Microsoft will force you to boot to Metro with Windows 8 and you will like it

Maybe you'll grow to love it?

With Windows 8, there are two distinct environments, Metro and the classic desktop. While each interface offers its own set of unique advantages, one option you won't have, according to Mary Jo Foley, is the ability to select which environment you boot into.

The post over at Zdnet and confirmed by Rafael Rivera (who has a new Windows 8 Secrets book out too), states that you cannot boot directly into the desktop experience and instead are forced to the new tiled interface. Of course, there are ways you can work around this and there are several keyboard shortcuts to get you back to the desktop as quickly as possible, but the idea that you cannot select where you boot too is a bit disappointing. 

With Microsoft making the Start screen default, the company is clearly trying to force users to use the new interface. More importantly, it also highlights that Metro should be the key focus of Windows 8 and is where Microsoft wants you to spend that majority of your time when using a PC.

This a bold strategy that will surely anger some who will swear up and down that they will not use Windows 8 because of this and that Microsoft is doomed. For the average consumer, they will likely not care if they can switch where they boot too, but for the power user, being forced into one environment without an easy toggle to make the switch, is nothing short of an annoying inconvenience. 

Source: Zdnet

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Simple fix:
Copy the "show desktop" shortcut from "C:\Users\Default\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch" to the start up folder.

Viola!

david said,
Simple fix:
Copy the "show desktop" shortcut from "C:\Users\Default\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch" to the start up folder.

Viola!

Or add this to the registry:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
"Shell"="explorer.exe /select,explorer.exe"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
"Shell"="explorer.exe /select,explorer.exe"

david said,

Or add this to the registry:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
"Shell"="explorer.exe /select,explorer.exe"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
"Shell"="explorer.exe /select,explorer.exe"

Or use this:

http://dm-moinmoin.deviantart....desktop-windows-8-307078343

---------------

Easy fixes people. Don't let this small problem get to you. Especially if you like Windows 8.

Microsoft will force nothing on my machines for sure

Yet another reason why all of my 5 personal machines will be missing Windows 8 entirely and approx 500 desktops I look after in the workplace will never see Win8.

The cost to retrain our users to utilise Windows 8 and its changes and features has made it a non-runner.
Win7 will be fine in our regulated industry and will be replaced with Windows (x) whichever one comes without fisher price Metro just before EOL for Win7 in 2020.

that sums it up in a nutshell W7 is avail to business way past Win8s life, an indicator its another "Win Me" and a quick release to generate a cash revenue to release the "real" OS after W8.

Betcha Metro is gone for desktops in W8s replacement when MS realise companies wont touch it with a bargepole. <(their biggest revenue stream) It will be interesting to see just how many Win 8 pros are rolled back to Win7..........;o)

Most of us in Biomed/Pharma are upgrading to W7 intime for XPs deathcall next year. Win8 was a nonstarter as its brand new and no doubt will follow MS usual fare with Operating Systems, wait till SP1 at least so others can experience and resolve the "showstopper" bugs.

If I wanted to give my users and myself a "fisher price" windows, id have bought them all V-tech "computers"

Edited by Mando, Aug 7 2012, 1:18pm :

Forcing Metro upon users was the next logical course of action. Windows Vista was rated by InfoWorld as No. 2 of Tech's all-time 25 flops. M$ need to take drastic measures to finally score No. 1 !

Meh... i installed classic shell 3.5.1, and that goes straight to desktop! ... i bypass metro immediatly! Brilliant

"we removed the start button because was not utilized so much, and for the same reason forced it to be the main hub to anything"

I don't see why all the fuss.

on windows 7: boot, click the start menu, open app (or type a few keys and press enter you power user you).

on windows 8: boot, open app.

besides, metro shows you a lot more of information or it shows you the same information you could have with widgets and programs that start up at boot (though they require more configuration - which might be a hassle for a normal user) in a better way.

perhaps the ones complaining have a NEED to see their wallpaper on fullscreen right away...

as for me, I think MS should have gone all the way and eliminate the desktop, allowing non-metro-style apps to run on fullscreen (like on Lion and up, where fullscreen apps have their own "space") and improved the way you can snap in different ways in the same screen (space or whatever you want to call it), not only snapping just one application to one third of the screen, but allowing two apps 50/50, horizontally, vertically and such...

because people don't all have their OS setup the same..
Mine for example is a bit unusual and i don't ever have icons on my desktop
and i rarely ever use my start menu (probably 25% of the time)

The problem arises in my opinion when MS has changed things for everyone at once.
And some of us are transitioning from 1 specific way of doings things and some of us other people are coming from a different way of doing things. SO i think its possible that the new changes are gonna be minor to some and major to others.
And here lye's the problem is many of the vocal Windows 8 users around here
can't get it through their thick skull that we are not all the same, doing things the same way.
So this it works for me and that's how i want my OS setup so everyone HAS to think like me or else everyone else is stupid routine is retarded !

The answer lye's with being objective i think.
And that is not gonna happen unless some people around here make the effort to imagine what things are like for both sides of the windows fans or haters.

Too me it (the windows 8 debate) seems pointless like having someone ask you a question
and then quickly plugging their ears and talking over you loudly..

I was just wondering, I have a windows phone and it has apps. My desktop on the other hand uses programs. Is this because apps use less resources in return for less functionality. I know windows phone is not very popular, but when I look through the app store on my phone there is nothing there that I would ever use or want to use. I have the apps my phone came with and that is it and even some of them I have gotten rid of because they served no purpose other then to drain the battery.

anyone know how you can alt-tab ? how do you switch quickly from apps to apps... ? I am sorry but from what I can understand you have to go through the metro UI click on the app to get back to it. Unless there's a quicker.

Can you still use windows explorer as main desktop ?You can still launch an app from window explorer ? ( I presume we can ) then you should be able to alt-tab and use multiple display ?

SLeeM@N said,
anyone know how you can alt-tab ? how do you switch quickly from apps to apps... ? I am sorry but from what I can understand you have to go through the metro UI click on the app to get back to it. Unless there's a quicker.

Can you still use windows explorer as main desktop ?You can still launch an app from window explorer ? ( I presume we can ) then you should be able to alt-tab and use multiple display ?

you can alt+tab to switch apps. if you were just using a Metro app, you can quickly switch between the two (metro and desktop app).

Win+tab will bring up the Metro switcher UI. once you switch to a Metro app, it is added to the alt+tab list, until it is idle for long enough that the system puts it on ice (not exactly sure how long), then you can't alt+tab to that Metro app unless you make it active again.

is it really so hard to click "Desktop" on the Start screen?

honestly the only time I remember that Metro is there is when my cursor hits one of the corners. otherwise, it's Windows 7 with a boxy UI and a full screen Start menu, that to be completely honest could maybe benefit from folders support.

Windows 8 will be a fiasco, I wonder how many "voluntary resignations" will occur when it fails miserably.

To be honest, I can understand why they did this, and as a matter of course, I generally wait until SP1 before considering any upgrades anyhow. It will be interesting to see how Windows 8 actually pans out in the months to come.

CrimsonBetrayal said,
To be honest, I can understand why they did this, and as a matter of course, I generally wait until SP1 before considering any upgrades anyhow. It will be interesting to see how Windows 8 actually pans out in the months to come.

SP-1 will give Microsoft the chance to add the functionality they chose to leave out of the initial release of Windows-8. (As in, restore a laptop/desktop friendly UI such as exists in Windows-7.)

Some questions for you-in-the-know. Can I have the start screen without all the differently colored tiles that make my eyes bleed? I mean, can you change the color of the green/purple/blue/yellow/etc tiles, or are they locked to program X? Can I change icons/text of the tiles? Can I put a picture that fills the entire tile? If the answer to all of these questions is yes, then I can probably live with Metro.

Frankenchrist said,
Some questions for you-in-the-know. Can I have the start screen without all the differently colored tiles that make my eyes bleed? I mean, can you change the color of the green/purple/blue/yellow/etc tiles, or are they locked to program X? Can I change icons/text of the tiles? Can I put a picture that fills the entire tile? If the answer to all of these questions is yes, then I can probably live with Metro.

The tile colors? That's determined by the programmer of the app. The default ones are a multi-colored mess because that's the colors Microsoft chose. Install different replacement apps and you won't have that problem.

So I have no say on the colors? I can't have an easy on the eyes "blueish theme" without green/purple/red tiles?

rfirth said,

The tile colors? That's determined by the programmer of the app. The default ones are a multi-colored mess because that's the colors Microsoft chose. Install different replacement apps and you won't have that problem.

Well it is called the START screen after all.
When you boot in to any version of windows, the first thing you do is start a programme, the start screen is the easiest way to do this.

Of course, the beauty of Windows is the third party programme support, so download a programme and use that to boot direct to desktop if you really must.

And the problem here is?

