Google VS Apple: Google lose ‘rubber banding' case in Germany

Please, just make it all stop! As much as we all love a bit of scandal and gossip (yes, all of us), the Patent Wars between every major mobile device hardware and/or software vendor is reaching new heights.

Well Apple has been able to add another tick in the win column, this time beating Google. A German court has made Apple victors in a case against Google, early this morning, according to FOSS Patents’ Florian Mueller.


A quick example of the rubber banding on the iPhone

It’s been ruled that Motorola smartphones and tablets have infringed on a patent more commonly referred to as ‘rubber banding’. This is where a user will reach the end of a scrolling list, only to get a snap back effect letting them know.

Apple has multiple options open to them at the moment. It comes down to this:

  • A 25 million Euro bond, Apple can get all devices blocked from sale
  • A 35 million Euro bond, Apple can get all devices recalled
  • A 45 million Euro bond, Apple can get all devices destroyed

You read that right; destroyed! Mueller has stated:

It was Motorola who decided to attack Apple and Microsoft in Germany at a time when those companies were suing Motorola only in the United States. Now Motorola has already been found by German courts to infringe three Apple and two Microsoft patents. Since it doesn't have much market share in Germany, the immediate business impact of these decisions is asymmetrical to the impact of any ruling against Apple or Microsoft in this country. But the outcome of those cases shows that Android has far bigger patent infringement problems than any piece of computer software has ever had in the history of the industry, and this has many of Google's hardware partners profoundly concerned.

German courts have a lot of love for Apple products. We’ve had the Galaxy Tab 10.1 blocked from sale with a revised version allowed to be sold shortly after. It should also be noted that in July, Germany banned Motorola Android phones due to infringing on a Microsoft patent.

Source: CNN

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58 Comments

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Silly question-- but doesn't the Drag and grab end of line items patent not prevail over Apple's patent-- this one was way before Apple filed their patent?

Also when I look at that all I see is the Drag and Grab and move patent in action. Which is from IBM circa 1990's.

the only difference is there is no hand or cross hair represented.

Apple has multiple options open to them at the moment. It comes down to this:

A 25 million Euro bond, Apple can get all devices blocked from sale
A 35 million Euro bond, Apple can get all devices recalled
A 45 million Euro bond, Apple can get all devices destroyed

Patent violation error. (B)lock, (R)ecall, (D)estroy? __

When you can't innovate, litigate. Seems thats what everyones doing while the market suffocates and stays stagnant because all the developers are busy in court defending whatever they wrote code for.

My best analogy is Mr Christie copyrighting the cookie because they developed how to mix the ingredients together. They are not copyrighting their recipe though, Just the whole cookie concept.
Give me a break. Software developers should have to copyright the same way as any food company does. If they can't provide the source code, the copyright shouldn't be awarded. Even MS went through this in the EU back with XP or Vista I think, having to reveal their source code...

Ideas, concepts and mock-ups should be given a 'thoughful insight' award or something, where if ANY developer uses the feature, they can provide their own source and accreditation from the actual developer. Actual products and phsyical functions/sources should be copyrighted, just like a book. a 3D effect though? its like copyrighting pinstripes on a car.

I don't think Apple will be around much longer... Their latest lawsuit could have all Motorola Device sales blocked, all devices recalled and destroyed... If they keep going after the worlds largest companies there going to have way to many companies waiting to put them under. I think all the companies being harassed by Apple need to start buying out the 3rd party companies that make Apple components and not sell to Apple LOL

I think its silly of Apple... They lost the majority market share so lets sue everyone.... OMG you phone is rectangle.... Thats an Iphone patent infringement.... Cause everyone else should make star shaped phones cause thats useable....

The things apple sues over are silly and I don't consider infringement... Its like Windows and apple have their own version of a taskbar and the file bar above... they also have desktop icons.... Y... Cause how else would we interact with a computer....

apple lost the innovation war long ago, so the only way apple can stop Google / Android is by suing for things like this.
For apples sake I hope Google isn't going to do the same to them, when their "drop down notification" patent comes through.
Because then the war will never end and you and I will end up with cut down mobile OS's.

