Windows Blue confirmed in new Microsoft job listings

Before Windows 8 even launched, Windows Blue was rumored to be an update to Microsoft's new operating system. More recently, however, it was rumored Windows Blue wouldn't just be an update to Windows 8, but an update that would impact many of Microsoft's products and services. Now ZDNet's Mary Jo Foley has discovered job listings that both confirm Windows Blue's existence and validate those rumors.

In a new Windows Division job listing specifically mentions the update in its first paragraph. According to the job listing, Windows Blue will improve the user interface of Windows 8 and Windows RT, which corroborates previous rumors about the update. The first paragraph of the listing – which is the only part that refers to Windows Blue – is as follows:

We’re looking for an excellent, experienced SDET to join the Core Experience team in Windows Sustained Engineering (WinSE). The Core Experience features are the centerpiece of the new Windows UI, representing most of what customers touch and see in the OS, including: the start screen; application lifecycle; windowing; and personalization. Windows Blue promises to build and improve upon these aspects of the OS, enhancing ease of use and the overall user experience on devices and PCs worldwide.

A separate job listing, for Microsoft's Office Division, notes that the company is developing a new Excel app for Windows Phone Blue. No new information is given about Windows Phone Blue in the job listing, however, beyond the brief mention:

As a development lead you will hire and manage a team of top-notch developers, be personally involved in designing and coding features, and work closely with PM and Test counterparts across multiple orgs to help realize the vision of building high quality excel app for Windows Phone Blue. In partnership with the Excel MX, Data Visualization and Excel Web Services team your team will be responsible to develop a common code enabling us to build a mobile app which will (1) allow users to have a consistent experience with spreadsheets across Web, Slate and Phone end while leveraging the power of the cloud (Excel Web Services, Office Client Services, SkyDrive and O365).

As Foley noted in her article, Excel MX is likely a version of Excel specifically designed for touch interfaces, similar to the Metro-style OneNote app currently available in the Windows Store. That app was previously known as OneNote MX.

Previous rumors indicated Windows Blue would be released sometime this year and that it would be optimized for 7- and 8-inch tablets, a form factor Windows 8 and Windows RT has not yet been seen in. Originally it was thought the update would be akin to a service pack, although more recently it's been speculated Microsoft plans on updating its operating systems more frequently. While it wouldn't be Windows 9, it would include many new features and interface changes, unlike most service packs.

Neowin's sources have indicated one aspect of the update will be more UI flexibility and customization. Start screen tiles, for instance, will have more sizes to choose from, similar to Windows Phone 8's interface. Additionally, more colors and backgrounds are said to be available for the Start screen.

Source: Microsoft via ZDNet

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Hoping for removed restrictions with Metro apps and the Start Screen with multiple monitors. I should be able to use Metro apps on multiple monitors and shouldn't get a screen kicked to the desktop because I clicked a link in a metro app on another monitor.

That would be nice. I use Windows 8 on my laptop and I also project it on my TV and it would be nice to use Modern (not Metro) apps on multiple monitors except for just one.

they predict it could be released by summer and they still hiring more people my assumption q4 2013 of-course i know nothing compared to microsoft so i hope they are correct

As mentioned in a previous post and the article, this is a Tester position, not a developer one. IMO, the development is almost complete and they need people to do comprehensive testing. In other words, looks like they are almost ready for a summer release.

Because obviously not a single person bought a windows 8 copy. /S

Seriously, can we please NOT have this same old "I want my start menu back" thing on every single windows 8 related article.

After using it for nearly half a month I have managed to get by without the start menu. After a few days I actually think it's better without it. I just place all my favorite programs on the desktop as shortcuts, even links to computer and everything. And I have made batch files to quickly shutdown/restart windows.

There are also plenty of 3rd party programs to install the start menu. But I kind of like it without it, it's good to try different things and organise work flow in a different way can make it more efficient. Also I love how my computer boots up in six seconds, windows 7 was slower. I can not see the start menu ever returning, that is until they stop manufacturing touch devices. My next monitor will be touch screen.

Orange Battery said,


I started to do that but then it just reminded me of my old clutterd desktop that I used to have in the old days. Start Page needs much more.

I think they could let you have real folders in the start page, one double wide tile that has other tiles in it like a hub. Or they could just let you be able to expand and minimize the groups you make.

GP007 said,

I think they could let you have real folders in the start page, one double wide tile that has other tiles in it like a hub. Or they could just let you be able to expand and minimize the groups you make.

Having folders isn't a bad idea, as long as it's just one level deep. Folder-in-folder will turn into a huge mess in no time.

Your second idea is better and actually pretty interesting and will work much better for the metro UI. Perhaps you should present it to MS.

torrentthief said,
just give us the option to bring back the start menu and people will buy it.

I used windows 8 for a couple months then reinstalled win7......windows 7 lasted roughly 1week on my main computer. Hands down windows 8 is better. It's then I realized how weak the start menu is. I can't understand what's the whole big fuss about

Edited by Eric, Feb 17 2013, 3:55pm :

You're free to install any of a number of start menu replacements. You're free to use a different shell entirely, even use the Windows 7 shell under Windows 8. Microsoft even says you're free to downgrade back to Windows 7 (or even Vista) if it bothers you that bad. You're free to complain all you want, but look how well that worked out for the 7 whiners who wanted the XP menu (or even ye olde 2000 menu) back. It didn't. The ones who absolutely flat out hated the newer start menu dealt with it and moved on.

eddman said,

You can pin your desktop programs, folders, etc. to start screen, like I did.

http://i.imgur.com/UrUfk9K.jpg


Just pinning the regular icons on the start screen makes it seem cluttered. What Microsoft really needs to do is to add functionality so you can easily pin an application there with a proper tile image.

Here I have made Spotify, Notepad++, Wireshark, Firefox and Chrome tiles with OblyTile, I hope this functionality will be part of the OS with Blue:
http://sdrv.ms/W1PROZ

Sadelwo said,

Why did you pin the control panel icon? You could just right click in the start corner and get it.

I sort of tried to mimic the start menu, but you have a point there; a good one.

Lamp Post said,

What Microsoft really needs to do is to add functionality so you can easily pin an application there with a proper tile image.

Which will make it much harder to distinguish between the metro apps and the desktop ones.

Full tile -> Metro app
Icon inside tile -> Desktop application

Max Norris said,
but look how well that worked out for the 7 whiners who wanted the XP menu (or even ye olde 2000 menu) back.

That was a thing?

Dot Matrix said,
That was a thing?

Yup, drama over that menu too. Complainers whining about its removal, others justifying why it was done, lots of 'expert' opinions that don't really add anything.. same crap, different build number.. after hearing the same thing over and over for the past few years I just try and tune it out, sometimes successfully. Just a few random examples pulled via Bing.
http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...ic-start-menu-in-windows-7/ (23 pages worth.)
http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...n-windows-7-with-this-tool/
http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...the-xp-start-menu-in-vista/


Max Norris said,

Yup, drama over that menu too. Complainers whining about its removal, others justifying why it was done, lots of 'expert' opinions that don't really add anything.. same crap, different build number.. after hearing the same thing over and over for the past few years I just try and tune it out, sometimes successfully. Just a few random examples pulled via Bing.
http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...ic-start-menu-in-windows-7/ (23 pages worth.)
http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...n-windows-7-with-this-tool/
http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...the-xp-start-menu-in-vista/


... Wow.

