Google and RIM fire back; tell Apple where to shove it

It's been two years since Steve Jobs joined in on an Apple earning conference call. Perhaps he should have waited a bit longer...

After news of Steve Jobs' Android and RIM bashing hit the Internet, the tech world became enraged at the arrogance and inaccuracies portrayed by the charismatic CEO. In the conference call, Jobs focused on Android fragmentation, and used TweetDeck (a popular Twitter client) as an example of development struggles. He stated that developers had to work with more than a 100 different versions of Android to get it right. He also said that open is not necessarily better, and that calling iOS closed is "disingenuous." However, Jobs failed to realize that Android doesn't have over 100 different versions. It has over 100 different ROMs (based on one or two versions of the OS), which isn't even close to the same thing. Most developers will never have to deal with more than two versions of the Android OS at a given time.

TweetDeck's response (tweet 1, tweet 2):

"Did we at any point say it was a nightmare developing on Android? Errr nope, no we didn't. It wasn't."

"@dannysullivan yes exactly! We only have 2 guys developing on Android TweetDeck so that shows how small an issue fragmentation is"

Jobs also voiced his disapproval of seven-inch tablet devices, which both Google and RIM are releasing.

"This size isn't sufficient to create great tablet apps, in our opinion. While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size."

In retaliation, both Google and RIM decided to voice their opinions. Google's Andy Rubin (aka the "father of Android"), decided to bring his A-game to Twitter this morning where he left the following message, showing just how "open" Android really is.

"the definition of open: “mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"

Android is so open, that with a single string of commands, you can download and compile the latest version of Android to do with as you please.

RIM's Co-CEO, Jim Balsillie, also had some carefully chosen words to share with Steve Jobs. Not only did he want to set the record straight regarding RIM's sales figures, he also expressed his belief that customers want a "real web experience" and are "getting tired of being told what to think by Apple."

"For those of us who live outside of Apple's distortion field, we know that 7" tablets will actually be a big portion of the market and we know that Adobe Flash support actually matters to customers who want a real web experience. We also know that while Apple's attempt to control the ecosystem and maintain a closed platform may be good for Apple, developers want more options and customers want to fully access the overwhelming majority of web sites that use Flash. We think many customers are getting tired of being told what to think by Apple. And by the way, RIM has achieved record shipments for five consecutive quarters and recently shared guidance of 13.8 - 14.4 million BlackBerry smartphones for the current quarter. Apple's preference to compare its September-ending quarter with RIM's August-ending quarter doesn't tell the whole story because it doesn't take into account that industry demand in September is typically stronger than summer months, nor does it explain why Apple only shipped 8.4 million devices in its prior quarter and whether Apple's Q4 results were padded by unfulfilled Q3 customer demand and channel orders. As usual, whether the subject is antennas, Flash or shipments, there is more to the story and sooner or later, even people inside the distortion field will begin to resent being told half a story."

Jobs fired across many corporate heads with his comments and really stirred the pot.  While Apple has been on a hot streak, everything will come to an end, eventually.

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Good, glad to see more companies not taking Apples bull **** and lashing back. Jobs is threatened and instead of relying on his products and trusting his loyal customers. Its companies like Apple that make me glad there are many other choices to choose from.

Mike Chipshop said,
Good to see open, honest arguments backed up with evidence.

What like comments how 7" is a good size from a company thats yet to release one? Yeah real good

That guy is a moron for posting that tweet about being able to download and compile the latest version.
Open source DOES NOT mean the platform is open.

WelshBluebird said,
That guy is a moron for posting that tweet about being able to download and compile the latest version.
Open source DOES NOT mean the platform is open.
So are you saying Android isn't open?

Kirkburn said,
So are you saying Android isn't open?

I'd say that its not open. There are licensing fees for OEM's. But the source is open. So depending on how the coin lands, it is or it isn't. But I say that it isn't.

asdavis10 said,

I'd say that its not open. There are licensing fees for OEM's. But the source is open. So depending on how the coin lands, it is or it isn't. But I say that it isn't.

I don't know where you're getting your information. Google doesn't charge a licensing fee for the use of Android. The only fees come about because of patent issues. I believe companies that use Android have to pay Microsoft (surprisingly) a small fee per phone that it's installed on because of this. However, Google DOES provide Android to them for FREE.

