even come up with numbers showing 95% of users like the new design style, but there will still be someone within five posts of this one who went out of their way to come to this thread JUST to say they don't like Metro and will stick with Windows 7.

They might not even bother reading the article first.


Yep. It's so ridiculous. Sometimes you have to wonder how these people even find the time... Lol

M_Lyons10 said,

Yep. It's so ridiculous. Sometimes you have to wonder how these people even find the time... Lol

Makes me wonder where MS is getting these numbers from because majority people on NeoWin don't like Metro and if you apply those numbers to larger scale you will get real picture. MS has no clue what they are doing, they did some completely wrong projections and such. I would ask guy above how he explains that XP is still dominant market and what would be selling point for Windows 8. I bet he would have no idea what to say.

techguy77 said,

Makes me wonder where MS is getting these numbers from because majority people on NeoWin don't like Metro and if you apply those numbers to larger scale you will get real picture. MS has no clue what they are doing, they did some completely wrong projections and such. I would ask guy above how he explains that XP is still dominant market and what would be selling point for Windows 8. I bet he would have no idea what to say.

There are a ton of selling points for Windows 7 over XP, we dont know everything yet, but it still has tons of features not available -
Windows to Go
Skydrive
App Sharing - charms
A PC that's a Tablet, Laptop and Home PC all in one
The apps people us now mixed with the apps of yesterday on x86
Its faster
Boots faster
integrates with the cloud
all seamless

Sorry but hating little squares is no reason to not like Windows 8

techguy77 said,

Makes me wonder where MS is getting these numbers from because majority people on NeoWin don't like Metro and if you apply those numbers to larger scale you will get real picture. MS has no clue what they are doing, they did some completely wrong projections and such. I would ask guy above how he explains that XP is still dominant market and what would be selling point for Windows 8. I bet he would have no idea what to say.


Wait.

Wait.

....wait.

You seriously, actually, truly believe that Neowin is an even remotely accurate representation of consumers?

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha~

Joshie said,
They can do all the reasoning and research and even come up with numbers showing 95% of users like the new design style, but there will still be someone within five posts of this one who went out of their way to come to this thread JUST to say they don't like Metro and will stick with Windows 7.

They might not even bother reading the article first.

WP7 having the highest consumer satisfaction rate means nothing, right?

Weird, huh, especially with it forcing the Metro model and methods on users with no 'normal desktop of icons' to resort back to, which Windows 8 will let users do either along side Metro or just never look at Metro and turn it off...

Sadly, goofs that think they are intellectually superior to a team of Microsoft UI Engineers that have been working with these concepts for 15 years, will just turn off Metro on Windows 8 and continue to troll and bitch about it on forums like these.

The 'I know better' crap is tiring, and is a sign of either self esteem issues or a true lack of intellect. Try it, if you like it great, if you don't great too, but stop insisting your 'preference' is fact.

thenetavenger said,

WP7 having the highest consumer satisfaction rate means nothing, right?

Weird, huh, especially with it forcing the Metro model and methods on users with no 'normal desktop of icons' to resort back to, which Windows 8 will let users do either along side Metro or just never look at Metro and turn it off...

Sadly, goofs that think they are intellectually superior to a team of Microsoft UI Engineers that have been working with these concepts for 15 years, will just turn off Metro on Windows 8 and continue to troll and bitch about it on forums like these.

The 'I know better' crap is tiring, and is a sign of either self esteem issues or a true lack of intellect. Try it, if you like it great, if you don't great too, but stop insisting your 'preference' is fact.

I might be mixing up versions, but I swear I remember a few hackers over at XDA talking about how the 'old' Windows CE desktop is still hiding somewhere in WP7 and they were able to bring it up. It struck me as neato from a purely technical standpoint, though utterly useless. It made a few people think WP7 was just a 'layer' and therefore bloaty.

Really, 9/10 times people talk about bloat, they betray their poor understanding of how memory works.

/it is worth mentioning that, though much of MS's OS team is made up of long-time employees, it also has lots of newbies for whom Windows 8 is likely their first project at Microsoft--or perhaps even since graduating

//it should also be noted that this isn't a criticism or a sign of quality to come, as many of the greatest OSes ever written were worked on by fresh meat

techguy77 said,

Makes me wonder where MS is getting these numbers from because majority people on NeoWin don't like Metro and if you apply those numbers to larger scale you will get real picture. MS has no clue what they are doing, they did some completely wrong projections and such. I would ask guy above how he explains that XP is still dominant market and what would be selling point for Windows 8. I bet he would have no idea what to say.

You're exactly one of those guys the first poster talked about. I'm getting fed up of seeing your uninformed, crap posts on this site lol.

A lot of businesses, like the one I work for, have spent years developing certain applications that use old versions of XP and as these systems still do fundamentally what these companies need, they are still kept in use. This is understandable seeing as many systems would need re-writes if migration to Windows 7 or Windows 8 were to occur...which would cost money and use resources better deployed elsewhere - this goes some way to answering your question about XP being "dominant".

Btw, spelling is "Neowin" not " NeoWin" lol.

Edited by L1520, Feb 7 2012, 8:37pm :

WP7 said,

You're exactly one of those guys the first poster talked about. I'm getting fed up of seeing your uninformed, crap posts on this site lol.

A lot of businesses, like the one I work for, have spent years developing certain applications that use old versions of XP and as these systems still do fundamentally what these companies need, they are still kept in use. This is understandable seeing as many systems would need re-writes if migration to Windows 7 or Windows 8 were to occur...which would cost money and use resources better deployed elsewhere - this goes some way to answering your question about XP being "dominant".

Btw, spelling is "Neowin" not " NeoWin" lol.

Businesses struggle with the cost of upgrading the systems. It doesn't help that computing paradigms haven't really changed much in 20 years. Touch/motion/voice are all too often gimmicky, but they're the best shot we've got at seeing a shift in how we use computers on a fundamental level, and that shift the best chance at hitting the next big evolution in how businesses implement technology.

Just look at smartphones. Businesses are siphoning money into equipping employees with the damn things while desktops and laptops are painfully outdated. Windows 8 is actually an interesting attempt at cracking this problem by doing more to unify the smartphone/PC connection than any other OS available today. I question its hopes when Windows Phone has yet to win much market share, but the FORMULA is right.