Windows 8 sales are still [insert your own negative word here]

Call Windows 8 what you like, many people have. But one word always seems to come up tops when describing the sales of Microsoft's latest desktop OS; disappointing.

Now, the New York Times has taken another step to fuel the fire of negativity, adding “shaky” and “tepid” to the list. And it's not just the NYT that is saying times are tough for Windows 8. Emmanuel Fromont, President of Acer America has said:

It's a slow start, there's no question.

Fromont was joined by Asus CFO David Chang, saying:

Demand for Windows 8 is not that good right now.

We recently reported that Microsoft is aware of sales being less than stellar, but Microsoft being who they are refused to comment on speculation. And that's all it is right now, speculation. While the 40 million license sold headline will be quoted until the next quarterly figures are released, Microsoft is sitting on top of that locked chest, with the actual numbers in it, until they feel it's right to say exactly how many copies of the OS they've shifted.

NPD, who provide market research for anything from toys to shoes, has had their say on Windows 8. NPD analyst Stephen Baker said:

I think everybody would have hoped for a better start.

Slow isn't bad though. There are two reasons why Windows 8 might not be selling well:

  1. PC sales are on the decline, with tablet sales on the increase
  2. Windows 8 is a very new experience from a user interface perspective

Well it's not Microsoft's fault all the consumer wanted, when they walked into the store, was a tablet. Nor should they be expected to convince a consumer to purchase a (likely) more expensive device just because of the OS it runs. If it were $25, yeah sure, but $125 or more? Not likely. Yes, the Surface exists, but being the newest tablet to market, coupled with poor distribution, sales aren't as high as they could be. PC sales have been on the decline, even since the Windows 7 days, and we all know how well it was received. Was this Microsoft's doing back then too?

The UI is a solid reason people might be put off. They might not like what they see, and the Modern UI Start Screen might be too much of a move away from their existing Windows experience.

But is it right to brand Windows 8 a success or failure? How about a third option, where Microsoft learn from their mistakes - a-la ME and Vista - and release a more refined and proper hybrid OS capable of being run on any type of PC, laptop or tablet. Could this be Microsoft's endgame. Windows 8 could be the learning curve that Vista was to 7 and ME was to XP.

But when all is said and done, Windows 8 is not even two calendar months old yet, therefore it's too early to say things aren't looking good for Microsoft and the OS.

Source: NYT via Business Insider | Image via Microsoft

Report a problem with article
Previous Story

It's huge! Huawei exec shows off 6.1 inch Android smartphone

Next Story

Windows Phone design head reveals plans for Windows Phone 8 are 3 years old

154 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

i love windows 8, and i love my windows phone 8. they compliment each other very well. and I love the fact that i can play on my phone and get xbox achievements

Bought Windows 8, installed it, left it for about a week, went back to 7. At least on my computer, 7 runs so much smoother than 8 does. Steam would crash after every use on Windows 8, and the load times for applications was a lot longer. I liked the Metro interface, but I prefer performance over UI.

Well Windows 8 is actually an improvement in security, stability, and performance (just to name a few). I would test your memory if I were you to see if it's faulty or not because based on my multiple experiences with Windows 8 the performances has always been great and in some ways better than 7. It's even been tested too As for Steam, I would look into that more, but don't blame it all on Windows 8.

http://www.techspot.com/review/561-windows8-vs-windows7/
http://www.examiner.com/articl...dows-7-performance-shootout
http://arstechnica.com/informa...ing-windows-8s-performance/
http://www.tomshardware.com/re...ing-performance,3331-3.html

Almost every customer I've talk to about Windows 8 (without them having ever used it) including my sister asked if it worked without a touch screen.

As slow as XP's adoption was...except for Windows 95, Windows has always had slow adoption...in this day and age, we want everything instant...instant results! Let's be patient.

As far as me personally, I mostly like Windows 8. I've get to really integrate the Start Screen since there honestly not a whole lot of powerful apps for it yet. I pretty much work from the desktop. And I am a Surface owner which relies on the Windows store and while I don't believe you have to have "apps", I really want to see some killer aps for RT.

Why can't people face the truth and accept it and be done with it? The matter of fact is that, Windows 8 is a fail. It's nothing new for Windows, it happened in the past and we got over it. So, do us all a favor fanboys accept it and be done with it along with others.

P.S Windows 8 did not fail because of Start menu but because of how everything (Metro/Modern) has been implemented and integrated. Windows 8 touch-- that's what it should have been named since everything was geared towards touch-user-friendly.

The problem with this is that you're wrong. It's not a fail, in fact, it's quite the opposite. Unless, you think an OS that's far more secure, stable, and faster is a fail.

There's a big difference between the Surface and the Tablet PC. The Tablet PC only offered one UX, and that was the desktop experience. Using a desktop OS only on a tablet is not the right thing to do and Microsoft realized that. That's why with Windows 8 you get two UX's. You get everything with the Desktop and everything with the mobile experience.

How is the way that the Modern UI being implemented a fail...?

You've failed to realize that Windows 8 can run perfectly fine on a tablet, laptop (touchscreen or non-touchscreen) or a touchscreen all-in-one PC. Because Windows 8 works great on multiple devices you could easily manage it with your fingers or your keyboard/mouse.

dtourond said,

You've failed to realize that Windows 8 can run perfectly fine on a tablet, laptop (touchscreen or non-touchscreen) or a touchscreen all-in-one PC. Because Windows 8 works great on multiple devices you could easily manage it with your fingers or your keyboard/mouse.

What you in turn fail to realise is the distinction between "fine" and "good". If I took a chainsaw and hacked off one of your arms, you could still go through day to day life "perfectly fine", but your quality of life would still be inferior.

Windows 8 is you in OS form with one arm and one stump, it works - but it doesn't work anywhere near as well as it could.

This is what happens when you try and create a UI for disparate interface paradigms, and then stir the pot by not cleanly segregating the parts that are more singularly focused.

Athernar said,
What you in turn fail to realise is the distinction between "fine" and "good". If I took a chainsaw and hacked off one of your arms, you could still go through day to day life "perfectly fine", but your quality of life would still be inferior.

Windows 8 is you in OS form with one arm and one stump, it works - but it doesn't work anywhere near as well as it could.

This is what happens when you try and create a UI for disparate interface paradigms, and then stir the pot by not cleanly segregating the parts that are more singularly focused.

If you hacked off one of my arms I wouldn't be able to go on "perfectly fine". Yes, I would most likely survive but I'd need a lot of help and time to adapt to managing my life without my arms...

Windows 8 is an OS that let's you make full use of the mobile experience and also let's users make full use of the Desktop experience.

It's not just a UI; it's apart of the entire OS. The Modern UI is apart of what makes up the mobile side of Windows 8.

dtourond said,
If you hacked off one of my arms I wouldn't be able to go on "perfectly fine". Yes, I would most likely survive but I'd need a lot of help and time to adapt to managing my life without my arms...

Windows 8 is an OS that let's you make full use of the mobile experience and also let's users make full use of the Desktop experience.

