From The Forums: Using Windows 8 as primary OS

When the Windows 8 Developer Preview was first launched in September 2011, many tech enthusiasts wanted to make that version their primary PC operating system. Even more people decided to take the plunge when the Consumer Preview of Windows 8 was launched in late February.

Microsoft has been clear that both of these Windows 8 builds still have a number of missing features as well as bugs. Having said that, a number of Neowin readers have already installed those builds of Windows 8 and made it their main PC OS. Those people have been relaying their experiences in a very popular post on our forums named, "Who uses Windows 8 as primary OS?".

The post was begun in January by Neowin forum member Simmo3D. He installed the Developer Preview of Windows 8 on his Samsung Series 7 slate PC and wrote at the time:

So far I am loving the experience. I have not really ran into any major issues but I have noticed a bug every now and again (not a big deal).

Another forum member, Possession, didn't have as good of an experience, saying:

As of now no, as the Developer Preview is too buggy and unstable, Obviously as it's a developer build.

When the Consumer Preview of Windows 8 was launched, more Neowin forum members tried it out. One very enthusiastic user is forum member AndreaBorman, who wrote a number of posts in this forum topic. Borman admitted to some issues with the Consumer Preview at first. Writing on March 18th, Borman says:

Well unfortunately Windows 8 CP is very bad. And it is exactly like that. You cannot use it because there are so many problems. So WINDOWS 8 NIGHTMARES PREVIEW is a good name for it.Why don't Microsoft just let up and make Windows 8 with a normal Windows 7 desktop and start menu? But I don't think they are going to do that.

However, Borman had a change of heart after installing Windows 8 a second time. In a detailed post on March 27th, Borman explains how she got Windows 8 running by doing some formatting on her notebook's hard drive along with some other changes. Borman wrote:

I now have Windows 8 CP running almost like Windows 7. And so that way you don't see much of the Metro theme,even though it's still there.And you cannot turn it off. And you don't have to deal with it very much either. And this time Windows 8 CP is working a lot better so they must haver fixed some problems already.

Borman just wrote a new post today with some more info, saying she has now installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview on two netbooks. She adds:

Also most of the Windows XP and Windows Vista software works on Windows 8 the same way it does on Windows 7. And also a lot of software has now been updated to work on Windows 8 CP.

Another Neowin member, PGHammer, wrote a few days ago:

I'll be shifting to the Release Preview when it comes out, for the simple reason that, unless they completely screw the pooch, it won't be any worse than the Consumer Preview, which has been, for me, flawless. (Surprisingly, that wasn't the case with Windows 7 + SP1 on the same hardware.) Odds of my going back to Windows 7 - none. No chance at all.

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Actually, I have mixed views. I have been using 8 since the dev preview as the only OS on my other work PC (side by side with my 7 PC and used as much for real work day to day) I live in the desktop most of the time, the charms are a mess, the hot corners on the left to change apps is tricky and the hotspot is so darn hard to get I always miss clicking on the first box.

Getting to settings is a chore, as half of them are in the old style half are in the new metro style (more PC settings). Wifi sies if the PC goes to sleep and, by force of habit, for a while I kept clicking on the IE logo on the taskbar trying to get the start menu!

I find that when I am taken to the start menu it becomes a mess of ugly icons and finding a programe means getting back to the start screen to type the name (or click on the all programmes icon on the lower right corner)

A good example of issues with metro is the PDF reader that comes with win8, a nice, simple product,. if I click on a PDF it opens up, problem is that I most likely clicked it from the desktop (where I can actually browse my documents) and to get back to what I was doing, i got to click on the windows key, then click on desktop, one extra click from clicking minimize or close on the current setup.

Another one is the snipping tool, I want to snip something on the desktop (it only works with the desktop (you cannot snip a metro screen) but as I had to get out to the start screen and click on it (assuming you pin it to the start screen) it starts the app but you get an empty background (it does not take you back to the desktop proper but to an empty desktop) you have to click it off and then click again to do what is right.

Sure, you could just pin it to the taskbar, but the fact that it works so horribly when called from the start screen makes me wonder...for such a simple tool (yet very useful)

I like many things about win8, but I feel the mixture of desktop and metro is badly done and makes me just stay away from metro.

I don't want to have to go to the start screen to see how many emails I have, I have apps that tell me from the notification area or its icon on the taskbar, so I can continue to work and still be informed.

I would have liked it more if the tile concept was brought in the same way OSx handles widgets, by bringing in a overlay screen with the gadgets, in this case, with the live tiles, and new versions of software would come with their tiles as part of the install and you can get info about them. You could also download new tiles, like for facebook, etc. The mail tile would allow you to choose your email provider, and pull from there (or have push talk to the tile) That would have been my fave option.

