Up to 500 million Windows 8 users by end of 2013, says Ballmer

Earlier today, we reported that Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said that 350 million devices with Windows 7 would be sold in 2012. Now a new report from AFP claims that Ballmer has made yet another prediction, this time on the sales of Windows 8.

In a speech to the Seoul Digital Forum in South Korea today, Ballmer said that up to 500 million users will be using a Windows 8 device by the end of 2013. Microsoft is expected to launch Windows 8 officially sometime before the end of 2012. Ballmer added, "It's really, in some senses, a dawning of the rebirth of MS Windows... It's certainly the most important piece of work we've done."

Ballmer also said that Microsoft will "soon" launch a version of Skype for Windows 8. That might indicate that Skype could be part of the Release Preview version of Windows 8, which is scheduled to launch sometime in the first week of June.

Ballmer also spoke about the cloud computing industry today, predicting that in a few years there will only be a few companies that will dominate that industry. He stated, "The number of core (cloud) platforms, around which software developers will do their innovation, is not ever-broadening. It's really a quite smaller and focused number -- Windows, various forms of Linux, the Apple ecosystem."

Image via Microsoft

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Optimistic, but it's not impossible nor is it unlikely. I think there's a very good chance it'll sell like wildfire. We'll see.

efjay said,
I can haz Metro?

You're welcome to have it! But are you going to recommend it to your parents when they are looking for a new computer?

What is gonna happen is a proliferation of form factors with Windows 8 starting October. Which means, you won't be able to escape it, so although you might not like it, you will likely end up buying it on a PC yes and format it with Windows 7, but it will still count as an activated sale.

Windows Vista was not widely loved, but that was an OS that was running on 400 million systems world wide. An OS that was considered as industry panned, still amazing.

With over 1/2 of the people on this forum bitching at how crappy Windows 8 is, there isn't a chance in hell it will hit those numbers unless he counts all of the retail computers purchased even though they're wiped and reverted back to windows 7.

It's a long shot but in no way unachievable. With increased population and increased sales in general, 500 million is feasible.

Theres a lot of people on here saying they will not upgrade to windows 8 on their PC's. On a laptop I can agree, I will be hesitant to upgrade that because of the trackpad. But I've used W8 CP on a desktop PC and loved it. I will definatley be upgrading it to Windows 8, but for my laptop, as I said, we'll just have to wait and see. Making the upgrade to home premium 50$ would be the shocker that would make it take off for sure, I think.

Yes, I'm surprised that so many people are complaining that Windows 8 doesn't work on desktops - it does - but I don't see many people complaining about Windows 8 on laptops with trackpads. Windows 8 works very well with a physical mouse and on touch screens, but less well on a laptop with a trackpad (in my experience). But most of my experience is Win8 on desktop, and it's great.

Neither of you are actually reading the posts by those of us who KNOW how the general public is going to react to Windows 8's invisible controls, missing Start button, and lack of close gadgets.

This forum is NOT representative of those people. You know, the vast majority of the 95% desktop market share MS used to have...

g0dlike said,
500 million users moaning about Windows 8 and craving for Windows 9... that's for sure.

Yup and then those same people applaud Windows 9 for being the greatest thing since sliced bread when in fact it's only a minor step up from Windows 8. Just like what happened with Windows 7 compared to Windows Vista.

neonspark said,

SP1

History shows that it will take 1 or 2 FULL OS revisions for MS to put the things back in that the screwed up removing this time around.

Remember the UP button!

It sounds ridiculous at first, but when you consider Windows 7's sales, and the amount of people that still need to get off XP, this isn't as ridiculous as it seems.

I feel that any Win7 Customer today or tomorrow should be able to download and upgrade to Win8 for a fraction of the cost.

You guys think you know it all,
you think your smarter/better than him?.

well, your not....
far from it...

your just jelllous.

grow up !

aiir said,
You guys think you know it all,
you think your smarter/better than him?.

well, your not....
far from it...

your just jelllous.

grow up !

There are probably a number of members on neowin (not me xD) that are smarter than he is, just saying

thealexweb said,

There are probably a number of members on neowin (not me xD) that are smarter than he is, just saying

Ballmer KNOWS that I'm smarter than him. 8)

laserfloyd said,
Whoa... I mean I love Win8 and all but 500 million? Wow... Show me the money.

350 million/year pc sales + Q4 2012 + xbox 3 + wp8.

easily achievable.

