Microsoft reveals Windows 8 "All Programs" view, answers Start Screen concerns

Seeing as there has been much discussion surrounding Windows 8's new Start Screen - either positive, negative, or on-the-fence - Microsoft took an opportunity to give a very exhaustive explanation of some common concerns enthusiasts have with the upcoming Start Menu replacement on the latest Building Windows 8 blog post.

Besides answers to questions, they've left an interesting screenshot for users to look forward to in the upcoming beta:

​New "All Programs" view: In the Windows 8 Developer Preview, applications are listed in alphabetical order from A-Z, regardless of which application or suite they belonged to. This will change in the beta, where applications will be grouped by their "parent folder," or "program group" if you recall that terminology from the Windows 3.x days.

Compared to the current All Programs view for Windows Vista and 7, this new solution keeps the parent-level folder as with previous Start Menus in Windows. As seen in the above screenshot, all Office 2010 applications are grouped together.

One noticeable change for existing applications of today is that child-level folders will be promoted up to the parent level. With Office 2010 as an example, on older versions of Windows the "Upload Center" icon would normally be under a "Microsoft Office 2010 Tools" subfolder in the Office 2010 group. This change should not come as a surprise, given that Microsoft has encouraged developers to move away from nested folders in the transition from the cascading XP menus to the flat Vista and 7 folder list.

Another change made from the Developer Preview is that the "Search" charm will now essentially act as a "All Programs" link, taking users to an expanded list of their applications upon activation.

​But what about Fitt's Law for the new Start Screen? Users have noted the extra mouse travel time given a large launching surface for applications. While Microsoft acknowledged the extra mouse travel distance in the Start Screen versus the Start Menu, they also point out that Fitt's Law also takes into account the size of the target, in addition to the distance. The distance to reach the target may have increased, but the larger size of the tiles compensates for the lost time.

Microsoft hopes that the live tiles on the Start Screen can save users time by presenting information without requiring an app launch, and that users can locate buried applications on their system faster by presenting them with large icons, relying on spatial memory (location of a tile relative to a 'shape') and colours of a title/icon to help speed up the launching process, as opposed to digging through a list of primarily text links.

The following two heat maps present Microsoft's argument for the time required to launch a user's favourite applications. They compared users launching the Start Screen and selecting a favourite tile, with users selecting a pinned application from the Start Menu. Boxes in green represent a shorter launch time, with longer durations in red.

These heat maps show a larger number of tiles that can be quickly accessed by a user launching the Start Screen from the lower left corner, compared to a default number of 10 pinned applications in the Start Menu.

Finally, what about jump lists? While touted as one of the most interesting new features for Windows 7, its use has not approached the same level as that of the new revamped taskbar. 20% of recorded user sessions had activated jump lists from the taskbar, compared to just 1.2% of sessions for jump lists invoked from the Start Menu.

Given the new Start Screen, jump lists from the Start Menu will no longer be an option, but Microsoft will keep jump lists intact for users who prefer the file-centric launching model that current versions of Windows presents. Microsoft hopes that live tiles, which can be pinned from any part of a modern Metro application, will in time wean users away from a file-centric user experience to that centered around services.

Image Credit: Building Windows 8 blog

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Do people plan to always have the new Start Screen open? Do you always have the old Start Menu open? If you don't like the new Start Screen, just pin applications to the taskbar or send a shortcut to the desktop as usual.

What if i want to browse the web and watch a movie at the same time. A lot of times i'll have the movie playing at the bottom of the screen and other apps opened in the top half. I'll have to see if there's a way to get metro to do this, so far it seems like every app that runs takes the whole screen, which isn't good all the time.

As much as i understand there has to be evolution in the Windows environment to keep everything ticking along nicely, i still can't quite get to grips with the new start screen.

