Windows Phone boss takes shots at Apple and Google

Microsoft's head of the Windows Phone division, Andy Lees, has been doing the interviews for a number of media outlets in the past couple of days. In a new interview over at the Seattle Times web site, Lees takes some shots at Apple about its upcoming iPhone 4S and its iOS 5 operating system, as well as smartphones based on Google's Android OS.

When asked if Apple "missed an opportunity" with the features of both the iPhone 4S and iOS 5, Lees replies, "Yes I do. I think, from an end user's experience on the software, there's a lot of interesting reviews written comparing us to iOS 5 and the amount that we've got done in 11 months — so some people [are] making comparisons of pace." He adds, "From a pure hardware perspective, I was surprised they're not giving the consumer more choice. People want a variety of different things."

In terms of the phones that use Android, Lees states, "If you've used some of the [Android] phones, some of them are great, but some of them are not great. But it's random. And it feels like, with some of them, that you've had several cooks in the kitchen trying to bake different things with the same thing. Whereas we have much more coherency in the totality of what somebody gets when they buy our phone."

Lees also talked about its plans for Windows Phone, saying that we should see some smartphones running the OS that will sell for below $100 for the 2011 holiday season. He also believe that interest in smartphones with Windows Phone 7.5 will increase, adding that "In terms of just the phone, having the choice of hardware and the quality of the experience are going to be accelerants. Over the next 12, 18, 24 months, I can see a lot of stars lining up."

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You know, MS should just stop talking about how things WILL be better for WP7 in some utopian future and actually start DOING things to make it better NOW. Like actually releasing new phones in a timely manner, fixing the incomplete Facebook integration (missing half of your friends updates is NOT integration, IMO), ADVERTISING the bloody thing so it actually has a chance of meeting those lofty goals of being number 2 in a few years time (yeah, right!), getting multiplayer and cross-platform play working with the 360, releasing games that use Kinect and WP7.

You can bash apple all you want but when the 4S goes on sale, their icloud and all associated services will work, seamlessly and as advertised. With WP7 we still can not play videos and use our BT headsets to listen to the audio! Just shut up, Andy Lees and get your platform moving!

LOL....I've never cared for Apple...just not my cup of tea, but MS is just foolish to think that Apple & Google missed the boat. MS is just crying sour grapes.

OK, I have looked at the comments and there are a few things that need to be cleared up.

One, BLACKBERRY, not Apple iPhone, not DROID, and certainly NOT WP7 are the choice of smartphone for the business / enterprise, period. That is a FACT! No company is going to invest in an Apple, Apple (by their own admission) is a CONSUMER device, not a business device. DROID isn't ready for prime time, it's too new, and let's face it not REALLY been tested yet.. WP7 has some nice features (I have one myself), but the one area for WP7 are the updates. I am STILL not getting my upgrade to Mango 7.5 as of this writting.. it's a little tough to test something when I can't get it pushed to my phone (Samsung Focus).

Two, ALL phones have merits. It's preference (like coke vs pepsi) that is ALL this is. I had a Apple iPhone, didn't like it, because as another poster put it.. Apple DID have ALL of these issues when the 2G came out (it lacked features, it lacked apps, it lacked VPN, blah blah blah). SAME arguments applied then.. that's why I dumped it. If you GAVE me an iPhone now, I will trade it for a DROID. That's MY preference. DROID however is a CONSUMER device, not targeted at business..

Everyone has an opinion, but one thing is for CERTAIN, the BLACKBERRY devices still RULE when it comes to corporate messaging and it IS the standard for communications in a LARGE enterprise, period, bar none. Secret service uses BB, the top Fortune 500 companies (pick any one on the list, call ANY CIO of any of them ask them who their OFFICIAL Smartphone is for email / phones, they will tell you BLACKBERRY). BB is THE standard for business class communication.

Does it suck? Yes, but it's easy to manage, it has the best way to collaborate across the enterprise, and companies have LOTS of money invested in the Blackberry. will the blackberry be number one forever, probably not, but the iPhone is NOT -- REPEAT-- NOT going to be chosen any time soon either.. iPhone has it's own security / management issues and CIO's do NOT like it, it's not the price either.. employees of said Fortune 500 companies can choose their own phone these days.. but the iPhone for the most part is STILL not allowed on corporate networks. Do employees use them, of course they do, but if you call the IT department and you mention your iPhone.. they will tell you are not supported, and hang up. iPhones are great for CONSUMERS, I don't like them myself.. but they are NOT worthy of businesses either.

Until someone PROVES there is something better than BLACKBERRY that's what LARGE companies will continue to choose. Yes, I know of ONE Fortune 500 company that DOESN'T use a blackberry (hint, hint).. but that is the EXCEPTION not the RULE (BLACKBERRY)

I like discussions with people with a passion for technology but can you avoid just reporting mindlessly the same cliche such as:
"MS is late to the party" (it "was" with XBox too when it started and now check the result);
"Android has better [fill randomly]";

Windows Phone 7 Mango update is a strongly competitive platform and it does by default all the things you have on other phones with apps. You can have a wonderful and easy experience on WP7 without installing any app at all.
Try share something on facebook or twitter or linkedin or windows live o by mail without installing an "app for that" on Android or iPhone, for example. Just try.