Didn't Ballmer also categorise Google's Android as a non-threat to WP, and claim that the iPhone would fail? And we know how those turned out don't we

simplezz said,
Didn't Ballmer also categorise Google's Android as a non-threat to WP, and claim that the iPhone would fail? And we know how those turned out don't we

doesn't every CEO do that? it's THEIR JOB.

simplezz said,
Didn't Ballmer also categorise Google's Android as a non-threat to WP, and claim that the iPhone would fail? And we know how those turned out don't we

At that time, a 500 dollar phone WAS indeed ridiculous. Times change.

efjay said,
The Metro haters are having fits already, priceless!

But you keep up without a sweat............... congratulations..................

thealexweb said,
If the great Metro stratergy fails, Ballmer needs to go, he's already made mistake after mistake.

And made MS more successful than it has ever been. Everyone seems to miss the most salient measure of a CEO. They make more and more money = good ceo.

thealexweb said,
If the great Metro stratergy fails, Ballmer needs to go, he's already made mistake after mistake.

He'll probably just blame it all on Sinofsky and have his only real successor quit.

blackjezuz said,

And made MS more successful than it has ever been. Everyone seems to miss the most salient measure of a CEO. They make more and more money = good ceo.


with or without Steve Ballmer Microsoft will make money.
Without him MS will make a little more.

still1 said,

with or without Steve Ballmer Microsoft will make money.
Without him MS will make a little more.
So let me think about this logic a bit:

1. If Apple does well, then it's because they have an awesome CEO.
2. If Microsoft does well, then it's because MS is awesome regardless of the CEO.

And how do you know Microsoft will make MORE money by changing CEO?

blackjezuz said,

And made MS more successful than it has ever been. Everyone seems to miss the most salient measure of a CEO. They make more and more money = good ceo.

MS is making more money thanks to its core products like Windows and Office, a few years back Microsoft aimed to have a 40% stake in the phone market and have 10% of company revenues comig from Bing by 2012, they are no where near where they should be today.

KevinN206 said,
So let me think about this logic a bit:

1. If Apple does well, then it's because they have an awesome CEO.
2. If Microsoft does well, then it's because MS is awesome regardless of the CEO.

And how do you know Microsoft will make MORE money by changing CEO?


Yes, because Steve brought Apple from bankruptcy to mega billion corporation.
ballmer on the other hand have screwed up more that he should.
well, making more money is a metaphoric statement and not to be taken literally.

thealexweb said,

MS is making more money thanks to its core products like Windows and Office, a few years back Microsoft aimed to have a 40% stake in the phone market and have 10% of company revenues comig from Bing by 2012, they are no where near where they should be today.

You should always aim for the sky.

simplezz said,

He'll probably just blame it all on Sinofsky and have his only real successor quit.

Up until recently Sinofsky came across as smart and competent then he gave his full backing to Metro for every type of device, his credibility slipped a little that day,

thealexweb said,
If the great Metro stratergy fails, Ballmer needs to go, he's already made mistake after mistake.

ballmer needs to go for different reasons: letting apple/google get ahead. metro is just the idea from some designers. ideas come and go.

Probably new devices only. They would be lucky for even a million people to willingly buy windows 8. Until they sort out this no start menu non-sense this will be branded as Vista SP3.

Gotenks98 said,
Probably new devices only. They would be lucky for even a million people to willingly buy windows 8. Until they sort out this no start menu non-sense this will be branded as Vista SP3.

Considering hundreds of thousands downloaded it to try it out I think that estimate might be off. The general public didn't even know about the previews. It'll do far better than a million but remains to be seen if it can come near Win7.

It will sell more than that due to Enterprise Agreements alone, just as Vista did.

Gotenks98 said,
Probably new devices only. They would be lucky for even a million people to willingly buy windows 8. Until they sort out this no start menu non-sense this will be branded as Vista SP3.

Even if bullish on Tablets, have to remember Microsoft has no iTunes. Zune is in a flux, they're starting over with it, again.

MorganX said,
Even if bullish on Tablets, have to remember Microsoft has no iTunes. Zune is in a flux, they're starting over with it, again.

They're rebranding it, not trashing it. They can call it whatever they want as long as they keep the software the same. Zune is far and beyond better than iTunes. I cringe to even open iTunes unless I have to. It's just that people hear iTunes and know it. They hear Zune and say "derp?" It will benefit nicely from rebranding if they do it right.

laserfloyd said,

They're rebranding it, not trashing it. They can call it whatever they want as long as they keep the software the same. Zune is far and beyond better than iTunes. I cringe to even open iTunes unless I have to. It's just that people hear iTunes and know it. They hear Zune and say "derp?" It will benefit nicely from rebranding if they do it right.