Need Desktop.. Click
Need anything else you may have setup on the startscreen .. Click

microsoft stop forcing the things, windows users like customization, you forced an interface on ie9 and its still crap, you are forcing metro that onlyt confuse common users, pro users productivity will go down with having to move more more clicks just to do simple things like checking battery life, going to settings and shut down....

Anyways stay with windows 7 people its the next XP.... WIndows 8 its ME not vista which its in the certain point bearable

eilegz said,
microsoft stop forcing the things, windows users like customization, you forced an interface on ie9 and its still crap, you are forcing metro that onlyt confuse common users, pro users productivity will go down with having to move more more clicks just to do simple things like checking battery life, going to settings and shut down....

Anyways stay with windows 7 people its the next XP.... WIndows 8 its ME not vista which its in the certain point bearable


They don't really force you. They always leave ways in for others to change the looks and feels of Windows. IE9 is just a graphical shell over the Trident engine. (btw MS never wanted to develop a browser, they just wanted to supply the engine for consistency purposes only)
Windows has always been customizable, its still there. Don't worry. Except they left out allot of default parts BY DEFAULT. To save space, speed, costs and more.
If you don't like how Win8 looks, theres a great app for that... BING and find the customisations you want... allot easier then customizing a Linux desktop, can tell you that

I for one hate the plain look, but love the basicness. But im just to lazy so far to customize it. I don't like the default colors, and black borders with black text doesn't work either

So, you boot into the Start Screen. Same as the desktop, you click on an icon, and - boom - your app is launched, and if it's an x64 app, it'll take you to the desktop anyway. It's no big deal when you think about it. Same amount of clicks.

More reasons to hate Win8.

Never thought I would do it but I am skipping this one.

Also I can not even imagine the backlash I would get at work (I work in IT) if we moved to Win8. We got a ton of **** from users moving to Office 2007, then to Win7. Moving to this bag of fail would just flip everyone out.

Edited by necrosis, Aug 6 2012, 7:50pm :

necrosis said,
More reasons to hate Win8.

Never thought I would do it but I am skipping this one.

Also I can not even imagine the backlash I would get at work (I work in IT) if we moved to Win8. We got a ton of **** from users moving to Office 2007, then to Win7. Moving to this bag of fail would just flip everyone out.

I think your users just dislike change, especially if Windows 7 was hated (which I believe the press almost universally likes).

Win8 = vista (again) I will avoid it till win9 which as usual in another 2-3 years. They really need to slow down on the releases now.

sava700 said,
Win8 = vista (again) I will avoid it till win9 which as usual in another 2-3 years. They really need to slow down on the releases now.

Win95 to Win98 to WinMe to Win2K to WinXP = too many releases, we are being *forced* to pay the Microsoft tax

WinXP to Vista = they are too far behind the competition, the other guys are releasing a new version every year and XP has been around for 6 years!

Vista to Win7 = they need to hurry up and release a new version right away

Win7 to Win8 = too soon, we need more time, they should wait another 2-3 years

Win8 to Win9 (if released in 2 to 3 years) = they waited too long, we need a new version right away

nohone said,

Win95 to Win98 to WinMe to Win2K to WinXP = too many releases, we are being *forced* to pay the Microsoft tax

WinXP to Vista = they are too far behind the competition, the other guys are releasing a new version every year and XP has been around for 6 years!

Vista to Win7 = they need to hurry up and release a new version right away

Win7 to Win8 = too soon, we need more time, they should wait another 2-3 years

Win8 to Win9 (if released in 2 to 3 years) = they waited too long, we need a new version right away


LOL erm go check those windowses before XP and in particular look at their names

Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows 98SE (officially a separate OS due to the amount of changes)
Windows ME
Windows 2000

And you think WinVista->Win7->Win8 is fast? In the same time period 1,5 decade ago, they released not 3, not 4, but 5 mainstream windows OS( ignoring O/S2 and server versions, add all those and its like 10 OS's in the same 6 years or something)
And guess what, back then IT guys and gamers where always up to date for sure.

That decision will slow down Windows-8 adoption by the general business/laptop/desktop user venues. This presents a great opportunity for third-party companies to come up with a Registry hack or some kind of "overlay" software to give users the Windows-7 UI upon booting up.

TsarNikky said,
That decision will slow down Windows-8 adoption by the general business/laptop/desktop user venues. This presents a great opportunity for third-party companies to come up with a Registry hack or some kind of "overlay" software to give users the Windows-7 UI upon booting up.

What business was going to immediately upgrade to Windows 8 if they just now finished their upgrade to Windows 7?

ikyouCrow said,
my take away from this?

we will keep saying Metro and Metro-style apps regardless of what MS changes the name to.


comment win.

ikyouCrow said,
my take away from this?

we will keep saying Metro and Metro-style apps regardless of what MS changes the name to.

QFT !

cookie ?

naw hell no get this man a whole box !

I don't even like the look of metro. It looks like their target audience are 8 year old children that like bright colors and cartoons.

Deihmos said,
I don't even like the look of metro. It looks like their target audience are 8 year old children that like bright colors and cartoons.

If you don't like the tile, install a different app. Install an app that doesn't use a brightly colored tile. Problem solved.

Deihmos said,
I don't even like the look of metro. It looks like their target audience are 8 year old children that like bright colors and cartoons.

This argument would be so much more valid if not for all the "srs bzns" users you can see any day of the week in Neowin's own desktop screenshots threads.

You know, the ones with soft-core 'nography plastered across their "workstation" as if they're a bunch of horny 14 year old boys.

Truth is, if your desktop design reflects your personality, I think far less of power users than I think of Windows 8 fans.

Tamatea said,
Windows 7 is going to last as long as Windows XP ?

More than likely, much longer. As 2020 gets close and MS realizes the millions of users "still" on Windows-7 (and maybe XP?), I can see that support "ending date" being extended. There is always the chance that MS, realizing their mistake, comes out with a Windows-8 SP1, or even a Windows-9 that give users a choice of UI (which should have always been available).

Tamatea said,
Windows 7 is going to last as long as Windows XP ?

Call Microsoft and ask ?

I doubt they will give you an answer so maybe try a fortune teller ?

My opinion ?
Doesn't matter.. I'm not big on speculation
who knows

johnporter29 said,
but we knew this already! nothing new here

actually you and all the people that said that on this topic before you need to remember 2 things.

One if you have been here long enough you would remember every second sentence from all the fanboys was "It's not done yet.."
So, its done now.

2nd Not everyone used the Win 8 betas etc
This is a news site so uhhh they are putting up news..
If you already knew the answer then good for you congrats lol

Another tacky move from Microsoft, proof if everyone needed it that they're trying to force people to use their crapware start screen.

Snake89 said,

that'll be full of useless ADs down the road.

Got a source for the news that Microsoft will be adding advertisement to the start screen? No of course you don't, because you're just spouting nonsense.

Snake89 said,

Here's some source:
Microsoft Advertising SDK for Windows 8
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...506371%28v=msads.10%29.aspx

The webpage you linked said,

This beta release of the Microsoft Advertising SDK for Windows 8 allows developers to write fully-working code for inserting ads into Windows 8 apps.

No, that's for developers to embed advertisements in apps, not on the start screen.

Any more sources to back up your drivel?

Ricardo Dawkins said,

Maybe we should stay on XP..heck even NASA used it while landing Curiosity.

Your PC going to go make a spacecraft do an interplanetary mission that takes years of work and the mission itself takes almost a full year until landing?

Windows Nashville said,

Comment fail.

Why exactly? Start8 has a "boot straight to desktop" feature. What part of my comment "failed" in your eyes, troll?

Ricardo Dawkins said,

Maybe we should stay on XP..heck even NASA used it while landing Curiosity.

Dodo bird brain is here again!

I prefer it to boot into the start screen. That way I can see any updates on my live tiles, check email and people, etc. I just wish that I got updates while in the desktop for apps that have new status (I would like to choose a couple in particular to be able to update me when there are new items to check out). I installed the RP for my wife over the weekend. Her only grievance was stuff not working the way she was used to in metro IE10. I set it up to open links on the desktop version and she was good to go.

Routerbad said,
I prefer it to boot into the start screen.

Same.. first thing I typically do in Windows 7 (or any other DE for that matter) is bring up the menu and launch something anyway... if anything it's a convenience, granted a very minor time saver. And as mentioned countless times before, third party add-on will get you straight to the desktop if you prefer to look at your wallpaper first, no tears required.

While each interface offers its own set of unique advantages, one option you won't have, according to Mary Jo Foley, is the ability to select which environment you boot into.

I don't see why this is news since it's been that way since like the consumer preview? It's not like they made this a sudden new change with RTM.

Also if you don't like it, stardock's start8 works perfectly or you can just click the desktop tile.

i remember when microsoft disallowed users to login into DOS prompt directly, i was so mad, but now i rarely bring up the CMD window.

deadonthefloor said,

I do however live inside the Powershell v3 ISE.
Oh, why can't I boot to powershell...
Oh on server I can !!!!

