Editorial

iOS on the iPad is stuck in the past and it's kind of embarrassing

When Apple launched the iPad, many thought it was simply a giant iPod touch. Yes, the similarities are quite obvious, but the iPad was closer to that of a notebook in terms of usability, than the iPod touch. While the company's hardware has continued to push forward, Apple’s software for its tablet have not kept up with the industry trends.

When the iPad hit the market, it set the stage for what consumers could expect in the re-launched tablet space. A well-built, relatively thin device with great battery life and software that was finger-friendly and ready for anything you could throw at it (besides Flash). It was great, Apple sold millions, made billions, and it all went according to Apple’s grand vision of dominating the segment.

I won’t argue that Apple executed extremely well, there is no question there. The hardware of the iPad is the best on the market and they continue to make quality and durable goods with each new release. Where Apple has fallen short, however, is that its software has not kept up with the industry in many ways. Why do the iPhone and iPad have the same software features?

It’s not a secret that I have a healthy mix of hardware in my house. I have lots of Apple gear and loads of Windows machines around from reviews past and present. While inevitably, when writing any kind of editorial such as this one, you will get labeled a fanboy, I do use a bit of everything, as I use what’s best for my needs, not what’s best to portray a certain type of image.

A few days back, I pulled out my iPad 3 and charged it up, mostly to make sure that it was still working. It had been so long since I had used it that it still had a version of iOS 6 installed, so I promptly updated it after charging the battery. What I had forgotten is that Apple keeps its tablets locked to the same feature set as its phone, as if both devices are used for the exact same thing.

When using the iPad, which has a nearly 10-inch display, you can’t run two apps (aside from music) at the same time. What? I completely forgot about this, as I had grown accustomed to Windows and Android tablets that can run two apps at the same time on this size of a display. I’m a prolific Twitter user, and not being able to see my feed while browsing the web forced me to jump between both apps constantly – hardly a fun experience.

iOS on the phone not allowing multiple apps to be displayed at once makes sense. You have a small screen, and viewing two apps at the same time would offer a poor experience. But on a tablet, especially the iPad Air, the screen real estate is not used to its full potential.

It’s a missed opportunity to expand the capabilities of Apple’s tablets.

Sure, you could argue that iOS on the iPad is made for the simpleton and should not include fancy multi-app layouts, as that goes against iOS basic premise, or the fact that apps are not designed to handle split screen, you could say that. But, only building a device that appease the lowest rung on the intellectual pole is not a strategy for the future. The hardware inside the iPad is become increasingly powerful and capable of running fantastic applications but again, only one at a time.

It’s a missed opportunity to expand the capabilities of Apple’s tablets. By increasing the usability of the device, it opens up more possibilities where the iPad could cut even deeper into the PC space but for now, it seems Apple is content on staying the course for what was working 4 years ago in the software world.

For Apple, iOS is doing what it needs to do to stay relevant on smartphones – no argument there. But in the tablet space, iOS needs differentiating features for larger screens as what works well on a 4-inch screen does not take full advantage of its capabilities on a nearly 10-inch screen, causing iOS to fall behind Android and Windows.

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IMO i like apple and have invested in to the ecosystem, i have also invested in to the android ecosystem quite heavily,apple make great products, but i agree with the article, the ipad is an iphone without phone capabilities and a bigger screen, you could just get a cap[le to link iphone to tv and save money or get an apple tv for that matter, in terms on tablet use it why i wouldnt get another ipad unless they made a mac tablet, id go with a surface pro 2 for tablets needs as its a full fledged pc, also the lack of a internal file explorer and at least basic access has pushed me away from the apple ecosystem as well as the small iphone displays.

i will say this though, i find it hilarious that people get so worked up over things like this, its kinda sad IMO, and be aware that unless someone is quoting anything or linking to evidence then all they say is there own opinion, everyone is entitled to it, and shame on anyone who tries forcing there opinion on others, its this type of behavior that stops humans evolving further.
i couldnt care less about your opinions as i have my own. thanks
and much love neowin, ive been coming to this page almost daily for 7 years, i love it.

I have ZERO idea why anyone would purchase an iPad these days. Having had a 1st gen and an ipad Air in the house running alongside my Surface RT the Surface runs circles around the iPads. The ONLY downside to the Surface is the app selection, and frankly, because I tend to use predominantly web-based apps/services that's not much of an issue. Besides, the app gap is shrinking (at least for the "must-have" apps).

The iPad is slick hardware as far as the processor and screen are concerned, but it's running an interface only my grandma could love. Lack of multi-tasking is a non-starter, plus there are no ports, no native outputs (without a ridiculous accessory), a proprietary connector, no expandable memory.....in short, it's not worth the price.

Best hardware?

Yeah.. ARM vs Traditional x86. Laughable to say the least. Now put an AMD APU in an Surface pro and it becomes even more laugable on the graphics end of things.

I think you're wrong. iOS on my iPad is my favourite part about my iPad. I didn't buy it to be a computer, I bought it to be a tablet.

Totally agree, iOS is a dinosaur of an OS now. Very little has been done to improve it over the last 5 years. It works OK on the tiny iPhone screen, but in so many ways the Windows 8.1 interface experience is far superior.

Luckily, there are a gazillion apps for everything developed for iOS so you can just download yet another app to make up for at least some of its shortcomings.

I personally like these kinds of editorials. Everyone should be free to voice their opinion and after we can go and discuss it. I mean, just look at anything Apple related on this forum and how many people reply to it. But this is also where I see negative aspects of this website. It's like the moderators are surprised when these articles turn into nothing but a bunch of insults.

Certain people on this forum don't realize tha Apple, like Microsoft and Google and thousands of other companies, are here to make money. That is the sole purpose of every company, to make money and turn profit. Yet those same people like to attack others for buying Apple products. I won't name any names but same people, over and over again, keep calling other sheep and talking about Apple flavoured cool aid or the distortion field. This is something that doesn't belong on these forums. And it's why I'm surprised that the moderators themselves aren't doing a better job. I only criticize because I love this site and would like to see an improvement. But something makes me think that I will either get a warning for writhing this or it will simply be erased.

stevan said,
I personally like these kinds of editorials. Everyone should be free to voice their opinion and after we can go and discuss it. I mean, just look at anything Apple related on this forum and how many people reply to it. But this is also where I see negative aspects of this website. It's like the moderators are surprised when these articles turn into nothing but a bunch of insults.

Certain people on this forum don't realize tha Apple, like Microsoft and Google and thousands of other companies, are here to make money. That is the sole purpose of every company, to make money and turn profit. Yet those same people like to attack others for buying Apple products. I won't name any names but same people, over and over again, keep calling other sheep and talking about Apple flavoured cool aid or the distortion field. This is something that doesn't belong on these forums. And it's why I'm surprised that the moderators themselves aren't doing a better job. I only criticize because I love this site and would like to see an improvement. But something makes me think that I will either get a warning for writhing this or it will simply be erased.

No one has ever attacked you for buying Apple products. I personally could give 2 cents about what product you buy or like.

NO! What you get attacked for is your constant cheerleading and telling people they are wrong with no legitimate explanation of why. But then when they prove YOU are wrong with linked facts, you resort to name calling and petty crying like you are doing now.

I had to iPhones. In fact I wantd an iPhone since the 3GS came out. I didn't buy it because I had what I felt was a better phone. At the time, being able to sync with Outlook and have Office on the go was more important. Also at the time, bringing your own phone to the table was not acceptable. things changed. When they did I bought an iPhone 4 and 4S.

The IPhone 5 simply wasn't worth the upgrade to just get .5" in size increase and still a non-standard sub_HD resolution. I got tired of the tiny screen. Here is what sucked most about the display. It was already small, then using an IPS which is a high resolution crammed into such a small space made everything to small for my liking and I got tired of it.

The first iPad was nothing more than an iPod Touch with blowup phone apps. The same criticism you ll give Android application. In reality every platform has this. After all, all those apps were born on the smartphone before the tablet. Right?

I was given the first iPad model. I sold it and got the 2 and later the 3. I haven't bought one since. Why? Because nothing has changed so why spend more money to get the same thing?

I have had phones from Moto, HTC who I use to love, Palm and others. Samsung now is what I have and I have no regrets. It has the capabilities I prefer, at the cost of an iPhone. It is bigger, faster, more durable and looks better too. Looks are subject to you choice. iPhone has remain basically identical since day one. Unless you hold it it is nearly impossible to tell some models apart. No other phone on this planet is like that.

If you cant handle the heat, get out the kitchen. Fanbois are all alike anyways. They cant take a joke, but are quick to disk them. When they lose a battle they retort to name calling and then the they are picking on me speech.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
A company with 500 employees is considered a Fortune 500 company.

Sorry man, but it's when you say such things that I realize that you don't have a clue what you're saying. The above post is full of grammar errors. Don't rush to write, take your time and make sure it all makes sense.

stevan said,

Sorry man, but it's when you say such things that I realize that you don't have a clue what you're saying. The above post is full of grammar errors. Don't rush to write, take your time and make sure it all makes sense.

Someone else read it and even liked it. I guess they had no problem understanding it.

Oh and again, when you can't debate what was said, I left out the 3rd thing fans resort too. Pointing out grammatical errors.

LOL. See fanboi is no long just a moniker, it is what many people are based on definition.

Oh and I agreed on some level with your post. All those company's are in business to make money. WE KNOW THAT.

What you have failed to see is company's that give us better products like Microsoft and Google make more money over time. You think Apple in its lifetime has made more money than Microsoft? Because I doubt it.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Someone else read it and even liked it. I guess they had no problem understanding it.

Oh and again, when you can't debate what was said, I left out the 3rd thing fans resort too. Pointing out grammatical errors.

LOL. See fanboi is no long just a moniker, it is what many people are based on definition.

Oh and I agreed on some level with your post. All those company's are in business to make money. WE KNOW THAT.

What you have failed to see is company's that give us better products like Microsoft and Google make more money over time. You think Apple in its lifetime has made more money than Microsoft? Because I doubt it.

Awesome,you got a like.

Apple in its lifetime made more money that both Microsoft and definitely Google...

Why does everything have to be the same these days? What happened to get the product that suits you? Who cares if iOS does not have feature X and Android does? If you want feature X, get Android!

I do not care about running apps side-by-side, I do not care about all of these features listed. iOS is great IN MY OPINION. I like the fact that, out of the box, I have access to my entire iTunes library, iCloud keychain and other data, and iCloud tabs. I like the fact that it is simple. Do I sit here an mock Android? No. I accept that different products have different qualities.

xWhiplash said,
Who cares if iOS does not have feature X and Android does? If you want feature X, get Android!

Isn't that a bit ridiculous to say when you know iOS is losing marketshares as fast as a stone is sinking in an ocean?

The 80% Android marketshare is a good example of that stupid argument. With arguments like that, it seems like Apple doesn't want to get more customers.

The global marketshare for iOS speaks for it self that iOS is getting more and more irrelevant.

Exynos said,

Isn't that a bit ridiculous to say when you know iOS is losing marketshares as fast as a stone is sinking in an ocean?

The 80% Android marketshare is a good example of that stupid argument. With arguments like that, it seems like Apple doesn't want to get more customers.

The global marketshare for iOS speaks for it self that iOS is getting more and more irrelevant.

And who do you think has all the profits? Or the majority of developers?

Haha nice one...

stevan said,

And who do you think has all the profits? Or the majority of developers?

Haha nice one...


So money is everything?

I recommend you to go out and take a breath of fresh air and experience the real world (not the Apple bubble world) and leave the Apple glasses you are sitting behind all the time while defending Apple for the most ridiculous things.

Exynos said,

So money is everything?

I recommend you to go out and take a breath of fresh air and experience the real world (not the Apple bubble world) and leave the Apple glasses you are sitting behind all the time while defending Apple for the most ridiculous things.

Yes, in corporate world, money IS everything. Every corporation wants to maximize it's profits. No bubble needed. But it looks like you may need some economics classes.

stevan said,

Yes, in corporate world, money IS everything. Every corporation wants to maximize it's profits. No bubble needed. But it looks like you may need some economics classes.

I agree. If you make a product and it sells VERY WELL, you would be happy. Who the hell cares if it does not have feature X or feature Y. That is why we have different products in the first place right?

stevan said,

Yes, in corporate world, money IS everything. Every corporation wants to maximize it's profits. No bubble needed. But it looks like you may need some economics classes.


No. I'm pretty sure quite alot more than just money is what counts for a successfull business.

Support, quality on their products, good prices is some few things that counts to.

Do money counts if a company like Apple loses marketshare every weeks and gets so small in the end that no one really cares about Apple anylonger no matter how much money Apple have?

Edited by Exynos, Feb 14 2014, 3:15pm :

Exynos said,

No. I'm pretty sure quite alot more than just money is what counts for a successfull business.

Support, quality on their products, good prices is some few things that counts to.

Do money counts if a company like Apple loses marketshare every weeks and gets so small in the end that no one really cares about Apple anylonger no matter how much money Apple have?

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

stevan said,

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.


You didn't even answer my question, witch makes your post even dumber.

Exynos said,

You didn't even answer my question, witch makes your post even dumber.

Please go troll another forum. Here you've been proven wrong every time you speak. And go take so,e economics and business classes please.

stevan said,

Please go troll another forum. Here you've been proven wrong every time you speak. And go take so,e economics and business classes please.


Don't cry because i came with an argument that you can't counter.

Um, if a company loses market share, they are not selling as much. Therefore, they lose money. You cannot have very very very low market share and get a lot of money.

But business are in it to make money. That is it. Losing market share turns into losing money.

xWhiplash said,
Um, if a company loses market share, they are not selling as much. Therefore, they lose money. You cannot have very very very low market share and get a lot of money.

But business are in it to make money. That is it. Losing market share turns into losing money.


17-18% global marketshare as iOS have is very low compared to what Android have.

So yes, you can earn tons of money even with low marketshare.

But the real question is, is is better to have tons of cash in the bank or to have a high market share?

Exynos said,

But the real question is, is is better to have tons of cash in the bank or to have a high market share?

Please for the love of god go take an economics class. It will answer this question for you.

Having low market share made Apple the biggest IT company in the world. They make twice as much as Samsung who has a much higher market share.

Feel stupid now?

stevan said,

Please for the love of god go take an economics class. It will answer this question for you.

Having low market share made Apple the biggest IT company in the world. They make twice as much as Samsung who has a much higher market share.

Feel stupid now?


Again, you think money is all, witch makes the whole conversation stupid.

Exynos said,

Again, you think money is all, witch makes the whole conversation stupid.

Yes it is. After all share prices go up and down based on profits (money) and not on market share. Economics 101.

stevan said,

Yes it is. After all share prices go up and down based on profits (money) and not on market share. Economics 101.


Again, money is not everything.

Come back later when Apples marketshare is so little that everyone wont care about Apple anylonger and then come back and tell me how much those money Apple have in their bank counts.

Exynos said,

Again, money is not everything.

Come back later when Apples marketshare is so little that everyone wont care about Apple anylonger and then come back and tell me how much those money Apple have in their bank counts.

You gotta go back to school man. You just don't get how capitalism and corporations work. Marketshare doesn't matter at all when you're making money.

Apples Marketshare has been decreasing in both iPads and iPhones yet their sales has been increasing and so have profits.

You must be a mad Apple hater not to notice that.

Reported you for trolling.

stevan said,

You gotta go back to school man. You just don't get how capitalism and corporations work. Marketshare doesn't matter at all when you're making money.

Apples Marketshare has been decreasing in both iPads and iPhones yet their sales has been increasing and so have profits.

You must be a mad Apple hater not to notice that.

Reported you for trolling.


I might not like Apple for several reasons, but when you try to hard to convince someone that they are wrong without even trying to show the evidences that they are wrong and you are right, i'm afraid it's YOU that are trolling here.

Yeah, report me as much as you like, because i can actually report you back for abusing the report system in the wrong way. But as usual, i'm a nice guy and wont do that because i know i and Hi_XPecTa_Chens is right and you are wrong. So i have nothing to worry about.

Exynos said,

I might not like Apple for several reasons, but when you try to hard to convince someone that they are wrong without even trying to show the evidences that they are wrong and you are right, i'm afraid it's YOU that are trolling here.

Yeah, report me as much as you like, because i can actually report you back for abusing the report system in the wrong way. But as usual, i'm a nice guy and wont do that because i know i and Hi_XPecTa_Chens is right and you are wrong. So i have nothing to worry about.

Still didn't answer how their market share is decreasing yet sales and profits going up? Or is that too much for you?

You and TechieXP are same accounts right?

stevan said,

Still didn't answer how their market share is decreasing yet sales and profits going up? Or is that too much for you?

You and TechieXP are same accounts right?


Just because you earn more money doesn't mean anything for how well you do on the market worldwide.