DaveGreen said,
I like discussions with people with a passion for technology but can you avoid just reporting mindlessly the same cliche such as:
"MS is late to the party" (it "was" with XBox too when it started and now check the result);

The console market is very different to the smartphone market. There are only a few major manufacturers (MS, Sony, Nintendo) for a start. And the level of innovation is pretty stagnant.

DaveGreen said,

Windows Phone 7 Mango update is a strongly competitive platform and it does by default all the things you have on other phones with apps.

Equalling the features of rivals might have been enough in the console market where things are stationary, but in the fast moving mobile industry, that's not good enough.

DaveGreen said,

You can have a wonderful and easy experience on WP7 without installing any app at all.
Try share something on facebook or twitter or linkedin or windows live o by mail without installing an "app for that" on Android or iPhone, for example. Just try.

Yeah and try and use youtube out of the box on WP7. And I use Gmail not Windows mail/live whatever. As far as Facebook is concerned, I don't use that either, I do however use Google+ which has great support on Android.

Joey S said,

The console market is very different to the smartphone market. There are only a few major manufacturers (MS, Sony, Nintendo) for a start. And the level of innovation is pretty stagnant.


Equalling the features of rivals might have been enough in the console market where things are stationary, but in the fast moving mobile industry, that's not good enough.


Yeah and try and use youtube out of the box on WP7. And I use Gmail not Windows mail/live whatever. As far as Facebook is concerned, I don't use that either, I do however use Google+ which has great support on Android.

As for console gaming, that's hardly stationary. In fact, the reason that Microsoft was able to gain such market share was because they innovated and change the game so to speak for their competition. There's really no difference between breaking into an industry like gaming and breaking into an industry like mobile phones. Except maybe that in gaming you need to have a lot more relationships on your side (Publishers, design firms, etc.).

MS is Late to the game in the terms that they let the windows phone system in general fall behind for far to long. In that sense yes they are late to the game.

Microsoft isn't late in the game at all. Microsoft has been offering pocket PC since 2001. What they have failed to do is evolve is significantly up to Windows Mobile 6.5 since until then, lets face it, there was no competition. One area that Microsoft was very late in the market was consoles. Nvidia and Intel refused to work on the original Xbox because "you cant compete with the PS2". Xbox 360 might not had a crashing victory over the PS2/3 and Wii, however, let's see market statistics, top selling console in August 2011. iPhone users blindly buy the next version of the phone simply because it is an iPhone without any retrospection of what it has to offer. Actually most of my friends that use the iPhone only do phone calls and send SMS alone. Android can be nice from device to device. I recently got myself and a Samsung Galaxy S II and in comparison to the HTC Desire and HTC Sensation I have to admit its a better phone by far.

Obviously the windows phone platform had a major overhaul with WP7. Moving on from WM6.5.5 I did feel a lack of features between the two platforms and one of them was not walpapers. Let's face it, you have so many gadgets, tiles or icons it is barely visible. I really liked the Samsung Galaxy S II but at a high level: The experiance between devices is totally different (sounds like WM), You need a different app for every piece of functionality while those apps do not look the same and do not feel integrated into the OS and often would not start with unknown errors (sounds like WM once again). It took me a couple of days to realise how I could put music on my phone and it never happened cos Keis will keep crashing.

Riva said,

Kies in general is a POS it does not support Android for 1 Kies Air which is on the SGS2 will work for moving things around. This is a known issue but it's not the fault of Android in any sense this is something you can blame on Samsung themselves. As I've read from others within the android community that have had this same problem is that Samsung tech has pretty much said Keis is for Bada (their OS) WP7, and Symbian. If you have an Android device Google will sync your contacts to their servers and mail as well. If you want to move files over to the phone or off of it plug in the USB cable and turn on mass storage which AUTO comes up on the phone and asks if you want to do it.

As for apps not all looking the same what apps look different? Every app I've played with and or used has pretty much the exact same feel/user support as something from iOS or even from my laptop when I get onto Google. Also you do not need a different app for everything as I said above you don't even need Kies period to use the phone on a laptop or even a desktop at all. The only real use of Kies is for OS Updates and as many people know Samsung is **** poor on them for the most part.

Microsoft should criticize itself - where are the high-end Mango smartphones that could compete with Android offerings like SGS2 or HTC Sensation or similar?

tom5 said,
Microsoft should criticize itself - where are the high-end Mango smartphones that could compete with Android offerings like SGS2 or HTC Sensation or similar?

Microsoft offers the OS only. If HTC was too Android focus then that is a different problem. With Nokia focusing their business on WP exclusively, things are changing. Take a look at the HTC Titan or Samsung. If by high-end you refer to dual cores then no that is not going to happen in WP7.5 and rest quite assured that WP7 and 7.5 can work quite fast on simply a 800MHz CPU

Riva said,

Microsoft offers the OS only. If HTC was too Android focus then that is a different problem.

HTC knows where its bread is buttered. Android turned HTC into a major smartphone player.

Riva said,

With Nokia focusing their business on WP exclusively, things are changing.

No offense, but Nokia makes low end crap, not high end devices like the Galaxy S II. If people are expecting devices like that from them, they need to think again.

