Windows 8.1 program kills the Start button because no one can ever be happy


Users can disable the Start button in Windows 8.1 with the new "StartIsGone" program.

Ready for the controversy surrounding the Start button in Windows 8 and 8.1 to be over? Too bad – it's here to stay.

In a post on the Neowin forums, Sergey of Winaero wrote how he isn't pleased with Microsoft's decision to bring back the Start button but not the Start menu in Windows 8.1. So how is Sergey going to solve the problem? By getting rid of the Start button entirely with a new program.

"After release of Windows 8.1 I found its Start button useless," he wrote. "Seriously, there are no issues for me if that button is not shown on the taskbar. Sure, I miss the old good Start menu."

In his new "StartIsGone" program for Windows 8.1, Sergey provides users with the option of removing the Start button, which he notes will give users additional space on the taskbar. The program can be downloaded from the Winaero website, with versions available for both 32- and 64-bit Windows 8.1 variants.


The Start button in Windows 8.1 has power features available on right click.

Sergey isn't alone in his disdain for the lack of a Start menu in Windows 8.1 – many Neowin users in previous articles have noted that the Start button in the operating system update doesn't actually bring back the functionality of the original button, as it only serves as a link to the Start screen. Several third-party applications have been released to bring the Start menu back, and Lenovo is even pre-loading such a program on all its commercial computers.

Source: Winaero via Neowin forums | Top image via Winaero

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I just don't get why they make sure a big problem. Give people what they want. We want the old start menu, just give the option to have it, what's the big deal? Or maybe like this program, that's enough. Just make everyone happy, let us configure it, that is what is so beautiful about the PC. CONFIGURATION OPTIONS.

I was kinda surprised when I tried 8.1 out on the desktop, that it only takes you to the Start screen...kinda pointless to even bother adding it back period. I was using Start8 and I uninstalled if on the laptop.

Well - as someone who utterly loathed Windows 8, after a brief play around with Windows 8.1 (MSDN user) I'm pleasantly surprised by some of the changes - they really seem to have listened to peoples issues. It's the little details too that I like, such as having the option of keeping your desktop wallpaper as the background on the start screen - and the search function in the start screen no longer being separated up into categories. Just slight tweaks and improvements, but ones I noticed immediately and liked.

I don't see myself rushing off to install it, but I certainly won't be avoiding it like I have been up until now. I'll wait for it to launch formally and maybe.. MAYBE.. see about putting it on my work PC again (ran Windows 8 for about 6 months so that I couldn't be accused of not 'giving it a fair go' - I got very, very irritated with it).

Am I the only one who thinks that this software is a sign of protest against Microsoft's killing of the Start Menu?

I'm glad that the Start Menu is dead and for me, the Start Screen is a much better hub for launching apps.

Mashiro said,

I'm glad that the Start Menu is dead and for me, the Start Screen is a much better hub for launching apps.

The Start Menu is not dead, it isn't implemented by default, but it is still available as 3rth party.

The Start Screen is indeed better for launching Metro Apps, but sucks for desktop usage where you need to have several windows/programs open at once, using Metro for that is like getting dragged away from your workbench all the time.
I know some people just add tons of shortcuts on their desktop, but that doesn't work for some including me, I find a cluttered desktop messy to find around in, I need my stuff stored in each it's drawer, that is where the Start Menu comes in handy.

Can I just say to the people who keep telling the people who think differently to them to shut up and go away.... stop it! LOL! Everyone has the right to their own opinion.

If you like the Start Screen then that's fine, if you don't that's fine too. Everyone has the right to express their views and, ultimately, either companies will make their products customisable so both groups are happy or they will make them suit the majority group.

My personal view is that the Start Screen, Apps and Touchscreen on a full size desktop PC are useless. I have disabled all of them and use Start8 to bring back the Start Menu.

On a tablet the Start Screen, Apps and Touchscreen make sense and are fine.

Microsoft are trying to cash in on the Apple way of doing things but taking it a step further by trying to make everyone use one OS/UI on all our devices. This just doesn't work. There are 4 major form factors:

Desktop
Laptop
Tablet
Phone

For Desktops the traditional windows OS works best

For laptaps A choice of both traditional and new Win8 style can work as a laptop can make use of some touch/apps features. depending on it's design.

For Tablets & Phones the newer Win8 style of Start Screen/Touch/Apps makes perfect sense and is ideal.

Horses for courses.

I find it odd how obtuse MS is being about user complaints, when they said they wanted the start button back, obviously they expected to click on it and have the start menu. What's the point of bringing it back if you're actually putting in a new button and just labeling it "start"? That will probably leave the people who were complaining even more confused and also feeling like MS misunderstands its client base.

There has always been the invisible button in the corner that opens the start menu, Which I'd rather, giving me more task-bar space (I use the Win+(NUMB) a lot

And then on my tablet, I always just slide out from the charms bar.

I'd use this program a fair bit

It would be nice if MS includes the Start Menu as a use choice.
Start 8 or Classic Shells solves the first issue though.
As for the full-screen Apps, they suck anyway compared to their desktop counterparts, lack of to many features, and you can't really have them side by side unless you use a 3rth party program, but it doesn't bother me that they are in the OS since some people prefer to use them.
The Metro concept works great on my Xbox, WP8 and tablet, but on my desktop and laptop I have to many other needs which generally makes Metro useless.
I even still use the PS and CMD CLI a lot, much faster to script some things than clicking around.
If people are happy with Metro on desktop and laptop PC's fine, but why the bashing at people that would like the Start Menu?
It's like telling people that they shouldn't be allowed to wear pink underwear.
Guess what, that is called dictatorship.
If there was a Start Menu, who the F* forces you to use it?
The option to hide it would make things even more bearable for Metro fans, but seems like a lot of them don't like that other people can have choices, kind of selfish isn't it?

I'll just say it: I think the brouhaha over the Start Menu/Button on Windows 8 is the stupidest thing on the internet right now.

As long as we still have the desktop, the start button should be in place, whether it's just for taking you back to the new start screen or the old menu. Personally I think they should have left the start button alone. I think we all know MS is going to ditch the desktop all together once they have enough good quality apps in the app store.

