Valve's Gabe Newell calls Windows 8 "this giant sadness"

Valve founder Gabe Newell has chastised Windows 8 once again in a recent interview, following previous remarks in which he called Windows 8 "a catastrophe" and said Microsoft's new operating system will make people "rage quit computing."

Those prior statements were made before Windows 8 launched in October. Since then, nearly seven percent of all users of Valve's Steam service have adopted Windows 8 – a substantial percentage more than its Linux and Mac users and just behind the market share of the seven-year-old Windows Vista.

Despite the figures, Newell still isn't happy with Microsoft's latest operating system. In an interview with The Verge at CES 2013, Newell called Windows 8 "this giant sadness" and claims the adoption of the operating system shows a lack of consumer interest. He states:

The thing about Windows 8 wasn’t just [Microsoft's] distribution. As somebody who participates in the overall PC ecosystem, it’s totally great when faster wireless networks and standards come out, or when graphics get faster. Windows 8 was like this giant sadness. It just hurts everybody in the PC business. Rather than everybody being all excited to go buy a new PC, buying new software to run on it, we’ve had a 20+ percent decline in PC sales -- it’s like "holy cow that’s not what the new generation of the operating system is supposed to do." There’s supposed to be a 40 percent uptake, not a 20 percent decline, so that’s what really scares me. When I started using it I was like "oh my god..." I find [Windows 8] unusable.

Newell also talks in detail about Valve's hardware plans, including their own "Steam Box" PC plans, but states Valve's version of the computer won't be running Windows – instead, Newell said, "That’ll be a Linux box, [and] if you want to install Windows you can." He also envisions a time where the Steam Box will be more of a server than a normal gaming PC, saying eventually one PC could connect to "eight televisions and eight controllers and everybody [would be getting] great performance out of it."

All of that sounds good, and Newell seems convinced that Valve can go after the game console business that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo currently compete in. Much of the hypothetical success of a Steam Box device would come down to whether or not the internet accepts it, he said.

"If you do something that is cool, that's actually worth people's time, then they'll adopt it," Newell told The Verge. "If you do something that's not cool and sucks, you can spend as many marketing dollars as you want, [they] just won't."

Source: The Verge | Image via Valve

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I can't help but comment on some of the posts i've seen here. Pc gaming isn't dead by any means. Does anyone check the mmo market and how many active subscribers these games have? what about modding communities for games like Skyrim and world of tanks? Diablo 3 being a stellar success on most gaming websites? seriously pc gaming is just as strong as console gaming and i'm tired of the it's dead comment constantly thrown about.

Hate all you want Gabe, but 8 will be a significant part of your business and if you're any sort of professional business man, you'd have stfu a long time ago and got on with embarrassing it.

For a guy so bang on 'Openness' you sure are pretty closed minded.

We have NOT had a 20% reduction in PC sales. We've had a 20% reduction in the long term average GROWTH rate of PC sales. This guy runs a business and doesn't understand the difference? Investors beware.

"Catastrophe" may be a somewhat harsh judgement of Windows-8. However, Windows-8 is hardly the overwhelming success that Microsoft would like to have you believe. It may be very well suited for touch-centric tablets. But, for the full-size laptops and desktops focused on keyboards and mice, Windows-7 is much better suited. The real pity/tragedy is the Microsoft did not give installers the choice as to which UI they wanted. Deciding that "one UI fits all" is the height of arrogance (bordering on stupidity), and deserves to be soundly punished in the marketplace.

Crying for attention?
I didn't even know who Gabe was until neowin made him a hero last year with his comments on Windows 8. Fact is novice users find Windows 8 easier to use than Windows 7 based on my experiences. Surely most of us don't like the way it changed since it significantly changed the way we work but it isn't unusable. Having said that there is room for improvement and hopefully 8.1 will fix most of those issues. I am not in love with the start screen but I like:
How fast my PC boots and reboots
How fast the OS feels overall
Hyper-V 3.0 integration is awesome
Streaming my videos to the Xbox in the living room with minimal effort in comparison to anything else
Xbox music since Spotify has major issues under Windows 8 and refuse to release a Windows Phone 8 app as well
Xbox video since I already use it on the Xbox
The nice apps I can have which I wouldn't get on windows if it wasn't 8.

So yes Windows 8 has put my powerful hardware in use and allows me to use it as a hybrid workstation/entertainment unit.

As far as concerning Steam, I have so many titles under that brand which wont work properly on my setup even under Windows 7 so the Windows 8 store is a blessing in disguise for consumers as I can avoid your Ask toolbars and Google toolbars and all that crap.

Well I hope he gets to personally man the support lines when his steam box launches and there are problems.

Now just open a terminal and type: xxdklQ;SGRH'T

OK whut?

Gabe is a strange kind of broken. His sadness comes from his inability to use DX or new windows features introduced after he left the company.
I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't rolling in cash.

Hey, it's better than having to deal with all the support calls about how Windows crashed or caught a virus.

Since hey, we're going by outdated clichés right? And everyone knows all Windows is useful for is BSODs and Viruses.

deadonthefloor said,

Sorry bud, I use linux daily, and there are still times when you need your console.

Sorry bud, I use Windows daily, and there are still times when your machine will crash and get viruses.

I.E. When you're doing it wrong.

That guy sounds a little out of touch with reality. Maybe instead of bitching and moaning, he ought to concentrate on better mobile experience. Yeah PC sales have been dropping before Win 8 came out and Win 8 will make them drop even more because people want tablets and mobile devices. Those typically don't have the horsepower to run many Steam games so stop your complaining and write new games for the devices people want. Or is he going to go after the people next and tell them they're stupid for buying tablets and such and not over-priced gaming rigs whose graphics cards sometimes cost more than a decent tablet...

When I started using it I was like "oh my god..." I find [Windows 8] unusable

People are missing the important thing here. He is not saying he JUST doesn't like it, he is and has been saying he finds it confusing and unusable.

This is a person that is purported to be a game "designer" and "programmer", yet Windows 8 is too confounding for his mind.

This would be like hiring a car mechanic that got all confused by the headlight dimmer on the turn signal arm instead of a button on the floor like cars had in the 70s. Would you really still trust him to work on your car?

Really?

If Steam could natively show and run its apps on the Windows 8 menu it as tiles it would be a giant win. Personally I don't need the bloat that Steam is turning into. I use it to buy and play games. A simple tile would do enough for me.

Im fully aware of 3rd party products. Valve need to embrace Windows 8 cause this tiled menu will not disappear.

I like Steam and I really like Windows 8 but it seem that Gabe has really lost touch with reality and have to wonder if he has even used Windows for more than 2 seconds. But there is more than enough Windows 8 hate to go around I just do not understand it. From the install of the Release Preview I have liked it and found the UI to be faster to navigate and much easier but I guess that is just me.

This site is filled with jackasses - attacking a man for telling his opinion! He was ASKED about Windows 8 in an interview, he respond and silly news sites translates it as he attacking Windows 8 to get attention or whatever. We already knew what his opinion was from earlier. So, what's the point of this article?

Journalists these days...

Tpiom said,
This site is filled with jackasses - attacking a man for telling his opinion! He was ASKED about Windows 8 in an interview, he respond and silly news sites translates it as he attacking Windows 8 to get attention or whatever. We already knew what his opinion was from earlier. So, what's the point of this article?

Journalists these days...

That's exactly the point, we already know about his opinion. We've seen him talk about it each month at least 3 times a week, enough is enough already he should let it go now.

He's not the one posting this though. If someone keeps asking you your opinion on something and you tell them then they post it all over the web are you the one who should let it go?

So let me get this right:

Instead of helping to push Windows 8 - the latest OS that fully supports your client - by making an official app/game launcher or something of the sort, Gabe prefers to moan and cry about it?

