Editorial

Ubuntu 12.04 and what it may mean for OS evolution

Between Windows and Linux builds, I use each equally. This is partially because I’m a developer and also because Linux allows me to fully customize its desktop environment to meet my needs. This is pretty much the main reason people use Linux aside from the fact the OS is a lightning-fast open-source OS which continuously focuses on improving usability and functionality with every build and is constantly updated significantly. However, rather than changing core elements of usability and functionality, canonical has decided to focus more on simplifying the effort of finding files in a number of unique ways in the latest build released last month.

Introducing the HUD

The HUD is essentially a simplistic command feature which will tell your computer what to do. This can be used for anything such as finding or opening a file, to typing out commands that you would normally do in a terminal. It simply makes things a lot easier because if there’s one thing that annoys users about computing, it’s losing track of files.

Tapping the Alt key brings up the HUD on any interface and the HUD adapts itself to whatever program or environment it is in. So if you were editing a photo, and wanted to apply a certain filter or effect to the image but didn’t know where to look from within the application’s menus, the HUD would save time by offering them on the spot.

The HUD is the first truly innovative feature that I have seen in a long time. I’m genuinely starting to enjoy using Ubuntu 12.04 a lot more than my Windows 8 build in certain aspects. The HUD definitely makes the Linux experience within Ubuntu more intuitive.

The Video Lens

The Video Lens is an application which puts itself in the situation where it’s essentially a media station for videos. This media station has its own search feature which doesn’t only find local videos stored on your computer, but also finds whatever video you want to watch online, so for example; if I wanted to watch Top Gear, I could do that and the video would stream directly from BBC iPlayer.

This is a decent feature because personally, I really dislike a lot of Linux’s media players. I just find them a little temperamental, but this however, feels like a solid built-in feature with a lot of potential.

One thing I’d like to see incorporated into The Video Lens is the ability to search for videos on Netflix and other premium streaming sites – it would just make the whole experience somewhat better, in my opinion. However, that would require licensing from Netflix and other services, so whether or not the company would do that is completely beyond me.

The software center

In all fairness; this isn’t a new feature entirely, however, the software center for Ubuntu has been revamped significantly to allow some efficiency between new Linux users and users who have Ubuntu installed on multiple machines. The Ubuntu Software Center still gives users instant access to thousands of apps. users can see the top-rated apps, compare apps by rating and user reviews, keep track of what they've installed, and are able to sync apps between all of the user’s Ubuntu computers.

Although this is a small improvement to what the application offered previously on earlier builds, Canonical stresses that it wants to make Ubuntu more intuitive and the software center is as intuitive as it gets. The software center itself does look a lot more appealing and along with the HUD, most applications can be found, installed or uninstalled without much effort from the user.

Ubuntu could change the way OS’ are created in future

Canonical has built this open-source operating system for years, and to some extent, it is on-par to the performance seen in other operating systems, but it simply lacks a lot of authentic applications such as the Adobe suite. If you exclude that minor bump in the road that is Ubuntu, you’ll find it’s smoother and faster than any current OS – including my PC with the Windows 8 consumer preview.

Ubuntu stresses upon the fact that it wants to be the best desktop environment currently available rather than being just another forceful push towards the tablet division. The OS is minimizing the physical effort a user may give throughout the OS’ experience, but at the same time offers a really intuitive design which screams, “play with me”.

Bash me in the comments section below (if you will), but I truly believe that instead of shoving an OS like Windows 8 down our throats, that developers should focus on creating an experience which meets all user types – that’s fundamental in designing interaction. I would just rather use something I’m experienced enough to understand and I hope developers focus on enhancing core desktop environments and not focus on almost cross-platform OS’.

I personally find a Windows 8 installation irrelevant to anything other than a touch-enabled device, but with Ubuntu, I do not have to worry about that, and the best part about this experience was the obvious – it was free. Linux builds have long been predicted to exceed the standards Windows and Mac OSX offers for the past decade, but maybe focusing on core desktop environments is exactly what Canonical needs to do in order to win over the crowd that supports Microsoft and Apple's OS'.

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Not seen the HUD before, I only use Linux on the command line, but wow that looks awesome!
I really wish I could use it on my desktop, but the lack of foobar2000 ruins it for me.

the first thing i do on a new instaltion of ubuntu is install old gnome. unity is the wrost idea ever created in the history of computing. people complain about metro, they have never seen unity.

Just because you're not sophisticated enough to appreciate the other changes in Windows 8 doesn't mean there aren't any that are not targeted towards desktop users. This article is as devoid of content as it is opinionated. You're really pushing the whole "unprofessional journalism" bit by doing no research.

Fear and ignorance fuel the passion to keep one's fear and ignorance.

A very sad and scary cycle.

The article is one person's fearful attempt to 'change' the minds of the 'lesser informed' and stupid people that are beneath him.

I'm feel sorry for the author, and hope that trying to 'close minds' is something he realizes someday is not how to 'enlighten' people. Just purposely omitting facts or hiding the negatives is restricting information and manipulation, not education or creating understanding.

Sadly Ubuntu 12.04 has some nice ideas that should be talked about, just like Windows 8 has some nice ideas that should be talked about, just like OS X Lion has some nice ideas that should be talked about. However, by trying to manipulate the audience, the author is not creating an interesting or healthy dialog and will make people run from Ubuntu.

It has been six years since Windows Vista was released, and I still find anti-Microsoft and anti-Windows people refuse to explore or consider some of the nice ideas it introduced, which is very disheartening, as people gain more understanding of them on accident, they are scared that Linux and OS X lost an opportunity to implement similar kernel level technologies that were overlooked by hated of the OS, that are now becoming a necessary feature for OSes and software moving forward.

I would love to hear more 'good' things about Ubuntu 12.04 and any and all changes to the core Linux kernel and changes to the key features of the distribution that are good ideas.

However, I do not want to be talked down to, or have an author attempt to mislead or manipulate me as a reader because of some cast based ideal he has that doesn't allow his ego to consider that he doesn't have more understanding than everyone.

If he really believes in Ubuntu, exploring the bad should be a part of the discussion to help improve it. Instead we get a myopic and restricted review to hide things from the 'ignorant' readers.

The lack of Adobe product is not a 'tiny' blip, but speaks to a bigger topic of the lack of consistency and development options, as Adobe couldn't fully support Ubuntu because of the GPL restrictions that harm the availability of software on the platform by restricting licensed closed source technologies and features that require digital rights control and management. So it is a much larger discussion than missing Adobe software, as the reasons it is missing are important and should be corrected for Ubuntu or any major Linux distribution to ever have a chance at consumer level success.

I am a normal pc user. Installed Ubuntu 12.04 recently and updated. First app went to software center started downloading vlc, took 20minutes for whole thing. Same with almost any other small app. On windows everything is completed in blaze.

Ubuntu is still buggy, clunky not even properly optimized. You just have to put up with it for only reason because you are fanboy.