Do you think anyone will look at Apple with 1% worldwide iOS marketshare (an example) while Android have 94% (an example) ?

And no, i only have Exynos as a users.

Exynos said,

Just because you earn more money doesn't mean anything for how well you do on the market worldwide.

Do you think anyone will look at Apple with 1% worldwide iOS marketshare (an example) while Android have 94% (an example) ?

And no, i only have Exynos as a users.

And if with that 1% Apple earns billions more than any other android manufacturer, why does market share matter?

Bc it looks like the less market apple has that more money they make...

stevan said,

And if with that 1% Apple earns billions more than any other android manufacturer, why does market share matter?

Bc it looks like the less market apple has that more money they make...


Because most peoples will believe no one gives a crap about Apple if they only have 1% marketshare. When peoples sees that Android is everywhere and used everywhere, what do you think those peoples will think about what phone to buy?

I think most smartphone users cares more about what's more popular and most used over what a company is having in money in their bank.

Exynos said,

Because most peoples will believe no one gives a crap about Apple if they only have 1% marketshare. When peoples sees that Android is everywhere and used everywhere, what do you think those peoples will think about what phone to buy?

I think most smartphone users cares more about what's more popular and most used over what a company is having in money in their bank.

But android already has a ton more Marketshare. Like 5 times more than iOS. Yet Apple still sells more and more iOS devices every year.

Which makes your point invalid

stevan said,
But android already has a ton more Marketshare. Like 5 times more than iOS. Yet Apple still sells more and more iOS devices every year.

Which makes your point invalid


Ehm, the worldwide marketshare is going down every months for iOS. And normal peoples sees this all the time.

Just because Apple sells more every year, it wont help when peoples sees that the marketshare worldwide drops like a stone in an ocean. Peoples will think 'what's going on' when iOS looses so much marketshare every months and will go over to Android as it have WAAAAAY way more marketshare and will have much more support and much more applications to choose from and will be a safer platform to settle on for the future. That's what the casual user will think.

EDIT: And what will the money Apple have do for the newcomers to smartphones over what Android does for newcomers?

Edited by Exynos, Feb 14 2014, 8:08pm :

Exynos said,

Ehm, the worldwide marketshare is going down every months for iOS. And normal peoples sees this all the time.

Just because Apple sells more every year, it wont help when peoples sees that the marketshare worldwide drops like a stone in an ocean. Peoples will think 'what's going on' when iOS looses so much marketshare every months and will go over to Android as it have WAAAAAY way more marketshare and will have much more support and much more applications to choose from and will be a safer platform to settle on for the future.

People don't buy phones based on Marketshare. This is where you're wrong. They buy it based on price mostly. This is why most of the android growth is in the lower end. Look it up.

You seriously think that people go into store and say: "I need a new phone, which phone has the biggest worldwide Marketshare?" Come on buddy you're just sounding like an idiot now.

Apple with their 15-18% Marketshare has more profits than ALL of android. Marketshare means nothing. Soon WP will also overtake iOS but that either won't matter.

And guess who can put more money towards products, a company with the most money in the bank or a company whose sales are mostly lower end phones. Don't have to answer that one, I've seen your lack of knowledge in economics.

stevan said,

People don't buy phones based on Marketshare. This is where you're wrong. They buy it based on price mostly. This is why most of the android growth is in the lower end. Look it up.

You seriously think that people go into store and say: "I need a new phone, which phone has the biggest worldwide Marketshare?" Come on buddy you're just sounding like an idiot now.

Apple with their 15-18% Marketshare has more profits than ALL of android. Marketshare means nothing. Soon WP will also overtake iOS but that either won't matter.

And guess who can put more money towards products, a company with the most money in the bank or a company whose sales are mostly lower end phones. Don't have to answer that one, I've seen your lack of knowledge in economics.


So, peoples buys iPhone because Apple have a large e-penis to boast about that they have alot of money in their bank?

You are wrong if you think peoples buys phones because of that. Peoples buys phones because they have alot of support and because they have alot of good applications. That's the reason. And what do you think peoples thinks about good applications and support with 1% marketshare (an example)?

And why do you think Android got so popular?

Was it because Google made alot of money via Android?

LOL.

Yes, iOS have 15-17% marketshare now. But in the 1st quarter of next year Apple might just have 10% marketshare worldwide. The lesser marketshare they have, the more irrelevant they will be. You see how much relevant Windows Phone is today with it's little marketshare it have today. When Windows Phone is as irrelevant as it is now, then what makes the iOS to not be as much irrelevant as Windows Phone is now when the iOS marketshare drops so much?

Edited by Exynos, Feb 14 2014, 8:43pm :

Exynos said,

So, peoples buys iPhone because Apple have a large e-penis to boast about that they have alot of money?

You are wrong if you think peoples buys phones because of that. Peoples buys phones because they have alot of support and because they have alot of good applications. That's the reason. And what do you think peoples thinks about good applications and support with 1% marketshare (an example)?

And why do you think Android got so popular?

Was it because Google made alot of money via Android?

LOL.

Yes, iOS have 15-17% marketshare now. But in the 1st quarter of next year Apple might just have 10% marketshare worldwide. The lesser marketshare they have, the more irrelevant they will be. You see how much relevant Windows Phone is today with it's little marketshare it have today. When Windows Phone is as irrelevant as it is now, then what makes the iOS to not be as much irrelevant as Windows Phone when the iOS marketshare drops so much?

Reports you for trolling for the first sentence.

For the rest, take economics 101 at any university. It will open your eyes.

stevan said,

Reports you for trolling for the first sentence.

For the rest, take economics 101 at any university. It will open your eyes.


Maybe you should come outside of this Apple bubble and educate yourself in this thing that is called 'Reality 101'?.

When it's about the reporting, then just let it out, it's no shame to fell some tears.

Exynos said,

Maybe you should come outside of this Apple bubble and educate yourself in this thing that is called 'Reality 101'?.

When it's about the reporting, then just let it out, it's no shame to fell some tears.

I can't keep arguing with you until you take economics 101. You can also do it online.

stevan said,

I can't keep arguing with you until you take economics 101. You can also do it online.


And you can do the 'reality 101' by go outside and take a fresh air and look around on where the earth around you are at.

[quote=Exynos said,]
And you can do the 'reality 101' by go outside and take a fresh air and look around on where the earth around you are at.[/quote

Now you're just being a silly troll

stevan said,


Haha so glad to have rattled you. As many other have said, you truly are a moron.


Says the guy that have to call others for names. That's the point where you have lost.

Have a good day.

Exynos said,

Peoples buys phones because they have alot of support and because they have alot of good applications.

In case you haven't noticed... the iPhone has TONS of support and TONS of great apps.

And all this without having the most market share.

Exynos said,

Yes, iOS have 15-17% marketshare now. But in the 1st quarter of next year Apple might just have 10% marketshare worldwide. The lesser marketshare they have, the more irrelevant they will be.

Again... that's not true in actuality.

Just look at how many iPhone-only apps there are. And look at all the accessories available for iPhones. Hell... there are companies who base their entire operation on making accessories for the iPhone.

That doesn't sound like irrelevancy to me.

I know it's difficult to understand how a platform with 10% market share can actually have more support, apps, games and accessories. But that's exactly what's happening.

When Android had 70% market share... developers and accessory makers preferred the iPhone.
When Android had 80% market share... developers and accessory makers preferred the iPhone.
And when Android has 90% market share... well... you know what will happen.

Sorry to burst your bubble... but market share isn't as important as you think it is.

Android market share makes a great headline... but there's no compelling story after that.

Edited by Michael Scrip, Feb 15 2014, 8:42am :

Michael Scrip said,

In case you haven't noticed... the iPhone has TONS of support and TONS of great apps.

And all this without having the most market share.


But do you think the casual user will think that if they see that iOS is almost non-existant in the market?

Michael Scrip said,
Again... that's not true in actuality.

Just look at how many iPhone-only apps there are. And look at all the accessories available for iPhones. Hell... there are companies who base their entire operation on making accessories for the iPhone.

That doesn't sound like irrelevancy to me.

I know it's difficult to understand how a platform with 10% market share can actually have more support, apps, games and accessories. But that's exactly what's happening.

When Android had 70% market share... developers and accessory makers preferred the iPhone.
When Android had 80% market share... developers and accessory makers preferred the iPhone.
And when Android has 90% market share... well... you know what will happen.

Sorry to burst your bubble... but market share isn't as important as you think it is.

Android market share makes a great headline... but there's no compelling story after that.


Yes, the lesser marketshare iOS has the more the chance is that developers is going to jump over to the biggest platform and leave the small platform they are on to go over to something that have alot more user and are more secured for the furture.

And guess what happens when peoples sees that developers leaves a platform?

Yes, the users leaves that platform to.

When it's about what platform developers prefers today, i'm pretty sure most prefers Android over iOS today as long as you don't have plans on ripping off your users by having idiotic prices on your apps on iOS. It's true that some years ago most developers did choose iOS over Android, but today, it's not the case.

So yes, the marketshare is very important as i said over.

Exynos said,

But do you think the casual user will think that if they see that iOS is almost non-existant in the market?

Apple will never be seen as "almost non-existant in the market"

I know you think that smaller market share means Apple will become invisible... but that won't happen.

There are already a billion Android devices out in the world... but people haven't forgotten about the iPhone.

Neither have developers or accessory makers...

Exynos said,

Yes, the lesser marketshare iOS has the more the chance is that developers is going to jump over to the biggest platform and leave the small platform they are on to go over to something that have alot more user and are more secured for the furture.

And guess what happens when peoples sees that developers leaves a platform?

Yes, the users leaves that platform to.

Android has 80% of the market. It is already the biggest platform by far.

But you forget that the iPhone makes developers A LOT of money despite its smaller market share and fewer users. And it's easier to support only a handful of Apple phones versus literally hundreds of Android phones. That's why developers won't "leave the small platform"

Again... it's not the size of the platform... it's how well the platform performs.

Exynos said,

When it's about what platform developers prefers today, i'm pretty sure most prefers Android over iOS today as long as you don't have plans on ripping off your users by having idiotic prices on your apps on iOS. It's true that some years ago most developers did choose iOS over Android, but today, it's not the case.

So yes, the marketshare is very important as i said over.

Android phones have more market share... but iPhone users actually spend more money. Again... that's why developers won't abandon the iPhone. The iPhone is simply too important to ignore.

I know Android's 80% market share seems like the more important number... but not when you look at the performance of the platform with only 10%

Android having more market share clearly isn't an automatic win for developers.

Michael Scrip said,
Apple will never be seen as "almost non-existant in the market"

I know you think that smaller market share means Apple will become invisible... but that won't happen.

There are already a billion Android devices out in the world... but people haven't forgotten about the iPhone.

Neither have developers or accessory makers...


If Windows Phone is as much irrelevant as it is now, what prevents iOS to get as much irrelevant in the market if it gets smaller?

Exactly, if Windows phone can be that, then iOS can be that to.

Michael Scrip said,
Android has 80% of the market. It is already the biggest platform by far.

But you forget that the iPhone makes developers A LOT of money despite its smaller market share and fewer users. And it's easier to support only a handful of Apple phones versus literally hundreds of Android phones. That's why developers won't "leave the small platform"

Again... it's not the size of the platform... it's how well the platform performs.


Because peoples who use iOS devices tends to throw away tons money on something that is useless or that is considered free on Android.

Just because it's a good platform to earn money on doesn't say anything if it's a good platform to use for the casual user.

The fact is that many even want to change from iOS to Android, but they can't because they are locked in after spending tons of money into the iOS platform. That's why so many are staying. And considering that everyone are free to leave Samsung for another Android brand is saying that Samsung is doing waaaay waaay better than iOS does as no one forces you to stay under the Samsung brand.

That's why Samsung's numbers are much greater than iOS is.

Michael Scrip said,
Android phones have more market share... but iPhone users actually spend more money. Again... that's why developers won't abandon the iPhone. The iPhone is simply too important to ignore.

I know Android's 80% market share seems like the more important number... but not when you look at the performance of the platform with only 10%

Android having more market share clearly isn't an automatic win for developers.


Like i said longer up, just because iOS users are FORCED to spend more money on something you can get for free or very cheap on Android, doesn't mean it's better for the casual users. For a developers perspective, it might be better in some areas, but we are talking about the casual user.

But what does that helps when Android is taking over iOS when it comes to earnings for applications and when more and more leaves iOS for Android?

The worldwide marketshare speaks for itself. It doesn't lie.

Exynos said,

If Windows Phone is as much irrelevant as it is now, what prevents iOS to get as much irrelevant in the market if it gets smaller?

Exactly, if Windows phone can be that, then iOS can be that to.

But you're forgetting that there are hundreds of millions of iOS devices out in the world today. In case you haven't noticed... Apple sells a ton of devices every quarter... and they have for many years. iOS devices also have tons of developer support, accessory support, and everything I've mentioned earlier.

Windows Phone doesn't have any of that.

I don't know why you keep trying to use Windows Phone as proof that smaller market share leads to irrelevancy.

Windows Phone is irrelevant not because of its market share... it's irrelevant because it simply doesn't offer as much to consumers as Android or iOS.

But as I have shown... iOS offers PLENTY to consumers. iOS has a vibrant ecosystem, plenty of accessories, docks, cases, etc.

Again... Windows Phone doesn't offer that.

You're right... Apple's share of the market is getting smaller as the entire market is getting bigger.

But Apple is selling more and more devices each year... which means more potential customers for developers. If there are 400 million iOS devices today... and 500 million iOS devices next year... that's good for developers.

That's the opposite of irrelevancy.


Exynos said,

Because peoples who use iOS devices tends to throw away tons money on something that is useless or that is considered free on Android.

Just because it's a good platform to earn money on doesn't say anything if it's a good platform to use for the casual user.

The fact is that many even want to change from iOS to Android, but they can't because they are locked in after spending tons of money into the iOS platform. That's why so many are staying. And considering that everyone are free to leave Samsung for another Android brand is saying that Samsung is doing waaaay waaay better than iOS does as no one forces you to stay under the Samsung brand.

That's why Samsung's numbers are much greater than iOS is.

People aren't throwing away tons of money on iOS. If iOS apps had no value whatsoever.. people wouldn't buy them at all.

But clearly people like iOS apps... as billions of iOS apps are purchased each year.

As for platform lock-in... Android/iOS is no different than Windows/Mac. None of my Windows programs will work on a Mac. And I've spent A LOT more money on Windows programs than I've ever spent on iOS.

Most of the apps I use on my iPhone are free anyway. The handful of paid iPhone apps I have total about $10 over the last 3 years. I could switch to Android if I wanted to... but I happen to like the iPhone (and a lot of other people do too)


Exynos said,

Like i said longer up, just because iOS users are FORCED to spend more money on something you can get for free or very cheap on Android, doesn't mean it's better for the casual users. For a developers perspective, it might be better in some areas, but we are talking about the casual user.

But what does that helps when Android is taking over iOS when it comes to earnings for applications and when more and more leaves iOS for Android?

The worldwide marketshare speaks for itself. It doesn't lie.

Nobody is FORCING anyone to spend money on iOS. There are plenty of free apps on iOS. The "casual user" isn't getting screwed on iOS anymore than they are on Android.

I haven't seen examples of "more and more leaving iOS for Android" either.

Oh I'm sure it happens... but those are being offset by more and more iOS devices being sold each year. Like I said... Apple's sales are going up. Apple has a HUGE customer base.

You're right... worldwide market share speaks for itself. It just isn't saying anything

Tons of Android devices are sold... but that doesn't make iOS irrelevant.

Michael Scrip said,
But you're forgetting that there are hundreds of millions of iOS devices out in the world today. In case you haven't noticed... Apple sells a ton of devices every quarter... and they have for many years. iOS devices also have tons of developer support, accessory support, and everything I've mentioned earlier.

Windows Phone doesn't have any of that.

I don't know why you keep trying to use Windows Phone as proof that smaller market share leads to irrelevancy.

Windows Phone is irrelevant not because of its market share... it's irrelevant because it simply doesn't offer as much to consumers as Android or iOS.

But as I have shown... iOS offers PLENTY to consumers. iOS has a vibrant ecosystem, plenty of accessories, docks, cases, etc.

Again... Windows Phone doesn't offer that.

You're right... Apple's share of the market is getting smaller as the entire market is getting bigger.

But Apple is selling more and more devices each year... which means more potential customers for developers. If there are 400 million iOS devices today... and 500 million iOS devices next year... that's good for developers.

That's the opposite of irrelevancy.


Just because there are houdreds of millions of iOS devices out there today doesn't says anything about how iOS will succeed in the future. Symbian phones was sold like hot cakes to back in the days and they had tons of developer support and alot of accessories. They basicly had everything to. But you saw how that went.