PowerShell has been available for desktop Windows since it went RTW (it first went RTW along with Windows XP Service Pack 2); however, like Search, it's been horribly underutilized on the desktop side of Windows.

TechNet Library - Introduction to Windows Power Shell - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb978526.aspx

Scar said,
I'll stick to windows 7. Not making the Vista mistake again when XP was serving me just fine.

Amen. My office got badly burned. Never again!

Scar said,
I'll stick to windows 7. Not making the Vista mistake again when XP was serving me just fine.

good,and take some of those other whiners with you. we wont have to listen to a bunch of children crying anymore. good riddance

vcfan said,

good,and take some of those other whiners with you. we wont have to listen to a bunch of children crying anymore. good riddance

We are hardly "children." On the contrary, we have a business to run and, hopefully, make a profit to pay our employees, taxes, and investors. We can hardly afford the needless expense to moving from a perfectly good OS geared to our laptops and desktops and their associated applications for an OS that is geared to touch-centric tablets.

TsarNikky said,

We are hardly "children." On the contrary, we have a business to run and, hopefully, make a profit to pay our employees, taxes, and investors. We can hardly afford the needless expense to moving from a perfectly good OS geared to our laptops and desktops and their associated applications for an OS that is geared to touch-centric tablets.

good for you.then stop wasting your time cluttering the comments with your useless drivel. im sure microsoft wont miss your money,and the people that like it wont miss your useless attention seeking comments.

vcfan said,

good for you.then stop wasting your time cluttering the comments with your useless drivel. im sure microsoft wont miss your money,and the people that like it wont miss your useless attention seeking comments.


I just love your useless attention seeking comments. Now, after you banned everyone that doesn't like Windows 8, we can finally live in peace on Neowin...

vcfan said,

good,and take some of those other whiners with you. we wont have to listen to a bunch of children crying anymore. good riddance

So because I don't fancy Windows 8 I'm automatically a child?, far too many "mature" keyboard warriors lately. Clown.

vcfan said,

good for you.then stop wasting your time cluttering the comments with your useless drivel. im sure microsoft wont miss your money,and the people that like it wont miss your useless attention seeking comments.

You have been attention seeking with your pointless e-rage over an operating system. Calm down, I'm a HUGE Microsoft supporter myself and do understand that different people have different opinions. Seriously, your attempt at loyalty in the comments section here won't guarantee you a job mopping floors in their headquarters at Redmond.

It's very hard to understand why Microsoft doesn't listen to a substantial amount of its user base that want a direct access to desktop mode.

This legitimate request has nothing to do with a childish desire to avoid change. Some users spend their days working within the desktop (most IT professionals for example) and will never, during their work hours, need the "Metro" experience. And the forced transition to the new "Metro" Start screen is very visually disruptive.

Aside from creating frustrated users, this stubborn attitude will not yield anything good. Pushing "Metro" in the users throat is not the way to create "acceptance".

Bad move.

TheCyberKnight said,
It's very hard to understand why Microsoft doesn't listen to a substantial amount of its user base that want a direct access to desktop mode.

It's quite simple actually: the whole reason of Metro on the desktop is getting users to familiarize with the UI to help push their phones and tablets.

If they provided an easy way for users to stay away from Metro, then the point would be defeated.

TheCyberKnight said,
It's very hard to understand why Microsoft doesn't listen to a substantial amount of its user base that want a direct access to desktop mode.

This legitimate request has nothing to do with a childish desire to avoid change. Some users spend their days working within the desktop (most IT professionals for example) and will never, during their work hours, need the "Metro" experience. And the forced transition to the new "Metro" Start screen is very visually disruptive.

Aside from creating frustrated users, this stubborn attitude will not yield anything good. Pushing "Metro" in the users throat is not the way to create "acceptance".

Bad move.

Substantial maybe, but in the grand scheme of things only a relatively small number of all PC users are making noise over this. Most of them being the usual vocal lot who seem to moan about anything and everything

I am not averse to having this as an option though, like you say, many IT professionals will have no use for Metro apps (however good they may be, when they come) during their work hours. Last time I checked, Microsoft were not planning to release Metro versions of ADUC, DNS Management, DHCP Management, etc. That said though, those IT professionals are the ones who are more likely to have multiple monitors, in which case you get the best of both worlds. Desktop on one, Metro on the other for your email, internet, etc.

TheCyberKnight said,
It's very hard to understand why Microsoft doesn't listen to a substantial amount of its user base that want a direct access to desktop mode.

Numbers to back up that "substantial amount" claim?

efjay said,

Numbers to back up that "substantial amount" claim?

I have no "hard" numbers to back the statement up. Meanwhile, if you do some quick maths and consider the developers base, the IT staff base and people that stare at a screen using Win32 based software (that does or will not exist in Metro) all day long, you end up with a sizeable/substantial audience.

It may not, in sheer numbers, reach the size of the casual user base but in terms of hours spent using the OS, it does represent major numbers.

Also, considering this issue is Windows 8 related only and that this professional audience will likely deploy the OS at a faster rate within their relative group than the general public, the number remains significant.

There were decent alternatives proposed during the Preview phases and Microsoft decided to ignore them all. It is unfortunate. And again, pushing the Metro experience in the users throats, even when they want to opt-out, is not the way to create acceptance.

TheCyberKnight said,
It's very hard to understand why Microsoft doesn't listen to a substantial amount of its user base that want a direct access to desktop mode.

This legitimate request has nothing to do with a childish desire to avoid change. Some users spend their days working within the desktop (most IT professionals for example) and will never, during their work hours, need the "Metro" experience. And the forced transition to the new "Metro" Start screen is very visually disruptive.

Aside from creating frustrated users, this stubborn attitude will not yield anything good. Pushing "Metro" in the users throat is not the way to create "acceptance".

Bad move.

Sorry, but we're not a "substantial amount". Microsoft wants to deliver Windows to consumers, not power users who make up a small amount of the user base.

Dot Matrix said,

Sorry, but we're not a "substantial amount". Microsoft wants to deliver Windows to consumers, not power users who make up a small amount of the user base.

Then, I stick to the point I defended for months on this:
Let the users decide whether they want a "touch-first" primary experience (which is going to be the case for casual and tablet users) or a primary "desktop" experience (which is going to be the case for most professionals). It was simple and would have prevented this whole snafu.

On top of this, Windows RT (the ARM version) that is directly aimed at consumers is basically a mandatory "touch-first" experience since there will be no way (aside from the pre-installed Office) to add "desktop" mode applications. The problem doesn't exist there.

Face it, Microsoft remained stubborn on this for the wrong reason.

Dot Matrix said,

Sorry, but we're not a "substantial amount". Microsoft wants to deliver Windows to consumers, not power users who make up a small amount of the user base.


If they wanted to deliver just to consumers, the Win32API would be completely gone (see WinRT). (ignoring IE10 and Office for it ofc )
The reason we still got a desktop and Win32API is because of power users and professionals.

TheCyberKnight said,
It's very hard to understand why Microsoft doesn't listen to a substantial amount of its user base that want a direct access to desktop mode.

This legitimate request has nothing to do with a childish desire to avoid change. Some users spend their days working within the desktop (most IT professionals for example) and will never, during their work hours, need the "Metro" experience. And the forced transition to the new "Metro" Start screen is very visually disruptive.

Aside from creating frustrated users, this stubborn attitude will not yield anything good. Pushing "Metro" in the users throat is not the way to create "acceptance".

Bad move.

you're a moron if you still dont comprehend that this is the new user interface,and the desktop is there to run old programs only. it is not a touch only ui, you are just not bright enough to comprehend.

good comment !

Not sure why fanboys need to try and argue with YOUR opinion.
Curious why they are so invested in Trolling around trying to bicker and argue with every single person that has a complaint with Windows 8.
Very strange !

Too many people think what you said and the exact number is irrelevant.

Cheerleaders need to get over them selves and realize the world doesn't revolve around them and their opinions are not facts.. just another opinion..
and you know what they say about opinions ?
If you do you what i think of these Cheerleaders

I am Not PCyr said,
good comment !

Not sure why fanboys need to try and argue with YOUR opinion.
Curious why they are so invested in Trolling around trying to bicker and argue with every single person that has a complaint with Windows 8.
Very strange !

Too many people think what you said and the exact number is irrelevant.

Cheerleaders need to get over them selves and realize the world doesn't revolve around them and their opinions are not facts.. just another opinion..
and you know what they say about opinions ?
If you do you what i think of these Cheerleaders

Neither does it revolve around the haters. Also the sheer amount of hypocrisy in your post is almost breathtaking. You lot are the worst for peddling your opinions as "fact".