Kirkburn said,
So are you saying Android isn't open?

Not fully.
Some manufacturers lock you to their crappy skins.
Some brand new phones are still being made with 1.6.
Some phones even will reflash the orignal firmware, locking you from installing a different ROM.
Some networks lock you into using a certain search engine.
Some networks force crapware onto your phone that you cannot uninstall.
etc etc.

WelshBluebird said,

Not fully.
Some manufacturers lock you to their crappy skins.
Some brand new phones are still being made with 1.6.
Some phones even will reflash the orignal firmware, locking you from installing a different ROM.
Some networks lock you into using a certain search engine.
Some networks force crapware onto your phone that you cannot uninstall.
etc etc.

Crappy skins...people who care will root.
Phones made with 1.6. Not to many anymore. Most are coming out with 2.1
Reflash original firmware only on the G2...which I am sure will be hacked soon.
Diff search engine...again, those who care or know diff will root.
Crapware....those who care or know diff will root.

Next?

Most people are happy with how their phone looks and operates. They dont care about changing the skin, applying diff roms...just as long as the phone works as advertised.

techbeck said,

Crappy skins...people who care will root.
Phones made with 1.6. Not to many anymore. Most are coming out with 2.1
Reflash original firmware only on the G2...which I am sure will be hacked soon.
Diff search engine...again, those who care or know diff will root.
Crapware....those who care or know diff will root.

Next?

Most people are happy with how their phone looks and operates. They dont care about changing the skin, applying diff roms...just as long as the phone works as advertised.

I realise you can do all that.
But I am arguing against android being as open as people think.
The fact that manufacters / networks lock it down in the above ways shows that the platform isnt that open in reality.

Also, I think you are over estimating the number of people who would root their device. My friend had a Vodafone Desire which got pushed crapware to it as an update. He didn't know how to get rid of it, or how to root his phone. All he knew that it annoyed him.

LOL, oh well. Steve has been playing this game since 1999. It's his way of giving confidence to his users. It's working fairly well, in hindsight.

Northgrove said,
LOL, oh well. Steve has been playing this game since 1999. It's his way of giving confidence to his users. It's working fairly well, in hindsight.

But surely Apple users can distinguish fact from fiction. Right...?

I don't like the "definition" of open implied by that one quote. Open shouldn't (and I'm pretty sure doesn't) mean anyone can download and compile it. It leaves out a much more broad set of interpretations.

Even Jobs categorized Windows--the desktop OS--as 'open' in the sense that it made its mark by running on aaaanything. It didn't exist within a closed system of hardware. This should remind us that there is more to technology than software (and hardware) alone. There are tiers and many different angles to approach things from, and openness means different things in different places.

As far as I'm concerned, Android, iOS, and Windows Phone alike are all open in their own ways. But one thing stands true above all others: they all might as well be closed as long as they exist within the ecosystem that is America's cell phone industry.

In comparison to how Jobs defines Windows as being open, no smartphone OS is. All hardware is paired with a specific OS, and to put something else on instead requires an enormous amount of effort, and has yet to be successfully achieved by anyone. I'm paying extremely close attention to projects related to making older HTC WinMo phones (Rhodium, specifically) boot to Android. They've made great strides, but are still largely broken. Even if everything ends up running, the effort necessary for this goes above and beyond (on a massive scale) anything that has ever historically been required to install a desktop OS.

Joshie said,
I don't like the "definition" of open implied by that one quote. Open shouldn't (and I'm pretty sure doesn't) mean anyone can download and compile it. It leaves out a much more broad set of interpretations.

Even Jobs categorized Windows--the desktop OS--as 'open' in the sense that it made its mark by running on aaaanything. It didn't exist within a closed system of hardware. This should remind us that there is more to technology than software (and hardware) alone. There are tiers and many different angles to approach things from, and openness means different things in different places.

As far as I'm concerned, Android, iOS, and Windows Phone alike are all open in their own ways. But one thing stands true above all others: they all might as well be closed as long as they exist within the ecosystem that is America's cell phone industry.