Upgrading to Vista from XP: LOL SAME OLD WINDOWS WITH A PRETTY NEW SKIN ON THE TASKBAR AND START MENU BUT WITH LONGER BOOT TIMES AND MORE CRASHES

Upgrading to Windows 8 from 7: LOL THEY CHANGED EVERYTHING, F*CK THEM

Dot Matrix said,
Upgrading to 7 from XP: WTF, WHERE'S MY CLASSIC START MENU AND CLASSIC THEME?! FRAK THEM!

Windows 7 did have the Classic theme, though.
I still miss the Classic Start menu at times.

FalseAgent said,
Upgrading to Vista from XP: LOL SAME OLD WINDOWS WITH A PRETTY NEW SKIN ON THE TASKBAR AND START MENU BUT WITH LONGER BOOT TIMES AND MORE CRASHES

*Bzzt* Wrong!

I don't want the start button (or menu) back... I'm happy with the Windows 8 version, and with the Metro interface paradigms where desktop has its own place.
So, this new start button is redondant with the hardware Windows button on my tablet and with my Windows Key on my desktop's keyboard.
So I certainly get this program once Windows 8.1 released... But, please let the start button and menu gone...

What they should of done is brought back both the Start Button and Start Menu from prior OS as a choice and let the user decide. Set to Start Screen by default but put in an option to enable the button then choose if it should provide a legacy menu or the Start Screen. Even then (like some apps) maybe still provide a way to get to the Start Screen even if the button goes to the legacy menu (eg for hybrid systems).

As it stands they brought back the Start Button. Linked it to the Start Screen. And provided no way for the user to hide said (semi-useless) button.

the problem with design-by-committee is that the collective intelligence of said committee is inversely proportionate to the number of mouths in the committee. sadly. microsoft is a huge company. with lots of big mouths.

Either MS is lying or someone is terribly lost. I remember watching a MS forum whereby the female MS REP stated that windows 8 was to be the OS for everyone, tablet/laptop/desktop.

Seems here on Neowin in statements above, some people are unaware of this. the desktop will be relevant for users who need the desktop. What MS has done with win8/8.1 is shove it out the door and try and convince homers that, "this is the newest and best and you want it." Ok, so it has touchscreen crap..so what? touchscreen is good for tablets but for people who create 3D renderings ie, 3dsmax, just how the hell can you do that with a touchscreen? alot of 3dsmax and cad-cam users use tablets for precision development.

All MS is trying to do is get into the ipad market with windows 8/8.1. I like the fast boot time of 8.1 but I always go to desktop. tablets are for mobile computing NOT power computing. I don't care how many haswells you put in them. I've heard many people in general who don't like tablets because MS developed also the cloud. MS wants your data. they want to take it away from you. suppose you lose your job and can't pay for your monthly cloud charge etc.. MS has your data, be it personal, medical whatever. you don't have your data.

I want my data, it is mine and recently in the news MS has been in the news about getting government requests for data. somehow this doesn't bother people?

MS will eventually change to new UI, a new fad that MS fans will fall in love with but as history has shown, empires rise and fall.

The BUTTON is useless/worthless without the MENU, so we haven't actually been offered anything new here, same'ol ****. different marketing.
Boot2desktop in 8.1 and if they keep up their high quality of trolling, we will get StartMenu in 8.2. I use Win8 as my main OS for 7-8 months now with StartIsBack, never looked back and couldn't be happier! **** anyone who wants to force things on me, i do what i want, how i want it/like it.

tomasse said,
... never looked back and couldn't be happier! **** anyone who wants to force things on me, i do what i want, how i want it/like it.

I feel the same way. Hence Linux. The sheeple can keep being tied to commercial software. They don't know any better, after all.

Yeah, trollish. But really, Windows 8 has been an utter failure. In this thread alone, 70+ comments on the Start Button?! Good god, man. Microsoft will rue the day they totally destroyed a great desktop OS.

tomasse said,
The BUTTON is useless/worthless without the MENU, so we haven't actually been offered anything new here

Crowded old start menu sucked. Sorry.

You're clinging to something that's obsolete.

smot said,
Crowded old start menu sucked. Sorry.
You're clinging to something that's obsolete.

It's not obsolete in desktop. It's obsolete in metro, which i don't care and use.
If you find it obsolete in desktop, obviously you're not a 'heavy' user, while photoshopping, video-audio-photo-editing, etc is where it starts.
And no, surfing the internet, listening to music, watching movies etc. is not considered heavy use.

Edited by tomasse, Sep 12 2013, 3:26pm :

tomasse said,

It's not obsolete in desktop. It's obsolete in metro, which i don't care and use.
If you find it obsolete in desktop, obviously you're not a 'heavy' user, while photoshopping, video-audio-photo-editing, etc is where it starts.
And no, surfing the internet, listening to music, watching movies etc. is not considered heavy use.

Oh strange, I'm a heavy user and prefer the start screen over a start menu.
As a heavy user back in Win7 and before, I had a start menu with entries that went from top to bottom. Back in XP days or 95/98/ME days, there where up to 3 rows of start menu entries from top to bottom.... All with programs/games listed under the company name instead of the product name is not helping either. I always find the start menu a cluttered mess in a tiny window, to much info and menu's.

Windows Vista/7 changed a lot of it, winkey+start typing, to open applications or files.
This has not changed for Windows 8. And for some thing I don't even have to open applications to see some info, just tap the winkey and I can see my last email, last message received, weather and more. With just pressing one key. In Windows 7 with the desktop gadgets which did similar(but burned resources), I had to press winkey+D.

windows 8.1 is an absolutely fluent OS. I am running RTM and its flawless. they should have released 8.1 instead of 8 and then they could convince people to not to use start button. nevertheless, either way I think even controversial windows 8 in general is far superior OS compared to any other OS including Mac OS with the Exception of 8.1.
I just love my 8.1, its very productive and intuitive OS.

M$ dont understand that a start button with the old start menu its pretty USELESS...

Give an option for those who want it, previously windows use to be a very customizable OS for whatever people experience now they are forcing something that people just dont like on their desktops pc.....

There are NO ADVANTAGES in using METRO UI on other things that its not tablets or embedded devices, its bad at multitasking, its not productive as much as microsoft want it to be.

Time for another 180 microsoft, put the start menu back or at least HAVE A OPTION to set it whatever the user want it, wether they like start menu or not.

Have you actually tried using it? or even read why Microsoft added the new modern UI 'start screen'?

