Microsoft has more up its sleeve than the Surface mini

Microsoft will host a Surface press event later this month and we have already revealed quite a bit about what the Surface mini will include. For starters, we know it will be in the 8in class of tablets and that Qualcomm will be powering the device but to hold a press event for one device, seems a bit light on material.

Since our initial post, we have learned that Microsoft will be announcing more than just the Surface mini, in fact, Intel will also be playing a part of the conference as well. And this is where the details start to get a bit murky, but let’s dive in, shall we.

First, get into your time machine as we need to go back to the Surface 2 launch. At that time, when we started leaking the specs, we kept hearing about the ‘Surface Family’ and that Microsoft wanted to make Surface the name of a line of products that encompassed different sized screens and more importantly, form factors.

Jump forward to today, and we are once again hearing that Microsoft wants to expand the family of devices and that obviously aligns to the Surface mini but could relate to other products and or peripherals. We believe this is how Microsoft initially wanted to present the Surface 2 keynotes but had to hold back as the mini was not announced at that time. The question remains, we know they are willing to go smaller with their tablets, but will they go bigger too?

Through the grapevine we have heard i7 and i3 mentioned, not quite sure if this will be a refresh to the existing devices or if Microsoft has something else up their sleeve.

What is clear, is that Microsoft will be announcing more than the Surface mini - and it could be rather mundane - like a refresh to the existing Surface lineup (most plausible), or if they are going to come out of left field with something brand new that has managed to evade the rumor mill.

The Surface mini event kicks off in 13 days and we will be there to cover the new bits of info as they are announced.

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Surface Pro XL please? Maybe at a 13" size?

Whatever they do, I just hope it's more aesthetically pleasing on the outside. The Surface 2 is much better looking by comparison imo.

If Lenovo can make a 13" laptop with an i7, 8gb RAM, 256GB SSD, 3200x1800 resolution with a keyboard at 3lbs, I'm pretty sure Microsoft could do something with even lesser specs for around the same weight...

(see Yoga Pro 2)

I would say a 1.4 pound or lighter Pro tablet with same 7+ hours battery life and broad-well intel CPU is a killer, That's what I have been waiting all along. I would pay anymuch for such a device

trojan_market said,
I would say a 1.4 pound or lighter Pro tablet with same 7+ hours battery life and broad-well intel CPU is a killer, That's what I have been waiting all along. I would pay anymuch for such a device

thinkpad 10--- coming out soon--- might be what your looking for...

trojan_market said,
I would say a 1.4 pound or lighter Pro tablet with same 7+ hours battery life and broad-well intel CPU is a killer, That's what I have been waiting all along. I would pay anymuch for such a device
Yes, indeed. I think that Microsoft already is focussing for the next generation of Surface to reduce weight. As they announced they where already working on the next 3 generations and we didn't see any change in weight in the Surface 2 and Pro 2. They might have hold those improvements up to make Surface 3 and Pro 3 (and Mini) a better product.

aimgator said,

thinkpad 10--- coming out soon--- might be what your looking for...


I think it has atom processor for that reason I pass. I like broadwell

aimgator said,
Quad-Core----though--- more than enough for tablet...

for many consumers yes but not for me. I want a tablet/ convertible to replace my laptop. I am not going to pay a price of a laptop for a tablet class machine

Qualcomm processor? Aren't the Bay Trail processors better? The Miracasting is built in and high battery life.

In keeping with the 'small' announcement... price reductions on the existing line?

Hopefully...it would be great if the accessories were discounted.

If they can do something in the 12-13" area, have proper Windows on it, decent storage (256GB or more), provide it with the proper keyboard attachment in the box AND bring it in under $1200 they'll have produced a winner.

I think the Pro is maybe a bit too small so I could see releasing a bigger, therefore thinner version.

Also, they might even release a standard laptop to compete with the Macbook Air. Surface Pro is very nice but also top heavy. A Surface laptop would be amazing.

Surface Mini could be sweet if priced right. RT just needs more popular apps.

I'm really debating about importing a x30 series phone this summer vs. keeping my 520 for another year and get the Surface Phone. Hopefully they announce/something leaks about that soon.

The surface hardware is a waste of time anyway. They should focus on making Windows less ####, and in general software that inspire OEM and that people want. Nobody wants windows, windows is what you *have to* use. People want android and iOS. Doesnt matter how hard they try, MS wont get anywhere with windows.

MSFT isn't one little company, but a big company that can, and should diversify as much as it can. there is no reason they can't explore hardware while making the investments in software. your hardware engineer can't make windows modifications anyway. This isn't a one man shop buddy.

dopydope said,
The surface hardware is a waste of time anyway. They should focus on making Windows less ####, and in general software that inspire OEM and that people want. Nobody wants windows, windows is what you *have to* use. People want android and iOS. Doesnt matter how hard they try, MS wont get anywhere with windows.

People want, and will buy, something that does what they need and does it in a way they are comfortable with. Some will find that Windows is that product, others will prefer Android etc.
Different needs, different preferences.......

