Editorial

Microsoft has only itself to blame for Kinect's failure

When Microsoft conducts a postmortem on Kinect, it will be easy to blame the sensor’s failure on the fact that it increased the Xbox One’s price by $100. While that may be partially true, one of the biggest problems boils down to Microsoft not giving consumers a reason to want Kinect.

From the day Microsoft announced the Xbox One and its then-mandatory sensor on May 21, 2013, it proclaimed Kinect would work with the console like “magic.” Vague promises were made about how the two being bundled together would redefine television, yet the only real benefit in terms of non-gaming capabilities so far has been the integrated infrared blaster serving as a capable universal remote. With a version of the Xbox One without Kinect now scheduled for release next month, it’s not clear if there will be any more significant benefits going forward.

Microsoft touted the TV features of Kinect, but what are they beyond the integrated IR blaster?

A major aspect of Microsoft’s hype for the bundled sensor when it was announced regarded several TV shows and movies the company is developing for both the Xbox One and Xbox 360. According to recent statements by Microsoft officials, those shows and movies will include interactive features, but it’s not clear what – if any – will be exclusive to Kinect. Given that the sensor will soon be unbundled from the base Xbox One package, it seems unlikely Kinect will be a major part of interacting with the shows or movies.

On the gaming front, Kinect’s formerly mandatory inclusion with the Xbox One is perhaps even more confusing.

At launch, the Xbox One had only one Kinect-exclusive game, the abysmal “Fighter Within,” though Microsoft’s Xbox Fitness app was also available. Since then, only two games requiring Kinect have been released for Xbox One, “Zumba World Fitness” and “Kinect Sports Rivals.” The latter title is the only announced first-party game that requires the sensor – a fact that seems either incredibly short-sighted for a company as big as Microsoft or an indication that it had no intention of providing any major development resources to support Kinect.

And while Microsoft promoted Kinect by saying it would make controller-focused games better, few games used the sensor in any appreciable way. At best, Kinect features seem like fun gimmicks for a day or two, such as head tracking in “Forza Motorsport 5.” For most games, however, Kinect features seem entirely unnecessary, such as yelling at catapults to fire in “Ryse: Son of Rome” instead of simply holding down a button.

Microsoft’s failure to develop any first-party Kinect games in time for the Xbox One’s launch comes after it seemingly gave up on the Xbox 360 version of the sensor. Since the start of 2013, only one Kinect-required game, “Zumba Fitness: World Party,” has been released for the Xbox 360. In the same time frame, only five more Xbox 360 games have had Kinect support of any kind, mostly in extremely minor roles.

In retrospect, Microsoft comes across like a snake oil salesman, peddling a product that had no real long-term viability. Microsoft hamstrung itself against Sony by bundling a product that it doesn’t have a clear vision for, and now millions of Xbox One owners have a Kinect sensor whether they want it or not.

Saying an Xbox One with Kinect can’t compete with the PlayStation 4 because of the $100 premium Microsoft placed on it is an inherently misleading argument, as it conflates cost with worth. In terms of cost, a teardown of Xbox One’s parts indicates Kinect almost certainly accounts for close to $100 of parts. As with any product or service, however, its worth is defined by what consumers are willing to pay for it. In retrospect, Microsoft comes across like a snake oil salesman, peddling a product that had no long-term viability.

Microsoft had three years to add more features to the new version of its Kinect sensor, and yet the only major feature added was an IR blaster. While the sensor offers improvements in both voice and motion tracking compared to its Xbox 360 counterpart, there aren’t any appreciable improvements in usage for either games or TV content.

If developers were supposed to be encouraged by the Kinect sensor, Microsoft has certainly done nothing to entice them. Microsoft did a great job evolving its vision for the Xbox 360 as its lifespan went on, yet the Xbox One bundled with Kinect doesn’t even appear to have a clear Microsoft roadmap to begin with – at least not one it’s willing to commit to.

Kinect is a great product in theory, as several recent editorials from a variety of news outlets proclaiming it as the “future” have argued, but if Microsoft’s Xbox management doesn’t care, why should anyone else?

Images via Microsoft

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107 Comments

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The only thing that's going to make the Kinect fail this generation is their removing it as a required device and fragmenting the market. Less people with the device means less developers will make things for it. That simple.

The only people who should be blamed for Kinect's failure (assuming it will fail) is the community being so resistant to it.

Agreed!

If anything they should have made a version of it for the PC. At $100 it makes for an ideal webcam replacement with about 1 million extra uses!

Wouldn't it be awesome if we used kinect gestures to log in to Windows, hotmail or even Neowin?

Microsoft needs to develop apps that take advantage of kinect for both Xbox and PC

Riva said,
Apparently the author didn't notice how much the Kinect sold with the X360

The author does know. The author is referring to the more timely news issue, however, which this article is clearly about :)

On the topic of the Xbox 360 version, however: It sold like hotcakes before fizzling out. I also mention how only one game has been released that requires Kinect for the Xbox 360 since the start of 2013. As I stated in the last paragraph, Kinect is a great idea in theory, but if Microsoft doesn't support it, who's going to?

I just wish microsoft released the XB1 as the same as the 360 but more powerful, they should have buckled down on the games and had spec's such as all games would be 1080p as standard. I can't believe the resolutions we're getting where as my PC is sitting there happily churning out resolutions that are greater, its not even running a fast GPU.

They should have Left out the media crap, the HDMI passthrough is absolute rubbish as is the bluray player.

Lifted the UI from the 360 and put it on the XB1, the UI/menu system is hideous, i hate having to load up the friends app, it was so much easier from the xbox menu by hitting the xbox button on the controller.

Left out the kinnect and had it as an optional extra, i love the kinnect and can see great potential as soon as someone thinks up some killer games for it.

So far the whole Xbox1 experience for me has been really poor and is pushing me more and more to just switch over to the PS4.