You should really try reading:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/arc...gning-the-start-screen.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/arc...volving-the-start-menu.aspx

Personally I have been using 8 since developer beta days, both at home and professionally and I actually like the new start screen and don't get why people complain about it having "no advantages" (like, being an advantage to only use a small % of your screen to find stuff? seriously?)

And in 8.1 the search even evolved, so its no longer a part of the modern UI, but a charm (Win + Q!!)

People seriously need to learn your shortcuts - and learn how the World have changed. The same trouble Microsoft had with the introduction of Windows 95, when your beloved Start menu was introduced. It was new, it was different, it was "horrible"..

Kenman said,

People seriously need to learn your shortcuts - and learn how the World have changed. The same trouble Microsoft had with the introduction of Windows 95, when your beloved Start menu was introduced. It was new, it was different, it was "horrible"..

Let's not compare those OS releases. The desktop hasn't changed much with Windows 95 to present, and WIn95 came with a video and "did you know" hints on startup. Windows 8 came with "move your mouse to the corner" and that's freakin it. 8.1 improves on this, but not by far -- you have to look for it. And finding out shortcuts is not very intuitive either.

Trust me it's not very much of a stretch to say that Microsoft has really lost touch with its customer base recently. You might disagree with me, but even those people who said win95 were horrible were completely eclipsed by the massive throngs of people lining up for release day parties and celebrations, of which I was part of. Windows 8 was met with a "meh" by comparison and even considered to be a cause of the PC sales decline. 8.1 has hope to recover that, but why do you think that is? Because they stuck to their guns on non-informative, grossly radical changes to the UI with no training or instruction? Sure, some people like it, but again, lets not compare radical changes to Windows 95. That one was 10x more effective at "selling the changes" than win8 ever was to the general public.

Whether you like the start button or not, using Windows 8 in a windowed VM (VMWare workstation, Fusion, hell even HyperV) is painful. You have to move the mouse to about 4 pixels on the corner of the window, and god forbid you go too far, etc. Corner tagging only works really well if the OS owns all the environments everywhere.

This coming from the company that knew full well if they didn't develop HyperV to handle virtualization environments they would lose a monumental amount of infrastructure, is kind of dumb.

So yeah, that's why they need a button. Because otherwise every virtualization environment should incorporate a Start and Options button on the OUTSIDE of the VM, and that's just messy.

If you use virtualization, you probably have some kind of IT Pro role, either as a systems administrator or a developer. You should really not ever depend on your mouse, as a sysadmin / developer - keyboard shortcuts is your friend, and always have been

check:
http://windows.microsoft.com/e...ws-8/new-keyboard-shortcuts

I run Server 2012 virtually for development purposes and even ran Windows 8 for a while, and I really don't have the same problems. I run it in Hyper-V though, but either use keyboard shortcuts or remote in, using my laptop.

Amazing! Maybe he should print this poster and place it near his desk... along with an Illustrator, Photoshop, Avid, Vegas, and all of the other programs that require these shortcut keys. Hopefully none will affect the other.

One step forward, two steps back. It doesn't matter either that most people are visual in nature. Have you ever seen a great instruction guide without images? That's what it sounds like you want. We should go back to DOS.

Kenman said,
If you use virtualization, you probably have some kind of IT Pro role, either as a systems administrator or a developer. You should really not ever depend on your mouse, as a sysadmin / developer - keyboard shortcuts is your friend, and always have been

I absolutely agree that keyboard shortcuts are a good thing, but interface is interface is interface. It seems like the answer to hot corners (sorry, using the apple term here since it really works better) is to use a keyboard shortcut, but that's hypocritical to the design of the entire OS. If we're in IT and we're to use keyboard, then the entire Windows Server 2012 start screen is pointless. It's designed minimally for mouse, at best, for a touch screen.

The point here ultimately is that keyboard shortcuts are an option. The start button was put in to offset the design decision to remove a target for those who actually use mice as an interface, which as a completely reasonable thing to do, given the entire UI design.

In a keyboard +MOUSE world, the MOUSE had a challenge to trigger the start screen without a better "target" to hit. It was unfair for us to have to hit pixels in a window. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant as just as windows is hacked to put the button in, people can take it out too. The bottom line is - Microsoft completely ignored those people who deal with the OS within a windowed environment and use mice.

I've never seen so much controversy over a stupid button before. I am glad they brought it back in 8.1 because it is a visible indicator where to click (or tap) for the start screen.

Why do you need a visible indicator on your screen, when you have the button on your keyboard/tablet as a physical button anyway?

Kenman said,
Why do you need a visible indicator on your screen, when you have the button on your keyboard/tablet as a physical button anyway?

I keep hearing this, and it always assumes the Windows desktop you are trying to manipulate is the physical device your are holding/sat at. Any SysAdmin will KWIM.

Out of curiosity, in which scenario do you need to click the startmenu, where you do not have access to a keyboard or a physical button, as a SysAdmin?

Kenman said,
Out of curiosity, in which scenario do you need to click the startmenu, where you do not have access to a keyboard or a physical button, as a SysAdmin?

Well, for one I would imagine tablet users would. Also, my desktop includes a touch display and I tap the start button all the time. I can browse the web and do a lot without touching the keyboard or mouse. My OP was more to get across the point that there is so much controversy over a simple button. In 8, people made programs to bring the button back. Now that we have it in 8.1, people are making programs to get rid of it. What exactly do people want? One thing I never liked about 8 was the fact that I had to move my mouse to the lower left of the screen to get to the start screen or use the keyboard. With 8.1, there is now a button which makes it much more obvious to less savvy users how to get to the start screen plus it makes it easier for touch users to access it.

Kenman said,
Out of curiosity, in which scenario do you need to click the startmenu, where you do not have access to a keyboard or a physical button, as a SysAdmin?

Citrix does not operate a remote desktop's Start Menu using the physical keyboard (not in my immediate environment, tho Citrix/RDP/VDI scenarios are many and varied). Therefore I appreciate a visible target.

It doesn't even make sense for the Start button to not be there.
Looks absolutely stupid with the empty space, and you have to move the mouse down to the corner anyways, to bring up the little start screen icon, and click on it.
Makes more sense to just click the button, derr.

I thought the thumbnail was better than a static button. It showed a live preview of what the user was going to click on. Now it's just a static windows logo again.