Sybmian back then was a very good OS and was working really good, but as the development of the OS started to slow down more and more, developers got tired and moved on to another platform. When that happened, the users got tired of no developments on Symbian and moved to a new platform to.

And what prevents this from happening for iOS when iOS is the slowest developing OS on the planet now?

Just because iOS is doing fine now, doesn't mean it will do fine next month or next year. As much as the worldwide marketshare for iOS is sinking, it's pretty obvious that iOS is doing something wrong and it will soon hurt Apple as iOS is Apple's main income when more and more leaves iOS for another platform. iOS is barely growing compared to what others does.

Not only that, but the iPad marketshare is dropping like a stone from an airplane to. What happens when that is tiny small compared to the other tablets out there?

Do you think peoples will buy iPhones and iPads if almost no one compared to what other tablets are selling is getting sold for Apple?

The more Android phones it gets out there, the more the chance is that more and more peoples will see the Android phones and buy them instead as they are good phones and are very cheap compared to iPhones.

Michael Scrip said,
People aren't throwing away tons of money on iOS. If iOS apps had no value whatsoever.. people wouldn't buy them at all.

But clearly people like iOS apps... as billions of iOS apps are purchased each year.

As for platform lock-in... Android/iOS is no different than Windows/Mac. None of my Windows programs will work on a Mac. And I've spent A LOT more money on Windows programs than I've ever spent on iOS.

Most of the apps I use on my iPhone are free anyway. The handful of paid iPhone apps I have total about $10 over the last 3 years. I could switch to Android if I wanted to... but I happen to like the iPhone (and a lot of other people do too)


LOL, when you have to pay money to play Angry Birds on iOS, then yes, you are throwing away money when all Angry Birds games are free on Android.

There are tons of apps for iOS that you have to pay for that are free on Android. This is the reason why developers are earning more on iOS than they do under Android, because you have to pay for everything under iOS for the most part. Ofc the distance between how much you earn under iOS is pretty close to be taken over by Android now. So it's just about time before Android will be a more profitable OS to develop on.

When it's about Windows and Mac. Windows is used for about 90% of the population that uses a computer. No one gives a crap about Mac OSX as no one are using it except for those who are producing musics and videos.

Michael Scrip said,
Nobody is FORCING anyone to spend money on iOS. There are plenty of free apps on iOS. The "casual user" isn't getting screwed on iOS anymore than they are on Android.

I haven't seen examples of "more and more leaving iOS for Android" either.

Oh I'm sure it happens... but those are being offset by more and more iOS devices being sold each year. Like I said... Apple's sales are going up. Apple has a HUGE customer base.

You're right... worldwide market share speaks for itself. It just isn't saying anything

Tons of Android devices are sold... but that doesn't make iOS irrelevant.


If you are playing Angry Birds on Android and are addicted to it and then later moves from Android to iOS. Then you are FORCED to pay for Angry Birds on iOS if you want to keep playing the game you are addicted to. So yes, you are forced to pay for alot of things under iOS that is free on Android.

You haven't seen examples that more and more are leaving Android for iOS?

LOL, why are the iOS marketshare worldwide dropping like a 2 ton rock from a cliff every months while Android just increases it's worldwide marketshare like a Nasa rocket taking off for the ISS every months then?

Ofc, iOS alone is getting "some" new users here and there. You can see that the increase iOS have compared to the others are tiny as feck. It's so horribly bad that i believe iOS have reached it's top level now.

So yes, the marketshare says alot.

Or can you explain WHY exactly it doesn't matter?

Exynos said,

Just because there are houdreds of millions of iOS devices out there today doesn't says anything about how iOS will succeed in the future. Symbian phones was sold like hot cakes to back in the days and they had tons of developer support and alot of accessories. They basicly had everything to. But you saw how that went.

WRONG. Symbian never sold hundreds of millions, not even close. Developers were never making BILLIONS of dollars and INCREASING every year.


more leaves iOS for another platform.

WRONG. Apple has the most converts when it comes to individual platforms. That means that more people leave android and other platforms to come to iOS than vice versa.

The more Android phones it gets out there, the more the chance is that more and more peoples will see the Android phones and buy them instead as they are good phones and are very cheap compared to iPhones.

WRONG. There's already 5x as many android phones out there, cheap and all, yet Apple sells more iphones and ipads every year.

LOL, when you have to pay money to play Angry Birds on iOS, then yes, you are throwing away money when all Angry Birds games are free on Android.

WRONG. Right now there are 7 free versions of Angry Birds on iOS store.

There are tons of apps for iOS that you have to pay for that are free on Android. This is the reason why developers are earning more on iOS than they do under Android, because you have to pay for everything under iOS for the most part. Ofc the distance between how much you earn under iOS is pretty close to be taken over by Android now. So it's just about time before Android will be a more profitable OS to develop on.

WRONG. Developers earn 3x as much on iOS as they do on any other platform. And that number isn't decreasing, but increasing.

When it's about Windows and Mac. Windows is used for about 90% of the population that uses a computer. No one gives a crap about Mac OSX as no one are using it except for those who are producing musics and videos.

Yet Apple has the most profits than the rest of the PC industry. Shows just how irrelevant the market share is.

You haven't seen examples that more and more are leaving Android for iOS?

Yes we have, it's in the statistics. More users are leaving Android for iOS than vice versa. Thanks for pointing that out.

stevan said,

WRONG. Symbian never sold hundreds of millions, not even close. Developers were never making BILLIONS of dollars and INCREASING every year.


Does it matter how much Symbian sold?

What matter is that back in the days Symbian was doing very well and sold extremely well in the market at that time witch is the point you are to blind to realize. So no, you are wrong.

stevan said,
WRONG. Apple has the most converts when it comes to individual platforms. That means that more people leave android and other platforms to come to iOS than vice versa.

The worlwide marketshare tells us all something else. You have to look at the big picture and not the small picture where things isn't telling the whole story. So you are wrong again.

stevan said,
WRONG. There's already 5x as many android phones out there, cheap and all, yet Apple sells more iphones and ipads every year.

Just because Apple sells "some" more devices every year doesn't tells us that Apple is going to survive. The more peoples that gets an Android device the more friends of those who have those Android phones will go for that instead since they will take Android as a safe platform to settle on as so many are using them. This is the hard reality you don't want to take to you.

How do you think iPhones was so popular before Android took off?

Because so many had iPhones at that time and very few had Android devices. So peoples was running like crazy to get an iPhone, because it was a safe choice as so many had them.

Now, it's the same case with Android. More and more peoples will see this and more will go for Android over iOS. So yes, you are wrong here to.

stevan said,
WRONG. Right now there are 7 free versions of Angry Birds on iOS store.

After checking closer, you are right. However, peoples pays for more on iOS because they have to over what they would have to do under Android. Android have ALOOOOT more free apps than iOS have. So you can't deny the fact that you have to pay for more under iOS than you have to pay for under Android.

stevan said,
WRONG. Developers earn 3x as much on iOS as they do on any other platform. And that number isn't decreasing, but increasing.

I recommend you to not sit here and flat out lying to us. Here is the proof that you are talking nonsense........

http://www.androidauthority.com/android-revenue-gap-327292/

http://www.businessinsider.com...-revenue-is-growing-2013-11

stevan said,
Yet Apple has the most profits than the rest of the PC industry. Shows just how irrelevant the market share is.

Yeah, because money in the bank is the deciding factor on what peoples chooses, lol.

Again, as i told earlier, peoples sees what their friends are using and sees that phones that are popular on what peoples are going to buy. If all of the friends to someone except for one is using Android, what phone do you think this person is going to buy?

Yeah, Apple have this big ego e-penis to stroke around and boast about how rich they are. That's clearly gonna make peoples want to buy something from them. Haven't you heard that the more money someone have, the more stupid they gets?

stevan said,
Yes we have, it's in the statistics. More users are leaving Android for iOS than vice versa. Thanks for pointing that out.

More iOS users are leaving iOS for Android as the worldwide marketshare says so when Android gains so much marketshare every year.

Edited by Exynos, Feb 15 2014, 3:15pm :

Exynos said,
Haven't you heard that the more money someone have, the more stupid they gets?.

You must have a lot of money then. Stop confusing your own opinion with facts and statistics. The huge difference is you actually admitted to hating Apple which makes you a biased hater. I never said I hate android, after all my backup phone is a Nexus.

Exynos said,

...

People stopped buying Symbian and started buying Android and iOS instead. That's what happened to Symbian. But from what I see... people are still buying iOS. A lot. And I don't see that stopping anytime soon.

You keep saying "Apple market share is dropping like a rock" but do you know what market share is? Market share is the precentage of the market that a certian company or platform has sold during a particular time period.

It has nothing to do with INSTALLED BASE which is the number of units currently being used. That's the number that developers and accessory makers look at.

You started this whole discussion about relevancy resulting from market share... but would you agree that a 500 million iOS devices is enough to be relevant?

I have to go out for the day... we'll pick this up later. Stevan has also made some good remarks... read over his comments and we'll talk again.

stevan said,

You must have a lot of money then. Stop confusing your own opinion with facts and statistics. The huge difference is you actually admitted to hating Apple which makes you a biased hater. I never said I hate android, after all my backup phone is a Nexus.


Infact i don't. I have a descent amount of money. But thank you for calling me stupid. It makes the conversations with you very great to do.

Michael Scrip said,

People stopped buying Symbian and started buying Android and iOS instead. That's what happened to Symbian. But from what I see... people are still buying iOS. A lot. And I don't see that stopping anytime soon.

You keep saying "Apple market share is dropping like a rock" but do you know what market share is? Market share is the precentage of the market that a certian company or platform has sold during a particular time period.

It has nothing to do with INSTALLED BASE which is the number of units currently being used. That's the number that developers and accessory makers look at.

You started this whole discussion about relevancy resulting from market share... but would you agree that a 500 million iOS devices is enough to be relevant?

I have to go out for the day... we'll pick this up later. Stevan has also made some good remarks... read over his comments and we'll talk again.


No, when Symbian started to lose alot of users, they was going over to Windows Phone and iOS. Android was barely known at that time.

I was there my self and was watching all the drama that was going on, so i know how it went.

Sure, in some contries iOS is gaining some marketshare and in some conties iOS is losing tons of that. But for the most part, peoples cares about how popular Android or iOS is overall in the world. When they see alot of their friends have an Android phone, the chance is 99.9% sure that they will go over to Android instead of iOS. What your friends have have does have a big infuence on what others / you will choose.

How else do you think iOS got so popular in the beginning?

What do you think most peoples will think about iOS if iOS have 2% (an example) marketshare while Android have 90% (an example) marketshare in 2 years?

Edited by Exynos, Feb 15 2014, 3:39pm :

Exynos said,

Infact i don't. I have a descent amount of money. But thank you for calling me stupid. It makes the conversations with you very great to do.

The huge difference is you actually admitted to hating Apple which makes you a biased hater.

stevan said,
The huge difference is you actually admitted to hating Apple which makes you a biased hater.

And?

You are an Android hater.

Does that makes it any different?

Exynos said,

And?

You are an Android hater.

Does that makes it any different?

Stevan said,
I never said I hate android,

I feel sorry for you. Nothing you say can be taken seriously. Your blind hate towards a platform discredits you. Just look at how many people disagree with you.

stevan said,
I feel sorry for you. Nothing you say can be taken seriously. Your blind hate towards a platform discredits you. Just look at how many people disagree with you.

I'm not sure you are the right person to talk about who can be taken seriously or not as it have been proven that you can't discuss without backing up your arguments and are flat out lying to most peoples here. And the fact that you think your opinions are more important than what the facts is.

The persons who mixes opinions with the facts are peoples who doesn't know what the reality is.

Exynos said,

I'm not sure you are the right person to talk about who can be taken seriously or not as it have been proven that you can't discuss without backing up your arguments and are flat out lying to most peoples here. And the fact that you think your opinions are more important than what the facts is.

The persons who mixes opinions with the facts are peoples who doesn't know what the reality is.

I'm only arguing with you. And so are others.

You just said I hate android, which i stated nowhere. So that's your opinion, not a fact.
I stated you hate apple, which you stated. so that's a fact.

Want me to make you look stupid more?

stevan said,

I'm only arguing with you. And so are others.

You just said I hate android, which i stated nowhere. So that's your opinion, not a fact.
I stated you hate apple, which you stated. so that's a fact.

Want me to make you look stupid more?


Maybe you doesn't hate Android, but you goes completely nuts and goes completely into a defence mode to defend Apple no matter how much evidences we have against you propaganda. Witch makes you a total failure to discuss with.

As long as i can back up my arguments, i will give a flying f**k about how many hateboys that hates me or doesn't agree with me, because i know i'm right as i have the facts to back me up.

You don't have anything to back you up with. Or maybe your opinions are the facts?

Exynos said,

Maybe you doesn't hate Android, but you goes completely nuts and goes completely into a defence mode to defend Apple no matter how much evidences we have against you propaganda. Witch makes you a total failure to discuss with.

As long as i can back up my arguments, i will give a flying f**k about how many hateboys that hates me or doesn't agree with me, because i know i'm right as i have the facts to back me up.

You don't have anything to back you up with. Or maybe your opinions are the facts?

Hateboys? But you're the one that wrote this:

I hate Apple for several reasons...

So you are the hateboy and a troll and others are arguing against you.

stevan said,

Hateboys? But you're the one that wrote this:

So you are the hateboy and a troll and others are arguing against you.


LOL, you clearly don't see the difference between being hated by the hateboys for not agreeing with them and by hating a company because we have alot of reasons for doing it.

Those 2 things are not the same. But i'll guess you are not adult enough to realize this.


But how can anything you say Apple related be taken seriously? You are clearly biased. One has to just look up and see myself and others prove you wrong time after time.

I hate Apple for several reasons...

From now every time you post something against apple I will post this quote to show others you are biased...and then this one.

Maybe you doesn't hate Android

stevan said,
But how can anything you say Apple related be taken seriously? You are clearly biased. One has to just look up and see myself and others prove you wrong time after time.

From now every time you post something against apple I will post this quote to show others you are biased...and then this one.


Because what i'm saying it proven to be a fact. Just because you don't believe the facts that gets handed to you, it's not my fault and it's not my fault that you don't want to seperate facts from your opinions.

As for you, you haven't proved any of your arguments to be true. How do you expect anyone to believe you?

Exynos said,

Because what i'm saying it proven to be a fact. Just because you don't believe the facts that gets handed to you, it's not my fault and it's not my fault that you don't want to seperate facts from your opinions.

As for you, you haven't proved any of your arguments to be true. How do you expect anyone to believe you?

Because you are wrong all the time.

Exynos said,
After checking closer, you are right.

stevan said,
Because you are wrong all the time.

You can't even prove it that i'm wrong in 99.999% of the times.

Can you prove anything at all, really?

LOL.

Exynos said,

You can't even prove it that i'm wrong in 99.999% of the times.

Can you prove anything at all, really?

LOL.

Exynos said,
After checking closer, you are right.

stevan said,

Exynos said,
After checking closer, you are right.

Yeah, congrats?

You was right one time out of like 1 million?

That must be huge success for you, right?

Exynos said,

Yeah, congrats?

You was right one time out of like 1 million?

That must be huge success for you, right?

With the excitement surrounding Apple's move to 64-bit architecture, it makes a bit of sense that some Android users would jump ship. According to a recent poll, 21% of new iPhone users for the month of September had switched from Android. That's a respectable number, and also the highest move from Android to iOS ever.

If we keep this going I'm really gonna make you look stupid.

stevan said,
If we keep this going I'm really gonna make you look stupid.

Let me make this very clear for you. 21% increase in new iPhone users from Android will be around 0.0001% loss for Android as it have so many users.

You are completely blind by numbers and blind for the reality.

Or maybe we should continue to make you look even worser?

Exynos said,

Let me make this very clear for you. 21% increase in new iPhone users from Android will be around 0.0001% loss for Android as it have so many users.

You are completely blind by numbers and blind for the reality.

Or maybe we should continue to make you look even worser?

Your number are off. Take a math class. I just wanted to prove this wrong:

More iOS users are leaving iOS for Android as the worldwide marketshare says so when Android gains so much marketshare every year.

Which I just did. And I'm done arguing with idiots. Bye.

stevan said,

Your number are off. Take a math class. I just wanted to prove this wrong:

Which I just did. And I'm done arguing with idiots. Bye.


How many users worldwide does Android have and how many users does iOS have worldwide?

So a 21% gain for iOS from Android is taken as irrelevant for Android as the loss in numbers for Android is pretty much non-existent.

Lets say Android have 2000 users while iOS have 200 users. Now 50 peoples leaves Android to iOS. That's a 2.5% loss for Android while it's a 25% increase for iOS.

I hope you can do math as this is how simple it is to see that no one should be tricked by some stupid numbers.

I totally agree on this article. It's pretty crazy on how similar an iPod Touch are to an iPad.