We'll see what the next release brings, but I have my doubts...after finally having a windows version that felt truly polished, we are back into the half baked, does not feel quite ready world...how Windows Me.

Technogeeks and power users will thrive on Windows-8. The rest of us will be very happy staying with Windows-7. The rest of us, especially casual users, prefer having the explicit cues of Windows-7 on the desktop and the Start Menu; rather than guessing where to find things.

I used win8 as primary for 2 months before in my Dell Latitude e6420.. but too many crash..freeze (screen just freeze but mouse still can move)... and Office crash in every minute..so I switch back to my Win7.
However.. my desktop don't have any problem running Win8 so far

I've installed it as a primary OS on my HP dv7, and it's very buggy. I'm definitely getting it after the release though, very nice os. Two things though; I hate what they did To msconfig and why does tts always open on startup in cp?

Question to everyone that complains about the new Windows 8 stuff... Why would you even install Windows 8 if you hate the changes that Windows 8 brings to the table? Makes no sense. Windows 8 without the Windows 8 changes is pretty much Windows 7. I don't get it.

FuzzyReets said,
...

There are many compelling feature within the x64 desktop. The metro part is hard for many to accept.
Maybe once the some decent apps become available, people will come around.

I've been running it as my main OS on my laptop since the day it was made available. I love it. Performance feels better than W7 if anything.

I dislike the Metro crap and have no use for it, but you can easily not use it anyway, it's not a big problem doing things without it.

Only just today have I come across my first problem. I can't get iRacing to install on it, as it claims my account doesn't have admin privileges to install it, even though I do.

I really liked the Win 8 CP (on my desktop with mouse/keyboard), I think the metro stuff and start screen are fresh, exciting and adventurous. It reminds me of why I got into computers back in the 90's, to explore something new. Unfortunately I have to stick with Win 7 for now because I experienced a number of bugs in the Win 8 CP, most of which I could ignore but the svchost.exe using 100% of a core was too much. Hopefullly most of the issues I ran into will be fixed in the RC.

Edited by J_R_G, May 13 2012, 12:04am :

Windows 8 CP is much better when using as a tablet OS then a desktop. And why are you guys using it as a primary OS when it's not complete yet?

Not every software that is designed for Windows 7 works on the Windows 8 CP.

Chica Ami said,
Windows 8 CP is much better when using as a tablet OS then a desktop. And why are you guys using it as a primary OS when it's not complete yet?

Not every software that is designed for Windows 7 works on the Windows 8 CP.

Tell me *exactly* what software that is designed for Windows 7 doesn't work with the Consumer Preview (or has not been replaced with a feature in the Consumer Preview).

I can tell you some things right off, though:

1. Microsoft Security Essentials - directly replaced by Windows Defender (which is, literally, the same program, and uses the same definitions - in short, it's now a feature of the OS).

2. Image mounting utilities (standard ISO image formats) - directly mooted by native ISO and VHD mounting in the operating system. Same applies to burning of standard ISO-format disk images. (However, other image burning programs still work.)

3. Disk-defragmentation utilities - Still usable; however, Disk Optimizer puts all the others (from free to commercial) to shame. Again, it's part of the operating system.

There are some software that simply will not install in Windows 8 (any version); however, that software plain and simply has OS-detection routines designed in that balk over the OS version query; however, in every case, I have found an alternative that does NOT have such quirks in it. (Could iRacing be one of those? Have you tried using the Compatibility Options on the installer?)

No issues with windows 8 CP, didnt like windows 8 dev., over all im fine with it and enjoy it. Im not moving back to windows 7 anytime so and looking forward to seeing what the final version of windows 8 will be like. I think they need to make another " Promotional Instructional Windows 8 video starring Matthew Perry and Jennifer Aniston from Friends", "Taskbars & emails & shortcuts oh my... taskbars & emails & shortcuts oh my... taskbars & emails & shortcuts oh my... taskbars & emails & shortcuts oh my... taskbars & emails & shortcuts oh my..."

No, you are quite correct. THAT is the sort of yardstick which should be used to judge Windows 8.

Projectors are not just an average display device. They are tricky, finicky, and are notoriusly fickle. It works on Windows 7 perfectly. More power to you. Using CP as a bellweather for it. Just be a little more... judicious, pls.

Anybody a history buff out there...? Any takers on the story of the USS Yorktown, early 1942...?
Get a heavily damaged carrier back out to sea in attack formation in 19 days, when everyone swore it would take 3 months at least...? The Japanese never expected her back in the game. They lost that bet hundreds of times over.