One should be careful of what one says:

"If you do something that is cool, that's actually worth people's time, then they'll adopt it," Newell told The Verge. "If you do something that's not cool and sucks, you can spend as many marketing dollars as you want, [they] just won't."
How's that cliché go?
Something about sugar in what you say and salt in what you hear?

I hear salt.

I don't see how 7% of their users in just over 2 months is a "giant sadness." He's just giantly sad that he was wrong.

I think "Gabe" should attach his steam box to a treadmill.
Here's the thing, what really holds win8, which if you add it up its not being held up, is crappy hardware. I mean where are all the laptops that the screen detaches to be used as a tablet and is 1080p? There is none but as soon as that comes along I'll buy it. Just imagine if the hardware was there? I'm talking multiple tablets with hi fez and laptops with the same? Win8 has been the weakest OS launch ever and it is still matching win7 sales at the same time. By summer you will see win8 dominate multiple spaces of hardware, so like it or not, kiss that stupid start button goodbye.

I think one of the big reasons why Windows 8 has had a slow adoption is not that it is bad but that Windows 7 is good. I have upgraded my main computers but on many I only use on and off I cant be bothered because Windows 7 is more than enough to keep me happy. On most versions of Windows before Windows 8 there was huge gains in upgrading.
Now on the computers I have upgraded I love Windows 8. Sure, some things have moved around and changed but it does what it should, feels very stable, and while I cant say for sure my productivity has increased it definitely hasn't decreased.

p1p3 said,
I think one of the big reasons why Windows 8 has had a slow adoption is not that it is bad but that Windows 7 is good. I have upgraded my main computers but on many I only use on and off I cant be bothered because Windows 7 is more than enough to keep me happy. On most versions of Windows before Windows 8 there was huge gains in upgrading.
Now on the computers I have upgraded I love Windows 8. Sure, some things have moved around and changed but it does what it should, feels very stable, and while I cant say for sure my productivity has increased it definitely hasn't decreased.

Under the hood more changed then the step from Vista to Windows 7.
Compare Windows 7-8 upgrade entirely to Vista-7 upgrade, Windows 7 was just a Windows Vista service pack.

I know all about the low level changes but that doesn't change the fact that I will not upgrade machines I only use a couple of days a week just for the heck of it. Those machines will have to wait until they need a fresh install or major hardware upgrade. Its not wort the time to spend half a day for all the installation and configuration.
On a new computer however Windows 8 is the only way to go and I think that is what we are seeing in the sales number, people are not upgrading they are waiting until they get a new computer. Add to that the slowdown in computer evolution over the last decade where today a three year old computer is still very usable and even a five year old one can handle most tasks you throw at it adaptation of Windows 8 is slower than the adaptation of Windows 7.

Seriously? Did Newell just blame Windows 8 for the 20% decline in his berloved PC market? Even the most hateful Windows 8 hater has to admit there are other forces at work there as well.

While the PC market has declined the smartphone and tablet markets have seem massive gains. In some parts of the world the smartphone is the primary computer of a (poor) household. Many users find that tablets do 99% of their computer needs and its much cheaper and portable. It's clear that there is demand for touch and mobility, traditional PCs cant meet this demand.

Windows 8 has only been out for 2 months, yet Newell blames it for the decline that we've been seeing for years! Naturally Windows 8, with its focus on touch and mobility, won't save the traditional PC market. It's a new player on the tabet-PC market and right now consumers havent recognized its value proposition. If Windows 8 is to grow faster in the future then its because consumers picked it up for tablets not PCs.

Newell should be happy that the OS used by the fast majority of his customers is now also competing in the tablet-space. This is where mainstream consumers are moving towards and mainstream games are a big part of Steam.

The desktop PC has been around so long that it's very difficult for people to imagine it being just a stepping stone to the next era of personal computing.

It's worth remembering that, fifty years ago, technological visionaries saw the potential for 'personal' computers that would be all about augmenting the human experience. Sitting at a desk with a keyboard and mouse is not a requirement for that vision.

It's somewhat of a paradox that those styling themselves technology enthusiasts are the most vocally opposed to leaving today's technology behind.

I still think most work is going to be done with a mouse and keyboard, but some work is better with pen input, and passive reading is better done with touch. I like Microsoft's approach because it allows all-of-the-above solutions on one device.

brianshapiro said,
I still think most work is going to be done with a mouse and keyboard, but some work is better with pen input, and passive reading is better done with touch. I like Microsoft's approach because it allows all-of-the-above solutions on one device.

Work, yes. But just work. That's what it all comes down to--how important is this type of work going to be to personal computing in the future? Microcomputers evolved around the office. They are what they are because of word processing, spreadsheets, database management, graphic design, modeling, and the same work station form factor that's been the standard for more than 30 years.

But how important is that, really, to the average working consumer? The person who doesn't take classes anymore, and who does their typing on the clock, rather than at home? How important is that when the personal computing experience is about augmenting lifestyles rather than being an office integration?

Do we need kb+m for doing our taxes? Paying bills? Organizing recipes? Multimedia? Travel planning? At what point does the need for a workstation become trivial enough that you'd only need one laptop per household, if that? At what point does it become so trivial that a dock solution really is all anyone needs?

These questions are all very hard to answer, but answers exist. 'Work' dominating the paradigms of personal computing is characteristic of the birth of the information age, but there's no real reason why it can't be anything more than just a passing phase.

Joshie said,

Do we need kb+m for doing our taxes? Paying bills? Organizing recipes? Multimedia? Travel planning? At what point does the need for a workstation become trivial enough that you'd only need one laptop per household, if that? At what point does it become so trivial that a dock solution really is all anyone needs?

Dock solution is fine, that's what Microsoft is working on, although they still see room for an environment suited to docking which is why they haven't gotten rid of the desktop. Pen input is also an important part of the future, something Microsoft is taking seriously.

But its not just office work and school work, a lot of people will work out of the house, a lot of people have hobbies, side work, side projects, blogging, etc. When people say that all people do aside from their job is mundane stuff like recipes, travel planning, taxes, I think that's looking at it a bit narrowly. The separation of work time from home time is artificial.

JHBrown said,
I'm with Gabe! First OS that's getting skipped by us.

Wow, and people said this about Windows 3.1 (literally), Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7.

So you think this is new? Do you notice how many of the versions of Windows listed or the ones that have 'EVER' been sold by Microsoft were deemed a failure?

Even as 'horrible' as WinME was by trying to strap too much functionality on a fragile monolithic kernel (*winks at Linux*), it was not deemed a commercial failure, it sold well. And it truly was slower than Win98 and had core OS level stability issues with restore and other functionality that the kernel and FS could not handle.

Good luck with sticking to your ignorance, and I hope you take pride in being dumber than others.

thenetavenger said,

Good luck with sticking to your ignorance, and I hope you take pride in being dumber than others.

Except at no point did he ever claim it was a new thing, he was simply stating his opinion.

Do opinions make you mad?

I honestly don't care what he thinks. Or any other developer, for that matter.

Every new OS has been dissed at launch. With 7 not as much...mainly because it pretty much just an improved Vista, there wasn't anything incredibly different about it.

Gabe hasn't been a fan of MS since Vista, iirc.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't care for Metro either. I like the style of the desktop. I thought that needed more supplementary features. I wish the ribbon was customizable. I'd like to see a lot of these third party apps with certain features get picked up and put into Windows. I'd like to see a little more separation of Desktop and Metro. QtTabBar, I like a lot. For some reason, I seem to use the double click back option all the time. Or AllSnap, and being able to snap windows right next to each other and choose the distance between each window. Or being able to properly case several files at once like several file renaming programs do. I guess what I'm saying is I would like something like this.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/...8363868898_074e50270c_h.jpg


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What do you think is good? I use this and think it is immensely satisfying. I've used Metro and it seems like their trying to stifle utility as opposed to encouraging it.