Hang on, the court case was between Motorola vs. Apple so where the hell does Google fit into that equation? As for the rubber band effect - release an update and voila no more problems and just demand that ones that are in stock are recalled, a new build non-infringing ROM is loaded on the phone sans the rubber band effect. I used to be quite the Apple fan but the behaviour of Apple combined with the behaviour of its fans is pushing me to purchasing a Samsung Series 9 laptop to replace my MacBook Pro and building my own PC to replace my iMac.

Mr Nom Nom's said,
Hang on, the court case was between Motorola vs. Apple so where the hell does Google fit into that equation?

Motorola is now owned by Google.

ichi said,
Motorola is now owned by Google.

Yes but it operates as a separate unit - Google setup the buy out of Motorola that way as to alay concerns by Android partners that they were going to lock them out or give Motorola an unfair advantage.

The heading of the article is quite misleading. Motorola has used the "rubber banding" effect in their Motoblur skin for their Android phones. As far as i know, Google is using a different set of effects on scrolling etc.

i never thought i need to say it but as lawsuits go i'm pretty happy... the world NEEDS Apple to kick in the teeth of google and its major OEMs, this is the only thing that stops them from devastating the whole mobile market

...and to be honest i'm sure google is ready for a lawsuit-boomerang with something similarly ridiculous, so just keep fisting

oh, and yeah: there's no really need for destroying - however it sounds jolly - the blocking of sales is quite enough

Mamoun said,

Please explain this.

Replace "thing that stops them from devastating the whole mobile market" with "way for WP to make a dent in the mobile market" and it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

szo said,
All companies have these trivial design patents!

But not all companies use those trivial design patents to drive competitors out of the market.

szo said,
All companies have these trivial design patents! Maybe the designs really are worth a lot to them!

Have you seen Google's design patent for their sparse homepage with the button and search box?


http://gawker.com/5350982/goog...s-worlds-simplest-home-page
http://www.patentadesign.com/g...ome-page-design-patent.html

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi...D599,372&RS=PN/D599,372

http://www.google.com/patents/US5371846

Yes especially this one- love how -- you can modify a patent just so then sue - Long ago before Apple had this patent- There was a scroll to end of document where the word- "end" would popup-- then take away the word end (replace with a bar) then call it yours.... brilliant ... anyone else see the pattern here...??

Apple is a bully; however, so is IBM and Google. (Which anyone that is an active reader of FOSS Patents already knows.)

This is a bully smacking around another bully. Karma?

thenetavenger said,
(Which anyone that is an active reader of FOSS Patents already knows.)

I'd take anything that comes from FOSS Patents with a huge pinch of salt, and not just because of Mueller being on Oracle's payrole during the Oracle vs Google trial.

I'm still waiting for any kind of official statement from Nokia about ASUS' licenses for their patents. Remember when Mueller spreaded as a fact that ASUS was infringing on Nokia's WIFI patents with their Nexus 7?

I'd rather read news and opinions from someone who hasn't been proven to be a paid shill.

ichi said,

I'd take anything that comes from FOSS Patents with a huge pinch of salt, and not just because of Mueller being on Oracle's payrole during the Oracle vs Google trial.

I'm still waiting for any kind of official statement from Nokia about ASUS' licenses for their patents. Remember when Mueller spreaded as a fact that ASUS was infringing on Nokia's WIFI patents with their Nexus 7?

I'd rather read news and opinions from someone who hasn't been proven to be a paid shill.

FOSS aside, have you read some of the Motorola/Google lawsuits and claims, especially the ones going after Microsoft and XBox?

Google claimed that being a new owner, they could opt out of the MPEG4 licensing pool, which is even a violation of the MPEG licensing to start with, as Google was a licensed member for 'usage'.

Then the WiFi lawsuit, again crazy stuff.