The money they have invested in Surface they could have invested it in other areas - if not windows, in other services. The hardware dream is an uninspired and desperate attempt at trying to be like Apple. They just forgot that windows has always been the "cost efficient" solution vs the expensive, desirable Apple products. Nothing is desirable in Windows. And unlike Apple who provides a vertical, integrated stack of hardware and software, MS is at the end of the day just another OEM - they cant differentiate in anything major without disrupting even more their partners.
So this strategy has encouraged partners to look for backup options (chromebooks etc...), wasted a lot of money and effort internally, and damaged their image too (most medias never miss an opportunity for some MS-bashing).
Also they are just completely oblivious that the competition comes from Google, not Apple. Google is disrupting the market by providing free software in exchange of the user's private life - and very surprisingly, people dont mind that. It's not about providing hardware.

Cosmocronos said,

People want, and will buy, something that does what they need and does it in a way they are comfortable with. Some will find that Windows is that product, others will prefer Android etc.
Different needs, different preferences.......

Agree. But increasingly, what people need, want and buy is Android and all the googly-garbage. Unfortunately. And MS is nowhere near turning this around.
Just the marketing of the surface - about productivity. Who *wants* productivity ? I want entertainment, I want something I will connect to ... I dont want something that will let me product useless corporate powerpoints ... I've never felt any attachment to any of my corporate-issued windows laptop.

dopydope said,
The money they have invested in Surface they could have invested it in other areas - if not windows, in other services. The hardware dream is an uninspired and desperate attempt at trying to be like Apple. They just forgot that windows has always been the "cost efficient" solution vs the expensive, desirable Apple products. Nothing is desirable in Windows. And unlike Apple who provides a vertical, integrated stack of hardware and software, MS is at the end of the day just another OEM - they cant differentiate in anything major without disrupting even more their partners.
So this strategy has encouraged partners to look for backup options (chromebooks etc...), wasted a lot of money and effort internally, and damaged their image too (most medias never miss an opportunity for some MS-bashing).
Also they are just completely oblivious that the competition comes from Google, not Apple. Google is disrupting the market by providing free software in exchange of the user's private life - and very surprisingly, people dont mind that. It's not about providing hardware.
Excellent points dopydope!

dopydope said,
The money they have invested in Surface they could have invested it in other areas - if not windows, in other services. The hardware dream is an uninspired and desperate attempt at trying to be like Apple.

If they did that with everything we would have no Xbox because that was just an attempt to be like Sony and Nintendo right? When they see an opportunity they should take it. Following you would lead to the demise of the company, or maybe that's what you want.

dopydope said,
They just forgot that windows has always been the "cost efficient" solution vs the expensive, desirable Apple products. Nothing is desirable in Windows.

Apple has only just become desirable in the tech world recently. They always had great hardware but until the iPhone no one cared or wanted the software. ITunes, iwork, and most everything else is buggy crap that tries to lock you in. Office, Outlook, OneDrive, Excel, PowerPoint, Visual Basic, etc. are VERY good products that are very desired by people even outside of work. Not to mention the massive gaming library and hardware support on Windows. Is none of that desirable? What Apple software is desirable? All I can think of is Final Cut and Logic and there are equally great options on Windows and even Linux.


dopydope said,
So this strategy has encouraged partners to look for backup options (chromebooks etc...), wasted a lot of money and effort internally, and damaged their image too (most medias never miss an opportunity for some MS-bashing).

You can't blame Microsoft for that. They have tried everything for years to stop OEM's from ruining things with preinstalled crapware and terrible hardware. Bashing Microsoft is just 'in style' right now in the tech press and Chromebook's mean nothing until they start selling.

Actually XBox is different. They created an entirely new ecosystem of product, game and services. They tried to be like Nintendo, or Sony ; they had the means to succeed and they did. MSFT will never be like Apple, unless they stop distributing software to OEM ! MS will never have the vertical integration that makes Apple unique, and that integration that allows them to charge a premium for their products and therefore be highly profitable. Without this, Surface is just another PC OEM, with a slightly high-end strategy. OEM are not exactly a highly profitable industry right now, ask Acer how they are doing ! What i'm trying to say is that making devices was never an opportunity, it was just a mistake that will cost them a lot.
---
Now you have a point with (hardcore) gaming making windows an attractive platform, however the market for computing devices is much larger than the hardcore gamers. I would say that iOS/Android/Metro gaming is now much more important, by several orders of magnitude.
Office on the other hand is a bloated piece of corporate software. People "want" it because they know how to use it and there's nothing else out there that works well and is cheaper. Who honestly uses more than 10% of Office functionality (outside the corporate world) ? I think MSFT needs to come up with a free/cheap & simplified version of Office to keep people in their eco-system (i hope that's what they will do with office modern). Back to the point - Apple have always managed to have a "premium" brand, and that makes them desirable.
---
Very good example about crapware. Tried everything ? like what ? OK they came up with the "signature" line. However this is only available in their smallest market : the US. No trace of this anywhere outside the US. You can barely says they tried everything. At best, they had an half-arsed attempt at doing things, with a poor execution.
Chromebooks are a huge threat to MSFT just by the fact that Google has nothing to lose with them, absolutely nothing. Any chromebook sold (even if currently not so many) is harming MS right at the heart. And MSFT currently hasnt got much to fight back.

things I care about:

bigger thinner surface. Make it 12 inches and pack a retina class display with a high refresh and low latency pixel characteristics so that it looks more fluid than anything out there. How about pushing into the 120hz or 240hz territory rather than the standard 60? The market it as the most fluid screen on earth.