The moral of the story? Just because YOU cannot see the worth or ability of something that looks damaged, or incomplete or "not up to snuff", there's a lot more in the tank than what seems to be there. All this handwringing and sob story nonsense. "I can't play my games on it...", "I cannot use my HP 5L laserjet on it!" (199? year)...

"I wish all the Start tiles could be the same color."
"My VIA drivers aren't ready yet."

I was very doubtful about the learning curve for CP when I first saw it. Then I shook my head of couple of times and realized what a dolt I was being. The damn thing works. It works better than any Microsoft OS ever has (read about asynchrnous memory management and watch Task Manager closely... it will sink in) AND they're letting you use it for free for... months and months and months...

If results are the baseline, there is not much else to complain about. If aesthetics and personal preference win the day, then move on. Windows 8 will be there when you do figure things out.

One last thing. I was 110% a Mac OS X person until about 18 months ago. Windows 7 put a few chinks in that façade. The Windows DP was pretty much "ick". But CP is the golden gate.
All the talk about what is not missing, Steve Jobs made a lot of promises at MAcWord 2000 which did not see the light of day for several years. The big deal on the hardware front was a 333MHz iMac.... ooooh... How Much? $1600.. okay.. thanks. Wait! Then how about that stunning 700MHz eMac for... $2400... oooh... thanks... And now... there's that AWESOME 27" iMac for... wait... with just the starter frills? no software.. no office suite... $3400, give or take.... thanks...

Anthony Harmon said,

One last thing. I was 110% a Mac OS X person until about 18 months ago.

That explains it. You are the target market for Windows 8. It is also why you don't understand just how similar Windows 7 and Windows 8 are under the hood.

The other 95% of the desktop world, however, is not going to be happy with Windows 8 as it stands today (which is for all intents and purposes what MS will be shipping this summer).

One thing that boggles my mind is, like, why do some people always hyper inflate the prices of Apple hardware? If you have a point to prove, it's in your best interest to go a quick search, or head on over to Apple.com to quote the actual prices. When you start making stuff up, you start to lose credibility.

The big deal on the hardware front was a 333MHz iMac.... ooooh... How Much? $1600.. okay.. thanks

$1,199

Wait! Then how about that stunning 700MHz eMac for... $2400... oooh... thanks...

Also $1,199.

And now... there's that AWESOME 27" iMac for... wait... with just the starter frills? no software.. no office suite... $3400, give or take....

Yeah, give or take $1,701. A starter frills 27" iMac goes for $1,699. It does come with software, and it's an additional $60 for an office suite.

How long ago was it that you used OS X?

excalpius said,

That explains it. You are the target market for Windows 8. It is also why you don't understand just how similar Windows 7 and Windows 8 are under the hood.

The other 95% of the desktop world, however, is not going to be happy with Windows 8 as it stands today (which is for all intents and purposes what MS will be shipping this summer).

Once again with the sweeping generalisations and wild assumptions there excalpius.... bravo. Even if you take the Neowin poll they did just after CP came out, it was approximately a 40/60 for/against split, not 5/95 as you seem to claim. And that poll was of a group of IT enthusiasts (alot, if not most of whom will be desktop users). Regular "average" users are going to have much less of a problem with it than you seem to believe, making that split likely to be 50/50 at worst.

Don't forget that "alot" of users hated Windows XP when it came out for various reasons "fisher price windows" springs to mind. "Alot" of users hated Windows 95 with it's entirely new interface when it came out. Both of those platforms proceeded to become the norm and be widely accepted by both enthusiasts and your average home user alike. Windows 8 will take an equal amount of getting used to, but I don't see it being any different to 95/XP in 1-2 years time.

The Developer Preview for me was a nightmare, a lot of drivers didn't work propertly. The Consumer preview was a much better experience, no problems so far, a bug here and there with the Metro apps like Messages, People, etc but nothing really bad compared to the Developer Preview. I was expecting more changes to the UI on the desktop, I'm waiting for the next preview and see the new changes. Still, in some way I think these two worlds, Metro and Desktop, has not collided to become one, they still feel like one over the other in a harsh way.

For me Windows 8 doesn't worth the upgrade from Windows 7, at least on a desktop, but I would be more than happy to buy a new tablet or notebook with touch capabilities with W8 installed

Edited by daniel_rh, May 12 2012, 10:07pm :

I had it installed as my only OS for the past couple days, but I'm now back on my beloved Windows 7. I don't like Metro at all - it seems like another layer of crap getting in my way. Having Windows 7 "hidden" behind Metro (without a Start button to boot) seems like a bad theme pack installation.