It's not just a UI; it's apart of the entire OS. The Modern UI is apart of what makes up the mobile side of Windows 8.

When did "one of" become both? Not only have you managed to warp the analogy, but you've completely missed the point.

Do you really think anyone is trying to claim that Windows 8 outright doesn't function? No. The complaints are due to the inferior implementation, and replacement of UIs with more touch-centric ones for zero gain on the traditional desktop.

Some people are.

How is it inferior? There's two UX's in this OS. One that is mobile, and one that is the Desktop..? A real response would be nice...

dtourond said,
Some people are.

How is it inferior? There's two UX's in this OS. One that is mobile, and one that is the Desktop..? A real response would be nice...

Try reading my post, I just explained how it's inferior. The OS forces you to use touch-oriented UIs in place of dedicated desktop UI.

Athernar said,
Try reading my post, I just explained how it's inferior. The OS forces you to use touch-oriented UIs in place of dedicated desktop UI.
I agree, it does impact the way the user interacts with Windows but it's been 17 years since Windows made a big change and if the change makes it better, why not do it. When Windows 95 was released people went crazy in a good way and a bad way but as time went on people grew to love the changes and since these new changes enhance the overall UX people will grow to love it in the future. It'll take time but people who are truly dedicated to Windows will take 10 minutes to learn how to navigate it.

dtourond said,
I agree, it does impact the way the user interacts with Windows but it's been 17 years since Windows made a big change and if the change makes it better, why not do it. When Windows 95 was released people went crazy in a good way and a bad way but as time went on people grew to love the changes and since these new changes enhance the overall UX people will grow to love it in the future. It'll take time but people who are truly dedicated to Windows will take 10 minutes to learn how to navigate it.

Except in this case, the change is bad for desktop users. The start screen has nothing new to offer how than Metro apps which are little more than gimmicks outside of tablet devices. Not only that, but the existing functionality the start screen replaces in many cases takes more actions to complete, plus the fact it takes up the entire screen needlessly.

Here's a challenge for you, while watching a youtube video on the desktop, launch an desktop app with the start screen without interrupting/obstructing the video.

Athernar said,
Except in this case, the change is bad for desktop users. The start screen has nothing new to offer how than Metro apps which are little more than gimmicks outside of tablet devices. Not only that, but the existing functionality the start screen replaces in many cases takes more actions to complete, plus the fact it takes up the entire screen needlessly.
How is the change bad for users, explain to me that... The Start Screen actually has several new things to offer such as (1) better ways of managing programs; (2) better ways of organizing all your programs and (3) better ways of searching for your apps. On the Start Screen, I can pin AS MANY apps as I want. In the start menu I can only pin as much as my screen resolution will allow me, which leaves me with a limited amount of apps allowed. The Modern interface does provide better ways to organize, manage and search for apps, settings and other files better than the Start Menu.

To shutdown Windows via start Menu (windows 7): (1) Click on Start orb > (2) click shutdown. In Windows 8: (1) Press Win+I > (2) Click/tap Power > (3) Click/tap Shutdown.

Oh, but one more step is just too much to handle, right? If it's really that hard for you to do one more step then just create a shortcut on the Desktop and type "shutdown /s /t 0" in the field and then voila, you have your own shutdown shortcut..

"plus the fact it takes up the entire screen needlessly" Windows 8 is a hybrid OS, of course they're going to emphasize on both the Mobile UX and the Desktop UX. Complaining that it has a mobile optimized UI (like it should) is rather stupid. That's like me complaining that iOS has a mobile UI or that Android has a mobile UI.

Here's a challenge for you, while watching a youtube video on the desktop, launch an desktop app with the start screen without interrupting/obstructing the video.
Well, first of all that's a stupid thing to do, and secondly, I could just pause the video. That's what it's there for..

dtourond said,
(1) better ways of managing programs;

Nope.

dtourond said,
(2) better ways of organizing all your programs and

Nope.

dtourond said,
(3) better ways of searching for your apps. On the Start Screen, I can pin AS MANY apps as I want. In the start menu I can only pin as much as my screen resolution will allow me, which leaves me with a limited amount of apps allowed. The Modern interface does provide better ways to organize, manage and search for apps, settings and other files better than the Start Menu.

Pointless features to have when you have search. Start key, Type string, enter. No UI needed.

dtourond said,

To shutdown Windows via start Menu (windows 7): (1) Click on Start orb > (2) click shutdown. In Windows 8: (1) Press Win+I > (2) Click/tap Power > (3) Click/tap Shutdown.

Oh, but one more step is just too much to handle, right? If it's really that hard for you to do one more step then just create a shortcut on the Desktop and type "shutdown /s /t 0" in the field and then voila, you have your own shutdown shortcut..

Or they could just stop making the OS worse.

dtourond said,
"plus the fact it takes up the entire screen needlessly" Windows 8 is a hybrid OS, of course they're going to emphasize on both the Mobile UX and the Desktop UX. Complaining that it has a mobile optimized UI (like it should) is rather stupid. That's like me complaining that iOS has a mobile UI or that Android has a mobile UI.

Except iOS and Android aren't desktop PC operating systems, don't sell by majority to desktop PCs, and don't have a 20+ year history on the desktop PC.

dtourond said,

Well, first of all that's a stupid thing to do, and secondly, I could just pause the video. That's what it's there for..

No, it's a perfectly sensible thing to do - provided you don't have brain damage and can multitask. You know, the entire point of having a desktop PC in the first place instead of a phone or tablet device. You just think it's "stupid" because the shoddy OS you're using is utterly incapable of doing so.

Edited by Athernar, Dec 29 2012, 7:22am :

Nope.
Actually it does provide better ways of managing your programs. You can organize all your files into groups, you can name your groups, you can move a group of tiles anywhere on the screen, etc.. Until you can prove me wrong, your argument is invalid

Nope.
Pretty much the same thing applies for organizing your files, which, it does.

Pointless features to have when you have search. Start key, Type string, enter. No UI needed
Why the hell would I want to search for my files every time I want to open it..? The point of pinning something to the Start Screen is to have easy access to it.

That's a pretty bad come-back to this argument, but it's making me laugh so keep going.

Or they could just stop making the OS worse
Another pointless statement that you've failed to prove..

Except iOS and Android aren't desktop PC operating systems, don't sell by majority to desktop PCs, and don't have a 20+ year history on the desktop PC
The point still remains that it's a hybrid OS so it'll include the Desktop UX and the *mobile* UX. Yeah, iOS and Android are mobile OS's but Windows 8 does come with a mobile UX just like iOS and Android.

No, it's a perfectly sensible thing to do
So then why the hell was the pause button invented...

You just think it's "stupid" because the shoddy OS you're using is utterly incapable of doing so.
Logic (something you don't have) would tell me in any situation to press the pause button, duh..