The reason the Metro UI was developed was for touch interfaces and now suddenly Microsoft is trashing its Start menu and taskbar paradigm despite conclusive examples given by hundreds of users on the B8 blog comments that the Start screen does not do everything as well as the Taskbar and the Start Menu. Therefore it would be best if Microsoft let the user choice what to show: Start menu or Start Screen from "Start Menu, Taskbar and Start Screen" options in Control Panel depending on the input device used. If you click, open the menu, if you press the Winkey, open what the user wants, if you touch, open the Start Screen. Sadly, they seem to have made up their mind about either allowing the Start Menu (via that reg tweak) or the Start Screen. Not both.

Still does not solve the problem of the Start Screen taking up the whole ****ing screen.

I want to launch apps as unobstructive as possible. Like if I'm watching a video and just decide to fire up WLM or something, I don't need a bloody full page screen just to launch the app, while taking the focus away from my video. I'm intelligent enough to do more than one thing at a time.

This Metro paradigm is stupid for desktop/laptop usage. There's a reason why Windows was called Windows, with the Metro paradigm, it seems the concept of having two windows overlap each other has been lost.

I'm still not convinced. The old Start Menu still needs to be there. What MS is forgetting is that the majority of people DON'T like change. That's why only now windows 7 has a larger market share than xp.

The Start Screen is a horrible mess. People spent years complaining how the Start Menu could fill up with programs and then cover the entire screen, and then they fixed that in Vista and 7 only to turn around and do exactly the thing that people complained about. Covering the entire screen with programs.

/facepalm

My view of Metro is that it would be used by people with touch screens, which are dropping in price and becoming more accessible to home users.. its essentially the same interface found on tablets and phones, and I really like this concept when paired with a touch screen monitor... I assume it will at some point be paired with kinect, so you can interact with the gui on your tv or larger screens via gestures... "Minority Report" style...

Im rather board of the traditional desktop, this is quite a radical change to the desktop design we have been using since Win95....

That pool table will NOT be covering even one of my 30" screens. Nope, sorry, waste of prime real estate.

If they want to come up with a floating dock paradigm that I can layer with some of my other stuff, so be it.

But I want immediately click-ability on some applications while leaving the ones I use rarely buried in menus until I choose to use them.

I don't want my entire screen disappearing whenever I just want to click on one icon just to start Photoshop...

excalpius said,
That pool table will NOT be covering even one of my 30" screens. Nope, sorry, waste of prime real estate.

If they want to come up with a floating dock paradigm that I can layer with some of my other stuff, so be it.

But I want immediately click-ability on some applications while leaving the ones I use rarely buried in menus until I choose to use them.

I don't want my entire screen disappearing whenever I just want to click on one icon just to start Photoshop...

Then buy a iMac and be done with it.

i get that they first used this idea in office 2010 with their full-screen "file" menu, but there's a catch: person looks and concentrates to the area around the mouse, and office 2010 file menu uses this style to create a new but efficient menu system. This works OK for everybody because it's efficient. But Metro just spills everything around the full desktop area and therefore it's not efficient for the user. Classic start menu works the best because you look at the small area which expands with moving your mouse over the menus and you are following the mouse at the same time with your eyes. It's just totally different thing with mouse-operated PC's and finger-touch-operated tablets. When you use tablet then you first look for the thing you want and then push it with your finger automatically to the right place. This is very similar to the "drunk test" to drunk drivers where you have to touch your nose. you don't have to follow your finger because it's a part of you which you control the best even when you don't look at it. Mouse on the other hand is just an interface which has just a fraction of the accuracy your body itself has, so you monitor it while using it.

Think about it, it's a totally different approach between mouse/PC and hand/tablet.

and after Reading the long Blog article i can say, how my comment was correct.

if i was Sinofksy i wouldn't write anything. because people is so stupid to comment on the blog about stuff its said on the article. I mean... come on!
people dont even try it and talk crap, people use it for 3 minutes and talk crap. people

and its a DEVELOPER PREVIEW. really people see old start menú so important that they even take a decision over something that isn't even in beta?

the article was long enough explaining and answering questions about it and still there are idiots commenting and asking stuff about something they talked on the article they are commenting to?

nice article by Marina... and resume by Denis Wong. sadly there will be always idiots who cant even care to read about what they are commenting.

come on!
how someone will comment:
"Thu Win
I would like to know whether we can switch back to the start menu we are so familiar with. Also, since most of the apps launch in the legacy desktop, can you make that the "default" launch location (like the current and older Windows app) instead of launching us straight to the start menu and the switching to the desktop."

when its been explained by Marina Dukhon on the blog post clearly but people still DONT REEAD but comment!

