Windows Phone 7 locks-in microSD cards

Adding extra capacity to a Windows Phone 7 device via microSD card has been contentious since Microsoft launched its mobile platform last month.

Now, Engadget has discovered that using a microSD card in any Windows Phone 7 will prevent that card from being read from, written to or even formatted by any other device such as a PC, camera or printer.

Documentation for the Samsung Focus has revealed that a microSD card inserted into a Windows Phone 7 device is considered a ''permanent modification'' resulting in irreversible changes to the card. On an FAQ page for the Focus, Samsung states that once a card is added, ''it will no longer be readable or writable on any other devices such as computers, cameras, printers, and so on''.

''This includes an inability to format the microSD card for use in these devices,'' the page reads.

The page notes that even permanently removing a microSD card from a Windows Phone will not make it useable in other devices again.

Microsoft itself gives a similar warning via a Windows Phone support page, where it is stated that once added, a microSD card becomes part of the phone.

''The Windows Phone 7 operating system treats the SD card as an integrated part of the phone. This is in contrast to other devices, where you can use an SD card to increase the memory available to the device at any time or to transfer files to other devices,'' the page reads.

Meantime, AT&T has warned customers via Engadget that only ''Certified for Windows Phone 7'' microSD cards should be used in Microsoft's mobile devices. The reason, according to the mobile carrier, is that the Windows Phone platform ''requires a certified high-speed microSD card for optimal performance.''

At present, no such ''certified'' cards exist and no indication has been given as to when they will hit store shelves. According to Microsoft support documents, certification comes down to more than just ''a simple matter of judging its speed class.''

''Several other factors, such as the number of random read/write operations per second, play a role in determining how well an SD card performs with Windows Phone 7 devices,'' the page reads.

Engadget reports that random access speed is the key factor in determining if a card is compatible with a Windows Phone, and the cards best suited to the platform can reportedly only be bought in bulk by OEMs, leaving consumers between a rock and a hard place when it comes to beefing up the storage capacity of their Windows Phones.

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148 Comments

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Call me ignorant, but how many people actually swap out the storage in their phone into their cameras, etc anyways? If someone wants 32GB of microSD storage for their phone do they not buy one to keep in the phone? Just in terms of convenience it makes no sense to keep swapping in and out.

Not saying it's right to lock the card to your phone but would it not be a better situation to find out in the future if your phone is out of warranty your SD card failed and you could replace it instead of having to hassle the manufacturer to replace your solid state drive? They'd likely say just get a new phone, no? IMHO it's a little more convenient to buy your phone and upgrade storage as needed in comparison to buying something like an iPhone with a fixed amount. Sure you're out an SD card if you upgrade later but it's gotta be cheaper in the long run. Just a thought.

I listen to a podcast, Windows Weekly, on hosted by Paul Thurrott (the guy who literally wrote the book on Windows Phone 7) and Leo LaPorte's Twit network.

Paul explained that MS was pressured into the inclusion of the MicroSD card to begin with. I think MS wanted to make sure phones had statically configured phones without the ability to have removable memory. They should have stuck with there guns. It appears that MS folded and allowed the MicroSD card to be a memory expansion that would lock an installed SD card inplace. So not swapable and thus placed behind the battery. The thing is yes, they have said that performace will vary and compat will vary from differnt cards. I don't blame MS except that they should have held their ground. The manufactures should have just been given the option of using set solid state memory configurations like 4, 8, 16, and maybe 32G sets and that is it. But it is easy to make comments when you dont know all the facts.

I personally think that communication on how the SD cards are being used is where there is an epic fail on ATT and MS part. ATT should send out a free txt message and email to all customers claring up this situation.

bob_c_b said,
I think I'll wait for somre facts and a clear statement from MS and AT&T.

I don't think it can get any clearer. MS said from the very beginning that this is not a user-friendly microSD slot on the Focus - there's a sticker on the slot that warns about putting a card in - and now AT&T is saying don't do it. So if any one (like me) does do it, it's really at our own risk. I'm willing to take that risk.

reverseswing said,

I don't think it can get any clearer. MS said from the very beginning that this is not a user-friendly microSD slot on the Focus - there's a sticker on the slot that warns about putting a card in - and now AT&T is saying don't do it. So if any one (like me) does do it, it's really at our own risk. I'm willing to take that risk.

I agree completely, but I have feeling there are more options to it than we currently know. I bought my Samsung Focus knowing all of this and expecting at some point ATT will have a "certified' card, so I'm really getting at I'll wait for some more facts because this probably isn't as awful as engadget or most people here are making it out to be.

Fact is, most people, like 99% if you are realistic, will slap a storage card in their phone and never remove it.

no, it should NOT be visible to the user at any moment. That's the rule, if you do not want the user to change something, then you should hide it completely from the user and not put some sticker on it which says "Do not touch this" because then everyone will of course try to remove it.

if its not supposed to be removed, then it shouldnt have any user interaction at all. the sdcard should be soldered in the phone itself and the user wouldnt have any issues.

Mr aldo said,
Or put under the battery and have warnings on it.

Oh wait... It does.


No on the Samsung Focus it does not and guess what? The Samsung Focusis the best selling WP7 phone.......
About understanding what people want......

Fritzly said,

No on the Samsung Focus it does not and guess what? The Samsung Focusis the best selling WP7 phone.......
About understanding what people want......