That's just like me playing a YouTube video in iOS and having to open up another app without interrupting the video.. Of course it's going to interrupt it. Any time I play a video and I'm required to do something else that'll take my eyes away from it will interrupt it (*facepalm*).. I wish you could hear how stupid you sound..

dtourond said,
Actually it does provide better ways of managing your programs. You can organize all your files into groups, you can name your groups, you can move a group of tiles anywhere on the screen, etc.. Until you can prove me wrong, your argument is invalid

Nope. Useless feature.

dtourond said,

Pretty much the same thing applies for organizing your files, which, it does.

More useless features.

dtourond said,

Why the hell would I want to search for my files every time I want to open it..? The point of pinning something to the Start Screen is to have easy access to it.

That's a pretty bad come-back to this argument, but it's making me laugh so keep going.

Because search is an infinitely more powerful tool. I realise you must not have been using computers for very long, but there is a reason why desktop PCs have a keyboard.

dtourond said,

Another pointless statement that you've failed to prove..

You proved yourself that accessing the shutdown function is harder, thus worse under Windows 8. So props for bringing up something I hadn't even referenced, then using it to illustrate Windows 8 is an inferior OS, making my job easier.

dtourond said,

The point still remains that it's a hybrid OS so it'll include the Desktop UX and the *mobile* UX. Yeah, iOS and Android are mobile OS's but Windows 8 does come with a mobile UX just like iOS and Android.

Yes, and as I've been saying - Windows 8 sucks for the precise reason they have not properly segregated these disparate UXs. I should not need to explain why a mobile UX is not fit for purpose on a desktop PC, and a desktop UX likewise on a mobile device.

dtourond said,

So then why the hell was the pause button invented...

Logic (something you don't have) would tell me in any situation to press the pause button, duh..

That's just like me playing a YouTube video in iOS and having to open up another app without interrupting the video.. Of course it's going to interrupt it. Any time I play a video and I'm required to do something else that'll take my eyes away from it will interrupt it (*facepalm*).. I wish you could hear how stupid you sound..

Why would I want to pause the video? Is multitasking a completely alien concept to you? Have you ever used a PC before now?

Why on earth would I want to pause the video when I can continue to watch it, while also launching another app in the corner of my screen. I can watch my video, start up my messaging client, and then message friends all on one screen!

I pity you that you are incapable of doing such simple tasks on both a OS and personal level.

Nope. Useless feature.
Unless you can prove me wrong, your argument's invalid..
More useless features.
Well that maybe what YOU think but I'm pretty sure that being able to access all your apps or other files neatly in their own respective groups is a lot better than your half-assed method of searching for it every time.

Because search is an infinitely more powerful tool. I realise you must not have been using computers for very long, but there is a reason why desktop PCs have a keyboard.
If what you say is true, then why did the Start menu have an "All programs" section inside it. If all the user has to do is just search the computer for their files every time they wanna' use it, why even have the start menu. You sound like someone who's stuck in the '80s when people used DOS and had to always move to different folders and remember long file/folder paths..

You proved yourself that accessing the shutdown function is harder, thus worse under Windows 8. So props for bringing up something I hadn't even referenced, then using it to illustrate Windows 8 is an inferior OS, making my job easier.
Oh yeah, because one more step is the end of the world.. And that trick I pointed out about making the shortcut would actually make it easier in Windows 8 but somehow you're blinded to that.

Yes, and as I've been saying - Windows 8 sucks for the precise reason they have not properly segregated these disparate UXs. I should not need to explain why a mobile UX is not fit for purpose on a desktop PC, and a desktop UX likewise on a mobile device.
Well if your brain is that incompetent then you might as well just sell your computer right now. It's more suited for PC's and laptops with touchscreens but it DOES work on the same computers and laptops that don't have a touch screen.

Why would I want to pause the video? Is multitasking a completely alien concept to you? Have you ever used a PC before now?
There's a difference between multitasking that should be self-explanatory to you by now. If I'm watching a video and I have to go somewhere, I would pause it. If I was watching a video and someone was talking I would probably pause the video. The only time where I would be doing other stuff while playing a video is if it just has an audio track and no video, and there are plenty of YouTube videos like that, with just sound and no picture.

Why on earth would I want to pause the video when I can continue to watch it, while also launching another app in the corner of my screen. I can watch my video, start up my messaging client, and then message friends all on one screen!
Well I don't know about you, but a lot of people would find that distracting whether you agree or not...

You think I'm incapable yet I can manage Windows 8 on a laptop without a touchscreen just fine while you can't, and yet you still can't seem to grasp onto the reason why the pause button was invented..

dtourond said,
Unless you can prove me wrong, your argument's invalid..

It's not an argument, it's a fact.

dtourond said,

Well that maybe what YOU think but I'm pretty sure that being able to access all your apps or other files neatly in their own respective groups is a lot better than your half-assed method of searching for it every time.

Then you would be wrong.

dtourond said,

If what you say is true, then why did the Start menu have an "All programs" section inside it. If all the user has to do is just search the computer for their files every time they wanna' use it, why even have the start menu. You sound like someone who's stuck in the '80s when people used DOS and had to always move to different folders and remember long file/folder paths..

Because there was one point in time where Microsoft actually had sense and did not throw away well-established UI at a whim, even though the search function made the rest of the menu redundant.

And honestly, if you think there is any equivalence between navigating directories in a CLI and searching for the application you want rather than fumbling around any form of list, then frankly you are far too ignorant to be discussing such matters.

dtourond said,

Oh yeah, because one more step is the end of the world.. And that trick I pointed out about making the shortcut would actually make it easier in Windows 8 but somehow you're blinded to that.

Or I could just stick to the better OS than doesn't make me have to create shortcuts.

dtourond said,

Well if your brain is that incompetent then you might as well just sell your computer right now. It's more suited for PC's and laptops with touchscreens but it DOES work on the same computers and laptops that don't have a touch screen.

You really are a complete moron. Did I not start my first post making quite clear the distinction between "works" and "good"? Clearly you're not interested in the facts, and only being a fanboy apologist for Microsoft.

dtourond said,

There's a difference between multitasking that should be self-explanatory to you by now. If I'm watching a video and I have to go somewhere, I would pause it. If I was watching a video and someone was talking I would probably pause the video. The only time where I would be doing other stuff while playing a video is if it just has an audio track and no video, and there are plenty of YouTube videos like that, with just sound and no picture.

Well I don't know about you, but a lot of people would find that distracting whether you agree or not...

And here you attempt to cloud this issue with irrelevant points about "going somewhere", stick to the topic.

But I think it's fairly clear at this point you're utterly incapable of multitasking, and are only able to perform one single task at once. You should sell your PC and switch to a tablet.

dtourond said,

You think I'm incapable yet I can manage Windows 8 on a laptop without a touchscreen just fine while you can't, and yet you still can't seem to grasp onto the reason why the pause button was invented..

I don't think you're incapable, I -know- you're incapable.

It's not an argument, it's a fact.
We're arguing over this, hence, this is an argument.

Then you would be wrong.
Not really, but keep thinking that.