(These threads look awfully familiar too. )

There is the "Pin to Taskbar" option. I have the following pinned:

File Explorer
Chrome
Opera
IE
Skype
Visual Studio
Snipping Tool
Outlook 2013
Word
Excel
Project
Visio
OneNote
Publisher

Don't need the Start Menu or the Start screen.

torrentthief said,
just give us the option to bring back the start menu and people will buy it.

Start screen is way better than that dirty old start menu

Orange Battery said
I started to do that but then it just reminded me of my old clutterd desktop that I used to have in the old days. Start Page needs much more.
Yeah, but at least with the Start Screen not everything is all on one screen, and you can put everything into different groups and also be able to name the groups.

Ben920 said,

Start screen is way better than that dirty old start menu

You're saying the Start screen is not dirty? If you don't constantly keep sorting and organizing it yourself, it gets unbelievably dirty as you install programs. Early-on I tried to keep some organization to it, but eventually I just quit since I don't use it much.

Just a quick example of the Start screen poor design, right now if I hit my Start button, one of the randomly scattered tiles is simply named "Uninstall" and it has an icon of a trash can.

Lamp Post said
What Microsoft really needs to do is to add functionality so you can easily pin an application there with a proper tile image.
Well I would think that the tile image for the application would be the developers responsibility. If they make an application, then shouldn't they add their own proper tile image. Of course, I like the application because it makes the tiles look a lot better.

Chugworth said
You're saying the Start screen is not dirty? If you don't constantly keep sorting and organizing it yourself, it gets unbelievably dirty as you install programs. Early-on I tried to keep some organization to it, but eventually I just quit since I don't use it much.

Just a quick example of the Start screen poor design, right now if I hit my Start button, one of the randomly scattered tiles is simply named "Uninstall" and it has an icon of a trash can.

Well that seems to be more of a personal issue, rather than an issue with the Start Screen. The Start Screen is better because you have the opportunity to organize all your apps/folders inside different groups, and you can also name the groups. With the Start Menu you can only pin a certain amount of programs and you it takes more time to find programs because everything is in small folders and if you move your mouse too fast, it can get frustrating to use. I've found that with the Start Screen I can organize, find, and open my programs a lot better and faster than with the Start Menu.

Edited by dtourond, Feb 17 2013, 7:36am :

dtourond said,
Well that seems to be more of a personal issue, rather than an issue with the Start Screen.

Uh...what? It's not a personal issue that installing software causes all sorts of random ass junk to be applied to the Start Screen. That's quite simply put, a design flaw. I've experienced it as well. I shouldn't HAVE to waste time cleaning up crap that's been thrown on that screen without my consent or my specific instruction to do so. This is the reason there are so many rampant fanboy accusations being tossed around when it comes to any discussion regarding Windows 8. This attitude specifically. If something isn't working correctly and or doesn't function as it properly should, immediately it's the user's fault.

dtourond said,
Well that seems to be more of a personal issue, rather than an issue with the Start Screen. The Start Screen is better because you have the opportunity to organize all your apps/folders inside different groups, and you can also name the groups. With the Start Menu you can only pin a certain amount of programs and you it takes more time to find programs because everything is in small folders and if you move your mouse too fast, it can get frustrating to use. I've found that with the Start Screen I can organize, find, and open my programs a lot better and faster than with the Start Menu.

But I don't want to spend time organizing and naming groups! The old Start menu's "All Programs" list was already organized and named. To get to the equivalent in the new Start screen, I have to right-click the screen and choose "All apps" (and with the way it's hidden like many items in Windows 8, most users would have no clue it even exists). But then when you click "All apps", the horrible mess of icons that appears in your face all at once is almost scary. The old Start menu gave a handy search bar for finding things (true, Windows 8 does give you a hidden one), and a short list of my commonly accessed programs.

But to be honest, Windows 8 has altered my habits. Now days I rarely access Start for anything (which I don't think is exactly what Microsoft had in mind).

nekkidtruth said,
Uh...what? It's not a personal issue that installing software causes all sorts of random ass junk to be applied to the Start Screen. That's quite simply put, a design flaw. I shouldn't HAVE to waste time cleaning up crap that's been thrown on that screen without my consent or my specific instruction to do so.

Seriously? You're bothered that they try and make it easy to find something you just installed? And sorry, but the Windows 7 start menu gets full of crap really fast too.. a lot of programs tend to put an icon at the "top" of the menu, a bunch more in its own sub-menu (some even throw in a bunch of extra links that aren't even needed), pinned to the desktop, sometimes even pinned to the taskbar. Oh look, more crap to clean up.. first thing some people do after an install is clean the clutter left behind. Guess Windows 7 is flawed too?

Max Norris said,

Seriously? You're bothered that they try and make it easy to find something you just installed? And sorry, but the Windows 7 start menu gets full of crap really fast too.. a lot of programs tend to put an icon at the "top" of the menu, a bunch more in its own sub-menu (some even throw in a bunch of extra links that aren't even needed), pinned to the desktop, sometimes even pinned to the taskbar. Oh look, more crap to clean up.. guess Windows 7 is flawed too?

This is one of the flaws I pointed out with the Start Menu before. It's no saint when it comes to organization. Unfortunately, these same apps will also clutter the Start Screen in the same fashion until programmers clean up their act.

Dot Matrix said,

This is one of the flaws I pointed out with the Start Menu before. It's no saint when it comes to organization. Unfortunately, these same apps will also clutter the Start Screen in the same fashion until programmers clean up their act.

Yup... And people (including me) hated the superbar.

nekkidtruth said
Uh...what? It's not a personal issue that installing software causes all sorts of random ass junk to be applied to the Start Screen.
And the same thing happening in the Start Menu wasn't a "design flaw"? I said that it's more of a personal issue because you're making a big deal out of nothing. Is it that hard to remove a tile from the Start Screen, not really. Does it take a lot of time to remove a tile from the Start Screen, not really.

I've had crap from programs being put in the Start Menu, so does that mean that the Start Menu has a "design flaw". Maybe you should contact the developer who chose to add all those useless extras to the program.

Chugworth said
But I don't want to spend time organizing and naming groups! The old Start menu's "All Programs" list was already organized and named.
Well wouldn't you agree that being able to easily name groups whatever you want it to be is better than being stuck with pre-made names. Also, It'd be harder to make different folders in the Start Menu because you actually have to go to the Start Menu's folder and add it there.

Chugworth said
The old Start menu gave a handy search bar for finding things (true, Windows 8 does give you a hidden one), and a short list of my commonly accessed programs.
Windows 8's search function is meant to be hidden, and I don't know about you, but I love being able to start searching for anything just by typing the name.

Max Norris said
Seriously? You're bothered that they try and make it easy to find something you just installed? And sorry, but the Windows 7 start menu gets full of crap really fast too.. a lot of programs tend to put an icon at the "top" of the menu, a bunch more in its own sub-menu (some even throw in a bunch of extra links that aren't even needed), pinned to the desktop, sometimes even pinned to the taskbar. Oh look, more crap to clean up.. first thing some people do after an install is clean the clutter left behind. Guess Windows 7 is flawed too?
Well said. I think he was just trying to come up with reasons to hate Windows 8..