Maybe Gabe is just mad that something got past version 2. Stop complaining and finish Half Life. We get it, you don't like windows 8 because you must have a gimped version that only allows store apps to run or something.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/

I am so sick and tired people saying that Windows 8 is a failure when its only been out for like 3 months. Only 10% of windows users had moved to WinXP over the course of a year when it was released.

This has happened each and every time MS has released a new OS. I remember back in college my professor telling me he was never going to move from Win 3.11 to windows 95..

Ludites...

Lol, did a Neowin article just quote Gabe Newell at saying "I was like, oh my god"?

I can't read that with out hearing clueless.

Newell apologists wont be able to answer that. Because he personally does not like windows anymore, so all effort is in putting the main focus to linux and screw any fast development of upcoming games.

dxgs said,
Newell apologists wont be able to answer that. Because he personally does not like windows anymore, so all effort is in putting the main focus to linux and screw any fast development of upcoming games.

Hi there, I can answer that easily.

People that work on hardware are not the people that work on game development (Do you think putting electrical engineers on game development is a good idea?), nor are the people that work on the Linux client. (Both were fresh hires)

So, what's your excuse now?

Snake89 said,
I'm sure Valve is waiting until the new source engine is done first.

Maybe so. Doesn't really matter though. I've already lost faith in Valve. Between the dumbing-down of Portal 2 for controllers and now Valve's apparent plans to dumb down PC gaming to the level of consoles, I'm not even sure the next Half-Life will even be worthy of the name. Oh, I'm sure I'll end up buying it and playing it (when it's finally released...in 2018), just like every other Half-Life fan, and I'll probably even enjoy it for what it is, but I very much doubt it'll be the same as the previous games in the series. It'll probably be littered with dumbed-down physics puzzles, auto-aiming controls, only be able to carry 2 weapons at a time, and filled with waypoint markers, interaction hints, etc...basically everything it needs to work well for casual gamers playing it from their couches on their Steam Boxes...

Edited by JonathanMarston, Jan 9 2013, 5:27am :

How does the convenience of getting at your library in multiple locations make any difference to the quality of the games. That is the developers choice, and if they're the kind of people to make such concessions for living-room support, they probably already make multi-platform games anyway.

Now, give me more Half Life valve (You don't have to label it '3' if you don't want to, I know the idea of a trilogy is a bit intense)

We could have had Half-Life 3 years ago if they hadn't decided to go with that Episode X nonsense. The excuse being it would allow them to put out new episodes much faster than a whole new game. So much for that idea.

Snake89 said,
I'm sure Valve is waiting until the new source engine is done first.

Won't that require the committee that is OpenGL to be done first?

Gabe criticizes Windows 8 for not being a true evolution of the desktop PC experience, then abandons the desktop PC form factor altogether for a set-top box.

Ladies and gentleman, Gabe.

Luc2k said,
How exactly is expanding into another demographic abandoning the original one?

He clearly thinks the desktop PC is dying. This is phase one of a massive push to offload Steam to a different form factor.

Also, demographic does not mean what you think it means.

Joshie said,

He clearly thinks the desktop PC is dying. This is phase one of a massive push to offload Steam to a different form factor.

Also, demographic does not mean what you think it means.

I guess I don't see him having that position as clearly as you do. To me it looks like he's blaming W8 for not pushing more PC sales. Why would he care if he's taking Steam in another direction.

What's the word I should have used? market?

You dont see that? Really? Read all his other interviews and quotes where is always whining about it and claiming that he will be moving his focus to linux and focus more attention to the linux platform, even try to make games work on linux, because he does not like windows 8 and its app store, not because he is expanding to linux to spread availability out of good heart so linux users can game.

You know Linux and Windows are not mutually exclusive right? Just because he doesn't like W8 doesn't mean Steam will not support it. There's money to be made.

Joshie said,

He clearly thinks the desktop PC is dying. This is phase one of a massive push to offload Steam to a different form factor.

Also, demographic does not mean what you think it means.

Seriously, we get it. You're kneejerking because Gabe doesn't like your beloved OS, but making retarded claims like this to "get back at him" only makes you look retarded. It doesn't hurt Gabe.

Athernar said,

Seriously, we get it. You're kneejerking because Gabe doesn't like your beloved OS, but making retarded claims like this to "get back at him" only makes you look retarded. It doesn't hurt Gabe.


That's so cute! You want me to be wrong about something so bad that you'll cram an irrelevant personal attack onto a totally relevant observation based on the *actual facts* of Valve's behavior over the last 12 months.

Joshie said,

That's so cute! You want me to be wrong about something so bad that you'll cram an irrelevant personal attack onto a totally relevant observation based on the *actual facts* of Valve's behavior over the last 12 months.

Irrelevant? No I think it's quite relevant actually.

The very notion that Valve are moving to abandon the desktop PC is quite simply, retarded. It's an "observation" so absolutely idiotic, that the simple existence of Dota 2 alone blows it out of the water.

Are you really that much of a fanboy that you'll resort to making nonsensical claims just to try and get back at the President of a software company for not liking Windows 8?

But no, sure, obviously the International 2013 is going to be played on controllers because Valve hates the PC (Actually just one guy disliking 8) now!!1111 Complex e-Sports on controllers are the future man.

Athernar said,

Irrelevant? No I think it's quite relevant actually.

The very notion that Valve are moving to abandon the desktop PC is quite simply, retarded. It's an "observation" so absolutely idiotic, that the simple existence of Dota 2 alone blows it out of the water.

Are you really that much of a fanboy that you'll resort to making nonsensical claims just to try and get back at the President of a software company for not liking Windows 8?

But no, sure, obviously the International 2013 is going to be played on controllers because Valve hates the PC (Actually just one guy disliking 8) now!!1111 Complex e-Sports on controllers are the future man.


Your entire perspective is dominated by your own opinion of the best way to game. It's clear that you consider yourself a gamer, while I do not myself. I don't even consider myself a Windows 8 fanboy, though people like you think anyone who doesn't pan the OS with prejudice is sucking at the Ballmer teat.

I'm taking a purely observational approach, and I'm observing facts, and I'd be happy to entertain any attempts on your part to actually address them point-by-point, rather than ad hominem-by-ad hominem.

Point - Gabe thinks Microsoft is pushing Windows in a direction that abandons core PC gaming culture.

Point - Valve feels very strongly about supporting Linux, and Gabe has discussed Linux as an alternate "direction" in the event that Windows falls into irrelevance.

Point - Valve put a lot of hype into Big Picture, an '10-foot' interface designed entirely around controller input, with mediocre support for mice and absolutely no support for touch whatsoever.

Point - Valve's freshman hardware effort is building out their ecosystem into 'dumb' screens connected to a Linux home server.

Point - If Windows falls into irrelevance, people are ~20x more likely to switch to Mac OS than any distribution of Linux for their desktop.

My conclusion that you so vehementally disagree with for no reason other than how you want the world to be: A push toward Linux when mainstream consumers will never adopt it on the desktop is a sign of a vision of bringing PC gaming to a new paradigm that is neither desktop nor console, but will clearly NOT focus on keyboard+mouse input.

While it might be tempting to tell yourself that the project is still in development and could totally still be everything you, personally, want it to be, all signs are NOT pointing in your direction in this case, and the ONLY evidence you seem able to come up with is the stuff Valve was doing over a year ago, not what they're doing today.

Joshie said,
<snip>

Ah, okay. I get it, you're not only a Windows 8 fanboy, but you're completely ignorant too.

It's really quite easy to illustrate that you're wrong by looking at Valve's investment into e-Sports, a growing scene/segment that is by very nature tied to the desktop PC and keyboard/mouse.