Not only that, but the marketshare to iPads are dropping like a stone in an ocean today. iPads are going to end up in the same way as iPhones is now where they are barely relevant on a global basis. iPhones does have like 16-17% marketshare worldwide against Android who have like 78-80% marketshare worldwide.

Considering that Apple's main income is from iOS devices, they better not mess up things before it's to late. But for me and many others, it seems that Apple is stuck in the stoneage and are afraid to develop any further just because Apple have close to zero or zero balls to risk a little to move forward with new things in their mobile OS.

Just because iOS "works" as it is now, doesn't mean adding new things and develop the OS much further won't work much better.

If Apple doesn't make huge changes to iOS soon, it's still gonna lose marketshare every weeks until iPads is so small that it will be more and more irrelevant the smaller their marketshare gets.

So Apple better keep developing iOS more and more. Adding a theme like they did add in iOS 7 over iOS 6 isn't considered a development that goes forward.

Apple is playing a risky game now when they lose so much iPhone / iPad marketshare every weeks / months that goes now.

Edited by Exynos, Feb 13 2014, 1:01pm :

All of that to say that you wish it could split screen? Really? That hardly makes a device 'stuck in the past'. It just means it's done differently. Buyers will make the choice of which they prefer, you don't need to worry yourself about it at all.

Love it when nerds post flame bate articles and they have no credentials other than being given an account on a website to write trash.

Pens, pencils and paper, they are all the same and will be for years to come.

You don't reinvent what works, its a tool like any other. What embarrasses me are people who constantly think that change means something better, that they know what is best. If you are so smart, start your own company and build your own better tablet, better OS and have millions of people want to buy it, no excuse not to, it can be done.

No one gives a damn about "Real Multitasking" the don't care what that term is. I don't give a crap if it "Truly Runs In The Background" I care about my battery life.

Nerds go home, the rest of us are busy with our lives, families and living than worrying about such stupid things, reality called it wants its rent money.

still outselling other tablets. if consumers aren't fleeing to other devices no reason to make radical changes

most of the larger android tablets above 7 inches are complete crap.
windows tablets can possibly take advantage but they need a stronger push from developers.

I love my iPad, but no doubt: it is no replacement for my laptop. If I'm just kicking back reading stuff/watching stuff, iPad is great. Anything more than that (even posting on web sites), I tend to go for my laptop.

What I have seen from Android and Windows tablets haven't convinced me that I'd be better off switching. However, I am strongly considering Windows as my next tablet... I wanna see where Lenovo takes their Win tabs. I love Lenovo.

Apple tends to say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.". They probably don't want to alienate users that are used to the interface, and will only introduce the feature when they can make it brain dead simple.

Okay, right up front, I hate Apple and I hate iOS. But if their OS is so antiquated, why do people STILL throw themselves at the iPads like a prostitute at the Olympics? You can complain about their system all you want (I certainly do), but the bottom line is that it apparently doesn't bother the insane number of lemmings who buy them day after day after day.

Robert Wade said,
Okay, right up front, I hate Apple and I hate iOS. But if their OS is so antiquated, why do people STILL throw themselves at the iPads like a prostitute at the Olympics? You can complain about their system all you want (I certainly do), but the bottom line is that it apparently doesn't bother the insane number of lemmings who buy them day after day after day.

Thin, light, amazing battery life and very easy to use. Plus an ecosystem 2nd to none. Basically the most important characteristics of today's tablets.

VHMP01 said,
That's your opinión, mine if that a Tablet needs to solve work problems, not just play!

Awesome, the great thing is there are tons of tablets from different manufacturers out there so I'm sure you will find one that you like.

stevan said,

Thin, light, amazing battery life and very easy to use. Plus an ecosystem 2nd to none. Basically the most important characteristics of today's tablets.

Not anymore!

stevan said,

Awesome, the great thing is there are tons of tablets from different manufacturers out there so I'm sure you will find one that you like.

Exactly, and that is why APple no longer has an 75% tablet marketshare because that is what people are doing.

That is wh Apple rushed to make a 7" tablet, though you wont admit to it. That si why Apple went back to making a plastic phone, That is why Apple is rushing to make a bigger iPhone.

Because all 3 times and then some they were WRONG WRONG WRONG. Selling a lot to something doesn't mean you are right. It just means they had better marketing and being first.

Apple needs to rush to be first to make as much money as they can, because they know they will end up not being first.

Look at the facts. Apple's Mac dominance lasted 5 years before Microsoft came.
iPhone reign last 1 year.
The iPad so far has lasted 4 years. But things have changed, everything except Apple.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Exactly, and that is why APple no longer has an 75% tablet marketshare because that is what people are doing.

That is wh Apple rushed to make a 7" tablet, though you wont admit to it. That si why Apple went back to making a plastic phone, That is why Apple is rushing to make a bigger iPhone.

Because all 3 times and then some they were WRONG WRONG WRONG. Selling a lot to something doesn't mean you are right. It just means they had better marketing and being first.

Apple needs to rush to be first to make as much money as they can, because they know they will end up not being first.

Look at the facts. Apple's Mac dominance lasted 5 years before Microsoft came.
iPhone reign last 1 year.
The iPad so far has lasted 4 years. But things have changed, everything except Apple.

Completely wrong.

rr_dRock said,

Care to elaborate?

Do you actually want me to argue with someone who wrote this:

A company with 500 employees is considered a Fortune 500 company.

He also claimed that to make a smaller screen (iPad Mini) you simply shrink bigger screens (iPad).

From now on I will simply point out that he's wrong, because even if I explain it, he won't get it.

stevan said,

Completely wrong.

Really? Really? SHOW ME THEN. Just saying I am wrong with no links to back you up is so lame.

AM I wrong? Let's See!

Then I guess FORBES is a liar - http://www.forbes.com/sites/th...really-built-the-ipad-mini/

Dude give it up. Apple bashed 7" tablets Steve Jobs said in his own mouth - http://techland.time.com/2010/...erry-google-7-inch-tablets/

Steve Jobs dissing 7" Tablets. In his words he said 7" tablets would not be able to compete against the 10" iPad. Yet Samsung sold a lot of the 7" Galaxy Tab as did Amazon of their 7" Kindle.

So which one of us is wrong YET AGAIN?

See I have facts to back up what I say. Please call Steve Forbes and call him a liar.

stevan said,

Do you actually want me to argue with someone who wrote this:

He also claimed that to make a smaller screen (iPad Mini) you simply shrink bigger screens (iPad).

From now on I will simply point out that he's wrong, because even if I explain it, he won't get it.

First off I know what a Fortune 500 company is. I know they are ranking based on lots of factors. I mention 500 employees for a specific reason. If you look at the list of Fortune 500 company's, none have less than 500 employees. The employee numbers matter for several reason. However I was born in 69, and when a company was referred to by Fortune 100 or 500, it was based on how many employees they have.

Just like he term "PC" is no longer just a desktop metaphor. Words now simply have extended meanings.

You must be very young?
Next? Again, if you claim someone is wrong and you don't provide a basis for why they are, then you point is simply moot. This is the 4th time you said my post was wrong, yet I gave you links to back up my facts. How many did you give? NONE.

Back to article and what I said. Jobs said, OEM would drop the 7" tablet form factor basically by saying, they made the 10" standard and that anything less was simply inferior. Those are not exact words, it what he said in context. I gave you a link to what he said.

How many times has Steve Jobs been wrong? Let me name them - Steve Jobs thought the Mac was selling like hotcakes. Yet when empoyees showed him inventory of macs just sitting on the shelves not being sold in the millions, Steve ignored it. While PC sales were already 5x's as much 5 years later.

Steve Jobs was wrong about 7" tablets. Now they have one.
Steve Jobs was wrong about 4"+ smartphones, now they have one.
Steve Jobs is by all intensive purpose Apple, and when Steve Jobs is Wrong, so is Apple. Thus you hanging on their every word makes you equally wrong.
Steve Jobs has been wrong lots of times. He is a human Stevan, he cant be right all the time and neither can you.

Please seen Forbes a letter telling him about how wrong he was about why Apple was selling 7" iPad. The thing Steve Jobs said Apple would never do. Why? BEcause you would have to saw off your fingers to use one. Why don't people have to saw off their fingers to use little itty bitty iPhones? Hmmm. Such contradiction in his own statements?

Yeah...no one will buy those hummer phones that now make up 50%+ of the smartphones sold today.

Apple's version of the Galaxy S 5? - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...handset-posted-Twitter.html /sarcasm

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,

First off I know what a Fortune 500 company is. I know they are ranking based on lots of factors. I mention 500 employees for a specific reason. If you look at the list of Fortune 500 company's, none have less than 500 employees. The employee numbers matter for several reason. However I was born in 69, and when a company was referred to by Fortune 100 or 500, it was based on how many employees they have.

Just like he term "PC" is no longer just a desktop metaphor. Words now simply have extended meanings.

You must be very young?
Next? Again, if you claim someone is wrong and you don't provide a basis for why they are, then you point is simply moot. This is the 4th time you said my post was wrong, yet I gave you links to back up my facts. How many did you give? NONE.

Back to article and what I said. Jobs said, OEM would drop the 7" tablet form factor basically by saying, they made the 10" standard and that anything less was simply inferior. Those are not exact words, it what he said in context. I gave you a link to what he said.

How many times has Steve Jobs been wrong? Let me name them - Steve Jobs thought the Mac was selling like hotcakes. Yet when empoyees showed him inventory of macs just sitting on the shelves not being sold in the millions, Steve ignored it. While PC sales were already 5x's as much 5 years later.

Steve Jobs was wrong about 7" tablets. Now they have one.
Steve Jobs was wrong about 4"+ smartphones, now they have one.
Steve Jobs is by all intensive purpose Apple, and when Steve Jobs is Wrong, so is Apple. Thus you hanging on their every word makes you equally wrong.
Steve Jobs has been wrong lots of times. He is a human Stevan, he cant be right all the time and neither can you.

Please seen Forbes a letter telling him about how wrong he was about why Apple was selling 7" iPad. The thing Steve Jobs said Apple would never do. Why? BEcause you would have to saw off your fingers to use one. Why don't people have to saw off their fingers to use little itty bitty iPhones? Hmmm. Such contradiction in his own statements?

Yeah...no one will buy those hummer phones that now make up 50%+ of the smartphones sold today.

Apple's version of the Galaxy S 5? - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...handset-posted-Twitter.html /sarcasm

Completely wrong. Go get educated.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,

First off I know what a Fortune 500 company is. I know they are ranking based on lots of factors. I mention 500 employees for a specific reason. If you look at the list of Fortune 500 company's, none have less than 500 employees. The employee numbers matter for several reason. However I was born in 69, and when a company was referred to by Fortune 100 or 500, it was based on how many employees they have.

First fortune list was published in 1955. It has ALWAYS been about biggest companies and not ones with X amount of employees. Just wanted to show everyone how uneducated you are. The rest is just gibberish. Wrong as usual.

stevan said,

Completely wrong. Go get educated.


LOL and that comes from the guy with no evidences to claim you are right.

Maybe it's YOU that needs to get educated, because when you don't even want to believe the hard facts that gets delivered to you, then i'm not sure what will convince you. Maybe a 'taking off your Apple glasses' school will help you with that?

Exynos said,

LOL and that comes from the guy with no evidences to claim you are right.

Maybe it's YOU that needs to get educated, because when you don't even want to believe the hard facts that gets delivered to you, then i'm not sure what will convince you. Maybe a 'taking off your Apple glasses' school will help you with that?

Go troll elsewhere please, I actually like this forum.

stevan said,

Go troll elsewhere please, I actually like this forum.


I like it here to when peoples with empty arguments starts to cry because someone proves you wrong.

Exynos said,

I like it here to when peoples with empty arguments starts to cry because someone proves you wrong.

Is that why you and TechieXP are labelled as trolls?

Hahahahahahahahahah

Exynos said,

I like it here to when peoples with empty arguments starts to cry because someone proves you wrong.

Reported you for trolling.

stevan said,

Is that why you and TechieXP are labelled as trolls?

Hahahahahahahahahah

No one has ever called me a troll but you.
I'm better than you because as per usual, you cant debate facts and result to the only thing you fanbois can do, call names.

If that is the best comeback you can have, its best to not comment on my posts.
If the only thing you can do is call names, then its best we don't talk.
I don't like being in the company of pathetic losers whose only retort is acting like a spoiled child who didn't get his way.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
No one has ever called me a troll but you.
I'm better than you because as per usual, you cant debate facts and result to the only thing you fanbois can do, call names.

If that is the best comeback you can have, its best to not comment on my posts.
If the only thing you can do is call names, then its best we don't talk.
I don't like being in the company of pathetic losers whose only retort is acting like a spoiled child who didn't get his way.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
A company with 500 employees is considered a Fortune 500 company.

iOS simply CAN'T do real multitasking (look it up). That is why you can't have two apps open at once on your iPad despite screen size.

What was even the point of this article, to start a flame war? iOS and the iPad have been around a long time, what's the point of this kind of article now? I've owned Android and iOS devices (and a Windows phone for a while) and the newest iPads have the best hardware and software combination in my opinion, not mention the best app selection. iOS multitasks, just not side by side. I run multiple apps at a time and when I want to switch I double tap the home button and switch to the app I need. What's the big deal?

patseguin said,
What was even the point of this article, to start a flame war? iOS and the iPad have been around a long time, what's the point of this kind of article now? I've owned Android and iOS devices (and a Windows phone for a while) and the newest iPads have the best hardware and software combination in my opinion, not mention the best app selection. iOS multitasks, just not side by side. I run multiple apps at a time and when I want to switch I double tap the home button and switch to the app I need. What's the big deal?

Stopping and suspending an app is WORLDS different than true multitasking where each app gets its own memory resources and continues to run in the background. Apple has made great strides to create this illusion of multitasking but it most certainly is not.

patseguin said,
What was even the point of this article, to start a flame war? iOS and the iPad have been around a long time, what's the point of this kind of article now? I've owned Android and iOS devices (and a Windows phone for a while) and the newest iPads have the best hardware and software combination in my opinion, not mention the best app selection. iOS multitasks, just not side by side. I run multiple apps at a time and when I want to switch I double tap the home button and switch to the app I need. What's the big deal?

The point Is this. Microsoft sat on the fact Windows Mobile was the top selling mobile platform since 2002. But them RIM came out of nowhere and killed them off almost totally. Then Apple came and Google. Microsoft's way back in was the fact Android made RIM and Nokia fall quickly from grace and made their markets small enough for apple to beat them. Nokia and RIM nothing were selling 100M phones almost every year. Even iPhone didn't dethrone them alone.

Android brought them down and where are they now? RIM is gone, WebOS never stood a chance. MS is crawling back. Symbian is going fast.

You all claim Android is just a copy of iOS, like you claim Windows was of Mac OS. Well if they are just copies, why are they doing so much better?

How did Samsung sell 313M smartphone in 2013 while Apple only sold 150M?
Why are their 2Billion people using Windows, and only 170M using Mac OS X?
Why is their 1.2B people using Android and only 600M using iOS? Especially since iOS was first to market?

Apple doesn't 'keep up with industry trends' Apple moves at their own pace doing their own thing and they do it very successfully.

derekaw said,
Apple doesn't 'keep up with industry trends' Apple moves at their own pace doing their own thing and they do it very successfully.
Yep. But it doesn't change the fact being spoken above, does it.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Yep. But it doesn't change the fact being spoken above, does it.

What fact? Do you know what an editorial is?

stevan said,

What fact? Do you know what an editorial is?

So an opinion can't be based on facts?

Here I have an opinion. You are totally biased in your cheerleading for Apple. Now that is my opinion based on what? Did I make up my opinion? Or is my opinion based on the "fact" that no matter what someone says about Apple you rush to defend them?

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
So an opinion can't be based on facts?

Here I have an opinion. You are totally biased in your cheerleading for Apple. Now that is my opinion based on what? Did I make up my opinion? Or is my opinion based on the "fact" that no matter what someone says about Apple you rush to defend them?

Look around and see exactly who I'm so called "defending Apple" against? Should open up your eyes.

Oh, and there's a huge difference between defending a company and attacking it. Unlike you, I don't go attacking Microsoft, Google or Sony in threads related to them.

It's why people don't call me a troll.

@Hi_XPecTa_Chens - Yep. But it doesn't change the fact being spoken above, does it.

I think that Apple has a very clear vision and direction about the iPad, its theirs, they own it and they are sticking with it no matter what anyone else does. Understand that the iPad was in development for years before it was released which puts Apple years ahead of the competition and with a very good view of the future.

If you need other features that the iPad does not have then you have lots of other options.

I am sure that Apple is very happy with the tablet business that they created.