Riva said,

Take a look at the HTC Titan or Samsung. If by high-end you refer to dual cores then no that is not going to happen in WP7.5 and rest quite assured that WP7 and 7.5 can work quite fast on simply a 800MHz CPU

Let's be honest here. WP7 really only displays simple graphics and text, so it doesn't need a lot of horse power. It also doesn't need a dual core because it doesn't support true third party multitasking.

tom5 said,
Microsoft should criticize itself - where are the high-end Mango smartphones that could compete with Android offerings like SGS2 or HTC Sensation or similar?

Mango phones are expected in the fall... We should be seeing them shortly.

Riva said,

Microsoft offers the OS only. If HTC was too Android focus then that is a different problem. With Nokia focusing their business on WP exclusively, things are changing. Take a look at the HTC Titan or Samsung. If by high-end you refer to dual cores then no that is not going to happen in WP7.5 and rest quite assured that WP7 and 7.5 can work quite fast on simply a 800MHz CPU

I was playing with a Titan today; personally I found it way too big; note that I have a HD2 and a HD7 so I am used to large phones but 4.7 is, at least for me, too big.

I will buy a Samsung Focus S instead.

And that's part of the problem. What happens in a year when Android has 4.0 being released here shortly (rumor has it the Prime is going to be announced on the 19th now) The UI on WP7 I honestly dislike do I give MS credit for the UI design and being original? Sure do but I personally do not like it and I've used WP for well over 3 months off and on. I dislike the fact that you really can not side load apps the fact that most sd cards will not really work for it also. It's got it's kinks but lets be real here WHAT Phone OS does not have it's kinks?

I do think MS is playing catch up though Mango is nice don't get me wrong but they as has been said are late to the game once again. While I understand development time takes time they should of really held off on releasing WP till 7.5 and come out swinging which they really did not do. While I've seen a few WP ads it's really not been much and it's far and few between. Something I do give credit to MS for is pretty much doing what APPLE did they took control of the hardware on the phone. This has let them roll out the Mango update a lot nicer then any Android update has been on a NONE Google Experience phone to date which is rather nice but for someone here to say Google is going to lose control just like People lost control of Linux and compaire it to Ubuntu is flat out wrong.

I do agree that Google needs to step in and make some Strick demands on the Handsets just like Microsoft did it would actually help (hardware wise) with a lot of issues I've seen on low end version of Android phones. But outside of that android is a great OS in it's own right so far all 3 OS's have their strong and their weak points neither one is actually better then the other it does come down to personal preference though and I prefer Android and have since the G1 and with my current SGS2 on sprint Once again Android won out.

People can argue Skydrive, Windows Live, MS Office and stuff like that on the WP but I can do the same things on my android to take an Apple term "there's an APP for that" and there are.

Frankly I'm super impressed by where WP7 team came from considering they started from ZERO 22 months ago. 22 months into iOS - Apple wasn't even close to releasing it! Now it's a different reality and even Mango isn't good enough in 2011, but Apollo should be in 1 year.

KingCrimson said,
Frankly I'm super impressed by where WP7 team came from considering they started from ZERO 22 months ago. 22 months into iOS - Apple wasn't even close to releasing it! Now it's a different reality and even Mango isn't good enough in 2011, but Apollo should be in 1 year.

Except the WP7 team wasn't starting from zero, they built upon Windows Mobile 6.5 and the Zune HD's OS. And I have no idea about what you are talking about when you say that "22 months into iOS - Apple wasn't even close to releasing it!". Can you please explain what you mean there?

roadwarrior said,

Except the WP7 team wasn't starting from zero, they built upon Windows Mobile 6.5 and the Zune HD's OS. And I have no idea about what you are talking about when you say that "22 months into iOS - Apple wasn't even close to releasing it!". Can you please explain what you mean there?

WP7 wasn't built upon WinMo 6.5 though... It was based on Windows CE, but a different version. I'm not aware of any code that was used in both... The backup service was even completely different...

M_Lyons10 said,

WP7 wasn't built upon WinMo 6.5 though... It was based on Windows CE, but a different version. I'm not aware of any code that was used in both... The backup service was even completely different...

Absolutely right, WP7 is based on a Win CE 6/7.0 hybrid whereas Windows Mobile 6.5 is based on Win CE 5.2 and the Zune HD OS is based on Win CE 6.0. So if anything WP7 is closer to the Zune HD than Windows Mobile 6.5.

It's a common misconception that WP7 is WM6.5 with a different skin.

neo158 said,

It's a common misconception that WP7 is WM6.5 with a different skin.

That wasn't what I meant to imply. My point was that Microsoft wan't starting completely from scratch when making WP7, they already had an OS to start with (CE), and had experience with adapting it to phones (with Windows Mobile). They also had a head start on the UI and media functions with Zune. As I said, they really weren't starting from "zero", as KingCrimson claimed.

the things that i feel are kinda holding back wp7 from a consumer standpoint, is a solid youtube and facebook app. those two are expected and must be well implemented for wp7 to be considered. whenever people ask to see my windows phone, they always want to look at facebook or search for a video. i know facebook is MOSTLY built into the people hub, but its still not good enough.
microsoft needs to bring a powerful, smooth, facebook app and youtube app that feel like they are part of the phone, quick loading... i just don't understand why apple can have a solid facebook app but wp7 is left out in the dark... but seriously if they want to go with the built in facebook, they need to expand it to include all of fb's features (see who liked a post, view groups, friend requests)

jasonon said,
the things that i feel are kinda holding back wp7 from a consumer standpoint, is a solid youtube and facebook app. those two are expected and must be well implemented for wp7 to be considered. whenever people ask to see my windows phone, they always want to look at facebook or search for a video. i know facebook is MOSTLY built into the people hub, but its still not good enough.
microsoft needs to bring a powerful, smooth, facebook app and youtube app that feel like they are part of the phone, quick loading... i just don't understand why apple can have a solid facebook app but wp7 is left out in the dark... but seriously if they want to go with the built in facebook, they need to expand it to include all of fb's features (see who liked a post, view groups, friend requests)

