Windows 8 tablets are “priced way too high”

With a handful of Surface machines and Windows 8 based tablets & hybrids being shown off before Windows 8’s launch on October 26th, pricing is the one detail that has never really been confirmed by Microsoft, at least for their own branded hardware.

Well an analyst for the IDC, Bob O’Donnell, has come out and publicly stated that he doesn’t like what he’s seeing, so far at least, from PC makers and their Windows 8 product pricings.

The problem is these things are priced way too high. Look at the history of tablet products priced above the iPad. Not pretty.

He does have a point. With two versions of Windows 8 for the tablet, hybrid or Surface products, there has already been a very distinct difference in costs between devices running Windows 8 Pro and Windows RT. Windows RT runs on ARM devices while Windows 8 Pro will run on Intel and AMD devices. Windows RT licensing for OEMs is going to be less than the full feature Pro version.

Lenovo have already revealed the hybrid IdeaPad Yoga 13, with a starting price of $1,099. Acer have the least expensive device, the Iconia W510, starting at $500. But the difference in hardware is there to see. The Yoga houses an Intel Core i CPU where the W510 houses the latest Intel Atom, Clover Trail, CPU. The performance gains between the Atom and the Core CPU’s are evident, but can average Joe user justify paying more than double for the extra performance that the Core will give? Both devices run Windows 8 Pro.

Considering that Windows RT won’t run older Windows applications, outside of Office 2013 and apps from the Marketplace, that has the potential to seriously restrict the sales of any Windows 8 touch device. CNET editor Rich Brown has given his opinion on the situation:

I can't say I'm excited about the Yoga 11. [An Nvidia] Tegra 3 tablet running Windows RT and priced at $799 definitely wouldn't be my first choice...The keyboard attachment is appreciated, but whether it justifies this tablet's very high price remains to be seen. Unfortunately, I think the Lenovo pricing is indicative of where the other guys' pricing is going.

With other OEMs like Dell and HP announcing plans for Windows 8 tablets & hybrids, what of the Microsoft Surface? O’Donnell believes it won’t be priced below the iPad:

I think it's $599 for the RT version of Surface and $999 for the Intel version, when it comes out next year. That seems to be the general consensus in the supply chain. So, the big question is, will it be $599 with the keyboard or $599 without the keyboard?

So, with only a couple of weeks left until the official product launches of Windows 8 and the Microsoft Surface, we don’t have long to wait before the pricing for the Windows 8 hardware and software family become clear.

Source: CNET | Images courtesy of Lenovo and Engadget

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Not sure how it's not comparable:

iPad
Apple A5X dual-core processor, quad-core GPU
9.7" Display
1GB RAM
32GB - $599 + $100 Keyboard + $100 Case = $799


Yoga 11
Nvidia Tegra 3 chip
11.6" Display
2GB of DDR3 RAM
Keyboard
Folds up so no need for a case
32GB = $799

Also comes with Office 2013
Also comes with USB 2.0

I totally agree with him. If it's priced over an iPad, people will just go an buy an iPad, whether it's better or not - that's the general consumer attitude.

When I heard about the Surface, I was interested. After I heard about the ridiculous prices of said device, I was completely uninterested, and so were a number of my friends.

What some people are failing to see is that some of these tablets have the specs of high end ultrabooks. Obviously they'll be priced quite high.

drazgoosh said,
What some people are failing to see is that some of these tablets have the specs of high end ultrabooks. Obviously they'll be priced quite high.

And we all know how well Ultrabooks are selling /s

simplezz said,

And we all know how well Ultrabooks are selling /s

Exactly, and this is where the problem lies. Mainstream consumers aren't flocking to Ultrabooks because they don't want to pay the premium price when they can get something that will make due for half the cost. The manufactures need to get the prices on these down to a level around that of mid-priced laptops.

Its really an unfair comparison to compare these "laptop/tablet convertibles" to a standard tablet. The problem is you can't tell consumers how they are going to view a device. They are going to see them as many of those commenting here do. As over priced tablets. Well they are and they aren't.

Microsoft's marketing needs to be something along the lines of "Microsoft Surface - we pick up where the tablet leaves off!" The emphasis and comparison here needs to be closer to we do what your tablet can't and your laptop won't.

Think of it as a "personal amusement mechanism" and then decide what is a fair price to pay for it. Trying to compare it with full-size laptops and desktops is similar to comparing apples and oranges--both are fruits (they run Windows-8), but that is where the similarity ends.

Hey look, an idiot said something.

Seriously people. A) These are not Android tablets. Which is the only comparison he can make to tablets priced higher than the iPad. Those have been inconsistant pieces of crap. B) This is much more than an iPad even in its RT form. Just going with naitive ports you've already opened yourself up to much more than an iPad. Let alone full office and a full OS underneath that you can access.

Anywho, This guy si nuts. The pricing I've seen has given me many compelling options. What MS prices their surface as will determine if I still get one of those rather than third party.

MrHumpty said,

A) These are not Android tablets. Which is the only comparison he can make to tablets priced higher than the iPad.

Android owns 48% of the tablet market, of course Windows tablets are going to be compared against them.

MrHumpty said,

Those have been inconsistant pieces of crap.

Have you tried a Nexus 7? Clearly not. That thing blows everything else out of the water in terms of bang for buck. Not only that but Jelly Bean is smooth as butter.

MrHumpty said,

B) This is much more than an iPad even in its RT form.