I'm pretty sure they want the superAMOLED screen
Actually, those are the two reasons I want the Focus.
Expandable storage, and SuperAMOLED!!!!

Cry babies. In essence you want them to allow for the moving around of MP3's, Apps etc that you have a right to use not to distribute? I am sure OEM's and the Music Industry really likes that info. MS had to implement something in place to protect their rights and the rights of the developers, recording artists, etc.

I am no angel but I also see their reasons and can accept them. Look at the android market right now. I would have to be the developer there. You have applanet, mobilism.org, and the likes. Almost any free app you want. It is almost too easy to obtain a copy of an apk and share it. Apple has their share too. MS saw this and is trying to put mechanisms in place to protect their content, the developers content and the music and movie content. It has always been cat and mouse and why should it stop?

They are not liable for anything. They told you that it would happen, they publish that it would happen and they said do not do it. You are able to upgrade some of the phones to get 40GB's. Be happy with that.

They did not destroy your card they just made sure it was part of their system that you decided accept them you inserted your card into the phone.

There is no lawsuit here. Only complaints. Try to modify your car audio system and ask for a warranty when you added non OEM speakers and cut the wires. Or you flash an ECU upgrade to increase 2hp and then want the manufacturer who said do not modify our ECU to warranty your car when it craps out.

The argument can be true for hundred of thousands of things. Why should this change?

I would hug you if I actually knew you. Lol.

But yes, I completely agree. There has been sufficient warnings about this. Think of it like all those legal warnings on products to protect them, this is the same.

People have the right to sell software for money, and they have the right to protect their work. What is wrong with that?

mrmomoman said,
Cry babies. In essence you want them to allow for the moving around of MP3's, Apps etc that you have a right to use not to distribute? I am sure OEM's and the Music Industry really likes that info. MS had to implement something in place to protect their rights and the rights of the developers, recording artists, etc.

I am no angel but I also see their reasons and can accept them. Look at the android market right now. I would have to be the developer there. You have applanet, mobilism.org, and the likes. Almost any free app you want. It is almost too easy to obtain a copy of an apk and share it. Apple has their share too. MS saw this and is trying to put mechanisms in place to protect their content, the developers content and the music and movie content. It has always been cat and mouse and why should it stop?

They are not liable for anything. They told you that it would happen, they publish that it would happen and they said do not do it. You are able to upgrade some of the phones to get 40GB's. Be happy with that.

They did not destroy your card they just made sure it was part of their system that you decided accept them you inserted your card into the phone.

There is no lawsuit here. Only complaints. Try to modify your car audio system and ask for a warranty when you added non OEM speakers and cut the wires. Or you flash an ECU upgrade to increase 2hp and then want the manufacturer who said do not modify our ECU to warranty your car when it craps out.

The argument can be true for hundred of thousands of things. Why should this change?

First at all if I bought a MP3 song I have all the right to play it on any device I want; besides do you understand that people move pictures, documents and any othe kind of files?
Your rant is based on faulty assumptions therefore groundless.

Fritzly said,

First at all if I bought a MP3 song I have all the right to play it on any device I want; besides do you understand that people move pictures, documents and any othe kind of files?
Your rant is based on faulty assumptions therefore groundless.

Ever heard of a thing called syncing?? You don't ever need to remove the ****ing card.

Fritzly said,

First at all if I bought a MP3 song I have all the right to play it on any device I want; besides do you understand that people move pictures, documents and any othe kind of files?
Your rant is based on faulty assumptions therefore groundless.


try buying a song on an ipod and then play it on a different music player.

mrmomoman said,
Cry babies. In essence you want them to allow for the moving around of MP3's, Apps etc that you have a right to use not to distribute? I am sure OEM's and the Music Industry really likes that info. MS had to implement something in place to protect their rights and the rights of the developers, recording artists, etc.

I am no angel but I also see their reasons and can accept them. Look at the android market right now. I would have to be the developer there. You have applanet, mobilism.org, and the likes. Almost any free app you want. It is almost too easy to obtain a copy of an apk and share it. Apple has their share too. MS saw this and is trying to put mechanisms in place to protect their content, the developers content and the music and movie content. It has always been cat and mouse and why should it stop?

They are not liable for anything. They told you that it would happen, they publish that it would happen and they said do not do it. You are able to upgrade some of the phones to get 40GB's. Be happy with that.

They did not destroy your card they just made sure it was part of their system that you decided accept them you inserted your card into the phone.

There is no lawsuit here. Only complaints. Try to modify your car audio system and ask for a warranty when you added non OEM speakers and cut the wires. Or you flash an ECU upgrade to increase 2hp and then want the manufacturer who said do not modify our ECU to warranty your car when it craps out.

The argument can be true for hundred of thousands of things. Why should this change?


+1

ahhell said,

Ever heard of a thing called syncing?? You don't ever need to remove the ****ing card.

Regrettably you competely miss the point which is the faulty assumption that everybody is only interested in pirating MP3 and apps files.

Try again, repetita juvant........

Please understand what the KB article is telling you. The SD card slot IS NOT MEANT FOR CONSUMERS.

"The SD card slot in your phone is intended to be used only by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) that built your phone and your Mobile Operator (MO). These partners can add an SD card to this slot to expand the amount of storage on your phone."