Because there was one point in time where Microsoft actually had sense and did not throw away well-established UI at a whim, even though the search function made the rest of the menu redundant.
I guess you don't know Microsoft's history too well, do you. They've had this same UI template for over 17 years now. Were you expecting them to keep it the same forever.. C'mon now, get your head out of the dirt. The world is going mobile. Apple is slowly changing the UI of OS X to match iOS (ex. Notification Screen). In the next couple years, we're going to see more and more mobile elements merging with traditional OS's.

And honestly, if you think there is any equivalence between navigating directories in a CLI and searching for the application you want rather than fumbling around any form of list, then frankly you are far too ignorant to be discussing such matters.
I guess I used too many big words and confused you (silly me).. When someone looks for something in DOS that's called "searching". When you go into the Start Menu or on the Start Screen and you type for the program/file you want, that's called "searching". They're not the exact same thing but it comes down to the same thing, searching... Calling me ignorant makes me laugh when you'd rather search for your stuff instead of making it easier for you..

Or I could just stick to the better OS than that doesn't make me have to create shortcuts.
I knew it! You really can't handle one more step, and you call me incapable And you don't have to create shortcuts in Windows 8. I just mentioned that for you because you don't seem to have the brain capacity to do three things without getting confused..

You really are a complete moron. Did I not start my first post making quite clear the distinction between "works" and "good"? Clearly you're not interested in the facts, and only being a fanboy apologist for Microsoft.
Actually I am all for the facts and if being a fanboy means defending a product I know is good and one that I can back up all my points with then yes, I am a fanboy. Then there's also morons like you who can't see the true potential in products like this and now that it's a little bit different your brain just goes into this panic mode where you don't know what to do and the only thing you can do is go on an article talking about Windows 8 and hate on it acting like you know what you're talking about when really, you don't..

But I think it's fairly clear at this point you're utterly incapable of multitasking, and are only able to perform one single task at once. You should sell your PC and switch to a tablet.
Everything you said there is wrong on every level. I can multitask better than you can, and just because I prefer to do something logical that millions would agree on (LIKE pausing a video) that doesn't mean I can't multitask. And how do you think switching to a tablet would make anything different. If I open up another app It'll take me to that app, therefor my video would be interrupted..

I don't think you're incapable, I -know- you're incapable.
Mhmm, keep talking..

Edited by dtourond, Dec 30 2012, 7:57pm :

Windows 8 is an even bigger joke than Vista was. Funny the W8 fancrowd here has to huddle for support on a Windows-centric site. ANYWHERE else you do the attitude towards W8 is universally negative.

Vista wasn't even a joke for a good reason. Everything from UAC to requiring signed drivers, etc were all required to make the platform infinitely more secure than it's predacessor which was released horribly insecure and was only barely passible once SP2 was released. Microsoft deserved none of the flack it got for Vista. Every time the UAC prompt popped it was because it was either necessary as a security measure or it was because the software was poorly programmed and needless asked for admin privilieges. It's also not microsoft fault if hardware manufacturerers drag their feet on driver development.

Vista was a fail because of the UAC, multiple UI glitches, the fact that it is very resource dependent (making it slow), etc. Windows 8 is none of that and it has quite a few great improvements from Windows 7 which makes it really great.

...Once again a negative Windows 8 article gets jumped on by the haters, already 99 responses... If you scroll down to a article that speaks positive about Windows 8 you'll find that it doesnt get nearly those numbers in weeks.

A real shame that Windows 8 doesnt get a fair chance. People shoot it down for being different. They say they dont know what to do and dont even bother to try. If it wasnt Windows or not by MS at all, people would be willing to explore it like a new OS.

I have to admit I was taken back a bit at first as well but I approached it with an open mind and now I dont want to go back. The desktop feels so static now. Im not just talking about the live tiles but also about the charms. Being able to use search as a way to navigate between apps and switch/launch apps and with the search results opened it just fantastic. It lacks some features but the potential is huge, for the sake of progress alone you shouldnt want to see it fail. You dont have to buy it but it will be interesting to see where it goes.

Agreed. People seem ready to attack it like a wild animal and I don't think some of the people on here who bash it have even tried it yet.

this article acts like tablets and windows 8 are in different markets. If it's really a matter of PC sales slowing and tablets speeding up then Windows 8 still should be doing better since Windows 8 is largely a tablet OS.

The problem is, Windows 8 was made for touch on the tablet and idiots on the desktop (No offense to a power user who actually likes 8 on the desktop). But it's true. Windows 8 on the desktop primarily, was created for people who just browser facebook, read email and surf the web (which is the average user). To them something really could be full screen, because on a PC they really aren't that productive anyway.

The issue is, that they didn't give an actual productive user a choice to turn off the idiot UI. (Once again no offense to any power user who likes the ui).

One example is creating a shortcut for an application on the desktop, because not everyone wants to pin their icons to the start bar or the start menu. On Windows 7 you would search for something in the start menu, right click it choose copy then right click on the desktop and choose paste.

On windows 8 you search for something right click it and the only option you get is to pin to start, or pin to the taskbar. If you want to add a shortcut to the desktop you have to select "Open file location" then copy it from there.

Edited by warwagon, Dec 24 2012, 8:00pm :

They absolutely gave me a choice to turn off metro; I can install any alternative start menu I want. With two clicks on an exe installer, I can replace the entire explorer shell with another shell. Not giving me a choice would be locking down this ability and taking away a third party choices. Saying that there is no choice when there is a choice of more than 30 start menu replacements out there already is completely disingenuous.

ModernMech said,
They absolutely gave me a choice to turn off metro; I can install any alternative start menu I want. With two clicks on an exe installer, I can replace the entire explorer shell with another shell. Not giving me a choice would be locking down this ability and taking away a third party choices. Saying that there is no choice when there is a choice of more than 30 start menu replacements out there already is completely disingenuous.

By choice I meant a way to turn it off from inside the OS without installing 3rd party applications. I assumed that was obvious.

smooth3006 said
I knew 6 months ago w8 was going to flop. I dont know one person who enjoys it. I even went back to w7.
It's actually not a flop. What it is, is a lot more secure, faster, and stable than Windows 7. The start screen is better than the Start Menu in several ways.. I've been using Windows 8 since the first milestone leak.

I don't know about you, but I like something that offers better security right out of the box; a way faster performance followed by a fast bootup & shutdown and two UX's that are both really great.

Call me whatever you want, a fanboy, someone paid by Microsoft, whatever; but I love Windows 8.

Simple solution:
Laptops and desktops can keep using Windnows-7
Tablets can use Windows-8

Microsoft's huge mistake was forcing Windows-8 onto laptop and desktop users. Simply giving users the choice of UI to use on installation would have solved so many problems and eliminated so much heartburn and ill-will. [I guess arrogance and/or ego got in the way.]