I did, however, like the seemless mail, messaging, music and video integration with the desktop, as well as the slick lock screen notifications. Also, the social integration with Messenger is a nice touch, albeit unfinished and buggy.

Overall, I feel it will be a decent OS when it's done, but there's just no reason to upgrade to it. It can't do anything Windows 7 cannot.

bjoswald said,
I had it installed as my only OS for the past couple days, but I'm now back on my beloved Windows 7. I don't like Metro at all - it seems like another layer of crap getting in my way. Having Windows 7 "hidden" behind Metro (without a Start button to boot) seems like a bad theme pack installation.

I did, however, like the seemless mail, messaging, music and video integration with the desktop, as well as the slick lock screen notifications. Also, the social integration with Messenger is a nice touch, albeit unfinished and buggy.

Overall, I feel it will be a decent OS when it's done, but there's just no reason to upgrade to it. It can't do anything Windows 7 cannot.

Your reaction to metro is not surprising and entirely understandable. At the moment it is 100% useless, I do not dispute this, in fact I agree entirely. Of course it's going to seem like a layer of "crap" getting in the way, because it sits between you and the apps you currently use.

Don't forget though that Windows 8 is not an evolution of Windows 7, it's an entirely new app platform. The point of Windows 8 is to get new apps, and the desktop is there solely as a backwards compatibility environment. It's not just Windows 7 "hidden behind metro".

If you don't get that, then you don't get Windows 8 and maybe you shouldn't be buying a product you don't understand.

I'm honestly quite indifferent. I like Windows 7 quite a lot and I'm not sure on Metro yet - I need to be convinced.

I am a little worried about Windows 8 though. We had a consultant in from Microsoft a few weeks back and he quite proudly told us that he was running Windows 8 (not sure which build). I am not lying when I say he had to reboot his laptop TWICE during his presentation because of quirks with trying to get the projector to work (which I can hand on heart say has never given me problems) and even just multitasking between some utilities like PowerPoint.

It irks me a little that I feel like I have to qualify and "soften" my comments for fear of a roasting by the diehard Microsoft supporters but honestly this sort of experience doesn't fill me with confidence for the product.

Chicane-UK said,
I'm honestly quite indifferent. I like Windows 7 quite a lot and I'm not sure on Metro yet - I need to be convinced.

As do all of us. It's very hard to convince us of a platform for which there are no apps, no reason to stay in that platform for any length of time. It's like asking somebody to "get used to" an empty room... pretty wallpaper only goes so far before you get bored and walk out the door (to the desktop)... you need furniture and entertainment in that room to interact without before it feels like home.

And when everyone knows the platform is for all intents and purposes "finished". Minor cosmetics tweaks and bug fixes are NOT going to address the major problems in Windows 8 by RTM this summer. 8(

excalpius said,
And when everyone knows the platform is for all intents and purposes "finished". Minor cosmetics tweaks and bug fixes are NOT going to address the major problems in Windows 8 by RTM this summer. 8(

Who said anything about the platform not being finished?, I was talking about the lack of apps, but thanks for the topic hiijack there excalpius... that's so unlike you... well actually no, it's exactly like you ;-) The platform is fine, it's major problem right now is that it's just an empty shell giving nobody any reason to remain in metro to get used to it.

Daniel_Pooh said,
There are no problems its the fastest most stable most bug free OS in the world

wow I would like to have some of what you are smoking...

I wanted to like windows 8 but i found it very bipolar and unpolished. also i do some audio editing and some programs i needed crashed or didnt work so there was no way i was substituting my windows 7 for this. other than that i dont have any use for the metro ui or any of the apps from the marketplace, which by the way i didnt get to try all of them because they crashed when it showed the splash screen especially the games. with those things aside, i did love how well it performed, it boots very fast and its super smooth, also i noticed my hard drive wasnt grinding all the time.

While I have my reservations about Windows 8, they have said excalpius that there will be a tutorial provided to help with the new user. This isn't any different than Android. When I got my Android phone it had tutorial overlays on the screen to help figure out things. You think dragging down to see your notifications is intuitive? There is nothing to indicate that is how you do it. Or how about a long press on the home button to get currently running programs?
Any new OS needs tutorials or help to get the user used to the experience. Since WIndows 8 is only in a preview we do not have these tutorials yet.
Also since it is in preview we don't have full apps, etc. Only an idea of how things will be implemented. You think Microsoft wants to show everything up front and allow someone to copy it before they get to release it? (Of course the cynical ones will say, no one wants to copy it lol).
I agree there is room for improvement in how things are presented in Windows 8. I am unsure about upgrading fully to it when it is released, but I do use the CP quite regularly and eager to try the RP. The use of Metro seems forced on the desktop but would be quite at home on a tablet. I reserve final judgment on Windows 8 till I see what the final release provides.