As an almost exclusive Apple user at home, I... have to agree here. The tables have kind of turned. The iPad led the way with iOS and it was a very powerful combo a few years ago, and people often pointed fingers on the Android tablets at the time, and how they were truly just "big phones" while the iPad had carefully designed apps for it. However, iOS 7 for iPad was a much greater disappointment than iOS 7 for iPhone and I do believe the OS is holding back the apps a bit, while Android is pushing forward.

I haven't looked into KitKat too much but I'm not surprised in the slightest if it's a stronger tablet release than iOS 7.

I can't speak for Windows RT tablets but Android ones I have had have always had such terrible hardware and many apps were bad too because they were designed for phone size screens. Despite not being able to run two apps at once, I am perfectly fine with my iPad 90% of the time.

Making applications run side by side cannot be an afterthought, it must be part of the overall design. From the start Microsoft put specs and standards on all Metro app development to have all apps be pixel independent, and readjust themselves in docked mode and side by side mode. You can't just enable after the fact an OS feature to allow two apps in the same screen and expect they will both look right and be operable.
Is all part of the approach: Apple up-scaled a phone OS into a tablet while Microsoft down-scaled a desktop OS into a tablet. A tablet is more like a PC than a phone and that's why this is the best approach.

iOS 7 is still behind Android 4.4 Kit. Android 4 Kit Kit, which runs well on the Google Nexus 7 is better than the iPad mini. So, forget the iPad. Android 4.4 has multi profiles, widgets that iOS does not have

Davin Peterson said,
iOS 7 is still behind Android 4.4 Kit. Android 4 Kit Kit, which runs well on the Google Nexus 7 is better than the iPad mini. So, forget the iPad. Android 4.4 has multi profiles, widgets that iOS does not have
Its still behind Jelly Bean, Even ICS. I would even say Froyo on some point.

Dot Matrix said,
Yet, Apple continually mocks Microsoft for being "lost".

Microsoft themselves admitted to confusing customers lol

JHBrown said,
Comparing the sales of the iPad to the sales of the Surface, they are lost.

How is a matter of sales matter in this regard? It doesn't change the fact that iOS is still last decade's OS.

Dot Matrix said,

How is a matter of sales matter in this regard? It doesn't change the fact that iOS is still last decade's OS.

From an editorial (opinion) to a fact so fast? Hahahahahahahaha

Dot Matrix said,
How is a matter of sales matter in this regard?

What else is left when defending Apple? I bet the same people complained about MS products all the time and didn't care about sales.

stevan said,
From an editorial (opinion) to a fact so fast? Hahahahahahahaha

It hasn't significantly changed since it's launch and that was for phones.

stevan said,

From an editorial (opinion) to a fact so fast? Hahahahahahahaha


Well, whatever you want to call it, it doesn't change, yes the fact, that iOS has poor multitasking capabilities than its competitors do.

dr_crabman said,

What else is left when defending Apple? I bet the same people complained about MS products all the time and didn't care about sales.

It hasn't significantly changed since it's launch and that was for phones.

How else do you measure the success of a company if not for it's sales and profits? Seriously, I'd like someone to come up with some other form of measurement. The point if EVERY SINGLE COMPANY out there is to generate profits and sales. Perhaps some people here need to take some economics classes.

And I completely disagree with these facts about the iOS. As I stated before, they got features that are missing or that I would like but that doesn't mean it's not an improvement over previous operating systems. It's all opinions, not facts. People defending Apple usually don't state opinions as lies. Yes, they may state sales numbers more often, but sales don't lie.

Dot Matrix said,
Yet, Apple continually mocks Microsoft for being "lost".

Judging by the sales numbers the iPad is doing just fine. Customers like simple, honestly I think the iPad for most users is easier to use.

Do own an iOS or Android Device?

Dot Matrix said,

Well, whatever you want to call it, it doesn't change, yes the fact, that iOS has poor multitasking capabilities than its competitors do.

And that makes it a fact that it's last decades os? I didn't know OS are defined by decades and multitasking?

Seriously dude, try harder...

warwagon said,

Judging by the sales numbers the iPad is doing just fine. Customers like simple, honestly I think the iPad for most users is easier to use.

Do own an iOS or Android Device?

I borrowed a friends iPhone a while back after I had lost my previous phone to an unfortunate accident. I used it for about a week before I wanted to throw it against the wall. I gave it back to him and then bit the bullet, and bought what would be my first smartphone - an HTC Surround. I have never used Android, I've seen far too many friends praise their phone one second, then toss is out the next, or have to constantly order refurbished phones after theirs continually break. I also don't care for the complexity of the OS.

Dot Matrix said,

I borrowed a friends iPhone a while back after I had lost my previous phone to an unfortunate accident. I used it for about a week before I wanted to throw it against the wall. I gave it back to him and then bit the bullet, and bought what would be my first smartphone - an HTC Surround. I have never used Android, I've seen far too many friends praise their phone one second, then toss is out the next, or have to constantly order refurbished phones after theirs continually break. I also don't care for the complexity of the OS.

I own a

Nexus 7 1st Gen

SIII Phone

iPad 2

2 iPod Nano 4th Gens

Had an iPod Touch 4th (until it got washed)

Acer W500 (Windows 8 Tablet)

HP Touchpad 32GB but I put Android on it and gave it to my mom She still uses it.

To be honest out of all the tablets I have, my iPad gets the most use.

All that being said I would like to add a That Dell 8 inch Win 8.1 Pro tablet to my collection.

stevan said,

And that makes it a fact that it's last decades os? I didn't know OS are defined by decades and multitasking?

Seriously dude, try harder...

iOS has hardly changed since being released in 2007. That's why.

warwagon said,

I own a

Nexus 7 1st Gen

SIII Phone

iPad 2

2 iPod Nano 4th Gens

Had an iPod Touch 4th (until it got washed)

Acer W500 (Windows 8 Tablet)

HP Touchpad 32GB but I put Android on it and gave it to my mom She still uses it.

To be honest out of all the tablets I have, my iPad gets the most use.

All that being said I would like to add a That Dell 8 inch Win 8.1 Pro tablet to my collection.

After using my Surface, I find it very hard to use anything else.

Dot Matrix said,

iOS has hardly changed since being released in 2007. That's why.

Again, just an opinion. I think windows hasn't changed since XP but that just my opinion. Should know the difference between opinion and fact.

In fact iOS has changed A LOT since the first version. Every new version added new features. That's what a change is...

Dot Matrix said,

iOS has hardly changed since being released in 2007. That's why.

I'm curious to know why everything must change. It works for tens of millions and is very good at what it does. This reminds me of Microsofts must change attitude with Windows 8. Look how well that turned out!

stevan said,

How else do you measure the success of a company if not for it's sales and profits? Seriously, I'd like someone to come up with some other form of measurement. The point if EVERY SINGLE COMPANY out there is to generate profits and sales. Perhaps some people here need to take some economics classes.

And I completely disagree with these facts about the iOS. As I stated before, they got features that are missing or that I would like but that doesn't mean it's not an improvement over previous operating systems. It's all opinions, not facts. People defending Apple usually don't state opinions as lies. Yes, they may state sales numbers more often, but sales don't lie.

Because being able to successfully sell crap doesn't mean its the best.

Again let me ask you and you havent answered. McDonald's sells more hamburgers than all the hamburger joints on the planet combined. Does that mean it is the world best hamburger.

Having the "worlds best selling product" is not equal to "having the worlds best product".

This is where you Apple-biased logic fails.
You are all the same people who say, OS X is so much better than Windows, and when we throw Windows sales numbers at you and market-share, you say that isn't an argument. SO WHY ARE YOU USING IT?

Windows has proven itself to be the best OS period. That is why it is attacked so much. The fact it has stood up with 90% for so long even with it constant attacks by haters shows it is the "worlds best product". However, even though the Toyota Camry is the best selling car in the USA right now, is it better than a Mercedes C Class? NO. comparing the 2, the Mercedes would be the worlds best car, but it doesn't sell like one.

Where you fail in logic is you consider sales numbers as a determining factor and it simply isn't. It isn't the end all.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Because being able to successfully sell crap doesn't mean its the best.

Again let me ask you and you havent answered. McDonald's sells more hamburgers than all the hamburger joints on the planet combined. Does that mean it is the world best hamburger.

Having the "worlds best selling product" is not equal to "having the worlds best product".

This is where you Apple-biased logic fails.
You are all the same people who say, OS X is so much better than Windows, and when we throw Windows sales numbers at you and market-share, you say that isn't an argument. SO WHY ARE YOU USING IT?

Windows has proven itself to be the best OS period. That is why it is attacked so much. The fact it has stood up with 90% for so long even with it constant attacks by haters shows it is the "worlds best product". However, even though the Toyota Camry is the best selling car in the USA right now, is it better than a Mercedes C Class? NO. comparing the 2, the Mercedes would be the worlds best car, but it doesn't sell like one.

Where you fail in logic is you consider sales numbers as a determining factor and it simply isn't. It isn't the end all.

Haha this is why I think you're not very smart. I never said iPhone or iPads are the best. Actually, I don't see many people here saying it either.

stevan said,

And that makes it a fact that it's last decades os? I didn't know OS are defined by decades and multitasking?

Seriously dude, try harder...

They are...amongst other things. After all it is a computer, why isn't it multi-tasking?

stevan said,

Haha this is why I think you're not very smart. I never said iPhone or iPads are the best. Actually, I don't see many people here saying it either.

I never said you said they were the "best" by using the word "best".

You eluded to them being the best because of sales numbers. After all in your mind, and outloud you said, it sells better than the others.

So as you say, it si better simply because it does something I like better. It sells better and it has better battery-life. So for YOU its the best. Great. I don't argue preferences. We all have a right to like what we like.

What I pin you down constantly for is simple. Because YOU think something is the best for YOU, then its simply the best an it is not the case.

As I stated and you can't debate, sells numbers don't denote how good or bad a product is. Bad products can sell in the Billions. After all you all claim Windows is terrible. RIGHT?!

Yes APple is selling a lot of them. People get use to something they just keep buying it. But seeing how others are also selling in huge numbers and gaining on Apple, hey need to do something.

Here again let me give you examples since I can ALWAYS prove my opinions with facts.

Apple bashed 7" tablet claimimg the iPad withits 4:3 aspect ration was better. Jobs said all the other OEM's would drop 7" models for 10" ones. But what happened? Apple saw the Kindle HD and other tablets like the 7/; Galaxy Tab was having huge sales. So they made one.

Apple based lage phones calling them "hummers" and saying no one would buy them. Yet sales numbers show that after 2009 when 4.3" phones were the norm, that in 2010, 25% of the smartphones being sold were above 4". Now that number is past 50% How do we know? Because Samsung sold 313M smartphones last year, Apple sold 150M of them last year. The Galaxy S 4 sold 70M by itself. The GS3 was still selling. The Note 3 sold almost double what the Note 2 sold. Already 50% of Samsungs own phones are above the 1/2 way point. Then you add Sony, Moto, and others and boom.
No what rumors are we seeing? Apple is making a bigger iPhone. Oh and the leaked picture? Looks loos like a Galaxy S 4 made of metal. Even the curve on the edges are the same. Maybe Samsung will sue Apple now?

So I am not smart? Really? Well it seems I understand what you said better than you did and you made the statement. You eluded to the fact about iPad sales. For you and all the fans, Sales define how great a product is, After all, if it outsells everyone else's it must be the best. Right? Please tell me that sint what you were implying.

See you aren't very smart. Because I never said, you said they were the "best" in using the word "best". You did say it in "other words".

I man after all, the Toyota Camry is the "world's best selling car". Since Toyota can sell millions of them in a year, it must be the "best" car...right?

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
I never said you said they were the "best" by using the word "best".

You eluded to them being the best because of sales numbers. After all in your mind, and outloud you said, it sells better than the others.

So as you say, it si better simply because it does something I like better. It sells better and it has better battery-life. So for YOU its the best. Great. I don't argue preferences. We all have a right to like what we like.

What I pin you down constantly for is simple. Because YOU think something is the best for YOU, then its simply the best an it is not the case.

As I stated and you can't debate, sells numbers don't denote how good or bad a product is. Bad products can sell in the Billions. After all you all claim Windows is terrible. RIGHT?!

Yes APple is selling a lot of them. People get use to something they just keep buying it. But seeing how others are also selling in huge numbers and gaining on Apple, hey need to do something.

Here again let me give you examples since I can ALWAYS prove my opinions with facts.

Apple bashed 7" tablet claimimg the iPad withits 4:3 aspect ration was better. Jobs said all the other OEM's would drop 7" models for 10" ones. But what happened? Apple saw the Kindle HD and other tablets like the 7/; Galaxy Tab was having huge sales. So they made one.

Apple based lage phones calling them "hummers" and saying no one would buy them. Yet sales numbers show that after 2009 when 4.3" phones were the norm, that in 2010, 25% of the smartphones being sold were above 4". Now that number is past 50% How do we know? Because Samsung sold 313M smartphones last year, Apple sold 150M of them last year. The Galaxy S 4 sold 70M by itself. The GS3 was still selling. The Note 3 sold almost double what the Note 2 sold. Already 50% of Samsungs own phones are above the 1/2 way point. Then you add Sony, Moto, and others and boom.

No what rumors are we seeing? Apple is making a bigger iPhone. Oh and the leaked picture? Looks loos like a Galaxy S 4 made of metal. Even the curve on the edges are the same. Maybe Samsung will sue Apple now?

Completely wrong.

I love the people that respond to a well detailed argument with "You're Wrong" and no explanation as to why.

I'm guessing after the last comment, they're just sitting behind their desk "Woohoo, I said he was wrong, I win!"

ahahahahahahahahaha. This is why I love Apple vs Anything discussions, someone comes in with a logical argument and the other (Android, Apple, WP, Linux, w/e) just says "NO YOU'RE WRONG" and feels proud.

It's almost like religion debates, no matter what you're never going to agree, so just burn the others house down and make it a day.

I have a surface pro, and Asus Memo, and an iPad air. I couldn't agree more. Using the ipad is like stepping back in time compared to android, and using android is like using a toy compared to windows. Yes apple dominate the big tablet segment but you can attribute that to their early entry and not to the quality of their software. I will admit the ipad hardware is very nice and if MSFT must copy something about apple, copy that, and not the software.

neonspark said,
I have a surface pro, and Asus Memo, and an iPad air. I couldn't agree more. Using the ipad is like stepping back in time compared to android, and using android is like using a toy compared to windows. Yes apple dominate the big tablet segment but you can attribute that to their early entry and not to the quality of their software. I will admit the ipad hardware is very nice and if MSFT must copy something about apple, copy that, and not the software.

I'd say the opposite. Copy the software. Apps and games are all an integral part of software. And it's the segment where Apple is absolutely dominating.

stevan said,

I'd say the opposite. Copy the software. Apps and games are all an integral part of software. And it's the segment where Apple is absolutely dominating.

But that isn't Apple...those are developers, who MS is trying to get on board

stevan said,

I'd say the opposite. Copy the software. Apps and games are all an integral part of software. And it's the segment where Apple is absolutely dominating.

Again, in your rush to defend Apple, you missed his total point. We don't care if Apple sells more apps or more pads. the point is, the device is behind everyone else. That reason you all don't care is you been so brainwashed into not carry.

You rather care about things that don't matter. The reason the iPad last so long, is because no one is going to play a movie for 6 hours, no one is going to play Angry Birds for 6 hours. Some people have lives outside of entertainment. What about us who work? The tablet is suppose to be a device that can handle lots of tasks without needing a full PC. The iPad simply is not this. Samsung's S-Pen apps for example, do more productivity in their limited form, than any application you can get on the Ipad. The reason Apple sells so many apps, isn't their apps that are selling. It's the devs who are making apps to give iPad functions it should have already and people must buy them because if they don't they wont have the function.
iWorks Mobile is so lame, Apple started giving it away. It isn't even worth buying.
If you wanted Mobile Office on Windows Mobile you had to buy it. Now MS gives it away on Mobile. Why? To attract buyers like Apple is doing.
On the Note for example, it dos do much that I don't had to download specific apps for things like banking. Everything else is already their.

stevan said,

I'd say the opposite. Copy the software. Apps and games are all an integral part of software. And it's the segment where Apple is absolutely dominating.

Arguing peoples opinion again? What he said is true. Again because you cant think outside the box.

Here let me help you. On the iPad, you are FORCED to use one app at a time and do most of the changes with one button. This vs the Surface, which at least allows 2 apps on screen at the same time and you aren't forced to use one button. You can use a full keyboard and a mouse and the stylus in addition to your finger for input. The Note takes it even further by giving you all the Surface as plus apps that actually do a few extra things. Once you use those 2 and go back to an iPad, it just seems like a lame duck.

Again, you above posts want to equate sales numbers as a bar that every one else has to meet. Then is OS X is so great, why hasn't it had the same sales success as Windows. Even though Linux is FREE how come it doesn't enjoy the same success as OS X or Windows?