Google was trying to leverage whatever they could out of the Motorola Patent suitcase; however, any simple attorney would have told them, nope you can't do this crap. Especially since Motorola had previously licensed the technologies, just changing ownership is not enough to change the terms of the acquired licensing.

Additionally, Google by be a licensee of several of these 'pooled' technology directly invalidates any licensor claims that Motorola tries to define as different.

Google is not only a bully, but stupid beyond stupid if they think this will work out for them, as it will probably damage Google's RIGHTS to use other parts of the MPEG4 and WiFi specifications that Motorola doesn't own, and other members of the pool do, like Microsoft. Hack off nose to spite face 101.

As for Oracle vs Google, I'm no fan of Oracle or Sun, they were bullies in the 1990s. I can remember sitting through presentations by both companies numerous times that went ON AND ON AND ON about how horrible Microsoft was and how horrible Microsoft's products were, and the presentation was to showcase THEIR products, not talk about Microsoft.

So instead of learning about the latest Oracle Database products, we would hear an hour of how MSSQL sucked, or instead of how Solaris or JAVA was good, how NT sucked or how Microsoft sucked and IE was ruining the world by introducing RIA concepts into HTML/XML/XHTML, which Sun really hated as RIA competed with JAVA. Sun is of course why IE RIA concepts from the 90s were rejected by the W3C and 10 years later are an essential part of CSS3 and HTML5 to create RIA.


As for the Oracle vs Google, don't care so much, but from what I have read, Google is ripping off Oracle a bit, as it is not a secret that Dalvik is a JVM and does come from Sun technologies.

Which is strange that Google wouldn't of had better judgment when buying the Dalvik engine, as it was laced with controversy then, and if Google wasn't going to make their own anyway, they could have picked something less apt to be at the heart of a legal battle.

PS the ASUS Nokia WiFi ****ing match was in response to Google and Motorola trying to use their portion of WiFi to bully Microsoft, and Nokia joining in with the 'we can do that too' crap.

thenetavenger said,

As for the Oracle vs Google, don't care so much, but from what I have read, Google is ripping off Oracle a bit, as it is not a secret that Dalvik is a JVM and does come from Sun technologies.

Since they aren't violating Oracle's patents nor copyright I'd say they are pretty much in the clear.

thenetavenger said,

Which is strange that Google wouldn't of had better judgment when buying the Dalvik engine, as it was laced with controversy then, and if Google wasn't going to make their own anyway, they could have picked something less apt to be at the heart of a legal battle.

Maybe, but at least it turned out that this was a legal battle where they won with flying colors. If they had gone with other technology they might have found themselves in deeper trouble.

thenetavenger said,

PS the ASUS Nokia WiFi ****ing match was in response to Google and Motorola trying to use their portion of WiFi to bully Microsoft, and Nokia joining in with the 'we can do that too' crap.

But that's the thing: that "ASUS Nokia WiFi ****ing match" never happened. Mueller came up with that and every other news site was just quoting FOSS Patents.

FloatingFatMan said,
So glad this can never happen in the UK. UK law (sensibly) doesn't recognize software patents.

What difference does it make though? Motorola are hardly likely to release UK version of the phone with rubber banding just because they can.

Cyborg_X said,
I'm pretty sure my wm6 device had this in 2007.
Since Apple went after Google, it means WM probably gets away with it through the patient agreement the two companies have. If Microsoft was the owner, they would have been the ones suing.

Just to remind everyone, MS and Apple have a patent sharing agreement.. in shot, as long as neither side takes issue with it, they can use any of eachothers patents in any device in any way.

The official agreement is not to use them in competing devices, but they do, as long as they aren't going right after eachother and are a major threat..

So saying MS does it is meaningless, because MS is licensed to use it, and Apple is licensed to use MS's inovations..

Ryoken said,
Just to remind everyone, MS and Apple have a patent sharing agreement.. in shot, as long as neither side takes issue with it, they can use any of eachothers patents in any device in any way.