Kyang said,
I thought the thumbnail was better than a static button. It showed a live preview of what the user was going to click on. Now it's just a static windows logo again.

This preview was never "live". It was a static image representing the start screen

agtsmith said,

This preview was never "live". It was a static image representing the start screen

It reflected the actual layout of the tiles on the start screen. You're right though, it wasn't, "live".

It makes me smile that Microsoft didn't give people who dislike a start button a way to turn it off. How's it feel suckers!!!!!!!!!?!?!

Those same suckers gave people who actually wanted an option to turn the button back on a hard time telling use to adapt and if we couldn't then we couldn't handle change.

Well I guess people who need this application can't handle change!!!

We always told you guys to install third party utilities if you were unhappy with the default and there was no option. Well looks like someone made a utility for us people who do not want the start button. No big deal, bro.

We shouldn't have to install 3rd party programs for a simple feature that should've been included with an operating system.

Raa said,
We shouldn't have to install 3rd party programs for a simple feature that should've been included with an operating system.

Everyone has something they would like to see default in an OS. I think Win8 is bloated enough already as it is

Shadowzz said,

Everyone has something they would like to see default in an OS. I think Win8 is bloated enough already as it is

Agreed, MS could easily remove a lot of stuff to streamline the OS, leaving room to add features that people want.

Not near as many would mind a new UI if it simply worked better and felt more intuitive. MS once again dicked up a chance to do things right by ignoring what it's customers really wanted and asked for. If their dominance weren't so complete in the PC space, they wouldn't keep getting away with it. They really believe users are stupid and they should force feed their long range plans on them despite huge problems with usability. All this time and this is the best they could offer with 8.1? No, but it's all they were willing to do.

don't like a start button? stay on Windows 8.
do like a proper start menu? stay on Windows 7
don't give a **** because you're not a picking little child? use whatever you want.

Except, staying on either Windows 7 or Windows 8 completely removes the access to Hyper-V / Hyper-V 2nd gen. VMs, so that is not really an option.

Personally, I never understood why people need a button on the taskbar. You have the button on your keyboard / on your tablet - as a physical button - why do we need it on the screen aswel?

Btw, the "power features" are win+x, to access. Have been like that since Windows 8 RTM, though with 8.1 it adds multiple new features to it, such as restart/shutdown/...

The title is stupid. Argh, I'm so tired of this stupid, stupid fallacy. It's everywhere! "So now a new phone came out which has a 5" screen and it's too large, and you said it was too small with 4"! Boy, you're never happy!" YOU ARE TALKING TO TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS.

Yes, the title was probably not meant to be taken literally, but still. Ugh! Just stop.

Group A shares opinion X. They're happy with X.
Group B shares opinion Y. They're happy with Y.

An extremely common scenario.

This doesn't imply that Group A is never happy.
This doesn't imply that Group B is never happy.
And it certainly doesn't imply that NO ONE is ever happy.

Group A are those who liked the start button.
Group B are those who liked its removal.

And this is so, so very normal and nothing wrong and nothing annoying and nothing strange at all.

</rant>

Very normal indeed!
Now all MS has to do to appeal to both groups is present a simple configuration box that allows them to have "classic style" start button/menu, or "metro style" optional start button.

Noone can ever be happy? I'm sure having a button there was not what everyone had an issue with, it was more the full screen start screen with giant buttons - People wanted the old start menu back, not just a button.

Shaun said,
Noone can ever be happy? I'm sure having a button there was not what everyone had an issue with, it was more the full screen start screen with giant buttons - People wanted the old start menu back, not just a button.

It was a joke.

It is not at all that people cannot make up their minds or be happy. The problem is that when people asked for the start button back they wanted it to go to the menu. I guarantee that had MS done that.. there would be 0 complaints (aside from those who don't want the menu).

All MS had to do was give an option: Start Menu OR Start Screen. They didn't and that's where the problem lies.

This tool is very handy for those running 8.1 that don't want the start screen, this gives them the ability to install a 3rd party menu (startisback) without it overlaying the 8.1 start button.

The beauty of being on the PC side is that you have options. So, if this guy wants to write a program to do this, so be it. The bigger point to take away is that MS shouldn't get flamed for every little thing they do, because there will always be a percentage who are unhappy...even if they offered Windows for free.

On a tablet the start menu would have to either be so small you couldn't really use it properly, or so big it takes up the whole screen, obviously they would have had to go for the latter option, and at that point if your taking up the whole screen you might as well give it a new look that fits in with your new brand image which happens to be square tiles. I do not see why those who do not like it complain its evolution of a product, if MS decided to never change anything we would still have a task bar with every webpage taking up space, not a nice sleek design, we would still be using a windows 8 theme instead of something stylish, and games would still look like asteroid.

Get over it, and except that things change, you can use the system properly the way it is and if you actually take the time to properly learn your way around you would find it just as easy if not easier to use. And don't mention that people shouldn't have to learn it again, people have to learn new things all the time, when new software comes out with a different UI, when PCS upgraded from 3.1 to 95, 98 to XP, XP to Vista, each time they change their mobile etc, it really isn't a valid argument.

It would have been MUCH more worthwhile reading the "Start Button" if it had the functionality that it did from say, Windows 7.
The fact that it ONLY gets you back to the Windows 8 "Start Screen" is pretty useless. I can think of at least 3 other ways off the top of my head to get back to that "Start Screen" WITHOUT the need for a useless button down there. It worked fine the way it was in Windows 8. Adding this button does not do much unfortunately. They dropped the ball with this one.

Actually it was a much requested feature. If you have ever connected remotely to an 8 machine from a touch device, you'll know that it was almost impossible to access the start screen and hot corners on the remote PC without bringing it up on your own machine. Also users new to Windows 8 have no idea how to access the new start screen without any visual cue.

True. I use more keyboard shortcuts anyway but your point is still valid.
In any case, that is surely not the (main) reason why Microsoft has decided to put back the button...

AsherGZ said,
Actually it was a much requested feature. If you have ever connected remotely to an 8 machine from a touch device, you'll know that it was almost impossible to access the start screen and hot corners on the remote PC without bringing it up on your own machine. Also users new to Windows 8 have no idea how to access the new start screen without any visual cue.