REM2000 said,
.....

So you would have preferred to keep the console wars going the same as they have for the last 30 years?

You belong with PS4 then.

There are those of us who see the future, and our future is a Kinected ONE.

I think that this article was really well written and well researched.

MS has some great technology with the Kinect, few would deny that. But they really fumbled on execution. Perhaps if PS4 wasn't there at the $100 cheaper price point as a thorn festering in MS's side, the Kinect would have had an opportunity to grow as developers became more familiar with it. That didn't happen...MS should have known that would not happen (especially once the PS4 price point was announced to be $100 less). The best MS could have done is release a real knock out gem of a title that feature the Kinect in the most brilliant way possible...but instead we have another sports game and another work out game *yawn*. They couldn't wait any longer to sit and fester in the market not competing directly with the PS4 on price point (because we've all seen that they aren't competing on performance, really). MS knows whats coming in the next year, probably two years, and they are not seeing a knock-out gem of a kinect-only game being developed and so they made the right call and pulled the Kinect form the line-up.

Agree with most of your point, unbundling it is the right call. MS need the numbers of console to get developers taking Kinect seriously. Although it's a hit and miss, Titanfall was all about the cloud and huge point for MS sticking to the plan. However, Kinect application is still nowhere in sight. Kinect need that application push that would show the potential. Unfortunately, unbundling it will make that even harder. Very very tough call indeed

I'm getting really tired of these stupid editorials. Just stick to news please.

If you really think "Kinect" is the failure here and not simply the 'price point' or 'bundling' then you're unaware of the innovational success Kinect has in non-consumer industries. Particularly in engineering and healthcare. Just RECENTLY Kinect got approved by FDA to treat stroke patients:
http://www.wpcentral.com/kinec...d-fda-treat-stroke-patients

Kinect is not a failure and it DOES have long-term viability. It's the bundle that failed.

Once again, a gamer-center opinion piece. Do you know what? I could not care less about Xbox as a gaming platform! I hate console gaming. I bought the Xbox One for everything BUT gaming. The Kinect was a primary feature that drew me to purchase my first console. I KNEW that features exploiting the voice and motion control would still be in relative infancy. But I bought it because of its potential. The entire Xbox One platform is unique and new, so it is a given that there will be development and growing pains. I get that. Feedback from users (especially non-gamers) is crucial to really pushing how much more interactive this device can become.

I would wager that those whining about that $100USD price gap are the same ones that griped about the disappearance of both XB360 Core (killed simultaneously with XB1's launch) and the old $99USD XB360 deal (designed around that killed XB360 Core). As much as Jim Cramer's comments about frugality got laughed at, he's right - the consumer IS hunkering down and, by and large, spending less, as well as insisting on racing to the bottom.

My own comments about the PS4's lack of movement from PS3 (in general terms) got laughed at as well - however, as much as they got laughed at, did anyone come up with a comeback? Aside from hardware changes (and the differences each made in terms of gaming), exactly what got added in terms of functionality from PS3 to PS4? Also, what is the price difference between PS3 and PS4 - today? (Further, what was the difference at launch?) The differences between XB360 and XB1 (aside from Kinect) are many - the biggest is, in fact, a feature that PS4 lacks; HDMI-inline (which no other console has). HDMI-inline+Kinect enables greater leveraging of both - instead of just recording gameplay snippets, I can record snippets from my Tivo without recording the entire show, shoot the snippet to my PC for editing (using my video editing tool of choice), then upload the edited snippet anywhere. (YouTube. Facebook. TwitchTV. What-have-you.) Extra required hardware OR software - none. XB360 lacks wireless LAN support - It's an extra-cost option (and even pricier if you want wireless-N); on the other hand, XB1 includes wireless-N as bog-standard. Neither PS3 or PS4 includes HDMI-inline - even as an option. However, more and more users are insisting on the "cheap" option, if they are buying next-gen at all.

Robert Wade said,
Once again, a gamer-center opinion piece. Do you know what? I could not care less about Xbox as a gaming platform! I hate console gaming. I bought the Xbox One for everything BUT gaming. <snip>

I don't really know why you're complaining.

1. The Xbox One is a gamer platform.
2. The Kinect got bundled with the XBox one.
3. Whether you like it or not, you cannot throw a stick without hitting the word "games" or "entertainment" in any xbox one general description.
4. Getting the Kinect unbundled from the xbox one (and all those nasty games) sounds like your cup of tea.

So, really, why fight it? Now the Kinect can really continue down the road of turning your home into an automation central without being tied to all that "games" fluff.

ok but really, who cares, kinect is not the next big thing. it is VR glasses. so instead of getting distracted by it, they need to focus their RD there.

neonspark said,
ok but really, who cares, kinect is not the next big thing. it is VR glasses. so instead of getting distracted by it, they need to focus their RD there.

Im not quite sure about VR. After all, the VR-hype has been present every single decades since the 80's.

VR glasses will flop just like 3d glasses for TVs. It's all about the overall 3d experience like they Xbox already demonstrated with the gaming experience going outside the TV onto the walls... and then going forward it will be more so holograms and 3d projection I think.

The way I see it, Kinect will be in for the long run. I know that in order for technology or new user interface to improve requires trial and error. Kinect is still at infancy and requires $100 more on Xbox but the potential for "Minority Report", medical, gaming or even watching TV is almost there. Even Sony is doing the PS Eye thing. Kinect or similar gesture based UI will be the next thing. Waving arm and shouting command to Kinect is just the beginning. If no one sees this future, then I am afraid 20 years to the future we still use mouse and keyboard.