In the e-Sports realm, Valve have invested into two titles, Dota 2 and CS:GO. Of the former, Valve has now hosted two tournaments (The International) with a $1.6m prize pool, with the third set for this September. Additionally, Dota 2 is still in active development, with tutorial features and heroes remaining to be ported from DotA.

So no, your "observational logic" is half-baked and driven by a negative bias. You make a nonsensical leap that diversification means departure, and treat opinion as fact when it come to Linux. Do I also need to remind you what the dominant Phone OS is based on?

As I said, your reasoning is driven by an urge to try and "get back" at Gabe for not sharing your opinion regarding Windows 8. Simple as that.

Athernar said,

Ah, okay. I get it, you're not only a Windows 8 fanboy, but you're completely ignorant too.

It's really quite easy to illustrate that you're wrong by looking at Valve's investment into e-Sports, a growing scene/segment that is by very nature tied to the desktop PC and keyboard/mouse.

In the e-Sports realm, Valve have invested into two titles, Dota 2 and CS:GO. Of the former, Valve has now hosted two tournaments (The International) with a $1.6m prize pool, with the third set for this September. Additionally, Dota 2 is still in active development, with tutorial features and heroes remaining to be ported from DotA.

So no, your "observational logic" is half-baked and driven by a negative bias. You make a nonsensical leap that diversification means departure, and treat opinion as fact when it come to Linux. Do I also need to remind you what the dominant Phone OS is based on?

As I said, your reasoning is driven by an urge to try and "get back" at Gabe for not sharing your opinion regarding Windows 8. Simple as that.


What makes taking you seriously so difficult is how angry you sound. You aren't expressing a thought so much as angrily pumping your fist.

Just for funzies:

A) I attended The International 2. The cool thing about living in Seattle is that going to PAX and its extensions is a trivial thing. Funny thing about games like DOTA - if you've never played it before, it is 100% unwatchable. It's right up there with Starcraft in that regard. Basketball would make more sense to an alien traveller than DOTA, and an esport that only appeals to people who also play the game themselves isn't going to go far.

The LoL tournament was no better, though the Omegathon was incredibly accessible--which is amusing, since that includes console games.

B) You seem to make the baseless assumption that investing in eSports means Valve is committed to the desktop PC. I honestly have no idea why you think the two require each other.

Edited by Joshie, Jan 9 2013, 7:17pm :

Joshie said,
Just for funzies:

A) I attended The International 2. The cool thing about living in Seattle is that going to PAX and its extensions is a trivial thing. Funny thing about games like DOTA - if you've never played it before, it is 100% unwatchable. It's right up there with Starcraft in that regard. Basketball would make more sense to an alien traveller than DOTA, and an esport that only appeals to people who also play the game themselves isn't going to go far.

The LoL tournament was no better, though the Omegathon was incredibly accessible--which is amusing, since that includes console games.

B) You seem to make the baseless assumption that investing in eSports means Valve is committed to the desktop PC. I honestly have no idea what you think the two require each other.

More delicious ignorance, so much so that even though I don't play StarCraft I am still aware that the game has a huge spectator-only scene, so you're flat out wrong there.

I'm not sure what's more amusing, the fact you actually believe your own insane theory about Valve abandoning the PC, or that you think investing in Dota 2/CS:GO as e-Sports - titles that are heavily tied to that aforementioned PC, is baseless. Hell, Dota 2 doesn't even need to be played as an e-Sport to not be heavily tied the PC.

But it's clear at this point not only do you not have the foggiest about Valve, but you clearly know nothing of the nature of e-Sports.

As to me being angry? I'm not the one that dreams up wild theories, or consistently posts on the comments to defend Windows 8. Little bit of projection on your part methinks.

The hate toward Gabe Newell because of his disdain of Windows 8 and the store is getting ridiculous.

Microsoft again is late to the party and i can perfectly see why he is angry about the store and the competition from the maker of the os his company has been supporting for ages.

LaP said,
The hate toward Gabe Newell because of his disdain of Windows 8 and the store is getting ridiculous.

Microsoft again is late to the party and i can perfectly see why he is angry about the store and the competition from the maker of the os his company has been supporting for ages.


My disdain for Gabe is based entirely on the hypocrisy of his attitude. He pleads with the reader as if this great injustice has befallen the world of computing, and then pimps a product that's just another HTPC with a Wii U (multi-screen) twist. It's a direction all of console gaming has been hurtling toward, and what's more, consoles will do it with much greater usability (mainstream consumers will NOT accept a device that requires tinkering and hackery to do what an Xbox was doing six years ago).

Yet, somehow, despite being nothing original or even compelling, there's this inexplicable boner half the Internet has for this guy. Gabe worship is like Steve Jobs fanaticism times a hundred.

There are *literally* Gabe porn photoshop collections. Any criticism of Gabe on a site like Reddit is downvoted into oblivion with extreme prejudice. A hint of a nonexistent Valve product is met with a dozen "Take my money" GIFs. The Big Picture beta was a miserable joke of a skin with terrible input support and people were drooling over it when they weren't preaching why the crappy graphics made sense.

Complaints about Valve have no forum. There's no voice for the people rage quitting every time they make the mistake of wanting to log into Steam from a web browser after clearing their cookies ("Hi! It looks like you're in a good mood. We're going to make you earn the right to log in."). There's nobody on a soap box demanding to know why Steam alone, of all modern digital ecosystems, only allows one device at a time (another reason why this multi-screen Steambox dream is a bloody joke) to play games.

Valve love is omnipresent and incomprehensible. Half Life 3 will have more delays than Duke Nukem Forever, but each delay only ever adds more love--never doubt. The love makes zero sense, but there it is.

Nope, the windows store is for RT based apps, the mobile part of windows, its not for x86 applications. Steam is x86 and so are all the games available on it, unless steam starts selling angry bird, then I do not see a competition, since call of duty and any other major game cannot be controlled by microsoft, or sold through the windows store, since they can only be published and posted as a link, but not sold through it.

LaP said,
The hate toward Gabe Newell because of his disdain of Windows 8 and the store is getting ridiculous.

Microsoft again is late to the party and i can perfectly see why he is angry about the store and the competition from the maker of the os his company has been supporting for ages.

It'd be one thing if MS locked the desktop down across x86 and x64 devices, but they didn't. So he has no leg to stand on.

Truth be told, he hates competition. If anything, MS has become ever more open with W8: desktop still exists for Steam, Blizzard, and other distribution services. And the Store exists for the casual (and even some serious) gamers. I think Gabe needs to get his head out of his ass.

So... because of Gabe's jealousy and hubris, Steam Box buyers get a device that leverages Steam's brand recognition but can't actually run the games in its catalogue unless they shell out extra for a copy of Windows that should have been pre-installed in the first place.

Snake89 said,
putting linux on the steambox helps keep the cost down, so it's a good thing.

The Steambox isn't going to run Linux, unless you think Valve is going to release a system that 90% of Steam's library won't run on.

Lord Method Man said,

The Steambox isn't going to run Linux, unless you think Valve is going to release a system that 90% of Steam's library won't run on.

It's funny because they just announced it will run Linux by default.

If they could get something like nvidia's stream technology in it, where I could use my desktops horsepower & have it stream it to my TV with controller support, I'd snap it up in an instant.

Otherwise, I'll be looking to see if the price is low enough to justify the reduced catalog. Given the choice between a console with a linked library with my PC & a completely separate closed-off hell (Hi sony, microsoft) I'd choose the one with 200+ games in it already!

ingramator said,

Yeah exactly which pretty much means DOA.

Yeah I know, just like how netbooks originally shipped with Linux to keep them dirt-cheap, they were a complete flop until they switched to Windows.