Depends though. Maybe (just maybe) users could use 7 on the non-touchscreen laptops, but for the touchscreen laptops Windows 8 does suite it well. Being able to manipulate both UI's all in one OS is just amazing.

aww how cute,all the windows 8 haters come out of the woodwork when theres some negative article or rumor with zero facts to come out. When theres real hard facts, they all disappear.

it just shows how bad you guys are feeling for buying some other product made by another company. its human nature to hate on something that's newer and better than what you have, but its making you guys look embarrassing .

That's exactly what I've been thinking about.. Sometimes I look at some of the hate comments and think "Was that person high when he wrote that?". There's a difference between constructive criticism, and then there's just bashing hate all over and trying to make themselves look good.

Let's be honest, the user interface sucks for air in Windows 8. Plus, you are not getting much of an improvement over Windows 7. Who can throw away good money when you get nothing much in return for your hard earned dollars???

Heard this 1000 times when Windows 7 was released. Complaints about the superbar and grouping open items, complaints about pinning to the taskbar, complaints about the aero theme, complaints about no classic start menu. Most of these posts concluded with something about how Windows 7 is just Vista with a new UI and there was no reason to upgrade.... yet here we are 3 years later and no one wants to move away from Windows 7 and its "perfect" UI.

Actually with Windows 8, if you want to be technical provides several improvements such as:

1) Security
2) Overall performance
3) Better memory/resource efficiency
4) Faster bootup/shutdown times
5) Two UX's

If that's not improvements, then I don't know what is..

I think its crazy, my entire family is using win 8, after some guidance they all love it for different reasons. my dad IS 82 and he loves that he is in Farmville in min's. boot time. my sister loves the social part, and one of my brothers loves the search.
so win 8 is good. if people don't like the start button being gone than download the app!!! come on really? some people don't even try to like it it sounds like

My 77 year old grandfather is a huge computer geek. He called me one day after looking at someone's PC that had Windows 8. His exact words "This thing is a piece of ****." Said it took him about 20 minutes to figure out where things were to get the information he needed. Normally he's pretty quick to upgrade/update to whatever is new.

Or you could take some time and learn about it. Not buying it just because of that, when there's many other great improvements is pretty pathetic; but that's just me.

Or you could just accept that people have a different opinion and don't like having a touch based UI forced upon desktop users that's a huge step back in usability and productivity.

Usually I'm the one that's always upgrading to the latest versions and accepting changes. I loved the ribbon in Office and other programs. What I don't like is Metro.

I do accept others opinions. If people have the right to bash Windows 8, then I have the right to defend it. And from testing it for a year before it's been released I can mention several reasons how it improves usability and and productivity.

This is good news for me, I want the sales to be terrible. (Bear with me a moment)

I built four new machines for myself, my wife and kids for Christmas and purposely purchased Windows 7 for them for a few reasons.

First, I have been using Windows 8 since the initial preview release through RTM and while I had gotten "used to it" on my desktop, but given that I have zero touch enabled hardware, I found it clunky to use. Full screen Modern UI apps (Metro) do not translate well to a 30" screen. Switching between my desktop applications to talk to someone who messaged me on Facebook did not feel integrated but rather "bolted on".

Secondly, my wife had no idea what to do when I set her down in front of it. She is an average user, but still found herself lost when trying to figure things out and almost always went back to her phone to do things like Facebook and email cause they were faster. Granted, she only tried for about a week and I purposely didn't help her.

Finally, I wanted to send a message that I was not happy with the direction they took by not purchasing the latest and greatest. That said, I love the idea behind what they are trying to do, I just feel it was poorly implemented. The desktop is a dying animal, but it is far from its deathbed.

I'm not a hater, just putting my money where my mouth is and honestly feel that for my needs (non-touch enabled desktop/laptop), Windows 7 is still the right choice.

but but but but but.... the average user doesn't have a 30 inch monitor. Actually I totally agree with what you said, I just wanted to give you that average user comment before a pro windows 8 person did.

As I said when it first came out... they should have built it from scratch... Win 8 is a disaster...
I'll pick Win 7 any day over it... hell I'll pick Win XP over it...

Torolol said,
is there any video that shows how large touchsceen (30 inch, minimum) will work with windows 8 ?

I have it on my 55" non touch tv.

lmao

so, I must ditch my:
comfortable chair,
arm+elbow rest,
nice desk

and standing all the way, when working with windows 8 large touchscren heh?

for ergonomical reasons, I guess i'll keep the mice handy.

Sszecret said,
Do you give a presentation sitting down?

but, I am a Gamer.

Obviously its retared to stand up just to play game with BIG screen monitor (be it touch capable or not), except for that Nintedo work-out games ....

Perhaps you never play games with such large monitor before?

To be fair, I'm looking video when you play angry-birds using such large touch-screen monitor.

Wanna creates such video?

Edited by Torolol, Dec 24 2012, 5:05pm :

Ok, I agree with the gaming bit. But IMO, a device the size of that from Perceptive Pixel is good for presentations and whatnot. An all-in-one, with a touchscreen is a good PC for the kitchen / livingroom. Of course, you won't buy them now, you'll buy them when they get cheaper, but still.

Y'know, I've still not seen a single Windows 8 tablet on sale in PC World or similar stores in the UK. What's up with that, manufacturers? You've just missed the Christmas rush and you don't seem to care... at least Lenovo has gotten their Yoga 11 out. But most people seeing that wouldn't even realise what it can do.

I don't know what seems to be the holdup with manufacturers but I agree, they seemed to have missed the Christmas rush and not care at the same time. When I hear about these manufacturers complaining that Windows 8 isn't selling enough as it should it gets me mad because they could of really pushed their own hardware running Windows 8 to as many stores as possible, which would in-turn boost Windows 8 sales.. The point is, instead of OEM's just complaining about it, do something.

More laptops and tablets are being sold in many markets than desktops now. This is a paradigm shift in how things used to be, and Microsoft needed to accommodate to this changing market. They created an OS that works on any device larger than a mobile phone.

Opinion then sets in on if this is the end-all, solution, but I've found it to be almost perfect for my needs on my Samsung Slate 7 Series.

Why people only think from Windows 7 vs Windows 8 perspective on the new UI? People may not just be liking the Metro style design at all, going for the iPad style design with gradient and ooh..shiny factor. Metro style isn't very attractive, a LOT of people I know call it downright ugly and positively repulsive design.

And for developer viewpoint, we (developer) should deal with some problems :
a) Applications are absurdly limited to local resources, it takes an unnecessary effort to access to local resources. However, it is trivial to access resource from Internet. So, most applications will be focused into the "cloud" and "social" stuff and IMHO, a desktop/notebook could do a lot more that to be a web-frontend.
b) It is programmed in XAMP and Javascript. XAMP stink!, it is slow, it is anything but clear (XML mess) and it relies on stacked elements (but at least autocomplete works), so Microsoft promised us "Don't worry, everybody will be able to program in javascript in the same way that they programmed for a website"... well, it is not true, the Javascript that Modern Apps uses is a mess, even XAMP is better.
Then, Metro Apps are neither visually appealing nor functional.

So, What is MS doing?.
Apparently, they are pushing the cross compatibility (Cellphone, tablet and desktop).