Good old discussion of Open Source VS Closed Source. I think they should Co-exist. no one is better than the other. they all have pros and cons. I was reading an article from a famous developer claiming that open source has got a lot better in terms of internal components coding and will eventually overtake closed source. I don't believe that. If that so, why Apple software doesn't crash and linux does. and windows has gone a lot better two. Windows 7 is basically a solid OS. while ubuntu is a very good os and has a lot of features and its FREE which is very important, it is not even close to windows in terms of productivity and performance.

S3P€hR said,
Good old discussion of Open Source VS Closed Source. I think they should Co-exist. no one is better than the other. they all have pros and cons. I was reading an article from a famous developer claiming that open source has got a lot better in terms of internal components coding and will eventually overtake closed source. I don't believe that. If that so, why Apple software doesn't crash and linux does. and windows has gone a lot better two. Windows 7 is basically a solid OS. while ubuntu is a very good os and has a lot of features and its FREE which is very important, it is not even close to windows in terms of productivity and performance.

WTF are you talking about?
Apple apps crash all the time, on their OSX as well as their iOS platforms. Usually their crashes are 'clean' though, the whole system don't become unstable like every version of windows before 7 was like.

Windows 7 is a major improvement to the desktop platform and likely as 'good as closed source' is going to get for those devices. Win8 made it clear its aiming to mobile/touchscreen.

Ubuntu geekbench is usually a higher score than windows on the same rig... Try it out. I got almost 2000 pts better on stock updated installs of both OS's. Im sure tweaking either install wouldn't improve it much.

Productivity I found too efficient, as I didn't have to screw around to get basic or moderately advanced features to work, waste time searching for a rare/unique program, or updating individual programs and rebooting the computer to complete updates, automatically.. despite being set for notify or not as they are 'critical' flaws needing to be instantly patched.. Biggest issue with Windows.

There is also programs like parallels (OSX to Win) and wine (unix to win) to run windows programs under each individual OS.

QUAD2500K said,
i love ubuntu but can't stand unity

12 has KDE and Gnome 3 built-in AFAIK, and you don't need to go hacking around to get them to work - unlike 11. 11 was terrible for this

The author should have left out the windows diatribe out of the article.

Other than that, good review. Nice to see someone in the *Nix world taking chances and I think Canonical may be on to something here.

deadonthefloor said,
The author should have left out the windows diatribe out of the article.

Other than that, good review. Nice to see someone in the *Nix world taking chances and I think Canonical may be on to something here.

The diatribe was used to compare a core OS with a Tablet/ PC OS like Windows 8. I actually still use Windows OS' more. I Just find Windows 8 a bit of a step in the wrong direction due to not being as intuitive. To me, it really feels like Microsoft is forcing users like the community on Neowin to buy touch-enabled PC's - that's just my opinion.

Barring Unity, Canonical are onto something special here, but I really wish Unity is improved in the next update. That shiz simply sucks. I tried not to mention the old parts of Ubuntu's previous builds otherwise Unity's implementation would be a major game changer.

While I agree with the author when he states "I personally find a Windows 8 installation irrelevant to anything other than a touch-enabled device" he throws out claims such as "it's smoother and faster than any current OS - including my PC with the Windows 8 consumer preview." without even attempting to back it up. Being faster isn't an opinion it's a measurable quantity so making such a claim should be backed up by some facts or methodology. Also I don't see much of a difference in MS "forcing" Metro on Windows users and Ubuntu "forcing" Unity on it's users. The Unity UI started as a netbook shell similar to how Metro started as a phone touch UI. Unity was a change that was not welcomed by a large number of Ubuntu users with some preferring to stay with the Gnome2 style Desktop metaphor and others wanting to go with the Gome3 shell unstead of something completely different. What it appears to come down to is the author likes Unity so it's ok that it was pushed on Ubuntu users but does not like Metro so it's horrible that MS is pushing it.

Linux has a snowball's chance in hell of ever becoming relevant in the consumer market. Great for servers, but just like its Android brethren: too many distro's/versions.

Linux isn't influencing anything.

Well done Neowin. Nice to see something other than Windows being reported. The biggest nag I have on the HUD is with the lack of LibreOffice (lo-menubar) integration.

Though I haven't made the upgrade to 12.04 just yet. Still got 11.10 and Unity as my default. I'm too scared to upgrade as it may break something...

There should be an alternative to Windows available but unfortunately there isn't a decent Linux distro that gets everything right. Debian's the one that comes close instead of Ubuntu. Just my opinion.

Ubuntu has done more for Linux than any other distrobution in a long time. It's basically "on the radar" now, and it's only getting better with time. That said, it's not without its flaws...

Of course there's the whole Unity thing (which is a dead horse we're still beating), lack of application support, games, the terminal, and etc, but I think that as time goes on and more and more people ditch their clunky PC's for portable methods, Linux will become more mainstream.

The desktop flavor of the month will always be in flux since the public is a fickle, never-satisfied crowd whose demands constantly change, but the flexibility of the kernel is so vast that it can be made to power just about anything. The future is very exciting for Linux, and I will keep my eye on it.

bjoswald said,

lack of application support, games

I've never found the application support lacking. And as far as games go, there are lots. Oil Rush, 0 AD, OpenArena, Doom 3, and soon Steam.

Yeah, because Unity totally wasn't "shoved down our throats" right? There's a reason people left Ubuntu in droves to superior alternatives like Xubuntu and Mint.

funkydude said,
Yeah, because Unity totally wasn't "shoved down our throats" right? There's a reason people left Ubuntu in droves to superior alternatives like Xubuntu and Mint.

But you can use an alternative desktop environment and still be using Ubuntu (e.g. Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Goobuntu). Where can I get a non-Metro edition of Windows 8?

funkydude said,
Yeah, because Unity totally wasn't "shoved down our throats" right? There's a reason people left Ubuntu in droves to superior alternatives like Xubuntu and Mint.

It's easy enough to install Gnome 3, MATE, or another DE if Unity isn't your thing.

simplezz said,

It's easy enough to install Gnome 3, MATE, or another DE if Unity isn't your thing.

MS Lose32 said,

But you can use an alternative desktop environment and still be using Ubuntu (e.g. Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Goobuntu). Where can I get a non-Metro edition of Windows 8?

I'm going to answer both your questions/statements with "why?". Both Mint and Xubuntu are essentially Ubuntu with very minor modifications and a different shell, Unity is the soul of Ubuntu, changing it to say Xfce defeats the purpose, you're essentially just using Xubuntu. So yes, it is "shoved down our throats" in my opinion.

Also, there are already Windows 8 programs for removing/changing/customizing Metro. Both Operating Systems have this in common.

funkydude said,
Yeah, because Unity totally wasn't "shoved down our throats" right? There's a reason people left Ubuntu in droves to superior alternatives like Xubuntu and Mint.
Well lets see: You didn't have to update to it. You could have deleted the new interface. You could have altered the new interface. Or you simply could have installed an different interface.

Shoved down your throat? Hardly.