I like Zune compared to what was before ... but it is not iTunes. Managing playlists and music (copy paste mp3s from itunes playlist to SD for car or Android, etc). Sorting, the store, playback. I don't think it's even close, iTunes still far superior. Doesn't mean Zune bad, just not in iTunes league IMO. I do think the software is going to change in Windows 8. Hopefully much tighter and better UI like iTunes.

MorganX said,
Even if bullish on Tablets, have to remember Microsoft has no iTunes. Zune is in a flux, they're starting over with it, again.

let me ask you the obvious. did itunes stop android? no. try again. itunes is 2005 technology. nobody cares at this point as there are plenty of alternatives.

It didn't stop Blackberries or Windows Mobile either. Windows is 1995 technology. There are no meaningful alternatives to iPad or iPhone ecosystem at the moment. Microsoft hopes to deliver that, it's existing Zune has faile, it is rebranding it and delivering a new client. It will not help them sell 500 million units in a year in its current state as it has not come close to doing that with it's 2011-2012 technology. Microsoft has yet to deliver in this area. First it will need to deliver Serial Bluetooth Profiles

neonspark said,

let me ask you the obvious. did itunes stop android? no. try again. itunes is 2005 technology. nobody cares at this point as there are plenty of alternatives.

MorganX said,
That number sounds ridiculous unless he's adding Tablets, Phones, and PCs. Even then it's a little over the top.

they ship 350million PC licenses / year and if he starts counting from Q4 2012 then it is not that crazy.

ok.. only way this can happen is if MS prices W8 super cheap - like $50 for the home premiulnm upgrade

guru said,
ok.. only way this can happen is if MS prices W8 super cheap - like $50 for the home premiulnm upgrade

Weren't the Taiwanese OEM's complaining that the $100 licence fee for WOA was too much? If that's the OEM price, imagine the consumer price Unless of course they discount the PC version more heavily.

RichardK said,
The company I work for will be skipping Windows 8 just like we skipped Windows Vista.

I guess you're still running windows 98 too?

Most likely XP or Win 7 like the overwheming majority of PC users.

neonspark said,

I guess you're still running windows 98 too?

Travelar said,
And a few million new Apple users by then too...

if going from win7 to win8 is hard, going to macOSX is like getting your teeth drilled by the dentist. no. nobody can take that much pain.

neonspark said,

if going from win7 to win8 is hard, going to macOSX is like getting your teeth drilled by the dentist. no. nobody can take that much pain.


There are millions of people going to the dentist each day, so apparently they can.

.Neo said,

There are millions of people going to the dentist each day, so apparently they can.

And going to the Dentist is a good thing.

A little optimistic perhaps, given the mostly negative reaction so far from techies (which is one of the things that led to Vista's relatively low adoption). Assuming the worst case scenario and Windows 8 turns out to be another Vista-like "failure" it'll take more like 3 years to sell half a billion copies.

PC sales growth may be slowing but it hasn't stopped. Hundreds of millions of PCs will be sold each year for the foreseeable future. Whether the majority of buyers will choose to use Windows 8 on those new PCs, we'll see. But I think most people will just take what they're given, and by the time W9 comes around there will at least half a billion W8 users. Just as there were about half a billion Vista users by the time W7 came out.

The real question is if MS can get people (users and developers) to transition to Metro apps from "legacy" desktop apps. If they can get a good portion of the total install base using primarily Metro in 3 years that would be quite the success.

Nick K said,
A little optimistic perhaps, given the mostly negative reaction so far from techies (which is one of the things that led to Vista's relatively low adoption). Assuming the worst case scenario and Windows 8 turns out to be another Vista-like "failure" it'll take more like 3 years to sell half a billion copies.

PC sales growth may be slowing but it hasn't stopped. Hundreds of millions of PCs will be sold each year for the foreseeable future. Whether the majority of buyers will choose to use Windows 8 on those new PCs, we'll see. But I think most people will just take what they're given, and by the time W9 comes around there will at least half a billion W8 users. Just as there were about half a billion Vista users by the time W7 came out.

The real question is if MS can get people (users and developers) to transition to Metro apps from "legacy" desktop apps. If they can get a good portion of the total install base using primarily Metro in 3 years that would be quite the success.