No it's not. I keep hearing this, but I don't see any difference. Touch is no better on the pro x86's desktop than it is on current Windows 7 tablets, and no one's buying them. The Metro UI has little to no apps, so I'd say the iPad and Android tablets are way ahead of the pro and especially the RT versions. These are touch devices remember, so the touch applications are the important thing. If someone wants a desktop, they're better off with a much cheaper and more powerful laptop or desktop PC.

MrHumpty said,

Just going with naitive ports you've already opened yourself up to much more than an iPad.

Yeah and we all know how well current apps run on touch devices with Windows 7 tablets /s. Anything not optimised / rewritten for touch is going to run like dogshit on a tablet. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

All Android / iPad apps are optimised / written for touch, hence, they have and will have for the foreseeable future a significant advantage over Windows 8. That's why Microsoft is trying to foist it on desktop users - to try and force developers to write touch apps.

MrHumpty said,

Let alone full office and a full OS underneath that you can access.

You can get that right now with Windows 7 tablets. But guess what? No one wants them. The desktop mode is horrible to use for touch devices. It's designed to work with a traditional mouse and keyboard, not touch, and it shows.

Some people here seem to be under the illusion that consumers are clamouring for a tablet with a "*full OS" with MS Office. If that were true, why aren't millions of Windows 7 tablets selling? They've been on the market for years, yet no one is buying them in significant numbers.

*full OS: You seem to be confused about what an OS is. Android and the Linux kernel is a full OS. The same kernel that powers my desktop machine and many other PC's. Even iOS is a full OS. It's not as open admittedly, but neither is Windows RT.

MrHumpty said,

Anywho, This guy si nuts. The pricing I've seen has given me many compelling options. What MS prices their surface as will determine if I still get one of those rather than third party.

1. Windows RT tablets are going to be too expensive and uncompetitive, especially given its locked down nature and lack of applications compared with Android and iOS.
2. Atom based Windows 8 tablets are going to be very expensive, have poor performance and battery life just like their netbook relatives.
3. Pro i5 Windows 8 tablets are going to be prohibitively expensive 1-2k. Desktop apps are horrible to use with touch, so the only use is to plug in a mouse / keyboard, but why do that when you can get the same or better performance laptop / PC for a fraction of the price? Furthermore, Android and iOS also support keyboards, so there's really little advantage to such devices.

Edited by simplezz, Oct 11 2012, 6:24pm :

It's all about marketing. M$ HAS to market this stuff properly. RT vs IPAD and W8 as the "new" way to go in laptops. People don't care what people here think is a justified comparison, they just know what they want their device to do and iPads are the benchmark for tablets. It's up to M$ point out the differences between RT and W8, if they don't, RT will fail miserably.

Until we actually see some of these Windows RT based tablets and see how well they run and what Apps MS has instore it is hard to pass judgement as to how well they will compare to the iPad or Android tablets. The same goes for the lower end Atom based tablets. If consumers get hands on these devices and they are slow, lacking responsiveness and simply suck (like netbooks) then they'll likely be a flop at any price point.

Microsoft is trying to carve out its own market segment with the W8 Pro devices. People keep saying Ultrabooks - well that is an utter fail!! Ultrabooks are selling well, and why, because they are priced too high for most consumers. I keep seeing talk about, but you can do more, true but there is still the law of diminishing returns. If these devices are going to be priced at $1000+ most consumers aren't going to want to buy them.

You have to remember that most of us are tech geeks, we aren't exactly the mainstream consumer. Most of them are buying their tablets for ease of use. Not to replace the productivity of desktop, laptop or some other device. Most of those people only have their PCs for basic computing anyways.

The way I see it:

Windows 8 RT Tablets will compete with iPad's
Windows 8 Pro Tablets will compete with MacBook Air.

I don't know why people are comparing Windows 8 Pro Tablets with an iPad. As if the iPad is lacking something (which it isn't). Compare feature to feature and price to price and you'll see Microsoft is competing with two separate products by Apple.

There is no way anyone can compare an Ipad to a Windows 8 pro tablet. The Ipad has less memory and storage, slower cpu and a mobile OS. The Windows 8 pro tablet will have more memory, storage, faster cpu and a full OS. I am waiting to buy one of these Win8 pro tablets because I need a computer with a full OS when I am out in the field doing work not an Ipad with a mobile OS. I can't see how anyone can compare these at all. A comparison with the Ipad to a tablet with the RT version is better comparison. I think these new ultrabook/tablets are going to be awesome and can't wait to buy one. I will be able to do a lot of my work while out in the field on a extremely portable lightweight system with a touchscreen and full OS. As of now there is not one device out there that can do this. An Ipad can't run the computer programs that I need.

paesan said,
There is no way anyone can compare an Ipad to a Windows 8 pro tablet. The Ipad has less memory and storage, slower cpu and a mobile OS. The Windows 8 pro tablet will have more memory, storage, faster cpu and a full OS. I am waiting to buy one of these Win8 pro tablets because I need a computer with a full OS when I am out in the field doing work not an Ipad with a mobile OS. I can't see how anyone can compare these at all. A comparison with the Ipad to a tablet with the RT version is better comparison. I think these new ultrabook/tablets are going to be awesome and can't wait to buy one. I will be able to do a lot of my work while out in the field on a extremely portable lightweight system with a touchscreen and full OS. As of now there is not one device out there that can do this. An Ipad can't run the computer programs that I need.