The tutorial will help some people...once.

The VAST majority of users will NOT remember that and, of course, it won't help a new worker or home user when they sit down on someone else's computer.

Anyone who has worked in business IT, consumer Tech Support, or has even just set up a computer for their elderly parents knows what I'm talking about. 8)

Since the GUI is no longer the least bit intuitive in handling some of the really beginner's 101 operations established over the last 30 years of computing, these people WILL get frustrated and they will switch to the only other desktop OS that actually looks like what they think a computer should work like...Apple's OS X.

excalpius said,
The tutorial will help some people...once.

The VAST majority of users will NOT remember that and, of course, it won't help a new worker or home user when they sit down on someone else's computer.

Anyone who has worked in business IT, consumer Tech Support, or has even just set up a computer for their elderly parents knows what I'm talking about. 8)

Since the GUI is no longer the least bit intuitive in handling some of the really beginner's 101 operations established over the last 30 years of computing, these people WILL get frustrated and they will switch to the only other desktop OS that actually looks like what they think a computer should work like...Apple's OS X.

The only unintuitive element is the charms bar. The rest is actually MORE intuitive (Installing apps is just a click, instead of the old way).

Your average consumer will live in Metro, where everything (minus those charm bars) are much more intuitive and easier than Windows 7.

Before anyone say I haven't tried it. Yes, I have. I gave it a reasonable amount of time and I still do not like it. A little piece of advice to everyone. If you have to "give it some time" to like it then it isn't good. I'm just wondering what's going to happen if the mobile phones don't pick up some steam or if the tablets can't compete with Apple and android. Guaranteed this will be the first and last version of Metro made.

ahhell said,
"If you have to "give it some time" to like it then it isn't good."
Nice attitude you have there.

He's right, even Vista could've been good if you gave it time.

Windows 8 lovers keep missing the point.

No one doubts that technically literate people like those here on Neowin will be able to use and enjoy W8 on the desktop, etc.

The issue is going to be with the other 95% of Microsoft's worldwide market share. Namely the home users and the business users. Because of W8's invisible control points, missing gadgets (like close), and the lack of an obvious Start (button) place on the desktop (which they will be unable to avoid), W8 is going to cause a tremendous amount of confusion among the vast majority of the NOT technically literate computer user.

Normal people will boot up a W8 PC and not see any obvious VISUAL cues to motivate their traveling through the operating system with their trusty mouse. They don't even think in terms of "swiping" or "hidden corners" when it comes to interacting with their computer.

And why should they? Gestures are designed for touch devices (which no one uses at home or business because their monitors are too far away from them and positioned incorrectly for touch use) and the hidden corners are, well, INVISIBLE - so they are completely counter-intuitive in a human accessible GUI. In fact, the hidden corners are much more like the kind of secret shortcuts put in for Pro users to speed things up, etc..

So the reason many of us who are ****ed off about W8 is that it is a half-assed implementation being crammed down the throats of desktop users. And consumers have proven time and time again that this is NOT the way to their wallets.

As such, myself and many others who are in a position to advise and recommend hardware and software purchases for major corporations have already told our colleagues and clients to skip Windows 8 entirely.

My real worry is that Microsoft may not be able to fix these problems (which they have known about internally since last summer) in Windows 9. After all, it took them two operating system releases to put the UP button back in...ahem.

excalpius said,
Windows 8 lovers keep missing the point.

No one doubts that technically literate people like those here on Neowin will be able to use and enjoy W8 on the desktop, etc.

The issue is going to be with the other 95% of Microsoft's worldwide market share. Namely the home users and the business users. Because of W8's invisible control points, missing gadgets (like close), and the lack of an obvious Start (button) place on the desktop (which they will be unable to avoid), W8 is going to cause a tremendous amount of confusion among the vast majority of the NOT technically literate computer user.

Normal people will boot up a W8 PC and not see any obvious VISUAL cues to motivate their traveling through the operating system with their trusty mouse. They don't even think in terms of "swiping" or "hidden corners" when it comes to interacting with their computer.

And why should they? Gestures are designed for touch devices (which no one uses at home or business because their monitors are too far away from them and positioned incorrectly for touch use) and the hidden corners are, well, INVISIBLE - so they are completely counter-intuitive in a human accessible GUI. In fact, the hidden corners are much more like the kind of secret shortcuts put in for Pro users to speed things up, etc..

So the reason many of us who are ****ed off about W8 is that it is a half-assed implementation being crammed down the throats of desktop users. And consumers have proven time and time again that this is NOT the way to their wallets.