WP7 does have a facebook app And there are plenty of pretty dam good Youtube apps (the one I use is LazyTube).

jasonon said,
the things that i feel are kinda holding back wp7 from a consumer standpoint, is a solid youtube and facebook app. those two are expected and must be well implemented for wp7 to be considered. whenever people ask to see my windows phone, they always want to look at facebook or search for a video. i know facebook is MOSTLY built into the people hub, but its still not good enough.
microsoft needs to bring a powerful, smooth, facebook app and youtube app that feel like they are part of the phone, quick loading... i just don't understand why apple can have a solid facebook app but wp7 is left out in the dark... but seriously if they want to go with the built in facebook, they need to expand it to include all of fb's features (see who liked a post, view groups, friend requests)

There is a facebook app, and I don't really think the youtube app is that important, especially considering the site works fine.

I just got myself a Windows Phone (Dell Venue Pro, picked it up on eBay for $200) and I love it other than a few things:

*Maps and Navigation. What is Microsoft thinking with that maps color scheme? It's so hard to read anything. Navigation does not compare to Android.

*Real multi-tasking. It takes too long for apps to suspend and resume. I like to run and have an app track my running. Unfortunately with WP, that means I can not switch out of that app for any reason or it will stop tracking. The music playlist will have to be made beforehand, and all you can do is switch tracks.

*Skype integration would be awesome, as would GTalk, though I doubt that would happen officially. They should create an API to allow developers to integrate messaging services into the messaging app.

mrp04 said,

Real multi-tasking. It takes too long for apps to suspend and resume. I like to run and have an app track my running. Unfortunately with WP, that means I can not switch out of that app for any reason or it will stop tracking. The music playlist will have to be made beforehand, and all you can do is switch tracks.

You must be using an app that's not compiled for Mango. Mango apps do resume instantly from suspend. . For apps like the Running app you described Mango has bakground agents .Hopefully the app devs will fix them before long

/- Razorfold said,

WP7 does have a facebook app And there are plenty of pretty dam good Youtube apps (the one I use is LazyTube).

Exactly AND just about every Facebook feature is baked into the OS. I very rarely ever have to open the Facebook app. I don't think I've had to use it since getting Mango honestly.

And the YouTube website works perfectly well (AND there's a multitude of good YouTube apps to choose from). I used to use an app and now use the website exclusively.

WP7 is amazing. Im in love with the GS2 from a hardware perspective overall, but the sheer looks and speed of the WP7 OS make me want it a WP7 phone. Android is doomed by its open nature. Just like its father mr linux, forks killed its real chance to consolidate awesome ideas.....UBUNTU == FAIL!!! Google is going to lose control.

Maybe more people will take notice of what Microsoft has to say about a phone OS when they actually make one that a lot of people want

kowcop said,
Maybe more people will take notice of what Microsoft has to say about a phone OS when they actually make one that a lot of people want

+1 Haha.

WP7 in my eyes will remain kinda in the business hands, iPhone in the hands of rich douche nuggets and wanna be's whilst everyone else who wants a smaprtphone has android especially techies.

The rest of the world uses their Telecom R101 and cries when the buttons fall off

It's amazing how clueless many people on Neowin are. It's definitely a microsoft and android fanboy site. I know many people who use iphone for business. In fact it's probably the most popular smartphone for business along with the ipad. How may people do you know that really have Windows phones? I have yet to run into anybody with one yet. Does that mean it's a bad phone? No. There just late to the party like they always are. Apple has a clean os, great hardware that supports the os and offers what most consumers want. It's also the best handheld gaming device on the market right now in my opinion.

Auzeras said,
WP7 in my eyes will remain kinda in the business hands, iPhone in the hands of rich douche nuggets and wanna be's whilst everyone else who wants a smaprtphone has android especially techies.

The rest of the world uses their Telecom R101 and cries when the buttons fall off

Boyd Petersen said,
It's amazing how clueless many people on Neowin are. It's definitely a microsoft and android fanboy site. I know many people who use iphone for business. In fact it's probably the most popular smartphone for business along with the ipad. How may people do you know that really have Windows phones? I have yet to run into anybody with one yet. Does that mean it's a bad phone? No. There just late to the party like they always are. Apple has a clean os, great hardware that supports the os and offers what most consumers want. It's also the best handheld gaming device on the market right now in my opinion.

So what is not "clean" about WP7?

Boyd Petersen said,
It's amazing how clueless many people on Neowin are. It's definitely a microsoft and android fanboy site. I know many people who use iphone for business. In fact it's probably the most popular smartphone for business along with the ipad. How may people do you know that really have Windows phones? I have yet to run into anybody with one yet. Does that mean it's a bad phone? No. There just late to the party like they always are. Apple has a clean os, great hardware that supports the os and offers what most consumers want. It's also the best handheld gaming device on the market right now in my opinion.