EmilyTheStrange said,
and after Reading the long Blog article i can say, how my comment was correct.

if i was Sinofksy i wouldn't write anything. because people is so stupid to comment on the blog about stuff its said on the article. I mean... come on!
people dont even try it and talk crap, people use it for 3 minutes and talk crap. people

and its a DEVELOPER PREVIEW. really people see old start menú so important that they even take a decision over something that isn't even in beta?

the article was long enough explaining and answering questions about it and still there are idiots commenting and asking stuff about something they talked on the article they are commenting to?

nice article by Marina... and resume by Denis Wong. sadly there will be always idiots who cant even care to read about what they are commenting.

come on!
how someone will comment:
"Thu Win
I would like to know whether we can switch back to the start menu we are so familiar with. Also, since most of the apps launch in the legacy desktop, can you make that the "default" launch location (like the current and older Windows app) instead of launching us straight to the start menu and the switching to the desktop."

when its been explained by Marina Dukhon on the blog post clearly but people still DONT REEAD but comment!


To me he looks like an Apple fanboy in that blog.

If microsoft don't put an easy way to completely hide (or eradicate, but that's to radical for some people ) that metro interface, it's gonna flop and it will do it hard)

Arceles said,
If microsoft don't put an easy way to completely hide (or eradicate, but that's to radical for some people ) that metro interface, it's gonna flop and it will do it hard)

Just like everything from Microshaft.

KingCrimson said,

Just like everything from Microshaft.

I see what you did there... how smart of you! </sarc>
Maybe you could now explain to me how MS is one of the worlds highest grossing companies if everything is such a flop?

Apps? Seriously? I have enough Apps. its called anything Windows 7 and before. Now is not the time to completely mix it up.

What no one seems to get here is that it's about the apps.

You say you don't like Metro, but there are no significant apps yet.

When the apps reduce your need to fall into the legacy paradigm, you won't mind so much.
Perhaps, you'll even like it.

dotf said,
What no one seems to get here is that it's about the apps.

You say you don't like Metro, but there are no significant apps yet.

When the apps reduce your need to fall into the legacy paradigm, you won't mind so much.
Perhaps, you'll even like it.

...and why do you think they released a DEVELOPER preview? lol.

I contend that Windows 8 isn't really Windows. To me, Windows means having multiple "windows" that you can move, minimize, maximize, and close. With the Metro interface & Metro apps, everything is full-screen, not to mention the replacement of the Start Menu. Perhaps MS should call it something other than Windows, so people will realize that this is a truly different way of doing things than they are used to. They won't, obviously, but that's just my 2 cents.

Can I still put icons for the six often opened programs in my task bar? Then, put icons for the next five most opened programs on the desktop? Finally, the rest are listed alphabetically in the Start Menu? Microsoft still remains silent on how desktop oriented people will be able to use Windows-8.

TsarNikky said,
Can I still put icons for the six often opened programs in my task bar? Then, put icons for the next five most opened programs on the desktop? Finally, the rest are listed alphabetically in the Start Menu? Microsoft still remains silent on how desktop oriented people will be able to use Windows-8.