LightEco said,
I wonder if Microsoft just ate the $100 and sold the whole bundle at $400 how many people would be complaining.

don't listen to these doom and gloom. These guys has no idea about sale. if they want to boost the sale, they have to sell the base with $100 cheaper price tag to beat PS4 price tag. then they will find out a way to sell Kinect later on. couple of Hot Kinect title should be enough to make people want to buy Kinect for $99 possibly bundled with a good game.

LightEco said,
I wonder if Microsoft just ate the $100 and sold the whole bundle at $400 how many people would be complaining.

Just as many, they would just fine something else to complain about. :)

It's the internet. People blindly complain about everything because they think they know everything about everything.

Yep - sell the Xbox One with the Kinect as required equipment, put little to no effort into developing, or supporting development by others, of games that use Kinect.

Insert trollface here.

They actually provided quite some support for it. The developers were most likely just waiting for the numbers to come in.

To each his/her own I guess when I comes to feelings on Kinect.

I personally love Kinect for everything outside of motion controlled gaming to be honest.


After kinect for windows and its SDK announced I was sure that kinect never going to go away and it only gets better. You can call it failure all you want but right now thousands of non-gaming companies working on implementation of kinect in different businesses. Shopping, healthcare and interactive content makers are few example. Let alone gaming. This article has no point

Brony said,
Kinect for PC is DOA and it is the second attempt from part of MS.

you don't know what you talking about so I wont bother explaining it to you

trojan_market said,

you don't know what you talking about so I wont bother explaining it to you

Since it is not about me, neither about you or your self delusion, it is about Kinect SDK. The first Kinect SDK failed, yes failed! completely fail. And the second one is just following the same route.

Though I probably wouldn't of wanted a Kinect if I had the option to buy it separately, I like having it at home.

For the most part, it works great when I am eating, have dirty hands and want to tell Netflix to pause or start up again. Xbox on works, xbox turn off works, it makes my life easier.

I am all about the options, so i think selling it separately is great for people and it will allow for more sales. My biggest concern is that at the end of the day I have this product and I hope they don't just abandon it. I hope they improve on it and make it as great as they imagined it.... because if they abandon it, I will lose trust in Microsoft.

Kinect is fine, I think the biggest problem with most people is over expectations. MS had a vision and people hearing that vision topped it off with their perfect rendition of that same vision and since it wasn't met it's now considered a failure.

I personally can't see how Kinect is a failure, I love the device. But, then again, I tend to use it for what I can, when I can, and not whine about it on the internet. Hell, the thing only cost 150 bucks, I wasted that the other day when I wrecked my AR Drone. Hmmm, perhaps the AR Drone is a failure. (never really thought about it that way, perhaps it is...)

uxo22 said,
Kinect is fine, I think the biggest problem with most people is over expectations. MS had a vision and people hearing that vision topped it off with their perfect rendition of that same vision and since it wasn't met it's now considered a failure.

I personally can't see how Kinect is a failure, I love the device. But, then again, I tend to use it for what I can, when I can, and not whine about it on the internet. Hell, the thing only cost 150 bucks, I wasted that the other day when I wrecked my AR Drone. Hmmm, perhaps the AR Drone is a failure. (never really thought about it that way, perhaps it is...)

Kinect has been on the market for 4 years now. There hasn't been a single, not a single game for the Xbox One platform yet to show the full potential of it. Even kinect sports failed.

Not sure how people don't realize it's a failure when Microsoft itself decided to remove it from the Xbox and offer a console SKU without it, when before they were saying how Kinect is the future.

They even said they wouldn't release one without it and now they did.

stevan said,

Kinect has been on the market for 4 years now. There hasn't been a single, not a single game for the Xbox One platform yet to show the full potential of it. Even kinect sports failed.

Not sure how people don't realize it's a failure when Microsoft itself decided to remove it from the Xbox and offer a console SKU without it, when before they were saying how Kinect is the future.

They even said they wouldn't release one without it and now they did.

Okay, I didn't and still don't think Kinect sports failed. I really don't understand where you people get off calling something a fail. Is there a set number of games that Kinect Sports need to sell to not be a fail? If so, what is that number? What is the exact standard for a game to be a success. It didn't fail to me, I loved Kinect Sports.

Also, Microsoft remove Kinect from the SKU to satisfy that crybabies that wouldn't shut up about it, and that wouldn't stop crying for having to pay the extra 100 dollars for it. I guess once they remove Netflix and Hulu from behind the paywall, the we'll all be saying that XBL was a fail too right?

I totally understand your point, I just don't agree with it.

Let me ask you this, Is the Wii U a failure? We all know it's not reaching it sales expectations.

uxo22 said,

Okay, I didn't and still don't think Kinect sports failed. I really don't understand where you people get off calling something a fail. Is there a set number of games that Kinect Sports need to sell to not be a fail? If so, what is that number? What is the exact standard for a game to be a success. It didn't fail to me, I loved Kinect Sports.

Also, Microsoft remove Kinect from the SKU to satisfy that crybabies that wouldn't shut up about it, and that wouldn't stop crying for having to pay the extra 100 dollars for it. I guess once they remove Netflix and Hulu from behind the paywall, the we'll all be saying that XBL was a fail too right?

I totally understand your point, I just don't agree with it.

Let me ask you this, Is the Wii U a failure? We all know it's not reaching it sales expectations.

I don't need you to agree with my point, but you can at least acknowledge the facts. Kinect sports failed, and it was described in an article on the front page news. Here's a quick insert from it:

Rare, the in-house developers focused on Microsoft's Kinect sensor, has suffered layoffs as a result of poor sales of its latest game, "Kinect Sports Rival." The news comes a week after Microsoft announced that it will start selling the Xbox One without a Kinect sensor.

Also, there had to have been A LOT of crybabies that didn't want to pay extra $100 for the Xbox One with Kinect. Microsoft did a smart thing with removing it.

stevan said,

I don't need you to agree with my point, but you can at least acknowledge the facts. Kinect sports failed, and it was described in an article on the front page news. Here's a quick insert from it:

Also, there had to have been A LOT of crybabies that didn't want to pay extra $100 for the Xbox One with Kinect. Microsoft did a smart thing with removing it.