Clueless? No, that would be making statements like "I know many people who use iphone for business. In fact it's probably the most popular smartphone for business along with the ipad.". Dear lord that's dumb.

dangel said,

Clueless? No, that would be making statements like "I know many people who use iphone for business. In fact it's probably the most popular smartphone for business along with the ipad.". Dear lord that's dumb.


Really?
Read up statistics, bro.

GS:mac

dangel said,

Clueless? No, that would be making statements like "I know many people who use iphone for business. In fact it's probably the most popular smartphone for business along with the ipad.". Dear lord that's dumb.

Exchange support. iPhone has it and ironically WP7 does not. End of story. That's the main reason that businesses are trading in their Blackberries for iPhones.

roadwarrior said,

Exchange support. iPhone has it and ironically WP7 does not. End of story. That's the main reason that businesses are trading in their Blackberries for iPhones.

It doesn't? I was under the impression that it not only supports Exchange, but it also supports multiple Exchange accounts, something I can't get my iPhone to do.

WP7 in my eyes will remain kinda in the business hands, iPhone in the hands of rich douche nuggets and wanna be's whilst everyone else who wants a smaprtphone has android especially techies.

The rest of the world uses their Telecom R101 and cries when the buttons fall off

Auzeras said,
WP7 in my eyes will remain kinda in the business hands

Except that businesses are buying iPhones and iPads like there's no tomorrow, and RIM rules the business world at the moment. Microsoft even stated themselves that WP7 is targeted at consumers, not businesses.

Joey S said,

Except that businesses are buying iPhones and iPads like there's no tomorrow, and RIM rules the business world at the moment. Microsoft even stated themselves that WP7 is targeted at consumers, not businesses.

Microsoft said that it was targeted at Consumers first and they would add business features in as they went. Their goal is still to target both.

Joey S said,

Except that businesses are buying iPhones and iPads like there's no tomorrow, and RIM rules the business world at the moment. Microsoft even stated themselves that WP7 is targeted at consumers, not businesses.

Exactly, M_Lyons10 and yourself have hit the nail on the head. WP7 is targeted at consumers first and foremost, not businesses.

More expensive Androids are great for the most part and really. The cheaper Android phones are just low end phones that are really made for a different set of people. If all I am going to do is email, Facebook, and light browsing...why buy a $400+ phone when a 100-200 android would do what I need and save me some money. I wonder how many people buy something and dont ever use it to its full potential. Waste of money IMO.

And a lot of people do want choice. Then again, a lot of people want to be told what they want and dont like to think to much about it. Why you do your research and make sure you know what you are getting and that it suits your needs. Whether it be Apple, Android, or WP7.

He's right on few things but he mentiones choice/variety when it comes to iOS vs WP. Then he says Android and variety is kinda bad compared to WP where it's same.

WP is definitely doing some good stuff though, i'd be the last to say they suck. I tried it for about 2 month with Samsung Focus and I liked lots of stuff about it, lack of "choice" in some situations was one thing i didn't like.

Excellent points. Lee is right about a few things. Apple is totally missing the point with what consumers want and yes he is right about some Android phones are great and some aren't. But you see here, that's the point. There is an Android phone for everyone.

But I'm sure he meant the low-end Android phones and the no name Android phones (like Pantec). I always tell everyone that is looking to buy an Android phone a couple of things. 1) Don't buy a cheap phone (specs, close to end of product life, and specifically manufactures that are not known for Android). 2) If you spend between $199 to $299 on a phone you are getting your money's worth. You see in the U.S. you pay around $30 for the data plan. Multiply that by 24 months and your phone is a lot cheaper than your data plan still. So why one earth would you skimp out especially when you are locked in a two year contract? That baffles me. If you don't follow this method, you have no right to complain.

Thankfully for me I upgrade every year since I am a gadget freak. In a sense, I over pay for my phones

UndergroundWire said,
Apple is totally missing the point with what consumers want

1 Million people already disagree with you on that statement... However i am not one of those Million

brent3000 said,

1 Million people already disagree with you on that statement... However i am not one of those Million

They are not targeting that 1,000,000 people they are targeting the remaining 6,774,000,000 people that can not afford or choose not to own a new Apple iPhone. The people Apple do not care about.

UndergroundWire said,
Excellent points. Lee is right about a few things. Apple is totally missing the point with what consumers want

Apple will sell 25 million iPhone 4S according to analysts in this quarter.

KingCrimson said,

Apple will sell 25 million iPhone 4S according to analysts in this quarter.

Too bad for WP7 right. They really could have stolen the show.

UndergroundWire said,
and yes he is right about some Android phones are great and some aren't

It's pretty funny really because the same can be said of WP7 or Symbian as well. It's all about the hardware.the manufacturer uses. If that's the worst criticism of Android Andy Lees can think of, he's in trouble.

Joey S said,

It's pretty funny really because the same can be said of WP7 or Symbian as well. It's all about the hardware.the manufacturer uses. If that's the worst criticism of Android Andy Lees can think of, he's in trouble.

Having owned an Android device I think Android is going down the route of Windows Mobile and that's not good.

No minimum specs, a wide variety of screen sizes, resolutions and form factors. So while I would agree that with Android there's a phone for everyone, I'm not convinced that it's a good thing.

neo158 said,

Having owned an Android device I think Android is going down the route of Windows Mobile and that's not good.

