Windows Mobile outsells Windows Phone 7 in Q4 2010

In the latest report from the NDP group, which proclaimed Android the world's leading smartphone platform, some more light was shed on Microsoft's current standing.

Although Windows Phone 7 didn't debut until November of last year, the shortened time span only enabled the OS to acquire a tiny 2% of total sales. Windows Phone 7's predecessor, Windows Mobile (6.x), outsold the new operating system in the Q4 2010. The outdated smartphone platform managed to gain 4% of total sales last this year.

Even though Windows Phone 7 was outsold by its predecessor, the slow debut of the new OS could be tracked back to its middle of the quarter launch. Microsoft launched Windows Phone 7 on two of the four major carriers in the United States, and with a limited number of available handsets.

Microsoft recently announced that it has shipped two million Windows Phone 7 handsets worldwide, far less than the number of iPhone and Android-powered handsets sold. Perhaps Microsoft's positive outlook on the Windows Phone 7 homebrew or the first update to the OS will bring forth a more positive light for the company.

Image Credit: Tim Dorr - Flickr

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SuperHans said,
and the WP7 fanboy award goes to...

neo158

17 comments so far in this article alone... and counting

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment shall I, seeing as being called a fanboy happens to be the only "compliment" i'll get on Neowin!!

neo158 said,

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment shall I, seeing as being called a fanboy happens to be the only "compliment" i'll get on Neowin!!

Go on then! The world can never have too many fanboys

OK... I think there is a valid point here. MS has to win over the consumers to get the pundits, critics, and manufacturers who are either skeptical or never tried the OS. MS tried to play it nice, but what they need to do here is "DROP THE BOMB"! They should

1. Fire the Marketing Team who has done a horrible job promoting the OS and get the team that promoted Kinect. They did a great job and it shows in the sales numbers.

2 (and here is the bomb) Give away a 4GB XBox 360 with every purcahse of a Windows Phone and a 2 year contract.

Here's why. MS wants users into their ecosystem more than anything. MS probably only makes about $30-$60(If that much) on each 4GB Console which sells for 199; however, if a person gets a Zune Pass and an XBox Live Gold account, its a total of $210 a year, and more than likely they will subscribe for at least 2. In addition to the up front sale, if you add in Games, Apps, Videos, and other purchases for accessories, you can expect that your average gamer will spend about $400 over the next 3 years of ownership of the Xbox 360. On the marketing front, you couldn't beat the publicity that giving them away would get you. Word of mouth would spread, and soon, you'd be knocking on the doors of Apple and Google with sales numbers.

The main thing that keeps Apple fans loyal is that they don't think they can port their music library to Zune. Make it simple for them and make it apparent that they have unlimited music with the Zune service, and that they get 10 free songs to keep a month and you'll have people flocking in droves to the platform.

Once People start using these services, MS would build a loyal following.

There are days when I don't understand why MS doesn't do this. It makes all of the sense in the world to me and the people I talk to.

3. Chances are that if you got a free XBox 360, you'd go get a Kinect and then you get that market buying those games as well. 4-8 Games a year at 15-20 bucks for licensing isn't bad either. Then you would have Apple, Sony, Nintendo, and Google quaking in their boots. Of course you'd have to deal with anti-trust issues, but worry about that when you've shut down Apple again.

And while you're at it MS... I think its time for Balmer to go. He's too much embedded in the "Windows" moniker and it's hurting your company. Time for some new blood with vision like Joe Belifore. Add some cool to your team.

Its all about the ecosystem.

whatever handset is pictured above is LAME! how in the world was windows phone outsold by its own oudated version of windows mobile?

I am sure its because majority sale will be from growing Markets like India and Chine. WM7 has not released there as yet. And Windows Mobile Devices are cheaper compared to Nokia, Samsung and SE.

this article is also wrong. WM6 devices dropped from 6 to 3% and WP7 went from 0 to 2%... That is not saying that WM6 outsold wp7.....

i love how all the sites ran with this..

The article fails to mention the price of the WM6.x handsets. Were they deeply discounted to clear them from store shelves?

Before I bought my WP7 device I always bought WM devices that were being phased out/replaced or heavily discounted to save money.

zeke009 said,
The article fails to mention the price of the WM6.x handsets. Were they deeply discounted to clear them from store shelves?