Okay, we did have a bit of a disconnect. When you said Kinect sports failed. I thought you were talking about the original Kinect sports. I wasn't thinking about Kinect Sports Rivals, which I agree wasn't that good.

Oh, BTW there was a HUGE amount of crybabies whining about the $100.

So yeah, I do acknowledge that KSR isn't doing well, my bad I thought you were talking about the original Kinect sports (Especially since you were talking about Kinect being out for 4 years.) Which I thought was loads of fun.

uxo22 said,

Okay, we did have a bit of a disconnect. When you said Kinect sports failed. I thought you were talking about the original Kinect sports. I wasn't thinking about Kinect Sports Rivals, which I agree wasn't that good.

Oh, BTW there was a HUGE amount of crybabies whining about the $100.

So yeah, I do acknowledge that KSR isn't doing well, my bad I thought you were talking about the original Kinect sports (Especially since you were talking about Kinect being out for 4 years.) Which I thought was loads of fun.

No worries. I am happy that they removed the kinect requirement. Now i can actually buy the xbox one and not pay a premium. Honestly though, I am more interested in Kinect outside of the gaming.

uxo22 said,

Oh, BTW there was a HUGE amount of crybabies whining about the $100.

20% drop in price is not to be taken lightly, nor is $100 extra when nothing you have from the last generation is remotely forward compatible. So all the goodwill people have from the 360 must be thrown away to invest in a XB1.

And I wouldn't call them crybabies -- if you want to be analytical about it, you could say they are ordinary people with less disposable income than perhaps others have. Lots of people have that problem.

patseguin said,
All I know is I am growing weary of shouting "XBOX ON!" at the top of my lungs first thing in the morning.

Then, simply hit the center button on your controller as you did with the 360.

Agree completely. Hopefully the new leadership at Microsoft takes them in the right direction. What we've seen so far is definitely great. Finally giving the option for the start menu in Windows 8.1 will get people to stop complaining. Unbundling Kinect was a great decision but the Kinect-less SKU should be $350 or include a game at $400. As it is it doesn't make much sense to buy the $400 model when they were selling a bundle for $450 with Kinect and a game.

mrp04 said,
Agree completely. Hopefully the new leadership at Microsoft takes them in the right direction. What we've seen so far is definitely great. Finally giving the option for the start menu in Windows 8.1 will get people to stop complaining. Unbundling Kinect was a great decision but the Kinect-less SKU should be $350 or include a game at $400. As it is it doesn't make much sense to buy the $400 model when they were selling a bundle for $450 with Kinect and a game.

Exactly and Microsoft knows that. They want you to have Kinect with your Xbox, and for those that don't want Kinect they can save $50.00. The question is what's worth more to you, paying $50 bucks more and getting Kinect or Saving 50 and not having Kinect. Either way, they game the people the option that they were so eagerly complaining for now let's see what they do with it. :)

uxo22 said,

Exactly and Microsoft knows that. They want you to have Kinect with your Xbox, and for those that don't want Kinect they can save $50.00. The question is what's worth more to you, paying $50 bucks more and getting Kinect or Saving 50 and not having Kinect. Either way, they game the people the option that they were so eagerly complaining for now let's see what they do with it. :)

Some places are still selling it at $450 with the game so the extra $50 gets you both the kinect AND a game. It really is a no-brainer. Unbundling Kinect is the right thing to do but they should have priced it better. They would have gotten a much bigger reaction.

Got to love Neowin and their bull. There is nothing to suggest that Microsoft if abandoning Kinect and just because the 'media' speculates that Microsoft will be unbundling Kinect from the Xbox One doesn't mean it's being killed off.

If Microsoft is unbundling Kinect it'll just make the price cheaper, just look at the Xbox 360 having Kinect with it made it dearer and vice versa without, if anything Microsoft might just giving the consumer more choice but again unless we hear it from the horses mouth it's probably best not to assume.

Robbie Ride said,
Got to love Neowin and their bull. There is nothing to suggest that Microsoft if abandoning Kinect and just because the 'media' speculates that Microsoft will be unbundling Kinect from the Xbox One doesn't mean it's being killed off.

If Microsoft is unbundling Kinect it'll just make the price cheaper, just look at the Xbox 360 having Kinect with it made it dearer and vice versa without, if anything Microsoft might just giving the consumer more choice but again unless we hear it from the horses mouth it's probably best not to assume.

It's not bull, and no one ever said MS was going to abandon anything. We already know the price on the unbundled XBox, that's last week's news (100 less). The horse's mouth has already said it will still sell the Kinect as a separate unit.

The article is an editorial on how the Kinect has failed to really deliver on its basic promise - to be integral to your gaming experience, and worth it enough to be a mandatory $100 increase in price for all XB1 consumers.

I disagree with this. The Kinect while not used widespread yet is a great viable tool. I love the voice commands, and while there are hiccups with it, I can only see improvements. I blame the users and people not wanting to take the step forward the think outside the box on how it could be used for games and other applications.

In my own opinion, this is very similar to the Windows 8 problems... the Kinect sensor and it uses and the new touch friendly design of Windows 8 are forward thinking released to a world of stagnate or backwards thinkers, not wanting to change...

denzone said,
I disagree with this. The Kinect while not used widespread yet is a great viable tool. I love the voice commands, and while there are hiccups with it, I can only see improvements. I blame the users and people not wanting to take the step forward the think outside the box on how it could be used for games and other applications.

In my own opinion, this is very similar to the Windows 8 problems... the Kinect sensor and it uses and the new touch friendly design of Windows 8 are forward thinking released to a world of stagnate or backwards thinkers, not wanting to change...