Dot Matrix said
This is one of the flaws I pointed out with the Start Menu before. It's no saint when it comes to organization. Unfortunately, these same apps will also clutter the Start Screen in the same fashion until programmers clean up their act.
That's exactly what I said to him. Not in those words exactly, but the same point. This has been happening for years now, and it's not any new here. It's up to the developers to "clean up their act"..

eddman said,

Which will make it much harder to distinguish between the metro apps and the desktop ones.

Full tile -> Metro app
Icon inside tile -> Desktop application


For me, it's no problem. I know which app is Metro and which is not. And I recognize the metro icons faster than just regular desktop icons on the Start Screen for some reason.

And I talked about adding an option for this, like how I can select the icon of a shortcut on the desktop, I want to be able to choose a tile image for anything I pin on the Start Screen. Just give people a choice, nothing wrong with that?

dtourond said,
Well I would think that the tile image for the application would be the developers responsibility. If they make an application, then shouldn't they add their own proper tile image. Of course, I like the application because it makes the tiles look a lot better.

Only Modern UI apps natively support tile images, and even if normal desktop apps would get native support for them, there are many legacy apps that would lack it.

What I ask for is the same as being able to choose icon on a shortcut, just for tiles instead. Just like I can select to use the Notepad icon for Visual Studio if I want, I want to be able to replace the Visual Studio icon on the Start Screen with a tile image that looks however I want it to. OblyTile does it, but not without flaws, so it would be nice if Microsoft implemented this.

Max Norris said,

Seriously? You're bothered that they try and make it easy to find something you just installed? And sorry, but the Windows 7 start menu gets full of crap really fast too.. a lot of programs tend to put an icon at the "top" of the menu, a bunch more in its own sub-menu (some even throw in a bunch of extra links that aren't even needed), pinned to the desktop, sometimes even pinned to the taskbar. Oh look, more crap to clean up.. first thing some people do after an install is clean the clutter left behind. Guess Windows 7 is flawed too?

Feel free to show me where in your start menu any given program randomly throws Uninstall, Readme and or INI files around (aka not in a folder NAMED after the application. I'll wait here....

dtourond said,
And the same thing happening in the Start Menu wasn't a "design flaw"? I said that it's more of a personal issue because you're making a big deal out of nothing. Is it that hard to remove a tile from the Start Screen, not really. Does it take a lot of time to remove a tile from the Start Screen, not really.

I've had crap from programs being put in the Start Menu, so does that mean that the Start Menu has a "design flaw". Maybe you should contact the developer who chose to add all those useless extras to the program.


nekkidtruth said,
Feel free to show me where in your start menu any given program randomly throws Uninstall, Readme and or INI files around (aka not in a folder NAMED after the application. I'll wait here....

Refer to the quote above. It is not just the developers job. Especially considering Microsoft decided to incorporate such a drastic change in UI and function. There should be code in place to deter the above mentioned form happening. There's no reason why an app, especially a "Desktop Application" should be allowed to install random junk on to the Start Screen. I don't need to find a reason to hate Windows 8, there are plenty blatantly obvious reasons to dislike it. Quit being a fanboy. If you feel you need to dedicate your life to attempting to convert Windows H8ters, be my guest. However, I don't hate Windows, so you're welcome to move along.

nekkidtruth said,
Feel free to show me where in your start menu any given program randomly throws Uninstall, Readme and or INI files around (aka not in a folder NAMED after the application. I'll wait here....

Never said it did, I just said it throws a bunch of extras in there that some may find messy. Specifically said "a bunch more in its own sub-menu". Feel free to point out where I said otherwise... I'll wait here.

Max Norris said,

Never said it did, I just said it throws a bunch of extras in there that some may find messy. Specifically said "a bunch more in its own sub-menu". Feel free to point out where I said otherwise... I'll wait here.

Right, so you're unable to provide proof contrary to what I said happens on the Start Screen. As I suspected. Therefore anything else you said pretty much has zero to do with what was being discussed.

nekkidtruth said,
Right, so you're unable to provide proof contrary to what I said happens on the Start Screen. As I suspected. Therefore anything else you said pretty much has zero to do with what was being discussed.

If anything it's decent proof of your lack of reading comprehension. Scroll up and try again. Here's a hint, you mentioned previous versions of Windows don't have you cleaning up superfluous entries left by installers, I pointed out items added to the desktop, the task bar, some installers add multiple entries (one at the top level, one in a sub-menu), miscellaneous entries that just clutter things up (multiple read-me's, web links, uninstaller link even though it's in the control panel, etc etc)... namely, bullsh't they don't. I can draw a picture if it helps.

Max Norris said,

If anything it's decent proof of your lack of reading comprehension. Scroll up and try again. Here's a hint, you mentioned previous versions of Windows don't have you cleaning up superfluous entries left by installers, I pointed out items added to the desktop, the task bar, some installers add multiple entries (one at the top level, one in a sub-menu), miscellaneous entries that just clutter things up (multiple read-me's, web links, uninstaller link even though it's in the control panel, etc etc)... namely, bullsh't they don't. I can draw a picture if it helps.

I'm not the one who has a comprehension issue. You're referring to the old Start Menu which was ALREADY organized by sub folders automatically and stuff was rarely, if ever randomly thrown around, whereas I'm referring to the Start Screen which allows anything and it's mother to be automatically pinned when something is installed. There's clearly a distinction. This is a flaw, plain and simple. Accept it or don't, makes no difference to me.

nekkidtruth said,
I'm not the one who has a comprehension issue.

Well yes, apparently you are if you're (again) saying that I said it throws stuff around randomly. And again, scroll up, I never did, not once. Not sure why you have a hardon about this "random entry" stuff, not sure where you're getting that from. All I said was that a lot of installers tend to throw extra stuff in there that some people find messy, and some will even throw duplicate in there, namely one in the root level, another in the sub-menu, and sometimes even in other locations such as the desktop and pinned to the taskbar. This was in response you your complaining about 8 automatically pinning an application to the start screen as being messy, when previous versions can be just as messy. Get it now?

Max Norris said,

useless post

I don't think it's me who doesn't get it. My Start menu in Windows 7 is perfectly clean. Never organized or touched it once. Start Screen on Windows 8 is a disaster after installing only a couple of "Desktop" applications. If you find that your Start menu has the same issue, great! Doesn't change the fact that it happens and is inherently worse in Windows 8 with the Start Screen. Well, unless you're a butthurt fanboy who's incapable of critically looking at the object of your affection.

nekkidtruth said,
If you find that your Start menu has the same issue, great! Doesn't change the fact that it happens and is inherently worse in Windows 8 with the Start Screen.

Brilliant. Now again can you point out where I said that it wasn't? I'm still waiting for you to show where I said it threw stuff in random places too. Not sure why you have this need to invent pseduo-drama, but keep me out of your attention grabbing tantrums, m'kay?

nekkidtruth said,
Well, unless you're a butthurt fanboy who's incapable of critically looking at the object of your affection.

If anyone's butthurt it's you as you're the one crying about this in the first place, never mind blatantly ignoring what's right in front of your face. And calling absolute bull f'ing crap on the 7 start menu being "perfectly" clean without doing anything. Out of the box it's already somewhat of a mess, throw on some more applications, a few games, maybe Visual Studio and the like, and it's a train wreck. I agree 7 and previous organizes it better given the user's inclination to do so, losing the nested menus in 8 hurts (if you missed it *again* I never said otherwise), but don't try to pass off the previous versions as "organized without touching it once". Sounds like you have a few dozen submenus all piled up at the root level, never mind a bunch of shortcuts right at the top, maybe a bunch of desktop shortcuts. That's not organized, not even close.