In comparison to how Jobs defines Windows as being open, no smartphone OS is. All hardware is paired with a specific OS, and to put something else on instead requires an enormous amount of effort, and has yet to be successfully achieved by anyone. I'm paying extremely close attention to projects related to making older HTC WinMo phones (Rhodium, specifically) boot to Android. They've made great strides, but are still largely broken. Even if everything ends up running, the effort necessary for this goes above and beyond (on a massive scale) anything that has ever historically been required to install a desktop OS.

There's a chance this might be a shock to you - are you sitting down? OK - the world goes on outside America and its cell-phone industry.

If you try and install Windows on a machine for which you (and Microsoft) have no drivers, you'll have bigger problems than people have had running Android on older WinMo phones. If you have no support from the hardware manufacturer, you're ****ed regardless of whether you're dealing with a phone or a PC.

Joshie said,
I don't like the "definition" of open implied by that one quote. Open shouldn't (and I'm pretty sure doesn't) mean anyone can download and compile it. It leaves out a much more broad set of interpretations.

Even Jobs categorized Windows--the desktop OS--as 'open' in the sense that it made its mark by running on aaaanything. It didn't exist within a closed system of hardware. This should remind us that there is more to technology than software (and hardware) alone. There are tiers and many different angles to approach things from, and openness means different things in different places.

As far as I'm concerned, Android, iOS, and Windows Phone alike are all open in their own ways. But one thing stands true above all others: they all might as well be closed as long as they exist within the ecosystem that is America's cell phone industry.

In comparison to how Jobs defines Windows as being open, no smartphone OS is. All hardware is paired with a specific OS, and to put something else on instead requires an enormous amount of effort, and has yet to be successfully achieved by anyone. I'm paying extremely close attention to projects related to making older HTC WinMo phones (Rhodium, specifically) boot to Android. They've made great strides, but are still largely broken. Even if everything ends up running, the effort necessary for this goes above and beyond (on a massive scale) anything that has ever historically been required to install a desktop OS.

The same would apply to getting the source code and trying to build a new 'nix distribution from scratch. It isn't the job of hardware vendors to help you build Android to run on their devices if they where not designed for it, if you want to do it the onus is on you.

The point is that Android is truly free in the sense that it can be freely compiled to run on any device with a CPU and screen , and altered in any way the user wishes, it is free in terms of being Libre. Being able to compile the code and have it instantly work on any device is simply not within Google's remit, they provide the OS and the people that want to put it on their devices provide the customisations and drivers.

tomjol said,

There's a chance this might be a shock to you - are you sitting down? OK - the world goes on outside America and its cell-phone industry.


These were comments made by an American CEO to American share-holders in a market shared with two other American corporations that compete first and foremost in America. This might come as a shock to you--are you sitting down?--but the most successful software platforms in the world come from the US.

Was I somehow ignoring the rest of the world? No, I know you exist, and I realize that you whimper like hungry puppies whenever an American talks about America on the internet just because an article happens to be about something that happened in America. The success of these companies depend on their performance in the US because they're US companies, so how their business model runs, in the US, is--and I know this hurts--relevant. And in the US, handhelds hardware is tied to software, in a closed set-up, and no matter how easy it may be to download and compile code, getting it to run on hardware depends entirely on the vendors, so the current state of Android, Windows Phone, and iOS are all equally closed IN THE HANDHELD MARKET.

I mean, for chrissake, the amount of hacking to get Android to run on a Rhodium is on par with the amount of hacking it takes to install OS X on a PC. Does that make Mac OS open? The fundamental principles behind the different software might be easy to categorize as open or not, but principles don't matter half as much as PRACTICE.

Principles and white papers are great for idealistic 19 year olds who think one semester of International Relations has given them insight into what's best for the world and its economy, but eventually they have to figure out that the market is a two-sided system where the consumer has to be catered to, either by spoiling or tricking, and if there's one thing we can be sure of about software that runs around calling itself 'open', it sucks HORRIBLY at spoiling or tricking anyone, and the only reason Google's Android has been a success is brand recognition, flooding the market, and a small dose of CLOSED (see: ANY Android device that does NOT have Google Apps has been a complete and utter failure).