It's only because he's the Big Cheese over at Valve that we pay attention at all. If this was just an anonymous comment online, we'd dismiss it as another angry PC user that dislikes Windows 8- to be honest, his rant brings nothing new to the table other than that he represents Valve, the Linux-gaming-fans anyhow.

There ... there ... Newell just spoke the true about Steam Box ...

Newell said,
If you do something that is cool, that's actually worth people's time, then they'll adopt it. If you do something that's not cool and sucks, you can spend as many marketing dollars as you want, [they] just won't.

Exactly. He's just one person that doesn't like Windows 8. That doesn't necessarily mean Windows 8 is the worst operating system made by Microsoft. I personally don't like it but I don't feel the need to express that. I'm fine with simply sticking to Windows 7 for now.

I don't know what you're talking about. Are you forgetting about games like Portal 2, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and Dota 2 (which is currently in beta)? Also, Portal is very much a Valve game just like Half-Life 2 or Counter-Strike: Source.

Gabe is absolutely right. Microsoft was such a big monopoly because of an ecosystem every company can hold a place inside. But now, they want to control everything via their own store. This won't work.

No. Apple have a Mac Store and Ubuntu has the Software Centre he's mad because he feels threatened that Windows 8 Store actually has potential plus he thinks he's being cool jumping on the bandwagon of Windows 8 sucks.

There is no need for a bandwagon, Windows 8 already sucks.

Gabe is right, because software and hardware companies's primary focus was Windows platform. Because it's a win-win. And now let's have a look at Microsoft's strategy. Their own hardware, their own software, their own store and you expect other companies to watch all their market gone lost. Of course they will resist.

I think someone at Redmond has gone mad.

Thingol said,
There is no need for a bandwagon, Windows 8 already sucks.

Gabe is right, because software and hardware companies's primary focus was Windows platform. Because it's a win-win. And now let's have a look at Microsoft's strategy. Their own hardware, their own software, their own store and you expect other companies to watch all their market gone lost. Of course they will resist.

I think someone at Redmond has gone mad.

Their own hardware? Yep because they new if they left manufacturers to their own devices the same thing would happen with Android tablets ie not much, cruddy hardware and no innovation. Their own software? I honestly don't see a problem with that unless you want an OS with literally nothing on it but a couple of drivers. Their own store? I fail to see the problem. It's focus is for metro apps not desktop apps... Why can't the two co-exist? They do on MacOSX and pretty much every version of Linux has its own apps stores... Software Centre, APT, Synaptics etc.. I don't see what the big problem is. He is literally just being a moron. I don't see him criticise Android for having a market place virtually all controlled by Google, iOS for having an EXCLUSIVE APP STORE, PS3 -exclusive, Xbox- exclusive, wii -exclusive. Linux and Windows 8 are in the same boat in respect to being able to install programs, it's just a lot easier to do it on Windows without any store.

Thingol said,
There is no need for a bandwagon, Windows 8 already sucks.

Gabe is right, because software and hardware companies's primary focus was Windows platform. Because it's a win-win. And now let's have a look at Microsoft's strategy. Their own hardware, their own software, their own store and you expect other companies to watch all their market gone lost. Of course they will resist.

I think someone at Redmond has gone mad.

Their own hardware - MS has been creating accessories for Windows for over a decade.
Their own software - which is available across all kinds of chipsets: ARM, x86, x64
Their own Store - developers get 70% up to $20k, then they get 80%. It's the best model out there in terms of sheer profit over time.

...if these manufacturers aren't doing what's necessary: making quality hardware, then they should suffer for putting out lackluster products.

I totally with him about the giant sadness as I have the same feeling. I have the giant sadness because I spent $40 of my hard earned dollars on buying this piece of junk, only to uninstall it and go back to what really works well, Windows 7.

He hates Microsoft in general now even after the fact he worked there for over 10 years and that is pretty much the only reason he got to where he is now. The only way you can be cool in his eyes is to run OpenSUSE a truly innovative platform which doesn't make you rage quit computing. It's Linux and I assure you it really is a great experience for the average Joe!

ingramator said,
He hates Microsoft in general now even after the fact he worked there for over 10 years and that is pretty much the only reason he got to where he is now. The only way you can be cool in his eyes is to run OpenSUSE a truly innovative platform which doesn't make you rage quit computing. It's Linux and I assure you it really is a great experience for the average Joe!

OpenSuSe? Its only supported officially for Ubuntu

It's sad when the head of a good company is a damned blind fanatic. I wonder for how long will he keep crying a river about windows 8. He is also heavily dumb to not realize that the windows store is not even for x86 applications, but only for RT. All windows store apps for windows 8 suck ass compared to x86, and they are all either fullscreen or half screen. I wonder how, seriously, how an RT/mobile based store is a thread to an x86 gaming platform, when x86 apps are not even sold through the store, instead they are only published.

Man... when people want to b*tch about something, they really do in the most blindfolded way possible, even without knowing. Now people, we have learned you dont have to be that smart to be the head of a company.

Are you saying that because you love Windows 8 and can't even begin to understand why someone would hate it? If your answer is yes, then believe it or not but not everyone will like what you like.

Also, the fact that he's complaining about an operating system like Windows 8 doesn't give us any insight into his level of intelligence. I think anyone with common sense knows that you can't be "stupid" and have an estimated net worth of $1.5 billion.

No, see, I'm not saying that. I do not like windows 8 either that much. Yet, I do not cry about it, or let my emotions, specially for business development, cloud my judgement. Please, tell me the basis of so much hate and the need to even say that steam's main focus will now be on linux because windows 8 "sucks". Thats basically what he has said in every damned article he has been quoted at. Tell me exactly how a personal hatred of windows 8 should even be in a business development plan, even when wrong, look at the numbers. The fact that he has mentioned so many times that steam will start to move focus to linux, even when windows 8 even beats linux users is already pretty damn dumb. If you can, honestly, tell me thats ok, I seriously recommend you take advanced business classes in college, thats the only solution to comprehend why I'm criticizing his baseless whining about windows 8 and his threats that he will be moving to linux due to windows 8.

I would understand his move to linux because he likes it, its easier to modify to his liking for the platform, etc etc, change the kernel, tweak the code, make it work like god with the steam platform. But moving because he hates windows 8 for whatever reason there is, even when there are more windows 8 users currently and will be more in the future, is completely out of sense. There will be more money made out of windows 8 right now and in the future than there will be on linux users.

Its not the fact that he is complaining, is that he is developing a business based on pure emotions. If you ask any analyst where there is a higher change of making money, that will be windows. Even mac os has more chance than linux assuming that apple keeps their current track.

I don't care about his net worth, you know what would be sad to see? His net worth going down simply because he hates windows 8 at the personal level. The fact that he is focusing in a much smaller platform (taken from previous interviews where has said many times focus will now be on linux because of the windows store, yeah, windows store). Now whats the windows store? Its a store for RT apps, the RT platform, these funny apps that either cover the full screen or half of it or are sent to the background. Its not a store for x86 apps, like steam, since x86 applications are impossible to control by microsoft like they can with their own RT platform. By RT i dont mean ARM, i mean the whole new framework for developing these apps, because they are not standard x86, they are their own template of tablet/phone apps.

So yes, basically, saying that windows 8 sucks because of the windows store, which is in no way related to x86 or steam, saying that the focus will go to linux because of windows 8 and the store, and the fact there is more money to be made on windows and mac os than on linux, and blaming windows for being "sad" when numbers are already much ahead and increasing compared to linux, I would say, that he is making a very stupid emotionally blind and or biased decision, regardless of his net worth. Purely based on fanaticism and or pride. Because his main argument of the store is completely invalidated, since steam is not even developed under the RT framework, and the fact that it sucks in his own mind, is not even a reason to be whining like that about it and blinding himself from numbers that his own platform collects.