What was the point of your post again? Kind of lost it in all the crap. I'll respond again when you actually answer any of my questions above, otherwise you're just wasting time trying to grab more attention, I've got better things to do, thanks for including me though.

You specifically replied to MY comment where I stated the Start Screen is a disaster with regards to installing software onto the computer, with some horrible example, which I've never personally experienced. When I called you out on it, you got all defensive and wanted me to specifically point out where you said any such thing. Your entire comment and responses since have smacked of the insinuation that a.) The Start Screen is much better than the Start menu (Which it's not) and b.) That the exact issue that I and others experience with the Start Screen (random shortcuts being pinned automatically without permission), happens in the Windows 7 Start menu (which doesn't happen on my machine). If you're incapable of communicating what it is exactly that you're trying to say, being condescending isn't going to change the fact that you're incapable of communicating properly.

You're welcome to call bull on whatever you like however, my Windows 7 Start menu is not a disaster and I have never once organized it nor had the need to. Everything is installed/posted exactly where it should be. All by itself automatically. I'm not crying, I'm stating a fact that the Start Screen has a flaw that needs to be addressed and it isn't the user's fault or the developers fault...it's Microsoft's. Get over it.

nekkidtruth said,
When I called you out on it, you got all defensive and wanted me to specifically point out where you said any such thing. Your entire comment and responses since have smacked of the insinuation that blah blah blah...

Soooo basically I called you out on totally twisting what I said, I've *repeatedly* said that I've not once mentioned or even implied that 8's menu was in any way superior to 7, and now you refuse to show where I supposedly said any of this and trying to make your inability to comprehend *my* fault? Convenient that, and an excellent cop-out. Pretty poor way of showing your "point" though. The *only* thing you've gotten even remotely correct is my comment about the automatic pinning being convenient for *some* people, especially those who are new to using the system and/or would rather not have to go digging for things. For everybody else, it takes all of a second to remove it again, once, big hardship there right? After that you've gone on this massive tangent that makes no sense and is basing "facts" on things that I've never even said, not once, never mind blatantly ignoring the shortcomings in 7's start menu, which, sorry to break it to you, it's not perfect either.

nekkidtruth said,
I have never once organized it nor had the need to. Everything is installed/posted exactly where it should be. All by itself automatically.

And again you're missing the point. Of course it's all done automatically.. kind of been like that since, well, forever, but "where it should be" is completely subjective. I like my start menu organized, not just dumped into a crapton of submenus. On my Win7 desktops the root of my start menu has 8 entries, organized into categories. That's it. Out of the box the the start menu turns into a trash dump of links. So obviously your idea of organized isn't the same as "everybody". And before I hear about this for another 20 posts, I'm not saying, insinuating, implying or even suggesting it's right for everybody else either.

nekkidtruth said,
has a flaw that needs to be addressed and it isn't the user's fault or the developers fault...it's Microsoft's. Get over it.

Well considering they wrote the thing, well, hate to say the obvious, but... duh? Of course it's their fault. Not sure what I'm supposed to get over when I've never said it wasn't. *All* I said was that it was probably convenient for some people and that 7's start menu wasn't perfect either and given you a couple examples as to why. That's it. You're the one getting your panties in a twist about it and apparently aren't able to get over the fact that, well gosh, it just might be true. Unless you're one of those "me = everybody" types, then this is beyond a lost cause.

nekkidtruth said,
being condescending isn't going to change the fact that you're incapable of communicating properly.

Sure about that? Still reeks of reading comprehension failures, especially since you're still going on about things I've never said. What I originally said wasn't complicated, twisted with innuendo, or rambling nonsense. You've gone and blew this whole thing out of gigantic proportions to prove a non-existent point about something that wasn't even said, and even (unsuccessfully) tried a few weak insults. I've even clarified it a few times to the point of absurdity since you're apparently having problems getting the point.

Max Norris said,
*wasted space*

So....in the end....all you're saying is, you agree but disagree at the same time. But instead of simply saying that, you decided it was much easier to act like a complete moron who felt some strange need to act like a fanboy for no other reason than the fact that you aren't capable of communicating clearly?

I responded to what you wrote in your own words. If you need me to explain what you meant in your comments, the comprehension issue isn't mine. I'm simply working off what you wrote, which by the way were riddled with insinuations and very little else. If you didn't want me to assume what you meant, you should have been more clear. However, it's obvious the point of your comments was to incite an argument. An argument which was entirely unnecessary because you agree with some points, but disagree on others. But...were too busy frothing at the mouth because someone insulted Windows 8 to take a deep breath and respond clearly.

Got'cha.

nekkidtruth said,
So....in the end....all you're saying is, you agree but disagree at the same time. But instead of simply saying that, you decided it was much easier to act like a complete moron who felt some strange need to act like a fanboy for no other reason than the fact that aren't capable of communicating clearly?

Wow. You obviously either just trolling or an idiot if that's all you've gotten out of this... starting to lean towards the latter unfortunately. Trolls are at least mildly entertaining for a short while. Let's try and make this as simple as possible. Here's my first post directly squarely at you, which I've regretted a few posts back, had I known you'd be this dense about it I'd have just laughed and moved on. Lesson learned.

Max Norris said,
Seriously? You're bothered that they try and make it easy to find something you just installed? And sorry, but the Windows 7 start menu gets full of crap really fast too.. a lot of programs tend to put an icon at the "top" of the menu, a bunch more in its own sub-menu (some even throw in a bunch of extra links that aren't even needed), pinned to the desktop, sometimes even pinned to the taskbar. Oh look, more crap to clean up.. first thing some people do after an install is clean the clutter left behind. Guess Windows 7 is flawed too?

Short tl;dr version for the one or two people who have trouble with a single paragraph. Well, you specifically.
1) Automatically pinning items can be a good thing for *some* people. Never once said that it's good for everybody. EVER.
2) The 7 start menu isn't exactly the organizational paradise you try to paint it out to be, never mind "organized" being wildly subjective. Later on somewhere during your rants I even showed you an example as to how what's good for you isn't what *everybody* wants. I'd even suggest taking a look at a few Linux desktops to get an idea of what's typically a much more organized menu system, namely usually one entry per application... but that would probably get you going on another rant about being a Linux fanboy, and I'll just pass on that thanks. Can't let little things like facts or other peoples opinions get in the way of your rants now can we?

That's it. No fanboyism. No butthurt. No lies. Certainly no "frothing at the mouth." You say you responded in my own words? Where is the insinuations? Where am I defending Windows 8? (Did you miss the part when I even said I don't use 8 as my primary OS?) Where am I inciting an argument? That was all done by *you*. You're the one insinuating things. You're the one who started with weak insults. You're the one who's butthurt and exhibiting signs of rabid fanboyism. You can twist this any way you want but it's painfully obvious you got called out on stirring up an argument that wasn't even there than don't have the stones to admit it when you're wrong.