It is a given the new ipad will be larger and 10.x inches isn't the perfect size just because apple said so 3 years ago. MSFT needs to innovate and innovation is not releasing an 8 inch tablet two years after everybody. That is called mediocrity.

Better yet. DITCH ARM. go intel and add dual HDMI outs, quad USB ports. And/or as other have said, release the surface book and surface book pro.

neonspark said,

add dual HDMI outs, quad USB ports. And/or as other have said, release the surface book and surface book pro.

This is what the doc is for, quite honestly if you are hooking up that much every time you sit down with your surface, the dock is well worth it.

I've used the RT and the Surface 2 for work now since release and They really do need an x86 chip. They would be perfect with a bay trail atom and an active digitizer. If they don't go x86 for the next generation I'll have to jump ship.

I'd like them to see them expand the line to laptops and all-in-ones. I think if the went into the TV business it would be under the Xbox name.

satorre said,
I'd like them to see them expand the line to laptops and all-in-ones. I think if the went into the TV business it would be under the Xbox name.

Xbox TV... with DVR capabilities in a much smaller, cheaper package than Xbox One...

Corey C said,
Wonder if they are going to try and break into all and one's, or MS Powered TV's.

And powered by Kinect so they can just plug in their XBOXs and be gtg =).

No. Why would someone want a mini version of a pro? A thinner, lighter, more powerful pro would be better for those that want work with desktop applications. Smaller tablets seem to be wear its at, but it seems if that because of form factor or much lower prices.

Astra.Xtreme said,
Surface Pro Mini for $600 and the entire tablet market will be theirs.
You may be on to something. $550 and then all of my iPads will be replaced.

Astra.Xtreme said,
Surface Pro Mini for $600 and the entire tablet market will be theirs.

Maybe. We shall see. Would be nice if the Pros currently would drop a little more in price.

satorre said,
No. Why would someone want a mini version of a pro? A thinner, lighter, more powerful pro would be better for those that want work with desktop applications. Smaller tablets seem to be wear its at, but it seems if that because of form factor or much lower prices.

Well people generally buy tablets because of their portability. The current Surface Pro is more expensive than a nice ultrabook which has considerably more functionality. People buy iPads and Nexus's because they're cheap and light and have enough functionality that people need on the go. A Surface Mini priced slightly higher than an iPad would finally make Microsoft a contender in the tablet market.

299 or it doesn't stand a chance. And if surface mini comes out at 399 which is what I expect, it will fail. it needs to be 199 or cheaper. in fact, do you want to hit a home run? 99. yes. ship a good 99 dollar surface mini and watch it become the best selling 8 inch tablet on earth.

JHBrown said,
You may be on to something. $550 and then all of my iPads will be replaced.

Most iPad users would be able to get their needs from a Windows RT based tablet. They don't need the power of a Pro model.

I think a Surface RT mini with a 4:3 aspect ratio and a reasonable price would sell better. People looking at the Pro want it for its desktop capabilities and thus anything below 10'' is going to be counterproductive.

I do think Microsoft has to update Windows 8.1 to better use potrait mode. Right now it's messy. Obviously Windows 8 wasnt designed for this mode. They need to update it to make the experience intuitive. Starting with letting the tile-based interface scroll horizontally when your screen is horizontal as well. It just works better with the hand.

Astra.Xtreme said,

Well people generally buy tablets because of their portability. The current Surface Pro is more expensive than a nice ultrabook which has considerably more functionality. People buy iPads and Nexus's because they're cheap and light and have enough functionality that people need on the go. A Surface Mini priced slightly higher than an iPad would finally make Microsoft a contender in the tablet market.


Sorry but surface pro is a very competitively priced ultrabook and is better than most if not all.

Crimson Rain said,

Sorry but surface pro is a very competitively priced ultrabook and is better than most if not all.

It is a matter of personal preferences... and needs: I bought my first Tablet, many years ago, as a replacement for my laptop, not a companion of it. Hence I bought a Convertible Tablet; a mini Tablet would be a replacement of my Filofax agenda and in this case a Slate format would be all right.

Crimson Rain said,

Sorry but surface pro is a very competitively priced ultrabook and is better than most if not all.