Microsoft is not closing down windows, the windows 8 RT platform is just an alternative to x86. Like java is an alternative to C, like .NET is also another alternative. Its just a platform to maintain their mobile market. It was never meant to supplant the whole basis of windows which is x86. There is no way you can approach the windows store to tell me its an act of microsoft to close the entire platform from third party development. Microsoft does that, kills C++, flash, java, any other language on windows and windows is gone, just like that. And I do not see where microsoft did that with windows 8. Blink of an eye and you are done with the start screen and back with a start menu. You can even think of the start screen as the app drawer of say, android or iOS, or mac OS launchpad.

Edited by dxgs, Jan 9 2013, 5:59am :

Anaron said,

I think anyone with common sense knows that you can't be "stupid" and have an estimated net worth of $1.5 billion.

This is one of the most ignorant things I have read for a while. Just because someone has a tonne of money by know means they are intelligent, able to respond to a situation, reason, communicate, learn and solve problems. By that reasoning, carlos slim is the smartest man in the world and the corrupt oil officials of the middle east are all so intelligent, honourable too.

dxgs said,
....snip.....

WinRT (the Windows Runtime) is meant to replace everything it's built on top of over time.
COM+, DCOM, Win32, etc.
All of these technologies had a place, but can and should be replaced by a more intelligent set of subsystems, enter WinRT.

It is only a matter of time. Today it exists as an alternative to native, win32 programming, but will one day replace it. You'll still use the languages, but the underlying frameworks and unneccessary complexity will die off.

ingramator said,

This is one of the most ignorant things I have read for a while. Just because someone has a tonne of money by know means they are intelligent, able to respond to a situation, reason, communicate, learn and solve problems. By that reasoning, carlos slim is the smartest man in the world and the corrupt oil officials of the middle east are all so intelligent, honourable too.

Don't twist my comment around so it's easier to criticize. I never said that having a lot of money makes you smart. I implied that most people that own a company and have an estimated net worth in the billions are not "stupid". The man you mentioned (Carlos Slim) studied civil engineering at University and taught algebra and linear programming. I wouldn't call a person like that "stupid". As for the corrupt oil officials of the Middle East as you put it, I can't comment on their level of stupidity.

dxgs said,
No, see, I'm not saying that. I do not like windows 8 either that much. Yet, I do not cry about it, or let my emotions, specially for business development, cloud my judgement. Please, tell me the basis of so much hate and the need to even say that steam's main focus will now be on linux because windows 8 "sucks". Thats basically what he has said in every damned article he has been quoted at. Tell me exactly how a personal hatred of windows 8 should even be in a business development plan, even when wrong, look at the numbers. The fact that he has mentioned so many times that steam will start to move focus to linux, even when windows 8 even beats linux users is already pretty damn dumb. If you can, honestly, tell me thats ok, I seriously recommend you take advanced business classes in college, thats the only solution to comprehend why I'm criticizing his baseless whining about windows 8 and his threats that he will be moving to linux due to windows 8.

I would understand his move to linux because he likes it, its easier to modify to his liking for the platform, etc etc, change the kernel, tweak the code, make it work like god with the steam platform. But moving because he hates windows 8 for whatever reason there is, even when there are more windows 8 users currently and will be more in the future, is completely out of sense. There will be more money made out of windows 8 right now and in the future than there will be on linux users.

Its not the fact that he is complaining, is that he is developing a business based on pure emotions. If you ask any analyst where there is a higher change of making money, that will be windows. Even mac os has more chance than linux assuming that apple keeps their current track.

I don't care about his net worth, you know what would be sad to see? His net worth going down simply because he hates windows 8 at the personal level. The fact that he is focusing in a much smaller platform (taken from previous interviews where has said many times focus will now be on linux because of the windows store, yeah, windows store). Now whats the windows store? Its a store for RT apps, the RT platform, these funny apps that either cover the full screen or half of it or are sent to the background. Its not a store for x86 apps, like steam, since x86 applications are impossible to control by microsoft like they can with their own RT platform. By RT i dont mean ARM, i mean the whole new framework for developing these apps, because they are not standard x86, they are their own template of tablet/phone apps.

So yes, basically, saying that windows 8 sucks because of the windows store, which is in no way related to x86 or steam, saying that the focus will go to linux because of windows 8 and the store, and the fact there is more money to be made on windows and mac os than on linux, and blaming windows for being "sad" when numbers are already much ahead and increasing compared to linux, I would say, that he is making a very stupid emotionally blind and or biased decision, regardless of his net worth. Purely based on fanaticism and or pride. Because his main argument of the store is completely invalidated, since steam is not even developed under the RT framework, and the fact that it sucks in his own mind, is not even a reason to be whining like that about it and blinding himself from numbers that his own platform collects.

Microsoft is not closing down windows, the windows 8 RT platform is just an alternative to x86. Like java is an alternative to C, like .NET is also another alternative. Its just a platform to maintain their mobile market. It was never meant to supplant the whole basis of windows which is x86. There is no way you can approach the windows store to tell me its an act of microsoft to close the entire platform from third party development. Microsoft does that, kills C++, flash, java, any other language on windows and windows is gone, just like that. And I do not see where microsoft did that with windows 8. Blink of an eye and you are done with the start screen and back with a start menu. You can even think of the start screen as the app drawer of say, android or iOS, or mac OS launchpad.

Firstly, it's his business. He's the CEO of Valve so what he says carries a lot of weight.

Secondly, I don't think his hatred for Windows 8 is based purely on emotions. I think he disagrees with it on a fundamental level. It's more of a principle thing than it is an emotional one.

Thirdly, what's wrong with wanting to support Linux? It's a great operating system and it looks like Gabe Newell is using this as an opportunity to uplift it for the purpose of gaming. It's free, accessible, and it seems to be the default OS for Valve's so-called Steam Box.

Finally, if you're willing to accept his decision to hate Windows 8 and like Linux because of its capabilities... then it seems to me that what he's doing is irrelevant to you. And that all you care about is his motives. I personally don't agree with his excessive whining but it doesn't bother me. I don't lose any sleep over it but I'm keeping in eye on the situation. I'm genuinely interested to see what Valve's next move is. If it's Linux, then I might support them. If it's Windows 8, then I still might support them.

By the way, I think his issue lies with how Windows 8 changes the way you use an operating system as opposed to it being much different than Windows 7 on an architectural level. As you said, Windows 8 and Windows 7 are very much alike. The only major difference is the Start Screen and lack of a start button.

Anaron said,
Firstly, it's his business. He's the CEO of Valve so what he says carries a lot of weight.

Secondly, I don't think his hatred for Windows 8 is based purely on emotions. I think he disagrees with it on a fundamental level. It's more of a principle thing than it is an emotional one.

Thirdly, what's wrong with wanting to support Linux? It's a great operating system and it looks like Gabe Newell is using this as an opportunity to uplift it for the purpose of gaming. It's free, accessible, and it seems to be the default OS for Valve's so-called Steam Box.

Finally, if you're willing to accept his decision to hate Windows 8 and like Linux because of its capabilities... then it seems to me that what he's doing is irrelevant to you. And that all you care about is his motives. I personally don't agree with his excessive whining but it doesn't bother me. I don't lose any sleep over it but I'm keeping in eye on the situation. I'm genuinely interested to see what Valve's next move is. If it's Linux, then I might support them. If it's Windows 8, then I still might support them.

By the way, I think his issue lies with how Windows 8 changes the way you use an operating system as opposed to it being much different than Windows 7 on an architectural level. As you said, Windows 8 and Windows 7 are very much alike. The only major difference is the Start Screen and lack of a start button.


dxgs said
cropped.