Read the article, it addresses exactly the above. And to answer you directly - yes - the taskbar still has pinning just like 7.

if i was Steven Sinofsky. i really would stop writing these blog articles.

you know, silly people will not read the blog and will criticize the new UI.

and some people wont even use the dev preview for more than 3 seconds and say it sucks because its different. of course its different! but it Works better, and gives more of what old start menu had.
yeah, some even act like if this Dev Preview was almost RTM and Microsoft wouldn't fix and add alot of stuff (like Microsoft is showing they are working on)

so sometimes i think Sinofsky should just do what he has to do, without tellikng to people what he is doing. since some wont even read anything about it and just say "disable duuhhh" "choice duuhhhh"

at least he said "We've seen some small amount of visceral feedback focused on "choice" or "disable" a natural reaction to change, but perhaps not the best way to have a dialog leading to a new product. "

Edited by lalalalalalalala, Oct 12 2011, 1:38am :

EmilyTheStrange said,
if i was Steven Sinofsky. i really would stop writing these blog articles.

you know, silly people will not read the blog and will criticize the new UI.

and some people wont even use the dev preview for more than 3 seconds and say it sucks because its different. of course its different! but it Works better, and gives more of what old start menu had.
yeah, some even act like if this Dev Preview was almost RTM and Microsoft wouldn't fix and add alot of stuff (like Microsoft is showing they are working on)

so sometimes i think Sinofsky should just do what he has to do, without tellikng to people what he is doing. since some wont even read anything about it and just say "disable duuhhh" "choice duuhhhh"

at least he said "We've seen some small amount of visceral feedback focused on "choice" or "disable" a natural reaction to change, but perhaps not the best way to have a dialog leading to a new product. "


Thank god you dont run a company. And if you do, its problably going to go out in a quick minute.

This is great PR from Microsoft.

EmilyTheStrange said,
if i was Steven Sinofsky. i really would stop writing these blog articles.

you know, silly people will not read the blog and will criticize the new UI.

and some people wont even use the dev preview for more than 3 seconds and say it sucks because its different. of course its different! but it Works better, and gives more of what old start menu had.
yeah, some even act like if this Dev Preview was almost RTM and Microsoft wouldn't fix and add alot of stuff (like Microsoft is showing they are working on)

so sometimes i think Sinofsky should just do what he has to do, without tellikng to people what he is doing. since some wont even read anything about it and just say "disable duuhhh" "choice duuhhhh"

at least he said "We've seen some small amount of visceral feedback focused on "choice" or "disable" a natural reaction to change, but perhaps not the best way to have a dialog leading to a new product. "

You might want to check some facts before making such kind of statements:

http://social.msdn.microsoft.c...operpreviewgeneral/threads/

ehmmm what statement? that i like reading everything Microsoft write in their blogs but silly people still don't try to understand it? they just want to complain and no matter how long the blog post is from Sinofksy and Marina. still silly people wont sit and try to understand all this change.

like someone said
Many complainers there and elsewhere fall into one of those categories:
1. Don't even use (or shouldn't use) the start menu to launch apps all that often anyway in W7 but still make a big deal out of the new start screen.
2. "I'm a power user. I'm productive. Did you hear me? I'm a productive power user! I need my desktop! Oh wait, I can still use my desktop the way it was for W7? Um...I don't care. I'm a power user, did you hear me? I don't care that I could have learned the new UI in five minutes that I spent whining. I am a power user godamit!"

and Microsoft have written the same thing 3 times, but still it seems people don't even understand. you know, go and read comments in this new blog post by microsoft... and you will see people ask stuff is already explained, detailed and nicely done.
so like i said IF I WAS SINOFSKY i wouldnt write anything so often and long. it doesnt mean i wouldn't have to do it (like he does) because its what i would have to do for having alot of people using my product (like happens with microsoft)

but still doesnt change the fact that people dont read what MS tries to explain and still they criticize the new UI even though they haven't used, they install it and don't try to use and after 3 minutes they say it sucks. people who cant accept change and treat old start menu like if it was efficient and perfect and like if new start screen didn't give the same thing (and more). and of course people who cant even read what Microsoft tries to explain.

and if someone cant take the time to read half the blog post... and then just say "it sucks because... i don't want to like it.. because i want to think it sucks" its stupid.

and what "fact" you want me to check... people asking where is solitaire in a developer preview? righttt

htcz said,

Thank god you dont run a company. And if you do, its problably going to go out in a quick minute.