Edited by Brony, Dec 24 2012, 12:39pm :

App?? Windows 8 isn't visually appealing or functional. Read again. Metro killed Aero. Remember the comment about MS having no taste at all? Back then, it wasn't true. Today it's true.

Brony said,
And for developer viewpoint, we (developer) should deal with some problems :
a) Applications are absurdly limited to local resources, it takes an unnecessary effort to access to local resources. However, it is trivial to access resource from Internet. So, most applications will be focused into the "cloud" and "social" stuff and IMHO, a desktop/notebook could do a lot more that to be a web-frontend.
b) It is programmed in XAMP and Javascript. XAMP stink!, it is slow, it is anything but clear (XML mess) and it relies on stacked elements (but at least autocomplete works), so Microsoft promised us "Don't worry, everybody will be able to program in javascript in the same way that they programmed for a website"... well, it is not true, the Javascript that Modern Apps uses is a mess, even XAMP is better.
Then, Metro Apps are neither visually appealing nor functional.

So, What is MS doing?.
Apparently, they are pushing the cross compatibility (Cellphone, tablet and desktop).

First off, you are not restricted to Javascript. Yes, you can use Javascript, but also C++, VB, or C#.

Second - Metro apps are neither visually appealing nor functional? That is a matter of opinion. Yes, there are some bad looking apps, but there are many that look very good. And as for functionality, I have found many apps with good functionality.

Third, and the thing that is proving you are talking out of your a**, it is not XAMP, it is XAML. Anyone who supposedly knows enough about it to claim that the language is bad, would know that the language is named XAML, and would not repeat XAMP three times. They would also know that you do not use XAML (or for you, XAMP) with Javascript, you use HTML to generate your UI.

So in other words, you read something on the Internet that the programming model is horrible, and so you are repeating it because you need to show how you know everything. But as someone who has written iOS and Android apps that were being sold at one time or another, the programming model is far better for Win8 than either of those other platforms.

MsftGaurav said
App?? Windows 8 isn't visually appealing or functional. Read again. Metro killed Aero. Remember the comment about MS having no taste at all? Back then, it wasn't true. Today it's true.
I find it very appealing and easy to use. Everything I want is in tiles, If I want something all I have to do is click on the tile. If I want to close a Modern app (not Metro) all I do is click/tap & hold from the top and drag to the bottom, it's that easy. I love how much better the Start Screen is compared to the Start Menu..

Windows 7 = Grease
Windows 8 = Grease 2.

Windows 7 Start Menu = Olivia Newton Jones and John Travolta.
Windows 8 "Metro" or "Modern UI" or "Windows Apps" = The blond guy.

And, based in the logic of some guys, Grease 2 is way better because it is newest, also it is the future and everybody should deal with it.

:-/

Grease? Really? Could of come up with a better film.

Windows 7 = Lord of the Rings
Windows 8 = Harry Potter

Some people just prefer crap.

dtourond said,
So, are you implying that a really secure OS that's really fast, stable and also boots a lot faster is crap..?

Who cares about how fast it boots up? I run Windows 7 on two SSD's and it's fast as hell!

Not everyone has an SSD... And with the high cost for an SSD many people are still using hard drives. 80$ for a 1TB external hard drive, or 80$ for a 64GB SSD..

And boot time is very important for some people. When I wake up in the morning I don't want to have to wait 2 minutes for Windows to boot. I like the idea of it booting in 10 seconds or less.

As time goes on more people will love the Edsel and the amount of people who hate it will go down. I know this because the same thing happened when the Model T came out.

I'm not a usability expert but if MS had:

a) Given PC users a choice at install time between traditional desktop experience or modern UI with the former defaulting to the desktop
b) Kept the start button in the desktop version

I'm pretty sure adoption would have gone a lot smoother. Yes, there are lots of people who will likely run W8 on both desktop, phone and tablet and they'd organically migrate to the modern UI. But there are still even more people who only care about the desktop experience. Just saying... The only reason they didn't IMHO is the Windows Store which somehow became the most vital part of Windows...

If they kept the old Start Menu how would you open Metro apps?

Having a Start Menu and a Start Screen would be VERY confusing.

As time goes on more people will love Windows 8 and the amount of people who hate it will go down. I know this because the same thing happened when Windows 95 came out. There were changes. Some people liked it, some people absolutely hated it, but over time people have grown to love those changes. History will repeat itself.

Unless Microsoft suddenly acknowledges all the issues, W9 will be what W7 was to Vista. W8 has some good ideas, but a lot of flaws as well (at least for the majority of users). It'll be worked out over the coming year(s). Arguing how much you personally like it, doesn't fix it for all the others. It simply needs to be refined and allow more user GUI manipulation. Microsoft force fed this onto people because their market share allowed them to. Compared to what's available and what we already have W8 is meh, RT is less than meh, Surface is meh...Nothing compelling to make a PC buyer WANT w8 or w7, nothing compelling to make a tablet buyer WANT RT over Ipad for software, price or performance...Xbox started slow, but eventually got there, let's hope other things don't take as long.

Windows 8 isn't a flop to an extent because stores have to get old stock out to make for new ones so the current amount of windows 8 on display will always be lower.

Something to point out slow starts don't mean its a bad thing people are just more careful upgrading on windows based pcs then say a mac this is due to the fact the mac os is still stable and uses the same ui as always with minor changes over a gradual amount of time.

Then again, the reason why Apple's own computers and laptops don't sell as much as Windows based PC's and laptops is because Apple chooses to run OS X on their own hardware and because their prices are considerably higher than Windows PC's and laptops some people have chosen to use Windows instead. Lastly, because you can run Windows on many different computers people seem to like that more.

Windows hasn't had much of a UI change since '95. The main elements have stayed the same over the years with minor tweaks here & there. OS X hasn't had many changes either. Most of them were just little cosmetic changes but nothing really drastic.

And in other news, Google TV and Chrome OS are failures to, also the Nexus is. Let's not ignore all the projects Google is destroying in their portfolio.

Anyway, let me try: "Windows 8 sales are still awesome"

Wait, that's not negative? But it is a rumor, so, "awesome" is also a possibility. Right? And maybe more than something negative, I mean, 4 million in the first weekend, 40 million in the first month, that's not bad. How many times was OS X sold, how many Linux-users are their in this world? I think they are somewhere around the 100 million and 30 million respectively.

Chrome OS was full screen apps in a browser, the people did not want it even for free then Google changed it a lot and implemented a Windowing UI, and they are now implementing a new Offline Apps framework 2.0 that will be ready in a few month.
Full screen apps + UI limitations = stupidity, something that Microsoft should have learned from.

I've only seen one person using Windows 8 (on their own PC) since it's been released. No sign of a Surface either. On the contrary, I see lots of iPads and Android tablets everyday.

Microsoft have done a very poor job with advertising the Surface here in Australia - the majority of ("normal", non-technical) people haven't heard of it. iPad dominates tablet advertising - everyone knows what an iPad is.