While I agree comparing an iPad to a Windows 8 Pro Tablet is apples to oranges, i think both RT and Windows 8 Pro tablets will **** the bed on battery life. Other than my Zune I have never seen any MS software or hardware last more than 2-3 hours with a battery vs 10+ that my iPad and Nexus7 get. That is the selling point of these devices at the moment. Something very easily carried around that lasts ALL DAY without requiring a recharge. Seeing 20+ years of MS software and hardware they have a long way to go to reach that. Working with the more limited but still very fully functional iPads and Droid tablets I would rather have the all day battery life than be able to use 10+ years of software that there is already an app for on non MS devices.

Also if an iPad can't run the software you need than you don't need a tablet you need a desktop or laptop. RDP with an iPad to a PC gives you just about everything you could want unless its 3d accelerated or requires mouse and KB. So windows tablets won't be for you either.

paesan said,
There is no way anyone can compare an Ipad to a Windows 8 pro tablet. The Ipad has less memory and storage, slower cpu and a mobile OS. The Windows 8 pro tablet will have more memory, storage, faster cpu and a full OS. I am waiting to buy one of these Win8 pro tablets because I need a computer with a full OS when I am out in the field doing work not an Ipad with a mobile OS. I can't see how anyone can compare these at all. A comparison with the Ipad to a tablet with the RT version is better comparison. I think these new ultrabook/tablets are going to be awesome and can't wait to buy one. I will be able to do a lot of my work while out in the field on a extremely portable lightweight system with a touchscreen and full OS. As of now there is not one device out there that can do this. An Ipad can't run the computer programs that I need.

Yeah people comparing iPads and Androids to x86 based tablets are crazy. Totally different purposes. You can actually do real work on an x86 based tablet with dock.

zeroomegazx said,

While I agree comparing an iPad to a Windows 8 Pro Tablet is apples to oranges, i think both RT and Windows 8 Pro tablets will **** the bed on battery life. Other than my Zune I have never seen any MS software or hardware last more than 2-3 hours with a battery vs 10+ that my iPad and Nexus7 get. That is the selling point of these devices at the moment. Something very easily carried around that lasts ALL DAY without requiring a recharge. Seeing 20+ years of MS software and hardware they have a long way to go to reach that. Working with the more limited but still very fully functional iPads and Droid tablets I would rather have the all day battery life than be able to use 10+ years of software that there is already an app for on non MS devices.

Also if an iPad can't run the software you need than you don't need a tablet you need a desktop or laptop. RDP with an iPad to a PC gives you just about everything you could want unless its 3d accelerated or requires mouse and KB. So windows tablets won't be for you either.

For the work I do an ultrabook/tablet pc is exactly what I need. The software programs I run for my work have been upgraded for this functionality and I am only waiting for these devices to come to market. Yes, at times I will need the use of a keyboard and mouse.

Asshat analysts like to stir markets to make money. $299.00 for an IPS tablet at 10" with some amazing build quality and 32GB, Wifi, etc.

Believe me when i say that I wouldn't complain whatsoever. The Surface Pro at $699 or $799 is a winner for me. Even at $899.00 it is a far greater production tablet than my iPad3 64GB LTE at $829.00

The Retina display over a 1080p display is minor.

The ones that want this at $299.00 saying it should be competitive with the iPad are smoking crack. The 32GB iPad3 with 4G service is $729.00.

The Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 is a full blown Intel experience with Windows 8 and its priced at roughly $649.00 and comes with 64GB and USB ports, etc.

Give me a break on these cry babies about pricing. Even with the RT at $499 and up is still leaps and bounds more productive than the iPad or Android Tablets. Office is the key.

Many consumers will see it like this:
RT=Ipad (Both are "limited" computers in that they only do certain things) Prices will have to be very close and experience will have to be very close. I don't see M$ winning in this arena unless they go below Ipad prices.

W8 Tablets will need to be marketed as such. EVERYONE I know wants the option to simply remove their screen from their laptop to just watch movies, play games OR make presentations with clients. Then they want to easily pop it back in later for normal use. The price also needs to be on par with laptops and not gouge simply because it's something new....which of course is exactly what's happening...it will be interesting to see how it works out.

There is one other cost noone ever seems to bring up, the cost of App migration. Many, many people have had an iPhone or iPod touch or iPad or Droid device already and have invested quite a bit in Apps on that platform. Those Apps already transfer to and from most iOS/Droid devices. Anyone buying a Windows RT Tablet will be starting from scratch again and have to reinvest in Apps and risk rendering their current App library for iOS or Android useless. Some people have invested heavily into these other platforms and may not wish to just make that App library a lost cause. MS is WAAAAAYYYY too late to the Tablet/mobile game, they've been struggling since the iPad came out saying they would have a tablet ready in 3-6 months every week. It seems by now most people have already chosen and invested in their tablet/mobile OS of choice and would require quite a bit to move. I myself have 4 iPads of varying generations and only recently got a Nexus7 because of the $25 store credit to help get some of the core apps I absolutely need moves over without additional cost. I am quite invested in iOS and have a small Droid library now and see Windows RT as a complete waste of my time. A Windows 8 x86 tablet would suit some of my needs but they are waaaay overpriced and I have laptops that already run Windows 8 so what is the point?

I love how Windows 8 runs old hardware so much faster than 7 (yes it really does) but I see Windows 8/RT as nothing more than an extremely late cash grab my MS to take a slice out of the runaway iPad success. In doing so they have riled the core of power users with the Metro and UI changes to Windows. If Windows 8 is finally so much more faster than past kernels, why didn't they do these tweaks YEARS ago? Support for Mobile (arm) or slower processors (atom) could have been added in Vista with power saving and optimized code, why wait until now to do it? Oh yeah thats right they want a piece of Apple Pie....