KCRic said,
Well lets see: You didn't have to update to it. You could have deleted the new interface. You could have altered the new interface. Or you simply could have installed an different interface.

Shoved down your throat? Hardly.

All those points go for Windows 8, sorry. Unity is shoved down our throats as much as Metro is by being the default interface. Anyone with half a brain can change the interface, that's obviously not what were discussing.

funkydude said,

All those points go for Windows 8, sorry. Unity is shoved down our throats as much as Metro is by being the default interface. Anyone with half a brain can change the interface, that's obviously not what were discussing.

I have to disagree with the "shoved down your throat". Canonical decided to make their own DE where design decisions will be non-community based (i.e. they hired a design team and brought a vision to the table). This is as far as shoving down your throat goes. You can still download any of the other DEs and use them instead (including the flavours of Ubuntu distributions such as Kubuntu which come with KDE as default), or even use one of the forked versions of Unity. Decisions made by Microsoft are normally shoved down your throat because you can't just swap out (and its closed source) - well, yea you can write your own shell but compatibility and support are shockling bad.

Also, it should be noted that DEs can downloaded through the USC then selected at login. Far more users would be able to do this then resorting to hacking libraries or editing registries in Windows etc.

I should edit this to say my point is, you can still get commercial support for making changes like this in Linux. The moment you hack a library/registry, your support has gone.

Edited by ShMaunder, May 23 2012, 3:34pm :

funkydude said,

So yes, it is "shoved down our throats" in my opinion.

It's the default DE. It can be changed very easily. Quite a different situation from Win8 where there's no option but to use it.

funkydude said,

Also, there are already Windows 8 programs for removing/changing/customizing Metro. Both Operating Systems have this in common.

Really? Are these officially sanctioned, or just horrible hacks that will break the whole system when you do an update?

This whole computer thing is enough of a confusion to the majority of the world. Open source is great for whomever chooses it. But the best analogy I can think of is when Eli Whitney came up with the concept of stadardized parts for machinery and guns in particular. It's about consistency, and Windows keeps things consistent for most of the folks that choose to use it.

I can't tell you how many times I see people complaining about app support for Ubuntu. As an app developer I know one thing, give the customer what they want. If 80% of my market is Windows, 19% is Mac OS, and 1% is Linux distros, then I know my time will be spent on making and supporting apps for Windows and Mac, Linux would be on the back burner. Until people stop complaining and start asking for things, no one is going to make anything for their OS of choice. It's all about market share. If Adobe, or any other large company sees that the primary market on Desktop/Mobile platforms is Windows or Mac, they are going to focus on them. If you want Linux to be up there, you have to use it for years, get your friends to use it, your neighbors. Convert whole colleges and high schools over to Linux. Until that point, you aren't going to get what you want. But, I do believe open-source is the future. All of my home computers are linux machines, and my main work machine triple-boots Windows 7, Mac OS, and Ubuntu. I am one of the few who doesn't take after the system that I explained, I develop for a multitude of Operating Systems. It's all about choice, so stop complaining. No body is forcing you to install anything.

simplezz said,
Valve seem to think GNU/Linux is the future. The Steam gaming platform is coming to it

That's an unsubstantiated rumor

Good article Jake, thanks.


Bash me in the comments section below (if you will), but I truly believe that instead of shoving an OS like Windows 8 down our throats, that developers should focus on creating an experience which meets all user types - that's fundamental in designing interaction. I would just rather use something I'm experienced enough to understand and I hope developers focus on enhancing core desktop environments and not focus on almost cross-platform OS'.

I couldn't agree more. Windows 8 could learn a lot from Ubuntu. While Unity isn't perfect, Canonical are making huge strides in usability.

I think Ubuntu is at the point now where it is ready for the masses. And if the predictions are right, Ubuntu will hold 5% of all PC's shipped next year:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/201...-of-all-pcs-sold-next-year/

That and the fact that steam is finally coming to GNU/Linux, is changing the public's and businesses' perception of it. 2012/2013 really is the year of Linux

simplezz said,
I couldn't agree more. Windows 8 could learn a lot from Ubuntu. While Unity isn't perfect, Canonical are making huge strides in usability.

It has to be said, but I think that Canonical have learnt from Microsoft and the likes. They employed their own design team which do their own usability testing. The design team have made a vision and have stuck to it. The community goes nuts in 11.04 (first version of Unity as default), Canonical address some of the serious usability issues but stick to their vision. Then, 11.10 is released, community goes nuts again, but not quite on the scale of 11.04 and praises Canonical for addressing some of their concerns. Now, 12.04 is released, and a majority of the community now like Unity and praise Canonical for their efforts.

However, Canonical throughout have stuck to their design team's vision of Unity and not deferred away from it (as much as the community went nuts about it). This apparently isn't the open FOSS/Linux/Whatever way of doing things. Now Microsoft are doing the same thing with Windows 8 - the customers will go nuts, but by W9/10, the customers will be praising them. Customers/communities on the whole don't like change.

Only difference here though is with Ubuntu, you can get rid of the DE, whereas you're stuck with it on Windows.

simplezz said,
I think Ubuntu is at the point now where it is ready for the masses. And if the predictions are right, Ubuntu will hold 5% of all PC's shipped next year

Not sure this will happen. There aren't enough "Ubuntu/Linux professionals" to handle end user support economically. Sure, if/when steam comes about then a handful of people will swap out, but these people are informed in the subject already and don't require end user support. Most companies will be waiting until a stable alternative to Office is released on Linux - and probably wait until technicians to maintain it are as cheap/widely available as Windows technicians.

I personally find a Windows 8 installation irrelevant to anything other than a touch-enabled device.

I think this is the closest to the truth I have seen. In my opinion Take note Microsoft.

I prefer the ubuntu 12.04 way of doing things than actually win8. Sure theres things in the "hud" that need to be inproved but in reality its already better than windows metro ui so manyyy ways

Wakers said,
Post PC era of computing?

Err.. Right.

I was thinking the same thing. I think this is just a phase and we'll see more of this tablet-sized era become more of an addon like a laptop.

Wakers said,
Post PC era of computing?

Err.. Right.


I was also thinking the same thing. I don't know where idiots are getting this from, there is NO post-pc era going on, and never will be.

Tablets will NEVER replace a desktop PC. Just the size of the screen alone with prevent that from ever happening. They are also way underpowered compared to any desktop. They can't play the games any desktop PC can play. The only thing tablets are good for is browsing the web and maybe some simple games... but nothing productive. And yes I do own an iPad myself, but there is no way they ever replace a PC.

The only reason PC sales have slowed lately is due to the economy, and the fact that tablets are the latest fad. But just because more tablets are being sold means absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean people are replacing their PC with them... its just and added device they own.

Sorry for my rant, but it really angers me when I see that "post-PC" crap posted.