Shiranui said,
They shouldn't have bothered dignifying Jobs' rant with a response.

It is there job to respond. They have to do whatever makes the share holders happy. If you company gets bashed, you have to respond in some way as CEO or it makes you look weak.

Never owned any Apple computers so I don't really care for them one way or another but this line: "While Apple has been on a hot streak, everything will come to an end, eventually," really isn't necessary. Just seems like an unprofessional jab. No facts, no proof, it's just like saying "RIM will rise again, eventually." What happened to writers being unbiased?

Surrieall said,
Never owned any Apple computers so I don't really care for them one way or another but this line: "While Apple has been on a hot streak, everything will come to an end, eventually," really isn't necessary. Just seems like an unprofessional jab. No facts, no proof, it's just like saying "RIM will rise again, eventually." What happened to writers being unbiased?
This is a blog not a news site."Neowin.net-Where unprofessional journalism looks better!"

Surrieall said,
Never owned any Apple computers so I don't really care for them one way or another but this line: "While Apple has been on a hot streak, everything will come to an end, eventually," really isn't necessary. Just seems like an unprofessional jab. No facts, no proof, it's just like saying "RIM will rise again, eventually." What happened to writers being unbiased?

It's called an opinion and even writers have them. In reallity it will have to come to an end, why does it sound so ilogic to you?

FHM said,

This is a blog not a news site.

Visit the Neowin About Us page and read the first line. In case you're unable to do that: "Neowin.net... is a technology news website".

Rodrigo said,

It's called an opinion and even writers have them.

Duh. And in Surrieall's opinion, and mine too, it sounds unprofessional. A professional news article should try to have as little bias as possible. (Don't bother quoting "where unprofessional journalism looks better". It's silly if any writer has to hide under this slogan.) I'm not saying there shouldn't be any opinion from the writer, but not where it looks unprofessional like this. Would you have said the same thing if the article said "Apple sucks"?

I didn't bother directly responding to your last sentence because, frankly, it was absurd. No-one said it was "ilogic" (and no-one said "illogical" either). You deserve a too.

Surrieall said,
it's just like saying "RIM will rise again, eventually." What happened to writers being unbiased?
Not at all. Everything does always come to an end, but you can't predict the rise of something.

Manish said,

Would you have said the same thing if the article said "Apple sucks"?

Yes, I would because you'd probably have used the same flawed logic.
Manish said,

I didn't bother directly responding to your last sentence because, frankly, it was absurd. No-one said it was "ilogic" (and no-one said "illogical" either). You deserve a too.

Take it as you wish, evading what you tried to say doesn't change the fact that you are in denial.

Rodrigo said,

Yes, I would because you'd probably have used the same flawed logic.
Take it as you wish, evading what you tried to say doesn't change the fact that you are in denial.

What flawed logic? In denial about what? What exactly are you talking about?

Clearly you're just another troll with anti-Apple sentiments if you're telling me that in the hypothetical situation in which the writer had ended with "Apple Sucks", you would've responded with the same garbage, i.e. "In reallity it will have to suck, why does it sound so ilogic to you?".

You definitely deserve a .

Rodrigo said,

It's called an opinion and even writers have them. In reallity it will have to come to an end, why does it sound so ilogic to you?

I remember the opinion about Android a few weeks back, for some reason, an opinion wasn't favoroured at that point.

"the definition of open: “mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"

Oh wow, how incredibly simple. Much more simple than pressing an upgrade button. I doubt the average consumer would know how to do this.. This is where Windows Phone and iPhones win, the simplicity to the general public.

Flash kills battery life, and in all honesty I've used a 7 inch tablet. It's a truly awful experience.
I hate to say it, but underneath all of the surface crap, Steve Jobs is usually right about these things. .. I'm very aware I'm posting this to an anarchical site of fanboys.

dagrimdialer619 said,
Flash kills battery life, and in all honesty I've used a 7 inch tablet. It's a truly awful experience.
I hate to say it, but underneath all of the surface crap, Steve Jobs is usually right about these things. .. I'm very aware I'm posting this to an anarchical site of fanboys.

And HTML 5 video DOESN'T kill battery?