Totally agree... I've helped a few people switch from Apple to Android over this past year, and yea it can get surprisingly expensive and difficult to get yourself set back up.

zeroomegazx said,
If Windows 8 is finally so much more faster than past kernels, why didn't they do these tweaks YEARS ago? Support for Mobile (arm) or slower processors (atom) could have been added in Vista with power saving and optimized code, why wait until now to do it? Oh yeah thats right they want a piece of Apple Pie....

that's like saying 'why didn't sony release the blu-ray player back in the 80's instead of the dvd?' or 'why didn't ford release the 2012 model years ago?'

wookietv said,

that's like saying 'why didn't sony release the blu-ray player back in the 80's instead of the dvd?' or 'why didn't ford release the 2012 model years ago?'

Not true, Unlike your analogy which requires tech for cars and media (blu ray vs dvd etc) to have been known about in years past MS knew how to optimize Windows as Windows 8 is YEARS ago (look at any windows embedded) they have just chosen not to include that technology into Windows Desktops until now when it suits them to compete against Apple and Google.

The problem with these prices, are they are in fact horrible.

The average cost of a Windows 8 RT device is starting at $500.
The average cost of a Windows 8 Atom device is around $600.
The average cost of a Windows 8 i5-i7 device is around $800-900.

The issue I see here, is that for the Atom devices, they are trying to sell you a netbook w/ touchscreen for the price of a full laptop. That is/should not fly with consumers.

The RT devices may be on par/better than the Atom devices, but do not have the backwards compatibility with Intel Apps.

I think RT devices should be starting at $300, Atom devices starting at $400, and i5-i7 devices starting at $600. To clarify, I think these starting prices should be for the tablet device itself, not including keyboard docks.

I feel these prices would be best for the following reasons:

RT devices have no marketshare, and this pricing structure would help it compete against Android.

Atom devices are low-powered, and thus its starting price would compete against iPad, and the fact it can run all Windows apps would be a major competitive advantage.

i5-i7 devices starting at $600 would be a major competitive advantage against the high-end ipad, b/c it is a FULL computer.

The RTs should be cheap, that's the only way you're going to get people to buy into the RT ecosystem.

The Win8 pros are basically ultrabooks, so the $1000 range is fine.

I'd say the prices are "too high" if you compared them to Android tablets, but compared to other Windows machines, I'd say the prices are on par.

MS has a real opportunity to create massive excitement by undercutting the crap out of the Lenovos of the world. If they price Surface at $299 without keyboard, and $399 with, it will start selling out instantly. They would have to create a real piece of sh*& to make that fail. I saw the 45 minutes presentation of the Surface tablet they looked pretty dang serious about this product.

Then again, Lenovo just topped HP, something tells me they know a little about pricing. Although there machines still have too many "lenovo" utilities on top of the OS, at least they speak english when you call them for help. Sorry Kumar, no offense.

This is the "Android Effect" where people start to think they should get free hardware and software all the time. Mind you Windows 8's UI is much better than Androids (yeech!) and is worth $400 just for that alone.

NeoPogo said,
Windows's UI is much better than Androids (yeech!) and is worth $400 just for that alone.

lol that was hillarious, thanks for that...we'll let consumer interest decide that

This all depends on what type of tablet we are talking about. You can't compare a hybrid tablet to an iPad, specs are different and they also include the dock. I would rather pay also for a quality piece and not the cheap stuff OEMs have been putting out for years.

wv@gt said,
This all depends on what type of tablet we are talking about. You can't compare a hybrid tablet to an iPad, specs are different and they also include the dock. I would rather pay also for a quality piece and not the cheap stuff OEMs have been putting out for years.

How will Average Joe differentiate a Hybrid Tablet from a Tablet? And do they include the dock?

Some articles I read yesterday were rumoring that the docks were going to cost another $100 to $150. Same thing with the rumored Surface prices. Articles are rumoring that they don't include the price of the keyboard cover.

Condere said,

How will Average Joe differentiate a Hybrid Tablet from a Tablet? And do they include the dock?

Some articles I read yesterday were rumoring that the docks were going to cost another $100 to $150. Same thing with the rumored Surface prices. Articles are rumoring that they don't include the price of the keyboard cover.

Because they'll be set up at the store showing how they dock and how you can use the normal Windows desktop and programs.

At same price like iPad or even higher, i definitelly buy iPad.
It should be somewhere lower than 80% of an iPad price to take in consideration a Microsoft tablet. Still not shure i will buy it even at this price.

eiffel_g said,
At same price like iPad or even higher, i definitelly buy iPad.
It should be somewhere lower than 80% of an iPad price to take in consideration a Microsoft tablet. Still not shure i will buy it even at this price.

Why? The $500 Acer does a crap done more than an iPad.

I wouldn't count the prices of low level Android in the comparison. Just like we've seen with the ultra cheap Linux netbooks, people will realize their limitations and opt to pay a bit more for a Windows version. Now, ARM based Windows RT tablet do really fall on the iPad battleground, and if Apple can deliver a unibody aluminum design with IPS screen I don't see why other OEMs cannot do the same, with comparable quality. Microsoft could help by reducing the OEM price of Windows RT license close to zero; who cares? They'll get money from the purchase of apps and market dominance anyway. In addition, Microsoft could use its Surface devices with aggressive pricing to put pressure on the OEMs, because there is no excuse for them to deliver a Windows RT comparable in price and quality to an iPad, since we know Apples profit margin is highest in the industry.
I think these initial prices are high on purpose, like any negotiation, everybody sees with how much they can get away with, betting on the fact that for many people a Windows RT tablet with Office could practically replace both their iPad and their laptop, because they don't use legacy apps. Then when others reduce their prices the rest will do as well.