Max Norris said,

Wow. You obviously either just trolling or an idiot if that's all you've gotten out of this... starting to lean towards the latter unfortunately. Trolls are at least mildly entertaining for a short while. Let's try and make this as simple as possible. Here's my first post directly squarely at you, which I've regretted a few posts back, had I known you'd be this dense about it I'd have just laughed and moved on. Lesson learned.

All of which you're certainly not guilty of at all throughout this entire conversation, correct? You directed your comment towards me, but failed to provide a counter argument. You simply said "Yeah well Windows 7 does it too!!". K. And? As I stated above (multiple times I might add, you know...for the one ore two people who have trouble with a single sentence. Well you, specifically), my Windows 7 Start menu is not a disaster and I have not organized a thing in it. Do people have different views on what is/is not acceptable? Absolutely. I have no qualms with that.

Max Norris said,

1) Automatically pinning items can be a good thing for *some* people. Never once said that it's good for everybody. EVER.
2) The 7 start menu isn't exactly the organizational paradise you try to paint it out to be, never mind "organized" being wildly subjective. Later on somewhere during your rants I even showed you an example as to how what's good for you isn't what *everybody* wants. I'd even suggest taking a look at a few Linux desktops to get an idea of what's typically a much more organized menu system, namely usually one entry per application... but that would probably get you going on another rant about being a Linux fanboy, and I'll just pass on that thanks. Can't let little things like facts or other peoples opinions get in the way of your rants now can we?

Since I'm being so "dense", feel free to point out where I said my way of organizing the Start menu or Start Screen is the only way and that it benefits everyone. See? I can play this ridiculous game as well. You insinuated in your posts that I was incorrect, but didn't actually prove I was incorrect. You simply added Windows 7 and whatever issue you have with it's Start menu to the conversation. Rightly so if it was to say "Hey, Windows 7 does this too! It's silly!". However, that is not what you said. You insinuated that since Windows 7 does it too, my argument was moot. Except, oh wait...it isn't.

Max Norris said,
That's it. No fanboyism. No butthurt. No lies. Certainly no "frothing at the mouth." You say you responded in my own words? Where is the insinuations? Where am I defending Windows 8? (Did you miss the part when I even said I don't use 8 as my primary OS?) Where am I inciting an argument? That was all done by *you*. You're the one insinuating things. You're the one who started with weak insults. You're the one who's butthurt and exhibiting signs of rabid fanboyism. You can twist this any way you want but it's painfully obvious you got called out on stirring up an argument that wasn't even there than don't have the stones to admit it when you're wrong.

Believe me, I have the stones. The problem is, I wasn't wrong. Of course, since there appears to be a comprehension issue, I can't really fault you for feeling so lost.

nekkidtruth said,
You directed your comment towards me, but failed to provide a counter argument. You simply said "Yeah well Windows 7 does it too!!".

And since you obviously have problems grasping basic sentences (never mind short term memory loss), I later gave you a full example as to why I said what I did... remember? Do I need to quote that too? It's a lot easier if you'd just scroll up and re-read it, this is getting tiresome.

nekkidtruth said,
Do people have different views on what is/is not acceptable? Absolutely. I have no qualms with that.

Then why the hell are you making a fuss over it? Did I not say the exact same damned thing several times?

nekkidtruth said,
Since I'm being so "dense", feel free to point out where I said my way of organizing the Start menu or Start Screen is the only way and that it benefits everyone. See? I can play this ridiculous game as well.

Apparently not, since I never once accused you of saying stuff you haven't said now, have I? I quoted you each and every time. You however have been making up things as you go. You're going to lie your way through something, you damned well better expect to get called out on it. You've done nothing but proven exactly how childish you're willing to be in order to win an argument that you started in the first place, and when you get called out to be a liar (or at least having a vivid sense of imagination), you'll play games and twist things to hide it. Cowardly and pathetic.

nekkidtruth said,
You insinuated that since Windows 7 does it too, my argument was moot. Except, oh wait...it isn't.

Never insinuated anything, I flat out said that Windows 7's menu can get messy in a hurry too. That's it. I'd ask you where I said your argument was moot, but *gasp* that's totally unfair right? Sure sounds like you're the one with the "I'm right, everybody else is wrong just because I say so" attitude.

nekkidtruth said,
Believe me, I have the stones. The problem is, I wasn't wrong. Of course, since there appears to be a comprehension issue, I can't really fault you for feeling so lost.

No, apparently you don't, since your response is just another "insult" and completely ignoring everything that was said. Any fool can throw an insult and completely miss the point. Maybe it's impressive on the school yard. Not so much anywhere else though. Not sure why you keep mentioning me having comprehension issues when I clearly understand what you're saying, and yet you totally skip over any response and just herp-derp your way through an answer. Again (for the bajillionth time) what I originally wrote was a simple, easy to understand single paragraph and you felt the need to over analyze and inject random things you *think* I said yet never did, and then act like the poor martyr when you get called out on it. I'm *still* waiting for you to prove me wrong there. Fire away, quote the relevant bits. Oh wait, I'm not allowed to say that, ridiculous games and all that. Being honest would totally ruin this, can't have that now can we?

I'm done for the night. You've beaten this stupid 'argument' to death, done nothing but throw a tantrum and added nothing but drama. Zero points for actually proving your point but I'll be sure to put a good word in at the Oscars if there's one for Drama Queen. Feel free to blather on some more about nothing, I'll be sure to pop by in the morning before work to respond. You got plenty of time to at least think of something smart to say this time around instead of resorting to lies and twisting words, if you're actually capable of that. Or you can just take the easy way out and just throw lame attempts at insults too. Make it good though, my daughter can do better than this, and she's six. Whichever works, just please at least make it worth the while.

Max Norris said,

*a bunch of stuff that must absolutely be true, simply because you took the time to hammer it all out on your keyboard*

Night night. Don't let the hypocrite bugs bite!

P.S. Show me where I lied?

nekkidtruth said,
P.S. Show me where I lied?

You mean aside from the dozen or so times I pointed it out to you previously? Lol... Scroll up if you're too damned stupid to remember or just too lazy to read... I'm sure if you concentrate enough you'll eventually figure it out.

P.S. 7 hours and "derp" was your best shot? You're not even trying to keep your trolling interesting.

nekkidtruth said
Feel free to show me where in your start menu any given program randomly throws Uninstall, Readme and or INI files around (aka not in a folder NAMED after the application. I'll wait here....
Wether those files are in the application folder, or in the Start Menu itself, the point is that it happens in Windows 7 and 8.

He makes a good point.

nekkidtruth said
I don't need to find a reason to hate Windows 8, there are plenty blatantly obvious reasons to dislike it.
Such as..?

nekkidtruth said
Quit being a fanboy.
I'll defend something that I know is a great product. And I don't just use Windows. In fact, I'm writing this comment on my laptop running Lubuntu. Across from me is my Mac Mini running Mountain Lion.

nekkidtruth said
If you feel you need to dedicate your life to attempting to convert Windows H8ters, be my guest.
I don't try and convert anybody. My issue is when they choose to bash it. If they're bashing something that I like to use and I know is a great product, yeah, I'll defend. That goes for anything.

Max Norris said
Out of the box it's already somewhat of a mess, throw on some more applications, a few games, maybe Visual Studio and the like, and it's a train wreck.
True. I've seen a lot of Windows 7 start menus when I'd help someone with their computer and they never once tried to organize it, and it never looked "perfectly clean".