While I'm not going to argue with the sentiments here - largely agree - the problem is that the Kinect doesn't add to the gaming experience AS PROMISED.

In short, where are the games that truly use the Kinect?

Everything else is just a UI experience addon / replacement for vanilla (non-game) xbox one commands or login recognition. It in no way is necessary / required for the gaming experience. Good? Yes... but not worth a mandatory $100 increase in cost for everyone.

mram said,

While I'm not going to argue with the sentiments here - largely agree - the problem is that the Kinect doesn't add to the gaming experience AS PROMISED.

In short, where are the games that truly use the Kinect?

Everything else is just a UI experience addon / replacement for vanilla (non-game) xbox one commands or login recognition. It in no way is necessary / required for the gaming experience. Good? Yes... but not worth a mandatory $100 increase in cost for everyone.

Wow, wait...How long exactly have this product been out. Have we even gotten past the launch titles yet. Have the second wave of titles come out yet for the PS4 or the XB1?

uxo22 said,

Wow, wait...How long exactly have this product been out. Have we even gotten past the launch titles yet. Have the second wave of titles come out yet for the PS4 or the XB1?

Kinect has been out since 2010. Users shouldn't have to wait for the second wave of titles to make use of an addon that was available with the ORIGINAL system. And when the first anticipated kinect game (kinect sports rivals) comes out, it's sales end up being bellow projected and the studio has to lay off people.

Yes, that Kinect for Xbox is an amazing device lol

uxo22 said,

Wow, wait...How long exactly have this product been out. Have we even gotten past the launch titles yet. Have the second wave of titles come out yet for the PS4 or the XB1?

I'm going to make a general assumption here, and it is simply this: Exercise isn't really fun. And the Kinect is built upon the premise that you have to move your body.

If the XBox is a gaming device, and the Kinect is there to enhance your gaming, then essentially the Kinect is an exercise tool, not a gaming appliance.

Yes, MS is trying to morph the XBox into a living room appliance, a skype camera, microphone etc ... but they're taking away from what really brings the boys to the yard -- the games. And if they can't find a way to at least deliver on the initial promise - that the Kinect is "integral to the gaming experience", they really don't have any choice but to remove it.

To the point above, they've had 4 years to figure out a way to really use the Kinect in gaming that doesn't have to do with you jumping around your living room. Besides, people weren't buying those "games" anyway.

stevan said,

Kinect has been out since 2010. Users shouldn't have to wait for the second wave of titles to make use of an addon that was available with the ORIGINAL system. And when the first anticipated kinect game (kinect sports rivals) comes out, it's sales end up being bellow projected and the studio has to lay off people.

Yes, that Kinect for Xbox is an amazing device lol

Oh, so the original Kinect can be used with the XBOX One. Was are you act as if they devices are simply interchangeable and that the coding between the two are equally interchangeable. You know things are not as simple as you try and make them out to be.

I am talking about Kinect for XB1, the same one that the original article was talking about. Why do you feel a need to keep crossing back and forward between generations. All you're doing is adding FUD to the entire process.

BTW, you never did answer my question as to whether or not the Wii U was a failure

uxo22 said,

Oh, so the original Kinect can be used with the XBOX One. Was are you act as if they devices are simply interchangeable and that the coding between the two are equally interchangeable. You know things are not as simple as you try and make them out to be.

I am talking about Kinect for XB1, the same one that the original article was talking about. Why do you feel a need to keep crossing back and forward between generations. All you're doing is adding FUD to the entire process.

BTW, you never did answer my question as to whether or not the Wii U was a failure

It's a silly argument, and not even mine, really.

Kinect technology is built on an API. That API was extended for Kinect 2.0. We're not talking about interchangeable devices, we are referring to developers writing stuff that makes ordinary folks like me want to throw green pieces of paper at it. Developers were experienced at Kinect 1.0 and now 2.0 and have had 4 years to come up with games.

Now ... where are those mind boggling games that use Kinect?

uxo22 said,

Oh, so the original Kinect can be used with the XBOX One. Was are you act as if they devices are simply interchangeable and that the coding between the two are equally interchangeable. You know things are not as simple as you try and make them out to be.

I am talking about Kinect for XB1, the same one that the original article was talking about. Why do you feel a need to keep crossing back and forward between generations. All you're doing is adding FUD to the entire process.

BTW, you never did answer my question as to whether or not the Wii U was a failure

Kinect 2 is built upon Kinect 1. So the obvious stands. And Wii U has nothing to do with this article.

stevan said,

Kinect 2 is built upon Kinect 1. So the obvious stands. And Wii U has nothing to do with this article.

Actually the Wii has no way of supporting your argument. And, the article never mentioned Kinect 1 yet you continue to bring it up. Kinect 1 and Kinect 2 are two different products.

uxo22 said,

Actually the Wii has no way of supporting your argument. And, the article never mentioned Kinect 1 yet you continue to bring it up. Kinect 1 and Kinect 2 are two different products.

The phrase you're missing in there is "but similar". They are different, but similar, products... much in the same way that you may have an older mouse with a trackball and you get a newer mouse, version 2, that uses a laser.

But the point is that those people who design for mice, know how to make it work with mice. Doesn't matter which version.

And that same point is driven home here. The Kinect, as a motion sensing audio sensing device, has been around on the market for 4 years. Short of dancing games or exercise games, no one has yet to develop anything revolutionary for it.

Sure you can go on and on about how the Kinect with XB1 is newer, better, faster, stronger, but it largely doesn't matter in this case. Facial recognition for logon doesn't help games, and that's one aspect that is better. But where are the games?

Kinect (any version) has yet to deliver any product that tells the world "Yes! That's why I bought the Kinect! You really need to get one too! That game was A-MAZE-ING!!"