Haha, add in that the Unreal Engine is already ported to WinRT and making it basically able to easily port any other available Unreal engine game to it (and thats ALLOT of games) and with the interoperability between Windows 8, Windows RT, Xbox and Windows Phone... could make it a very, very interesting platform for Valve to invest in. Yet they pick Linux....
If it has any proper reasoning behind it (really cannot think of any) please englighten me.
Because Windows 8 is indeed not like Windows 7 on the exterior, but also not on the interior.
It might seem that the only major change is metro and the modern store stuff. But its not. There is allot under the hood that has been improved, which Valve could take advantage from.

They will have unseen issues in the Linux world, they focus only on Ubuntu so far, even though its the largest userbase, its not the only Linux. Being proud of having a game perform better on OpenGL/Linux then its 10 year old competitor.
They will notice that if they want to get graphics on par with recent game releases, they will run into a performance wall.OpenGL doesnt even come close to DirectX11's capabilities and powers.
Add in that many Linux users are Linux users for the sole reason that ITS FREE
http://freepblog.files.wordpre...codic-cat-meme-its_free.jpg
And thats quite a large marketshare among Linux users, so how on earth is Valve expecting to earn money from it. Linux users don't like to be tracked (look at the uproar the amazone sh*t caused in the communitise) so no advertisement income.
There is a small future in there, I cannot find a logical reasoning for his focussed hatred towards Windows 8, and especially as a CEO of a large and well known company.
If he doesnt like it personally, fine. Let it know if you want it, but this dude has brought it up in pretty much every god freaking interview this guy has given.

I think Gabe needs to accept the changes and find something else to moan about, all the other haters did so why can't he, after all its here to stay and there is nothing he can do about that.

Newell has a point - Windows has thrived because it is a relatively open platform where one can code any application they want on it. With Microsoft moving towards the walled garden approach, this automatically shuts down storefronts like Steam.

Though, besides this point, I don't think Newell has been very definitive in terms of what else he finds troubling about Windows 8.

XX55XX said,
With Microsoft moving towards the walled garden approach, this automatically shuts down storefronts like Steam.

Really? Amazon's in-app Kindle store doesn't seem to have any problems with it.

XX55XX said,
Newell has a point - Windows has thrived because it is a relatively open platform where one can code any application they want on it. With Microsoft moving towards the walled garden approach, this automatically shuts down storefronts like Steam.

Though, besides this point, I don't think Newell has been very definitive in terms of what else he finds troubling about Windows 8.

So Steam can't coexist with the Windows Store?

no it can, he just doesnt want it to compete, because at the end of the day it means less money to keep his ass as big as it is.

XX55XX said,
Newell has a point - Windows has thrived because it is a relatively open platform where one can code any application they want on it. With Microsoft moving towards the walled garden approach, this automatically shuts down storefronts like Steam.

Though, besides this point, I don't think Newell has been very definitive in terms of what else he finds troubling about Windows 8.


You can still install apps without going through the Windows Store. Just like you can install apps on OSX without going through the App Store. And how you can also install apps on Ubuntu without going through the Software Center.

So I wouldn't call it a walled garden, as I consider a walled garden more like how iOS and Windows Phone does it (e.g. only install apps through the stores).

Lamp Post said,
I consider a walled garden more like how iOS and Windows Phone does it (e.g. only install apps through the stores).

Windows RT.
Windows 8 for DoD.
I am thankful for this.

He's not calling people morons. He's dislikes the product for various reasons and is making that point well.

But yet everyone on here evidently is rushing to call him a moron (and worse - like making jokes about his weight) but apparently that's OK?

For various reasons? The guy is an idiot. The only locked down platform is Windows RT. And that's because of battery life and performance reasons. Installing desktop apps would not only require those apps be recompiled for ARM (but also have 3rd party code support ARM as well) but it also means that we're talking about the battery and performance draining desktop apps.

Truth be told, Windows 8 can still run Steam without issue. He's blabbing out the mouth without any substance whatsoever.

This is coming from the guy who is rumored to be making a steam box with xi3?

Gee lets see it's not a console, its a PC. It runs PC games, so the specs required changes unlike consoles that have the same specs for 6-8 years. You start off with a base model that is rumored to cost at least $800 and it probably won't be all that powerful judging by how small it is. Now like a PC this "steam box" is upgradable, oh but wait it doesn't follow any of the established standards so upgraded parts will also cost a fortune.

So in summary, it'll be ridiculously expensive and completely useless. One might even call it a "giant sadness." Pot calling the kettle black eh Gabe?

It just hurts everybody in the PC business. Rather than everybody being all excited to go buy a new PC, buying new software to run on it, we've had a 20+ percent decline in PC sales -- it's like "holy cow that's not what the new generation of the operating system is supposed to do."

And most of that decline has come from people switching over to tablets. Let's face it, there are millions of people who use their computers for nothing but browsing facebook, email, and reading some random site. They don't need a cheap big heavy desktop/laptop or an expensive light laptop since a small tablet suits them perfectly. So what are those people going to do? Oh they're going to buy a tablet.

PC sales have been declining for a long time now. They were down to their second lowest level in history in 2011 (the first being in 2001 when XP was released, was that a failure Gabe?), and what OS was around then? Oh it was Windows 7. Going to call Windows 7 a failure now too Gabe because PC sales were low?

Edited by -Razorfold, Jan 9 2013, 3:44am :

Lord Method Man said,
Gabe is a big enough idiot that I might have to stop using Steam. What a blowhard.

I tried that. I still like their sales...and you can't really avoid Steamworks games.

Use other stores whenever I can though.

Funny enough, practically all the Christmas sales this year sucked on Steam vs other resellers. Amazon beat Steam with an ugly stick on just about everything.

For example, all the Lego titles, were at least 25%-75% cheaper than Steam's best sale prices (Lego Lord of the Rings was $20 on Steam, and $7.50 on Amazon, and almost everything else Lego was under $5 on Amazon). Spec Ops The Line was around $11 on Steam, and Bioshock 1 & 2 were $10 combined on Steam, where all three combined were $10 on Amazon. Dark Souls was also at its best price $20 on Steam, and $10 on Amazon.

All of these were sold as Steam keys directly from Amazon too.

Now who's to say in the future that Microsoft won't do the same, and allow developers to sell apps through any party, but also allow coupon codes to unlock/activate through the store?

People are entitled to their own opinions. Valve hasn't really ever made a move where I sat back and thought, "Those jerks!" so... until that day comes, I'll be a happy customer, even if I disagree with Gabe.

Kaedrin said,
Funny enough, practically all the Christmas sales this year sucked on Steam vs other resellers. Amazon beat Steam with an ugly stick on just about everything.

For example, all the Lego titles, were at least 25%-75% cheaper than Steam's best sale prices (Lego Lord of the Rings was $20 on Steam, and $7.50 on Amazon, and almost everything else Lego was under $5 on Amazon). Spec Ops The Line was around $11 on Steam, and Bioshock 1 & 2 were $10 combined on Steam, where all three combined were $10 on Amazon. Dark Souls was also at its best price $20 on Steam, and $10 on Amazon.

In some cases yes, but it's taken a long time for the competition to get actually heated. It's been lukewarm compared to what Steam offered over the years. Now we finally have real sales, real competition going, sites like greenmangaming along with other digital distributors, especially Amazon.

Thing is though: when it comes to looking for those digital copies, how many of us want the Steam keys, versus another distribution model? Because that's what I've been looking for in buying Dark Souls, XCOM, and such. They're still, in a way, winning in that regard.

Edited by dead.cell, Jan 9 2013, 4:32am :

Lord Method Man said,
Gabe is a big enough idiot that I might have to stop using Steam. What a blowhard.

You call him a blowhard, yet I bet you lack the integrity to actually act on your words, rather than just make empty threats to vent anger on a news article.