Also, the fact that the Pro Upgrade is the only (Windows 8) version available in stores makes it less appealing to consumers. Where's the Home Premium/Standard Upgrade? For some reason, I have to wait until February 2013 for the other versions to become available (I was told by the sales assistant). I can't purchase a full version of Windows 8, while Windows 7 (full, not upgrade) is in the shelf above - why?! Windows 95 wasn't still available for retail after Windows 98 was released. I guess you can probably buy and download an ISO for the other (upgrade) versions, but they really should be available in stores too (in the case one doesn't want to download a hefty 4.7GB image!).

There's already other Windows 8 tablets (that do the same thing as the Surface Pro) released in stores. You can purchase Windows 8 Pro either online (I think) or by DVD in the store. I don't know if it's because you live in Australia, but in Canada I saw Windows 8 Pro on the shelf.

Don't trust everything the sales assistance say, they're not as in the loop as they may seem.

Except for Windows 8 Pro, there aren't that much Windows 8 versions, only Windows 8 and Pro are available for consumer (and Pro is just Windows 8 with video codecs), Windows 8 Pro is actually the repleacement for Windows 7 Home Premium, since it is probably the most sold version of it (Windows 8 too, but you can upgrade that one free with the key on windows.com). Anyway, then there is an Enterprise version and ofcourse RT. That covers it.

68k said,
snipped

I see the same thing every day when I catch the train and walking to Uni in the city. NO ONE uses Surface, and certainly no one has it on their laptops.
Windows 8 in general definitely flopped here in Sydney at least.

Y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶u̶r̶f̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶l̶a̶p̶t̶o̶p̶ ̶(̶*̶f̶a̶c̶e̶p̶a̶l̶m̶*̶)̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶A̶n̶d̶ ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶t̶t̶y̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶n̶t̶i̶r̶e̶ ̶p̶o̶p̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶S̶y̶d̶n̶e̶y̶ ̶(̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶4̶ ̶m̶i̶l̶l̶i̶o̶n̶)̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶a̶p̶t̶o̶p̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶a̶b̶l̶e̶t̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶W̶i̶n̶d̶o̶w̶s̶ ̶8̶,̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶ ̶n̶o̶b̶o̶d̶y̶'̶s̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶L̶e̶t̶s̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶

Anarkii said
I see the same thing every day when I catch the train and walking to Uni in the city. NO ONE uses Surface, and certainly no one has it on their laptops.
Windows 8 in general definitely flopped here in Sydney at least.

You can't run the Surface on your laptop (*facepalm*)... And I'm pretty sure that the entire population of Sydney (over 4 million) aren't going to all be on one train so just because you haven't seen anyone using a laptop or tablet running Windows 8, doesn't mean nobody's using it... Lets get real here.

I've seen one Surface at my college. The girl loved it, but wished she had known a Pro version was coming out after I told her about it, so she could run desktop apps.

I knew one friend from an organization and he has an Asus RT tablet and loves it too.

I also knew one Comp Sci guy that installed it on his laptop. The natural science & mathematics college and the technology college (which I'm in) gets Microsoft stuff for free. I just haven't done it b/c I'm not for or against Windows 8, but fine with 7.

It all depends where you look.

Thing is, MS made a pretty good OS with Windows 7, so I guess people hesitate to switch over.
As for the Metro - Start Menu, it isn't that bad, and you can always use one of the well working 3rth party menu's.
Plus that it is much faster to start using keyboard shortcuts and type what you want to run instead of looking trough a menu to find the icon.

At this point, with all the perceived negative press I think it would be suicide for MS to raise the price as planned in January. Keep the price low, take the hit and hope it encourages people to change.

Can we have articles saying the Google TV and Chromebook are a flop every week too? It's only fair!

Also, Google sell around 1 million Nexus 7's per month. That makes it a flop too?

Edited by Ace, Dec 24 2012, 9:26am :

The difference between Google TV/Chromebook and Windows 8 is that Windows 8 is actually selling. Hence, all the people who are invested for whatever reason against Windows 8 need to spin its sales in some negative fashion.

As always, Windows 8 needs a little work. It's still a good option when upgrading too. You
can get it for under $20. It's still Microsoft's cheaper upgrade in years.

Metro should not have been forced on you, especially people who are going to use it on a desktop. They should have given an option to toggle between start menu and metro.

Why don't Microsoft research about how many people want the Start menu back (and want to dump Metro), and actually take action on that? Instead on doing waste-of-time research on what screen areas people have their mouse cursor positioned in the most, over time?

Answer: because they're now playing by Apple's rules. They can't listen to feedback, because if they do, they won't be able to "think different".

The customer is NOT always right - sometimes you have to ignore them.

If Microsoft listened to the vocal minority, we would still be running Windows XP until at least 2113! It's ridiculous!

Ignoring your customers? That IS a risky business decision.
Look at who are your customers. If you ignore a majority of them, hardly good business practice. Look at other companies who did just that--NCR, IBM, XEROX, AT&T, GM, etc.

Windows 8 is probably worth to get if you live in the US but outside of US the App Store is just crap for example sweden they post the same apps all over to pretend they got content LOL

athlonforce said,
Windows 8 is probably worth to get if you live in the US but outside of US the App Store is just crap for example sweden they post the same apps all over to pretend they got content LOL

I'm from Malaysia but switched the region to US so I can download better apps/games from Windows Store

You too should use US store instead of Sweden

athlonforce said,
Windows 8 is probably worth to get if you live in the US but outside of US the App Store is just crap for example sweden they post the same apps all over to pretend they got content LOL

The "outside the US" label applies to more countries than just Sweden you know. Don't be applying sweeping statements like that which have absolutely no basis in fact.

The app store is perfectly fine here in the UK.

it's weird. first i really hated the metro UI and now I think I like it (on a touch screen device). The reason for it is that I've learned how to work on it . I still would rather have Win 7 on my gaming laptop though.

it's always fun to see that haters have time and energy to hate even some time after the Win8 debute - it's Christmas kids, go and ask for Start Menu or a flux capacitor to live in the past, ho-ho-ho :-)

Say what you want, Windows 8 is by far the best Windows ever

I already ditched a lot of legacy software in favor of cooler and useful Metro apps

Cant wait for VLC Metro for Windows 8...the UI mockup and incoming features looks very promising and interesting...