There is no one single model tablet that beats the iPad sales. SO. They dont have to. iPAd is an option, not the only option. After all, if other options wasn selling, APple would still have 80% marketshare with the iPad. Last I checked, they don't.

Here is the difference tho. If Apple doesn't sell enough ipad's or iPhones they have to hold them up. MS, Google and Samsung is they don't sell a mobile device, they are still going to make BILLIONS of dollars. These mobile devices are just side projects for quick and easy money.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Arguing peoples opinion again? What he said is true. Again because you cant think outside the box.

Here let me help you. On the iPad, you are FORCED to use one app at a time and do most of the changes with one button. This vs the Surface, which at least allows 2 apps on screen at the same time and you aren't forced to use one button. You can use a full keyboard and a mouse and the stylus in addition to your finger for input. The Note takes it even further by giving you all the Surface as plus apps that actually do a few extra things. Once you use those 2 and go back to an iPad, it just seems like a lame duck.

Again, you above posts want to equate sales numbers as a bar that every one else has to meet. Then is OS X is so great, why hasn't it had the same sales success as Windows. Even though Linux is FREE how come it doesn't enjoy the same success as OS X or Windows?

There is no one single model tablet that beats the iPad sales. SO. They dont have to. iPAd is an option, not the only option. After all, if other options wasn selling, APple would still have 80% marketshare with the iPad. Last I checked, they don't.

Here is the difference tho. If Apple doesn't sell enough ipad's or iPhones they have to hold them up. MS, Google and Samsung is they don't sell a mobile device, they are still going to make BILLIONS of dollars. These mobile devices are just side projects for quick and easy money.

You replied to the same post twice. iPhone is alone worth than Microsoft. Then there's iTunes, iPads and macs. Next year they will sell even more of them and make more money, without having to announce their flagship phone earlier due to weak sales, like Samesung

stevan said,

You replied to the same post twice. iPhone is alone worth than Microsoft. Then there's iTunes, iPads and macs. Next year they will sell even more of them and make more money, without having to announce their flagship phone earlier due to weak sales, like Samesung

Samsung isn't announcing the Galaxy S 5 early. The GS4 was officially announced in Mar of last year. The place where they had it was NY. THis time they are announcing it at a show that jut happens to be in Feb. What event is happening in March where they could announce the next phone.

Who are you to say they are early? Oh I know, the RUMORS. Haha. So I guess Apple was late with the iPhone 4S, which was released past the yearly typical iPhone cycle?

The last time I checked, not all products are always released exactly every 12 months.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Samsung isn't announcing the Galaxy S 5 early. The GS4 was officially announced in Mar of last year. The place where they had it was NY. THis time they are announcing it at a show that jut happens to be in Feb. What event is happening in March where they could announce the next phone.

Who are you to say they are early? Oh I know, the RUMORS. Haha. So I guess Apple was late with the iPhone 4S, which was released past the yearly typical iPhone cycle?

The last time I checked, not all products are always released exactly every 12 months.

They're releasing it early bc S4 sales have tanked. Remember, it's the phone you bet would outsell the 5S. Guess what else that new galaxy has: the fingerprint sensor IN the home button.........

How is the iPad closer to a notebook than an iPod? It is EXACTLY an iPod with a larger screen. Nothing more and nothing less. The whole point of the iWhatever products is the software and with that the products as a whole are falling behind the times rather quickly. iOS 7 really is not much more in the real world than a new skin/look.

Apple was very good at selling average hardware as if it's the next coming. The last two years all they have been able to do is to twist and misrepresent numbers to make it look they still are selling this. Fact is the current hardware is following the high end trends and not setting them. CPU power gained with new hardware gets lost in the pheripheral hardware needing more of it so what's left for the user is basically the same as before.

All that needs to happen is the crowds at a large to figure it out and Apple is done. They do not have Steve Jobs waiting in the wings any more to save them and they are sliding down the same slope they were when they almost went under, Microsoft had to save them and Jobs put them back on track.

Despite having a healthy dislike of Google that company is way more innovative and pushing the boundaries these days. Microsoft _will_ catch up with and overtake Apple within the next three years.

paulheu said,
How is the iPad closer to a notebook than an iPod? It is EXACTLY an iPod with a larger screen. Nothing more and nothing less. The whole point of the iWhatever products is the software and with that the products as a whole are falling behind the times rather quickly. iOS 7 really is not much more in the real world than a new skin/look.

Apple was very good at selling average hardware as if it's the next coming. The last two years all they have been able to do is to twist and misrepresent numbers to make it look they still are selling this. Fact is the current hardware is following the high end trends and not setting them. CPU power gained with new hardware gets lost in the pheripheral hardware needing more of it so what's left for the user is basically the same as before.

All that needs to happen is the crowds at a large to figure it out and Apple is done. They do not have Steve Jobs waiting in the wings any more to save them and they are sliding down the same slope they were when they almost went under, Microsoft had to save them and Jobs put them back on track.

Despite having a healthy dislike of Google that company is way more innovative and pushing the boundaries these days. Microsoft _will_ catch up with and overtake Apple within the next three years.

Dude we have heard the same speech over and over for the past 3 years.

First Surface was supposed to kill iPads and so on...

I mean, how are we supposed take anything you say seriously when you still talk about that famous myth that "Microsoft bailed out Apple"?

Edited by zhangm, Feb 12 2014, 7:46pm :

Microsoft did, it is well documented. Care to tell me who claimed Surface would be the iPad killer?

Problem with Apple is that the company basically leans on one egg in their basket (iOS and devices running it) and as such once that egg cracks, which it will, they have a huge problem.

Microsoft can dump Xbox, Windows Phone, OneDrive, Windows 8 and still be a viable and profitable company. Apple without iOS is dead in the water.

paulheu said,
Microsoft did, it is well documented. Care to tell me who claimed Surface would be the iPad killer?

Problem with Apple is that the company basically leans on one egg in their basket (iOS and devices running it) and as such once that egg cracks, which it will, they have a huge problem.

Microsoft can dump Xbox, Windows Phone, OneDrive, Windows 8 and still be a viable and profitable company. Apple without iOS is dead in the water.

Look up articles with original surface on this site, it's all in the history.

And Microsoft never bailed out Apple. Google it, you will see that there was a smal investment but Apple had 10x more cash on hand at the time. It's something g that grew to a myth.

Which is why anything you say in this matter can be easily discredited because you started with a wrong fact.

"App Store growth makes Apple's iTunes business alone more valuable than Xerox, CBS"

Maybe they don't need to worry just yet...

MS bailed out Apple; Steve Job's words: "“I called up Bill and said, “I'm going to turn this thing around.” Bill always had a soft spot for Apple. We got him into the application software business. The first Microsoft apps were Excel and Word for the Mac. So I called him and said, “I need help.” Microsoft was walking over Apple's patents. I said, “If we kept up our lawsuits, a few years from now we could win a billion-dollar patent suit. You know it, and I know it. But Apple's not going to survive that long if we're at war. I know that. So let's figure out how to settle this right away. All I need is a commitment that Microsoft will keep developing for the Mac and an investment by Microsoft in Apple so it has a stake in our success"... Remember IE had to come out in MACs?

VHMP01 said,
MS bailed out Apple; Steve Job's words: "“I called up Bill and said, “I'm going to turn this thing around.” Bill always had a soft spot for Apple. We got him into the application software business. The first Microsoft apps were Excel and Word for the Mac. So I called him and said, “I need help.” Microsoft was walking over Apple's patents. I said, “If we kept up our lawsuits, a few years from now we could win a billion-dollar patent suit. You know it, and I know it. But Apple's not going to survive that long if we're at war. I know that. So let's figure out how to settle this right away. All I need is a commitment that Microsoft will keep developing for the Mac and an investment by Microsoft in Apple so it has a stake in our success"... Remember IE had to come out in MACs?

Sigh..

The agreement between Apple and Microsoft provided for a cross licensing agreement between the companies, a commitment by Microsoft to continue producing Office for Mac for at least 5 years, the inclusion of IE as the default browser on new Macs and a symbolic $150 million investment. At the time, Apple had $1.2 billion in cash.

I wonder how many times I'll have to post this on Neowin

VHMP01 said,

"Later testimony in the U.S. D.O.J. Microsoft anti-trust trial revealed that, at the time, Apple was threatening Microsoft with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit over the allegedly stolen code, and in return Bill Gates was threatening with the cancellation of Office for the Mac. [2] [3] In August 1997, Apple and Microsoft announced a settlement deal. Apple would drop all current lawsuits, including all lingering issues from the "Look & Feel" lawsuit and the "QuickTime source code" lawsuit, and agree to make Internet Explorer the default browser on the Macintosh unless the user explicitly chose the bundled Netscape browser. In return, Microsoft agreed to continue developing Office, Internet Explorer, and various developer tools and software for the Mac for the next 5 years, and purchase $150 million of non-voting Apple stock. The companies also agreed to mutual collaboration on Java technologies, and to cross-license all existing patents, and patents obtained during the five-year deal, with one another."

stevan said,

Dude we have heard the same speech over and over for the past 3 years.

First Surface was supposed to kill iPads and so on...

I mean, how are we supposed take anything you say seriously when you still talk about that famous myth that "Microsoft bailed out Apple"?

First ioff, it the media you love so much which has you brainwashed that every selling tablet has ot be an iPad Killer. What does that have to do with his point? Did Microsoft ever say the Surface was an iPad Killer? Did Motorola say the XOOM was an iPad Killer? Did Samsung say the Note was an iPad Killer? NO. NONE OF THEM DID. The only one that said it was these blogs you frequent and like a broken record you simply repeated it.

When Apple releases a new version of OS X, you all don't say, this is a Windows Killer, do you? When Apple updates iOS, you don't call it the Android Killer do you? So why do you all do it to everyone else?

Since you always seem to have an answer for everything, please answer that.

stevan said,

Sigh..

I wonder how many times I'll have to post this on Neowin

I will tell you why, because it is only 50% of the whole truth. SO since it isn't the whole truth, then it makes it a lie.

What is missing is this fact. Devs were dropping from Mac OS because they weren't making any money. If Microsoft the world's largest dev would have stopped making Office for the Mac, it wold have lead to Apple's demise. THAT IS FACT.

Microsoft offered a 5 year commitment to make Office for the Mac. Even Adobe considered leaving because, their Macromedia acquired apps and things like Photoshop sold better on Windows. As loyal as Adobe was to Apple, Jobs spat in their face by doing what they did to Flash. Well tried an failed.

Yes it was a deal that included cross-licensing, but that isn't the whole story. Its on the part you all wanted to hear.

Fact is, Microsoft did save Apple, bu it wasn't the $150M that saved them. They were saved by the fact Microsoft was going to drop Office from the Mac and that basically would have gave Windows a near 100% monopoly in the OS market. With the DOJ already all over Microsoft, they simply did what was best.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
First ioff, it the media you love so much which has you brainwashed that every selling tablet has ot be an iPad Killer. What does that have to do with his point? Did Microsoft ever say the Surface was an iPad Killer? Did Motorola say the XOOM was an iPad Killer? Did Samsung say the Note was an iPad Killer? NO. NONE OF THEM DID. The only one that said it was these blogs you frequent and like a broken record you simply repeated it.

When Apple releases a new version of OS X, you all don't say, this is a Windows Killer, do you? When Apple updates iOS, you don't call it the Android Killer do you? So why do you all do it to everyone else?

Since you always seem to have an answer for everything, please answer that.

It's simple. Apple is the most valuable tech company in the world. They don't need to "kill" anything....

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,

What is missing is this fact. Devs were dropping from Mac OS because they weren't making any money. If Microsoft the world's largest dev would have stopped making Office for the Mac, it wold have lead to Apple's demise. THAT IS FACT.

No it's not, it's your opinion and a guess, but no a fact. Just like this editorial is just an opinion.

stevan said,

Look up articles with original surface on this site, it's all in the history.

And Microsoft never bailed out Apple. Google it, you will see that there was a smal investment but Apple had 10x more cash on hand at the time. It's something g that grew to a myth.

Which is why anything you say in this matter can be easily discredited because you started with a wrong fact.

They did bail them out. Just not with money. Microosft had something more powerful than money. Also as Stave Jobs said, Apple couldn't afford to battle legal against Microsoft because they simply didn't have the money to do so. HIS OWN WORDS.

What Apple needed to bail tem out was Microsoft as the worlds largest dev to continue to support the Mac platform when everyone else was leaving. If MS would have left that would have been the dagger in the back. That is why Steve Jobs agreed to some of the most stupidest things MS wanted, like making IE the default browser on Mac OS.

I do have to point out that the general market, currently, wants lighter, tinned and longer battery devices. And this is exactly the area where Apple has excelled. Most people aren't interested in the overall features as much as these three categories.

Id say your wrong.... the general market doesnt actual want that, its being told they want that by apple who make such a big thing about size weight thinness battery life etc. There just convincing people they need it and they keep producing it when really the general consumer doesnt know what they want. Just cus it thin doesnt make it better

psionicinversion said,
Id say your wrong.... the general market doesnt actual want that, its being told they want that by apple who make such a big thing about size weight thinness battery life etc. There just convincing people they need it and they keep producing it when really the general consumer doesnt know what they want. Just cus it thin doesnt make it better

Secondly, let's just for a second use common sense: we are talking about tablets, devices that people carry and hold with their hands. So saying that the majority of the market wants devices that are thinner (easier to handle), lighter (easier to hold) and have a longer battery life (longer use) is spot on. No need for marketin to tell people that.

One market where Apple isn't the king is price. Their profits are a premium price and another large chunk of the market will only want devices based on price.

Edited by zhangm, Feb 12 2014, 7:34pm :

psionicinversion said,
Id say your wrong.... the general market doesnt actual want that, its being told they want that by apple who make such a big thing about size weight thinness battery life etc. There just convincing people they need it and they keep producing it when really the general consumer doesnt know what they want. Just cus it thin doesnt make it better


LOL.. Battery life, size and weight are the first things people are looking for in mobile devices. Its silly to deny it. No one wants to hold a hefty device for prolonged period of time. No one wants in dying quickly without charger.

I cant believe this has to be explained. Yes functionality is important, but given similar functionality, light and long lasting devices always win.

Cleaned for the last time.

Do not call other members trolls. Do not threaten other members by publically saying that you will report their posts.

Yeah that is true but your kind of groomed into it so then it becomes a standard want and need and expect things to be lighter, faster, better battery etc. Every company does it, its how they sell there products so ultimately theres nothing wrong in it. If they suddenly started saying hey what youve got is fine there would be a bit of backlash but then most people would accept it and carry on.

So generally your coerced into wanting something by companys to sell there latest products. Some are not good at it some are thats when market leaders emerge and become dominant. Obviously its a business they need to keep selling stuff to keep profits up but most are subtley coerced to be honest so yah, thats my opinion obviously wont be the opinion of everyone but its mine and i like it... and i like better tech to, am i coerced, most likely

psionicinversion said,
Yeah that is true but your kind of groomed into it so then it becomes a standard want and need and expect things to be lighter, faster, better battery etc. Every company does it, its how they sell there products so ultimately theres nothing wrong in it. If they suddenly started saying hey what youve got is fine there would be a bit of backlash but then most people would accept it and carry on.

So generally your coerced into wanting something by companys to sell there latest products. Some are not good at it some are thats when market leaders emerge and become dominant. Obviously its a business they need to keep selling stuff to keep profits up but most are subtley coerced to be honest so yah, thats my opinion obviously wont be the opinion of everyone but its mine and i like it... and i like better tech to, am i coerced, most likely

Ok, let me try this again.

Secondly, let's just for a second use common sense: we are talking about tablets, devices that people carry and hold with their hands. So saying that the majority of the market wants devices that are thinner (easier to handle), lighter (easier to hold) and have a longer battery life (longer use) is spot on. No need for marketin to tell people that.

Now, lets expand it to:

Televisions
Laptops
Portable DVD Players
Watches
Mp3 Players

Basically every portable device out there, and almost EVERY device out there has been made smaller, lighter and with longer battery life. CPU's itself are getting smaller and more efficient.

Honestly, don't you get common sense?

zhangm said,
Cleaned for the last time.

Do not call other members trolls. Do not threaten other members by publically saying that you will report their posts.

Seriously man what do you expect with words like these:

the general market doesnt actual want that, its being told they want that by apple...

Yeah that is true but your kind of groomed into it...

Every device with a screen has not been getting smaller, you know smartphones, right? Did you ever heard about 84" TVs a couple of years ago? There were lighter eBook readers with better battery life also, yet the iPad was not the lightest nor the one that lasted the longest, was it? It all has to do with 'Features', or as always 'Funtion', it can look nice, but the so called features and its integration (functions) are what matters the most!