Before I bought my WP7 device I always bought WM devices that were being phased out/replaced or heavily discounted to save money.

+1 This is correct, retailers discounted WM6.x devices heavily in order to shift them to make room for WP7 devices.

Kinda tells you how well WM6.x devices sold at full price doesn't it!!!

Edited by neo158, Jan 31 2011, 10:29pm :

neo158 said,

+1 This is correct, retailers discounted WM6.x devices heavily in order to shift them to make room for WP7 devices.

Kinda tells you how well WM6.x devices sold at full price doesn't it!!!

I guess you will always find an explanation why WP7 is still not of any importance on the global market and try to convince everyone that this will change :rollseyes: . I predict that you'll invent some other reasons throughout the next 5 years or so...

vacs said,
I guess you will always find an explanation why WP7 is still not of any importance on the global market and try to convince everyone that this will change :rollseyes: . I predict that you'll invent some other reasons throughout the next 5 years or so...

I'm just telling it like it is, having worked in retail myself!!!

neo158 said,

+1 This is correct, retailers discounted WM6.x devices heavily in order to shift them to make room for WP7 devices.

Kinda tells you how well WM6.x devices sold at full price doesn't it!!!

Well WP7 at less than $1 on Amazon does not seem expensive, neither does $19.99 or buy one get two on AT&T.

I do not think that price is an issue, less than ever in the US where the Carriers "racket" control the market.

I tried wp7. Looked nice. The constant scrolling to launch programs not on the grid was major annoying. Totally needs multitasking. (I was listening to streaming music and went to check an email and it stopped playing the music.) Push gmail is nice. Netflix is a pretty cool addition too. The app store sucks. You have to pay more for something that you can get on android for a lot less and many times free. (And no carrier billing sucks)

Went right back to android.

djdanska said,
Totally needs multitasking. (I was listening to streaming music and went to check an email and it stopped playing the music.) . The app store sucks.

Really? Because i stream music off my Zune account, I check my mail and then my facebook with the music still playing. It just lacks third party multi-tasking.

As for the App Store sucks... There's stuff on it that's not even on the android market.

zombieChan said,

Really? Because i stream music off my Zune account, I check my mail and then my facebook with the music still playing. It just lacks third party multi-tasking.

As for the App Store sucks... There's stuff on it that's not even on the android market.

Try looking for "Solitaire" among the apps; the first results are all music related. If I am looking among apps why music related items shows up? At least annoying and not well thought .

Fritzly said,

Try looking for "Solitaire" among the apps; the first results are all music related. If I am looking among apps why music related items shows up? At least annoying and not well thought .

Yes, it is annoying, but it will be fixed in the first update.

djdanska said,
I tried wp7. Looked nice. The constant scrolling to launch programs not on the grid was major annoying. Totally needs multitasking. (I was listening to streaming music and went to check an email and it stopped playing the music.) Push gmail is nice. Netflix is a pretty cool addition too. The app store sucks. You have to pay more for something that you can get on android for a lot less and many times free. (And no carrier billing sucks)

Went right back to android.

I assume you didn't try pressing and holding the Windows Button to use voice commands to launch the programs then?

djdanska said,
Totally needs multitasking. (I was listening to streaming music and went to check an email and it stopped playing the music.)
Total FUD. Native apps (including the primary Zune media player) already have multitasking. You can keep streaming music running in the background while you check your email, no problem.

Sounds to me like you haven't even used one of these phones...

djdanska said,
And no carrier billing sucks
Windows Phone 7 has carrier billing already. You get asked if you'd like to use carrier billing or charge directly to a credit/debit card when you buy an app.

Again, sounds to me like you're just making stuff up...

Fritzly said,
Try looking for "Solitaire" among the apps; the first results are all music related. If I am looking among apps why music related items shows up? At least annoying and not well thought .
Try installing the app "AppFinder"

Specifically designed to search the marketplace for Apps, and nothing else. Has some nice features and filtering options. The first major update to the phone is supposed to add the same type of filtering to the native marketplace hub.