What are you saying? Android will not be popular anymore then years later Google will release Android Phone 7 (AP7 for short) with a horrible user interface. Of course it won't gain any market share because they are old and washed up. No one will buy it?

I'm scared.

No minimum specs, a wide variety of screen sizes, resolutions and form factors. So while I would agree that with Android there's a phone for everyone, I'm not convinced that it's a good thing.

You are exaggerating of course. A wide variety of resolutions? Hmm, you are imagining things. Why don't we go by what them major carriers released this year? Well over 90% of phones this year, I only count 2 types of resolutions.

Wide variety of form factors and screen sizes. Of course because people are not robots. They all have different preferences.

"Lees also talked about its plans for Windows Phone, saying that we should see some smartphones running the OS that will sell for below $100 for the 2011 holiday season." Wow.

zikalify said,
"Lees also talked about its plans for Windows Phone, saying that we should see some smartphones running the OS that will sell for below $100 for the 2011 holiday season." Wow.

He means under 100 on contract. Which really means $anything.

FATILA said,

He means under 100 on contract. Which really means $anything.


Arnt most WP7 devices free on contracts these days?

Both Optus and Vodafone have been handing out the Tropy and Omnia's free on $29 plans (Some even on 12 month contracts) for at least the past few months

FATILA said,
He means under 100 on contract. Which really means $anything.

Negatory. MS recently lowered minimum specs to just above the $50 tablet being produced for India by that British outfit.

It could happen that Windows Phone will appear in the convenience store rack within the next 18 months.

FATILA said,

He means under 100 on contract. Which really means $anything.


They really inteded free devices under 100€/$. Nokia will have many and Elop just declared, months ago, that his company has the intention to flood the market with a wide range of devices from low to high end.
And if you think about it it's more easy to do that (buying free devices) with WP7 or Android since you can easily buy a phone and put your sim inside, thing that you can't do with an iPhone on your own.

brent3000 said,

Arnt most WP7 devices free on contracts these days?

I've seen a couple in the UK that were free with a contract. I think it's standard practise for the lower end phones. Unfortunately, even that doesn't seem to be attracting buyers. Android however, is selling like hot cakes.

brent3000 said,

Arnt most WP7 devices free on contracts these days?

It is getting that way, at least for first-gen WP7 devices. I got my HD7 free from T-Mobile here in the US a couple of months ago, and I saw that AT&T recently started selling the HD7s for $0.01 (basically free). They are all probably trying to clear stock before the second-gen phones start rolling in.

Joey S said,

I've seen a couple in the UK that were free with a contract. I think it's standard practise for the lower end phones. Unfortunately, even that doesn't seem to be attracting buyers. Android however, is selling like hot cakes.

Well, with WP7 devices equaling 30% of HTC's sales, I'd say the popularity of WP7 has been underestimated. It could still be better (And I'm sure it will be), but they're hardly not selling any devices...

If I was constantly "late to the party" like Microsoft, I'm sure I'd open my mouth to get attention too. That's all it is, because WP7 doesn't offer anything over what we already have. They have released one major -- but long overdue -- update, but all it did was bring the platform up to speed with the rest of them. When WP7 can give us a real reason to switch I think they'll get more attention.

bjoswald said,
If I was constantly "late to the party" like Microsoft, I'm sure I'd open my mouth to get attention too. That's all it is, because WP7 doesn't offer anything over what we already have. They have released one major -- but long overdue -- update, but all it did was bring the platform up to speed with the rest of them. When WP7 can give us a real reason to switch I think they'll get more attention.

The reasons to switch were present in the first iteration (speed, smoothness, UI, connected services, etc). All mango did was bring the feature set up to the point where people can no longer say "WP7 is a lot nicer than Android, but it can't do x"

geoken said,

The reasons to switch were present in the first iteration (speed, smoothness, UI, connected services, etc). All mango did was bring the feature set up to the point where people can no longer say "WP7 is a lot nicer than Android, but it can't do x"

It still can't do GPS navigation better than Google (I rely on that heavily). It's still not as popular as iOS and Android which means the quality of apps on the market is still lacking. Yeah I think I shall pass until they become a contender (if applicable).

bjoswald said,
If I was constantly "late to the party" like Microsoft, I'm sure I'd open my mouth to get attention too. That's all it is, because WP7 doesn't offer anything over what we already have. They have released one major -- but long overdue -- update, but all it did was bring the platform up to speed with the rest of them. When WP7 can give us a real reason to switch I think they'll get more attention.

well noone is telling you to switch.
and there are alot of people who have switched from android and iPhone to wp7.

and i guess Xbox live, office, skydrive integration, Windows live/Facebook integration and chat, live tiles which basically means no icons but animated "squares" with information. camera button which was even copied same as camera roll.
and you know, it Works smooth even with 1 core processor and it got a really nice UI.

and future its going to be like multiplayer with Windows and Xbox. and skype integrated and well make ecosystem stronger and more integrated.

but if microsoft ecosystem doesn't adapt to your likings or needs nothing will. but i havent seen skydrive, nor office, nor Xbox live on other phones so i guess your "anything over what we already have" its just wrong.