VHMP01 said,
Every device with a screen has not been getting smaller, you know smartphones, right? Did you ever heard about 84" TVs a couple of years ago? There were lighter eBook readers with better battery life also, yet the iPad was not the lightest nor the one that lasted the longest, was it? It all has to do with 'Features', or as always 'Funtion', it can look nice, but the so called features and its integration (functions) are what matters the most!

TVs didn't get smaller but they definitely got thinner. Same thing with smartphones.....thinner, larger battery life. Every manufacturer has been playing that game. And iPad isn't a ebook reader. Sorry to break it to you but the market currently doesn't care about features.

They care about 4 things:

Thinner
Lighter
Battery life
Price

stevan said,
I do have to point out that the general market, currently, wants lighter, tinned and longer battery devices. And this is exactly the area where Apple has excelled. Most people aren't interested in the overall features as much as these three categories.
So ho is it the Note does more and has equal or better battery-life? Oh and look, in the Note 10.1 2014, the battery is actually smaller than the one in the iPad Air.

The tablet will last all day for most users, because they only use it a little at a time. Unless you sit at home all day, the iPad will last all day a full charge. So will most. But under very heavy load in my case an iPad 3 vs the Note 10.1 2014, I played Need for Speed on my Note while the Kid used the iPad. From a full charge his died in under 6 hours and mine still had 20% left. This was leaving both devices on their respective native power settings of 50% screen brightness and all possible apps closed.

My Note 3 can fully charge from 0% in just 2 hours while the iPhone still takes more than 3. My Note 10.1 2014 fully charges from 20% in under 4 hours while my iPad 3 still takes more than 5. YEs thanks to the Notes having a more powerful charger it sure helps. Why cant Apple give you a 2AMP iPhone charger?

I carry a charger whether I use it or not. If I need power I can get it.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
So ho is it the Note does more and has equal or better battery-life? Oh and look, in the Note 10.1 2014, the battery is actually smaller than the one in the iPad Air.

The tablet will last all day for most users, because they only use it a little at a time. Unless you sit at home all day, the iPad will last all day a full charge. So will most. But under very heavy load in my case an iPad 3 vs the Note 10.1 2014, I played Need for Speed on my Note while the Kid used the iPad. From a full charge his died in under 6 hours and mine still had 20% left. This was leaving both devices on their respective native power settings of 50% screen brightness and all possible apps closed.

My Note 3 can fully charge from 0% in just 2 hours while the iPhone still takes more than 3. My Note 10.1 2014 fully charges from 20% in under 4 hours while my iPad 3 still takes more than 5. YEs thanks to the Notes having a more powerful charger it sure helps. Why cant Apple give you a 2AMP iPhone charger?

I carry a charger whether I use it or not. If I need power I can get it.

No, this is your opinion. I showed you several reviews where the iPad has much better battery life. In fact the majority of reviews say the iPad air is the best tablet out there. So I'll take their opinion and tests over yours any day.

stevan said,

No, this is your opinion. I showed you several reviews where the iPad has much better battery life. In fact the majority of reviews say the iPad air is the best tablet out there. So I'll take their opinion and tests over yours any day.

They have better battery-life...why? No real multi-tasking? One app at a time? Unclocked CPU's? Of course they have better battery-life. They don't do nothing.

Again this is where you contine to fail at logic.
Lets take a luxury car vs a economy car. Like with the iPad vs the Note, there will be lots of similarities.

But then lets compare. The Economy car like the Camry for example, isn't as luxuriant as a Mercedes. However, since the gas tank is equal to the battery, what is going to matter, spending less on gas or looking good? A person with money who can afford both has to consider its usage. The Benz may be nice, but if driving it to work everyday is it worth the hit on the pocket?

Again be reasonable vs biased. The iPad does a few things better in hardware over the Note. But what about the software as the hardware means nothing without it.

Battery-life - lets compare. You are comparing a TEST where they play a movie and let it loop until the tablets die vs a real world usage test. Why watches movies for 6 hours? Who plays a HD game for 6 hours non-stop? NO ONE!!! Or hardly NO ONE!

Just like no one pushes 4 cores to full clock speed on a smartphone either.

Based on typical usage, a Note will last equal as long as an iPad based on normal usage. In other words, where the devices were used equally the same in a day, hey both lasted the same amount of time. S how is the iPad better in battery-life? Because a test said it is? A test on usage where you don't even use it that way?

For a person to sit 6 hours at one time on an iPad or any device has to be the most boring no life having person.

My usage and your usage aren't exactly the same, but I bet they are near the same. The most I ever used an iPad at one time is roughly 2 hours to watch a full movie. After that my eyes needed a break. Maybe YOU can use it for 6 hours non stop. Maybe you also don't have a job, maybe you aren't married, maybe you don't have kids. But I have all those. So where in my day am I going to ave 6 hours tpo spend at one time watxh a string of movies? NONE. Which means those battery test mean nothing except what you want them to mean.

Which is also equal to this fact. if I only have to drive 5 miles to work, any car will be suffient and how many miles it gets per gallon mean nothing as mu usage will be small anyways. But If I drive 40 miles to work per day, a car that can get close to 35mpg is a better buy and thus this is a huge plus. If you are a person who uses an iPad non-stop for 8-10 hours per day, then yes you need to consider battery-life. however, do you consider someone will use an iPad for 6 hours? Even in schools they aren't used that long? I know because my company install them at Sylvan Learning Centers and the kids use them less than 2hours in a day.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
They have better battery-life...why? No real multi-tasking? One app at a time? Unclocked CPU's? Of course they have better battery-life. They don't do nothing.

Again this is where you contine to fail at logic.
Lets take a luxury car vs a economy car. Like with the iPad vs the Note, there will be lots of similarities.

But then lets compare. The Economy car like the Camry for example, isn't as luxuriant as a Mercedes. However, since the gas tank is equal to the battery, what is going to matter, spending less on gas or looking good? A person with money who can afford both has to consider its usage. The Benz may be nice, but if driving it to work everyday is it worth the hit on the pocket?

Again be reasonable vs biased. The iPad does a few things better in hardware over the Note. But what about the software as the hardware means nothing without it.

Battery-life - lets compare. You are comparing a TEST where they play a movie and let it loop until the tablets die vs a real world usage test. Why watches movies for 6 hours? Who plays a HD game for 6 hours non-stop? NO ONE!!! Or hardly NO ONE!

Just like no one pushes 4 cores to full clock speed on a smartphone either.

Based on typical usage, a Note will last equal as long as an iPad based on normal usage. In other words, where the devices were used equally the same in a day, hey both lasted the same amount of time. S how is the iPad better in battery-life? Because a test said it is? A test on usage where you don't even use it that way?

For a person to sit 6 hours at one time on an iPad or any device has to be the most boring no life having person.

My usage and your usage aren't exactly the same, but I bet they are near the same. The most I ever used an iPad at one time is roughly 2 hours to watch a full movie. After that my eyes needed a break. Maybe YOU can use it for 6 hours non stop. Maybe you also don't have a job, maybe you aren't married, maybe you don't have kids. But I have all those. So where in my day am I going to ave 6 hours tpo spend at one time watxh a string of movies? NONE. Which means those battery test mean nothing except what you want them to mean.

Which is also equal to this fact. if I only have to drive 5 miles to work, any car will be suffient and how many miles it gets per gallon mean nothing as mu usage will be small anyways. But If I drive 40 miles to work per day, a car that can get close to 35mpg is a better buy and thus this is a huge plus. If you are a person who uses an iPad non-stop for 8-10 hours per day, then yes you need to consider battery-life. however, do you consider someone will use an iPad for 6 hours? Even in schools they aren't used that long? I know because my company install them at Sylvan Learning Centers and the kids use them less than 2hours in a day.

Perhaps for many prospective buyers, the battery life isn't as important if the tablet is going to be for home use. But if you plan on taking a tablet with you on your commute, you'll definitely want the iPad for that extra juice.

stevan said,

No, this is your opinion. I showed you several reviews where the iPad has much better battery life. In fact the majority of reviews say the iPad air is the best tablet out there. So I'll take their opinion and tests over yours any day.

SO WHAT!

Battery life doesn't matter to me. Come back with a better argument. Based on the general usage of most people, any tablet will have long enough battery life. No tablet I have ever used has ever died in less than a day...EVER. Why? Because there are 24 hours in a day and no one has the time to use it long enough.

Now when my 4 year old uses his mini it does die fairly fast. Why? Because he sits and watches movies on Netflix and YouTube all day and it last maybe 5 or 6 hrs and dies. He also doesn't have a job. he doesn't drive, he is only in school 3 hours. How many adults get to spend a whole day on their iPad other than YOU? Or any other tablet.

So because the iPad has great battery-life that is enough for you to claim it is the best tablet? OMG! Must do better.

Here I know how to end the argument. The iPAd is a very nice tablet which seriously lacks the capabilities I NEED. Because of that it is not the tablet I chose to own. I've had 2 and they are not worth $499 period. Also to be fair, the Surface isn't worth $499 either because it too is limited even with Office. To be more fair, most Android tablets are even more seriously lacking. The only one that is the best is the Note and that is the only tablet I want to own at this moment. I have the Note 3 and I plan to get the Note Pro for my Bday on the 02/22.

You enjoy your iPad. But to cheerlead dor it is getting tiresome and I have better things to do. I rather argue with someone who has an open mind, common sense and is device/platform agnostic. To argue with someone who is less than that is below my standards.

True. I hope Apple addresses this issue in iOS 8. I noticed this lag when I was using Windows 8 alongside the iPad.

Rosyna said,
The only complaint is that the iPad will only show one app's GUI at a time?

Apparently. It's a perfectly valid complaint, but this whole editorial can practically be condensed to this single sentence:

When using the iPad, which has a nearly 10-inch display, you can't run two apps (aside from music) at the same time.

Exactly. And it isn't like Windows RT has had this capability since day 1 either, so it just looks like Brad found a new stick and couldn't resist taking a swing at Apple.

recursive said,
And it isn't like Windows RT has had this capability since day 1 either

It did and was one of the key points present in every presentation of Windows 8/RT/Metro…

I like this editorial. I love my iPad and iPhone but there are lots of features that I wish Apple would add. Jail breaking is a good way to add a lot of those missing features but most people don't know how to jailbreak.

stevan said,
I like this editorial. I love my iPad and iPhone but there are lots of features that I wish Apple would add. Jail breaking is a good way to add a lot of those missing features but most people don't know how to jailbreak.
Nor do they want too. Jailbreaking ruins the native iOS experience. Apps crash more, eve the themes crash. I get so sick of the phone booting in safe mode because something.crashed it.

Now you just said you wish the iPad had some other features. There are tablets with those features, so why not buy them?

You rather suffer not having things you claim you want, because of some blind loyalty to a brand who only wants money. They all want money! However, at least some give you something for the value of your money.

I invite you to use a Note 10.1 2014 or the Note Pro, next to an iPad. I mean actually use them side by side. Take your iPad to the Best Buy and use it next to the Note 10.1 2014. I invite you to compare more than plastic vs metal and Apple vs Samsung. Just pretend for 20 mins that the tablet have no logos and use them and do a real comparison. Oh and you must be open minded. If you are going to just remained biased, then don't waste your time.

because you just admitted there is something wrong with the iPad. But you aren't willing to give details because then it would be admitting to us we are right.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Nor do they want too. Jailbreaking ruins the native iOS experience. Apps crash more, eve the themes crash. I get so sick of the phone booting in safe mode because something.crashed it.

Now you just said you wish the iPad had some other features. There are tablets with those features, so why not buy them?

You rather suffer not having things you claim you want, because of some blind loyalty to a brand who only wants money. They all want money! However, at least some give you something for the value of your money.

I invite you to use a Note 10.1 2014 or the Note Pro, next to an iPad. I mean actually use them side by side. Take your iPad to the Best Buy and use it next to the Note 10.1 2014. I invite you to compare more than plastic vs metal and Apple vs Samsung. Just pretend for 20 mins that the tablet have no logos and use them and do a real comparison. Oh and you must be open minded. If you are going to just remained biased, then don't waste your time.

because you just admitted there is something wrong with the iPad. But you aren't willing to give details because then it would be admitting to us we are right.

I used the note. My friend has it. The battery life isn't as good, there are a few apps that I prefer on my iPod, it doesn't have iCloud and iTunes, which for music is the best out there.

See, it's not so hard. I use all sorts of products but the iPad for me works much better than the note. Does it have all the features I want? No. But in my opinion is it better than the note? Yes.

stevan said,

I used the note. My friend has it. The battery life isn't as good, there are a few apps that I prefer on my iPod, it doesn't have iCloud and iTunes, which for music is the best out there.

See, it's not so hard. I use all sorts of products but the iPad for me works much better than the note. Does it have all the features I want? No. But in my opinion is it better than the note? Yes.

Do you have to use iCloud? NO. Is iCloud the only service available for storing your media? NO. Google Play works the same. If I purchase music or movies, I don't have to play them, I can stream them from Google's Cloud service. The same as with iPad. What is your point?

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
Do you have to use iCloud? NO. Is iCloud the only service available for storing your media? NO. Google Play works the same. If I purchase music or movies, I don't have to play them, I can stream them from Google's Cloud service. The same as with iPad. What is your point?

What are you talking about? iCloud syncs my notepad, music, movies, numbers, radio, keychain and others. I told you, I used a note and found that iPad is better for me. iCloud I found to be easier to use and sync than google music.

Do you not get that a lot of people prefer Apple products and services to others? Are you that stupid?

stevan said,

What are you talking about? iCloud syncs my notepad, music, movies, numbers, radio, keychain and others. I told you, I used a note and found that iPad is better for me. iCloud I found to be easier to use and sync than google music.

Do you not get that a lot of people prefer Apple products and services to others? Are you that stupid?

Google's cloud service does those things as well, But you are right if one prefers to use y product vs x product they're at liberty to do so.

Of course there's something wrong with the iPad. There's something wrong with the Note as with any other device as well. Since no device is ever going to be perfect and completely suitable for everyone, one has to go for the lesser evil. Things that make me prefer the iPad over the Note:

- Samsung's touchwiz: I despise it deeply, for performance and aesthetics reasons
- Orientation and aspect ratio: the Note is a 16:10 tablet, not really good in portrait mode
- Hardware buttons: they suck even worse in portrait mode. And why, why on Earth do they place the back button on the right side instead of the left.

I actually prefer stock Android over iOS. And I'd surely wish the iPad had a an SD slot as well (though Google is sadly going the same route). I still choose the iPad Air over the alternatives. Now, if a manufacturer were to give me an exact iPad air clone running stock Android and throw in an SD card slot and HDMI output, I'd replace it in a heartbeat. Alas, no one is really doing that (apart from second rate chinese wannabe knockoffs)

And yes, YMMV.

Edited by ParadiseLost, Feb 19 2014, 11:28am :

maybe be not, but following that logic, neither do most of the other articles and ALL editorials!

kapish?

some like to read about stuff like that, some don't.


though the title of the article is a flamebate, now that i think about it.

The title is indeed a flamebate but.... it generates clicks, and clicks generates revenues, and pecunia not olet. Honestly I do not mind as long as flamebate geared posts are kept within a reasonable percentage.

Capisci?

Ummmmm, did they change the definition of the word "editorial" and only tell the three of you?

I was under the impression that Editorials are supposed to be opinion..... Subjects can either be called clickbate OR... It could be a subject to provoke conversation, which it has succeeded in..

The Surface is just one of many Windows tablets. While Windows RT hasn't done well, though the Surface 2 seems to being doing much better than the Surface RT, Windows 8 tablets appear to be doing much better. The Dell Venue 8 Pro seems to have been a hit, indeed these new 8" Bay Trail devices have struck a chord. The quality, price, performance and capability of these devices has added a very interesting product in the tablet space.

I've had a Dell Venue 8 Pro for about three months, got my wife one for Christmas. Great devices for the price, and very competitive with the iPad Mini and mini Android tablets. I think Microsoft and its partners have the right idea here. The major issue for Windows tablets right now is tablet apps. That's really the key to Windows tablets. It's getting there but the progress is too slow. But the Windows 8 WatchESPN app just came out, and that was a big one on my list.

Don't assume Apple is standing still.

They most likely conduct extensive research on these topics and when the timing is right (that is the consumer base needs it), it will be there.

Many people have a hard time seeing the clear separation between "geek needs" and the general consumer ones. Apple doesn't and it is part of the reason why they are successful.

TheCyberKnight said,
Don't assume Apple is standing still.

They most likely conduct extensive research on these topics and when the timing is right (that is the consumer base needs it), it will be there.

Many people have a hard time seeing the clear separation between "geek needs" and the general consumer ones. Apple doesn't and it is part of the reason why they are successful.

Amen Brotha, Amen!