As such, myself and many others who are in a position to advise and recommend hardware and software purchases for major corporations have already told our colleagues and clients to skip Windows 8 entirely.

My real worry is that Microsoft may not be able to fix these problems (which they have known about internally since last summer) in Windows 9. After all, it took them two operating system releases to put the UP button back in...ahem.

That is why I'm NOT using the Consumer Preview on a touch device - I would, in fact, wager that most of us Neowinians that run it (either dual-boot, or as sole OS) aren't, either. I have stated, time and again, that I use a keyboard and mouse with the Consumer Preview. Most of the folks I support (other home users, teleworkers, students, etc.) use laptops and notebooks - not desktops. Even laptops and notebooks have better touch support than my desktop does. (My Mom's ancient Gateway Solo XP-driven laptop has a touchpad - which is standard fare for laptops of ITS day, let alone today.) Touch support since XP alone has been a kludge - it's often been some form of mouse emulation. We all know WHY that is - Windows has ZERO support for touch as a native instrument. It's something that laptop owners - never mind notebooks, netbooks, tablets, and slate owners! - have griped and whined about since Windows XP - and that's JUST here on Neowin. (Hie thyself to Hardware Hangout, Driver Support, and Windows Support for the data; take along a full bottle of TUMS, though.) In other words, the NATIVE support for touch in Windows (arriving with the Consumer Preview) isn't merely due, but OVER due. WAY overdue. Not just because of those NEW form-factors (such as tablets, slates, Ultrabooks) but the ones that haven't been supported properly (notebooks and laptops) for nearly a decade.

That's right - touch has been around for THAT long.

Touchpads are, in fact, standard on notebooks - it's mice that are the option.

You don't want to compromise - I get that much. However, you are perfectly willing to force others to compromise. Portable PC users have been forced to compromise for nearly a decade. However, while us *desktop* users have been in our comfort zone, as unwilling or unyielding as any right-wing neocon, there are more portable PC users out there (not merely in addition to desktops, but growingly *instead* of desktops). That was, in fact, what was at the heart of my own skepticism, and why I insisted on using the Developer Preview originally as a desktop user would - with a keyboard and a mouse. If you're running the CP on a portable PC that has both a mouse *and* a touchpad, detach the mouse and maneuver around using the touchpad *instead* of the mouse.

PGHammer said,
"Windows has ZERO support for touch as a native instrument. "

I am not sure if I am correct or not, but I bought a 23" touchscreen to try out this OS but when I got the monitor in the mail, I tried it on Windows 7. The monitor worked without having to load 3rd party drivers. From what I understand Windows 7 was the first Windows OS to offer touch or tablet support.

I think CP works well with a touchscreen monitor. I think the interface is very intuitive and easily navigated. I catch myself just using the touchscreen to scroll through web pages, click links, and using Microsoft paint is like being a kid again with finger paints. I would not run this on my main desktop without a touchscreen, I think the interface is too touchscreen oriented.

excalpius said,
...

Windows 8 haters keep missing the point.
The point is to extend the marketshare beyond the 93% captive audience.

Sure we'll lose 10-15% of the existing userbase, but if it brings computing to another billion, who cares.

PGHammer said,

In other words, the NATIVE support for touch in Windows (arriving with the Consumer Preview) isn't merely due, but OVER due.

You don't want to compromise - I get that much. However, you are perfectly willing to force others to compromise.

The first 1/2 of your post is debating something I wasn't even talking about. I have a laptop driving a Touch screen under Windows 7 and am well aware of its limitations. Regardless, the fact that touch is overdue for Windows has nothing to do whatsoever to my point. Windows 8 is fine for touch devices.

The second half of your post makes the assumption that I want to force something on other people, when in fact my argument is that I am arguing against MS doing just that. Again, not sure how you jumped to something so erroneous, so I will make it clear.

Desktop users should be given the CHOICE to enable Metro as Touch Only or Touch+ (in other words, desktop friendly additions such as close, navigation, and start widgets).

It's analogous to the Ease of Use/Accessibility settings in Windows today, though I would argue that non-Touch desktop OS installations should have the legacy assistance ON by default.

So, myself and others are arguing that MS is going to alienate a huge percentage of the customers who have guaranteed their desktop monopoly over the past 25+ years by NOT giving them a choice between Metro Touch and, say, Aero Metro.

deadonthefloor said,

Windows 8 haters keep missing the point.
The point is to extend the marketshare beyond the 93% captive audience.

Sure we'll lose 10-15% of the existing userbase, but if it brings computing to another billion, who cares.