I have to agree. my surface pro replaced a tablet, a PC and a laptop. the nexus ipad argument is silly for the nexus is basically a movie web device and the ipad, even with office is barely functional as a PC.

however the stupid 10 inch screen on surface is just too small. It is already really heavy so you clearly given up something to get that kind of power. A larger screen would balance the device better allowing it to be thinner by spreading its mass over a larger area. the current one is one fat block.

Ronnet said,

Most iPad users would be able to get their needs from a Windows RT based tablet. They don't need the power of a Pro model.

I think a Surface RT mini with a 4:3 aspect ratio and a reasonable price would sell better. People looking at the Pro want it for its desktop capabilities and thus anything below 10'' is going to be counterproductive.

I do think Microsoft has to update Windows 8.1 to better use potrait mode. Right now it's messy. Obviously Windows 8 wasnt designed for this mode. They need to update it to make the experience intuitive. Starting with letting the tile-based interface scroll horizontally when your screen is horizontal as well. It just works better with the hand.

Did Windows RT sell better than regular Windows for Surface and Surface 2?


aimgator said,

Did Windows RT sell better than regular Windows for Surface and Surface 2?


what you call "regular" windows was never on any surface line device. It was part of the pro line which is not comparable so there is no way to compare what you're asking.

MSFT should have done what you said: make a surface device with an intel chip, but they never did. the pro model was the only one blessed with the intel chip and it likely sold more but they are aimed at different audiences.

Paul Thurrott is talking about a 13" Surface Pro Book (ultrabook). I think there'd definitely be A LOT of interest in THAT. I just want it to have LTE.

Cosmocronos said,

It is a matter of personal preferences... and needs: I bought my first Tablet, many years ago, as a replacement for my laptop, not a companion of it. Hence I bought a Convertible Tablet; a mini Tablet would be a replacement of my Filofax agenda and in this case a Slate format would be all right.

So how is surface worse than other similar class ultrabooks?

People say MBA is the best. Well guess what, surface pro has much better display, ecosystem, faster ssd, mini displayport, tablet form factor (if you prefer), touch, Wacom digitizer etc. So how is it worse?

neonspark said,
299 or it doesn't stand a chance. And if surface mini comes out at 399 which is what I expect, it will fail. it needs to be 199 or cheaper. in fact, do you want to hit a home run? 99. yes. ship a good 99 dollar surface mini and watch it become the best selling 8 inch tablet on earth.
This I agree with. I've said it many times, Microsoft needs aggressive pricing. It's one reason the Surface has failed to reach popularity. They keep trying to price these as though they have the popularity of an iPad.

Crimson Rain said,

Sorry but surface pro is a very competitively priced ultrabook and is better than most if not all.

The Surface isn't an ultrabook... It's a tablet that tries to be an ultrabook with it's crappy keyboard. The Lenovo Yoga 2 is the same price and will run circles around it. The Asus Vivobook and Zenbook are also better options for people that want to be productive. My point being that there are much better options out there and going by the sales figures, I think people have figured that out.

Astra.Xtreme said,

The Surface isn't an ultrabook... It's a tablet that tries to be an ultrabook with it's crappy keyboard. The Lenovo Yoga 2 is the same price and will run circles around it. The Asus Vivobook and Zenbook are also better options for people that want to be productive. My point being that there are much better options out there and going by the sales figures, I think people have figured that out.

You are skipping the people that want or need a quality Stylus. People that design and draw for a living are buying them.

Also the dig about the 'crappy keyboard', you do realize you can use any keyboard, most users I know have their favorite plug in or slim Bluetooth keyboard and don't use the touch cover keyboard.

aimgator said,

Did Windows RT sell better than regular Windows for Surface and Surface 2?


We will never know since Surface and Surface 2 only come with RT... But I think at Surface's size there still is a benefit to having 'full' Windows. If only they could make them in a thin enough package that they're actually competitive with iPad as a tablet....

But we're talking about a Surface Mini here. A device that you hold with one hand. Something that is purely made for consumption. Perhaps for some users there may come a moment where they would want to run that one desktop app. But in general I think iPad and Android tablets are selling because in this small formfactor they do not need their desktop applications.

Astra.Xtreme said,
The Surface isn't an ultrabook... It's a tablet that tries to be an ultrabook with it's crappy keyboard.

Never liked the KB myself. The complete touch KB for the surface is junk IMO. The mechanical keys KB is ok.

Astra.Xtreme said,

The Surface isn't an ultrabook... It's a tablet that tries to be an ultrabook with it's crappy keyboard. The Lenovo Yoga 2 is the same price and will run circles around it. The Asus Vivobook and Zenbook are also better options for people that want to be productive. My point being that there are much better options out there and going by the sales figures, I think people have figured that out.


Really? The type keyboard is bad?
And you are saying yoga 2 is better? lol. The weight and thickness are killing me...

Crimson Rain said,

Really? The type keyboard is bad?
And you are saying yoga 2 is better? lol. The weight and thickness are killing me...

Uhh... the Lenovo is 0.1" thicker and 1 lb heavier... Drama queen much?