Calum said,
I wish someone would create a Linux distro that actually looks beautiful

Beauty is subjective. Fortunately, you can make Linux look however you want. Something which is much harder to do on Windows, and will be next to impossible on Windows 8.

simplezz said,

Beauty is subjective. Fortunately, you can make Linux look however you want. Something which is much harder to do on Windows, and will be next to impossible on Windows 8.

No, Stardock makes the ability to change the Windows look; You just need to adopt one of their skins or make your own.

briangw said,

No, Stardock makes the ability to change the Windows look; You just need to adopt one of their skins or make your own.

Bahaha, 99% of what I've seen from Stardock themes looks like dog ****. Linux is far easier to skin than Windows and doesn't require you to pay for an app to do so.

I don't think Ubuntu's stock look looks too terribly bad, but I'd agree it's not the best looking there is. I had high hopes for Fusion OS in our own forums. I appreciate that the Linux community focuses more on functionality than looks, but it'd be nice if something that looks as good as Fusion OS was going to would come out.

simplezz said,

Beauty is subjective. Fortunately, you can make Linux look however you want. Something which is much harder to do on Windows, and will be next to impossible on Windows 8.

I completely agree, and I suspect some people may well find that this looks nice. I just meant I wish there was a Linux distro that I like the look of You make a great point about how decent the customisability options are.

The HUD is the first truly innovative feature that I have seen in a long time.

People seem quick to forget or completely unaware that OS X has had the ability to search through menus by means of a Spotlight-like search box since OS X Tiger's introduction all the way back in 2005. It's even quickly accessible by means of a keyboard shortcut and you can start typing right away.

.Neo said,

People seem quick to forget or completely unaware that OS X has had the ability to search through menus by means of a Spotlight-like search box since OS X Tiger's introduction all the way back in 2005. It's even quickly accessible by means of a keyboard shortcut and you can start typing right away.

The HUD does much more than that. It's also extensible through lenses.

simplezz said,

The HUD does much more than that. It's also extensible through lenses.

It really doesn't change anything about the fact that the Ubuntu devs tried selling the whole menu search thing as an one of a kind revolutionary thing. They even went as far as showcasing classic Mac OS screen shots per example of how archaic OS X' Menu Bar design is. I think that's a pretty bold (not in a good way) move considering Apple introduced the menu search feature well over 7 years ago.

That said Spotlight does a lot more too and things like Quick Look are extensible as well.

There's been applications kind of like the HUD but still not quite like it. What's so interesting is that it adapts to the application you're running! Obviously, they need to be written to support it, but still... This is something I'd like to see in other operating systems in the future.

Overall interesting news here, and unless memory fails me, unusually notable ones for a new Ubuntu release.

zikalify said,
Xubuntu is amazing

Fixed that for you. I love Ubuntu, but I can't stand that new "Unity" interface. The HUD may be innovative, but in my experience, just because something is innovative doesn't make it useful.

Xubuntu FTW.

Breakthrough said,

Fixed that for you. I love Ubuntu, but I can't stand that new "Unity" interface. The HUD may be innovative, but in my experience, just because something is innovative doesn't make it useful.

Xubuntu FTW.

I loved the old Gnome 2 look of ubuntu, Unity is Meh.

Breakthrough said,

Fixed that for you. I love Ubuntu, but I can't stand that new "Unity" interface. The HUD may be innovative, but in my experience, just because something is innovative doesn't make it useful.

Xubuntu FTW.

The design of the UI is all based on logic, something about more monitors being wide-screen and vertical real-estate being more desirable , side bar fixes that.

Breakthrough said,

Fixed that for you. I love Ubuntu, but I can't stand that new "Unity" interface. The HUD may be innovative, but in my experience, just because something is innovative doesn't make it useful.
UBUNTU FTW.


There ya go boy. All those Xubuntu, Vubuntu Bubuntu **** is crazy. They don't support multiple keyboard layouts, and it's a pain to make them support one. Just use the basic - Gnome or KDE. I wanted US and BULGARIAN, but NOOOOOOOOOO.... So I installed Windows back. My computer has an AMD processor and an ATI video card. there are no proper drivers for me, but my next computer will have an Intel processor and a nVidia video card so I will install Ubuntu and have it as an only OS.

Couldnt be closer to the truth here! I run this side by side with my win 7 pro at work and I find my mouse hovering over this more than the other!!!1 I am using it to write to you atm

"Bash me in the comments section below (if you will), but I truly believe that instead of shoving an OS like Windows 8 down our throats,"
Seriously? Did some guy in black showed up at your door with a gun, to force you to install Windows 8? Nobody forces you to do anything, Microsoft (or any other software developer for that matter) can't please everyone, there will always be people who bitch about Windows, no matter what version.

Anyway, about Linux, it's funny that you call the Adobe thing a "minor bump". It's a MAJOR bump, in fact it's the main reason why Linux never really took off as a home OS. And I'm not talking only about Adobe, there are many good Windows apps that don't have a Linux alternative (well, except ****ty ones).

TDT said,
Anyway, about Linux, it's funny that you call the Adobe thing a "minor bump". It's a MAJOR bump, in fact it's the main reason why Linux never really took off as a home OS. And I'm not talking only about Adobe, there are many good Windows apps that don't have a Linux alternative (well, except ****ty ones).

This. This is the only reason i cant switch to linux full time. I triple boot OSX lion, Windows 7 and Linux, but Lack of application support is the reason i cant switch. Before people bitch about FOSS alternatives, There is a reason they are not popular, because they lack too many features and tools. I want to Install a plugin or software on Windows and OSX? click and install. On linux im tired of " Sudo - do sh*t ". Why cant FOSS developers use normal installation methods?

For the Customization part, Windows 7 is pretty customizable, and IMO comparing a BETA OS to a Fully featured OS is really unfair. I too hate some changes in Windows 8 but im waiting for Final release before judging.

TDT said,
"Bash me in the comments section below (if you will), but I truly believe that instead of shoving an OS like Windows 8 down our throats,"
Seriously? Did some guy in black showed up at your door with a gun, to force you to install Windows 8?

No, it's more like strangling the market so there next to no viable alternatives.

I think it's called a... Monopoly.

Mystiia said,
I think it's called a... Monopoly.

Oh, this again. Are you able to install a non-Windows operating system on your hardware? Yes? Then it's not a monopoly, it's just manufacturers targeting what sells.. you know, their whole reason for being in business in the first place. They're not going to waste their time and money producing something that just won't sell.

How about the FOSS developers start improving the quality of their software instead of constantly playing the blame game? Maybe that would give hardware manufacturers a reason to actually want to sell systems with some of these alternatives.

Max Norris said,

Oh, this again. Are you able to install a non-Windows operating system on your hardware? Yes? Then it's not a monopoly, it's just manufacturers targeting what sells.. you know, their whole reason for being in business in the first place. They're not going to waste their time and money producing something that just won't sell.

How about the FOSS developers start improving the quality of their software instead of constantly playing the blame game? Maybe that would give hardware manufacturers a reason to actually want to sell systems with some of these alternatives.