Others disagree with you about screen size, they think 7" is perfect. That's a matter of opinion, so your "honesty" doesn't matter in that case. I can hate 10" tablets, but just because I do, doesn't mean everyone does. Open your mind a bit.

dagrimdialer619 said,

Oh wow, how incredibly simple. Much more simple than pressing an upgrade button. I doubt the average consumer would know how to do this.. This is where Windows Phone and iPhones win, the simplicity to the general public.

Flash kills battery life, and in all honesty I've used a 7 inch tablet. It's a truly awful experience.
I hate to say it, but underneath all of the surface crap, Steve Jobs is usually right about these things. .. I'm very aware I'm posting this to an anarchical site of fanboys.


Agreed. But what people doesn't tolerate about Steve, this includes me, is how his arrogance is bigger than the others'.

dagrimdialer619 said,

Oh wow, how incredibly simple. Much more simple than pressing an upgrade button. I doubt the average consumer would know how to do this.. This is where Windows Phone and iPhones win, the simplicity to the general public.

Flash kills battery life, and in all honesty I've used a 7 inch tablet. It's a truly awful experience.
I hate to say it, but underneath all of the surface crap, Steve Jobs is usually right about these things. .. I'm very aware I'm posting this to an anarchical site of fanboys.

Andy Rubin was talking about how open Android is. Obviously the commands quoted are not for the every day user.

dagrimdialer619 said,

Oh wow, how incredibly simple. Much more simple than pressing an upgrade button. I doubt the average consumer would know how to do this.. This is where Windows Phone and iPhones win, the simplicity to the general public.

Flash kills battery life, and in all honesty I've used a 7 inch tablet. It's a truly awful experience.
I hate to say it, but underneath all of the surface crap, Steve Jobs is usually right about these things. .. I'm very aware I'm posting this to an anarchical site of fanboys.

Lol.

dagrimdialer619 said,

Oh wow, how incredibly simple. Much more simple than pressing an upgrade button. I doubt the average consumer would know how to do this.. This is where Windows Phone and iPhones win, the simplicity to the general public.

Flash kills battery life, and in all honesty I've used a 7 inch tablet. It's a truly awful experience.
I hate to say it, but underneath all of the surface crap, Steve Jobs is usually right about these things. .. I'm very aware I'm posting this to an anarchical site of fanboys.

You do realise how stupid your post is? That was for building AOSP and not for phones. Most Android phones update themselves over the air unlike iphone/WinPhone 7 where you have to tether them to the PC.

[quote=dagrimdialer619 said,]

Oh wow, how incredibly simple. Much more simple than pressing an upgrade button. I doubt the average consumer would know how to do this.. This is where Windows Phone and iPhones win, the simplicity to the general public.

Flash kills battery life,

You're missing the point with the command. Developers vs end users. Open accelerates development.

Google does provide OTA updates to end users. So it's pretty damn easy to upgrade your Android phone--as easy as clicking a button.

Also, Google averages 2 updates a year to Apple's one.

And as for Flash... yes it USES battery life. It's also fully functional, beneficial, and available at MY DEMAND. But hell my display kills battery life. Sixty percent as a matter fact. I guess I should just scrap it and use morse code as an input method.

But then it's down the phone manufactures to release a new version of the firmware which can also be months if at all.

So far I prefer the iPhone for updates. Android phones shouldn't have to be rooted to install custom builds of Android either.

dagrimdialer619 said,

Oh wow, how incredibly simple. Much more simple than pressing an upgrade button. I doubt the average consumer would know how to do this.. This is where Windows Phone and iPhones win, the simplicity to the general public.

Flash kills battery life, and in all honesty I've used a 7 inch tablet. It's a truly awful experience.
I hate to say it, but underneath all of the surface crap, Steve Jobs is usually right about these things. .. I'm very aware I'm posting this to an anarchical site of fanboys.

What you should really be aware of is the fact that you are horribly wrong

The command Google gave just builds Android from the source, not install a manufacturer provided update. Upgrades are actually very simple to install on Android, the updates are about half the size of those delivered for the iPhone and you don't need crapware like iTunes to install it, you just get a prompt and press OK (or if you fancy, for HTC phones you just download the update and run the EXE). How much more simple could you want it?