And yes the keyboards available are bad because they can only be used on flat surfaces. What it needs is a rigid hinge so that it could be used in your lap. The mechanical keyboard is decent, but not as nice as a regular keyboard on an ultrabook.

Surface pro is already thick and heavy. Lenovo one is ever more lol. If anything, I'd want it to be 0.5lb lighter; not 1.0 lb heavier...

TIL: regular keyboards are better than mechanical.

Crimson Rain said,
Surface pro is already thick and heavy. Lenovo one is ever more lol. If anything, I'd want it to be 0.5lb lighter; not 1.0 lb heavier...

TIL: regular keyboards are better than mechanical.

Not sure why you're making a fuss over 1 lb. The Lenovo is also a 13.3", so the extra weight is completely justified.

Astra.Xtreme said,

Not sure why you're making a fuss over 1 lb. The Lenovo is also a 13.3", so the extra weight is completely justified.

Well I guess then that a Surface Pro 2 and Lenovo Yoga 2 comparison is off the mark. Different devices aimed at different consumers. A 13'' Lenovo Ultrabook should be compared to a 13'' Surface Ultrabook.

Ronnet said,

Well I guess then that a Surface Pro 2 and Lenovo Yoga 2 comparison is off the mark. Different devices aimed at different consumers. A 13'' Lenovo Ultrabook should be compared to a 13'' Surface Ultrabook.

Yeah because a 13" Surface exists, right? Oh wait...

Astra.Xtreme said,

Yeah because a 13" Surface exists, right? Oh wait...

My point exactly. But with a little luck a 13'' Surface will be announced soon.

Ronnet said,

My point exactly. But with a little luck a 13'' Surface will be announced soon.

That would be nice. Give it a rigid keyboard option and price it at $999 or less and it'll be a winner.

neonspark said,
299 or it doesn't stand a chance. And if surface mini comes out at 399 which is what I expect, it will fail. it needs to be 199 or cheaper. in fact, do you want to hit a home run? 99. yes. ship a good 99 dollar surface mini and watch it become the best selling 8 inch tablet on earth.

I think for every OEM that sells a chromebook as well they should drop the price 50 dollars... ;).

Astra.Xtreme said,

Not sure why you're making a fuss over 1 lb. The Lenovo is also a 13.3", so the extra weight is completely justified.


Then why are you comparing them?!

I don't give a rats ass about 13" screens. It is still too small to work on (for me). If I have to work on small screen, I'd rather take surface which is smaller and provides better mobility. When I need bigger screen, I can use displayport out. And people are running 4+ monitors with surface...

Astra.Xtreme said,
Surface Pro Mini for $600 and the entire tablet market will be theirs.
Would have to support being plugged in while also serving as a USB hub. If they did that, supported some sort of video out and miracast... game over. On device to rule them all. Well, a really decent graphics processor would do wonders as well.

Crimson Rain said,

Then why are you comparing them?!

I don't give a rats ass about 13" screens. It is still too small to work on (for me). If I have to work on small screen, I'd rather take surface which is smaller and provides better mobility. When I need bigger screen, I can use displayport out. And people are running 4+ monitors with surface...

Cool story... You do know what the point of a comparison is, right? If two products are identical, there's nothing to compare...

Here, I'll put it in simpler terms for you. Price is one of the biggest factors in what people purchase. With many similar choices, what product will give you the most for your money? I've provided very clear details on why this comparison makes sense...

Astra.Xtreme said,
That would be nice. Give it a rigid keyboard option and price it at $999 or less and it'll be a winner.

Agreed. It sucks showing someone a 128GB Surface Pro 2... then mentioning the keyboard. :/

JHBrown said,
This I agree with. I've said it many times, Microsoft needs aggressive pricing. It's one reason the Surface has failed to reach popularity. They keep trying to price these as though they have the popularity of an iPad.

seriously? $99,-??? You DO realize what you're asking, aren't you?
If you want a tablet that cheap, buy one of those Android ones. Than you'll see why quality makes a difference. And the absence of a proper digitizer... ;-)

Crimson Rain said,

So how is surface worse than other similar class ultrabooks?

People say MBA is the best. Well guess what, surface pro has much better display, ecosystem, faster ssd, mini displayport, tablet form factor (if you prefer), touch, Wacom digitizer etc. So how is it worse?


Did I say it is worse? My point is that there are people who need/ prefer a different format and/or a bigger display. I did not criticized the Surface, just said that a Slate with 10" display is not an option for my personal needs/ preferences. Others could also have budget limits.

neonspark said,
299 or it doesn't ship a good 99 dollar surface mini and watch it become the best selling 8 inch tablet on earth.

That's really not that bold of a prediction, 99 dollars for a high tech 8" tablet with built in digitizer would sell well? Thing is, if MS was going to put that much effort into building the thing there is no way it's coming out for 99 dollars (unless it wound up being a worthless plastic piece of dog poo.) that's really just a foolish pipe dream.