Ever tried buying a computer that didn't have a copy of windows pre-installed with the cost of the OS grafted into the price? I would happily buy a blank machine at a lower cost (if I didn't build my own), I think Dell came up with a partial solution, with the option to have Linux pre-installed.. but it cost MORE...?

phate said,
Ever tried buying a computer that didn't have a copy of windows pre-installed with the cost of the OS grafted into the price?

Yea, I do it all the time, although I still typically install Windows on them anyway, occasionally Arch. It's called OEM. Again, your typical computer reseller is going to target your home consumer... having to install an OS out of the box isn't exactly a good selling point. Soooooo they're going to sell it with an OS already on it, and lets see, pick the one that has the overwhelming number of usage, or the one that's in the "misc" category?

Max Norris said,

Yea, I do it all the time, although I still typically install Windows on them anyway, occasionally Arch. It's called OEM.

I've never seen a high-street vendor offer an OEM option. But I don't understand why it would cost more to have a free OS installed.

phate said,

Ever tried buying a computer that didn't have a copy of windows pre-installed with the cost of the OS grafted into the price? I would happily buy a blank machine at a lower cost (if I didn't build my own), I think Dell came up with a partial solution, with the option to have Linux pre-installed.. but it cost MORE...?

Yes, many times I have bought computers (desktops, netbooks, laptops) without an OS and not paid for one. And let's also state so have non-tech members of my friends and family (without my input) - so the "But you know where from" argument dies.

What point were you attempting to make?

TDT said,

Anyway, about Linux, it's funny that you call the Adobe thing a "minor bump". It's a MAJOR bump

Adobe is niche software really. I don't miss anything offered by proprietary software on Windows.

There's so much great FOSS on GNU/Linux that we're spoilt for choice really. That and the fact that it's so easily accessible through the repositories.

TDT said,

in fact it's the main reason why Linux never really took off as a home OS.

Haven't you heard, GNU/Linux has already took off on the desktop:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/201...-of-all-pcs-sold-next-year/

TDT said,

And I'm not talking only about Adobe, there are many good Windows apps that don't have a Linux alternative.

Like what? And don't go quoting a list of niche apps that 10 people in the world use. The average consumer doesn't use Photoshop, or Adobe Creative Suite, sorry to inform you.

TDT said,

(well, except ****ty ones)

And there are many ****ty Windows apps, your point being? At least Linux apps aren't teeming with adverts, adware, viruses, rootkits. and keyloggers like on Windows.

I also like to keep all my applications and system up to date. That's a nightmare in Windows.

simrat said,

This. This is the only reason i cant switch to linux full time ... but Lack of application support is the reason i cant switch. I want to Install a plugin or software on Windows and OSX? click and install. On linux im tired of " Sudo - do sh*t ". Why cant FOSS developers use normal installation methods?

Oh dear. Did you even read the article? Installing software is far easier on GNU/Linux than it is on Windows. in fact in Ubuntu, you can even install repository software from the dash.

Let's compare:
Ubuntu / Linux: Fire up the Ubuntu Software Centre / your favourite package manager, type in name of package or browse to it, then install.

Windows: Spend 20 minutes finding the software on the internet, another 2 minutes getting to the download location, run the installer (hope it works and is compatible, and doesn't contain a virus).

simrat said,

For the Customization part, Windows 7 is pretty customizable

Yeah if you use hacks. That's the only way you even approach the level of customisation you get with Linux. It's exactly like Android vs WP7. One is locked down, the other is completely open.

simrat said,

and IMO comparing a BETA OS to a Fully featured OS is really unfair. I too hate some changes in Windows 8 but im waiting for Final release before judging.

If it's not feature complete at this point, it'll never be released.

simplezz said,

Let's compare:
Ubuntu / Linux: Fire up the Ubuntu Software Centre / your favourite package manager, type in name of package or browse to it, then install.

Windows: Spend 20 minutes finding the software on the internet, another 2 minutes getting to the download location, run the installer (hope it works and is compatible, and doesn't contain a virus).

Its 2012 and people still afraid of virus...

20 minutes to download software on Windows? Not sure if dumb or trolling...for example i need to download chrome or firefox, i just need to google it and then download the installer, then install...less than 3 minutes

Everything on ubuntu depends on internet, and not all apps/software available from Ubuntu Software Centre, it really pains when you need to go intro terminal to download apps/driver and sometimes it takes hours...

What worse is sometimes you need to compile the source code of the software before installing it...I'm wish more linux software are available as deb file for much easier installation

simplezz said,

Adobe is niche software really. I don't miss anything offered by proprietary software on Windows.

There's so much great FOSS on GNU/Linux that we're spoilt for choice really. That and the fact that it's so easily accessible through the repositories.


Haven't you heard, GNU/Linux has already took off on the desktop:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/201...-of-all-pcs-sold-next-year/


Like what? And don't go quoting a list of niche apps that 10 people in the world use. The average consumer doesn't use Photoshop, or Adobe Creative Suite, sorry to inform you.


And there are many ****ty Windows apps, your point being? At least Linux apps aren't teeming with adverts, adware, viruses, rootkits. and keyloggers like on Windows.

I also like to keep all my applications and system up to date. That's a nightmare in Windows.


Right. I was so blind all my life. Thank you for clearing things for me. /s
I don't need to quote 10 apps, because there are thousands, if we include the games too. For me, I give you 2 essential apps that I can't live without: Sound Forge and Ableton. And please don't bother giving me the Linux alternatives...we all know they're beyond crap.

Software Centre? What do you think the App Store in Windows 8 is?

Adware, viruses? Well, you might as well get DOS, that's clean too. Right?

Anyway...

P.S. You forgot about the password that I ALWAYS have to type for almost everything. Even installing an app. So yeah, it's MUCH easier in Linux, suuuuuure.

Max Norris said,

Oh, this again. Are you able to install a non-Windows operating system on your hardware? Yes?

Not if Microsoft has anything to do with it:
https://www.zdnet.com/blog/har...ux-from-windows-8-pcs/14897

Max Norris said,

Then it's not a monopoly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...poly#Examples_of_monopolies

Note Microsoft's existence in that list?

Max Norris said,

it's just manufacturers targeting what sells..

Microsoft obtained its OEM monopoly through threats and intimidation. It still does it to this day. It's bad for the market, innovation, consumers, and costs.

Max Norris said,

you know, their whole reason for being in business in the first place. They're not going to waste their time and money producing something that just won't sell.

But it doesn't sell. Just look at the off the shelf sales of Windows. It's minuscule. In the same way as IE has a large market share because it's preinstalled and the default browser on every PC, Windows is only successful by virtue of its OEM monopoly. If it wasn't preinstalled on almost every new PC sold, that desktop OS monopoly would disappear in a heartbeat. Who really chooses to buy Windows? No one. They choose to buy a PC, which by happenstance contains Windows. So when you hear sales figures of Windows paraded by Microsoft's PR department, remember, no one (or very few) actually made the concious choice of buying the OS.

simplezz said,
Not if Microsoft has anything to do with it:
https://www.zdnet.com/blog/har...ux-from-windows-8-pcs/14897

Sign their OS to comply with new standards? Just a thought.

simplezz said,
Note Microsoft's existence in that list?