Edited by StarLion, Jan 31 2011, 10:06pm :

zombieChan said,

Really? Because i stream music off my Zune account, I check my mail and then my facebook with the music still playing. It just lacks third party multi-tasking.

As for the App Store sucks... There's stuff on it that's not even on the android market.

Yeah, that was a really uninformed post. Clearly he's just blowing smoke... I've listened to music as well and it does not just stop...

Fritzly said,

Try looking for "Solitaire" among the apps; the first results are all music related. If I am looking among apps why music related items shows up? At least annoying and not well thought .

Agreed, and that is fixed in this first update.

WP7 is yet to be launched in MENA and some part of Asia. No idea on when they are going to do so. HTC ME is not promising any date.
I cannt understand why Microsoft is ignoring one of the wealthy & loyal market place.

-ANiMaL- said,
WP7 is yet to be launched in MENA and some part of Asia. No idea on when they are going to do so. HTC ME is not promising any date.
I cannt understand why Microsoft is ignoring one of the wealthy & loyal market place.

Look at it this way, when it's released in Asia the major issues that us in the EU and US are having will be fixed. So it's better to wait in this case.

Well ofcourse it's going to be hard for them to break in, it's not actually been advertised much in the UK. I enjoy my wp7 phone and I'm looking forward to the updates.

derekaw said,
Those numbers are abysmal, in no way has WP7 been a success and anyone here saying otherwise looks like a fool.

It's still extremely early to say that it's been a complete failure, we haven't even had one update yet and just because it hasn't sold in iPhone numbers doesn't make it any less of a success.

derekaw said,
Those numbers are abysmal, in no way has WP7 been a success and anyone here saying otherwise looks like a fool.
No one should have expected WP7 to have beaten anything.

Anyone buying a Windows Media phone is simply an uninformed business person, and clearly that is a large segment of the market. Add to that, WP7 came out in the middle of the quarter, only on two of the main carriers, and in limited supply, which means it's obvious what the outcome would be.

pickypg said,
No one should have expected WP7 to have beaten anything.

Anyone buying a Windows Media phone is simply an uninformed business person, and clearly that is a large segment of the market. Add to that, WP7 came out in the middle of the quarter, only on two of the main carriers, and in limited supply, which means it's obvious what the outcome would be.

So I'm an "uninformed business person" for buying a WP7 device am I?

You do realise that there are more people buying phones than just business people, don't you?

neo158 said,

So I'm an "uninformed business person" for buying a WP7 device am I?

You do realise that there are more people buying phones than just business people, don't you?


Pretty sure he was talking about people who bought a WM 6.5 phone.

pickypg said,
No one should have expected WP7 to have beaten anything.

Anyone buying a Windows Media phone is simply an uninformed business person, and clearly that is a large segment of the market. Add to that, WP7 came out in the middle of the quarter, only on two of the main carriers, and in limited supply, which means it's obvious what the outcome would be.

It does not seem to me that MS is advertising WP7 as a "Media phone"......

Fritzly said,

It does not seem to me that MS is advertising WP7 as a "Media phone"......

TBH they have been plugging Zune Services on WP7 a lot so I can see why he made that mistake.

Even so, the Zune integration is fantastic. Being able to buy music and apps no matter where I am is indeed awesome. Yes, I know that the iPhone has had this for a while.

derekaw said,
Those numbers are abysmal, in no way has WP7 been a success and anyone here saying otherwise looks like a fool.

How do you define success, just in sales and numbers?

Ok, then let's use this measure...

This means OS X, Linux, and all other OSes in existence are horrid failures as their numbers combined are 'tiny' in comparison to the number of computers running Windows. (There are more computers running Windows7 that is just over a year old than all the Macs sold EVER.)

We can do this outside of computers as well, go look at Ford Sync and the hundreds of millions of devices runnings WinCE, that make all other device OSes look pathetic, even including iPhones and Android.

I however don't think your reasoning is a good measure of success.

I personally see success, even if WP7 dies off today. WP7 has pushed the market forward with new concepts from the consumer standpoint, that have sparked changes in Android and iOS phones already. (A lot of the Android feature updates in 2010 were in response to WP7 annouced features.)

WP7 from a developer and technical standpoint is also a brilliant platform model with the Silverlight/.NET platform that is structured using OS and development concepts that are a generation ahead of Android and iOS that is also forcing Google and Apple to push a little harder and rethink some of their platform model decisions.