The SD card slot is intended for ONLY the OEMs. This is an OEM creating a problem for Microsoft and it's users, not Microsoft creating a problem for its users. Unfortunate that it gets painted this way and these types of articles don't help clarify the issue at hand.

Well duh, don't you know if Microsoft is anywhere in the equation it is always their fault?

You must be new to the world of Microsoft

But yes, from the looks of the facts, OEMs wanted a microSD slot, not Microsoft. But everyone will just ignore that and continue to spread their lies anyways.

Honestly people why are we still putting up with this shiat. Lets just refuse to buy anything from any company unless they make it open to end users. Im not renting my phone or its operating system. I have purchased the phone and the copy of the os used on the phone. It belongs to me.

If we all get together on this we can change it. If most people dont give a frak then its just going to get to the point where you will be paying an extra fee for them to allow you to install a larger memory card (beyond the price of the card).

WesDog said,
Honestly people why are we still putting up with this shiat. Lets just refuse to buy anything from any company unless they make it open to end users. Im not renting my phone or its operating system. I have purchased the phone and the copy of the os used on the phone. It belongs to me.

If we all get together on this we can change it. If most people dont give a frak then its just going to get to the point where you will be paying an extra fee for them to allow you to install a larger memory card (beyond the price of the card).

Go ahead. Try to find enough people who care.

Honestly, I don't. I don't mean I don't care, I mean I see nothing wrong with it.

Oh, and by the way, you don't own that copy of Windows or Windows Phone, Microsoft is merely letting you borrow it. So no, you don't own your copy of Windows... Maybe the license key, but Microsoft can revoke your license any time they want in reality.

It's probably done this way so that you have to buy music/videos through a Zune like service on the phone or via software rather then be able to load it your self on the card.

abysal said,
It's probably done this way so that you have to buy music/videos through a Zune like service on the phone or via software rather then be able to load it your self on the card.

nope. You can sync up whatever you want with the phone. It just doesn't run a fat16/fat32 format. The device encapsulates the microsd to extend the core partition so it appears as contiguous space. If you do the same type of partition extension on any OS you can't remove the device you're encapsulating.

blahism said,

nope. You can sync up whatever you want with the phone. It just doesn't run a fat16/fat32 format. The device encapsulates the microsd to extend the core partition so it appears as contiguous space. If you do the same type of partition extension on any OS you can't remove the device you're encapsulating.

Oh ok, it's not that bad then.

blahism said,
nope. You can sync up whatever you want with the phone. It just doesn't run a fat16/fat32 format. The device encapsulates the microsd to extend the core partition so it appears as contiguous space. If you do the same type of partition extension on any OS you can't remove the device you're encapsulating.

Holey crap, an intelligent post. Good Job blahism !!!

IMO, this is considered property modification/property damage without permission. When I put in a flashcard, I expect it to work on any device.

I don't think it will stand in some countries.

ozgeek said,
IMO, this is considered property modification/property damage without permission. When I put in a flashcard, I expect it to work on any device.

I don't think it will stand in some countries.

Except from what I hear, the carrier/manufacturer should be putting in the card... They will undoubtedly tell you all this, and if you say no, they won't do it.

Mr aldo said,
Except from what I hear, the carrier/manufacturer should be putting in the card... They will undoubtedly tell you all this, and if you say no, they won't do it.

Exactly, this is supposed to be used by OEMs only.

Raa said,
Sorry WP7, you're done. That's the final nail in the coffin for me.

Geez.. adding a MicroSD to WP7 is like adding an internal HDD to extend your primary partition on. Once you do that, you don't want to remove it. Its not sold as a "removable media" but a way to extend the space available. way to blow it out of proportion

blahism said,
Geez.. adding a MicroSD to WP7 is like adding an internal HDD to extend your primary partition on. Once you do that, you don't want to remove it. Its not sold as a "removable media" but a way to extend the space available. way to blow it out of proportion

There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to take that microSD card out and reuse it in another phone one or two years from now. It's an insane design decision from Microsoft's side. Simple as that.

.Neo said,

There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to take that microSD card out and reuse it in another phone one or two years from now. It's an insane design decision from Microsoft's side. Simple as that.

In all fairness to WP7, I'm still trying to get my SD card into my iPhone. My Captivate wasn't any better, I got it in but it was slow as crap and doesn't sync with anything easily. OK I got music on it with WMP, no playlists? I don't build playlists on phones. I'm good in every way with WP7. My 16G RiData Class 6 is fast and furious and I haven't had a single problem. WP7's responsiveness runs circles around iPhone and Captivate and Zune destroys iTunes.

.Neo said,
There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to take that microSD card out and reuse it in another phone one or two years from now. It's an insane design decision from Microsoft's side. Simple as that.

I would rather purchase a newer faster higher capacity card in the future for my new device. Having the card locked to the device sounds like security to me. It would bother me more to know Microsoft would allow the card to be read/written from another device and have my content stolen from it.
Also, this is another way to keep unsigned code off the phone.

lordcanti86 said,
Welcome to 3 months ago?
Exactly. There is all this news about microSD cards, Windows Phone updates, etc. getting in the headlines, when this was *all* known quite some time ago.