This is great PR from Microsoft.

i will resume my last post on this (if i could edit it but oh well)
Autodesk makes alot of changes to their software, they removed and replaced some stuff in 3dsmax 2012. do they post million times in their blog to explain why they did it? no
they write necessary stuff like the usual what's new, what's next. not explaining why they made a change or a removal of feature or something, to some people who wont even try to understand. if you ask them, they have answered but they don't explain in blog post why.
and i really love reading Microsoft stuff, specially windows 8 blog post. but last 3 blog post are focused on explaining people who complain about why the new metro style UI.
not to let people know more about windows 8 (like when they explained about SkyDrive integration)

I guess i'll have to play with the beta/final to know how i really feel about it but still still doesn't feel quite right to me. Maybe that'll change once I get used to things - i'm usually all for change, especially when it's for the better. I'm not so sure on this yet though.

SHoTTa35 said,
I guess i'll have to play with the beta/final to know how i really feel about it but still still doesn't feel quite right to me. Maybe that'll change once I get used to things - i'm usually all for change, especially when it's for the better. I'm not so sure on this yet though.

Same here. I was all for what Vista and 7 brought the to the table, but Windows 8 is looking like a huge step backwards, IMO. They just seem to be forgetting everything they've done in the past severeal years just to shove this Metro UI down our throats. I'm all for it on a touch device, but for desktops it just does not work. This third blog showing some of the changes they're making further proves they have no idea what they're doing.

o quote Han Solo, "I've got a bad feeling about this."

xiphi said,

Same here. I was all for what Vista and 7 brought the to the table, but Windows 8 is looking like a huge step backwards, IMO. They just seem to be forgetting everything they've done in the past severeal years just to shove this Metro UI down our throats. I'm all for it on a touch device, but for desktops it just does not work. This third blog showing some of the changes they're making further proves they have no idea what they're doing.

o quote Han Solo, "I've got a bad feeling about this."

I think you took words out of my mouth. I still hate the new Screen. The Menu allows me to see things, and gets things i want much faster then facing a completely separate screen. On Tablet this works extremely well. But not on Desktop. These two are completely different paradigm. And trying to merge the two wont work very well.

I still think it should have a Application menu. While Having a another menu for everything else like control panel, search, etc....

And No, I haven't just used the Preview for few seconds. I have been using it Every Day on my work and home machine.

Did you all give the whole article a read?
The all programs view will filter all the programs to just show the APP EXEs and not other stuff like extra help menus and uninstall menus and stuff.
It will actually show more entries on the screen at one time than any older way. Plus less clicks.

Everything is backed by data. Not liking it is something else. The fact that its less productive is not write. Its very fast. So its not like it will take a minute to load each screen. It does it all instantly.

Zain Adeel said,
Did you all give the whole article a read?

Unfortunately, it seems most people just don't read the article and keep complaining. Or they do actually read the article but stubbornly continue ranting that Metro "is not for desktops" and "belongs on tablets".

bb10 said,

Unfortunately, it seems most people just don't read the article and keep complaining. Or they do actually read the article but stubbornly continue ranting that Metro "is not for desktops" and "belongs on tablets".
The trouble is that it's a huge transition for desktops, especially when some of the changes seem counter-productive (the number of steps to shut-down your system, for example). I installed the Developer Preview and I didn't find it intuitive at all - not being able to close Metro apps; different functionality if you click the Start orb to clicking the very corner; changing the taskbar to the top, the 'Start Menu' still appears when moving to the bottom left. Whereas I found the ribbon interface in Office 2007 to be completely intuitive, so despite being radically different I could still find everything I wanted and more.

The biggest problem with the Start Screen is that it completely takes over whatever you're doing. So if you're browsing a webpage or watching a video on Win7 only a small amount of the screen is covered, while in Win8 it masks the entire screen.