Edited by thenetavenger, Feb 1 2011, 1:30pm :

Byron_Hinson said,
If they don't get that update out soon WP7 will become more of a disaster than it is already look in my view.

If WP7 turns out to be disaster, it's going to be disaster. An update isn't going to do anything about it. That said, WP7 isn't going to be a disaster. Microsoft designed a great OS that users like. It's tough to get traction immediately, but I think sales will accelerate once more and more of these phones are out in the wild.

bj55555 said,

If WP7 turns out to be disaster, it's going to be disaster. An update isn't going to do anything about it. That said, WP7 isn't going to be a disaster. Microsoft designed a great OS that users like. It's tough to get traction immediately, but I think sales will accelerate once more and more of these phones are out in the wild.

The more I use it at the moment the more I dislike it - so as a user who bought one I feel disappointed. Though I expected updates to be released in better time and 3/4 months after the launch isn't good enough after they mentioned one would be ready on launch day. It has too many annoyances to be a success in my view, that and games are too expensive! lol

Byron_Hinson said,
If they don't get that update out soon WP7 will become more of a disaster than it is already look in my view.

A disaster? where? give it a few more months then we can talk in such epic terms, the ONLY reason WP7 hasn't sold twice as many units or probably more is simply because it is OUT of the reach of millions of people, let it get to Verizon and Sprint and give it a few more moths after than, then we can talk.

zombieChan said,
Really, $3 is too expansive for a mobile phone game?

It is if it's a poor quality game, not all WP7 games are poor quality though and deserve the $3 price tag.

bj55555 said,

If WP7 turns out to be disaster, it's going to be disaster. An update isn't going to do anything about it. That said, WP7 isn't going to be a disaster. Microsoft designed a great OS that users like. It's tough to get traction immediately, but I think sales will accelerate once more and more of these phones are out in the wild.

Exactly. Good post.

Byron_Hinson said,

The more I use it at the moment the more I dislike it - so as a user who bought one I feel disappointed. Though I expected updates to be released in better time and 3/4 months after the launch isn't good enough after they mentioned one would be ready on launch day. It has too many annoyances to be a success in my view, that and games are too expensive! lol

Hm... I don't recall Microsoft ever guaranteeing an update to be released on launch day...

The results show marketshare, it doesn't show the actual sales, this just means that Windows Mobile users are still holding on to their phones, not that WM 6.5 is selling better than WP7.

Omen1393 said,
The results show marketshare, it doesn't show the actual sales, this just means that Windows Mobile users are still holding on to their phones, not that WM 6.5 is selling better than WP7.

No, it's sales, not marketshare.

Even though I trust NPD Group to have done the research it seems a little premature to declare WP7 a failure.

Windows Mobile handsets are only outselling WP7 handsets while the networks still have stock of them and once that stock runs out, people wanting a Microsoft OS on their handset won't have a choice.

neo158 said,
Even though I trust NPD Group to have done the research it seems a little premature to declare WP7 a failure.

Windows Mobile handsets are only outselling WP7 handsets while the networks still have stock of them and once that stock runs out, people wanting a Microsoft OS on their handset won't have a choice.

While all my systems, both in the office and at home, are MS based phones are different: you buy the phone, and if you are technically oriented as us, the people here, the OS you like not the brand.

IMO it is critical that MS start releasing updates ASAP in order to reassure actual owners as me and lure more buyers.

neo158 said,
Even though I trust NPD Group to have done the research it seems a little premature to declare WP7 a failure.

Windows Mobile handsets are only outselling WP7 handsets while the networks still have stock of them and once that stock runs out, people wanting a Microsoft OS on their handset won't have a choice.

I agree. VERY premature at this point. It's really very silly honestly... It isn't even on all US carriers yet...

dogmai79 said,

... when they get new handsets but that's just me or not. They're taking forever.


When new handsets are available on Verizon and I sell my Droid X, personally.

BoyBoppins said,

When new handsets are available on Verizon and I sell my Droid X, personally.

It would be nice to see an LTE 700 based WP7 device on Verizon, something like the HTC Thunderbolt running WP7 would be awesome!!!