I remember in the days of XP, Vista (yes, Vista) and even 7 where I had to delete the application folders because the uninstaller didn't remove it. Some applications will leave a mess behind.

nekkidtruth said
You're welcome to call bull on whatever you like however, my Windows 7 Start menu is not a disaster and I have never once organized it nor had the need to.
Just remember. You're not the only person in the world so instead of just thinking about yourself, you should try putting yourself in other peoples' shoes. I've seen plenty of people's start menus cluttered with garbage from applications.

nekkidtruth said
I'm stating a fact that the Start Screen has a flaw that needs to be addressed and it isn't the user's fault or the developers fault...it's Microsoft's. Get over it.
Some software companies put extra crap in their software that we'll never really need, so they're apart of this too. And since XP, Vista, and 7 have all gotten useless crap in their start menu's it's not Microsoft's fault. Developers have a responsibility. And just because you somehow don't have any crap in your start menu (although I think you're lying), doesn't mean that everyone else won't have crap in their's. Again, put yourself in other peopes' shoes and stop thinking about just yourself.

And just because you find the Start menu better than the Start Screen, doesn't mean that it's any better. I find the Start Screen a helluva lot better in several ways, but those ways might not apply to you..

Edited by dtourond, Feb 18 2013, 7:42pm :

Max Norris said,

You mean aside from the dozen or so times I pointed it out to you previously? Lol... Scroll up if you're too damned stupid to remember or just too lazy to read... I'm sure if you concentrate enough you'll eventually figure it out.

P.S. 7 hours and "derp" was your best shot? You're not even trying to keep your trolling interesting.

You must be reading a different conversation. I'm still waiting for you to show me where I lied. You can continue with the personal attacks and playing the martyr, but you've yet to validate any of it. Anyone who's capable of reading can clearly see you agreed with me, but for some reason attempted to communicate your agreement as a disagreement simply because it applied to more than one OS (Which is, to put it bluntly, acting like a retarded fanboy [See, I can make personal attacks too!]). However, still no lies. Perhaps someone needs to brush up on the definitions of a lie?

dtourond said,
Just remember. You're not the only person in the world so instead of just thinking about yourself, you should try putting yourself in other peoples' shoes. I've seen plenty of people's start menus cluttered with garbage from applications.

Of course I'm not the only person in the world. You're welcome to show me at which point I said that or hell, where I even implied that I was the only user of Windows, ever.

dtourond said,
Some software companies put extra crap in their software that we'll never really need, so they're apart of this too. And since XP, Vista, and 7 have all gotten useless crap in their start menu's it's not Microsoft's fault. Developers have a responsibility. And just because you somehow don't have any crap in your start menu (although I think you're lying), doesn't mean that everyone else won't have crap in their's. Again, put yourself in other peopes' shoes and stop thinking about just yourself.

The fact of the matter is, Microsoft developed the Start Screen. It's no secret installers do more than just install their own software. Microsoft chose to make such a drastic change and because of said change, something that was an issue before is now amplified. The first time Microsoft sat down and ran the new Start Screen and installed software, you think their conversation went something like this?

MS Dev A: I'm just sitting here installing some apps.
MS Dev B: Oh whoa! What's all that??
MS Dev A: Oh...yeah. I just installed [Desktop App] and it automatically pinned a shortcut, a bookmark, the ReadMe file and it's config.ini file to the Start Screen.
MS Dev B: Ahh. Well it does that in Windows 7 too.
MS Dev A: Yeah. No biggie. Looks good!!

It is/was Microsoft's responsibility to ensure there was a smooth (or as close to smooth as possible) transition not only for the user, but developers as well. This issue smacks of laziness.

dtourond said,
And just because you find the Start menu better than the Start Screen, doesn't mean that it's any better. I find the Start Screen a helluva lot better in several ways, but those ways might not apply to you..

And just because you find the Start Screen better than the Start menu, doesn't mean it's any better. See it works both ways. The only reason this flood of comments started was because rather than say "Hey, it's not really for everyone. I understand that. But I like it", you chose to be condescending and claimed the above issue (and an issue it is, regardless of what you might believe) was a personal issue to one of the earlier posters. I just responded to let you know that no, it's not a personal issue and he/she is not the only one dealing with it.

nekkidtruth said
Of course I'm not the only person in the world. You're welcome to show me at which point I said that or hell, where I even implied that I was the only user of Windows, ever.
After reading the whole war between you and Max, you sound like the kind of person who only thinks about himself. I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way. Just because your start menu is somehow clean, doesn't mean that every other Windows user's start menu will be clean as well. I've fixed many computers and every time I seen a start menu it was always cluttered with useless junk by the developers of the applications. To be honest with you, you sound like a liar.

nekkidtruth said
The fact of the matter is, Microsoft developed the Start Screen.
Duh.. Tell me something I don't know...

nekkidtruth said
It's no secret installers do more than just install their own software. Microsoft chose to make such a drastic change and because of said change, something that was an issue before is now amplified.
How is it amplified..? If this "issue" has been going on for years (which is has), how is it different now? Microsoft is responsible for their own software, and the developers that add extra crap to their software are responsible for that.

nekkidtruth said
It is/was Microsoft's responsibility to ensure there was a smooth (or as close to smooth as possible) transition not only for the user, but developers as well. This issue smacks of laziness.
Once again; Microsoft is not responsible for what the developers do. If they write crap software, why should Microsoft get blamed. I don't like software that does that but at the same time I don't blame Microsoft or get uspet at them because Microsoft wasn't the one who put those files there, it was the installer that did it.

nekkidtruth said
And just because you find the Start Screen better than the Start menu, doesn't mean it's any better.
You're right about that. But you see, there is no better. Some people like the Start Menu, but some people (like me) prefer the Start Screen. You see, I can prove in several ways how it's better, but those ways might not apply to you.

nekkidtruth said
I just responded to let you know that no, it's not a personal issue and he/she is not the only one dealing with it.
Just like he/she is not the only one who have got messy start menus due to crap from software.

dtourond said,
After reading the whole war between you and Max, you sound like the kind of person who only thinks about himself. I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way. Just because your start menu is somehow clean, doesn't mean that every other Windows user's start menu will be clean as well. I've fixed many computers and every time I seen a start menu it was always cluttered with useless junk by the developers of the applications. To be honest with you, you sound like a liar.

All these accusations about lying, but neither you or Max have been able to point out where exactly I was lying. Clearly an incorrect use of the word. Regardless of what you believe about the kind of person I am, you don't know the first thing about me. Let's not pretend you do. I suppose next time someone disagrees with me and or says something I don't like I could just scream "LIAR!!!!"

dtourond said,
Duh.. Tell me something I don't know...

No thanks. There's this wonderful thing called "The Internet". I'm sure there's lots you don't know, might be a good place to start.

dtourond said,
How is it amplified..? If this "issue" has been going on for years (which is has), how is it different now? Microsoft is responsible for their own software, and the developers that add extra crap to their software are responsible for that.

The fact that I have to explain to you the reason is amplified only goes to show that you aren't truly up for a debate, but rather an argument as to why Windows 8 is simply the best thing since sliced bread. The Start menu was contained in a small corner of the screen. Even unorganized, it was simply a list of folders/files. The Start Screen is nowhere near as contained. When something is randomly pinned automatically, it's a multitude of giant sized squares thrown around across your entire screen. If you want to be a sarcastic jerk, that's fine but let's not pretend you're stupid as well....unless we're not pretending.

dtourond said,
Once again; Microsoft is not responsible for what the developers do. If they write crap software, why should Microsoft get blamed. I don't like software that does that but at the same time I don't blame Microsoft or get uspet at them because Microsoft wasn't the one who put those files there, it was the installer that did it.