So while the changes may be hugely beneficial to tablets they are of questionable benefit on the desktop, as it is a complete paradigm shift. Now, Microsoft have made many changes from the Developer Preview and I'm still looking forward to Win8 - the performance improvements and additions like an improve Task Manager and file copying mean I really want to use it. I just hope Metro doesn't create more problems than it solves.

theyarecomingforyou said,
The trouble is that it's a huge transition for desktops, especially when some of the changes seem counter-productive (the number of steps to shut-down your system, for example). I installed the Developer Preview and I didn't find it intuitive at all - not being able to close Metro apps; different functionality if you click the Start orb to clicking the very corner; changing the taskbar to the top, the 'Start Menu' still appears when moving to the bottom left. Whereas I found the ribbon interface in Office 2007 to be completely intuitive, so despite being radically different I could still find everything I wanted and more.

The biggest problem with the Start Screen is that it completely takes over whatever you're doing. So if you're browsing a webpage or watching a video on Win7 only a small amount of the screen is covered, while in Win8 it masks the entire screen.

So while the changes may be hugely beneficial to tablets they are of questionable benefit on the desktop, as it is a complete paradigm shift. Now, Microsoft have made many changes from the Developer Preview and I'm still looking forward to Win8 - the performance improvements and additions like an improve Task Manager and file copying mean I really want to use it. I just hope Metro doesn't create more problems than it solves.

Yes - it is a major transition for desktops. However, when was the last time there was a desktop transition in the case of Windows?

Anyone with any historical Windows knowledge can tell you - it was when Windows NT 4.0 Workstation/Server went RTM - and that made the Windows 9x desktop the only real option that met with Microsoft approval. Basically, it made Windows environments homogenous in terms of desktops. If you never ran Windows NT 3.x (let alone *Windows* 3.x) or earlier, that would make the Windows 9x UI the only UI that you have been confronted with on desktops that ran any version of Windows. And how much has that paradigm changed since? Simple, really - it hasn't. That means, despite the changes elsewhere in Windows, the desktop UI paradigm has been as static as old hotel wall-to-wall in Tempe, AZ - in fact, it's actually the *least-changed* UI paradigm in all of non-niche computing - with the big two Linux-distribution desktops, and even MacOS having changed more than Windows. (Despite the disdain for Luna in Windows XP among some, the UI paradigm remained completely unchanged between Windows 2000 and Windows XP.)

And as far as the desktop itself goes, the Start menu (if you stay with Metro/Immersive) is all that's missing from the desktop. While *normally* it's a two-stage process to shut down from the desktop in Immersive view, there's a faster option - Ctrl+Alt+Del (which brings up Task Manager) and shut down from there. This trick has been around since NT 3.x (however, the 9x operating systems didn't have this designed into Task Manager) - this particular difference between the two code-bases (despite the UI homogenity) says something about the user base. Despite folks saying that they are desktop-centered, they are really *start menu* centered - the desktop itself hasn't gone anywhere, and has, at minimum, not lost any functions itself (aside from the Start menu being under lock and key for now). Applications and games that create desktop shortcuts (such as PopCap's Bejeweled 3) still do, and you can still launch from the desktop. Metro/Immersive apps are not big monolithic creatures, like their classic counterparts - most are, in fact, designed to be quite happy running in the background (not really closed per se); no Metro app is more representative of this than Immersive IE 10. Immersive IE 10 is much better behaved (as a background process/application) than any classic Web browser I've used in this Developer Preview. In fact, most classic browsers don't behave well when moved to the background - not even classic IE 10 (though it is better behaved than IE9).

theyarecomingforyou said,
The trouble is that it's a huge transition for desktops, especially when some of the changes seem counter-productive (the number of steps to shut-down your system, for example).

I have to disagree. When I am in the process of opening new programs, I dont care whats going on in the rest of the screen. I press start and start looking at start menu, and either start typing or browsing through. Then once I am done, I get back to app I had open or new app that I just started.