Charles Keledjian said,
I wouldn't count the prices of low level Android in the comparison. Just like we've seen with the ultra cheap Linux netbooks, people will realize their limitations and opt to pay a bit more for a Windows version.

REALLY???

I've helped several people switch from iPads to Android as they've figured out why pay all that money to play Angry Birds, check e-mail, check Facebook, and read some e-books. 7" android cheap tablets work well enough for them compared to shelling out twice that amount for another iPad. Perhaps these people are the few, or not the start of a trend. But if they are, that could be trouble.

Edit: and not for nothing, myself and pretty much everyone else at my workplace is content with our cheapie 7" androids.

Condere said,

REALLY???

I've helped several people switch from iPads to Android as they've figured out why pay all that money to play Angry Birds, check e-mail, check Facebook, and read some e-books. 7" android cheap tablets work well enough for them compared to shelling out twice that amount for another iPad. Perhaps these people are the few, or not the start of a trend. But if they are, that could be trouble.

Edit: and not for nothing, myself and pretty much everyone else at my workplace is content with our cheapie 7" androids.

7" tablet buyers aren't the same market as 10" tablet buyers. 7" tablets are used for games and reading an eBook. 10" tablets are used for slightly more intensive tasks, though still not very.

MS can't just simply apply pressure to OEMS to force pricing down. Manufactures are already worried about that and if MS decided to apply that type of pressure they'd likely pull back some of their own devices and you might even see more backlash. On the other side of that is MS and anti-trust. They have to be competitive in the market and can't "force" pricing the way Apple has been allowed to do.

Microsoft could help by reducing the OEM price of Windows RT license close to zero; who cares? They'll get money from the purchase of apps and market dominance anyway.

I think you are confusing a few things here. From what I hear the cost of RT is already pretty negligible. Even if they dropped the pricing it wouldn't likely affect the cost from manufactures they have to make money on the devices alone and I'm sure the parts they are buying don't give them much overhead.

I'm not sure how the Windows RT market is going to be setup but you are confusing their possible back-end revenue stream with what Apple has. Apple can under-cut prices because they take 30% of all the revenues. Windows/Android device Manufactures get none of that back-end so they can't just come in with a $99 product and expect to make up $200-300 in apps. Even MS can't expect to make much off the back-end on RT devices, not for awhile anyways.

I may be wrong and I am sure you'll correct me if I am but from my understanding Windows 8 RT is kind of like iOS? So with Windows 8 RT you cant run x86 programs but apps like the kind you find on and iPad if made for Windows 8 RT can be used is that correct?

So to me manufactures should be pricing Windows 8 RT tablets lower than iPads if they want to sell any because Apple owns the tablet market and has an established eco system with lots of apps.

Now for Windows 8 Pro tablets they should be the same price as iPads and maybe more depending on the hardware that is in them. I mean some of these pro tablets specs are better than a lot of laptop specs but we see them in a smaller form factor with a touch screen (so a tablet) and because of that its not surprising that they will cost a lot more than an iPad.

But I do think its manufacturers release Windows 8 Pro tablets with slightly above iPad specs but for the same price they should sell really well. To me you get the best of both worlds, you get a tablet with the Modern UI but because there a full OS there you can do all the things would would like to do on the desktop if you choose. Plus its the little things like playing videos with subtitles files and have SD card slots and USB slots to expand storage. I think getting the message across to consumers is the key. Im going to telling all my friends who want a new tablet to go with a Windows 8 or at least make them consider it before going for an iPad.

Richard Cousins said,
I may be wrong and I am sure you'll correct me if I am but from my understanding Windows 8 RT is kind of like iOS? So with Windows 8 RT you cant run x86 programs but apps like the kind you find on and iPad if made for Windows 8 RT can be used is that correct?

So to me manufactures should be pricing Windows 8 RT tablets lower than iPads if they want to sell any because Apple owns the tablet market and has an established eco system with lots of apps.

Now for Windows 8 Pro tablets they should be the same price as iPads and maybe more depending on the hardware that is in them. I mean some of these pro tablets specs are better than a lot of laptop specs but we see them in a smaller form factor with a touch screen (so a tablet) and because of that its not surprising that they will cost a lot more than an iPad.

But I do think its manufacturers release Windows 8 Pro tablets with slightly above iPad specs but for the same price they should sell really well. To me you get the best of both worlds, you get a tablet with the Modern UI but because there a full OS there you can do all the things would would like to do on the desktop if you choose. Plus its the little things like playing videos with subtitles files and have SD card slots and USB slots to expand storage. I think getting the message across to consumers is the key. Im going to telling all my friends who want a new tablet to go with a Windows 8 or at least make them consider it before going for an iPad.

The Pro tablets with Core i based processors will always cost more than an iPad and close to what ultrabooks cost, because that is what they are. The ATOM based ones will be priced closer to the iPad, such as the Acer W510 at $499.

RT based ones will be priced the same or lower than the iPad since they can only run RT apps and are toy-like like the iPad.

mrp04 said,

The Pro tablets with Core i based processors will always cost more than an iPad and close to what ultrabooks cost, because that is what they are. The ATOM based ones will be priced closer to the iPad, such as the Acer W510 at $499.

RT based ones will be priced the same or lower than the iPad since they can only run RT apps and are toy-like like the iPad.

I wouldnt say "toy like"... But I see what you mean.

The only reason the company I work for is considering Pro tablets is because the software companies we deal with don't have RT apps out yet.