Dessimat0r said,
Sounds like it's using CPRM protection: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...everything_you_ever_wanted/
Aahhh, I think you could be right.

Sounds just like what is going on here, according to the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...ection_for_Recordable_Media

"Content Protection for Recordable Media and Pre-Recorded Media (CPRM/CPPM) is a mechanism for controlling the copying, moving and deletion of digital media on a host device, such as a personal computer, or other digital player. " and "The most widespread use of CPRM is arguably in Secure Digital cards."

Mr aldo said,
Aahhh, I think you could be right.

Sounds just like what is going on here, according to the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...ection_for_Recordable_Media

"Content Protection for Recordable Media and Pre-Recorded Media (CPRM/CPPM) is a mechanism for controlling the copying, moving and deletion of digital media on a host device, such as a personal computer, or other digital player. " and "The most widespread use of CPRM is arguably in Secure Digital cards."

Putting the "Secure" in Secure digital cards.

eviltwigflipper said,
If this is true(which i doubt), a lot of people will be ****ed off when they try to copy pictures/movies to there computer.
I would think you could get the files from the microSD card through the Zune software, after all, if you add stuff, that's where it is added through (the Zune software).

Though I could be wrong.

You just couldn't take the microSD card out and put it into a microSD reader.

eviltwigflipper said,
If this is true(which i doubt), a lot of people will be ****ed off when they try to copy pictures/movies to there computer.

You mean they won't simply hook their phone up and sync it to the computer? You can't tell the phone to take pictures and store it on the SD card...

resol612 said,
If the phone in question was the iPhone, there'll be no criticism.
Of course.

They would just say "You put it in wrong."

xD

No one is going to read documentation.
This is a Huge huge negative against Windows 7 Phone.

People will expect this phone to behave as other devices do.
Sharing SD cards between devices is a common usage scenario.

figgy said,
No one is going to read documentation.
This is a Huge huge negative against Windows 7 Phone.

People will expect this phone to behave as other devices do.
Sharing SD cards between devices is a common usage scenario.

You do realize currently only one, yes one, Windows Phone 7 device has a microSD slot, right? You do also know that the microSD slot is *under* the battery, and not off to the side where it can just be popped out, right? You do also know that this microSD card is installed by the carrier/manufacturer themselves, right? You also know that they tell you, when you have the card installed, *not* to remove it, right?

How is this a *huge* negative for Windows Phone 7? Please, do tell.

figgy said,
No one is going to read documentation.
This is a Huge huge negative against Windows 7 Phone.

People will expect this phone to behave as other devices do.
Sharing SD cards between devices is a common usage scenario.


Except that the Focus is the only one that you can easily replace the microSD card (and even that has a warning label on it).

All the other phones have their slots below warranty labels. So no, the average user isn't going to rip open a device and void their memory just to replace a microSD card..hell the average user won't even know one exists.

figgy said,
No one is going to read documentation.
This is a Huge huge negative against Windows 7 Phone.

People will expect this phone to behave as other devices do.
Sharing SD cards between devices is a common usage scenario.

Really, like with iPhones, common to share phone SD cards. OK.

figgy said,
No one is going to read documentation.
This is a Huge huge negative against Windows 7 Phone.

People will expect this phone to behave as other devices do.
Sharing SD cards between devices is a common usage scenario.

Sorry, but this is NOT a Microsoft problem, this is a manufacturer problem. http://pocketnow.com/tech-news...e-memory-on-windows-phone-7

The SD slots are not supposed to be user-replacable and aren't meant for this scenario. This is one of those times that OEMs make the platform look bad.

owensd said,

Sorry, but this is NOT a Microsoft problem, this is a manufacturer problem. http://pocketnow.com/tech-news...e-memory-on-windows-phone-7

The SD slots are not supposed to be user-replacable and aren't meant for this scenario. This is one of those times that OEMs make the platform look bad.

+1

The Focus is the ONLY phone that makes it so easy to replace the card, and it's not suppose to be. Look at how hard it is to get to the card in the HD7 for example. Most users are now use to the iPhone way of it, you're stuck with whatever the phone comes with storage wise. It's only the minority on here and other tech blogs that care, and not all of us do actually, enough to crack a phone open and change the card.

The bickering of the niche minority isn't going to effect WP7's success overall, this is a non-issue to 99% of current and future smartphone owners imo.

COKid said,
Let me get this straight. People are getting all bent out of shape over a $20 card?
I personally would, what if I want to change phones down the road and not have to do a long ass sync to get eveything I used / listen back onto the phone (this is a personal gripe about my iphone too)... the card becomes locked to that one device id..

FusionOpz said,
I personally would, what if I want to change phones down the road and not have to do a long ass sync to get eveything I used / listen back onto the phone (this is a personal gripe about my iphone too)... the card becomes locked to that one device id..

Well, the way the OS handles the card's memory you wouldn't be able to just copy the data over without syncing anyway...

COKid said,
Let me get this straight. People are getting all bent out of shape over a $20 card?

Right, because all microSD cards only cost around €15...

FusionOpz said,
God forbid if this was an Apple branded device all hell would break loose.