Some might question why Apple has not done this or done that, but the fact remains, millions of people are lining up over night just to get their latest iDevices - even if it only comes with minor upgrades. What they are doing is working for the consumers, and they will stick with it as long as it works.

VHMP01 said,
So the consumers were ready for iMaps or not?

You are making it sound like no companies made any mistakes in the past.

TheCyberKnight said,
Don't assume Apple is standing still.

They most likely conduct extensive research on these topics and when the timing is right (that is the consumer base needs it), it will be there.

Many people have a hard time seeing the clear separation between "geek needs" and the general consumer ones. Apple doesn't and it is part of the reason why they are successful.

They probably aren't standing still, but they are still behind the ball, which is kind of the point.

Apple also has other things to consider that won't make it easy to offer the improvements this article and users are asking to have.

Just allowing more than one App on the screen will break most Apps in the store due to how Apple's framework sucks at scaling and requiring true flow and rescaling.

Apple also has made a hard stand that allowing a tablet to act too much like a computer is a bad decision. (And vice versa) They attack Windows with this every chance they get.


Also if you look at what Apple has done with UI innovations, they have virtually NONE of their own in over 30 years. OS X today has the same antiquated 'text based' Menu bar at the top and the same base functionality. Even the iPhone's touch screen gestures were ripped off from MIT/MS from a TED demonstration.

In retrospect, at best we hope that Apple will catch up with Windows on a tablet, but even then they are still running a reduced feature set mobile OS that has a lot of limitations. They would truly have to bring the real OS X to the iPad and built from there to compete with Windows even in the RT area alone.

I am giving the 'doom/gloom' version of your post, and the truth will probably be somewhere in the middle, but it doesn't hurt to hold Apple to the same expectations and standards that everyone is so quick to hold Microsoft against.

TheCyberKnight said,
Don't assume Apple is standing still.

They most likely conduct extensive research on these topics and when the timing is right (that is the consumer base needs it), it will be there.

Many people have a hard time seeing the clear separation between "geek needs" and the general consumer ones. Apple doesn't and it is part of the reason why they are successful.

Timing? Timing to do what? Your desktop computer already multi-tasks multiple apps. Why should a tablet that cost almost as much do less. I can buy a Windows PC for less than an iPad and t will do more and that isn't even counting Office.

The Note look at it. Many people do like using its features, after all they are selling like hotcakes. In all sizes by the way.

Why are you all so willing to excuse Apple? Example, when Windows Phone appeared with the simplest features missing like copy/paste, you all attacked it. Yet the first iPhone didn't have this either, nor could it record live video, yet cheaper flip phones could do both and then some. But you all excused it. Then it took 3 more models for you to finally get things other phones could do years before.

This is why APple keeps feeding you all APPLESAUCE. BEcause you are so willing to jut open and eat when you should be throwing it back in their face.

But you all would be the first to say, I wont buy a Surface or a Note even though they have the features I want now. I rather wait for Apple to finally do it because they will do it better. What?

Just not worth it anymore. This site is just become flamebait and console wars.

Edited by fusi0n, Feb 12 2014, 6:52pm :

fusi0n said,
Articles like this, make me not want to come to this site.. Just a flame bait post.. This place is getting very annoying and childish. Ever care to think, that iOS just works differently, and has it's own ecosystem.. The iPad is a very capable device.. You just have to take the jump and be committed to learn how you can use it productively.. Yes, It isn't Windows.. IT ISN'T SUPPOSE to work like Windows or Android.. When you use an iPad for business, your entire business model really has to change for the most part depending on how much you want to rely on it..

If suggesting how it could be better, makes you want to leave this site, then no one is holding you The device is very capable, but there is no reason to be angry at a discussion on how it could be even better.

I think the newest iPad is great, and I use it with pleasure, yet I would like to see even more done with it.


EDIT: on second thought you might be right on the flame bait. i read the article, but the title of it is way over the top.

I think part of the problem that precludes variable-sized apps from existing on iOS is the fixed positioning of visible controls aligned to a handful of sizes. Even popular apps such as Google Maps have glitches when you turn on Personal Hotspot - the thickened blue bar at the top clips off bottom controls in the app.

On the flipside, fixed positioning allows for iOS tablet apps to be well-designed for iPads and you have that guarantee iPad apps are indeed designed for the iPad. Hence we have the current situation where there are a ton of tablet-friendly apps for iOS (plus universal apps) whereas some Android tablet apps are the same as phone apps but scaled up, and there are less of them.

WinRT apps have an advantage for taking advantage of fluid scaling to different sizes due to the OS requiring it, and the Metro design language. By its nature, Metro apps are usually less dense than apps on Android or iOS, which tend to be full of controls.

... with all that aside, the appeal of iPads to me is both the exceptional battery life (in stark contrast to their phones, which is pretty crap), the app selection, and shared apps in the iOS ecosystem. Sure, iOS isn't the most feature-filled OS around, but it gets the job done for the most part.

Edited by Denis W., Feb 12 2014, 6:48pm :

Typically Apple has used under clocking to produce longer battery life. I think the impact on battery would be undesirable to their advertising specs.

The aspect ratio doesn't accommodate it very well as it's 4:3, whilst the surface is 16:9 so it looks a more natural on that device. Having said that, I absolutely hate using a 16:9 tablet in portrait mode whereas I actually use my iPad is portrait most of the time so I'd hate for them to change the aspect ratio. I wonder if 16:10 would be a good compromise? Side by side apps would be nice...

Buttus said,
I never did understand why the newer ipad's couldn't run 2 programs side by side.

If you jailbreak it, you can run more than 1 apps at once in window mode, not in full screen.

It's not a secret that I have a healthy mix of hardware in my house. I have lots of Apple gear and loads of Windows machines around from reviews past and present. While inevitably, when writing any kind of editorial such as this one, you will get labeled a fanboy, I do use a bit of everything, as I use what's best for my needs, not what's best to portray a certain type of image.

It's sad that you have to include this paragraph.

At least you read it...99% of flames come from those who think they get the point without reading. Being blindly loyal to any company serves no value...they don't care about you, only your wallet.

Use what's best for you, not what the market says you should use.

I don't think people being complete sheep to the point of not reading an article they may think badmouths their great and holy God of All Computing, and just posting nonsense because they feel like they have a right, is really a "necessary evil".

It's unnecessary idiocy.

greenwizard88 said,
Does it really need a justification? Per inch of screen It's the thinnest, lightest, and has the best battery life.

I hate Apple with passion but I have to agreed that the ecosystem in an Apple device is really great and the performance amazing. However the Windows 8 RT and Windows Phone 8 is captching up pretty quickly and this year with the coming release of 8.1... Windows Phone is going to kick ass.

greenwizard88 said,
Does it really need a justification? Per inch of screen It's the thinnest, lightest, and has the best battery life.

I'd take a Kindle Fire HDX over an iPad to be honest. If you're interested in nothing but specs you will too.

greenwizard88 said,
Does it really need a justification? Per inch of screen It's the thinnest, lightest, and has the best battery life.

So according to you my calculator from 1998 which is thinner, lighter and has even grater battery life is better? HUH!

greenwizard88 said,
Does it really need a justification? Per inch of screen It's the thinnest, lightest, and has the best battery life.
Thin, light and longest battery life, doesn't make it good hardware. Also: Surface 2's battery last longer.

DaveBG said,

So according to you my calculator from 1998 which is thinner, lighter and has even grater battery life is better? HUH!

I thiught this article is about tablets, not calculators?

greenwizard88 said,
Does it really need a justification? Per inch of screen It's the thinnest, lightest, and has the best battery life.

The Xperia Tablet Z is thinner and only a little bit heavier with a slightly bigger screen. Don't know about battery life but the differences are getting smaller and smaller.

greenwizard88 said,
Does it really need a justification? Per inch of screen It's the thinnest, lightest, and has the best battery life.

that's not a fact, that's your opinion.

facts:
-Surface 2 has the best battery life:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/1...microsoft-surface-2-review/

-surface 2 has not the best resolution, but it has a better screen (less reflections in outdoor situations, black is less gray than on the ipad)

-surface is more sturdy than the iPad.
-and it has a kickstand.

IMO these facts make it a better hardware than the iPad.

link8506 said,

that's not a fact, that's your opinion.

facts:
-Surface 2 has the best battery life:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/1...microsoft-surface-2-review/

-surface 2 has not the best resolution, but it has a better screen (less reflections in outdoor situations, black is less gray than on the ipad)

-surface is more sturdy than the iPad.
-and it has a kickstand.

IMO these facts make it a better hardware than the iPad.

Google surface battery life vs ipad air. You may be surprised.

stevan said,

Google surface battery life vs ipad air. You may be surprised.

surprise!

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/29/ipad-air-review/

13:45 for the iPad air
14:22 for surface 2

and btw, Surface 2 has Flash Player support. Yes, the thing that Steve Jobs claimed would "kill battery life" on a tablet.

Flash can be disabled though, which could get you slightly better battery life if needed, but with so much battery life, I prefer to run IE with Flash enabled and have a better web browsing experience.

link8506 said,

surprise!

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/29/ipad-air-review/

13:45 for the iPad air
14:22 for surface 2

Surface 2 has much better battery life than its predecessor, but in real world usage it still falls well short of that offered by Apple's tablet.

Betanews. Overall winner: iPad

Microsoft's Surface 2 lasted 9 hours and 19 minutes on the LAPTOP Battery Test, which is a major improvement over the first-generation Surface. However, the Air lasted longer over a more power- hungry LTE connection (10:47) than the Surface did over Wi-Fi.

Winner: iPad Air. Offering 2 hours of more endurance gives the Air the advantage

LaptopMag. Overall Winner: iPad Air

Microsoft quotes the Surface 2 battery life at 10 hours of use, but in our testing it managed between six and eight hours per charge. The iPad Air gets much closer to its officially quoted figure (again, 10 hours)

StuffTV. Overall Winner: iPad Air

Perhaps for many prospective buyers, the battery life isn't as important if the tablet is going to be for home use. But if you plan on taking a tablet with you on your commute, you'll definitely want the iPad for that extra juice.

TechRadar. Overall Winner: iPad Air.

This is simply scratching the surface. Only the first few reviews I chose on page 1 of google results.

This article (neowin) was about a guys opinion but if you really want to go with reviews, the iPad Air absolutely slaughters competition. In fact, there is no competition.

VHMP01 said,
You relly on biased sites? Those that cannot say anything bad for their beloved fruit!

One of the reasons why I listed four of them. As for others....well I can't do all the work.

But let me guess, a biased site is the one that gives apple product a good review. Not exactly sure how a site could lie on battery tests since most are reporting same findings.

agtsmith said,
"The hardware of the iPad is the best on the market"

Care to justify...?


apple has the best hardware. its always been the problem with their software. in ipad's case software isn't really much at all so I see why they saying that

stevan said,

Overall winner: iPad

...right up to the millisecond you decide to be productive and need something like Word.

ExplodingKnees said,

...right up to the millisecond you decide to be productive and need something like Word.

I used to do all my productivity on my laptop. But in the last week I migrated my excel documents to Numbers on my iPad where I can edit them on my phone, tablet or online. Then just two days ago I created a brand new resume with a free app on my iPad. It worked like a charm and I wirelessly printed it to my printer.

I'm also in the middle or creating a keynote presentation on my iPad using keynote. So far so good.

Then again there's this:

iOS devices accounted for 73 percent of all enterprise mobile device activations and grabbed the top ten spots for most popular devices in the fourth quarter of 2013, reports Good Technology in its Mobility Index Report for Q4 2013.

I think I proved my point quite well.

stevan said,

I used to do all my productivity on my laptop. But in the last week I migrated my excel documents to Numbers on my iPad where I can edit them on my phone, tablet or online. Then just two days ago I created a brand new resume with a free app on my iPad. It worked like a charm and I wirelessly printed it to my printer.

I'm also in the middle or creating a keynote presentation on my iPad using keynote. So far so good.

Then again there's this:

I think I proved my point quite well.

What enterprises? Name one. Schools are enterprises, United Airlines using them on planes isn't enterprise either.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
What enterprises? Name one. Schools are enterprises, United Airlines using them on planes isn't enterprise either.

I didn't do the survey. Google it and find out. Fortune 500 companies, etc....

stevan said,

I didn't do the survey. Google it and find out. Fortune 500 companies, etc....

I don't want to Google. When I debate with you, I provide linked facts to backed my claims which you couldn't once debate against.

Your turn. if you can't back up what you say, the why waste time?
A company with 500 employees is considered a Fortune 500 company. That isn't saying much.

That is equal to saying. A company I work for has 500 employees. They bought iPad for 10 employees. Does that qualify as Enterprise adoption?

I asked you to name ONE. And you names none. United Airlines odes have lots of employees, they are yes a Fortune 500 company. But the iPad they bought are used in their airplanes by their customers, not their employees. Even thought yes the Stewardess' and Pilots also use them. But that is not Enterprise adoption.

Hi_XPecTa_Chens said,
I don't want to Google. When I debate with you, I provide linked facts to backed my claims which you couldn't once debate against.

Your turn. if you can't back up what you say, the why waste time?
A company with 500 employees is considered a Fortune 500 company. That isn't saying much.

That is equal to saying. A company I work for has 500 employees. They bought iPad for 10 employees. Does that qualify as Enterprise adoption?

I asked you to name ONE. And you names none. United Airlines odes have lots of employees, they are yes a Fortune 500 company. But the iPad they bought are used in their airplanes by their customers, not their employees. Even thought yes the Stewardess' and Pilots also use them. But that is not Enterprise adoption.

Dude, Fortune 500 is 500 biggest companies, NOT companies with 500 employees. OMG you are so uneducated! I'm done with you.

That rapid growth in mobile application use by companies primarily benefitted Apple and its iOS platform, as Good reported "iOS devices claimed the top ten spots for most popular devices among users."

In contrast, "Android's share of activations continued to decrease quarter over quarter at 26 percent," while "Windows Phone activations remained steady at one percent of total device activations in both quarters."

Hahaha so much for Apple products not being productive.

stevan said,

Betanews. Overall winner: iPad

LaptopMag. Overall Winner: iPad Air

StuffTV. Overall Winner: iPad Air

TechRadar. Overall Winner: iPad Air.

This is simply scratching the surface. Only the first few reviews I chose on page 1 of google results.

This article (neowin) was about a guys opinion but if you really want to go with reviews, the iPad Air absolutely slaughters competition. In fact, there is no competition.

All I see is:

RAH RAH iPad Air...RAH RAH iPad Air.
Lets cheer for the iPad because after all even when people show facst as to why something s better, all the cheerleading squad of "1" can do is cheerlead more for the iPad Air.

The iPad is a nice tablet, it is however no longer the best option or the only option. For you to actually argue someone preference is so fanboish its a shame. He likes the Surface better. Also who cares if the one trick ponly has slightly better or worse battery-life?

Let me see the plus - Can run more than one app on screen, iPad can't. The Surface can print to more printers that the iPad cant. The Surface can use a more and keyboard, the iPad can't. The Surface can have its storage expanded via USB, the iPad can't. The Magnesium allow is lighter and more durable vs aluminum.

As far as productivity. From my usage of iPad and Surface and Android tablets in general, how you define productivity is based on how you use it to be productive.

IMO having Microsoft Office on the Surface, doesn't automatically make it more productive. Neither does having Outlook, but it is a much better start than what is offered on Android and iWorks is just a joke.

You can get "some" productivity done on iPad. You can pay bills, you can read docs, you can edit some docs and more. On a basic level they all can do that. But if you take an iPad or a Note to a real office and do productivity compared to a Surface, those 2 will lose big time on many fronts.

I personally would NEVER compare he Surface, Note and iPad for productivity.
The iPad being a 10" iPod Touch is simply to locked down for certain types of productivity. Tablets in general because of their stripped down application aren't going to mach a desktop. But again, as I stated it dopends on what you are doing that is productive. If you are a professional photographer, no tablet is going ot work. If you make music or movies, no tablet is going to work. if you work with lots of documents that use formulas and extended formatting, then no tablet is going to work.

The iPad is geared towards media, like reading books with its 4:3 aspect ration. I have yet to see anyone with an iPd do anything other than watching movies, reading a book or playing a game.

The Note is not geared towards playing games though it does it very well. It is geared towards doing productivity based on a certainly level. Its level is less than a Surface but far more than an iPad.

greenwizard88 said,
Does it really need a justification? Per inch of screen It's the thinnest, lightest, and has the best battery life.

You mean over-priced and lacking features? Yeah that claim certainly needs justifying.

MikeChipshop said,

You mean over-priced and lacking features? Yeah that claim certainly needs justifying.

You just went to another thread calling someone a troll and yet here you are ruffling feathers for no apparent reason. You can't tell someone a device is over-priced. It's their life, their income, and their opportunity cost. Stay classy Mike!