It's word of mouth from games like Halo or Titanfall that do that. You know, things people play and have immense fun with. Kinect never came close, comparatively never left the starting line.

What you are missing is in what context we were talking about the "Wii U" and not the Wii. The reason I was able to use Wii without the U with him is because he already knew what we were talking about and you don't.

I know exactly what my point was.

Besides, I'm moved on past this argument. It's pointless (at least for me it is.)

uxo22 said,
What you are missing is in what context we were talking about the "Wii U" and not the Wii. The reason I was able to use Wii without the U with him is because he already knew what we were talking about and you don't.

I know exactly what my point was.

Besides, I'm moved on past this argument. It's pointless (at least for me it is.)

My point stands then. Thanks for conceding and moving on. :)

I think this is a bogus article. Kinect is a very good option to have. No controller needed....that is the future.

I agree... it's not KINECT that's the failure. It's the sales of Xbox One bundle. Kinect itself is doing great away from gaming (e.g. in hospitals) and general consumers love it too (everytime I go to bestbuy or the MS Store... ppl are always buying it and playing with the in-store games).

Don't agree with the tone of the article or some of your conclusions but very much agree they only have themselves to blame, from the poor announcement of the xbox1 right through to not getting the full features of the Kinect to other markets, not marketing its features enough and not producing a flagship game or demo that demonstrates some of the cooler features.

I mean how did playstation4 camera get better publicity and look more fun than Kinect??!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hUUsqhetX4

To blame the current Microsoft for this isn't completely fair. The two people that were responsible for the decision to ship the Kinect with Xbox One were Don Mattrick (former head of Xbox division) and Steve Ballmer. Both have since left Microsoft. It was also Don Mattrick that stubbornly refused to allow access to entertainment apps without and Xbox Gold membership.
Since Phil Spencer became head of the Xbox division in March he has been busy undoing some of the previous management's decisions which include unbundling Kinect and allowing free access to entertainment apps. With the new management in place I hope that Microsoft continues to make good decisions regarding Xbox and all things Microsoft.

The problem is that hardware decisions cannot be undone, and some software decisions could take 6-9 months to undo, so there's only so much he can do to correct what has been done wrong.
He's on the right path, but he just took on the low hanging fruit for now. Let's see how he does with tougher decisions.

Not surprised. Kinect works when it wants to as well. Not consistent. There are times it recognized my voice just fine, others...not at all. And yes, I have calibrated the system I dont know how many times. There is not a lot of game support either and it is not catching on to much.

Kinect should never have been bundled with the XBOX and just MS thinking they knew what people wanted, and what would sell, when they didnt. As soon as the update applies to make the X1 more non kinect friendly, I will probably be unplugging mine and tossing it in the box if/when it is useful.

It is not just Kinect. They've themselves to blame for everything Xbox-related that hasn't turned out the way they envisioned. Actually, everything entertainment-related. For a company with now 120,000 people, they sure don't put their brightest minds on the Xbox teams.

elenarie said,
It is not just Kinect. They've themselves to blame for everything Xbox-related that hasn't turned out the way they envisioned. Actually, everything entertainment-related. For a company with now 120,000 people, they sure don't put their brightest minds on the Xbox teams.

why not go get a job there and straighten them out?

I'd love to try, but then I am aware of my capabilities to realise that one man cannot change a whole company, nor can do as good of a job as hundreds / thousands of people. So, your point was?

I agree. If MS really wanted the XBox One to sell, they should have done the following.

1) Make the TV experience good enough to be picked up and used by cable/satellite companies and form partnerships where deals like $99 down on a 2 year contract gets you an Xbox One for your living room.

2) Make a healthy lifestyle division and partner with national gyms in each country you release it in where they get the same deal as the cable companies. Incorporate Health Vault and support products like Fitbit, Fuel band, and a host of other products. They should work with those Gym instructors to form classes so people can use Kinect to work out with instructor led classes from home and/or do it on your own schedule and have those instructors look at the health data and via Skype talk with the students and give personal feedback and recommendations. In other words, a private instructor in the comfort of your home.

3) Get the XBox One certified as a medical device and get it subsidized by insurance companies and put one in every hospital room. Set it up so the patients can video call the Nurse or the Nurse can call the patient. Since the patient can just say "Answer call", they wouldn't have to learn how to use a remote. Further more they could set it up for use for patients at their homes and if they have a problem at home they could call their local hospital/doctor's office for assistance. Also they could have Physical Therapy classes at home.

4) Partner with Schools to do the same thing as 2 & 3 for virtual classes with rural students who may have difficulty getting to school or for night classes/virtual classrooms.

I have about a dozen more uses for Kinect, but its really disappointing MS has not taken the lead with this and incorporated this with Onedrive, Lync, and all of their other services yet. There's tons of potential that neither Google nor Apple can do simply because they don't have all of the services.

rippleman said,

why not go get a job there and straighten them out?

So, he should quits his current work and reallocate to a new location only because some executives did a stupid evaluation of the market?.

Brony said,

So, he should quits his current work and reallocate to a new location only because some executives did a stupid evaluation of the market?.

absolutely.

elenarie said,
I'd love to try, but then I am aware of my capabilities to realise that one man cannot change a whole company, nor can do as good of a job as hundreds / thousands of people. So, your point was?

If what you say is true, and they aren't very bright over there, perhaps you could straighten all this out, go show them what to do, take over 1st place in market share and they will make you a star. You will be paid millions in bonuses and have a solid career showing the "not so bright" people how to do it.

rippleman said,

If what you say is true, and they aren't very bright over there, perhaps you could straighten all this out, go show them what to do, take over 1st place in market share and they will make you a star. You will be paid millions in bonuses and have a solid career showing the "not so bright" people how to do it.