Oh and FYI, Several tests indicated that actually Flash is no worse for battery life than HTML 5 is, that's just smoke and mirrors from Apple.

What you should worry about is not Android fanboys, but having your own ignorance exposed.

I'm disappointed that RIM and Google weren't harsh enough. They could have been more stern and nasty like Jobs.

I like Andy Rubin's response, So Google, just how many of your phones can the end user really do that ? Aside from your own, which are nice and open, everyone else seems to like to lock it down and force apps and such on people in a way that would make even Apple blush...

And I agree with Jobs on 7", They are just too small, I can live with a small screen on a phone, after all, it's a Phone first and everything else second ( Or in Apple's case, Phone and iPod first everything else second.. ).. Even the iPad is a little small for me, as I'd like 16:9 screen..

Ryoken said,
I like Andy Rubin's response, So Google, just how many of your phones can the end user really do that ? Aside from your own, which are nice and open, everyone else seems to like to lock it down and force apps and such on people in a way that would make even Apple blush...

And I agree with Jobs on 7", They are just too small, I can live with a small screen on a phone, after all, it's a Phone first and everything else second ( Or in Apple's case, Phone and iPod first everything else second.. ).. Even the iPad is a little small for me, as I'd like 16:9 screen..

Because we didn't live with small screens for years. It's called a choice.

Rodrigo said,

Because we didn't live with small screens for years. It's called a choice.

What? Another nonsensical post.

Simply put, no one enjoys being told what to like, and making comments similar to this "our products are selling well, so everyone MUST love them and those who don't are dumb" is what gets companies into trouble in the long run.

No matter how great your product is, no one likes an arrogant a$*(@le.

dagamer34 said,
Simply put, no one enjoys being told what to like, and making comments similar to this "our products are selling well, so everyone MUST love them and those who don't are dumb" is what gets companies into trouble in the long run.

No matter how great your product is, no one likes an arrogant a$*(@le.

If a company had many product lines tailored to every individual whim they would go out of business.

If Android is open, why do we have newsposts for leaked Gingerbread builds? Or is it not accessible to public till Google releases it?

dhan said,
If Android is open, why do we have newsposts for leaked Gingerbread builds? Or is it not accessible to public till Google releases it?

...Ubuntu is open source, we do not have 12.04 already? Like omg.

dhan said,
If Android is open, why do we have newsposts for leaked Gingerbread builds? Or is it not accessible to public till Google releases it?

Most stupid logic on this post yet. Do you even understand what open is?

Rodrigo said,

Most stupid logic on this post yet. Do you even understand what open is?


that was a genuine question. I asked if Android was open development as well not just open source.

I think Jobs is a dick, but I'm sure he knows that the bubble will burst soon enough. So why not make a big fuss in the media. Any advertising is good advertising. And outside the tech community, who is going to bother reading this sort of stuff?

Not most of his users, that's for sure.

I don't know. The iSheeple tend to hang on Lord Job's every word. Not that it would change anything for them. If Lord Job's says its true then it must be true.

Nashy said,
Any advertising is good advertising.

Honestly, who still believes this ****? Companies have gone to hell for doing stupid **** before.

And because of Steve is the reason I switched to android, thanks Steve for opening my eyes. I hate arrogant CEOs, that's why I also left at&t, now am on Verizon the crap of communication

zerokool316 said,
And because of Steve is the reason I switched to android, thanks Steve for opening my eyes. I hate arrogant CEOs, that's why I also left at&t, now am on Verizon the crap of communication

If you choose what you buy based on some dude, heck even the top dude in the company that's said as well as stupid.

Leroy Jethro Gibbs said,

If you choose what you buy based on some dude, heck even the top dude in the company that's said as well as stupid.