Note the date of that versus today's date? No longer applies. Plus scroll up and actually read the definition of the word monopoly.

simplezz said,
Microsoft obtained its OEM monopoly through threats and intimidation. It still does it to this day. It's bad for the market, innovation, consumers, and costs.

How so? Not going to quote the materials from 1995 are you? Something current please. There are other companies that are much worse at this.

simplezz said,
Who really chooses to buy Windows? No one. They choose to buy a PC, which by happenstance contains Windows

If people were so against having Windows, they would be buying up Apples or installing Linux. Neither are exactly obscure unknowns... and yet Windows is still far and away the most popular choice.

phate said,

I've never seen a high-street vendor offer an OEM option. But I don't understand why it would cost more to have a free OS installed.


As you stated earlier, the "Microsoft Tax" is built into every PC shipped, no matter what OS it has. That's part of the licence agreement all OEM's are forced to enter with Microsoft lest discounts be revoked.

TDT said,

Software Centre? What do you think the App Store in Windows 8 is?

So you can download Sound Forge and Ableton right now from the Windows 8 app store?

I prefer Audacious myself. I use that on both Linux and Windows.

TDT said,

Adware, viruses? Well, you might as well get DOS, that's clean too. Right?

No, no Microsoft OS is clean, except perhaps CE.

TDT said,

Anyway...
P.S. You forgot about the password that I ALWAYS have to type for almost everything. Even installing an app. So yeah, it's MUCH easier in Linux, suuuuuure.

I know you're used to next to no security in Windows, but did you read that statement before you made it?

simplezz said,

So you can download Sound Forge and Ableton right now from the Windows 8 app store?

I prefer Audacious myself. I use that on both Linux and Windows.


No, no Microsoft OS is clean, except perhaps CE.


I know you're used to next to no security in Windows, but did you read that statement before you made it?


Audacious? ))) Dude, that's an audio player. You obviously have no idea about what Sound Forge or Ableton are. And yes, those, and others, will be available trough AppStore. Like games are available trough Steam, etc.

I didn't say MS is clean, stop trolling and twisting everyone's words. What I meant was that the best security you can have sits right in front of the monitor. No matter what OS you have. Linux doesn't have as many threats as Windows because no one cares about it, with such small market share. If, 5000 light years ahead from now, Linux will replace Windows, then you will see how "clean" and "secure" Linux is.

Next to no security? So asking for a password when doing every basic stuff in an OS is "security"? )) Dude, you make me laugh.

phate said,

Ever tried buying a computer that didn't have a copy of windows pre-installed with the cost of the OS grafted into the price? I would happily buy a blank machine at a lower cost (if I didn't build my own), I think Dell came up with a partial solution, with the option to have Linux pre-installed.. but it cost MORE...?

Whilst I actually agree with your frustration (this is the reason why I always build my own computers, I already have OS licenses and don't need more) but OEMs are always going to do what makes most business sense. The demand for PC's with Linux is very small, and the incidence of returns amongst Linux based netbooks was a lot higher than that with Windows because people either couldn't work it out or were unwilling to learn to.

It's not a perfect situation, but it is what it is. If you know what you're looking for (and most people that were smart enough to know they want an OS free computer would) you can still find companies that build computers to spec, without an OS.

simplezz said,

Oh dear. Did you even read the article? Installing software is far easier on GNU/Linux than it is on Windows. in fact in Ubuntu, you can even install repository software from the dash.

Let's compare:
Ubuntu / Linux: Fire up the Ubuntu Software Centre / your favourite package manager, type in name of package or browse to it, then install.

Windows: Spend 20 minutes finding the software on the internet, another 2 minutes getting to the download location, run the installer (hope it works and is compatible, and doesn't contain a virus).


Yeah if you use hacks. That's the only way you even approach the level of customisation you get with Linux. It's exactly like Android vs WP7. One is locked down, the other is completely open.


If it's not feature complete at this point, it'll never be released.

Oh dear, Im use Linux everyday, from almost 2 years. Dont tell me how things work on linux. Ubuntu software center? its a joke, app selection is joke. Suppose i want to install Ubuntu tweak in ubuntu 12.04, there is no installer, i have to open terminal and type:

"sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-tweak-testing/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install ubuntu-tweak".

Yeah much easier than windows

Installing Stuff on Windows is easy, open search engine ( i use duckduckgo ), type whatever application you want, go to website and download installer, double click and done. Same steps on OSX.

Please tell me how customization on windows require hacking? Install custopack, download whatever theme you want and install with custopack. Lots of shells are available for Windows.

Virus? Im not even going to comment on that one. A guy who can use linux can easily use windows without antivirus, and wont get any virus.

About the Android vs WP7 part, I like things to work, Android is indeed customizable but i think if a device needs rooting to work properly, it is really a ****ty device or OS in my opinion. WP7 works out of the box, smooth and lag free.

I use Autodesk Maya, Luxology Modo, 3DsMax, Sketchbook pro, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash Pro, ToonBoom studio, Zbrush and sometimes Mudbox. Not counting all my games as i dont like consoles. None of these are available on Linux plus the FOSS alternatives are crap. I like to customize my ubuntu, but it doesnt mean it does what i want.

Mystiia said,

No, it's more like strangling the market so there next to no viable alternatives.

I think it's called a... Monopoly.

The reason Linux sucks, is because they copied Windows, had they copied Mac OS, they'd atleast have a decent platform. and yes, they need to stop using tarballs and start using regular apps, if that doesn't happen, they'll never become popular at all. It's just completely unacceptable in this day and age.

I somewhat agree with Simrat on some points, but not on all. Here's my take:

simrat said,
Yeah much easier than windows

I see this a lot. But its subjective imo. I find it easier to copy and paste a one line terminal command (i.e. replace your newlines with &&) then using a GUI wizard (e.g. next, i agree, untick toolbar, next, finish, etc..). Also after writing a couple of guides on how to install a tool - I found I had to write 3 times as much for Windows and provide screenshots, for the Linux (& Mac as well), it was a simple one line terminal command. You also run into problems with a customisable GUI like control panel being in classic/category view etc. - it makes writing and reading guides annoying.

simrat said,
Please tell me how customization on windows require hacking? Install custopack, download whatever theme you want and install with custopack. Lots of shells are available for Windows.

Does Microsoft provide commercial support for this? If not, why? Does anybody provide commercial support? Most Linux DEs have commercial support available.

simrat said,
About the Android vs WP7 part, I like things to work, Android is indeed customizable but i think if a device needs rooting to work properly, it is really a ****ty device or OS in my opinion. WP7 works out of the box, smooth and lag free.