A huge part of Vista's failure was the fact that everyone talked about how massive a failure the development of it was from start to finish and that after all that time it was still a work in progress. Then Apple piled on. There are alot of techies griping about Metro but nobody knows about Win8 outside of the enthusiast's bubble. We also will be talking about new form factors which mill give this a whole different dimension from vista. I think half a billion in a year sounds high but to compare win8 and vista is just not valid. Win8 is a rock solid OS with a completely new gui. Vista was foundationally troubled.

Nick K said,
A little optimistic perhaps, given the mostly negative reaction so far from techies (which is one of the things that led to Vista's relatively low adoption). Assuming the worst case scenario and Windows 8 turns out to be another Vista-like "failure" it'll take more like 3 years to sell half a billion copies.

PC sales growth may be slowing but it hasn't stopped. Hundreds of millions of PCs will be sold each year for the foreseeable future. Whether the majority of buyers will choose to use Windows 8 on those new PCs, we'll see. But I think most people will just take what they're given, and by the time W9 comes around there will at least half a billion W8 users. Just as there were about half a billion Vista users by the time W7 came out.

The real question is if MS can get people (users and developers) to transition to Metro apps from "legacy" desktop apps. If they can get a good portion of the total install base using primarily Metro in 3 years that would be quite the success.

chose it or not, I think windows 8 will be the default choice by millions. so even if some downgrade to 7, it will be a meaningless number of people.

I definitely will be at least two of those users. I love the new theme for the Desktop (where I do expect to spend most of my time as a developer), and I also love the utility of the Metro UI for my secondary monitor, or even just a portion of one. Add to that the speed gains and lower memory footprint, and there's not much that I don't like about Windows 8.

I could see this happened if Windows tablets start booming in the next year. But this won't happen in the PC population. I can't see that many people giving up the gem that is Win 7.

Astra.Xtreme said,
I could see this happened if Windows tablets start booming in the next year. But this won't happen in the PC population. I can't see that many people giving up the gem that is Win 7.

The problem is, even if Windows tablets do boom, it's only going to cannibalise the more profitable desktop/laptop/netbook PC market anyway.

simplezz said,

The problem is, even if Windows tablets do boom, it's only going to cannibalise the more profitable desktop/laptop/netbook PC market anyway.

the day a tablet can run corei7 extreme edition with SLI, it will canibalize things. until then, you're smoking something. desktops aren't going to be replaced and neither will power labptops. netbooks? probably, and those are not PROFITABLE at all.

neonspark said,

the day a tablet can run corei7 extreme edition with SLI, it will canibalize things. until then, you're smoking something. desktops aren't going to be replaced and neither will power labptops. netbooks? probably, and those are not PROFITABLE at all.

Yup agreed. People said that the iPad was going to ruin the laptop/desktop market, and I believe the PC market is doing better than ever. People want power, a physical keyboard/mouse, and big screens. All of which can't be done with a tablet (as of now).

neonspark said,

the day a tablet can run corei7 extreme edition with SLI, it will canibalize things. until then, you're smoking something. desktops aren't going to be replaced and neither will power labptops. netbooks? probably, and those are not PROFITABLE at all.

that's probably 1% of the PC market. the majority of PC buyers don't buy high end gaming or workstation rigs. heck most gamers don't even buy i7's since it's absolutely a waste for gaming who won't use half the cpu power anyway.

even among gamers sli is rare.

Panda X said,
That's really optimistic considering the hate towards it I've seen.

I think the hate is because they nerfed the desktop mode the process.

Deviate_X said,

I think the hate is because they nerfed the desktop in the process.

This is all false. The desktop has not been nerfed in any way and has actually gained many cool new features.

Panda X said,
That's really optimistic considering the hate towards it I've seen.

That's just the vocal minority commenting online. This happens with EVERY new Windows release.

Panda X said,
That's really optimistic considering the hate towards it I've seen.

plus the huge adaptation of windows 7 makes it harder to switch. W7 would be 55% share by then.

I will probably use it on my main PC.

mrp04 said,

This is all false. The desktop has not been nerfed in any way and has actually gained many cool new features.

It's been demoted to an app, how can that be categorised as anything else but nerfed?

Panda X said,
That's really optimistic considering the hate towards it I've seen.

You can view it two ways:
1. You lose functionality because the start MENU is gone
2. You gain functionality because the start SCREEN has been introduced.

So it's a glass half full mentality. Time will tell what the masses think. Most people don't reach tech blogs so we can't know until it happens.

simplezz said,

It's been demoted to an app, how can that be categorised as anything else but nerfed?

Seriously? The desktop in Windows 8 is not an app.