You can't even get a Kindle white paper for $99. Come on now, let's use some common sense here. My guess is MS is going to over price the damn thing as they always do and they will continue to make the same pricing mistakes that have made in the past. I would be pleasantly surprised if it hit the market for 249.00

my guess, with RT on it: 299,= to 349,=

So roughly half a Surface 2. Ther ARM CPU and smaller screen will lower the price, but the digitizer will drive the price up again.

When it's above that, it will be a hit or miss in the marketplace.
Time will tell......

Intel provides the hardware, they dont make CBs. Companies like LG, Lenovo, and others do. Intel has been busy with MS and CBs it seems.

dopydope said,
busy making chromebooks ....

You don't have to be very busy to make 8 Chromebooks. Or is it 7? That's how many have sold, isn't it?

Major_Plonquer said,
You don't have to be very busy to make 8 Chromebooks. Or is it 7? That's how many have sold, isn't it?

Nice trolling

Major_Plonquer said,

You don't have to be very busy to make 8 Chromebooks. Or is it 7? That's how many have sold, isn't it?

Aren't they selling relatively great in the USA? I wouldn't know since I'm from Europe and I have yet to see one in the wild. Or in stores for that matter...

Ronnet said,

Aren't they selling relatively great in the USA? I wouldn't know since I'm from Europe and I have yet to see one in the wild. Or in stores for that matter...


They are selling mostly because average people don't know any better. Once they use it for a few hours at home, most of them return it.

Ronnet said,

Aren't they selling relatively great in the USA? I wouldn't know since I'm from Europe and I have yet to see one in the wild. Or in stores for that matter...

No numbers have been released yet. I know several schools and other businesses use them. There are also several members here that use and like them as well. I know a couple people who have them and who like them.

And OEMs must see a value in them since several are making them currently and several more have been announced. And who knows what will happen when Lenovo starts making them since they are the biggest PC maker ATM.

If that was true, OEM would stop making them. Yet they keep announcing new models and increase their marketing budgets. Every single PC maker now have multiple chromebooks in their lineups. Regarding presence in Europe, at my local PC world in London there is a relatively big "Google" store in store, with many chromebooks on display, and a dedicated staff member. Surface and other regular PCs are just a mess.

Because they are afraid of Microsoft taking over whatever is left after ipads/tablets eating up the market.

To be honest, most OEMs will simply leave the PC business and go do something else in a few years. Only a few of them can compete in tablet space...

dopydope said,
busy making chromebooks ....

let me check the market share of chromebooks? oh, I can't because they don't register even in the most generous stats.

windows phone is more of a threat to android than chromebooks are to windows. get over that failed google project. it will never succeed.

Paul Thurrott is talking about a 13" Surface Pro Book (ultrabook). Now THAT would be sweet... if only they'd add LTE to it.

I'm ready, willing, and able to buy a Surface ultrabook... but I want LTE d*mnit! If they don't give me LTE, then I'll buy the Surface 2 LTE instead.

neonspark said,

let me check the market share of chromebooks? oh, I can't because they don't register even in the most generous stats.

windows phone is more of a threat to android than chromebooks are to windows. get over that failed google project. it will never succeed.

It's funny because it was the same thing that people said over and over again when the iPhone and Android came out. Check how that worked out for MS. The fact that every single OEM actively develops Chromebooks is telling.
I stay away from any of the Google garbage personally as I value my private life and i dont want to be controlled by whatever company pays Google the most for my data. I'm just realistic that MS lost the battle for the next generation of computing, and it seems that nobody sees it, even at MS.

cybersaurusrex said,
Paul Thurrott is talking about a 13" Surface Pro Book (ultrabook).

Is that it ? MS will revive the PC industry and save their whole business model by selling yet another laptop with that same windows on it. Fantastic.
Larry Page, Schmidt and all the ********* at Google must be having a blast right now. This is just another epic day for them.

Wtf?

For millions of people an ultrabook is still necessary. Are you suggesting Chromebooks instead, cos really they are too limited for most people. Or a Android tablet, cos sure they are good for many things, but again a lot of people do need a laptop. Nobody needs to revive the laptop market, things have moved on, MS and every other OEM accepts that, sales will never be as high as some people dumb down with a tablet or Chromebook, but the market is still massive for laptops and we need more better built PC ones to compete with the frankly best in class MacBook.

I'd have been interested in a Surface ultrabook if there'd been one when I got my last laptop. Tempting as the Surface Pro was, for my uses a proper keyboard, touchpad in a clamsheel design was more important.

Ronnet said,
Aren't they selling relatively great in the USA? I wouldn't know since I'm from Europe and I have yet to see one in the wild. Or in stores for that matter...
In all honesty they've sold well in schools... because schools make horrible tech decisions.

They're bad because you're limited to Google Docs, which sucks, for papers/presentations/etc. It's slow and buggy. Plus, when they eventually go to work, they'll have to learn MS Office from scratch. The students from schools which made better tech decisions will have a leg up.

techbeck said,
Why are they bad in schools? There is little to no maintenance on them. Plug them in and go.