UndergroundWire said,

It still can't do GPS navigation better than Google (I rely on that heavily). It's still not as popular as iOS and Android which means the quality of apps on the market is still lacking. Yeah I think I shall pass until they become a contender (if applicable).

Okay, really? I personally don't know about the GPS navigation stuff, but being as popular as another operating system doesn't make it worse than another operating system. Can you say that the Mac OS is worse than Windows because Macs are less popular? (The only big difference between Windows and Mac OS are simply the different UIs...) And WP7 apps are designed to make sure they all have quality... The apps I've seen and worked with are great... I personally believe WP7 is already a contender...

But if you don't want to get a Windows Phone, that's your choice. I'm not making you get one, nor is anyone else.

JaykeBird said,

Okay, really? I personally don't know about the GPS navigation stuff, but being as popular as another operating system doesn't make it worse than another operating system. Can you say that the Mac OS is worse than Windows because Macs are less popular?

Until last year, it lacked AutoCAD. It still lacks ArcGIS and it lacks a lot of industry standard financial software (I've been told by my brother). So yeah, I would say that. Thanks for clearing things up /s

bjoswald said,
If I was constantly "late to the party" like Microsoft, I'm sure I'd open my mouth to get attention too. That's all it is, because WP7 doesn't offer anything over what we already have. They have released one major -- but long overdue -- update, but all it did was bring the platform up to speed with the rest of them. When WP7 can give us a real reason to switch I think they'll get more attention.

+1
It's nice to see others see reality instead of spouting fan boyism when it comes to WP7. Let's face it, it's a failure by any measurement.

I've got no problem with WP7 or Microsoft software, but how Andy Lees can criticise other "Successful" platforms when his is doing so poorly and keep a straight face is beyond me. Maybe if he spent as much time on WP7 as he does whining about the competition, he might actually produce a product people want to buy.

geoken said,
"WP7 is a lot nicer than Android, but it can't do x"

WP7 still can't do VPN, Tethering, Sync directly with Outlook and many other things. Its a real shame that Apple iPhone product is better for business inside standard Microsoft network than Windows Phone. Windows Phone is still a laughing stock at the moment. All business people I know hate their Windows Phones when confronted with feature arguments of iPhone users.

geoken said,

The reasons to switch were present in the first iteration (speed, smoothness, UI, connected services, etc). All mango did was bring the feature set up to the point where people can no longer say "WP7 is a lot nicer than Android, but it can't do x"

Agreed. And I personally love all of the Android or iOS fanbois that say WP7 doesn't do this or that bug completely ignore all of the things that WP7 does that Android and iOS don't. It's silly. I will never understand why trolling makes people feel better about themselves...

Joey S said,

+1
It's nice to see others see reality instead of spouting fan boyism when it comes to WP7. Let's face it, it's a failure by any measurement.

I've got no problem with WP7 or Microsoft software, but how Andy Lees can criticise other "Successful" platforms when his is doing so poorly and keep a straight face is beyond me. Maybe if he spent as much time on WP7 as he does whining about the competition, he might actually produce a product people want to buy.


To be honest I have been agreeing that it has been a failure right up until the mango update. It really brought it up to today's standards, but still lacks some features

EJocys said,

WP7 still can't do VPN, Tethering, Sync directly with Outlook and many other things. Its a real shame that Apple iPhone product is better for business inside standard Microsoft network than Windows Phone. Windows Phone is still a laughing stock at the moment. All business people I know hate their Windows Phones when confronted with feature arguments of iPhone users.

If I recall correctly, the iPhone has never done all that stuff since launch, it took a few years to get those features added.

M_Lyons10 said,

Agreed. And I personally love all of the Android or iOS fanbois that say WP7 doesn't do this or that bug completely ignore all of the things that WP7 does that Android and iOS don't. It's silly. I will never understand why trolling makes people feel better about themselves...

Have you ever considered that different people have different priorities?
I cannot care less for FB integration, I avoid social networks as the plague, but I am very interested in VPN.
Different people, different priorities...... simple as that.
Sure, labeling dissenting people as "trolls" is easier than thinking and wondering why opinions could differ.

UndergroundWire said,

It still can't do GPS navigation better than Google (I rely on that heavily). It's still not as popular as iOS and Android which means the quality of apps on the market is still lacking. Yeah I think I shall pass until they become a contender (if applicable).

Um, have you seriously used it?

I thought it WP7 Mango's new Bing Navigation looked anemic and featureless, but after giving it a try, it shocked the hell out of me.

Compared to Google Navigation, it is also more accurate, especially in remote areas.

I like how it does the tones to reassure you are traveling the right path, without the annoying, voice repeating itself, and the ability to tap the phone without looking at it to have re state something or get more information.

It also gives a nice route information list, that is large and easy to read through to get an idea of where you are going.

The caching of the route is also nice, so when you run out of 3G areas it still keeps working. And no the new caching in the updated Google Navigation doesn't compare, as it doesn't pull the full route, just a chunk of a long journey, expecting to have data access for the next chunk, which seems to guess wrong the last few times I have used it.

It also performs well and doesn't eat the battery like Google Navigation. (Which is notorious for overheating and crashing androids as well.

Another cool thing is the multi-tasking and state save features of the Navigation on WP7.

1) Multi-tasking, you don't have to worry that WP7 will close the Navigation App if you open other Apps like Android does.