Microsoft is responsible for their product(s). As I so politely pointed out in an earlier comment, the Start Screen is their product.

dtourond said,
You're right about that. But you see, there is no better. Some people like the Start Menu, but some people (like me) prefer the Start Screen. You see, I can prove in several ways how it's better, but those ways might not apply to you.

Just as I can prove it's not, but those ways might not apply to you. Why do we need to skirt around the true issue here? You think Windows 8 is God's gift and I think you're full of it?

dtourond said,
Just like he/she is not the only one who have got messy start menus due to crap from software.

Uh...ok....? Rather than attempt to be a sarcastic fool for no reason other than to stroke whatever ego you have, you might want to try making some sense. Otherwise you sound ridiculous. Sort of like the above sentence where you simply agreed with what I said rather than provide an actual response or proof to the contrary.

nekkidtruth said
All these accusations about lying, but neither you or Max have been able to point out where exactly I was lying.
I don't have time, nor the interest in going over every exact word but after reading it I did get the sense that you are a liar. I don't need to prove anything. This isn't a court room, so relax..

nekkidtruth said
Clearly an incorrect use of the word.
How is it "clearly" an incorrect use. You sound like a liar. I meant exactly that. You sound like someone who's lying. How much more detailed do you want it to be..

nekkidtruth said
Regardless of what you believe about the kind of person I am, you don't know the first thing about me.
Never said I did.

nekkidtruth said
I suppose next time someone disagrees with me and or says something I don't like I could just scream "LIAR!!!!"
Wow.. I'm not even 18 yet and I've got more maturity then you. Just like Max said, you take things and twist it around until it satisfies you.. I don't call everyone who disagrees with something a liar. I'm getting the sense that you're a liar because of your atttitude, and your way of handling an argument and pretty much your choice of actions on responding to Max..

nekkidtruth said
No thanks. There's this wonderful thing called "The Internet". I'm sure there's lots you don't know, might be a good place to start.
I actually know a lot. More than you think. Of course, you'd deny that..

nekkidtruth said
The fact that I have to explain to you the reason is amplified only goes to show that you aren't truly up for a debate, but rather an argument as to why Windows 8 is simply the best thing since sliced bread. The Start menu was contained in a small corner of the screen. Even unorganized, it was simply a list of folders/files. The Start Screen is nowhere near as contained. When something is randomly pinned automatically, it's a multitude of giant sized squares thrown around across your entire screen. If you want to be a sarcastic jerk, that's fine but let's not pretend you're stupid as well....unless we're not pretending.
You still didn't answer my question? Why are you ignoring it. Is it because you can't answer it.

nekkidtruth said
Microsoft is responsible for their product(s). As I so politely pointed out in an earlier comment, the Start Screen is their product.
Wow. Something polite, coming from you; woah.. Yes, the Start Screen is Microsoft's product, but what do you suppose Microsoft does with all the crap that developers (yes, developers) put into the computer. Do you think that Microsoft should just block any sort of crap from the software. Can you even begin to imagine the amount of lawsuits that would fly in from something like that. Developers would be p!ssed off and they would probably move to different platforms like OS X or even Linux.

nekkidtruth said
Why do we need to skirt around the true issue here? You think Windows 8 is God's gift and I think you're full of it?
You mean, like you've been doing when I asked you a question and you chose not to answer it.. +1 for being a hypocrite.

nekkidtruth said
Uh...ok....? Rather than attempt to be a sarcastic fool for no reason other than to stroke whatever ego you have, you might want to try making some sense. Otherwise you sound ridiculous. Sort of like the above sentence where you simply agreed with what I said rather than provide an actual response or proof to the contrary.
Um, you noticed how I've been calm and professional. Then there's you who's just trying to insult me every chance you get. You've got some issues there bud. You might want to work on that. I'm sure there's guidance counsellors in your school that'll be able to help you out.

dtourond said,
I don't have time, nor the interest in going over every exact word but after reading it I did get the sense that you are a liar. I don't need to prove anything. This isn't a court room, so relax..

So, you called me a liar but are unable to point out where it was exactly that I lied. Just as Max wasn't able to point it out either. Which apparently automatically proves I'm a liar. Riiiiight.

dtourond said,
How is it "clearly" an incorrect use. You sound like a liar. I meant exactly that. You sound like someone who's lying. How much more detailed do you want it to be..

Please try to keep up with the conversation. You keep calling me a liar, yet haven't proven I'm a liar. Hence, you are incorrectly calling me a liar. In the land of the English language, you are incorrectly using the word.

dtourond said,
Never said I did.

I don't recall ever saying you said anything. Simply that you are implying that you know me, which you don't. Once again, please try to follow along.

dtourond said,
Wow.. I'm not even 18 yet and I've got more maturity then you. Just like Max said, you take things and twist it around until it satisfies you.. I don't call everyone who disagrees with something a liar. I'm getting the sense that you're a liar because of your atttitude, and your way of handling an argument and pretty much your choice of actions on responding to Max..

The fact that you felt the need to point out your age shows just how immature you actually are. Way to add more garbage to your argument. Even though it's evident you didn't truly have an argument.

dtourond said,
I actually know a lot. More than you think. Of course, you'd deny that..

Yes, I can very clearly see how much you know.

dtourond said,
You still didn't answer my question? Why are you ignoring it. Is it because you can't answer it.

Still not following along? I very clearly answered your question. Let me quote it again for you so you don't have scroll up:

nekkidtruth said,
The fact that I have to explain to you the reason is amplified only goes to show that you aren't truly up for a debate, but rather an argument as to why Windows 8 is simply the best thing since sliced bread. The Start menu was contained in a small corner of the screen. Even unorganized, it was simply a list of folders/files. The Start Screen is nowhere near as contained. When something is randomly pinned automatically, it's a multitude of giant sized squares thrown around across your entire screen. If you want to be a sarcastic jerk, that's fine but let's not pretend you're stupid as well....unless we're not pretending.

I hope this time you take the time to read it, as I very clearly explained the reason it's "amplified".

dtourond said,
Wow. Something polite, coming from you; woah.. Yes, the Start Screen is Microsoft's product, but what do you suppose Microsoft does with all the crap that developers (yes, developers) put into the computer. Do you think that Microsoft should just block any sort of crap from the software. Can you even begin to imagine the amount of lawsuits that would fly in from something like that. Developers would be p!ssed off and they would probably move to different platforms like OS X or even Linux.

Developers from either end can only go so far when it comes to their products, that much we can agree on. However, we apparently part ways on where that line is drawn in the sand. In my opinion, Microsoft hasn't reached that line.

dtourond said,
You mean, like you've been doing when I asked you a question and you chose not to answer it.. +1 for being a hypocrite.

-1 for reading comprehension. I did answer your question. Whether you agree with or not is irrelevant. I still answered it.

dtourond said,
Um, you noticed how I've been calm and professional. Then there's you who's just trying to insult me every chance you get. You've got some issues there bud. You might want to work on that. I'm sure there's guidance counsellors in your school that'll be able to help you out.