At our school we find chromebooks work great. I wouldnt want to buy one in real life but for school stuff it works just fine =). Especially if you are a GAfE school.

Hambone72 said,
They're bad because you're limited to Google Docs, which sucks, for papers/presentations/etc. It's slow and buggy. Plus, when they eventually go to work, they'll have to learn MS Office from scratch. The students from schools which made better tech decisions will have a leg up.

Lots of schools cannot afford new text books, which can be more expensive than CBs, let alone MS office and MS Windows. Most students in grade school will only use the basics so Google Docs will be fine for them.

techbeck said,
Why are they bad in schools? There is little to no maintenance on them. Plug them in and go.

You do realize Google's tracking/monitoring break several privacy concerns and laws, especially where students and children are concerned?

Some schools are starting to block access to Google services.

TheShark said,
Wtf?

For millions of people an ultrabook is still necessary. Are you suggesting Chromebooks instead, cos really they are too limited for most people. Or a Android tablet, cos sure they are good for many things, but again a lot of people do need a laptop. Nobody needs to revive the laptop market, things have moved on, MS and every other OEM accepts that, sales will never be as high as some people dumb down with a tablet or Chromebook, but the market is still massive for laptops and we need more better built PC ones to compete with the frankly best in class MacBook.

I'd have been interested in a Surface ultrabook if there'd been one when I got my last laptop. Tempting as the Surface Pro was, for my uses a proper keyboard, touchpad in a clamsheel design was more important.

Ok i may have my panties in a twist today since that Intel/Google chromebook announcement :)
I'm not saying chromebooks replace ultrabooks. I'm just highlighting that computing needs have massively shifted - where before everything was PC-centric, now the average person can live without a PC. Computing now spreads onto a variety of devices, and MS only captures a tiny fraction of it. Combine this with trends like BYOD in the enterprise, and the relevance of MS is greatly reduced.
- kids in school working on chromebooks are growing outside the MS ecosystem
- more and more professionals use iPads etc for a growing part of their worktime
- technology will evolve even further, and i think tablets and smartphones will take an even bigger part in the life of a professional (tablet docked with keyboard and possibly external screen for desk use)

all i'm saying is, from the point of view of a guy who made his career on MS technologies, we're pretty much f00ked !

techbeck said,
Why are they bad in schools? There is little to no maintenance on them. Plug them in and go.
As capital investment it is a waste of money. You're much better off buying a Windows machine as it opens up that asset to being much more useful overall.

And this horribly naïve idea about "Plug them in and go." Look, I've been managing Windows machines for decades. If you're requirement is accessing web based assets *only* you can add a machine to a domain and use a GPO to install Chrome via MSI and you're all done.

The use case that Chromebooks exist in is easily filled by a Windows machine. But you get the added advantage of local storage, network storage, and nearly limitless software and hardware options. It's stilly.

Scabrat said,
At our school we find chromebooks work great. I wouldnt want to buy one in real life but for school stuff it works just fine =). Especially if you are a GAfE school.
The reason you wouldn't buy one in RL is because you know as a capital investment the return would be lower than a Mac or a Windows machine.

techbeck said,
Google recently stopped scanning email in their Apps for Education program. And this was turned off by default anyway.

Only after intense pressure from Microsoft with Bing In The Classroom and Scroogled.

And, you know, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998.

rfirth said,

Only after intense pressure from Microsoft with Bing In The Classroom and Scroogled.

And, you know, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998.

Does it matter why? The fact is, they did it. And this is how things work and have always worked.

techbeck said,

Does it matter why? The fact is, they did it. And this is how things work and have always worked.

I think it matters why. Because they didnt do it out of the goodness of their own hearts. They got pressured into it. The reason behind things is often as important as the result itself, in my opinion anyways =). So that is why I care about it.

But you are right, Google did do it =). So good for them.

Scabrat said,

I think it matters why. Because they didnt do it out of the goodness of their own hearts. They got pressured into it. The reason behind things is often as important as the result itself, in my opinion anyways =). So that is why I care about it.

But you are right, Google did do it =). So good for them.

And I can go on and on about the pressure MS received from Win8 and X1 and the changes they made/are making because of it. But when it is all said and done, what matters is the company receiving the pressure is listening.

techbeck said,

And I can go on and on about the pressure MS received from Win8 and X1 and the changes they made/are making because of it. But when it is all said and done, what matters is the company receiving the pressure is listening.

I agree with you =). I just think its also important to know what pressure was applied as well.

techbeck said,
Intel has been busy.