At least when I state an opinion I post up my reasons for believing that. Many of your haters are just hating for hates sake and never explain why. And when you do, you get all upset when somebody rebuts/debunks your "reasons".

I guess my main gripe is this... if you really hate Windows 8 THAT much... why are you even wasting typing energy bitching and moaning about it? Is it beyond your abilities to simply ignore it? Why do you have to vigorously attack it, all the while trying to influence other peoples opinions of it, and spoiling it for those of us who DO like it?

Edited by Ryster, Aug 7 2012, 12:01am :

vcfan said,

you're a moron if you still dont comprehend that this is the new user interface,and the desktop is there to run old programs only. it is not a touch only ui, you are just not bright enough to comprehend.

Me, a moron? I don't think so.

I've been using Windows since 1985, every single version that was publicly released. I also am a skilled software architect designing and developing advanced software solutions using the latest technologies. I think I know my subject when talking Windows.
The WinRT API is not going to replace desktop development anytime soon and it has been designed for touch-first experiences. Furthermore, the native OS API (let's still call it Win32) has been, as usual, enhanced with the Windows 8 release.

Now, who's the moron? Please educate yourself before TRYING to insult other forum members.
And by the way, Microsoft did a bad move by forcing the Metro Start screen. That's my opinion and I stand by it.

ichi said,

It's quite simple actually: the whole reason of Metro on the desktop is getting users to familiarize with the UI to help push their phones and tablets.

If they provided an easy way for users to stay away from Metro, then the point would be defeated.

Obviously, you've never used ANY version of Windows on any sort of portable PC - even a laptop.

One thing that has been chewing up my days, nights, and weekends (for most of the past few years) is supporting Windows on portable PCs (laptops and notebooks). Portables (laptops and notebooks) share several issues with netbooks/tablets/slates (besides being their direct ancestor) -

1. They don't have the computing horsepower of desktops.
2. They don't have the graphical horsepower of most desktops.
3. They decidedly lack the screen resolution of all but the wimpiest of corporate-stable/consumer-stable desktops.

How do you address these issues? Win32 has done a poor job of it just on the application front - if anything, the Win32 *gaming* front is even worse. Enter WinRT. While it does support touch, it also supports keyboard and mouse interaction (it is, after all, based largely on the framework of Win32). However, unlike Win32, it lacks (by design) support for MDI (which is why windowed WinRT apps or games don't exist, *and* why a side-mounted RT app or game looks really odd) and it is aimed primarily at lower resolutions common on portable PCs (not the case for desktops). Where WinRT will likely gain traction (on traditional hardware) is on portables (not just tablets, slates, and netbooks, but those other form-factors that share those same graphical challenges - notebooks and laptops).

TCLN Ryster said,

Neither does it revolve around the haters. Also the sheer amount of hypocrisy in your post is almost breathtaking. You lot are the worst for peddling your opinions as "fact".

At least when I state an opinion I post up my reasons for believing that. Many of your haters are just hating for hates sake and never explain why. And when you do, you get all upset when somebody rebuts/debunks your "reasons".

I guess my main gripe is this... if you really hate Windows 8 THAT much... why are you even wasting typing energy bitching and moaning about it? Is it beyond your abilities to simply ignore it? Why do you have to vigorously attack it, all the while trying to influence other peoples opinions of it, and spoiling it for those of us who DO like it?

Your just mad because i make you look bad constantly by pointing
out crippling and shocking flaws in your logic.

And you can run around trying to minimize the negative views on Windows 8 all you want it make no difference at all in any way shape or form.

The big difference here buddy is I'm not trolling around like you bitching and arguing with people that LIKE windows 8. They are 100% entitled to like it all they want and i have at no point gone out of my way to target anyone for saying they like it. Which is precisely what you are doing. Almost every person that says something negative about windows 8 you dive on them and start an argument and try and discredit them as much as possible.

All i've done is defend the people you are effectivly harrasing because i agree with these people and THEY DO HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK THEIR MIND
even if you desperately want to silence them all !

Quit picking on people and i will have a whole lot less to say !

By the way.. Windows 8 STILL sucks .

Well if this is the future of Windows, Microsoft need to pull their finger out and show that Metro can do more than a load of social networking rubbish. Where is the Metro-*only* Office? Visual Studio? Or can't the future handle complicated applications?

If the desktop is intended to remain with Metro as just a fancy start menu, Microsoft need to treat it as such.

I loved the original Metro concepts, but so far all I see is an OS with more style than substance.

Fourjays said,
Well if this is the future of Windows, Microsoft need to pull their finger out and show that Metro can do more than a load of social networking rubbish. Where is the Metro-*only* Office? Visual Studio? Or can't the future handle complicated applications?

If the desktop is intended to remain with Metro as just a fancy start menu, Microsoft need to treat it as such.

I loved the original Metro concepts, but so far all I see is an OS with more style than substance.


Oh give it time. Its still in its infancy. Or did you expect Android 1.0 was perfect in every single way too. (or even 2.0 for that matter)

Fourjays said,
Well if this is the future of Windows, Microsoft need to pull their finger out and show that Metro can do more than a load of social networking rubbish. Where is the Metro-*only* Office? Visual Studio? Or can't the future handle complicated applications?

If the desktop is intended to remain with Metro as just a fancy start menu, Microsoft need to treat it as such.

I loved the original Metro concepts, but so far all I see is an OS with more style than substance.

One does not recreate apps that have existed for decades in 1 year (that's how long the APIs have existed).

Shadowzz said,

Oh give it time. Its still in its infancy. Or did you expect Android 1.0 was perfect in every single way too. (or even 2.0 for that matter)

i think he expects Microsoft to be prepared to have a couple of their flagship products ready to go.
Considering the Metro crap is all about integration then why not be able to show it ?
Replies on this guy are stupid .
No one is expecting MS to ship rtm with everything 7 had.
What some people are saying where the hell is MS's VStudio and Office ?
And if thats too much to ask then they should have delayed W8
until those two could be prepared for a Metro tile crap version.

What the hell is with the logic around here ?

Agreed with Fourjays !

Power users hibernate so this will only be a "problem" once in a while. Having said that, it's hardly a big issue to see the Start Screen on startup. Think of it as a dashboard with live tiles updating you to all the important things you need to start your day.

jakem1 said,
Power users hibernate so this will only be a "problem" once in a while. Having said that, it's hardly a big issue to see the Start Screen on startup. Think of it as a dashboard with live tiles updating you to all the important things you need to start your day.

I consider myself a serious power user and I don't ever hibernate because resuming from hibernation takes a lot longer than a regular boot.

Ambroos said,

I consider myself a serious power user and I don't ever hibernate because resuming from hibernation takes a lot longer than a regular boot.

Or me, I never even turn my PC off

JaredFrost said,
I disagree, power users don't turn their computers off.

I disagree. Seen the power bills recently?

Raa said,

I disagree. Seen the power bills recently?

A true power user is unconcerned with trivial issues such as cost when it comes to running their electronics.

PS: Energy cost is relatively low where I am, around 80+% of our energy comes from hydro.

Raa said,

I disagree. Seen the power bills recently?

A properly configured laptop will sleep at <3W. A properly configured desktop will sleep at <10W. Perhaps you should check and see if your computer is going into deep sleep or not.

I still don't understand why anyone would want to boot to the Desktop in Windows 8. Without the Start Menu, it's a bland and useless environment until you start some applications (which would then require you to go to the "Metro-style" Start screen anyway).

xpxp2002 said,
I still don't understand why anyone would want to boot to the Desktop in Windows 8. Without the Start Menu, it's a bland and useless environment until you start some applications (which would then require you to go to the "Metro-style" Start screen anyway).

speechless (But not speechless enough to not leave a comment )

A small program that runs at boot that emulates a Win key press should do the trick. But I don't see the point. It's just a simple key press, you can do it yourself...

How is this news? It's been like this since the CP hasn't it? What has changed? Or is this just somebody's attempt to stir things up again?

Unless of course they're saying that the likes of Start8's boot to desktop functionality wont work now either?

gregalto said,
You could switch the boot option in previous releases.

Wow, that's news to me. How was it accomplished?

gregalto said,
You could switch the boot option in previous releases.

No you couldn't. Not unless you messed around with the operating system using unsupported methods.

gregalto said,
You could switch the boot option in previous releases.

Congrats for not testing any versions of Windows 8 but still giving opinions. /s

Tell us in what version of Windows 8 you could chose between desktop and metro at startup?

Calum said,

No you couldn't. Not unless you messed around with the operating system using unsupported methods.

running a simple script at startup is not a unsupported method.

TCLN Ryster said,
How is this news? It's been like this since the CP hasn't it? What has changed? Or is this just somebody's attempt to stir things up again?

Unless of course they're saying that the likes of Start8's boot to desktop functionality wont work now either?

LOL
did we forget the tag line you guys were spamming all over ?