The official agreement is not to use them in competing devices, but they do, as long as they aren't going right after eachother and are a major threat..

So saying MS does it is meaningless, because MS is licensed to use it, and Apple is licensed to use MS's inovations..


FALSE.

The agreement isthey can use the patents in any way they want, as long as they don't copy the way it was done on another device.

Please get it right.

TechieXP said,

FALSE.

The agreement isthey can use the patents in any way they want, as long as they don't copy the way it was done on another device.

Please get it right.


That's only an issue if Apple/MS has an issue.. for 99.9% of the patents they share, they don't care if you use the same source code, cause it won't affect them.

They have that statement in the agreement for a rare time when they are direct and competitive and want to keep it for themselves..

TechieXP said,

FALSE.

The agreement isthey can use the patents in any way they want, as long as they don't copy the way it was done on another device.

Please get it right.

FALSE.

They are allow to use it as they wish they just cant "clone" the device, big difference.

Please get it right.

Stopped reading after I got to:


according to FOSS Patents' Florian Mueller.

This guy was discredited after it turned out he was on Oracle's payroll to discredit Google. I don't read any article anymore that has him as a source.

simplezz said,
Stopped reading after I got to:


This guy was discredited after it turned out he was on Oracle's payroll to discredit Google. I don't read any article anymore that has him as a source.

so if one doesn't agree with everything google does one gets discredited. wow.

neonspark said,

so if one doesn't agree with everything google does one gets discredited. wow.

No, Mueller gets discredited because he went around giving an "impartial professional opinion" without any kind of notice or disclaimer when he was in fact in Oracle's payroll.

Yes, this was not Google in this case. Also it is preliminary not final (so they just checked if it matched the patient, not if the patient was valid). That is why Apple must pay a bond because if they loose they are liable for damages.

Google should ditch Motoblur completely because vanilla Android used the blue blur effect which would circumvent this problem completely.

Fezmid said,
Software patents really need to go. It's getting ridiculous.

nonsense. windows phone rubber bands because unlike google, MSFT has no problem reaching reasonable license agreements for IP instead of simply ignoring them and pretend everything is free for the taking. they deserve this loss.

neonspark said,

nonsense. windows phone rubber bands because unlike google, MSFT has no problem reaching reasonable license agreements for IP instead of simply ignoring them and pretend everything is free for the taking. they deserve this loss.

Really, you call something as insignificant as a stupid 3d effect worthy of destroying all devices. Apples on a power trip. Honestly, theyre getting to the point where they want a global monopoly and only violence will stop them since the legal system is too broken to cut them off.

Fezmid said,
Software patents really need to go. It's getting ridiculous.

If Apple doesn't want to license cell phone tech since they invented the cell phone then DOJ should step in and sue them for Monopoly practices. I am sure companies would work with Apple but they are not being reasonable.

Fezmid said,
Software patents really need to go. It's getting ridiculous.

Lawyers make too much money on it...aint going to happen

Your handle is "beyond godlike" and you claim Apple is on a power trip??!? Yea, right.

Beyond Godlike said,

Really, you call something as insignificant as a stupid 3d effect worthy of destroying all devices. Apples on a power trip. Honestly, theyre getting to the point where they want a global monopoly and only violence will stop them since the legal system is too broken to cut them off.

Randall_Lind said,

If Apple doesn't want to license cell phone tech since they invented the cell phone then DOJ should step in and sue them for Monopoly practices. I am sure companies would work with Apple but they are not being reasonable.


It is actually the other way around. Notice the lack of lawsuits between Apple and Microsoft? They both play nicely with each other and come up with patent licensing agreements that work for both of them. Google's entire business structure involves giving software away for free and making money from the ads and selling of your personal information. Google refuses to get licensing agreements at market rates because their entire business model relies on software being free.

NeoPogo said,
Your handle is "beyond godlike" and you claim Apple is on a power trip??!? Yea, right.

What in the world does his handle have to do with anything? And why are you calling it a handle? I'd go with his 'username'. Unless you're some 50 year old cop doing a "To Catch a Predator" episode...