You made a valid point there, except I think most people don't actually care about the start button itself. The #1 requested feature for Win8 was the start menu. It was pretty obvious too considering the lukewarm response to the return of the start button, when they realised it links back to the start screen and not the feature they really wanted. The problem lies in the fact when people refer to the start button, 9/10 times they actually imply the start menu as well. I think it's more then possible MS completely misunderstood and just thought people wanted the button. That is my 2 cents anyway, take with a grain of salt.

Xerxes said,

You made a valid point there, except I think most people don't actually care about the start button itself. The #1 requested feature for Win8 was the start menu. It was pretty obvious too considering the lukewarm response to the return of the start button, when they realised it links back to the start screen and not the feature they really wanted. The problem lies in the fact when people refer to the start button, 9/10 times they actually imply the start menu as well. I think it's more then possible MS completely misunderstood and just thought people wanted the button. That is my 2 cents anyway, take with a grain of salt.

With all the outcry about killing the Start Menu, it was always clear to Microsoft that a lot of people wanted it back. However given how much planning and resources went into the direction in which Microsoft is headed with Windows 8 and that the future of the company depends on, that was not an option. They had to do something to stay in the game and compete with Google and Apple in the changing PC market and this was their answer. It's not their fault people are not ready to accept change. Bringing back the Start button was something they could compromise with without breaking the whole metro environment. But the Start screen and other metro features aren't going anywhere no matter how much people whine. In fact we may see more even more metrofication in Windows in coming years.

Why is it important to have a little windows image? You could always click the lower left corner to bring the start screen up, not where is a windows icon wasting precious space on my 1366x768 tablet.

MS should of given an option to turn this off. I doubt it would of been that hard to do.

I am willing to bet there will be more replacement start menus, than removals tho.

then people would just use the desktop and not the UI they worked so hard to create just like the Kinect people aren't going to just buy it so include it that way it gives developers the assurance that people will have the Kinect and the Modern UI

Raa said,
MS should've given the option to turn the Start Menu on as well... Nobody can be happy it seems!

Yes, they should have. Historically MS have always given users the option to choose what they wanted (e.g. Win95 gave explorer/program manager and WinXP gave Luna/Classic etc) so it makes no sense they did not this time. I would of thought the start menu would've been an option for at least Win8 and 9 before they phased it out completely, giving users a chance to get used to the new way. I suspect it's a mistake the new CEO might correct in the future too.

I think his point is that the program will remove the official start button so users can then install a more functional start menu of their choice.

I quite like the start screen it looks cool especially now that you can have desktop wallpaper but it takes time to set-up just the way you want it and on balance I prefer a start menu.

I don't think that was his point at all. If anything, it highlights the simple fact that people weren't given a choice the first time (8.0) and they're not again (8.1).

Give people a choice. It's really not that hard.

With Ballmer on the way out, I suspect they will split Win9 into two versions. "Win9 Tablet Edition" which will essentially be what Win8 is now and "Win9 Professional Edition" which will have Modern UI stripped from it and start menu reinstated. I have no problem with the start screen but it's pretty obvious it has to come back. Business are avoiding it like the plague and average users dislike it as well.

Xerxes said,
With Ballmer on the way out, I suspect they will split Win9 into two versions. "Win9 Tablet Edition" which will essentially be what Win8 is now and "Win9 Professional Edition" which will have Modern UI stripped from it and start menu reinstated. I have no problem with the start screen but it's pretty obvious it has to come back. Business are avoiding it like the plague and average users dislike it as well.

Exactly what 8 should have been like in the first place!

Xerxes said,
I suspect they will split Win9 into two versions. "Win9 Tablet Edition" which will essentially be what Win8 is now and "Win9 Professional Edition" which will have Modern UI stripped from it and start menu reinstated

I have a bad presentiment about this, they'll persist with one OS good for everything principle. It's as if they can't go back, and the future of their business rely on selling apps online. Ultimately they want to ditch "regular apps", and go full metro (several clues given by the propaganda done here, and the "fans" of windows 8).

bigmehdi said,

I have a bad presentiment about this, they'll persist with one OS good for everything principle. It's as if they can't go back, and the future of their business rely on selling apps online. Ultimately they want to ditch "regular apps", and go full metro (several clues given by the propaganda done here, and the "fans" of windows 8).

The market isn't buying it though. What is it something like 1% of Windows 8 users actually use Metro apps and the Store.

People don't buy PCs to be in a walled garden.

Xerxes said,
With Ballmer on the way out, I suspect they will split Win9 into two versions. "Win9 Tablet Edition" which will essentially be what Win8 is now and "Win9 Professional Edition" which will have Modern UI stripped from it and start menu reinstated. I have no problem with the start screen but it's pretty obvious it has to come back. Business are avoiding it like the plague and average users dislike it as well.

Aka Windows RT and Windows 8

Windows RT is limited... but Windows 8 is not. It can do EVERYTHING that Windows 7 could and it can do even more.

MidTxWRX said,

Aka Windows RT and Windows 8

Windows RT is limited... but Windows 8 is not. It can do EVERYTHING that Windows 7 could and it can do even more.

He means with a practical, usable interface. Not one that has giant menus taking up the entire right 20% of the screen just to display 3 options.

Xerxes said,
With Ballmer on the way out, I suspect they will split Win9 into two versions. "Win9 Tablet Edition" which will essentially be what Win8 is now and "Win9 Professional Edition" which will have Modern UI stripped from it and start menu reinstated. I have no problem with the start screen but it's pretty obvious it has to come back. Business are avoiding it like the plague and average users dislike it as well.

It's already been said that Microsoft will continue with the Modern vision on the desktop for Windows 9. Many just upgraded to 7, they're not going to upgrade again so soon. Besides, Windows 8 is selling well, and many are looking forward to 8.1.

Keep it up though, maybe they'll go the full 9 yards, and strip out the ribbon UI, and reinstate Clippy... Because why not? Who needs forward process, when you can simply stagnate?

Haha this would be a terrible idea. I love that my desktop can run the metro apps and games. I use Netflix and Halo Spartan Assault on my 30" desktop. I love that my convertible tablet PC can run both desktop and metro apps.

Splitting the OS would ruin everything that makes Windows 8 great.

Lord Method Man said,

He means with a practical, usable interface. Not one that has giant menus taking up the entire right 20% of the screen just to display 3 options.