Well, lets see. GfW, GfWL, Games Explorer, Games app for Win8+ and WP, Xbox Music apps, Xbox video apps, PlaysForSure, Xbox on Windows, Xbox on Windows Phone... How many failures do you need to determine that they really are not doing a good job?

elenarie said,

Well, lets see. GfW, GfWL, Games Explorer, Games app for Win8+ and WP, Xbox Music apps, Xbox video apps, PlaysForSure, Xbox on Windows, Xbox on Windows Phone... How many failures do you need to determine that they really are not doing a good job?

I don't own one. I don't own a PS either. I am commenting strictly about your ability to determine that they are not that bright. And if they are not that bright, and you are, then go, get hired, fix what needs fixing, and make millions in the process.

If you don't see the sarcasim, I am basically trying to say that the do have extremely bright people working for them. Its a mammoth ecosystem. If you are comparing it to Sony, then Sony would come out appearing that they got everything down good, but they don't have the complexity of the Microsoft ecosystem. I can't say one is better then the other. All i can say is the actual people that you say are not too bright are brighter then all of us on this website.

elenarie said,
I'd love to try, but then I am aware of my capabilities to realise that one man cannot change a whole company, nor can do as good of a job as hundreds / thousands of people. So, your point was?

His point was, stop being a talking head, because it's easy to sit on the sidelines and talk smack. Where exactly is your working product that is selling off the shelves.

At least that's what I gathered from his point...lol

nickcruz said,
Why jump the gun and claim its a failure? Its not a failure at all and far from it.
Doom and gloom gets clicks and readers the other does not. They can say they get nothing out of it but why post something if you dont want people to read it and this is a way to get people to read it.

Problem is the ps4 sold very well so now even though xbox one has doubled the 360 in the first few months its a failure cause it didnt reach the ps4.

I use it to Skype at least 10 times a week to 5 different relatives who also have XBox Ones. Now that we have group Skype my parents read stories to all of their grandchildren, have family dinner, my son shows off his Karate skills, and my daughter demonstrates her new found love of ballet. Kinect in the living room has so much more potential than just the gaming.

As soon as MS enables Skype to be snapped, I can see people using it for gaming together, virtual classes, and even emergency calls for people who are are not mobile but need to call the doctor or even call for a pizza. My wife and her sisters are all going to buy the same exercise program and Snap Skype to workout as a group. If Microsoft can get the "Party Mode" Netflix working again, you could watch movies with loved ones across the world. This is the first time that a broad service available on so many platforms has now made it to the living room. It is far from a failure. Microsoft just has to make it work and market it properly.

Kinect, is a failure. MS has it on the 360 and PC before the 1 and they still cannot get it to take off or gain traction. It has potential as all the hacks out there have shown, but MS really has not developed it much or pushed it. And in the areas they have, it doesnt work to well and there are bugs. It has been about 4yrs since the first Kinect. Of course this could always change if MS wants it to.

Agree, but with all the PRISM BS going on last year and MS being pointed out as one of its first contributors (then being a target for no-lifers pointing that out everywhere they got the chance to), the Kinect should always have been optional from the start, or been part of a second SKU next to the one without it. At least then, the price difference of $100 wouldn't have played a role and people wouldn't have felt so forced.
Furthermore, MS should have played the subsidized console card from the start. With it being an all-in-one media center, they could have made deals with all kinds of cable providers to make this happen. They didn't and IMO they still should try to.
MS is the only one to blame for these mistakes and Don Mattrick sugar coating it all with stupid comments when he was asked about it, didn't help either.
Now MS isn't out of the woods yet. Sony could still cut the price by, say $50, at E3 and then MS would have to do it too as they are still carying the slightly inferior spec for the same price. They also need to release in more than 13 countries and up it to the same amount as the PS4 or more, FAST as localization is now no longer at the top of the to do list now Kinect is no longer mandatory.
Now, another thing is the way for every Xbox One was to be turned into a devkit. It still hasn't happened yet and ID@Xbox still isn't enticing everybody. IMO they should have made this possible from the start too. XNA was a success on the Xbox 360, even with all the crappy limitations to system resources it had. MS should just push a same $99 subscription (this time including Gold features) to let people make their console into the ultimate indie dev machine with extra capabilities.
Sideloading all kinds of games and apps without going through MS cert would be a great plus.
And now the big one: MS should dish out the games, games, games and they need to be exclusive to the Xbox One. No ports for PC or Xbox 360.
All of this could easily convince more customers to go for an Xbox One and I hope Phil Spencer makes the right choices.
Kinect doesn't have to be a failure if MS continues to properly support it, I personally couldn't imagine my Xbox One without it now, but it surely shouldn't have been such a focus from the start.

Edited by Thief000, May 19 2014, 7:45pm :

techbeck said,
Kinect, is a failure. MS has it on the 360 and PC before the 1 and they still cannot get it to take off or gain traction. It has potential as all the hacks out there have shown, but MS really has not developed it much or pushed it. And in the areas they have, it doesnt work to well and there are bugs. It has been about 4yrs since the first Kinect. Of course this could always change if MS wants it to.

True, and the sad part is, Kinect has so much potential. I think Microsoft is unable to explore the full potential of Kinect. They should let Google, IBM, Apple or someone else have a try with it.

techbeck said,
Kinect, is a failure. MS has it on the 360 and PC before the 1 and they still cannot get it to take off or gain traction. It has potential as all the hacks out there have shown, but MS really has not developed it much or pushed it. And in the areas they have, it doesnt work to well and there are bugs. It has been about 4yrs since the first Kinect. Of course this could always change if MS wants it to.

selling 4 million kinects in the Christmas season in one year does not seam like it did not take off..

Lachlan said,
selling 4 million kinects in the Christmas season in one year does not seam like it did not take off..