Well, apple doesn't let you replace a battery yet alone add another memory card

blahism said,

Well, apple doesn't let you replace a battery yet alone add another memory card

At least Apple use Flash memory. not cheaper SD cards.......
No I do not use an iPhone; HD7 here.... for now

Fritzly said,

At least Apple use Flash memory. not cheaper SD cards.......
No I do not use an iPhone; HD7 here.... for now

You don't think Windows Phone 7 devices don't use Flash? You think they use microSD for everything?

Absolutely not... microSD is just to expand the space of the device, not to hold *everything*.

Fritzly said,
At least Apple use Flash memory. not cheaper SD cards
Flash is the storage type - SD cards are a type of flash storage media. It's the medium that's different.

blahism said,

Well, apple doesn't let you replace a battery yet alone add another memory card


Apparently you're missing his point. If Apple allowed you to expand any device's storage by adding a flash card, but as a trade-off that flash card would be permanently locked to the device in question all hell will break loose on Neowin.

In this case it involves Microsoft so it's suddenly more acceptable to many people around here.

.Neo said,

Apparently you're missing his point. If Apple allowed you to expand any device's storage by adding a flash card, but as a trade-off that flash card would be permanently locked to the device in question all hell will break loose on Neowin.

In this case it involves Microsoft so it's suddenly more acceptable to many people around here.

How do you know? It hasn't happened so that question can never be truly answered.

Oh, and another thing. If people would be up in arms about that for Apple, it would be completely different.

Know why? Apple makes the hardware and the software, meaning it would be Apple's choice to not only put a microSD slot in it, but also the software to support it.

The phone manufacturers wanted Microsoft to add microSD support, Microsoft didn't want to. Since they didn't want to, they went the route of making the user not have to deal with where to store stuff. Microsoft just made the software... Apple would be the ones putting microSD from start to finish.

Mr aldo said,
How do you know? It hasn't happened so that question can never be truly answered.

It's called making an educated guess based on past results on this forum.

It's probably by design. They don't want users removing and formatting the card because then the only option would be to reset the phone.

dekoy said,
Waht do you know, MS is effinh this product up and it's not even a week into the US launch.

Welcome to months ago when this info was already known BEFORE the phones went on sale.

i'm not surprised that ms did this. they want you to buy more phones if u want more storage then they won't let you except buy a new phone which costs more than a minisd card. ms don't do what apple does.

soldier1st said,
i'm not surprised that ms did this. they want you to buy more phones if u want more storage then they won't let you except buy a new phone which costs more than a minisd card. ms don't do what apple does.

There is nothing preventing you from upgrading the storage (plenty of tutorials), you just can't reuse the old card.

soldier1st said,
i'm not surprised that ms did this. they want you to buy more phones if u want more storage then they won't let you except buy a new phone which costs more than a minisd card. ms don't do what apple does.
What?

Like Microsoft cares, this would be the motive of the phone manufacturers themselves. Sure, Microsoft gets some money for Windows Phone 7 being put on the phone, but compared to the manufacturers themselves, it's nothing.

This is hardly news, since Nokia used to do this with their SD Cards for their devices. If you removed the card from a Nokia branded handset it after it's been "locked in" the SD Card wouldn't be read by any device that can take an SD Card. I don't think this practice is still used but this would need to be confirmed.

Windows Tester said,
This is hardly news, since Nokia used to do this with their SD Cards for their devices. If you removed the card from a Nokia branded handset it after it's been "locked in" the SD Card wouldn't be read by any device that can take an SD Card. I don't think this practice is still used but this would need to be confirmed.

which nokia device(s) you are talking about?

Or you just spreading FUD?

The only new thing here is that it "locks" the card. Otherwise it's all known and reasonable.

I would think with the right tool you could reformat the card, but it might not be able to be done on your computer at least.

Not a big deal to me, I've never ever had any reason to remove my microSD card from my phone, my wifes phone, or my old MP3 player. This affects a small portion of the userbase I'd expect.

I have a 16GB Kingston Class 4 microSD on order for the Samsung Focus I am going to get. Not worried or tempted to remove that once it is installed either.

zeke009 said,
Not a big deal to me, I've never ever had any reason to remove my microSD card from my phone, my wifes phone, or my old MP3 player. This affects a small portion of the userbase I'd expect.

I have a 16GB Kingston Class 4 microSD on order for the Samsung Focus I am going to get. Not worried or tempted to remove that once it is installed either.

Are you serious? Is it me or is everyone missing the point here? And what if they start telling/controlling you what you can install and what you can't "on your own phone"? What if they say you can't have "Name_Track_here.mp3" on your phone or you can't copy this to your PC? What if you want to make a backup copy (image the card) to save all your files?

rwx said,

Are you serious? Is it me or is everyone missing the point here? And what if they start telling/controlling you what you can install and what you can't "on your own phone"? What if they say you can't have "Name_Track_here.mp3" on your phone or you can't copy this to your PC? What if you want to make a backup copy (image the card) to save all your files?

No, are you serious? It is called syncing.

In order for that music (well, most likely) to get on the phone in the first place is via the Zune software... If you can put it on with the Zune software, you can get it off with it as well.

Boy, calm down a bit.

rwx said,
Are you serious? Is it me or is everyone missing the point here? And what if they start telling/controlling you what you can install and what you can't "on your own phone"?
Every carrier has done this to me and everyone else. That is the beauty of the internet, if a carrier gives you the finger then you can turn to the community.
rwx said,
What if they say you can't have "Name_Track_here.mp3" on your phone or you can't copy this to your PC?
I'll rename it.
rwx said,
What if you want to make a backup copy (image the card) to save all your files?
Being synced from/to another source this doesn't bother me. I've never had to do this and doubt I will either.