The problem is everything is only backed by data, it's entirely data-driven engineering and common sense takes a back seat. You have to make certain assumptions when you engineer a product entirely based on collected data. Most of the ones complaining about Metro are giving objective reasons on how or why it doesn't work. It's not ranting for the sake of it. I recommend you read the comments on the 3 blog posts related to the Start menu and Start screen.

So the new "all program" view have larger icons and bigger text than the traditional one, which mean it require more scrolling and time. Why every directory is expanded even though I only really want one folder expanded. ultimately Microsoft is trading efficiencies in for aesthetic style (not to mention Metro actually look **** in my opinion)

Metro UI really stinks, the first screen reminds me of Windows 3.11, that's sucks, what happened to Aero? I mean this new ideas are really coool and will be very useful but, still metro doesn't help munch!

mjedi7 said,
Metro UI really stinks, the first screen reminds me of Windows 3.11, that's sucks, what happened to Aero? I mean this new ideas are really coool and will be very useful but, still metro doesn't help munch!

i wonder if you ever used win 3.11 seriously... i bet you didn't.

and "first screen" really shows how you have tried to really understand the new UI.
since first its START SCREEN.
and second it surely doesn't look nor behaves like win 3.11

mjedi7 said,
Metro UI really stinks, the first screen reminds me of Windows 3.11, that's sucks, what happened to Aero? I mean this new ideas are really coool and will be very useful but, still metro doesn't help munch!

after a comment like this one, i stop reading the comments.

I'm using it every day as my main OS, but I am sticking to the desktop and occasionally popping into metro. Need more to play with, but it's stable enough for sure. I NEVER have to reboot, occasional end task. Just going to wait. I don't really like the look of the apps screen when searching, but I can get used to anything.

Still torn. I think for this to truly be accepted the Start Button concept needs to change, too. When you have that taskbar, then the old start button in the same place you expect it to work a certain way. It feels unnatural to click that start button and load up what seems like another environment. Maybe this will be done in beta or something. That's my two cents.

I just want them to treat the desktop as "just another app" (their words)

I'd rather them treat the two as 2 different experiences, rather than the desktop just be an app of the metro UI.

I really wish MS should not tied Metro and Windows together to tightly. It would be stupid to intertwine those two different paradigm and make them depend on each other. When I'm on my laptop, I don't want to mess around with metro. Metro belong on tablets and that is where it should only be. If I have to open up metro to fire up photoshop, then it's going to be a huge disappointment.

Well, I think that will be the case, but I'm just praying that if the Start Menu doesn't do well in the end, there are several third party programs that support the enabling or recreation of the Start Menu, which I know is not going to be as easy as the DP.

I have to say, I'm in two minds with this one. While all the developments seem to pushing great progress in the tablet aspects of computing, the desktop use seems to have something lacking. For my most common programs I, I hit the windows key and type the first few characters of the program and hit enter. That'll load the program I'm looking.

I just don't see myself being able to flick through pages of blocks of colour all the time, and I have a feeling its just going to be a lot of extra mouse movement in general to compensate for the immediate touch of from the finger.

sagum said,
I have to say, I'm in two minds with this one. While all the developments seem to pushing great progress in the tablet aspects of computing, the desktop use seems to have something lacking. For my most common programs I, I hit the windows key and type the first few characters of the program and hit enter. That'll load the program I'm looking.

I just don't see myself being able to flick through pages of blocks of colour all the time, and I have a feeling its just going to be a lot of extra mouse movement in general to compensate for the immediate touch of from the finger.

Good point, that is a huge speed increase that they are neglecting in that write up.

sagum said,
I have to say, I'm in two minds with this one. While all the developments seem to pushing great progress in the tablet aspects of computing, the desktop use seems to have something lacking. For my most common programs I, I hit the windows key and type the first few characters of the program and hit enter. That'll load the program I'm looking.

I just don't see myself being able to flick through pages of blocks of colour all the time, and I have a feeling its just going to be a lot of extra mouse movement in general to compensate for the immediate touch of from the finger.