"It's not done yet" with a snotty attitude..

I should go dig up some of the many comments and parade them around lol

I am Not PCyr said,

LOL
did we forget the tag line you guys were spamming all over ?

"It's not done yet" with a snotty attitude..

I should go dig up some of the many comments and parade them around lol

Wut?

Buzz99 said,

running a simple script at startup is not a unsupported method.


Microsoft did not add an official feature to allow people to boot straight to the Desktop. That is what I meant by any such modifications being "unsupported."

Running a simple script would be unsupported because if anything went wrong with your Windows installation as a result of it (unlikely or perhaps even impossible), Microsoft would not support you for it, due to you messing around with the operating system in a way they don't support.

Calum said,

Microsoft did not add an official feature to allow people to boot straight to the Desktop. That is what I meant by any such modifications being "unsupported."

Running a simple script would be unsupported because if anything went wrong with your Windows installation as a result of it (unlikely or perhaps even impossible), Microsoft would not support you for it, due to you messing around with the operating system in a way they don't support.


If Windows breaks due to a startup script, it's time to abandon Microsoft products for ever...

MFH said,

If Windows breaks due to a startup script, it's time to abandon Microsoft products for ever...

That was just an example. I was talking about user error, not Microsoft developer error. If someone used a startup script that formatted the drive that had Windows installed, you wouldn't be able to blame Microsoft for that.

Calum said,

Microsoft did not add an official feature to allow people to boot straight to the Desktop. That is what I meant by any such modifications being "unsupported."


Running a simple script would be unsupported because if anything went wrong with your Windows installation as a result of it (unlikely or perhaps even impossible), Microsoft would not support you for it, due to you messing around with the operating system in a way they don't support.

This is what I mean by a simple script :

http://www.techspot.com/guides/551-bypass-metro/

3dfxman said,
Thank god for third party programs.

It has to be said though : Why are we forced to use them?

/me shakes head

Why wouldn't you want your updates on e-mail, calendar notifications, weather, etc., and quick launch shortcuts for your applications right in front of you when you start up your computer? Why would you want a blank desktop wallpaper? --- Unless you customize it with Rainmeter and copy the functions of the Start Screen to the Desktop.

Yes, a lot of people won't be spending their time going deep into Metro apps, but a lot of people will be setting up Metro apps and using them like they used Desktop Gadgets & the Sidebar. Its annoying that people think of the Start Screen as a "tablet environment" only.

brianshapiro said,
Why wouldn't you want your updates on e-mail, calendar notifications, weather, etc., and quick launch shortcuts for your applications right in front of you when you start up your computer? Why would you want a blank desktop wallpaper?

Personally I'd rather not be greeted by something that is already "alive with activity" when I start my computer to do something. Maybe that's just me.

As a user of Windows 8 and a fan of anything that shakes up computing paradigms, I agree and disagree.

I like what the Start Screen *wants* to be. In practice, tiles do not update quickly enough for me. The OS needs to start grabbing that data as soon as it can. Smartphone widgets update as soon as they can, and weather/email/feeds are rushing to refresh. That simply isn't the case right now with Windows 8 tiles.

If my PC has been on for 20 minutes, my People hub shouldn't be updating the What's New feed after I've already loaded it into view. I expect that info to be up-to-date as part of the process that updates the tile. If my email tile says I have two new messages, I shouldn't have to launch my inbox and stare at it while it THEN downloads them (this doesn't always happen, but it happens enough).

I understand resource management and that what I'm asking for is a bunch of background tasking, but I'm speaking in high levels terms here. It's about UX, not technical limitations. The metro experience is ENTIRELY about UX, so behavior decisions need to start as high level as possible.

CJEric said,

Personally I'd rather not be greeted by something that is already "alive with activity" when I start my computer to do something. Maybe that's just me.

Then disable the live tile activity Its all static then

Joshie said,
....

Agreed, the metro experience doesn't feel as fluid as it should be. Its certainly lacking allot and if they'd improve on it, it can be as awesome as they make it is.
I'd love the support of back and forth buttons (really MS.. common its easy ) and ability of metro apps running in some actual windowed more form.
I do like this initial work and understand its all still a work in progress, its a first in history for such a drastical change on desktop basically.
We all graduadly went into GUIs from DOS, took time and I saw allot of windows like applications before I ever even saw my first Windows. The 'drastical' move from the ... what you can call a taskbar from the top and moved it to the bottom and combining a few functions into one. This bar then slowly evolved into the .. well advanced run menu we all come to love in Win7. (what else does anyone use it for besides typing to run, or shortcut to explorer or control panel)
To a multiple-device wide GUI designed for not just keyboard and mouse, but multi touch, accelerators and more. Which is still in its infant shoes.
But they left it so its barely in the way if you don't want to use it. You can easily break it out (the Linux way, don't like it.. force it upon the OS... still don't get why this is beloved on Linux but frowned upon in Windows) Or just click that big fat giant Desktop icon and be done with it
You can still create those 'fancy' custom toolbars

brianshapiro said,
/me shakes head

Why wouldn't you want your updates on e-mail, calendar notifications, weather, etc., and quick launch shortcuts for your applications right in front of you when you start up your computer? Why would you want a blank desktop wallpaper? --- Unless you customize it with Rainmeter and copy the functions of the Start Screen to the Desktop.

Yes, a lot of people won't be spending their time going deep into Metro apps, but a lot of people will be setting up Metro apps and using them like they used Desktop Gadgets & the Sidebar. Its annoying that people think of the Start Screen as a "tablet environment" only.

I could give an endless stream of examples but i'll stick with one.

I have killed every conceivable extra bloated piece of crap on my machine
for increased computing power, whether it be I'm trying to run a game such as GTA 4 at high settings or I'm doing what i do daily which is run media center, video encoding, downloading, surfing, and word processing etc etc etc
Basically the more i can get out of the machine i overclocked the better.
I have no use or need or desire for any Metro cr'apps.
And because of that i shouldn't have useless bloated garbage jammed down my throat.

Want a dozen more reasons why ?

And now it's my turn to shake my head..

Shadowzz said,

Agreed, the metro experience doesn't feel as fluid as it should be. Its certainly lacking allot and if they'd improve on it, it can be as awesome as they make it is.
I'd love the support of back and forth buttons (really MS.. common its easy ) and ability of metro apps running in some actual windowed more form.
I do like this initial work and understand its all still a work in progress, its a first in history for such a drastical change on desktop basically.
We all graduadly went into GUIs from DOS, took time and I saw allot of windows like applications before I ever even saw my first Windows. The 'drastical' move from the ... what you can call a taskbar from the top and moved it to the bottom and combining a few functions into one. This bar then slowly evolved into the .. well advanced run menu we all come to love in Win7. (what else does anyone use it for besides typing to run, or shortcut to explorer or control panel)
To a multiple-device wide GUI designed for not just keyboard and mouse, but multi touch, accelerators and more. Which is still in its infant shoes.
But they left it so its barely in the way if you don't want to use it. You can easily break it out (the Linux way, don't like it.. force it upon the OS... still don't get why this is beloved on Linux but frowned upon in Windows) Or just click that big fat giant Desktop icon and be done with it
You can still create those 'fancy' custom toolbars

I'm glad you brought up DOS. A lot of people seem to have forgotten it when they say argue that Microsoft is forcing people to work in two completely different environments with two completely different sets of metaphors.

For decades we sat with the dueling user experiences of--essentially--terminal and GUI. From the terminal, only our keyboards are of any use. From the GUI, keyboards input is accompanied by mouse navigation. These two [drastically] different styles of using a PC coexisted.

Windows has all but eliminated any reason to use a terminal for a comically high majority of users. This is something Linux not only hasn't been able to do, but practically refuses to do. While almost every command line activity has a GUI equivalent in Windows, there remain actions in Linux that require pulling up that terminal.

All Windows is doing, by modifying the metaphor, is updating the dual-environment configuration from terminal+GUI to GUI+gestureUI.

Instead of thinking of the Start screen as an obstacle to the desktop, the start screen IS the OS--the desktop is now effectively an app, and is best thought of as such (in fact, by thinking of the desktop as an app launched from the start screen, Windows 8 starts to make a whole lot more sense). We launch the windowed UI from the gestureUI, much as we launched (and, in Linux--tho transparently--still do launch) the windowed UI from a command prompt.

I am Not PCyr said,

I could give an endless stream of examples but i'll stick with one.

I have killed every conceivable extra bloated piece of crap on my machine
for increased computing power, whether it be I'm trying to run a game such as GTA 4 at high settings or I'm doing what i do daily which is run media center, video encoding, downloading, surfing, and word processing etc etc etc
Basically the more i can get out of the machine i overclocked the better.
I have no use or need or desire for any Metro cr'apps.
And because of that i shouldn't have useless bloated garbage jammed down my throat.

Want a dozen more reasons why ?