Weird... I have Windows 8 Pro on my work computer and I havent seen the Start Screen with its giant menus in about 3 months. Even when I have... I dont seen it as an issue.

MidTxWRX said,
Windows RT is limited... but Windows 8 is not. It can do EVERYTHING that Windows 7 could and it can do even more.

except give you a start menu, and be usable, and be something people want to buy!

dvb2000 said,

except give you a start menu, and be usable, and be something people want to buy!

Who needs a Start Menu? For what?

I bought a Surface RT on launch day. I'm running 8.1 right now. Fawking love it.

Is it just me or is this start button a complete waste of time? I mean the functionality was always there, but you had to click in the bottom left of the screen...just now you can click slightly NEAR the bottom left?

For me, I can live with or without. I don't use it much really (maybe because I don't use win8 as my main OS?)

Neobond said,
No sir.

Wow this is terrible, the current task bar is better why would they add a stupid button that takes up more space when you can over to the bottom left and access start that way...

Dear Microsoft, People wanted the actual start menu back not a button.

Neobond said,
This calls for mass protests in my opinion. WHO IS WITH ME!

I AGREE! BRING BACK THE START MENU!!

Oh wait, wrong protest...

Make up your minds already. First you want it back, now you don't?

In Windows 8.2, they should make a start button that appears half of the time and disappears when you need it.

Because everyone shares one opinion. It should have been an option to begin with... I hate having to install tools to achieve something that should have so obviously been a checkbox in a Windows configuration window.

Bamsebjørn said,
Because everyone shares one opinion. It should have been an option to begin with... I hate having to install tools to achieve something that should have so obviously been a checkbox in a Windows configuration window.

Microsoft would never have achieved the level of unification they wanted without the removal of the old Start Menu. And even if they left it in, people would have still complained like they are now since Microsoft is focused on developing for the Metro UI.

Bamsebjørn said,
Because everyone shares one opinion. It should have been an option to begin with... I hate having to install tools to achieve something that should have so obviously been a checkbox in a Windows configuration window.

This!

Enron said,
Make up your minds already. First you want it back, now you don't?

In Windows 8.2, they should make a start button that appears half of the time and disappears when you need it.

What? People want the start MENU back not the button itself rofl... Clicking on the button in 8.1 takes you to the metro start page which isn't the thing people want.
did you not read the article?

Oh wow AGAIN with this? The start menu was the single part of the OS "holding technology back"?

What the hell is so horrible about having the installer detect if it is on a computer and install the code for the start menu?

Guess what. There will never be 100% unification. They should have left the desktop portion alone. Everybody would have been happy if they did that.

onionjuice said,

What? People want the start MENU back not the button itself rofl... Clicking on the button in 8.1 takes you to the metro start page which isn't the thing people want.


yeah, as if Microsoft was trolling people.
Or saying: you want the start menu ,? well now it's called the metro start page.
They are trying hard until you swallow the pill ...

xWhiplash said,
Oh wow AGAIN with this? The start menu was the single part of the OS "holding technology back"?

What the hell is so horrible about having the installer detect if it is on a computer and install the code for the start menu?

Guess what. There will never be 100% unification. They should have left the desktop portion alone. Everybody would have been happy if they did that.

Because the Start Screen isn't touch only? Because you can still use a mouse on Windows 8? Because Microsoft wanted to move in a new direction? Multiple reasons, bro.

just get over it people Modern UI is the Future of Microsoft products it is not going anywhere don't like it quit complaining and just stick with windows 7

Devmer11 said,
just get over it people Modern UI is the Future of Microsoft products it is not going anywhere don't like it quit complaining and just stick with windows 7

eh I wouldn't say so, just like aero... someone at MS will get bored with it and decide to go a different route in a couple versions... you know they already have new UI's planned for future versions right now that they are going over and tweaking around to test out eventually

neufuse said,

eh I wouldn't say so, just like aero... someone at MS will get bored with it and decide to go a different route in a couple versions... you know they already have new UI's planned for future versions right now that they are going over and tweaking around to test out eventually

I think the point is that the "desktop" is on the way out either way. I still expect a full merging of the 2 UIs and that they'll keep some area in Windows 9 or 10 that will be for running multiple apps in windows etc. That might only show up when you're not on a touch device and have a KB+mouse connected though.

Either way the old UI we've had for 20+ years is starting to go little by little.

With a new CEO inbound anything could happen now. Considering the massive outcry from businesses and users alike for the return of the start menu, there is a good chance the new CEO *could* decide to overrule the Windows team and order it back. I'm not saying it will be back, just that anything is possible. Personally I am happy with how Win8 is but I'm a minority and the majority want it back.

AGREED.. Star Menu is Gone. No NEW CEO in his right mind brings it back. People need to look at the direction of technology. I guarantee Microsoft and others have some cool stuff cooking up MS Labs. The only way for us to get it is for changes to happen.

MS has tried to push Touch for 12 years. It never happened until CApple brought out the iCrap. Now touch is hear to stay. THe Interface had to be changed from the Start menu.

Now with the MS Kinect, MS can bring us the stuff from Hackers, Minority Report, Avatar or Avengers. Again you can not do this with a Start Menu.

I guess if Microsoft doesn't want to listen to customers and watch their Windows sales continue to plummet and their tablets continue to battle Wii U in terms of sales then they should just "stick to the course."

Xerxes said,
just that anything is possible. Personally I am happy with how Win8 is but I'm a minority and the majority want it back.

Why not give the user a choice ? I know MS is trying hard these days to be the new Apple. And i know MS fanboys are trying very hard to be the next iSheep. But as a longtime MS products lover i'm missing the old geeky Microsoft where people had the choice to do whatever they wanted with their computer. Would it be that hard for now to give to the people the option to have the old start menu or not? Kinda like in XP you could use the old start menu or the new one.

Edited by LaP, Sep 12 2013, 1:52pm :

MikadoWu said,
AGREED.. Star Menu is Gone. No NEW CEO in his right mind brings it back. People need to look at the direction of technology. I guarantee Microsoft and others have some cool stuff cooking up MS Labs. The only way for us to get it is for changes to happen.

MS has tried to push Touch for 12 years.

MS is not even close to build a good touch interface for a productive environment. Until then MS should support the old ways and not shovel some half assed touch UI down the throat of professional.

Metro for tablet.
Old desktop and start menu for desktop computer.