I understand where you're coming from in one respect, but I disagree as a whole. What happens if you could add USB tethering (I think thats a feature not on WP7) through rooting it - for me that means that I have to root it for it to work properly because I need that feature from a smartphone. What happens if I don't like some GUI element - at least on something I can root, I have the option to replace the file/library/config file to change it. If a non-rooted phone doesn't do what is says on the box, then you take it back. Rooting is there for extra features/customisation on top of the boxed features.

simrat said,
I use Autodesk Maya, Luxology Modo, 3DsMax, Sketchbook pro, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash Pro, ToonBoom studio, Zbrush and sometimes Mudbox. Not counting all my games as i dont like consoles. None of these are available on Linux plus the FOSS alternatives are crap. I like to customize my ubuntu, but it doesnt mean it does what i want.

+1

TDT said,

Audacious? ))) Dude, that's an audio player.

Typo. I meant Audacity. I use both so...

TDT said,

And yes, those, and others, will be available trough AppStore. Like games are available trough Steam, etc.

The operative word here is will be. But when? Right now there are thousands of apps available in Linux repositories. Besides, Windows 8 isn't even available yet. You're comparing Beta vs stable.

TDT said,

What I meant was that the best security you can have sits right in front of the monitor.

Except when UAC dumbs down the security and only single button has to be clicked, people tend to just click it without even looking.

TDT said,

No matter what OS you have.

Except there are no viruses for GNU/Linux. However, there are millions for Windows.

TDT said,

Linux doesn't have as many threats as Windows because no one cares about it, with such small market share.

Android, Linux servers, and by some estimations, upwards of 10% desktop marketshare as well. Ubuntu alone is expected to break the 5% barrier next year.

TDT said,

Next to no security? So asking for a password when doing every basic stuff in an OS is "security"? )) Dude, you make me laugh.

What kind of basic stuff? It can be configured based on the groups you belong too. It only asks me for my password when I modify system files. Perhaps you're using it wrong or don't understand it.

simrat said,

Oh dear, Im use Linux everyday, from almost 2 years. Dont tell me how things work on linux .. Suppose i want to install Ubuntu tweak in ubuntu 12.04, there is no installer, i have to open terminal and type:

"sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-tweak-testing/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install ubuntu-tweak".


You can also install the deb:
https://code.google.com/p/ubuntu-tweak/downloads/list

No terminal is necessary. Or you can add the tweak repo using the software centre using the sources menu, again, no need to use the terminal. Of course, you're talking about third party repos here, not the main ones.

But I guess you have been using Linux for two years and know that already...

simrat said,

Installing Stuff on Windows is easy, open search engine ( i use duckduckgo ), type whatever application you want, go to website and download installer, double click and done. Same steps on OSX.

You know as well as I do, it's a lot more hassle than that on Windows. Besides, what happens if you don't know the name of the software or where to find it?

simrat said,

Virus? Im not even going to comment on that one. A guy who can use linux can easily use windows without antivirus, and wont get any virus.

I can use Linux and I've had viruses before on Windows. Rootkits are especially nasty. A lot of people don't even know they have one because traditional anti-virus software can't detect a lot of them.

simrat said,

I use Autodesk Maya, Luxology Modo, 3DsMax, Sketchbook pro, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash Pro, ToonBoom studio, Zbrush and sometimes Mudbox.

And you think you are a typical PC user?

ShMaunder said,
I somewhat agree with Simrat on some points, but not on all. Here's my take:


I see this a lot. But its subjective imo. I find it easier to copy and paste a one line terminal command (i.e. replace your newlines with &&) then using a GUI wizard (e.g. next, i agree, untick toolbar, next, finish, etc..). Also after writing a couple of guides on how to install a tool - I found I had to write 3 times as much for Windows and provide screenshots, for the Linux (& Mac as well), it was a simple one line terminal command. You also run into problems with a customisable GUI like control panel being in classic/category view etc. - it makes writing and reading guides annoying.

We techies can find our way in linux through internet help, because we know where to find tutorials and resources, but when it comes to average joe, its hard, trust me, i have tried it in past, I used to install Linux mint on people's PC who just use it for basic browsing and word editing. But after sometimes they called me to install windows on it. Linux has evolved into User friendly, but its not on the level of Windows and OSX right now in user friendly interface.


Does Microsoft provide commercial support for this? If not, why? Does anybody provide commercial support? Most Linux DEs have commercial support available.

Microsoft doesnt support it, but it doesnt stop it too, Stardock is known for its customization applications ( most of them are crap ), and has tie up with Most windows OEMs and even MS. Customizing windows doesnt void warranty too.

B/w glad to see a good reply, because most of the time i get bashed

simplezz, I feel some fanboyism coming out here. I am a Ubuntu fan boy, but I've been trying to keep as much of a balanced argument as possible in here. From a applications point of view, I fully agree with Simrat - basically, there is nothing but computer development applications available/matured for the Linux platform.

simplezz said,

Except there are no viruses for GNU/Linux. However, there are millions for Windows.

OK, I'll make a virus for Linux - there, Linux is no longer virus free. Anything can attach to your user profile for malicious purposes (same in Windows as well - UAC doesn't block it). Both Malware / Viruses can be replicated and spread throughout a network of computers if it has been written to do so. User profiles are fully writeable and normally aren't sandboxed in an application. It could also be added to user startup configs etc.

The fact is, if Linux market share increases, I bet there will be tons of malware and crap inbound. This will be accelerated by some of the silly users that allow it in. I'm sure there will be drive by crap as well.

simplezz said,
Android, Linux servers, and by some estimations, upwards of 10% desktop marketshare as well. Ubuntu alone is expected to break the 5% barrier next year.

Lets stick to real figures here http://www.pcworld.com/busines...share_in_recent_months.html - 1.41% on desktop. I have no idea where your 10% is coming from. In terms of Server market share which is very hard to calculate, it is a whole different ball game. See my response to you in a comment below about the 5% thing.

simplezz said,

You can also install the deb:
https://code.google.com/p/ubuntu-tweak/downloads/list

No terminal is necessary. Or you can add the tweak repo using the software centre using the sources menu, again, no need to use the terminal. Of course, you're talking about third party repos here, not the main ones.

But I guess you have been using Linux for two years and know that already...

I know what you are talking about, it was just and example, and it was from the first search result, im talking about average user here, like i said in my other comment, we techies can find our way, but its a headache for average user.


You know as well as I do, it's a lot more hassle than that on Windows. Besides, what happens if you don't know the name of the software or where to find it?

nope, i dont see any hassle on Windows or OSX side, installing by clicking on installer is the easiest way to install something, i love the drag and copy style installing of OSX. If you dont know the name of software or where to find it, search engine is there for a reason. Search about the functionality of application, it gives you matching results. Also it can happen on any platform, including linux. Ubuntu software center doesnt have every application. The list is too small.


I can use Linux and I've had viruses before on Windows. Rootkits are especially nasty. A lot of people don't even know they have one because traditional anti-virus software can't detect a lot of them.