What Leroy said. If you base your purchases on who runs the company, rather than the product itself, then you are an idiot. I now personally wish I'd bought an iPhone 4 instead of my nexus one, since it's been in repair since last Friday (8th), and there's no word on when it will be returned to me. That and there just isn't enough content on the market to make it worthwhile (with the exception of Angry Birds of course)

d4v1d05 said,

What Leroy said. If you base your purchases on who runs the company, rather than the product itself, then you are an idiot. I now personally wish I'd bought an iPhone 4 instead of my nexus one, since it's been in repair since last Friday (8th), and there's no word on when it will be returned to me. That and there just isn't enough content on the market to make it worthwhile (with the exception of Angry Birds of course)

I disagree, the only voice you have as a non shareholder is to either purchase or not to purchase a product.

d4v1d05 said,

What Leroy said. If you base your purchases on who runs the company, rather than the product itself, then you are an idiot. I now personally wish I'd bought an iPhone 4 instead of my nexus one, since it's been in repair since last Friday (8th), and there's no word on when it will be returned to me. That and there just isn't enough content on the market to make it worthwhile (with the exception of Angry Birds of course)

And you don't think an iPhone could break too????

Seriously, be slightly logical.

@+d4v1d05, u want iPhone 4 because you're an idiot. A man can chose to bye or not bye a certain phone brand for whatever reason they want. For example: I will never buy iPhone 4 because my dog **** on article for iPhone 4(Good dog).

d4v1d05 said,

What Leroy said. If you base your purchases on who runs the company, rather than the product itself, then you are an idiot. I now personally wish I'd bought an iPhone 4 instead of my nexus one, since it's been in repair since last Friday (8th), and there's no word on when it will be returned to me. That and there just isn't enough content on the market to make it worthwhile (with the exception of Angry Birds of course)

My HTC Desire is in for repair. 4 weeks today in fact. Last I was told it was on its way to HTC for repair. Not bad for a phone that I had less than 2 weeks before it died. I can't understand why Vodafone take 4 weeks to decide they can't fix a phone before sending it onto the manufacture. I really need to find time to ring them and kick off.

SK[ said,]

My HTC Desire is in for repair. 4 weeks today in fact. Last I was told it was on its way to HTC for repair. Not bad for a phone that I had less than 2 weeks before it died. I can't understand why Vodafone take 4 weeks to decide they can't fix a phone before sending it onto the manufacture. I really need to find time to ring them and kick off.

How exactly is that Android's fault? That's Vodafone's fault.

zerokool316 said,
And because of Steve is the reason I switched to android, thanks Steve for opening my eyes. I hate arrogant CEOs, that's why I also left at&t, now am on Verizon the crap of communication

You let one man have that much control over your thought process? You not only chose a different device, but you switched carriers because one man, who you've never met, is arrogant. Wow!

Leroy Jethro Gibbs said,

If you choose what you buy based on some dude, heck even the top dude in the company that's said as well as stupid.

I beg to differ, it is fairly common for people to base their decisions on how they perceive a company or a person that represents a company. For instance, would you buy a product from a store/company whose owner was a know pedophile, even if it was the best product available?

Gold... I love it when "fights at the big-boys golf club" are aired in public like this.

Well really it's one arrogant jerk spouting off and everyone else staring and looking and trying to be polite, but after a while you can only take so much before reacting.

Jobs is an arrogant genius who cannot admit his massive hypocrisy or that even HE gets things wrong every now and then.

Interesting to note WinPhone7 curiously silent/absent in all this. Ultimately this market will be a two horse race between Apple and WinPhone7, with Android becoming the new Linux.

Hmmmm...interesting thought but I'd have to disagree. I think Google has a lot of weight to throw around (with the capital to match) and they've always been successful when they take something head on (at least as far as I know). If WinMo7 turns out to be as good as Windows 7 then I definitely think it'll chew into the market shares of Apple, Android, and Blackberry but I'm not sure it's going to be good enough to knock out Android and Blackberry to make it a two horse race. Just my thought...

timljohns said,
Gold... I love it when "fights at the big-boys golf club" are aired in public like this.

Well really it's one arrogant jerk spouting off and everyone else staring and looking and trying to be polite, but after a while you can only take so much before reacting.

Jobs is an arrogant genius who cannot admit his massive hypocrisy or that even HE gets things wrong every now and then.

Interesting to note WinPhone7 curiously silent/absent in all this. Ultimately this market will be a two horse race between Apple and WinPhone7, with Android becoming the new Linux.

LOL. WP7 isn't even going to be a factor. It's a two horse race between iOS and Android. WP7 isn't going to do much with that UI.