Panda X said,
That's really optimistic considering the hate towards it I've seen.

in other words, identical to every windows version ever released. always hated, sells millions.

neonspark said,

in other words, identical to every windows version ever released. always hated, sells millions.


Not true!! Windows 7 had a very positive reviews when it was on beta/rc stage and obviously RTM.

Vista on the other hand had negative reviews like 8 now. obviously it will sell in millions(bundled with every PC, so yes) but how many is the real question.

thealexweb said,

Maybe / maybe not but it is referred to as an app officially.

From what I've read, the Desktop is like an app since one can choose to use it or not and switch between it and something else as they would with any other app. The poster I was responding to said that the Desktop has been "nerfed" into an app. And I am saying no, it hasn't.

mrp04 said,

That's just the vocal minority commenting online. This happens with EVERY new Windows release.

Yeah I understand that, but I've never seen so much hate toward any previous release before. Not to mention how misunderstood the start screen is, people thinking the desktop is gone or "demoted to an app" or "nerfed" when in reality it isn't, and people who think the start screen doesn't retain all the previous functionality that the start menu does when in reality it does as well.

laserfloyd said,

You can view it two ways:
1. You lose functionality because the start MENU is gone
2. You gain functionality because the start SCREEN has been introduced.

So it's a glass half full mentality. Time will tell what the masses think. Most people don't reach tech blogs so we can't know until it happens.

Considering you can do everything in the start screen (and then some) as you could in the start menu, I see it as a gain rather than loss.

simplezz said,

It's been demoted to an app, how can that be categorised as anything else but nerfed?

At some point you're going to have to actually try to use windows 8 if you're going to keep flaming it and hating it, and not just pretend to. the fact that you haven't used it shines through on your uneducated posts full of faulty half truths or blatantly outright wrong info.

Panda X said,

Considering you can do everything in the start screen (and then some) as you could in the start menu, I see it as a gain rather than loss.

Comprehensive search? Jump lists? MRU Apps? Full context-menus for items, one-click access to Devices, cascading app menus, compatibility with low-bandwidth RDP... I just see reduced-functionality in a jarring, distracting hard switch away from my work-flow.

Well, I give him credit for being confident. I do hope it is successful in the marketplace. I personally just don't have any intention of installing on my existing computers. I will likely buy a Windows RT Tablet with it though.

Mr. Dee said,
Well, I give him credit for being confident. I do hope it is successful in the marketplace. I personally just don't have any intention of installing on my existing computers. I will likely buy a Windows RT Tablet with it though.

his confidence comes from PC sales, all which will have windows 8.

Melfster said,
This why Balmer is horrible CEO.

MS has had far more success under Ballmer than Gates. I don't get the Ballmer haters or what they're basing their hate on.

JSYOUNG571 said,
Nope! I enjoy my Windows Phone 7.5 tiles and all, but I do not want it on my PC. I will stick to Windows 7.

I agree, on a phone or a tablet its perfect but for a desktop PC no way!

JSYOUNG571 said,
Nope! I enjoy my Windows Phone 7.5 tiles and all, but I do not want it on my PC. I will stick to Windows 7.

Have fun using your inconsistent experience then I think I'll be switching to using Mac OS X and an iPhone because of the cohesive and consistent experience it provides. That's if I decide I prefer it to Windows 8, which is looking likely so far.

JSYOUNG571 said,
Nope! I enjoy my Windows Phone 7.5 tiles and all, but I do not want it on my PC. I will stick to Windows 7.

I'm 100% getting the tablet, wheather definitely be goes on my desktop is 50%/50%

Ently said,

I agree, on a phone or a tablet its perfect

I keep hearing this, but I'm starting question the validity of that claim.

1. WOA doesn't support legacy x86 apps, so it's like starting again with WP7.
2. x86 Win8 tablets are going to be very expensive, heavy, and consume lots of power.
3. Android has 45% of the tablet market with Apple taking the lions share. It's the smartphone market all over again.

JSYOUNG571 said,
Nope! I enjoy my Windows Phone 7.5 tiles and all, but I do not want it on my PC. I will stick to Windows 7.

he is unlikely to include upgrades. most of these are NEW pc shipments.

simplezz said,

I keep hearing this, but I'm starting question the validity of that claim.

2. x86 Win8 tablets are going to be very expensive, heavy, and consume lots of power.


AMD Trinity says otherwise

Calum said,

Have fun using your inconsistent experience then I think I'll be switching to using Mac OS X and an iPhone because of the cohesive and consistent experience it provides. That's if I decide I prefer it to Windows 8, which is looking likely so far.