Selling 4 million products that not many uses and has issues does not = taking off. And with close to 100 million 360s sold, and I dont know how many Kinects, 4 million isnt much at all. Granted, 4 million were in the XMAS season but still, not many use Kinect.

stevan said,
True, and the sad part is, Kinect has so much potential. I think Microsoft is unable to explore the full potential of Kinect. They should let Google, IBM, Apple or someone else have a try with it.

MS could do so much with Kinect. All the 3rd party hacks I have seen are really cool and much better than what MS has been doing. MS will probably not let others companies have a crack at Kinect, but there is a lot of room for another company to come along, develop their own tech, and take it mainstream.

nickcruz said,
Why jump the gun and claim its a failure? Its not a failure at all and far from it.

The XBox One could have sold a whole lot more without the Kinect. It renders and bogs down the entire platform as a failure in sales aspects. I lump myself into this bucket. I really wanted to get the XB1 for my family, but 500 vs 400 is a lot, given that it's not at all backward compatible. I had gotten a 360 version of Kinect and it didn't work in my limited living room space with my kids, so all things considered, figured it would be nearly $650 just go get the XB1, controllers and a SINGLE game for my kids. I opted for the "wait and see" approach.

That's a horrible entry point.

As far as the kinect goes, I was just waiting to see also whether it worked better, what games really were there for it, and to the point of this article, no real revolutionary titles or even products have appeared. It's a $100 albatross that has limited UI use.

stevan said,

True, and the sad part is, Kinect has so much potential. I think Microsoft is unable to explore the full potential of Kinect. They should let Google, IBM, Apple or someone else have a try with it.

That was a joke right?

Houtei said,
even though xbox one has doubled the 360 in the first few months its a failure cause it didnt reach the ps4.

You can't compare sales numbers like that. Xbox 360 came after a product that barely made a dent in market share, so initial sales were poor as people were not really excited about it. Not to mention that the console market was smaller overall, so comparing absolute numbers is like comparing prices after 8 years without taking inflation into account.

This time however the Xbox One came with a lot of momentum from the previous generation, so it was more than expected that it would sell more in the same time frame. So yeah, if you just compare the Xbox with itself then it did what was expected from it, but if you look at PS4 sales numbers then you see how the One is a sales disappointment so far.

techbeck said,
Kinect, is a failure. MS has it on the 360 and PC before the 1 and they still cannot get it to take off or gain traction. It has potential as all the hacks out there have shown, but MS really has not developed it much or pushed it. And in the areas they have, it doesnt work to well and there are bugs. It has been about 4yrs since the first Kinect. Of course this could always change if MS wants it to.

Kinect is far from a failure. PSeye is a failure. Kinect is used in many technologies, especially in Windows, is used in many engineering facilities and hospitals... and just recently got approved by FDA to treat stroke patients:
http://www.wpcentral.com/kinec...d-fda-treat-stroke-patients

Far from failure.

gonchuki said,

You can't compare sales numbers like that. Xbox 360 came after a product that barely made a dent in market share, so initial sales were poor as people were not really excited about it. Not to mention that the console market was smaller overall, so comparing absolute numbers is like comparing prices after 8 years without taking inflation into account.

This time however the Xbox One came with a lot of momentum from the previous generation, so it was more than expected that it would sell more in the same time frame. So yeah, if you just compare the Xbox with itself then it did what was expected from it, but if you look at PS4 sales numbers then you see how the One is a sales disappointment so far.

So using that same logic, the PS3 was a failure, since it didn't dwarf the PS2 in sells right? Considering, the "momentum" it should have had from the PS2.

You theory is flawed.

The whenever people do previous generation comparisons based on where they were last gen is flawed because the world doesn't simple stand still while only console prices change.

I know we need it for statistical comparison, be anyone that know even a little about statistics know that you can make the numbers look any way you want, simply by changing your sample data. And momentum from one generation doesn't equate to momentum in another, ask Nintendo.

[quote=Thief000 said,]With it being an all-in-one media center...quote]
I wouldn't call it an all-in-one media center. My cell phone does more than the xbone.

Microsoft's problem is that they lead the consumer down the path they want us to go on. They give us something that we don't really want and then tell us it's the future, whereas in reality it's only a niche.

j2006 said,

Kinect is far from a failure. PSeye is a failure. Kinect is used in many technologies, especially in Windows, is used in many engineering facilities and hospitals... and just recently got approved by FDA to treat stroke patients:
http://www.wpcentral.com/kinec...d-fda-treat-stroke-patients

Far from failure.

So true. I use mine as a bookstand. And a dust catcher. And my cats like to play with the cord that hangs down.

uxo22 said,

So using that same logic, the PS3 was a failure, since it didn't dwarf the PS2 in sells right? Considering, the "momentum" it should have had from the PS2.


yes, the PS3 consistently sold below the Xbox 360 during almost its entire lifespan (only late last year it managed to surpass it in global sales), so if you compare it to the previous gen you could say it failed to match the expectations.

Comparing with the previous gen is the same thing the comment I replied to was doing, saying it sold "twice as much as the previous gen in the same timeframe".

uxo22 said,
And momentum from one generation doesn't equate to momentum in another, ask Nintendo.

It does everywhere else in the world, why would it not apply to consoles? You make a great product, you make a name for youself and then people will be expecting your next generation to buy it the moment it's on sale, because they like your brand. Just ask the guys buying every Samsung Galaxy device on earth just because it's 6 months newer than the one they had before. That's how it works when you target an audience that thrives to always have the latest.

Nintendo is a very special one here, because they never did that good since the SNES and partly the N64, and the Wii was more of a "nice to have" gadget than a "core gamer" item.

Edited by gonchuki, May 20 2014, 7:38pm :

Drewidian said,
...snip...

Have to agree with some of the other comments. All the examples you gave can be accomplished with a $10 web cam. Absolutely no need for a $100+ motion sensing, infrared blasting device to do any of the things you said.