BoyBoppins said,

When new handsets are available on Verizon and I sell my Droid X, personally.

Yeah, I wish Verizon would get WP7 so I can upgrade already...

As mentioned in the article, WP7 was released in November, and not even on all carriers, so this article just states the obvious. So..... yeah. Thanks for letting us know.

Betaz said,
As mentioned in the article, WP7 was released in November, and not even on all carriers, so this article just states the obvious. So..... yeah. Thanks for letting us know.

And lets not forget, it's only available on premium priced handset models - unlike Windows Mobile.

~Johnny said,

And lets not forget, it's only available on premium priced handset models - unlike Windows Mobile.

Windows Mobile was pretty much premium to, WM's flagship HD2 was quite steep when first came out.

~Johnny said,

And lets not forget, it's only available on premium priced handset models - unlike Windows Mobile.


It's not even that expensive anymore. Wal-mart's got the Samsung Focus for $28.88. And people still buy the Captivate over it.

Edit: Also checked Amazon. It's going for $0.01. D:

~Johnny said,

And lets not forget, it's only available on premium priced handset models - unlike Windows Mobile.

Windows Mobile was slow as a tortoise walking through treacle on anything other than a premium priced handset. At least with WP7 Microsoft seem to have put performance of the handset first, by enforcing minimum requirements to run the OS.

When dual core handsets appear this year, they will be the "premium priced handset models" so, those first gen handsets will drop in price as they will become the budget hardware.

neo158 said,

Windows Mobile was slow as a tortoise walking through treacle on anything other than a premium priced handset. At least with WP7 Microsoft seem to have put performance of the handset first, by enforcing minimum requirements to run the OS.

When dual core handsets appear this year, they will be the "premium priced handset models" so, those first gen handsets will drop in price as they will become the budget hardware.

Keep in mind a lot of these Windows Mobile sales are usually to business', who don't really want to be buying the premium handsets.

~Johnny said,

Keep in mind a lot of these Windows Mobile sales are usually to business', who don't really want to be buying the premium handsets.

Agreed, you have to remember though that Microsoft isn't targeting business with the first release of WP7. This might explain the slow uptake of WP7 handsets.

~Johnny said,

Keep in mind a lot of these Windows Mobile sales are usually to business', who don't really want to be buying the premium handsets.

Business people could not buy WP7 because, as it is, does not really fullfil business needs. Actual WP7 handsets are available at very cheap prices; much cheaper than the prices of the HD2 when it was was launched or the iPhone for example.

Fritzly said,

Business people could not buy WP7 because, as it is, does not really fullfil business needs. .

Which is one of the reasons Windows Mobile has more sales

Dashel said,
What business need does it not meet? It has all the essentials and then some.

Security mainly, but more importantly it doesn't have full EAS support yet.

Dashel said,
What business need does it not meet? It has all the essentials and then some.

Security: the phone is not encriptable and as neo158 already stated no complete EAS support
Tasks: this is a very important issue for a lot of people who use OK or other similar programs
Categories: I have all my items categorized
Calendar: there is no week view; no working month view
Syncing: besides the companies that are specifically not allowed to sync in the cloud there are a lot of people who want to simply sync with the desktop; If you check WP7 NGs you will see the amount of complains about this and also other issues.

>The encryption 'issue' is really overblown.
What EAS policy does it lack that you need? Bet its not supported on iPhone/Droid either.
>No body supports Tasks except BB, its ded. Same with Sync, its a cloud phone. Appreciate change.
Lots of nitpicking a new platform. While it will be nice when further fleshed out I doubt any of those are really business critical.

Dashel said,
>The encryption 'issue' is really overblown.
What EAS policy does it lack that you need? Bet its not supported on iPhone/Droid either.
>No body supports Tasks except BB, its ded. Same with Sync, its a cloud phone. Appreciate change.
Lots of nitpicking a new platform. While it will be nice when further fleshed out I doubt any of those are really business critical.

Well, considering EAS is a Microsoft "product" they should really have a full implementation on their own mobile OS.

I use tasks to help in organising myself and businesses do as well, for the same purpose.

As others have stated not all companies sync with the cloud, some prohibit it, as the data might be sensitive. Syncing with a PC would be the only way to go in this case.