To go back to the beginning, I think his point was simply that it's a silly patent to have in the first place. It's an incredibly basic effect.

neonspark said,

nonsense. windows phone rubber bands because unlike google, MSFT has no problem reaching reasonable license agreements for IP instead of simply ignoring them and pretend everything is free for the taking. they deserve this loss.

Nonsense? Really?

Apple and Microsoft have a cross-license agreement because both have huge patent portfolios.

Now try to get into the market yourself, reach a patent agreement with Apple, Microsoft and all the other players and turn out profitable. Good luck with that.

Beyond Godlike said,

Really, you call something as insignificant as a stupid 3d effect worthy of destroying all devices. Apples on a power trip. Honestly, theyre getting to the point where they want a global monopoly and only violence will stop them since the legal system is too broken to cut them off.


Law is the the law. if that stupid 3d effect doesn't worth destroying their devices why would they copied that in first place. As much as I hate these wars and the money they waste for these ridiculous fights, I love innovation and seeing new effects and interfaces every year. Now there is a boring interface and grid of icons which really in my opinion Nokia invented not apple is on each f... device. Isn't it boring? The only innovation I have seen in recent years in gadgets UI was Windows Phone

neonspark said,

nonsense. windows phone rubber bands because unlike google, MSFT has no problem reaching reasonable license agreements for IP instead of simply ignoring them and pretend everything is free for the taking. they deserve this loss.
Microsoft and Apple have had broad cross licensing agreements which includes patents since the late 1990s. The only caveat to the licensing is that it has an "anti-cloning" provision, so that Microsoft or Apple couldn't directly clone the other's product, per se Microsoft selling an exact replica of the iPhone.

Edited by ahinson, Sep 14 2012, 4:19pm :

Beyond Godlike said,

Really, you call something as insignificant as a stupid 3d effect worthy of destroying all devices. Apples on a power trip. Honestly, theyre getting to the point where they want a global monopoly and only violence will stop them since the legal system is too broken to cut them off.

You guys suck at read.

Now Motorola has already been found by German courts to infringe three Apple and two Microsoft patents

MICROSOFT TOO. Apple just has the money to frivously make a decision and destroy or ban or recall. Microsoft hasnt been giving a decision. So this time its not just apple, but also microsoft. Google is infringing on BOTH COMPANIES PATENTS.

Also if you read before that, Motorola decided to sue first, and now got ****ED.

Get over it.

KCRic said,
What in the world does his handle have to do with anything? And why are you calling it a handle? I'd go with his 'username'. Unless you're some 50 year old cop doing a "To Catch a Predator" episode...

Some people call them usernames, some call them handles, get over it kiddo!!!!!

Fezmid said,
Software patents really need to go. It's getting ridiculous.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. If you spend time and money developing software, then I rip off your ideas and bring the same product to market for a fraction of the cost (because I didn't have to do the same R&D) you are totally cool with that? What if your product was no different than dozens other out there, expect for your one awesome new idea makes it much better? If everyone else is able to copy you, then you are back to all products being the same again, even after you spent X money to improve your product.

Pharmacy couldn't' exist without them. It might take a drug company over 10 years of testing to get a drug approved by the FDA. Imagine after all that money spent, if other companies could come along and make generic equivalents for nothing more than the cost of the chemicals. New drugs would almost never be developed because the millions spent in R&D would be nothing more than a donation to the industry.

neonspark said,

nonsense. windows phone rubber bands because unlike google, MSFT has no problem reaching reasonable license agreements for IP

I'm sorry - did Apple license "rubber banding" from the guy who invented the rubber band?

sphbecker said,
...

There's a large difference in complexity between the R&D on a new drug, and a software patent like slide-to-unlock or rubberbanding.

Toysoldier said,

Some people call them usernames, some call them handles, get over it kiddo!!!!!

Something tells me I'm older than you... kiddo. Whether that be mentally or physically also, I'm not certain.