Richard Cousins said,
I may be wrong and I am sure you'll correct me if I am but from my understanding Windows 8 RT is kind of like iOS? So with Windows 8 RT you cant run x86 programs but apps like the kind you find on and iPad if made for Windows 8 RT can be used is that correct?

So to me manufactures should be pricing Windows 8 RT tablets lower than iPads if they want to sell any because Apple owns the tablet market and has an established eco system with lots of apps.

Now for Windows 8 Pro tablets they should be the same price as iPads and maybe more depending on the hardware that is in them. I mean some of these pro tablets specs are better than a lot of laptop specs but we see them in a smaller form factor with a touch screen (so a tablet) and because of that its not surprising that they will cost a lot more than an iPad.

But I do think its manufacturers release Windows 8 Pro tablets with slightly above iPad specs but for the same price they should sell really well. To me you get the best of both worlds, you get a tablet with the Modern UI but because there a full OS there you can do all the things would would like to do on the desktop if you choose. Plus its the little things like playing videos with subtitles files and have SD card slots and USB slots to expand storage. I think getting the message across to consumers is the key. Im going to telling all my friends who want a new tablet to go with a Windows 8 or at least make them consider it before going for an iPad.

I agree with you. RT tablets should be priced less than or equal to iPads. Pro tablets can be more based on specs. They should keep it at a reasonable price though. It's a new market... People arent sure if they wanna gamble $1000 away just to see if a device will work for them.

I am a Netowrk Manager at a High School, and I have done alot of QA's sessions with students and Teachers. Here is what I and getting from them....

Microsoft Surface priced at $299 or Lower, Game Over APPLE. They will leave their iPhone and iPads.

Microsoft Surface Priced at $399, around 50% would consider leaving Apple and looking into it. Also many will look at Android Tablets.

Microsoft Surface Priced at $499 and above. Good Luck Microsoft it was nice working with you. over 90% of them will stay with the Apple or Android Ecosystem they are already in.

Take this is you will, Over 80% of my students are on free/reduced lunch. Money is a major factor. With the 2015 Digtial Initative in Florda, we will be buy loads of Tabelts.

MikadoWU said,
I am a Netowrk Manager at a High School, and I have done alot of QA's sessions with students and Teachers. Here is what I and getting from them....

Microsoft Surface priced at $299 or Lower, Game Over APPLE. They will leave their iPhone and iPads.

Microsoft Surface Priced at $399, around 50% would consider leaving Apple and looking into it. Also many will look at Android Tablets.

Microsoft Surface Priced at $499 and above. Good Luck Microsoft it was nice working with you. over 90% of them will stay with the Apple or Android Ecosystem they are already in.

Take this is you will, Over 80% of my students are on free/reduced lunch. Money is a major factor. With the 2015 Digtial Initative in Florda, we will be buy loads of Tabelts.

This is so true, why cant manufacturers see this? Really are they so blinkered? I get that the more expensive tablets with higher specs are catered to a different market but the big market is the standard consumer who is easily swayed and just wants a tablet because their friend have one and they can browse the web and play angry birds on it. So price is the ultimate factor and Apple have the established eco system. How can manufactures not get this? If Microsoft don't get this with Surface and don't price it at say the same price as the iPad then they aren't serious about it being a success in my eyes.

MikadoWU said,
I am a Netowrk Manager at a High School, and I have done alot of QA's sessions with students and Teachers. Here is what I and getting from them....

Microsoft Surface priced at $299 or Lower, Game Over APPLE. They will leave their iPhone and iPads.

Microsoft Surface Priced at $399, around 50% would consider leaving Apple and looking into it. Also many will look at Android Tablets.

Microsoft Surface Priced at $499 and above. Good Luck Microsoft it was nice working with you. over 90% of them will stay with the Apple or Android Ecosystem they are already in.


Fairly much this. The highest Microsoft can offer the RT version of the tablet is $399 and even at that price it will have a reduced consumer base. $299 would be the sweet spot to make an impact on the market. $499 or even $599 as the article suggests are no go. I'm possibly interested in getting one (already have 3 tablets) and would buy at $299, would think about at $399, above that would be a no.
Even the intel versions can't go above $599 otherwise people will just buy the iPad instead.

Hackersoft MS MVP said,

Fairly much this. The highest Microsoft can offer the RT version of the tablet is $399 and even at that price it will have a reduced consumer base. $299 would be the sweet spot to make an impact on the market. $499 or even $599 as the article suggests are no go. I'm possibly interested in getting one (already have 3 tablets) and would buy at $299, would think about at $399, above that would be a no.

Agreed. Price will definitely be important.

Even the intel versions can't go above $599 otherwise people will just buy the iPad instead.

But this just seems ignorant. Perhaps you're unaware that the intel versions will sport (up to) core i7 processors? You're talking about something with significantly higher specs than an macbook air, for instance. $599 for one of those is too good to be true.

Hackersoft MS MVP said,

Fairly much this. The highest Microsoft can offer the RT version of the tablet is $399 and even at that price it will have a reduced consumer base. $299 would be the sweet spot to make an impact on the market. $499 or even $599 as the article suggests are no go. I'm possibly interested in getting one (already have 3 tablets) and would buy at $299, would think about at $399, above that would be a no.
Even the intel versions can't go above $599 otherwise people will just buy the iPad instead.

The Pro with i cpu's will have to be above $599, it replaces your laptop as well as your tablet, with the same power as an ultrabook. The pro is for people who need to do work (on something with a keyboard and powerful hardware) and also want the convenience of a tablet at the same time.