No. The point is to extend Windows into the Touch/Phone gadgets marketshare that Apple and others currently dominate. This has nothing to do with the 93% desktop/PC marketshare, EXCEPT that MS is going to lose a helluva lot more than 10-15%.

The point is that MS did not have to trade one for the other. Metro is just fine for Touch/Phones/etc. All they needed to do was take into account how Metro needs to be usable to their NON-techno-literate NON-touch user base too.

So MS will be (hopefully) gaining consumer electronics market share at Apple's expense while (absolutely) losing market share with their core desktop, home, and business users.

Sadly, a few quite minor accommodations would have allowed MS to have their cake and eat it too.

PGHammer said,

That is why I'm NOT using the Consumer Preview on a touch device - I would, in fact, wager that most of us Neowinians that run it (either dual-boot, or as sole OS) aren't, either. I have stated, time and again, that I use a keyboard and mouse with the Consumer Preview. Most of the folks I support (other home users, teleworkers, students, etc.) use laptops and notebooks - not desktops. Even laptops and notebooks have better touch support than my desktop does. (My Mom's ancient Gateway Solo XP-driven laptop has a touchpad - which is standard fare for laptops of ITS day, let alone today.) Touch support since XP alone has been a kludge - it's often been some form of mouse emulation. We all know WHY that is - Windows has ZERO support for touch as a native instrument. It's something that laptop owners - never mind notebooks, netbooks, tablets, and slate owners! - have griped and whined about since Windows XP - and that's JUST here on Neowin. (Hie thyself to Hardware Hangout, Driver Support, and Windows Support for the data; take along a full bottle of TUMS, though.) In other words, the NATIVE support for touch in Windows (arriving with the Consumer Preview) isn't merely due, but OVER due. WAY overdue. Not just because of those NEW form-factors (such as tablets, slates, Ultrabooks) but the ones that haven't been supported properly (notebooks and laptops) for nearly a decade.

That's right - touch has been around for THAT long.

Touchpads are, in fact, standard on notebooks - it's mice that are the option.

You don't want to compromise - I get that much. However, you are perfectly willing to force others to compromise. Portable PC users have been forced to compromise for nearly a decade. However, while us *desktop* users have been in our comfort zone, as unwilling or unyielding as any right-wing neocon, there are more portable PC users out there (not merely in addition to desktops, but growingly *instead* of desktops). That was, in fact, what was at the heart of my own skepticism, and why I insisted on using the Developer Preview originally as a desktop user would - with a keyboard and a mouse. If you're running the CP on a portable PC that has both a mouse *and* a touchpad, detach the mouse and maneuver around using the touchpad *instead* of the mouse.

If one can get a touchpad to work on their laptop fine; otherwise, a mouse is needed. [No snide remarks, please; but there is something about my body's makeup that defies making a touchpad work.]

I've had lot's of problems using W8CP as a primary OS. NVidia drivers crash every so often (especially when using Metro apps, which I hardly do). My wireless card stops working after resuming from sleep. Certain programs don't work and will just crash if you try to run them. I'm willing to overlook these problems since it is a beta after all.

There's the matter of the god-awful pack-in apps. I know they are "preview" apps but I don't know how MS plans to fix this by release, because what they have now are just plain unusable.

Another annoyance is the Start Screen. Now I like the Start Screen concept overall, much better app launcher than the old Start Menu in my opinion. However, when you install certain programs (MS Office comes to mind), you end up with 30 new icons tacked on to the end of your Start Screen, and you will have to spend a couple minutes cleaning things up. This is a legacy Windows issue and definitely needs to be addressed.

Plus like TheDisneyMagic mentioned there are all sorts of inconsistencies. Aero and Metro don't mesh well. Overall the whole thing feels half-baked. Still, other than those enormous problems I mentioned I definitely prefer W8.

Been running the Consumer Preview since it launched, been smooth sailing. I love it. Will be trying to upgrade to Release Preview when it launches too.

I've been running it in dual boot with Windows 7 since the Developer Preview. I have used the DP in CP on and off, but it's been 2 weeks since I've been using the Consumer Preview as my main OS. Going back to Windows 7 is kind of hard because I do miss some of the features in 8 (the native ISO mounting, the new task manager, etc). While I like the Start Screen, I do think it needs a couple more improvements. (such as the option to have all the tiles be the same color.) Other than that it has been a positive experience.

I would if VIA would release a working HD Audio driver for goodness sake! Realtek and IDT work flawless but VIA is dragging along. Arg. For the systems I do have it on I love it. If the VIA issue is resolved in the Release Preview then I'll definitely have it as my main os on my main pc. My Origin/Steam Games work, Browsers work, Encoders work, Skype works so I'm ready to go.