I havent installed Anti virus from almost 4 years. I do scan my PC after 1 month with different antivirus, and its always clean. Never had single problem with my Windows installation, no slowdowns, no annoying stuff ( I use torrent to download lots of stuff, but i use common sense to download stuff )


And you think you are a typical PC user?

What can i say, I'll prefer Power-typical PC user

BumbleBritches57 said,

The reason Linux sucks, is because they copied Windows, had they copied Mac OS, they'd atleast have a decent platform. and yes, they need to stop using tarballs and start using regular apps, if that doesn't happen, they'll never become popular at all. It's just completely unacceptable in this day and age.

Bullsh*t. KDE was inspired from Windows, and gnome was from OSX. Still they have small marketshare. and talking about decent platform, yeah i see OSX having 90% marketshare and biggest developer support.

ShMaunder said,
From a applications point of view, I fully agree with Simrat - basically, there is nothing but computer development applications available/matured for the Linux platform.

Absolute rubbish. Inkscape, Gimp, Evolution, DeVeDe, Mplayer, VLC, Firefox, Chromium, and many many others. You said you use Ubuntu??

ShMaunder said,

OK, I'll make a virus for Linux - there, Linux is no longer virus free. Anything can attach to your user profile for malicious purposes (same in Windows as well - UAC doesn't block it). Both Malware / Viruses can be replicated and spread throughout a network of computers if it has been written to do so. User profiles are fully writeable and normally aren't sandboxed in an application. It could also be added to user startup configs etc.

Go ahead. See how many computers you can infect. Most Linux users get their software from the repositories, not downloading random software from the net.

User startup? configs? Are you referring to $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/autostart ? That doesn't have root privileges. Are you also going to take into account different file locations per distro?

I'd really like to see you try.

ShMaunder said,

The fact is, if Linux market share increases, I bet there will be tons of malware and crap inbound. This will be accelerated by some of the silly users that allow it in. I'm sure there will be drive by crap as well.

Again, it all comes down to how users get their software. Linux has repositories, Windows Doesn't.

ShMaunder said,

Lets stick to real figures here http://www.pcworld.com/busines...share_in_recent_months.html - 1.41% on desktop. I have no idea where your 10% is coming from. In terms of Server market share which is very hard to calculate, it is a whole different ball game. See my response to you in a comment below about the 5% thing.

Even ballmer admitted that Linux marketshare is far higher than stats gleaned from browser usage. Remember many machines don't even have internet access.

Edited by simplezz, May 23 2012, 6:15pm :

phate said,
Ever tried buying a computer that didn't have a copy of windows pre-installed with the cost of the OS grafted into the price? I would happily buy a blank machine at a lower cost (if I didn't build my own), I think Dell came up with a partial solution, with the option to have Linux pre-installed.. but it cost MORE...?

This is the problem for most people who have advocated for linux over the past decade+. The reason Vendor's don't offer OEM linux installs is not enough ppl want it to warrent building out a product line.

Seriously, absorb that for a second. The Market *doesn't want* linux. It's not that MS has some monopoly on the market.

As far as everybody talking about linux alternatives to software on Win/Mac. They all suck huge donkey nuts. I mean, seriously. It is not that there is a product that is feature parity with its Win/Mac cousin. It has to do with UX. The UX of nearly every alternative software is ****. It is about compromise. In fact, whenever I use linux I feel I'm compromising to not pay $80 for and OS and installing MS Security Essentials.

If the linux development community would understand those two things it would be lightyears ahead of where it is. Linux has always felt 5 years behind in UX. If the OS was user friendly, the apps felt first class. Maybe, just maybe, people would start really wanting to use it.

simplezz said,
Even ballmer admitted that Linux marketshare is far higher than stats gleaned from browser usage. Remember many machines don't even have internet access.

You do realize he's talking about servers right? Each throw-away box used in Facebook/Google and other datacenters is considered and install. By no means, ever, will that effect desktop numbers. Linux has been a non-starter on desktops for decades. To state otherwise is to live in an RDF.

simplezz said,
Even ballmer admitted that Linux marketshare is far higher than stats gleaned from browser usage. Remember many machines don't even have internet access.

You do realize he's talking about servers right? Each throw-away box used in Facebook/Google and other datacenters is considered and install. By no means, ever, will that effect desktop numbers. Linux has been a non-starter on desktops for decades. To state otherwise is to live in an RDF.

simplezz said,
Absolute rubbish. Inkscape, Gimp, Evolution, DeVeDe, Mplayer, VLC, Firefox, Chromium, and many many others. You said you use Ubuntu??

Yes I've been using Ubuntu since 11.04 full time. I came across to Linux because of the development tools (and more recently because I realised how important FOSS is in a world that will soon be geared with pervasive computing). Great, those things are multi platform and basically all that Linux can run. Windows has them plus lots of other professional software (Adobe and Microsoft Office being a main). I personally can use the Gimp in place of Photoshop because I only use it to do basic stuff - but I know there are features in Photoshop not available in Gimp. Fact. Then you need to look at software maturity: Skype where you have to use skype-wrapper just to get it to integrate within Unity - it crashes half the time I try to start a webcam session etc. Firefox: which runs like a POS on Linux compared to Windows (currently typing this on it) - I could use Chromium, but I can't live without the awesome bar. Eclipse: runs up nearly a frigging gig and a half of RAM because Java (or something) is not optimized for Linux and runs like a POS - runs at 300 meg on Windows and smooth. Dual screens (in fact this isn't even software, but NVIDIA drivers and X), has to be setup in xorg.conf because Compiz screws itself when you try to set it during a session. The list goes on and on... but I still use it over Windows because firstly, as I said previous, I believe in FOSS; secondly, if everybody like me does the same, then these applications will mature and more will come to the table; thirdly, I love the terminal (Windows has a pile of w**k). Linux is great without X - Wayland may improve such things.

simplezz said,
Go ahead. See how many computers you can infect. Most Linux users get their software from the repositories, not downloading random software from the net.

User startup? configs? Are you referring to $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/autostart ? That doesn't have root privileges. Are you also going to take into account different file locations per distro?

I'd really like to see you try.

Yes, most users at the moment get it from there. You wait until it gains some popularity and repositories won't be the only source. Hell, even now I've downloaded deb files from reliable sources. I see all sorts of weird security issues popping up on the update manager every week, these types of exploits can be used. I was referring to ~/.config/autostart not global /etc/...autostart.

simplezz said,
Even ballmer admitted that Linux marketshare is far higher than stats gleaned from browser usage. Remember many machines don't even have internet access.

If you can give me a reliable source for the 10%, I will eat my own words. I should also add, there are lots of Windows computers that don't have internet access.

simrat said,

. I want to Install a plugin or software on Windows and OSX? click and install. On linux im tired of " Sudo - do sh*t ". Why cant FOSS developers use normal installation methods?

You mean like go into the package manager and type what you want and click Apply? Or go to the Software Center and click Install? It's actually easier and they all update through the OS itself.