Due to demographics at my school, I have mostly focused on the RT. Personally, here is how I feel.

I fully grasp that the PRO version is a desktop replacement in terms of SPECs. When you start making all in one units, production coast should lower versus making a monitor and the computer, plus adding accessories.

As an Educator.... The Surface Pro can change Education, from both the Teacher and Student prospective. It flat has everything..... Coupled with a Network Projector, and you have a 100% mobile Teacher constantly engaging with the students.


Personally
Surface RT
$299 - I Buy 4. $399 - I buy 2.
Surface Pro
$699 I buy 3 $799 and up 2

For the School?
Surface RT
$299 - Every Student gets one.
Surface Pro
$699 Every Teacher gets one
REcomend Every Parent to buy one.

Northgrove said,
$1100 for a 13" tablet is shocking... Why so expensive? It'll barely sell at all.

Its not aimed at being an iPad competitor, its for people that need a serious tablet/notebook running full windows on a top of the range intel Core i7 CPU to do real work on.

iPad can be seen as a replacement to notebooks or even desktops for people that only do simple things (web browsing, check email, play games etc.) but if you need a computer for work an iPad is generally an 'as well as' item.

This device from Lenovo is a full replacement.

Northgrove said,
$1100 for a 13" tablet is shocking... Why so expensive? It'll barely sell at all.

Intel has a 50% margin on it's CPUs and then there's a Windows license, these are probably the single two greatest costs.

Northgrove said,
$1100 for a 13" tablet is shocking... Why so expensive? It'll barely sell at all.

Because this is a real computer, not a toy. RT tablets (more toyish) will be priced similar to other ARM based tablets. Intel based ones will be priced closer to the systems they are similar to. ATOM based ones will be a bit more expensive than netbooks and Core i based ones will be similarly priced to ultrabooks, since that is what they are but with touch screens.

Comparable versions should be priced the same as the iPad otherwise they are going to struggle... It doesn't matter how nice it looks or how powerful it is, people do not care about that, i've never known anyone talk about buying a tablet, only 'an ipad', no one even gives it a second thought..

Uplift said,
Comparable versions should be priced the same as the iPad otherwise they are going to struggle... It doesn't matter how nice it looks or how powerful it is, people do not care about that, i've never known anyone talk about buying a tablet, only 'an ipad', no one even gives it a second thought..

Yeah, all RT tablets to me are basically iPads regardless or the specs because you can only get apps from the Windows Store and because of this should be the same price or less than the iPad. The Pro tablets off much more and should start at iPad prices and then go up from there based on spec.

Considering that Windows RT won't run older Windows applications, outside of Office 2013 and apps from the Marketplace, that has the potential to seriously restrict the sales of any Windows 8 touch device. CNET editor Rich Brown has given his opinion on the situation:?

lol and the ipad doesnt run full blown osx apps either so whats ur whinging point?

DKAngel said,
Considering that Windows RT won't run older Windows applications, outside of Office 2013 and apps from the Marketplace, that has the potential to seriously restrict the sales of any Windows 8 touch device. CNET editor Rich Brown has given his opinion on the situation:?

lol and the ipad doesnt run full blown osx apps either so whats ur whinging point?

Well said. I can't wait to get rid of my iPad and pick up a Windows 8 tablet. iPad is only good for reading emails and web surfing.

DKAngel said,
Considering that Windows RT won't run older Windows applications, outside of Office 2013 and apps from the Marketplace, that has the potential to seriously restrict the sales of any Windows 8 touch device. CNET editor Rich Brown has given his opinion on the situation:?

lol and the ipad doesnt run full blown osx apps either so whats ur whinging point?

Windows RT has a desktop mode and is more like a pc... iOS does not, and is not like a mac.

Uplift said,

Windows RT has a desktop mode and is more like a pc... iOS does not, and is not like a mac.

And your point?

If RT devices are sold without proper advertising (in that they cant run older apps) then you may have a point, but I feel this will not be the case. Desktop mode allows for access to task manager, windows explorer etc. but so long as its clear that installing old apps cant be done I really cant see an issue here.

Uplift said,

Windows RT has a desktop mode and is more like a pc... iOS does not, and is not like a mac.

But is it usable with a touchscreen? I don't think capacitive screens and all those small icons in Ribbon UIs will go well together.

francescob said,

But is it usable with a touchscreen? I don't think capacitive screens and all those small icons in Ribbon UIs will go well together.

Office 2013 has Touch Mode which increases the separation between the icons.

DKAngel said,
Considering that Windows RT won't run older Windows applications, outside of Office 2013 and apps from the Marketplace, that has the potential to seriously restrict the sales of any Windows 8 touch device. CNET editor Rich Brown has given his opinion on the situation:?

lol and the ipad doesnt run full blown osx apps either so whats ur whinging point?


My "whinging point" is not a poke at the iPad or Windows 8/RT, but that average joe user will think they are getting a full windows 8 experience, like they would have on their PC, but in reality, if they try to install a game like Football Manager or Steam from the desktop, it won't work. And if average joe knows this, would they be willing to pay the premium for the full desktop experience.

francescob said,

But is it usable with a touchscreen? I don't think capacitive screens and all those small icons in Ribbon UIs will go well together.

They go very well together, try using it instead of "thinking" they wont work well.

Toysoldier said,

They go very well together, try using it instead of "thinking" they wont work well.