LOL, Have you used Mac OS X and iPhone iOS recently? They are more different than Windows 8 and Windows 7 or Windows 8 and WP7.

You are either already a Mac fan, or really misinformed, or really dumb.

simplezz said,

I keep hearing this, but I'm starting question the validity of that claim.

1. WOA doesn't support legacy x86 apps, so it's like starting again with WP7.
2. x86 Win8 tablets are going to be very expensive, heavy, and consume lots of power.
3. Android has 45% of the tablet market with Apple taking the lions share. It's the smartphone market all over again.

1) No... Native compiled Apps that the developer doesn't 'recompile' will not run. How many successful developers will not simply recompile for ARM, seriously? Do you think hitting 'rebuild' is that hard?

2) No... Win7 Tablets already are selling in the $200-400 range, with better screen technologies than Android and iOS, along with 1000 times the OS features. (People are doing handwriting recognition and full pressure sensitive drawing in REAL Photoshop on these devices.) They are also getting 10 hours of battery life.
Even going back to the Atom 270, it was in range of ARM power consumption levels, and when the speed/performance was factored into the equation, the x86 Atom based Netbooks we far ahead, especially when they are running Windows 7 and being compared to an ARM based Android or iOS device that are horribly slow, and Android doesn't get much better battery even today.

There are x86 technologies from Intel and AMD right now, that when used with Windows 7 and ESPECIALLY Windows 8 with the addition new power management technologies that will put the x86 and x64 tablets into power consumption striking distance of ARM and provide far more performance.

The Windows 'pricing' for an x86 Tablet will not be 'expensive' as Microsoft will continue to offer a low cost variation, just like the $20-30 Windows 7 Starter edition that some Tablets/Netbooks have been shipping with for years now.

3) Yep, and Android has security problems and version issues that Google will not be able to get under control, or they would have already.

Marketshare when the product turns over every 1-3 years is volatile.

In 1990 Windows was barely known to the world, and Apple owned 99% of the consumer GUI market. In 1991, Wordperfect had 90% of the wordprcessing market, and by 1993 were getting Orin Hatch in Utah to get the government involved to save their company. (Ironic since Republican 'small government' *cough*, Hatch did run to to their aid and put pressure on Microsoft through the DOJ in 1992)


Anyone that bets against Microsoft is a fool... There is always the chance Microsoft will mess up, but even if they do, they can fix it and retry several times before they will be hurt.

The world and users also seem to forget the people behind the leading 'design' 'usability' concepts and the leading software engineers work for Microsoft. And the fun secret is that the top technical hardware engineers also work for Microsoft

thenetavenger said,

LOL, Have you used Mac OS X and iPhone iOS recently? They are more different than Windows 8 and Windows 7 or Windows 8 and WP7.

You are either already a Mac fan, or really misinformed, or really dumb.


Thank you for suggesting I might be dumb. No, I am not dumb. I am talking about the consistency between Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7 because JSYOUNG571 stated he was sticking with Windows 7 while he enjoyed his Windows Phone 7. I haven't used either Mac OS X or iOS much yet, and I would of course use them quite a bit before deciding for sure whether I'll switch; however, screenshots prove that both operating systems look much more consistent than Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7. Would you disagree with that? If so, why?

Calum said,

Thank you for suggesting I might be dumb. No, I am not dumb. I am talking about the consistency between Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7 because JSYOUNG571 stated he was sticking with Windows 7 while he enjoyed his Windows Phone 7. I haven't used either Mac OS X or iOS much yet, and I would of course use them quite a bit before deciding for sure whether I'll switch; however, screenshots prove that both operating systems look much more consistent than Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7. Would you disagree with that? If so, why?

Honestly I wouldn't say that iOS and OSX look any more close to OSX than WP7 does to Win7.

they'r eboth completely different. the difference is that OSX has far more frequent OS updates that are also smaller, so they are gradually implementing iOS features into OSX. they don't however look similar they somewhat operate similarly in some fashions.

The only thing that's really similar is Safari and safari. and I'm not all that happy with the way safari works on my ipad in the first place, it could have been much better designed for a pad/mobile device. like not having the close button for the first tab where my finger will easily hit it when hitting back or other stuff in the region. or having the adress bar located at the bottom

HawkMan said,

Honestly I wouldn't say that iOS and OSX look any more close to OSX than WP7 does to Win7.

they'r eboth completely different. the difference is that OSX has far more frequent OS updates that are also smaller, so they are gradually implementing iOS features into OSX. they don't however look similar they somewhat operate similarly in some fashions.