I suppose if you think that anyone who disagrees with you needs "guidance" or "help", it's not really me who has an issue. Are we done?

nekkidtruth said,
So, you called me a liar but are unable to point out where it was exactly that I lied. Just as Max wasn't able to point it out either. Which apparently automatically proves I'm a liar. Riiiiight.

I've just been ignoring your stupidity over the past couple of days as it's pretty much lost its entertainment value, but just for giggles seeing as you're one to just beat a point to death just to get the last word in, let's recap (for like the 20th time now), I did point it out. Multiple times. You repeatedly kept creating arguments against things that I supposedly said... and yet you can't point out where I actually said any of that stuff. All you did in response was make weak insults, accuse me of rabid fanboyism (even though I don't even use 8), and generally acted like a childish moron. It all started when you insinuated something to the effect of me saying that the Windows 7 start menu will throw around entries randomly, you took it way out of context and got into a raving nutty about it. And yet still can't point out where I actually said that. I did say that the developer can have the installer throw entries anywhere it wants. Never once said it was Windows. That was all on you. Then your ranting just went downhill from there. Short version, if you accuse somebody of saying something they didn't say, that's called a lie kiddo.

So you can put your fingers in your ears, play dumb, say it didn't happen, toss insults all you want in an insipid attempt to distract from your inability to admit you were wrong all you want.. knock yourself out. Tell you right now you can safely assume that I won't reply again until you have something intelligent to respond with. Sadly, your next response is going to be "blah blah reading comprehension", "herp derp I'm always right", etc etc. I'll just pass, mmkay? I'm not sure which is more surprising, your willingness to go *this* far to prove your "point", no matter how weak it is, or that the moderators haven't nuked the last few pages of drivel yet.

nekkidtruth said
So, you called me a liar but are unable to point out where it was exactly that I lied. Just as Max wasn't able to point it out either. Which apparently automatically proves I'm a liar. Riiiiight.
When did I say that I was unable to? I said (and I quote) "I don't have time, nor the interest". Where does it say that I'm unable to.

nekkidtruth said
.. You keep calling me a liar, yet haven't proven I'm a liar. Hence, you are incorrectly calling me a liar. In the land of the English language, you are incorrectly using the word.
No.. I'm not "incorrectly" calling you a liar. It's not something that I have to (or want to) prove. You just give off that vibe. I like how you're trying to school me on the English language, that's funny.

nekkidtruth said
I don't recall ever saying you said anything. Simply that you are implying that you know me, which you don't. Once again, please try to follow along.
Yeah, I've actually been following along, but okay..

nekkidtruth said
The fact that you felt the need to point out your age shows just how immature you actually are. Way to add more garbage to your argument. Even though it's evident you didn't truly have an argument.
I didn't "need to", I just thought I'd point out how someone like me who's not 18 yet has more maturity than you.

nekkidtruth said
Yes, I can very clearly see how much you know.
Okay then..

nekkidtruth said
.. I very clearly answered your question.
If that was your answer, then you really shouldn't be here then..

nekkidtruth said
I hope this time you take the time to read it, as I very clearly explained the reason it's "amplified".
You're going to need to do better than that..

nekkidtruth said
Developers from either end can only go so far when it comes to their products, that much we can agree on. However, we apparently part ways on where that line is drawn in the sand. In my opinion, Microsoft hasn't reached that line.
Okay..

nekkidtruth said
-1 for reading comprehension. I did answer your question. Whether you agree with or not is irrelevant. I still answered it.
That actually made me laugh. Reading comprehension, you're funny.

nekkidtruth said
I suppose if you think that anyone who disagrees with you needs "guidance" or "help", it's not really me who has an issue. Are we done?
Again, you're twisting things around. I didn't say you needed a guidance counsellor because I disagree with you. I said that because you resort to insults rather than focusing on really answering a question properly..

Max Norris said,

*fluff because I still refuse to point out where you were lying*

Except I never said you said anything. I said you implied something. If it makes you feel better to attach an incorrect word to that (aka. lying), go for it. However, at no point did I lie about anything, kiddo. Once again, feel free to quote exactly where I lied. If you can't do that, don't bother responding.

If they are still in the hiring process how can they deliver Blue by 2013? Six, eight months to accomplish what the article mentions is a very short time.

Fritzly said,
If they are still in the hiring process how can they deliver Blue by 2013? Six, eight months to accomplish what the article mentions is a very short time.

There are lots of areas to work on, the one who gets this job could be working on something small like one part of the UI only or a new feature in one of the apps, not everything needs years to work on. Plus I'm sure they're already well into it, they're not starting now. They are just looking for a few more people to speed it up more.

GP007 said,

There are lots of areas to work on, the one who gets this job could be working on something small like one part of the UI only or a new feature in one of the apps, not everything needs years to work on. Plus I'm sure they're already well into it, they're not starting now. They are just looking for a few more people to speed it up more.


This is true although they are talking about Excel which is not a trivial piece of software.
They might release things in waves; it would not only easier but also keep people talking about it.

Fritzly said,
If they are still in the hiring process how can they deliver Blue by 2013? Six, eight months to accomplish what the article mentions is a very short time.

An "SDET" at Microsoft is the equivalent of a "QA Engineer" at other software companies. In other words, the Windows Blue job listing is for testers -- not developers.

And of course, there's always the possibility that someone left Microsoft, and they need to hire a replacement.

Sustaining engineering (did they rename themselves "sustained" engineering?) is usually the group that puts out the Service Packs, while the main development team goes on to work on the next version of Windows.

So does that mean that Windows Blue is being developed by the SE team, while the main Windows group goes on to do Windows 9? If so, this represents a return to the simultaneous development that Microsoft practiced in the early 1990s.

For example, at one point, there were two groups working on Word -- one being a big-bang unification rewrite (Pyramid), and the other being an evolution of the existing code. The rewrite didn't work out, but Microsoft still had something to release. (If they'd done this for Longhorn, they wouldn't have ended up with the Vista debacle.)

TomJones said,
Sustaining engineering (did they rename themselves "sustained" engineering?) is usually the group that puts out the Service Packs, while the main development team goes on to work on the next version of Windows.

So does that mean that Windows Blue is being developed by the SE team, while the main Windows group goes on to do Windows 9? If so, this represents a return to the simultaneous development that Microsoft practiced in the early 1990s.

For example, at one point, there were two groups working on Word -- one being a big-bang unification rewrite (Pyramid), and the other being an evolution of the existing code. The rewrite didn't work out, but Microsoft still had something to release. (If they'd done this for Longhorn, they wouldn't have ended up with the Vista debacle.)

From the way it sounds service packs are no more now, so it makes sense that the team that worked on those to be working on something like blue now. But I think that you could be pretty right, they do the smaller front-end work while the main team keeps working on the bigger under-the-hood stuff and anything else new they have planned. Blue really just sounds like more ui changes and updates plus newer versions of the apps with little else.

Orange Battery said,
Really hope we see an improved Start Page with more features and management options.

Its the only thing that holds me back in 8.

It sounds like UI will be the main focus of blue which is a good thing.

GP007 said,

It sounds like UI will be the main focus of blue which is a good thing.


Agreed. There are things about 8 I like and things I don't... But I can't ignore the feeling when using it that it just wasn't "finished"...