Mr aldo said,
No, are you serious? It is called syncing.

In order for that music (well, most likely) to get on the phone in the first place is via the Zune software... If you can put it on with the Zune software, you can get it off with it as well.

Boy, calm down a bit.

I am calm I am just thinking things through.

rwx said,

I am calm I am just thinking things through.

Thinking things threw in a paranoid way though. The fact is the ONLY way to get music on the device is if you have a Zune Pass, in which case it's streamed actually and not physically on your phone anyways, or it can be but it's DRMed. You'll have to use the Zune software, so you have a copy of everything on your PC already.

Locking the card so it can't be read by another PC or device is great IMO. What stops someone right now, and I've done this with other phones, from taking your card out poping it into their PC and getting a look at all your data on it? NOTHING! Well, you can't do that with a WP7 device, yay for privacy and security!

GP007 said,

Thinking things threw in a paranoid way though. The fact is the ONLY way to get music on the device is if you have a Zune Pass, in which case it's streamed actually and not physically on your phone anyways, or it can be but it's DRMed. You'll have to use the Zune software, so you have a copy of everything on your PC already.

Locking the card so it can't be read by another PC or device is great IMO. What stops someone right now, and I've done this with other phones, from taking your card out poping it into their PC and getting a look at all your data on it? NOTHING! Well, you can't do that with a WP7 device, yay for privacy and security!

Well, you don't *need* a Zune Pass, you just need the Zune software to put music on the device.

As for the second thing about "yay for privacy and security" -- I don't know about that. Is there some sort of encryption on the card? If not, there would have to be some way for another device to read it.

GP007 said,

Thinking things threw in a paranoid way though. The fact is the ONLY way to get music on the device is if you have a Zune Pass, in which case it's streamed actually and not physically on your phone anyways, or it can be but it's DRMed. You'll have to use the Zune software, so you have a copy of everything on your PC already.

Locking the card so it can't be read by another PC or device is great IMO. What stops someone right now, and I've done this with other phones, from taking your card out poping it into their PC and getting a look at all your data on it? NOTHING! Well, you can't do that with a WP7 device, yay for privacy and security!

It's *NOT* MSs decision what I do with *MY* hardware. Get off Microsoft's dick, seriously. You're as bad as the rabid Apple apologists who think Apple can do no wrong and all the stuff that locks down what users can do with *THEIR OWN* hardware is good. It's not. Once I've bought the hardware, they have no further say. Locking other hardware to it using proprietary systems to make it unusable elsewhere is not on.
IF they wanna lock mSD cards to the phone then they need to sell their own line of cards that can't be used anywhere but the phone, but taking a third party piece of hardware and locking it to the platform is bull**** and should, if it's not already, be illegal. I don't care what the agreement in the sealed box, that you can't read until you open it, says. The only way this shoudl *ever* be allowed is if they release software to reformat it back to a usable FS for other devices again.

lostmongoose said,

It's *NOT* MSs decision what I do with *MY* hardware. Get off Microsoft's dick, seriously. You're as bad as the rabid Apple apologists who think Apple can do no wrong and all the stuff that locks down what users can do with *THEIR OWN* hardware is good. It's not. Once I've bought the hardware, they have no further say. Locking other hardware to it using proprietary systems to make it unusable elsewhere is not on.
IF they wanna lock mSD cards to the phone then they need to sell their own line of cards that can't be used anywhere but the phone, but taking a third party piece of hardware and locking it to the platform is bull**** and should, if it's not already, be illegal. I don't care what the agreement in the sealed box, that you can't read until you open it, says. The only way this shoudl *ever* be allowed is if they release software to reformat it back to a usable FS for other devices again.

Um, NO!

It is not Microsoft's decision, it is YOURS. Get that through your head already!

There are warnings EVERYWHERE, EVERYWHERE warning you about the implications of putting in the card! It is your decision to put that card in there if you CHOOSE to do so!

See that? YOU CHOOSE! Not Microsoft. It is not Microsoft who puts that card in the device. It is either the manufacturer, the carrier or YOU. You are the one that asks the manufacturer or carrier to do so! Meaning you chose to do so! NOT MICROSOFT.

lostmongoose said,

It's *NOT* MSs decision what I do with *MY* hardware. Get off Microsoft's dick, seriously. You're as bad as the rabid Apple apologists who think Apple can do no wrong and all the stuff that locks down what users can do with *THEIR OWN* hardware is good. It's not. Once I've bought the hardware, they have no further say. Locking other hardware to it using proprietary systems to make it unusable elsewhere is not on.
IF they wanna lock mSD cards to the phone then they need to sell their own line of cards that can't be used anywhere but the phone, but taking a third party piece of hardware and locking it to the platform is bull**** and should, if it's not already, be illegal. I don't care what the agreement in the sealed box, that you can't read until you open it, says. The only way this shoudl *ever* be allowed is if they release software to reformat it back to a usable FS for other devices again.

Well said, exactly my point. You know, I cannot believe what I am reading (the people that threw flames at me). And I thought Apple fan boys were bad.....