The only thing that's really similar is Safari and safari. and I'm not all that happy with the way safari works on my ipad in the first place, it could have been much better designed for a pad/mobile device. like not having the close button for the first tab where my finger will easily hit it when hitting back or other stuff in the region. or having the adress bar located at the bottom


OS X and iOS share some similar elements, and some of the elements are exactly the same. Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7 don't even have any similar elements, let alone elements that are the same.

The following is just one example of elements that are the same: OS X (http://i.imgur.com/5Yqww.png); iOS (http://i.imgur.com/P6KxR.jpg). I realise that is what you're talking about when you mention them adding iOS features to OS X, but even the Dock on the iOS homescreen is now 3D and looks just like the Dock in OS X. So could you possibly expand on your comment, to explain to me the differences in look between iOS and OS X, please? It may well be that they look very different; I haven't used either operating system much, but I haven't noticed an inconsistent experience. Either way, after reading the above, surely you can't maintain that statement about how Windows 7 looks to Windows Phone 7, compared with how OS X looks to iOS?

EDIT: To add, here's an article I just found that talks about the unified experience I'm referring to: http://www.cultofmac.com/14693...-os-x-mountain-lion-opinion. I'm still open to being proven wrong, though, if you can

Edited by Calum, May 23 2012, 9:33am :

Stoffel said,
Does that include WinRT tablets or just the 'real' Windows 8?

Windows 8 RT (Not WinRT) tablets are REAL Windows 8. The difference is they are running on the ARM architecture instead of the x86 or x64 CPU architecture.

How are people already misunderstanding something this simple?

Please, STOP MIXING THIS UP... Windows 8 RT is NOT Windows CE, it is NOT a different OS, it is Windows 8 NT, just running on ARM.

NT is NT is NT

Why do people 'intentionally' hold on to ignorance to justify a technology ideology. Do they enjoy hating Microsoft or hating Windows so much they will remain ignorant just to feel better about another technology or company or themselves?

thenetavenger said,

Windows 8 RT (Not WinRT) tablets are REAL Windows 8. The difference is they are running on the ARM architecture instead of the x86 or x64 CPU architecture.

How are people already misunderstanding something this simple?

Please, STOP MIXING THIS UP... Windows 8 RT is NOT Windows CE, it is NOT a different OS, it is Windows 8 NT, just running on ARM.

NT is NT is NT

Why do people 'intentionally' hold on to ignorance to justify a technology ideology. Do they enjoy hating Microsoft or hating Windows so much they will remain ignorant just to feel better about another technology or company or themselves?

Why the arrogant reply???? If you would read more of my post you would know I'm anything but a MS hater. and for the record, It's not called Windows 8 RT but just Windows RT!!!

MS wants you to know they are NOT the same OS

thenetavenger said,

Windows 8 RT (Not WinRT) tablets are REAL Windows 8. The difference is they are running on the ARM architecture instead of the x86 or x64 CPU architecture.

How are people already misunderstanding something this simple?

Please, STOP MIXING THIS UP... Windows 8 RT is NOT Windows CE, it is NOT a different OS, it is Windows 8 NT, just running on ARM.

NT is NT is NT

Why do people 'intentionally' hold on to ignorance to justify a technology ideology. Do they enjoy hating Microsoft or hating Windows so much they will remain ignorant just to feel better about another technology or company or themselves?


Windows 8 on ARM may as well be Windows CE. At the moment, it even has less applications supported on it. Windows 8 on ARM is metro only. There will never be any supported Windows applications running on it, only metro apps.

So in that senes, Windows 8 tablets on ARM is very much like Windows CE and is not a 'real' version of windows. It is NT, and shares the same core parts but thats where it sends.
For the user, its a Windows Metro tablet, forget the Windows 8 for the time being. It is metro. Thats it. Nothing more nothing less.
As time moves on and Microsoft pushes Metro to the desktop we'll all cry as developers struggle to give us desktop usability back and we'll all adapt, but there is 10+ years of classic desktop software that people will still want to use, and when it comes to searching on line for software people are going to question Why can't they run VLC to watch their MKV movies on their Windows 8 tablet, and why aren't the codecs installer .exe files working?

Ently said,
Dream on says World

You only need look at the history of Ballmer's predictions to realise he's about as good as a weather forecaster.

Ently said,
Dream on says World

I think what he said has actually been misquoted.

The proper quote should have been "Up to 500 million angry Windows 8 users by end of 2013"

sagum said,

I think what he said has actually been misquoted.