I am excited about the next Atom chip =). Give me one of those, 4-8 gigs of RAM, and a dedicated graphics card in a 10-11 inch tablet form and I buy it! =)

techbeck said,
And I can go on and on about the pressure MS received from Win8 and X1 and the changes they made/are making because of it. But when it is all said and done, what matters is the company receiving the pressure is listening.
It wasn't public pressure. It was admitting in a lawsuit that they had the practice and finally changing it.

http://safegov.org/2014/1/31/g...-in-its-free-education-apps

Making any comparison between Windows 8 -> 8.1/update 1/update 2 feature changes and Google stopping a borderline illegal practice is kinda childish

dopydope said,

Is that it ? MS will revive the PC industry and save their whole business model by selling yet another laptop with that same windows on it. Fantastic.
Larry Page, Schmidt and all the ********* at Google must be having a blast right now. This is just another epic day for them.

so MS notebook bad...
But Apple notebook good???

MrHumpty said,
It wasn't public pressure. It was admitting in a lawsuit that they had the practice and finally changing it.

I didnt say public pressure made Google change. I agree it was pressure in general that did. Read again.


Making any comparison between Windows 8 -> 8.1/update 1/update 2 feature changes and Google stopping a borderline illegal practice is kinda childish

Childish? Really? Your definition of childish must be different than most. Its called having a convo and giving an example of how another company was pressured to change their ways as well.

techbeck said,

Childish? Really? Your definition of childish must be different than most. Its called having a convo and giving an example of how another company was pressured to change their ways as well.

You're comparing a company changing the color of a button because people don't like it to another company changing a policy because they were in flagrant violation of federal law for over a decade.

Huge difference. You might as well compare the Coca Cola company changing back to Classic Coke from New Coke to another company changing policies regarding their continuous murder of innocent endangered baby seals. Completely different.

I was generalizing in my reply that companies are pressured all sorts of ways to change their policies and using MS as an example of another form of pressure. Doesnt matter where it comes from as long as people are listening. Companies like to think they know best but often, they dont and need to be corrected.

That is all.

Edited by techbeck, May 8 2014, 10:39pm :

techbeck said,
I didnt say public pressure made Google change. I agree it was pressure in general that did. Read again.

Childish? Really? Your definition of childish must be different than most. Its called having a convo and giving an example of how another company was pressured to change their ways as well.

One was a legal requirement. The other was public sentiment? Are you really going to just generalize both as "pressure" to make the case that they are similar? That is childish as it is just an unrealistic rationalization to attempt to prove your side of an argument.

Seriously you can try and repeat the pressure argument all you want. The underlying pressure you are referring to is legal pressure brought forth by a Class Action lawsuit. It is not an assumption... it is a tearing apart of your argument.

Read my comment above. It was a generalization that who I was originally chatting with got, understood, and agreed to. It is you and others that dont get it.

MrHumpty said,
Seriously you can try and repeat the pressure argument all you want. The underlying pressure you are referring to is legal pressure brought forth by a Class Action lawsuit.

I never disputed it was legal pressure. I agreed to in in FACT. Read again


It is not an assumption... it is a tearing apart of your argument.

Where did I say it was an assumption? In FACT, I agreed to the user who Was talking to that it was legal action. Go back and understand before posting.

I never said the pressure was similar. You said I did.

Scabrat said,

I am excited about the next Atom chip =). Give me one of those, 4-8 gigs of RAM, and a dedicated graphics card in a 10-11 inch tablet form and I buy it! =)

That would be nice. Price would have to be right as well. Plus, increase in HD space would be nice.

techbeck said,

That would be nice. Price would have to be right as well. Plus, increase in HD space would be nice.

Yeah, HD space was a killer for me on my 32 gig DV8P. But, I got my hands on an OEM image so I could fresh install my Win 8.1 (non-pro) OS and got my space back =).

Wont go below 64 gigs again. But if it had GPS the tablet would be near perfect. If it had a dedicated graphics and 4 gigs of RAM, it would be the best tablet ever I think. Atoms have come a long ways... =)

Scabrat said,
And for the price... That is key for me ;).

Agreed. That and if I am in the market for a new system. Just bought a new laptop 1.5 years ago and no reason to upgrade....yet :)

techbeck said,

Agreed. That and if I am in the market for a new system. Just bought a new laptop 1.5 years ago and no reason to upgrade....yet :)

Yeah, that is true =). I have a desktop but am supporting a Windows Tablet with Bluetooth mouse and keyboard for my on the run device =). My laptop was like 4-5 years old ;).

Scabrat said,
Yeah, that is true =). I have a desktop but am supporting a Windows Tablet with Bluetooth mouse and keyboard for my on the run device =). My laptop was like 4-5 years old ;).

I use an S Pro at work and have an S Pro 2 sitting on my desk. Been sitting there for a couple months unboxed. No time to set it up.

My old laptop was a M1330 XPS from dell. Known video issues. Onboard display worked when it wanted but HDMI still works great so I connect it to my TV .

techbeck said,

I use an S Pro at work and have an S Pro 2 sitting on my desk. Been sitting there for a couple months unboxed. No time to set it up.

My old laptop was a M1330 XPS from dell. Known video issues. Onboard display worked when it wanted but HDMI still works great so I connect it to my TV .

Thats a good idea =). Home media entertainment laptop. I am hoping Miricast catches on more for better wireless displays on things that arent Apple or Google devices =).