And now it's my turn to shake my head..


Your argument would hold more water if not for the fact that games tend to get better performance out of Windows 8 than previous versions of the OS.

If all of those tiles can exist while the OS still gives your game a boost over how you'd experience it in Windows XP/7, you need to come up with a better argument.

Hint: saying "well think how it'd be even BETTER without the tiles" doesn't exactly cut it.

Joshie said,

I'm glad you brought up DOS. A lot of people seem to have forgotten it when they say argue that Microsoft is forcing people to work in two completely different environments with two completely different sets of metaphors.

For decades we sat with the dueling user experiences of--essentially--terminal and GUI. From the terminal, only our keyboards are of any use. From the GUI, keyboards input is accompanied by mouse navigation. These two [drastically] different styles of using a PC coexisted.

Windows has all but eliminated any reason to use a terminal for a comically high majority of users. This is something Linux not only hasn't been able to do, but practically refuses to do. While almost every command line activity has a GUI equivalent in Windows, there remain actions in Linux that require pulling up that terminal.

All Windows is doing, by modifying the metaphor, is updating the dual-environment configuration from terminal+GUI to GUI+gestureUI.

Instead of thinking of the Start screen as an obstacle to the desktop, the start screen IS the OS--the desktop is now effectively an app, and is best thought of as such (in fact, by thinking of the desktop as an app launched from the start screen, Windows 8 starts to make a whole lot more sense). We launch the windowed UI from the gestureUI, much as we launched (and, in Linux--tho transparently--still do launch) the windowed UI from a command prompt.

The desktop literally IS an app. Code doesn't get loaded until you open the tile.

People seem to be making a very critical mistake, Windows 8 is NOT Windows 7 + the Start Screen. Windows 8 IS the Start Screen. The desktop got demoted.

I am Not PCyr said,

I could give an endless stream of examples but i'll stick with one.

I have killed every conceivable extra bloated piece of crap on my machine
for increased computing power, whether it be I'm trying to run a game such as GTA 4 at high settings or I'm doing what i do daily which is run media center, video encoding, downloading, surfing, and word processing etc etc etc
Basically the more i can get out of the machine i overclocked the better.
I have no use or need or desire for any Metro cr'apps.
And because of that i shouldn't have useless bloated garbage jammed down my throat.

Want a dozen more reasons why ?

And now it's my turn to shake my head..

All that work for what...like 1FPS more? Seems pointless.

dagamer34 said,

The desktop literally IS an app. Code doesn't get loaded until you open the tile.

People seem to be making a very critical mistake, Windows 8 is NOT Windows 7 + the Start Screen. Windows 8 IS the Start Screen. The desktop got demoted.

Actually, I've loaded up my computer several times where the Desktop flashes for a second before the Start Screen comes up.

Joshie said,
As a user of Windows 8 and a fan of anything that shakes up computing paradigms, I agree and disagree.

I like what the Start Screen *wants* to be. In practice, tiles do not update quickly enough for me. The OS needs to start grabbing that data as soon as it can. Smartphone widgets update as soon as they can, and weather/email/feeds are rushing to refresh. That simply isn't the case right now with Windows 8 tiles.

If my PC has been on for 20 minutes, my People hub shouldn't be updating the What's New feed after I've already loaded it into view. I expect that info to be up-to-date as part of the process that updates the tile. If my email tile says I have two new messages, I shouldn't have to launch my inbox and stare at it while it THEN downloads them (this doesn't always happen, but it happens enough).

I understand resource management and that what I'm asking for is a bunch of background tasking, but I'm speaking in high levels terms here. It's about UX, not technical limitations. The metro experience is ENTIRELY about UX, so behavior decisions need to start as high level as possible.

The update cycle of tiles has you confused.

There is a balance DEVELOPERS must make for applications, and when it comes the App Previews, you are not getting the best experience.

If the titles ran constantly like Widgets on the Desktop do, they would kill your battery or take CPU resources away from your other applications and games.

This is where that balance comes in.

On WP7 this is also a balance issue, as it is nice to see things instantly, but there are some Apps that should only update every 15 or 30 minutes. And this is how WP7 works, just like Windows 8 will work.

If you have a live email service like hotmail or exchange, your email tile on WP7 is live and you can literally sit at your computer and as you update or delete emails or send them, hear the phone's tone for the email notifications for EVERY single email you change that affects the phone's unread count.

This is true of Messaging on WP7 as well, they are instant, even from Messenger or SMS/MMS.

However, the Weather App isn't updating every freaking second, and this is important that it doesn't unless your location changes or the timed cycle fires. If heavier Apps did fire all the time, the battery life of WP7 would be horrid, and the background processes would be taking precious CPU resources and RAM from your active App. (Which is TRULY a problem on Android in example.)

Joshie said,

I'm glad you brought up DOS. A lot of people seem to have forgotten it when they say argue that Microsoft is forcing people to work in two completely different environments with two completely different sets of metaphors.

For decades we sat with the dueling user experiences of--essentially--terminal and GUI. From the terminal, only our keyboards are of any use. From the GUI, keyboards input is accompanied by mouse navigation. These two [drastically] different styles of using a PC coexisted.

Windows has all but eliminated any reason to use a terminal for a comically high majority of users. This is something Linux not only hasn't been able to do, but practically refuses to do. While almost every command line activity has a GUI equivalent in Windows, there remain actions in Linux that require pulling up that terminal.

All Windows is doing, by modifying the metaphor, is updating the dual-environment configuration from terminal+GUI to GUI+gestureUI.

Instead of thinking of the Start screen as an obstacle to the desktop, the start screen IS the OS--the desktop is now effectively an app, and is best thought of as such (in fact, by thinking of the desktop as an app launched from the start screen, Windows 8 starts to make a whole lot more sense). We launch the windowed UI from the gestureUI, much as we launched (and, in Linux--tho transparently--still do launch) the windowed UI from a command prompt.

And for all the criticism of Windows 8 for doing so, Android, starting with 3.x (which was originally a tablet-only fork, and has since merged back into the Android core with Ice Cream Sandwich) has done the same thing. Worse, Android (not alone on tablets, but hardware like the ASUS Eee Transformer) is coming after Windows itself. I asked earlier (in another thread) if the critics of Windows 8 basically want Microsoft to ignore Android - despite that they are in Microsoft's face, and pilfering customers (due to the one big advantage Android has compared to Windows 7 - monstrously-long battery life); I never got an answer.

Joshie said,

Your argument would hold more water if not for the fact that games tend to get better performance out of Windows 8 than previous versions of the OS.

If all of those tiles can exist while the OS still gives your game a boost over how you'd experience it in Windows XP/7, you need to come up with a better argument.

Hint: saying "well think how it'd be even BETTER without the tiles" doesn't exactly cut it.

my argument holds up just fine.
Your changing the subject..
Besides, prove it
enough with the FUD already

oh and you are high if you think those bloody tiles are gonna give my game a boost LOL

are you smoking crack buddy ?

I am Not PCyr said,

my argument holds up just fine.
Your changing the subject..
Besides, prove it
enough with the FUD already

oh and you are high if you think those bloody tiles are gonna give my game a boost LOL

are you smoking crack buddy ?


FUD does not mean what you think it means.

thenetavenger said,

The update cycle of tiles has you confused.

There is a balance DEVELOPERS must make for applications, and when it comes the App Previews, you are not getting the best experience.

If the titles ran constantly like Widgets on the Desktop do, they would kill your battery or take CPU resources away from your other applications and games.

This is where that balance comes in.

On WP7 this is also a balance issue, as it is nice to see things instantly, but there are some Apps that should only update every 15 or 30 minutes. And this is how WP7 works, just like Windows 8 will work.

If you have a live email service like hotmail or exchange, your email tile on WP7 is live and you can literally sit at your computer and as you update or delete emails or send them, hear the phone's tone for the email notifications for EVERY single email you change that affects the phone's unread count.

This is true of Messaging on WP7 as well, they are instant, even from Messenger or SMS/MMS.

However, the Weather App isn't updating every freaking second, and this is important that it doesn't unless your location changes or the timed cycle fires. If heavier Apps did fire all the time, the battery life of WP7 would be horrid, and the background processes would be taking precious CPU resources and RAM from your active App. (Which is TRULY a problem on Android in example.)


Yes, I'm an Android user; I understand different refresh cycles for different widgets and the impact those cycles can have on battery life perfectly well. That's well and dandy for things like stocks, news headlines, weather, and feed-style data in general. But it simply isn't acceptable for any push-enabled technology (mail, for example).

It also isn't acceptable that information updates clumsily at BOOT. I understand everything you pointed out, but we've been beyond holding UX back due to those limitations for years now. Tricks and techniques and proper prioritization of behaviors are established and well understood at this point, and there's simply no excuse for a 'connected' central hub to feel sluggish.