The proper quote should have been "Up to 500 million angry Windows 8 users by end of 2013"

ROFL!

Ently said,
Dream on says World

let's see, since every PC will have it bundled then that's 350+ million in 2013 alone assuming the demand for PCs stays flat compared to this year and going off the earlier quoted number for windows 7 sales in 2012. So let's say it RTM's at the end of Q3 2012. That adds 87 million copies at current PC sales levels. Total is then 437 million. Where is the difference of 70 or so million? tablets and windows phone 8 and possible xbox next all which run windows 8.

so you see, not only is ballmer right, he's actually being conservative. this is windows. get over it.

sagum said,

I think what he said has actually been misquoted.

The proper quote should have been "Up to 500 million angry Windows 8 users by end of 2013"

Or "OS License sold".................................

Users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users, users...

Fritzly said,

Or "OS License sold".................................

And in typical dishonest microsoft fashion they will most likely include OEM licenses in an attempt to show higher numbers.

Order_66 said,

And in typical dishonest microsoft fashion they will most likely include OEM licenses in an attempt to show higher numbers.

The majority of Windows is all OEM licenses, what are you expecting? People building DIY computers and buying the retail Windows off the shelf as the only numbers that count?

I think you need to re-phrase your statement a little better, unless you really this silly.

As for Windows OEM license numbers... Using Windows 7 as a model to see how close they run, Microsoft is not being very deceptive.

Using web and other forms of 'user OS' analytics shows that the Microsoft's numbers are very close, and sometimes are 'under' the actual 'usage' rates due to MSDN, TechNet, dual activations and piracy.

So about Microsoft being dishonest... This only seems to exist in your head.

Besides even if Microsoft is off 1,10,50 million 'in use' copies of a version of Windows, it is still accurate enough based on the huge user base to be in most margins of error.

Remember that there are more computers/people actually 'using' Windows 7 than all the Macs, iPhones, and iPad sold combined in the History of Apple going back to 1984.

When you add in XP, Vista, various other desktop, server versions you get to 1.5 billion in use copies of Windows. Add in the additional embedded (NT & CE), and various devices that range from routers and cable modems to Ford cars and ATMs, the number of devices/computers jumps to an estimated 4+ billion.

Do you really thing Microsoft needs to 'lie' about their numbers?

thenetavenger said,

The majority of Windows is all OEM licenses, what are you expecting? People building DIY computers and buying the retail Windows off the shelf as the only numbers that count?

I think you need to re-phrase your statement a little better, unless you really this silly.

As for Windows OEM license numbers... Using Windows 7 as a model to see how close they run, Microsoft is not being very deceptive.

Using web and other forms of 'user OS' analytics shows that the Microsoft's numbers are very close, and sometimes are 'under' the actual 'usage' rates due to MSDN, TechNet, dual activations and piracy.

So about Microsoft being dishonest... This only seems to exist in your head.

Besides even if Microsoft is off 1,10,50 million 'in use' copies of a version of Windows, it is still accurate enough based on the huge user base to be in most margins of error.

Remember that there are more computers/people actually 'using' Windows 7 than all the Macs, iPhones, and iPad sold combined in the History of Apple going back to 1984.

When you add in XP, Vista, various other desktop, server versions you get to 1.5 billion in use copies of Windows. Add in the additional embedded (NT & CE), and various devices that range from routers and cable modems to Ford cars and ATMs, the number of devices/computers jumps to an estimated 4+ billion.

Do you really thing Microsoft needs to 'lie' about their numbers?

I was referring to their previous attempts at dishonesty in regards to when Vista tanked, microsoft knew that vista was a disaster in sales but they kept throwing the OEM numbers out there to try and make it look as if vista was selling good, the fanboys were also doing this as well, many of the claims were 'vista has sold X number of copies so it's far from being a failure' and we all know how well vista turned out for them.
It's outright dishonesty any way you look at it and I have a feeling they will do this with windows 8 as well because 8 will most likely bomb as bad as vista did if not worse, they don't need to "lie" about the numbers, just be dishonest about them.

neonspark said,

let's see, since every PC will have it bundled then that's 350+ million in 2013 alone assuming the demand for PCs stays flat

so you see, not only is ballmer right, he's actually being conservative. this is windows. get over it.

Much like when Vista was released, the user community demanded XP be installed instead. This will be the same with Windows 8.

There may be 350 million computers licensed for Windows 8, but there will only be about 100 people using it. The rest will still be on Windows 7