You already stopped using the traditional apps? the one that are in Windows, with richer interface, can do more, and put them side by side? in favor of full screen apps, limited UI? and you brag about it? don't you see it a bit stupid? no you don't

john.smith_2084 said,
You already stopped using the traditional apps? the one that are in Windows, with richer interface, can do more, and put them side by side? in favor of full screen apps, limited UI? and you brag about it? don't you see it a bit stupid? no you don't

I"m not ditching desktop software completely, as I"m using office 2013 on daily basis...Photoshop CS6, Windows Live Writer and many more

For metro apps, I used rss reader app, tunein for radio, twitter app, one note, task reminder, youtube RT and many more

I"ve no need for bloated software such as foxit reader, youtube downloader, google reader, skype etc

if u are a power user, multitasking metro apps, snap with desktop software is very easy

instead of hating, you should give it a try

Can you list a single app that you've actually ditched for a Windows Store alternative (and a better one at that)? Even their top app in the Windows Store, Skype, is leaps and bounds better using the classic Desktop version than their Modern UI one. Other apps that I've used on the desktop that I can list are Evernote and Mircosoft's own OneNote 2013 - both cases the Modern UI alternatives don't even come close to the traditional desktop versions. Granted desktop version of Evernote might not be the touch friendliest but OneNote 2013 desktop has touch mode so it almost makes you wonder why bother with the Modern UI version of OneNote (big fail in my opinion)

easy fix, dump metro and put the start button back on the desktop.

We're not interested in a whole new primitive interface so Microsoft can make money selling apps.

I don't know.. The start screen has proven to be better at:

- organizing files (ex. grouping files, naming groups, etc.)
- searching files (ex. being able to sort through files, apps and settings)
- Customization (ex. background style, making app tiles smaller/bigger, enabling/disabling the live-tile feature)

One of my biggest pet peeves about the Start Menu was that I couldn't pin all my favorite programs. Now I can pin as many as I want in the Start Screen.

TRC said,
Saying Windows 7 is inferior is your opinion.

No, it's a fact. Putting aside the marmite relationship with Metro (which you can avoid if you possess half a braincell) and the lack of a start button (which again you can add back if your IQ goes into double digits or above), every other aspect of the OS is superior to Windows 7. That isn't opinion.

You are not interested, and you are not everybody.

And here you are again on this shtick that it is only about making money by selling apps. You said I only like Win8 because I must be making money off of apps. You have no idea why I may or may not like Win8, and you will not make claims that speak for me.

Not surprised at all. I've been using Windows since v2 on my 286, 16bit computer (MS DOS before that) and in my opinion win 8 is the worst UX they've done in 20 years. The core OS is amazing however the modern UI and apps are complete failure (even on a tablet). Modern UI only works on phones and possibly smaller tablets but everything larger than that it is simply wasting space. Furthermore hiding most chrome is a terrible idea as well.

I have always hated any apps that modify the stock UI but with Win 8 for the first time in my professional experience I ended up buying such app - Start. This is what desktop experience should have been. Modern crap and workstations don't go together. Hell, I dont even want a Surface anymore. Buying an Android tablet (and I've been a Windows fan boy all my life). As far as I'm concerned they failed the professional market. Slowly the techies are going to start recommending other solutions. I know I've been preaching against Windows 8 to all my friends and after playing with a Surface, even more strongly.

FoxieFoxie said,
LOL no, start button sucks, waste of space

wow, a tiny icon is waste of space? and yet something that uses giant useless squares takes up entire screen, and its still inferior unable to display everyting you need is ok?

TCLN Ryster said,

No, it's a fact. Putting aside the marmite relationship with Metro (which you can avoid if you possess half a braincell) and the lack of a start button (which again you can add back if your IQ goes into double digits or above), every other aspect of the OS is superior to Windows 7. That isn't opinion.


You can't get more fanboy than this.
Bravo!

TRC said
Saying Windows 7 is inferior is your opinion.
Opinions are just thoughts on something. This is not something that I just "think" is better, it's something that I know is better because I've seen the statistics, facts and other kinds of proof that show why Windows 8 is better than Windows 7.

Edited by dtourond, Dec 25 2012, 1:42am :

nekrosoft13 said,
wow, a tiny icon is waste of space? and yet something that uses giant useless squares takes up entire screen, and its still inferior unable to display everyting you need is ok?
Those "giant useless squares" are called tiles. Those tiles can be made bigger or smaller. Would you rather use the start menu on a tablet or a touch-friendly UI. It seems to me that it'd be harder to navigate the start menu with your fingers.

Obry said
Not surprised at all. I've been using Windows since v2 on my 286, 16bit computer (MS DOS before that) and in my opinion win 8 is the worst UX they've done in 20 years....
Actually the Modern UI is great because (most importantly) on a tablet, you get the best of both experiences without having to bring a laptop and a tablet. You get something that's all in one. I strongly believe that being able to use mobile apps and being able to switch to the classic experience is a great thing. I don't have to put down the tablet and pull out a laptop because everything I need is all in one device. The gestures are great too. Being able to swipe down an app to close it is amazing.

The reason why sales aren't that great right now is because (1) this a big change for Microsoft in 17 years and also because (2) PC sales are on the decline since the interest for tablets and smartphones are on the rise.

Being able to do all your tasks on one device, so seamlessly and simple is a great thing and that's where Microsoft really did score big time.

This'll take time for people to get used to (no doubt about that) but so did Windows 95, and look what happened. People have grown to love the Start Menu, Taskbar and other UI changes.

Hopefully in the new year Apple will be spending more time focusing on innovation instead of picking fights with other companies; because they sure as hell didn't innovate this year, except for the iMac (I'll give them that).

And "normal" people like it too, I had several mates ask me to recommend a selection of W8 laptops. Touch enabled devices are hot, especially the lenovo yoga, HP Spectre etc.

Auzeras said,
And "normal" people like it too, I had several mates ask me to recommend a selection of W8 laptops. Touch enabled devices are hot, especially the lenovo yoga, HP Spectre etc.
My best mate just bought a new pc and specified win 7. He didn't know anything about 8 but he'd heard negative comments about it and shied away. The comments about it being a failure can easily become a self fulfilling prophecy.
Personally I'm using 8 and while it's not perfect, the good outweigh the bad.

What I would like to know, is how many of those 40 millions (or what ever the next number will be), are those $40 or $15 update.

Also how many of those license were sold but never used.

I have a flyer that was print in October that advertise 3 laptops model with Windows 7. When I received them late november, they had Windows 8 sticker on them. The Lenovo still had Windows 7 pre-installed in them. Does that count as a Windows 8 license sold. I guess so. The Asus and Toshiba had Windows 8. I had to wipe them and put Windows 7 in them because of my flyer. Then I put a bookmarks on the desktop for customers who would want to upgrade Win 8 for $15. That will count for 2 licenses of Windows 8 sold. Most of my customers who will upgrade, will more then likely revert back to Win 7 because they won't like the Win 8 experience, I'm sure. I had to do it for a dozen customers already. So that 2 licenses, each, sold but not used.

I have 1 desktop, 1 all-in-one (hp 20"), and one Acer laptop with touchscreen setup in the store to show whoever want to know about Win 8. I can certainly show to customers the so-called "metro" part of Win 8 is only useful if you have a touchscreen. Nobody is impressed.

I also have a beautiful Thinkpad tablet with Win 8, but the dang thing retail for $800. In the meantime the Android Galaxy Tab 2 and Aconia A210 (selling around $350) are flying out the door, I have a hard time restocking.

Just sharing my experience.

How can you possibly compare that Thinkpad tablet and the Android Galaxy Tab 2 and Aconia A210 with a straight face? They aren't even comparable.