Let people make their own choice.

GP007 said,


Either way the old UI we've had for 20+ years is starting to go little by little.

Unless MS improves metro and metro apps A LOT then i'll have to switch to either Linux or Mac OS. It's gonna be a sad day. MS has a lot of work to do.

LaP said,

Unless MS improves metro and metro apps A LOT then i'll have to switch to either Linux or Mac OS.

Same. You can't convince people that something is "the future" by repeatedly screaming into their face. That's not how innovations happen. The market can reject it anyway.

Devmer11 said,
just get over it people Modern UI is the Future of Microsoft products it is not going anywhere don't like it quit complaining and just stick with windows 7

Why this abomination is future. It is not future of technology but MS can make its future and it does not look very bright.

GP007 said,

I think the point is that the "desktop" is on the way out either way. I still expect a full merging of the 2 UIs and that they'll keep some area in Windows 9 or 10 that will be for running multiple apps in windows etc. That might only show up when you're not on a touch device and have a KB+mouse connected though.

Either way the old UI we've had for 20+ years is starting to go little by little.

Do you see Maya or Lightwave running on the Metro interface? How about any professional software program? I don't.

Pulagatha said,

Do you see Maya or Lightwave running on the Metro interface? How about any professional software program? I don't.

Never say never.

Dot Matrix said,

Never say never.

There is always some one fast and better to cater the demand of Market. If MS does not listen to what majority of consumer wants then some one else will fill the vacuum.

Visual activity is so 90's. Let's do it like government... if 95% want something one way, let's do it the other way because the 5% wants it. We need to expand the minds of the narrow minded majority. They can always buy a plotter for a shortcut poster.

Patrick Danielson said,
Visual activity is so 90's. Let's do it like government... if 95% want something one way, let's do it the other way because the 5% wants it. We need to expand the minds of the narrow minded majority. They can always buy a plotter for a shortcut poster.

What are you smoking right now as you are making no sense at all. What makes you think that majority wants plotter even if its just kind of correlation you are using. Market is there to cater demand of people not other way around as people like you who thinks majority are fools. Even if they are, then you provide them what they want rather than forcing them and loosing sales.

I am sure people in MS management have similar philosphy like you and that is very evident from their sales number. MS will never be able to move away from number 3 position in tablet market which a meagre less than 10% sales in a same way they yet to have break 20% barrier in the search market. Now their sneaky plan to deceive user to use bing in Win 8.1 is another sneaky ploy to increase their search.

I simply don't get why people miss the start menu so much. It only showed 5-9 applications the system thinks are most used and everything else was buried under a hierarchy of folders and many clicks and scrolls.
Menus don't make any sense in modern computers, they are a paradigm inherited from the times we operated computers with keyboards and arrows. Starting with the mouse and moving onto touch the better paradigm is icons or tiles, displayed on a horizontal plane, just like the monitors are horizontal, and maximizing the use of modern screen resolutions. Minimize the need for clicks and put the info in front of your eyes faster. And that's exactly what the Start Screen is.
I blame tech blogs and MS haters for divulging hate for the start screen when it is the tech savvy people that should understand better a computer UI that offers a more efficient, scalable and elegant solution to the never ending problem of organizing and finding applications.

Auditor said,
Now their sneaky plan to deceive user to use bing in Win 8.1 is another sneaky ploy to increase their search.

I don't mind another service being there to keep Google in check as well.

LaP said,

MS is not even close to build a good touch interface for a productive environment. Until then MS should support the old ways and not shovel some half assed touch UI down the throat of professional.

Metro for tablet.
Old desktop and start menu for desktop computer.

Let people make their own choice.

Microsoft has one of the best touch environments on the market. I know of no other OS that can multitask like Windows 8.1 does.

Auditor said,

There is always some one fast and better to cater the demand of Market. If MS does not listen to what majority of consumer wants then some one else will fill the vacuum.

And what's that? A stagnating desktop only UI? How is Microsoft going to get anywhere by clinging on to Windows' past, while the market moves in new directions?

Dot Matrix said,

And what's that? A stagnating desktop only UI? How is Microsoft going to get anywhere by clinging on to Windows' past, while the market moves in new directions?

There is difference in market segment one is consumption market and another is content creation and productive market. Desktop is necessary for second group people. The reason desktop is stagnating because people in first category do not necessarily need to be in second segment market. But there will always be need for second segment market because without them there won't be any content to consume.

If MS abandons the second segment market in favor of consumption market then I am sure some one will come along to fill the gap. So MS can continue downgrading desktop in favor of their tablet crap but some one will definitely come out with far better product than them. It might seems inconceivable today but thats what people thought about IBM in 1980s.

Auditor said,

There is difference in market segment one is consumption market and another is content creation and productive market. Desktop is necessary for second group people. The reason desktop is stagnating because people in first category do not necessarily need to be in second segment market. But there will always be need for second segment market because without them there won't be any content to consume.

If MS abandons the second segment market in favor of consumption market then I am sure some one will come along to fill the gap. So MS can continue downgrading desktop in favor of their tablet crap but some one will definitely come out with far better product than them. It might seems inconceivable today but thats what people thought about IBM in 1980s.

That doesn't make any sense considering the desktop UI is still included with Windows 8/8.1. Eventually those people will move as the tools are converted to the new environment, and as the new environment continues to mature. Just look at the CLI environment that many clung to like a life vest in the 80's, and look at that today, who still uses the CLI outside of an IT department?

Charles Keledjian said,
I simply don't get why people miss the start menu so much. It only showed 5-9 applications the system thinks are most used and everything else was buried under a hierarchy of folders and many clicks and scrolls.
Menus don't make any sense in modern computers, they are a paradigm inherited from the times we operated computers with keyboards and arrows. Starting with the mouse and moving onto touch the better paradigm is icons or tiles, displayed on a horizontal plane, just like the monitors are horizontal, and maximizing the use of modern screen resolutions. Minimize the need for clicks and put the info in front of your eyes faster. And that's exactly what the Start Screen is.
I blame tech blogs and MS haters for divulging hate for the start screen when it is the tech savvy people that should understand better a computer UI that offers a more efficient, scalable and elegant solution to the never ending problem of organizing and finding applications.

Finally, thank you for stating because this is exactly what I've been thinking for awhile. I understood the argument about bring back the button, but not for bringing back the menu.