As an aside, there's such a thing as a power profile. Battery life is important, yes, but when on-plug, a system should intelligently react and manage data more robustly. These concerns are all fantastic while you're mobile, but they're a very poor argument with a product that is already suffering image neglect on the desktop side of things.

@Joshie
I take it you are changing the subject and critizing my grammar etc ?

I just wanted to know how Metro Tiles were gonna give my PC gaming a boost ?
You claim games will most of the time run better on Win 8 than Win 7
So are we dodging the question now ?
Why say something like that if you are unwilling to back it up ?

On the same issue i think it depends on how much is required for the OS to run
which includes many factors and i haven't looked in detail yet but the pattern is
every new version of windows has more services and more task etc etc
If it had less that would be MAJOR headlines !
So the 2nd point I think is drivers. Games can get severe optimizations on the driver level etc.

Oh by the way this is what i think FUD means..

“FUD can be used to offhandedly ‘smear' criticism or legitimate debate, even in cases where the allegations are without merit or are merely implied; this tactic is often used in cases where the initial publicity surrounding claims of FUD is likely to vastly overshadow any subsequent retraction. Such an arbitrary usage is a general type of logical fallacy known as Ad hominem circumstantial“

I am Not PCyr said,
@Joshie
I take it you are changing the subject and critizing my grammar etc ?

I just wanted to know how Metro Tiles were gonna give my PC gaming a boost ?
You claim games will most of the time run better on Win 8 than Win 7
So are we dodging the question now ?
Why say something like that if you are unwilling to back it up ?

On the same issue i think it depends on how much is required for the OS to run
which includes many factors and i haven't looked in detail yet but the pattern is
every new version of windows has more services and more task etc etc
If it had less that would be MAJOR headlines !
So the 2nd point I think is drivers. Games can get severe optimizations on the driver level etc.

Oh by the way this is what i think FUD means..

“FUD can be used to offhandedly ‘smear' criticism or legitimate debate, even in cases where the allegations are without merit or are merely implied; this tactic is often used in cases where the initial publicity surrounding claims of FUD is likely to vastly overshadow any subsequent retraction. Such an arbitrary usage is a general type of logical fallacy known as Ad hominem circumstantial“


Neat. That's not what FUD means. It means Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. It's a term that only applies to content written in such a way to negative cast light on something by instilling readers with a sense of--wait for it--fear, uncertainty, and/or doubt, and generally applies when such a sense is groundless or poorly backed up by the FUD-er.

So no, I wasn't attacking your grammar. Your post came down to calling MY post FUD, which it was not, because nothing I said could have been read in such a way that it would make readers feel fear, uncertainty, or doubt about something I was preaching against. Since your post came down to accusing me of FUD, when there was no FUD, I called you on it. Your 'alternative' definition of the term has no validity here because nobody else shares that definition. Language is only dynamic when new definitions and interpretations are shared by more than one person. In this case, you alone cannot redefine a word to make yourself correct any more than I can go back and say I was actually agreeing with you all along because I'm speaking Opposinglish.

In fact, it's dramatically more accurate to accuse you of spreading FUD, because you're the one constantly streaming a purely negative attitude about Windows 8. All things come with pros and cons--I began my participation in this thread by pointing out what I felt was a con with the Windows 8 experience. I do what I can to not get caught up in blind loyalties or oppositions to things as trivial as brands, or things as temporary as products.

I challenge you to list 1 pro for every 3 cons you can think of for Windows 8. No snarky 'fake' pros. A genuine feature unique to Windows 8 that you would personally like to see in an OS that you'd use. This is ALWAYS POSSIBLE. I can do this for Linux, Mac OS, Windows, even BeOS and early versions of DOS. If you restrict yourself from even this ability to step back and look at reality for a few seconds, you restrict yourself from the logical thought you so frequently on this page claim to exhibit.

Power users have multiple monitors I boot in the start menu and my desktop all at the same time. When undocked it's no problem for me. And yes maybe arrogant but I do consider myself as a Windows Poweruser...

Frank Reymenants said,
Power users have multiple monitors I boot in the start menu and my desktop all at the same time. When undocked it's no problem for me. And yes maybe arrogant but I do consider myself as a Windows Poweruser...

So I need another 27" monitor, because MS screws up Windows?

MFH said,

So I need another 27" monitor, because MS screws up Windows?

Well good for you, you have a big monitor. While I prefer sizes up to 23inch (and many with me do) and rather have 2 monitors because of the wider view (vertical 21-23inch is usually enough). With me, the general population in the IT world is on a multi monitor setup instead of 1 giant one.

MFH said,

So I need another 27" monitor, because MS screws up Windows?

Perhaps if that were actually true (newsflash, it isn't.) maybe you might be right.

MFH said,

So I need another 27" monitor, because MS screws up Windows?

How about just learning to use what is there first?

If you want multiple programs on the screen at once, BEYOND what Metro provides, because it does, then you are limited by the screen space of your existing monitor resolution anyway.

Even with a 2K display, there is not an efficient way to run Photoshop and Illustrator side by side, as you need more screen space than even the 2000+ pixel can provide, as 1000 pixels wide is NOT enough for the average application anymore. 1024x768 is what we were using in 1991 on 14" displays.

So if you have less that 4000 width in pixels on your display, you DO NOT have the screen space to use the desktop without maximizing the Application you are working in 90% of the time.

This is why METRO was designed to do the dual operation mode of applications and side docking capability, to condense down applications in a consistent flow to run beside your main workspace.

The lack of actually using the technology let alone understanding WHY it was designed like it was is freaking amazing.

If you don't really understand or know, be quiet.


Metro is ok for browsing and doing basic tasks... I would stay 95% of the time out of it. I'm keeping Win7 on my PC for now

robert_dll said,
Metro is ok for browsing and doing basic tasks... I would stay 95% of the time out of it. I'm keeping Win7 on my PC for now

Nonsense, Metro is great for all tasks, not just browsing and "basic" stuff. We just lack any decent apps at the moment, but there are sufficient out there now to get a flavour of what can be done in Metro, and it's not all "basic" stuff.

TCLN Ryster said,

Nonsense, Metro is great for all tasks, not just browsing and "basic" stuff. We just lack any decent apps at the moment, but there are sufficient out there now to get a flavour of what can be done in Metro, and it's not all "basic" stuff.

Yeah it's all about hoping. Just hope. Wait for it... Yes we can!

yo popcaan said,

Yeah it's all about hoping. Just hope. Wait for it... Yes we can!


There's knowledge of what Windows Runtime enables everywhere. Hope is for people who don't know the details.

TCLN Ryster said,

Nonsense, Metro is great for all tasks, not just browsing and "basic" stuff. We just lack any decent apps at the moment, but there are sufficient out there now to get a flavour of what can be done in Metro, and it's not all "basic" stuff.


really?? then watch a movie in metro app and type some documents at the same time.
or compare two documents side by side in metro

still1 said,

really?? then watch a movie in metro app and type some documents at the same time.
or compare two documents side by side in metro

That's easily done.

Luis Mazza said,

Unfortunately, it is not.... even possible.

Pro Tip: Just because you don't know how to do it, doesn't make it not possible.

De.Bug said,

Pro Tip: Just because you don't know how to do it, doesn't make it not possible.

Yeah, right. And Metro is specifically targeted at Pros like you, right?
Could you point me to those instructions, as you can see, I'm not a pro?

MetroNative said,
....

Nice designs.
Not sure what to make of the comment though.

I prefer Metro to the custom shell used on todays Win7 HP Touchsmart PCs.

TCLN Ryster said,

Nonsense, Metro is great for all tasks, not just browsing and "basic" stuff. We just lack any decent apps at the moment, but there are sufficient out there now to get a flavour of what can be done in Metro, and it's not all "basic" stuff.

For a tablet - yes.
Desktop - Nonsense

Deranged said,

That's easily done.

explain me how??? That's not even possible!!
The in dept metro web link you pointed out above dont even tell me how to use 2 metro app at once.

still1 said,

explain me how??? That's not even possible!!
The in dept metro web link you pointed out above dont even tell me how to use 2 metro app at once.

It's right there.
To run two apps side-by-side, touch users can drag the purple bar on the left hand side of the screen to the right. If you're on a desktop, mouse to the left side of the screen to get that thumbnail, then click and drag it to the right. You'll be able to prop them up next to each other, and drag the middle bar to resize the two panes. One app will take up most of the screen while the other will be a "sidebar" of sorts; you can't adjust them to split the screen evenly like you can with Aero Snap on the desktop.

still1 said,

explain me how??? That's not even possible!!
The in dept metro web link you pointed out above dont even tell me how to use 2 metro app at once.

Metro Snap
p/s: read that link again

still1 said,

explain me how??? That's not even possible!!
The in dept metro web link you pointed out above dont even tell me how to use 2 metro app at once.