Back to point. *No one* has the right to tell me what to do with *my* hardware and this is exactly why I have gone Android. I agree, they need to sell their own line of cards!

Imagine this, plug in your phone to your USB port and a drive letter appears as if it was a flash drive. What could be simpler than that? Want to listen to music? Just drag/drop or copy paste files to it. Create a folder and drop the files....Go and do that with WP7 and iPhoneOS!

But nooooo.....I have to go and kiss Microsoft's and Apple's ass and go through special rituals and check points just to put my *legally* purchased music on my device and load crappy memory intensive services on startup?

And for everybody's reference, I will never use Apple's iTunes crap store or Microsoft's Zune services with all that commercial crap they offer. I have been and will continue to get my music from sites such as beatport.com, discogs and gemm.....

P.S. Windows 7 rules

Xenomorph said,
Yeah, this doesnt make sense. You cant stop it from being wiped in another system.
The point of the story is: yes, you can stop it.

Interesting. I wonder how Microsoft managed this? It must somehow screw something up physically though I highly doubt that.

neoxphuse said,
Interesting. I wonder how Microsoft managed this? It must somehow screw something up physically though I highly doubt that.

MicroSD cards in WP7 is not suppose to be removal. Microsoft wasn't expecting this to happen.

day2die said,

MicroSD cards in WP7 is not suppose to be removal. Microsoft wasn't expecting this to happen.
I don't think Microsoft wanted microSD options in the first place, it was the phone manufacturers. So they did it because they wanted it.

Windows Phone 7 (when you add a microSD card) just sees it all as space. The Focus has 8GB, and then you add a 32GB card, WP7 just sees it as 40GB, not 8GB internal and a 32GB card. Kind of like what Windows Home Server does, it just globs all the space as one big hard drive and not multiple.

neoxphuse said,
Interesting. I wonder how Microsoft managed this? It must somehow screw something up physically though I highly doubt that.

It's a feature of the MicroSD spec, it's just rarely used.

owensd said,

It's a feature of the MicroSD spec, it's just rarely used.

Do you have some more details about this? I'd like to check it out.

day2die said,

MicroSD cards in WP7 is not suppose to be removal. Microsoft wasn't expecting this to happen.

LMAO it's a removable media, it's supposed to be (guess?) removed!
If this happen to my card I would definitely sue their asses.

What huge bag of fail this Windows POS 7 turned out to be...

GayWolf said,

LMAO it's a removable media, it's supposed to be (guess?) removed!
If this happen to my card I would definitely sue their asses.

What huge bag of fail this Windows POS 7 turned out to be...


I give your trolling an "F".

GayWolf said,

LMAO it's a removable media, it's supposed to be (guess?) removed!
If this happen to my card I would definitely sue their asses.

What huge bag of fail this Windows POS 7 turned out to be...

Removable media *can* be removed... Doesn't mean it HAS to be, does it? If the carrier or manufacturer installs it, they likely won't know it is there anyways.

How is this a huge bag of fail? Please, do tell.

Once again, there are warnings everywhere, if you are stupid enough not to read the warnings, that's your own fault, not Microsoft's.

Singh400 said,
Not even diskpart? What is the thinking behind this?

Thats what I was thinking while reading, there is nothing diskpart cant handle.

FTW!

1WayJonny said,

Thats what I was thinking while reading, there is nothing diskpart cant handle.

FTW!

Nothing except this little memory card that is

I somehow don't believe this. I don't understand how it is possible to make an irreversible change to a memory card. There is no 'lock' switch on MicroSD cards. You should be able to at least format it using Disk Manager...

Brandon said,
I somehow don't believe this. I don't understand how it is possible to make an irreversible change to a memory card. There is no 'lock' switch on MicroSD cards. You should be able to at least format it using Disk Manager...

+1 It seems just a scare tactic.

Will my man, believe it. I just received a Kingston 32GB class 4 micro SD card so I formatted it and then put it into the Focus. I then loaded the Focus up with about 15GB of stuff, took the card out and tried again to format it on the computer and lo and behold, the computer does not see it - even diskpart.

Brandon said,
I somehow don't believe this. I don't understand how it is possible to make an irreversible change to a memory card. There is no 'lock' switch on MicroSD cards. You should be able to at least format it using Disk Manager...

It's not locked so much as it's formated in a way that any other device or a PC itself won't be able to see/read it. I don't know exactly but WP7 probably uses the same, or a spinoff of the FS used by the Xbox 360 which is unique to that device as well. Or it could be encrypted in a sorta bitlocker way which also blocks HDDs from being used by other PCs if you do that to your HDD as well.

There are ways to do it in the end.

Brandon said,
I somehow don't believe this. I don't understand how it is possible to make an irreversible change to a memory card. There is no 'lock' switch on MicroSD cards. You should be able to at least format it using Disk Manager...

Vendor lock-in taken to the ridiculous.

GP007 said,

It's not locked so much as it's formated in a way that any other device or a PC itself won't be able to see/read it. I don't know exactly but WP7 probably uses the same, or a spinoff of the FS used by the Xbox 360 which is unique to that device as well. Or it could be encrypted in a sorta bitlocker way which also blocks HDDs from being used by other PCs if you do that to your HDD as well.

There are ways to do it in the end.