Sadelwo said,
I would if VIA would release a working HD Audio driver for goodness sake! Realtek and IDT work flawless but VIA is dragging along. Arg. For the systems I do have it on I love it. If the VIA issue is resolved in the Release Preview then I'll definitely have it as my main os on my main pc. My Origin/Steam Games work, Browsers work, Encoders work, Skype works so I'm ready to go.

i got my via hd drivers installed fine in windows 8 and they work well also, i just used the windows 7 ones

They forgot to place Andrea Borman's name and the end of each of her quotes. You know, like she does. Anyway, I ran the CP for a couple of weeks, albeit dual-booting between it and Windows 7. I did get used to the start screen, but I still can't say I liked it better than Start menu in Windows 7. Plus, not being able to change the fonts for icons and titlebars and the like? Why was that functionality removed exactly? Hopefully it will be brought back for the Release Preview.

I will most likely run the RP, and I think now I'll probably run it alone rather than dual-booting. I'm not a huge fan of having a tablet PC interface as the Start menu, but I can get used to it.

I love how people act all high and mighty when we don't like their favorite OS. Get over it. Windows and the rest of Microsoft's products are not of religious nature. So, it's ok if someone doesn't like what they're doing. It's also ok to admit you do like what they're doing. There's no shame at all. We don't have to blindly accept every product from Microsoft as if it's a gift from God.

xiphi said,
I love how people act all high and mighty when we don't like their favorite OS. Get over it. Windows and the rest of Microsoft's products are not of religious nature. So, it's ok if someone doesn't like what they're doing. It's also ok to admit you do like what they're doing. There's no shame at all. We don't have to blindly accept every product from Microsoft as if it's a gift from God.

Nobody's asking you to blindly accept or to like anything. You are after all free to not buy it. We just wish you wouldn't throw faeces all over the product and those of us who DO like it, and attempt to influence the thinking of others instead of letting them make their own mind up.

Don't forget that a lot of the damage to Vistas reputation was done by word of mouth, most of whom had never actually tried it themselves, but were just repeating what their "techie friend" told them.

TCLN Ryster said,

Nobody's asking you to blindly accept or to like anything. You are after all free to not buy it. We just wish you wouldn't throw faeces all over the product and those of us who DO like it, and attempt to influence the thinking of others instead of letting them make their own mind up.

Don't forget that a lot of the damage to Vistas reputation was done by word of mouth, most of whom had never actually tried it themselves, but were just repeating what their "techie friend" told them.

I like how you were quick to assume things and try to put words into my mouth, so to speak, and regarding Vista you're also preaching to the choir. I know all to well how it was perceived. No need to tell me about it considering I glady ran Vista from the day it launched to the day 7 came out in Beta.

I have found it an all round good experience, there are only a handful of use full apps on the market place and I am still a little but frustrated that many things such as xbox cannot be signed in to here in the UK yet.

Day to day use though, I find the platform rock solid. My XPS L702x boots in about 7 seconds from a cold boot through to start screen. I haven't had a single crash apart from a few driver niggles to begin, those issues were solved by installing them in compatibility mode.

A few websites act up when using IE10 I am guessing they don't realise IE10 is a valid browser so don't load CSS or certain features don't work. As soon as you hit F12 and switch the IE9 mode they work flawlessly again.

Pretty much every program loads faster using Windows 8 compared to the same computer prior running a fresh copy of Windows 7 and I love some of the smaller additions such as having multiple file transfers as one windows and the ability to pause transfers. (Comes in useful when starting to copy a large file over the network, realise I am on wireless so pause the transfer, plug in the cat 5 and resume).

I am not overly keen on the inconsistency with the taskbar in desktop mode, click the network icon and you get a full side bar, click the volume bar and you get the classical pop up in the corner. I hope inconsistencies like that will be ironed out by release.

Microsoft will probably open up the Windows store after the release of RC since it's pretty much feature complete and it's just bug fixing. Not to mention that releasing the store now would mean that by the time it's gets to the public general availability, there will be a ton of apps.

I sense a lot of insecurity when I hear people talk negatively about others who don't share the same opinion of anything (music, movies, gaming, software, etc). I'm reminded of the old saying "live and let live".

I totally agree with you. After finding the Start-menu it was nothing but pure awesomeness!

Unfortunately I haven't had time to test it a lot though.

ozzy76 said,
I sense a lot of insecurity when I hear people talk negatively about others who don't share the same opinion of anything (music, movies, gaming, software, etc). I'm reminded of the old saying "live and let live".

Maturity in this world is lacking.