2) I dropped my WP7 phone getting out of car with Nav running, battery popped out. I was surprised when I put the battery back in, and click on Navigation, it just picked up where it left off. Very smooth.


I do have a bit of hate for Google Nav when I have tried to depend on it long trips through nowhere...

First time was getting sleepy and finding myself on a freaking mountain side route with my Android. I had no cell/data connection, and had to drive on over the mountain toward lights, do a self guess of where the towers might be for data, and then stand on my Corvette holding my phone like Mr Bean getting TV reception just to figure out where it had taken me. This was not a good Google Nav experience.

PS I was a fan of Navigon, both dedicated GPS units and Windows Phone Mobile versions. Which is available for Android, iOS, and WP7, but isn't cheap.

Navigon was/is ahead of its time compared to most GPS devices or software. It has all data, and no need for network access, great city features like real lane information, and extra prompts when you need to get over several lanes in places like LA, and the best feature is Speed Limits with Vehicle speed and a warning if you are going way too fast in some speed trap town. (Which is something that other traditional GPS makers have started to add as well.)

So for real navigation, I think sticking with Google Navigation is a bit silly if it is an important feature, as you are missing out on features and accuracy compared to Navigon or GPS maker software offering for Android or WP7.

thenetavenger said,

Um, have you seriously used it?

I thought it WP7 Mango's new Bing Navigation looked anemic and featureless, but after giving it a try, it shocked the hell out of me.

You have valid points but Bing greatest issue/weakness is that there are....... two "Bing experience":

Bing in the US

Bing in the rest of the World

The first one is excellent, very useful and not for navigation related tasks only.

The second is lacking so many features of the previous one that make the overall experience very unsatisfactory.

I do not know what are the reasons for this disparity but it is a fact, and a very serious one.

Check how this issue is rated in the WP7 suggestion forum:

http://windowsphone.uservoice..../101801-feature-suggestions

thenetavenger said,

....

Actually I'm waiting for a Nokia phone to try out WP7 again. Because everybody swears Mango and Nokia phones is the killer. Hopefully it comes out on AT&T first. I already signed up and cancelled with Sprint and T-Mobile this year. Verizon is my carrier of choice so I can't do that to them.

Zeet said,

If I recall correctly, the iPhone has never done all that stuff since launch, it took a few years to get those features added.

WP7 is not an iPhone. WP7 is 7th OS in the line. Microsoft have not started from zero - they have all source code and resources. They can always take old C++ code, apply new interface if required and recompile.

UndergroundWire said,

Actually I'm waiting for a Nokia phone to try out WP7 again. Because everybody swears Mango and Nokia phones is the killer. Hopefully it comes out on AT&T first. I already signed up and cancelled with Sprint and T-Mobile this year. Verizon is my carrier of choice so I can't do that to them.

What has leaked from Nokia so far does not seem to be impressive; right now I plan to buy a Samsung Focus S. Of course if Nokia will announce a very high end device I am more than willing to reconsider; Nokia has a long tradition of excellent hardware.

Fritzly said,

What has leaked from Nokia so far does not seem to be impressive; right now I plan to buy a Samsung Focus S. Of course if Nokia will announce a very high end device I am more than willing to reconsider; Nokia has a long tradition of excellent hardware.

Whatever the majority agree on then I will try it. I don't have time to research a product I don't plan on keeping. I just want to give it a fair shot.

UndergroundWire said,

Until last year, it lacked AutoCAD. It still lacks ArcGIS and it lacks a lot of industry standard financial software (I've been told by my brother). So yeah, I would say that. Thanks for clearing things up /s

I was talking more from a home consumer's point of view... not a business or anything... For home users, Macs are just as capable as Windows computers...

At least now you're willing to give Mango a shot...

JaykeBird said,

I was talking more from a home consumer's point of view... not a business or anything... For home users, Macs are just as capable as Windows computers...

At least now you're willing to give Mango a shot...

Yeah but don't get it all twisted now. I'm trying it for 15 days. It's hard to take fan boys seriously until you try it yourself. That goes for Google and Apple as well. I just want to backup my claims when I say Google Navigation is better than Bing Navigation. I can tell you already that the whole live tiles thing is a turn off from me ever keeping it. I'd rather have an iPhone over a WP7.5. Just my opinion.

UndergroundWire said,

Yeah but don't get it all twisted now. I'm trying it for 15 days. It's hard to take fan boys seriously until you try it yourself. That goes for Google and Apple as well. I just want to backup my claims when I say Google Navigation is better than Bing Navigation. I can tell you already that the whole live tiles thing is a turn off from me ever keeping it. I'd rather have an iPhone over a WP7.5. Just my opinion.

Okey-dokey. And I agree with what you said about fan boys. And I personally have never tried Google Navigation or Bing Navigation, so... Good luck with that. Lol. And yeah, the live tiles thing is very different, but I personally do like it, although there are a few slight adjustments I'd like to see made to it.

And I'm okay with your opinion. Everyone has an opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that. But what I don't like is someone making a comment that is either untrue, or without having tried out the product first. So... yeah... Lol.

JaykeBird said,
But what I don't like is someone making a comment that is either untrue, or without having tried out the product first. So... yeah... Lol.

Hence Why I want to try it. LOL

UndergroundWire said,

Hence Why I want to try it. LOL

Lol. Well, good luck with your trying-it-out, and may the best navigation service win!