Using it where? I don't have a magic supply of 11-13'' capacitive 1366x768 tablets. I have tried Win8 on a touchscreen AiO and all the dialogs and applications using Ribbon UIs, except Office 2013 that I don't have, were identical (no spacing added) and pretty hard to use despite the 20'' screen so I don't think a 11'' or 13'' screen will make things better.

francescob said,

Using it where? I don't have a magic supply of 11-13'' capacitive 1366x768 tablets. I have tried Win8 on a touchscreen AiO and all the dialogs and applications using Ribbon UIs, except Office 2013 that I don't have, were identical (no spacing added) and pretty hard to use despite the 20'' screen so I don't think a 11'' or 13'' screen will make things better.

Well I do have a "magic" supply of 11-13" capacitive 1366x768 tablets. They work very well, Infact I have had the loan of an Acer one for a while now and it feels far more natural when using the ribbon than on the larger 20"+ screens.

There seems to be this stigma with pricing tablets and it's very hard to get it right. If you price it significantly below the iPad, people will just see it as a cheap competitor and not be interested. If it's priced at iPad levels or even higher, they'll say "Would rather just have an iPad" - so trying to strike the right balance is going to prove difficult!

I have to say, having absolutely no bias towards any one type of tablet or vendor (and therefore not preferring any one product over another), I do think if Microsoft price the RT version above the iPad, it'll be an error of judgement. Even if the hardware is comparable, the iPad ecosystem is now very mature, the Windows 8 one is not. There's got to be a real incentive to lure people in!

Chicane-UK said,
There seems to be this stigma with pricing tablets and it's very hard to get it right. If you price it significantly below the iPad, people will just see it as a cheap competitor and not be interested. If it's priced at iPad levels or even higher, they'll say "Would rather just have an iPad" - so trying to strike the right balance is going to prove difficult!

I have to say, having absolutely no bias towards any one type of tablet or vendor (and therefore not preferring any one product over another), I do think if Microsoft price the RT version above the iPad, it'll be an error of judgement. Even if the hardware is comparable, the iPad ecosystem is now very mature, the Windows 8 one is not. There's got to be a real incentive to lure people in!

I think if windows 8 tablets are priced on the same level of the ipad, not below it or above it they will gain traction quickly. They just need to make sure that they introduce the OS to everyone and that the marketing doesn't suck. The problem with other tablets has been that they don't offer a consistent interface, something that Windows 8 Metro UI or Mordern UI resolves.

I agree about RT tablets being priced too high.

But i don't have any problem with pricing of most of the Core i5 / i7 + Win 8 hybrids. They're basically an Ultrabook with a detachable or 180 degree flippable touch screen. You get Ultrabook hardware - SSD, Core i7, often a higher res screen and up to 8GB RAM in many of them. Most high-end Ultrabooks are often priced this high.

But one BIG advantage the hybrids will have over most laptop/Ultrabooks (apart from the touch screen) is that most of the hybrids i've seen have superior IPS display panels, rather than cheap TN junk panels in 98% of laptops (even the Macbook Air uses this junk). So that means you get superior viewing angles, better contrast and FAR better colour reproduction.

But still some idiots complain about the price when this isn't rocket science. These kind of hybrids are something you would buy to replace your laptop and do real work on. If you had a device like this you wouldn't have to pointlessly waste money on a laptop + tablet. You would have one device that does it all.

Chicane-UK said,
There seems to be this stigma with pricing tablets and it's very hard to get it right. If you price it significantly below the iPad, people will just see it as a cheap competitor and not be interested.

The Kindle Fire would like to disagree with you.

nickcruz said,

They just need to make sure that they introduce the OS to everyone and that the marketing doesn't suck.

I wouldn't count on Microsoft for marketing properly. People still don't know the difference between RT and Pro yet, let alone anything about Windows 8 and it comes out in 2 weeks.

NoClipMode said,
I agree about RT tablets being priced too high.
But still some idiots complain about the price when this isn't rocket science.

With the exception of calling people idiots I agree with you. However, the more I think about it the less likely I am to buy a Microsoft tablet over the iPad. It is only common sense that if the surface is priced too high then why bother spending the money when the iPad is a great device and has a market that is already established. I am waiting for the surface pro but I have been thinking, why even bother wasting money. The iPad is great and cheap. I think that is why most people are hollering about the price.

I know the pros, cons, and comparison between the two but think about it. The iPad is cheap and a fully capable device. I am not considering the surface with the arm processor because I think the performance will not be that great. I guess I will have to wait and test it out first.

BillyJack said,
The iPad is cheap and a fully capable device.

Wha.... Did you just call the iPad a fully capable device?

Cool i cant wait to run Photoshop, Office and Visual Studio on it, and plug in all my peripherals in to the USB ports that i must have just not seen.

NoClipMode said,

Wha.... Did you just call the iPad a fully capable device?

Cool i cant wait to run Photoshop, Office and Visual Studio on it, and plug in all my peripherals in to the USB ports that i must have just not seen.

lol, Don't get carried away. I know it is not on par with a Windows 7 pro tablet. Like I said, I know all of the pros, cons, differences. What I mean is that for most people, for what they are buying tablets for, would be just fine with an iPad compared to the Windows surface pro when factoring the price.

By the way, I am sure you can access office online with the iPad. I know some people who work with Microsoft Office documents on their iPad although I am not sure with what software. There are also Photoshop applications on iPad. (see the links below) Obviously they are limited but they exist. Who would want to use Photoshop on a tablet? Who would buy a tablet to run Visual Studio? I am a developer and I would never consider developing with a tablet. iPad may not have a lot of peripherals but there are a bunch for it. For what tablets are intended to be used for, yes the iPad is fully capable.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app...op-express/id331975235?mt=8
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app...shop-touch/id495716481?mt=8