None of the things you mentioned above would prevent you from reformatting that drive on another machine thought. This does, so your examples don't apply here.

roadwarrior said,

None of the things you mentioned above would prevent you from reformatting that drive on another machine thought. This does, so your examples don't apply here.

From what I remember, they use a PIN system which protects the memory card with a PIN (I had a phone that did the same thing, absolute piece of **** it was).

shiny_red_cobra said,
I predict a lot of lawsuits coming from this little piece of information.

I think it should.. It's unbelievable suck thing in 2010 and unprofessional IMHO..

shiny_red_cobra said,
I predict a lot of lawsuits coming from this little piece of information.

How? It's been well-documented in the literature that Microsoft doesn't allow microSD cards to be implemented by the user. It's your own fault if you don't read what you agree to when buying a product.

shiny_red_cobra said,
I predict a lot of lawsuits coming from this little piece of information.

That doesn't sound legal and two it's easier to transfer stuff using the micro sd card. thats the whole point.

PatrynXX said,

That doesn't sound legal and two it's easier to transfer stuff using the micro sd card. thats the whole point.


What doesn't sound legal? Ayepecks is totally right, it's likely to be in an agreement somehwere, therefor making it legal.

I don't think this is the best idea Microsof has had either, but it will prevent a lot of problems on the OS, like I currently have with my phone where the SD card randomly becomes "stuck", and the whole phone starts freezing.
There's probably some logical explaination from Microsoft.

Eraknelo said,

What doesn't sound legal? Ayepecks is totally right, it's likely to be in an agreement somehwere, therefor making it legal.

I don't think this is the best idea Microsof has had either, but it will prevent a lot of problems on the OS, like I currently have with my phone where the SD card randomly becomes "stuck", and the whole phone starts freezing.
There's probably some logical explaination from Microsoft.


Sounds like WP7 is infatuated with microSDs and doesn't want to let go. Well as long as they both are of legal age, ...

As has been said, for a long time now, you can expand the storage with a new card but it's not removable. The FS WP7 uses takes it over and it's then not able to be read by a PC etc. We've known this for a month, if not months! What are the reasons? Simplicity for the user, no managing of where files and apps are or should go. Security, people can't take your card out and try to get at your data. Pirating as well, you can't take it out and try to hack the data on it and mess with apps or other things, also for all the protected content through Zune Pass and other services.

I can understand why it sucks, you're not as free to swap cards like mad, but I think it's sill to do so anyways, when I get my dell i'm going to drop in a 16 or 32GB card and never mess with it again, I have no reason to. At the same time I understand the design choices MS made and I think they make sense.

shiny_red_cobra said,
I predict a lot of lawsuits coming from this little piece of information.

Definitely. A removable media and its data that's damaged beyond irreparable (you can't format it again) will put Microsoft in serious trouble. It's total disrespect for the user's rights, I hope a lot people will protest this action from Microsoft in a court of law.

efthlouk said,

I think it should.. It's unbelievable suck thing in 2010 and unprofessional IMHO..

I know right. Almost seems like Microsoft went backwards when designing this OS. I have no problem whatsoever using SD cards in windows mobile 6.

GayWolf said,

Definitely. A removable media and its data that's damaged beyond irreparable (you can't format it again) will put Microsoft in serious trouble. It's total disrespect for the user's rights, I hope a lot people will protest this action from Microsoft in a court of law.
Give me a break. If the user ignores the warnings regarding the changing of memory cards then they have no one to blame but themselves. Sure it sucks, but thats how it is currently implemented and MS is being completely upfront about that fact and is telling consumers that only the manufacturers/phone companies should be changing the cards, not consumers.

Smigit said,
Give me a break. If the user ignores the warnings regarding the changing of memory cards then they have no one to blame but themselves. Sure it sucks, but thats how it is currently implemented and MS is being completely upfront about that fact and is telling consumers that only the manufacturers/phone companies should be changing the cards, not consumers.

Warning someone before doing something illegal doesn't make it legal.

If i warn you nefore hitting you right in the face it doesn't make it legal at all.

LaP said,

Warning someone before doing something illegal doesn't make it legal.

If i warn you nefore hitting you right in the face it doesn't make it legal at all.


Likewise, erasing someone's data is illegal. If a virus does this, you can sue the hacker. If you format the device on Windows, you can't sue Microsoft. The same concept should be applied to the phone.

shiny_red_cobra said,
I predict a lot of lawsuits coming from this little piece of information.

"You should not remove the SD card in your phone or add a new one because your Windows Phone 7 device might not work properly. Existing data on the phone will be lost, and the SD card in your phone can't be used in other Windows Phones, PCs, or other devices."

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831

GayWolf said,
... A removable media ...

Expandable storage, not removable media.
The product is marketed this way.
By purchasing the phone, you agree to the terms. No merit for lawsuit here.

Eraknelo said,

What doesn't sound legal? Ayepecks is totally right, it's likely to be in an agreement somehwere, therefor making it legal.

I don't think this is the best idea Microsof has had either, but it will prevent a lot of problems on the OS, like I currently have with my phone where the SD card randomly becomes "stuck", and the whole phone starts freezing.
There's probably some logical explaination from Microsoft.

This may be to prevent jailbreaking through boot-scripts or such on the mem.card, and may also be a part in the puzzle of piracy(apps)-fighting.