The encryption issue, I would agree, isn't really a big issue as devices that use a microSD card for storage are more secure as the card cannot be read on any other device unless it's formatted. However, additional security wouldn't hurt would it?

Dashel said,
>The encryption 'issue' is really overblown.
What EAS policy does it lack that you need? Bet its not supported on iPhone/Droid either.
>No body supports Tasks except BB, its ded. Same with Sync, its a cloud phone. Appreciate change.
Lots of nitpicking a new platform. While it will be nice when further fleshed out I doubt any of those are really business critical.

Sorry but WM 6.5 supports all these features.

You might consider Tasks useless but guess what? The Office team, and they are still part of MS, consider it a key functionality in Outlook and I personally agree with them.
Finally what I appreciate is the opportunity to "change" as long as it is an option, not a diktat.

neo158 said,

Security mainly, but more importantly it doesn't have full EAS support yet.

The biggest drawback for a business is the lack of non-market application support (which is coming).

One of the major concepts around the original WinMo platform is custom applications and custom device support, where it had/has a lot of success in business.

This focus is one reason WinMo was never targeted at general consumers and instead was targeted at companies for custom features for employees and technical users. Thus the UI was also not updated as it was geared toward technical users and left for business to customize and based on the aged 1990s Windows UI APIs.

As others have partially stated, the devices were not 'cheap' as the technology needed for the WinMo platform didn't slope to consumer prices.

When WinMo phones were introduced, mobile CPUs and the touch/pen displays were expensive.

This fragmented the device market and made for some horrible OS directions as Microsoft had to conform the UI to work with various non touch/pen and flip phone designs, when it should of only been focused at a couple of form designs.

This is where Apple nailed the market by introducing a device at the right point of the consumer pricing and technology price point of being affordable and making the iPhone a casual consumer targeted phone.

The iPhone was not new technology, nor did it even support the basic features that WinMo had when it was released and iPhone users today enjoy. People that were WinMo users at the time, thought the iPhone was a joke by not having simple things in all phones like voice dialing and proper bluetooth support, etc.

However, Apple hit the price point timing well, marketed it to the base public well, and later did the marketplace right since they didn't have to support multiple carrier App stores.

Apple learned from their and other's mistakes well and waited until the hardware was cheap and powerful for the concept.

(This is also why the original TabletPC was not the darling the iPad was, as the screens were espensive and the computers didn't have the performance in 2002. If the TabletPC had been introduced in 2010 with the iPad/Netbook pricing points with even Windows7, it would have been the 'new' darling of the year.)

Xerax said,
Lets wait until 2011 Q1 because we can say if the good OS has failed in todays market

Even if it fails in the sense that it never achieves the marketshare of Android and iOS (which it never will imo) it will probably be around for however long Microsoft is now. This is IT for them so it's not going anywhere.

Xerax said,
Lets wait until 2011 Q1 because we can say if the good OS has failed in todays market

I personally would pin some of the blame on how saturated the market is Nearly everyone has a phone now, so it's mostly upgrades that are driving sales.
And then when Microsoft releases it only on AT&T and T-Mobile in the U.S..... They've got stiff competition between the iPhone and the many other Android devices that appeal to each person.

Personally, I would have LOVED to get Windows Phone 7. I was waiting for it before I got my Droid Incredible (drowned my iPod Touch too early). So when I heard it was coming to AT&T and T-Mobile first....I was terribly disappointed. Bad choice Microsoft, not releasing it on all carriers.

OrangeFTW said,

I personally would pin some of the blame on how saturated the market is Nearly everyone has a phone now, so it's mostly upgrades that are driving sales.
And then when Microsoft releases it only on AT&T and T-Mobile in the U.S..... They've got stiff competition between the iPhone and the many other Android devices that appeal to each person.

Personally, I would have LOVED to get Windows Phone 7. I was waiting for it before I got my Droid Incredible (drowned my iPod Touch too early). So when I heard it was coming to AT&T and T-Mobile first....I was terribly disappointed. Bad choice Microsoft, not releasing it on all carriers.

Absolutely, I agree. And then to not even release more information about when it's coming to Verizon and Sprint? It's just bizarre...