When you boil this down, the start screen is just a better start menu, that's it at its core. If MS would have just came out and said this is a new start menu/replacement maybe everyone could wrap their heads around this change? Those who are a vengeance to switch OS's just for removing the start menu, I don't get. You still stay on the desktop most of the time and even that is improved.

Who knows if Metro will take over, but in terms of functionality, the start screen is much better than the menu. The only criticism I've heard on why people can't handle the start screen is because of the shutdown button location. I get that, completely. All other criticisms seem to be they hate Modern UI, and I say so what? With a start menu you had an icon that could be buried between layers of folders. Now you have an entire screen that gives you visible feedback. The promise of the Modern UI isn't here yet, you still have the desktop and a fancier start menu, why is this bad?

So my question is to those that really hate this, is why? If the start screen does more, has more space, etc. then why do you hate it?

Charles Keledjian said,
I simply don't get why people miss the start menu so much. It only showed 5-9 applications the system thinks are most used and everything else was buried under a hierarchy of folders and many clicks and scrolls.
Menus don't make any sense in modern computers, they are a paradigm inherited from the times we operated computers with keyboards and arrows. Starting with the mouse and moving onto touch the better paradigm is icons or tiles, displayed on a horizontal plane, just like the monitors are horizontal, and maximizing the use of modern screen resolutions. Minimize the need for clicks and put the info in front of your eyes faster. And that's exactly what the Start Screen is.

Nicely said.

Dot Matrix said,

That doesn't make any sense considering the desktop UI is still included with Windows 8/8.1. Eventually those people will move as the tools are converted to the new environment, and as the new environment continues to mature. Just look at the CLI environment that many clung to like a life vest in the 80's, and look at that today, who still uses the CLI outside of an IT department?

You are looking at very short term prospect. Yes, Desktop is included right now but getting less priority from MS to make any improvement on Desktop and MS intention is very creation that they want to get rid of Desktop. The only reason they are doing this because they want to follow Apple model and wants to sell Apps through their store and have more control on consumers.

The people are resisting this move because currently they are getting affected by this given Monopoly of MS in Desktop. If people had much wider option then no body would have cared what MS doing as they woudn't have bought the product if they did not like it. Just look at Xbone, they don't have as much Monopoly as they have in Desktop and people had alternative to use PS3 .

MS saw it coming that they are doomed with their draconian policies of Xbone and they can't arm twist people in Xbone as they could right now on desktop and PC. So they were forced to change their policy. Sinofsky and Ballmer are getting kicked out of MS becuase of the same reason that they got arrogant and lost the direction to fulfill demand of people. How hard it wll be MS to make a different OS for their tablet and do all their experiment there. If people like that they would buy it but if don't then they won't.

The reason MS did not provide Metro as add-on like WMC because they knew no one will bother to use that even if given free as that product does not stand itself on any merit. But as I said before, when MS eventually abandon Desktop altogether or degrade significantly then there will be always some other company with some other revolutionary product. Everything which goes up eventually comes down and it's MS turn as it is currently on suicidal path.

What did Microsoft expect, installing a "half arsed" button, that only takes you back to the Metro screen you were trying to get away from was NEVER going to please the people would want their "start menu" back - YES THE WHOLE THING, not just the stupid button.

Auditor said,

What are you smoking right now as you are making no sense at all. What makes you think that majority wants plotter even if its just kind of correlation you are using. Market is there to cater demand of people not other way around as people like you who thinks majority are fools. Even if they are, then you provide them what they want rather than forcing them and loosing sales.

I am sure people in MS management have similar philosphy like you and that is very evident from their sales number. MS will never be able to move away from number 3 position in tablet market which a meagre less than 10% sales in a same way they yet to have break 20% barrier in the search market. Now their sneaky plan to deceive user to use bing in Win 8.1 is another sneaky ploy to increase their search.

Dude your sarcasm sensor is not working.

He actually makes a good point. It happens all the time in web design, for example. Some guy thinks his design is the greatest, so a company wipes out their perfectly usable site just to please a tiny design team who don't care what the public wants. Look at Dell's site and compare it to how easy it used to be to find and configure a PC. What a freakin mess.

frett said,

Dude your sarcasm sensor is not working.

He actually makes a good point. It happens all the time in web design, for example. Some guy thinks his design is the greatest, so a company wipes out their perfectly usable site just to please a tiny design team who don't care what the public wants. Look at Dell's site and compare it to how easy it used to be to find and configure a PC. What a freakin mess.

Dude, I just had to see what the new website looked like. It is awful. That Metro style wouldn't be half bad if people were tedious about it. But they never are. I think they should go back to how it looked and slightly tweak that, instead. This website seems like it was designed to purposely confuse the customer. And thus, annoy them and have them choose a computer from a different manufacturer.

GP007 said,

I think the point is that the "desktop" is on the way out either way.

I dunno. I honestly don't know anyone who has Windows 8 on a laptop or desktop that uses the Modern UI except for some games. It just doesn't make sense on a normal computer.

People like to see all the things they have open, they like to be able to see the time, to see what's behind the program they currently have open, to be able to resize windows however they want, to have multiple browser windows open etc. among many other benefits.

The desktop is far from death.

Dot Matrix said,

Oh Christ, the 90's called, and wanted its argument back.

So this is your argument then, if something is old then we should not do it. As you mean then wheel had been invented thousand years old and it was in circle shape, so now we should be start marking it square because circle design is so old. Jeez.. it never amuses me enough the logic of Metrotards.

Auditor said,

So this is your argument then, if something is old then we should not do it. As you mean then wheel had been invented thousand years old and it was in circle shape, so now we should be start marking it square because circle design is so old. Jeez.. it never amuses me enough the logic of Metrotards.

You used irrelevant arguments in your post - "monopoly", "XBone", "draconian policies", "arrogant", etc. Typical words used by trolls to solicit a nasty response, and not someone interested in actual intelligent conversation. Sorry, you loose.

I don't think saying "the 90's called and wants their argument back" is helping either. Can everybody just agree that both desktop and mobile have good qualities and that they have a lot of potential?

LaP said,

Let people make their own choice.

You do have a choice...Windows or Mac or Linux. At the end of the day its their product and they can drive in any direction they see fit. You don't like it, don't use it (see above for alternatives. 1 of which has no start menu either!)