Ji@nBing said,
LOL. WP7 isn't even going to be a factor. It's a two horse race between iOS and Android. WP7 isn't going to do much with that UI.

In your opinion, many will disagree.

Ji@nBing said,
LOL. WP7 isn't even going to be a factor. It's a two horse race between iOS and Android. WP7 isn't going to do much with that UI.

I don't agree...I really am interested in the UI, looks very interesting and seems to bring in a new experience (different from the Symbian-inherited icon grid everyone uses)

Xenosion said,
I really like the comments by Jim Balsillie. Very well put together, factual, and to the point.
Agreed. Glad he set the record straight with how the two companies REALLY matched up when comparing sales figures.

Tim Dawg said,
Agreed. Glad he set the record straight with how the two companies REALLY matched up when comparing sales figures.

You're kidding right? Compare RIMM's stock price from a year ago to today. Its hard to say that they're treading water. That company is sinking. And those sales figures are padded by by-one get-one free promotions. But he won't mention that.

asdavis10 said,

You're kidding right? Compare RIMM's stock price from a year ago to today. Its hard to say that they're treading water. That company is sinking. And those sales figures are padded by by-one get-one free promotions. But he won't mention that.

Stock price is not always related to how well a company is doing now...if so, MS stock would always be going up, as they usually have very good numbers...

asdavis10 said,

You're kidding right? Compare RIMM's stock price from a year ago to today. Its hard to say that they're treading water. That company is sinking. And those sales figures are padded by by-one get-one free promotions. But he won't mention that.

Yes because America's cell phone deals = the world's cell phone deals right?

And even if Verizon did give away 1 blackberry free if you bought another one, you think RIM gave them that blackberry for free? No. They still made a sale, and they still got money from it.

tehmemories said,
I'm still waiting for a straight Android based mp3 player.

Phillips Gogear Connect , Samsung YP-mb2 (not yet out) plus as say above me Archos.

And don't forget the china market wich can have android PMP too

Leroy Jethro Gibbs said,

+1

Great products, real jack***!


Yeah, I do believe the iPod is a revolutionary device, but man, STFU Steve, you are saying too much when you are having really big problems.

rakeshishere said,
I like Apple products but i hate steve jobs for his arrogance
He's not arrogant. You're just hearing him wrong. /sarcasm

rakeshishere said,
I like Apple products but i hate steve jobs for his arrogance
He is and he can be arrogant because there's nobody else doing a better job than him.

Tim Dawg said,
He's not arrogant. You're just hearing him wrong. /sarcasm

ROFL - This made me laugh too!
I do however honestly believe that his "arrogance" or "blind belief in his companies products" is actually what makes Apple so successful. He has proved that their is a market of millions of people that want to be led as oppose to having a choice. Not everyone likes power, Apple products are a 'safe' buy.
This coming from the owner of an iPhone and an iPad... I'm no fanboy, but right now the products have so much backing from other companies that the APP store is just so vast. The minute something is more popular - I'll leave! Maybe Android in a year? maybe WP7... Can't see RIM making ground though..

Tim Dawg said,
He's not arrogant. You're just hearing him wrong. /sarcasm

He is arrogant. What the hell are you talking about? You are so stupid to defend him. Oops, sorry. You were kidding. I shot my mouth off like Steve Jobs did without getting the facts. LOL.

Jebadiah said,
He is and he can be arrogant because there's nobody else doing a better job than him.

+1
If other CEO's were constantly driving their stock up and shattering earnings estimates then they'd have the right to say whatever they wanted to say. Jobs is a great salesmen and it shows.

rakeshishere said,
I like Apple products but i hate steve jobs for his arrogance

This... I hate Steve because he is arrogant. He is rich but still he never do any charity which shows that he just care about money. I have decided i will never ever buy Apple product in my life and i will do whatever i can to stop my family and friends from buying apple products.

Pixil Eyes said,
Great last line.

Ill +1 to that

Theres only so much abuse apple can thrown into the mix before people start ro see through the white fog

ccoltmanm said,

Last episode of TNG: "All Good Things..."


All good things must come to an end...

By the time it all comes to an end, Steve Jobs will be retired, relaxing and out of the picture. So he's enjoying his time while he is still the CEO.