LOL really, your flaming something you don't know, awkward.
Although I do not agree on that metro can be used for allot of things, but some things are defiantly very handy. Especially simpler tasks and even more so if you have multiple monitors setup.
But seriously man, boot up Win8 in a fullscreen VM and go nuts! (its terrible in windowed mode VM due to its corners)
I do love having my messenger and/or mail on the side tho withouth 'wasting' window space as the rest of your resolution basically drops (it all fits nicely).
And considering whats out there (or going to be) in the App market... As a normal desktop fan, its a waste not to get Win8.

Just consider your metro screen some sort of login screen when it starts. Often I notice I just boot up IE10metro and like the peace and quiet while browsing

Shadowzz said,

LOL really, your flaming something you don't know, awkward.

Not flaming!!! I didnt know metro can do that!! someone said something which i dont think was possible so I asked for an explanation

Luis Mazza said,

Yeah, right. And Metro is specifically targeted at Pros like you, right?
Could you point me to those instructions, as you can see, I'm not a pro?

You clearly aren't. People who look down at metro and state it isn't productive rarely are. A real pro already has already adapted and is using metro where it makes sense, and combine it with desktop usage where it makes sense. Your question is downright silly, there were numerous demos that showed how you can have two snapped meteo apps or a combination of metro and desktop, side by side.

sjaak327 said,

You clearly aren't. People who look down at metro and state it isn't productive rarely are. A real pro already has already adapted and is using metro where it makes sense, and combine it with desktop usage where it makes sense. Your question is downright silly, there were numerous demos that showed how you can have two snapped meteo apps or a combination of metro and desktop, side by side.

I actually don't care if metro does or does not work, because I have a gorgeous new Macbook Pro with (now I know) the best OS around.
I do have Windows 8 for games, though. And you know what? I used to be a "pro" on Windows, but I'm not anymore:

1. it does not bring me more money or happiness.
2. Windows is getting ridiculous by trying to be a tablet and an old fashioned PC.
3. SIlly questions for a silly UI that is not meant to be used by a mouse and it does not improve my productivy AT ALL.

still1 said,

explain me how??? That's not even possible!!
The in dept metro web link you pointed out above dont even tell me how to use 2 metro app at once.

WOW just wow, at least try it or even google it before you make a complete fool out of your self

sjaak327 said,

You clearly aren't. People who look down at metro and state it isn't productive rarely are. A real pro already has already adapted and is using metro where it makes sense, and combine it with desktop usage where it makes sense. Your question is downright silly, there were numerous demos that showed how you can have two snapped meteo apps or a combination of metro and desktop, side by side.

nice opinions..
can we sprinkle in a little bit of facts next time ?
PS: show your work, sorry but i don't trust Windows 8 Cheerleaders

Toysoldier said,

WOW just wow, at least try it or even google it before you make a complete fool out of your self


You are making complete fool out of yourself now... read above comments.

Luis Mazza said,

I actually don't care if metro does or does not work, because I have a gorgeous new Macbook Pro with (now I know) the best OS around.
I do have Windows 8 for games, though. And you know what? I used to be a "pro" on Windows, but I'm not anymore:

1. it does not bring me more money or happiness.
2. Windows is getting ridiculous by trying to be a tablet and an old fashioned PC.
3. SIlly questions for a silly UI that is not meant to be used by a mouse and it does not improve my productivy AT ALL.

lol macs, those are obsolete. keep using a ui from 1992

TCLN Ryster said,
Nonsense, Metro is great for all tasks

Hence the reason Microsoft Office and Visual Studio are still desktop apps.

>I actually don't care if metro does or does not work, because I have a gorgeous


You are posting totally clueless comments about a topic that you supposedly don't care about. Really putting that macbook to good use. What a pro!

Luis Mazza said,

Unfortunately, it is not.... even possible.


Yea because its totally impossible to have two metro apps open at once right? WRONG.

TCLN Ryster said,

Nonsense, Metro is great for all tasks, not just browsing and "basic" stuff. We just lack any decent apps at the moment, but there are sufficient out there now to get a flavour of what can be done in Metro, and it's not all "basic" stuff.

Yeah. I love having full screen apps on my 27 inch monitor. Really.

TCLN Ryster said,

Nonsense, Metro is great for all tasks, not just browsing and "basic" stuff. We just lack any decent apps at the moment, but there are sufficient out there now to get a flavour of what can be done in Metro, and it's not all "basic" stuff.


Lets see an application as powerful as Photoshop or Maya come to Metro. Oh wait, it won't because Metro can't handle that complexity.

Luis Mazza said,

I think Windows is becoming obsolete, just saying.
lol

Ok, then I'm just saying you have no understanding of the technology in Windows or the UI concepts and usability work that has went into Windows.

In pure architectural terms, Windows NT is at least one full generation beyond Linux and OS X. NT was designed to NOT be limited by existing kernel models, not be limited by the Unix model, and to be a highly portable object based OS model.

As for the UI model, moving users beyond a docu-centric and full Graphical UI model has been the goal of Microsoft for many years.

Just the concept of 'menus' which are not a GUI concept, but are a hold over from textual displays and were the 'only' way Apple could efficiently get a large number of commands into a Graphical application. Even in Windows 7, Menus are hardly seen or used, and there is not a need for them.

Yet OS X holds on to menus, even consuming screen space for them full time and pretend like they are the holy grail of 'ease of use' and an essential item of a 'GUI' and they are NEITHER. Memorizing a list of words is NOT what a GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE should provide. PERIOD.

thenetavenger said,

Ok, then I'm just saying you have no understanding of the technology in Windows or the UI concepts and usability work that has went into Windows.

In pure architectural terms, Windows NT is at least one full generation beyond Linux and OS X. NT was designed to NOT be limited by existing kernel models, not be limited by the Unix model, and to be a highly portable object based OS model.


One can always bet on a post by you with bold claims how Microsoft is the center of the technological world. The only problem is that you never offer any sources to back up your claims. Neither do you understand that 'best technology' != 'success' - if it were Windows would not exist, 'cause there was stuff that was way better than it for a long time....

"You can't adjust them to split the screen evenly like you can with Aero Snap on the desktop" was his point, which is true.

Lets also add that you can't put two documents (using the same app) side by side. Use Reader to compare two PDFs without leaving Metro for example. Another large limitation of the new environment.

off course if it bothers you that much, just download stackdock's windows 8 tool called start 8. it lets you boot to desktop.

however MSFT doing this can backfire if pople's first experience with windows 8 is on a desktop and with metro.

next time they see a windows 8 tablet they will relate it to the horrible experience that is the metro UI on non touch devices.

neonspark said,

however MSFT doing this can backfire if pople's first experience with windows 8 is on a desktop and with metro.

next time they see a windows 8 tablet they will relate it to the horrible experience that is the metro UI on non touch devices.


Even if people do find it horrible on a desktop computer (which isn't the case for every user), I am pretty sure they know that a tablet and a desktop computer are quite different, they could even imagine how the same UI would work on a touch device.

I haven't used Windows 8 on a touch device yet, but I can imagine it should work pretty well regardless of how it works on a desktop computer.

neonspark said,
off course if it bothers you that much, just download stackdock's windows 8 tool called start 8. it lets you boot to desktop.

however MSFT doing this can backfire if pople's first experience with windows 8 is on a desktop and with metro.

next time they see a windows 8 tablet they will relate it to the horrible experience that is the metro UI on non touch devices.

They have quite a nerve, making you click something or press a key to get to the desktop. I might just sue them. (Hoping sarcasm is obvious).

PmRd said,
Hahah good move my MS

I don't mind booting to the metro start screen at all. The desktop is literally a quick click away, so whatever.

aviator189 said,

I don't mind booting to the metro start screen at all. The desktop is literally a quick click away, so whatever.

Exactly! And chances are you will use the start screen to launch an application before going to the desktop.

PmRd said,
Hahah good move my MS

No this actually sucks dude. I wish I could load on to the desktop and have metro as an option. I started using the preview, and almost never use metro. Also, I hate searching for apps in this.. I think the move is a bold one and far too much of a change for a regular consumer..

aviator189 said,

I don't mind booting to the metro start screen at all. The desktop is literally a quick click away, so whatever.

Which hasn't stopped folks (especially desktop users - desktop as in the form-factor) from complaining about it. Want to zip to the desktop without clicking? Move the desktop tile from the lower left (the default) to the upper left of the StartScreen. Then the desktop is a press of the Enter key away. (I'm not the one that thought of this tip; I found it elsewhere on Neowin.) It does work in the RTM (which is where I tested it).

Shehan Kankanamge said,

No this actually sucks dude. I wish I could load on to the desktop and have metro as an option. I started using the preview, and almost never use metro. Also, I hate searching for apps in this.. I think the move is a bold one and far too much of a change for a regular consumer..

How can you hate searching for apps in the start screen? You simply start typing and the search begins. It's instant.