You might want to try the developer preview, hitting start, typing a few characters and hitting enter still does the same thing it did in Windows 7! The search is just fullscreen but it's just as fast and just as effective.

Ambroos said,

You might want to try the developer preview, hitting start, typing a few characters and hitting enter still does the same thing it did in Windows 7! The search is just fullscreen but it's just as fast and just as effective.

They should add some first-time use hint to let users know they can type into the Start Screen.

Denis W said,

They should add some first-time use hint to let users know they can type into the Start Screen.

in the article they mention this. you don't have to WAIT for nothing. hit start and start typing, you don't have to wait for it to load.

"One small example of this net gain is the ability to press the Windows key and immediately start typing to search for an app"

how will it show a hint, if you can start typing when animations hasn't even finished =_=.

EmilyTheStrange said,

in the article they mention this. you don't have to WAIT for nothing. hit start and start typing, you don't have to wait for it to load.

"One small example of this net gain is the ability to press the Windows key and immediately start typing to search for an app"

how will it show a hint, if you can start typing when animations hasn't even finished =_=.

It's obvious to you and I, and maybe to Windows 7 converts, but what about new users?

I suppose users can find out the hard way by accidentally hitting a key and going "ahah

Denis W said,

It's obvious to you and I, and maybe to Windows 7 converts, but what about new users?

I suppose users can find out the hard way by accidentally hitting a key and going "ahah

Took me a while also, but this is a developer preview and I really think (and hope) that Microsoft will work on making the Metro GUI more intuitive with explanations and such for newcomers. The developer preview didn't need any of this and the GUI is not even complete on that version. At the same time we should of course continue to notice Microsoft about the problem(s)

Denis W said,

It's obvious to you and I, and maybe to Windows 7 converts, but what about new users?

I suppose users can find out the hard way by accidentally hitting a key and going "ahah

Sorry, respost thanks to page not reloading ... gah.

Denis W said,

It's obvious to you and I, and maybe to Windows 7 converts, but what about new users?

I suppose users can find out the hard way by accidentally hitting a key and going "ahah

thats the thing, how it will show something if you dont have to wait for something to load to start typing. and its not like animation takes too long either. and if they dont find it out, maybe its not like they need it so bad. i dont but i like racing and feel i do it fast xD

Ambroos said,

You might want to try the developer preview, hitting start, typing a few characters and hitting enter still does the same thing it did in Windows 7! The search is just fullscreen but it's just as fast and just as effective.

Not necessarily. As you can see, in the DP, they've categorized the content more firmly. This means that if a file is found, instead of an app, it won't display the file immediately, but a blank display showing that there are no apps. This happens with settings, which in my case I use a lot.

Example:
Typing "Programs and Features", "Windows Update", or other settings, won't be as easy as Start->Type->enter
It would be Start->Type->Select Settings->click the option.

Still... They need to polish more this feature, but I think is going on the good road.

Interesting, but I'll need to play with a more fully featured beta before making a decision. I know I'll be using Metro on my tablet, just uncertain of my PC right now (I may stick with the Win7 appearance).

zeke009 said,
Interesting, but I'll need to play with a more fully featured beta before making a decision. I know I'll be using Metro on my tablet, just uncertain of my PC right now (I may stick with the Win7 appearance).

It's about the Apps you use versus the Applications. Remember, Metro Apps require Metro Start.
If you prefer different usage scenarios, that's cool.
I think the apps will become so compelling that applications will fade, as will support costs for winddows over time.

zeke009 said,
Interesting, but I'll need to play with a more fully featured beta before making a decision. I know I'll be using Metro on my tablet, just uncertain of my PC right now (I may stick with the Win7 appearance).

Why do people think it's one or the other? Classic desktop coexists perfectly well alongside metro.

TCLN Ryster said,

Why do people think it's one or the other? Classic desktop coexists perfectly well alongside metro.

Simple, It works different .