Acting on his words? He's not doing anything other than expanding his service to other platform. If he really thought Windows 8 was a catastrophe and some BS sadness, then he should withdraw completely from Windows.

But guess what? He won't. The guy is a blowhard that sees competition and cries about it. He made his money while at Microsoft, and now he's still suckling off of MS's teet since his Steam software essentially is installed on 95% of his user base.

"Gabe said"

"If you do something that is cool, that's actually worth people's time, then they'll adopt it," Newell told The Verge. "If you do something that's not cool and sucks, you can spend as many marketing dollars as you want, [they] just won't."

Microsoft called, and said 100 million apps have been downloaded.

Jose_49 said,

Microsoft called, and said 100 million apps have been downloaded.

As someone pointed out somewhere else, that comes off as less than 2 apps per "sold" license. Not very impressive.

not all licenses sold refers to a consumer, I think you are confusing a software license with a piece of hardware. Do you also thing all 700 million windows 7 licenses are installed on consumer pc's too???

Luc2k said,

As someone pointed out somewhere else, that comes off as less than 2 apps per "sold" license. Not very impressive.

As someone pointed out somewhere else, these sales include sales to OEMs for machines not yet activated.

... Derp

Toysoldier said,

As someone pointed out somewhere else, these sales include sales to OEMs for machines not yet activated.

... Derp

I was just taking a page out of the W8 die-hard manual who use the 60mil sale figure as if it represents active users. Even if there are say 15mil actual W8 users, the apps number is still pitifully low.

My point: there aren't anywhere close to 60 mil active licenses, but there's a healthy app use OR there's a nice install base, but the App Store is a failure. Basically, there's a failed aspect with W8 in either case.

we've had a 20+ percent decline in PC sales -- it's like "holy cow that's not what the new generation of the operating system is supposed to do." There's supposed to be a 40 percent uptake, not a 20 percent decline, so that's what really scares me. When I started using it I was like "oh my god..." I find [Windows 8] unusable."

Seriously? The PC industry has been declining for years now, and Windows 8 hasn't been able to turn that around in two months? The overall state of computing now is shifting toward tablets and mobile devices. This is not the doing of Windows 8. Further, Windows 8 isn't even designed to reverse this trend; it's designed to embrace tablets and mobile devices.

Newell should be HAPPY about the change. It means people are buying less ****ty netbooks which won't run his games, and if they're buying a PC at all it's more powerful. Average selling price of PCs has gone UP since Windows 8 was released. The number of >$500 computers has gone UP.

Like it or not, Newell, Windows 8 will be the second (only to Windows 7) most used platform on Steam come the spring. More popular than Linux and OSX combined. Such a great sadness.

Luc2k said,
How dare you not like Windows 8, Mr Newell! HOW DARE YOU!!!

We established months ago he didn't like it....so why is he still crying all the time?

Because he believes W8 is the cause of reduced hardware sales going by the full quote and since he's behind the biggest PC distribution platform, he probably sees W8 as a handicap on the expansion of said platform.

That is my view on his position anyway.

technikal said,

We established months ago he didn't like it....so why is he still crying all the time?

Isn't it obvious? He was interviewed recently. If his opinion about Windows 8 didn't change, then he'll express the same disappointment he expressed "months ago".

Luc2k said,
Because he believes W8 is the cause of reduced hardware sales going by the full quote and since he's behind the biggest PC distribution platform, he probably sees W8 as a handicap on the expansion of said platform.

That is my view on his position anyway.

I think we will stick to the hypothesis that he is butthurt over the fact Windows has a Store now, ie there is an out of the box marketplace that competes/can compete with his.

technikal said,

We established months ago he didn't like it....so why is he still crying all the time?

For the same reason you go full mad mode when someone is hurting your beloved company. The Verge asked him a question and he answered with the same way. He has a solid opinion... What could he have done? Would you like him to start saying, "oh, now Win8 is awesome"? Windows 8 is unusable, truth to be told. When these metrics had been taken, I was on Steam with Windows 8. Now, I went back to Windows 7 because I'm solely a PC user and I like consistency and comfort, instead of an uncomfortably messy OS that already received 2 mini-SPs.

Also, Windows 7 already received the important updates, like D2D/D3D/Directwrite etc and slowly -if you notice- each month when MS release the updates, Windows 7 is taking even more things from Windows 8. There's not a single reason to go on Windows 8, unless you're masochist or simply an average joe user who is just using the PC for browsing, a movie or two; in short, just for fun. You mad bro?

No matter how you see it, nothing like a clean, fully updated copy of Windows 7 -if you're traditional PC user. My PC is not a tablet and will never become one. Also, my PC is not Microsoft's market place with its ads and all. Win7 is clean.

When we're talking about Win8 ala Vista fiasco, you should never forget its cheap price. Also, Microsoft's "gift" to pirates, free copies to boost the important initial usage statistics.

Edited by PC EliTiST, Jan 9 2013, 8:36am :

PC EliTiST said,

For the same reason you go full mad mode when someone is hurting your beloved company. The Verge asked him a question and he answered with the same way. He has a solid opinion... What could he have done? Would you like him to start saying, "oh, now Win8 is awesome"? Windows 8 is unusable, truth to be told. When these metrics had been taken, I was on Steam with Windows 8. Now, I went back to Windows 7 because I'm solely a PC user and I like consistency and comfort, instead of an uncomfortably messy OS that already received 2 mini-SPs.

Also, Windows 7 already received the important updates, like D2D/D3D/Directwrite etc and slowly -if you notice- each month when MS release the updates, Windows 7 is taking even more things from Windows 8. There's not a single reason to go on Windows 8, unless you're masochist or simply an average joe user who is just using the PC for browsing, a movie or two; in short, just for fun. You mad bro?

No matter how you see it, nothing like a clean, fully updated copy of Windows 7 -if you're traditional PC user. My PC is not a tablet and will never become one. Also, my PC is not Microsoft's market place with its ads and all. Win7 is clean.

When we're talking about Win8 ala Vista fiasco, you should never forget its cheap price. Also, Microsoft's "gift" to pirates, free copies to boost the important initial usage statistics.

I have no vested interest in Microsoft. Beyond their OS and a branded mouse I'm pretty much non committal. If something better came along I'd switch but that's never happened.

What Newell should have done was say "I've made my thoughts clear" and then focused on the new device he's pimping. But he couldn't resist taking more pops at Windows 8 which, as anyone who has used it for more than 5 minutes knows, is just Windows 7 with a new start screen and some tweaks. Literally 98% of your time is spent on the desktop which (SHOCK) is pretty much identical to the Win7 one. Your programs work just like before.

The differences are such that it's essentially like Porsche releasing yet another 911 with people lauding the "old one" but ****ting on the "new one" because they changed the profile of the wing mirrors.

It's why no one is even talking about the new steam box he's failing hard at promoting. Must be hoping for a quiet death on that already.

I would be sad too if I blew $150-$200 on Windows 8. But since it was only $40, I just shrugged, uninstalled it and threw away the CD. It's not that big of deal to me. I think Gabe is blowing it all out of proportion but I still respect him. He's an innovator in a stagnant market.

brn said,
I would be sad too if I blew $150-$200 on Windows 8. But since it was only $40, I just shrugged, uninstalled it and threw away the CD. It's not that big of deal to me. I think Gabe is blowing it all out of proportion but I still respect him. He's an innovator in a stagnant market.

Wow, you actually uninstalled it? I'm sorry but that really is pathetic.

ingramator said,

Wow, you actually uninstalled it? I'm sorry but that really is pathetic.


It's not pathetic to uninstall software if you do not like it. That's the nice things about not having just one choice, you can actually decide if you like the software, and if you do not, you can use something else.

I find refusing to use a piece of software you have paid money for on pointless grounds rather pathetic to be honest. Particularly 'because it's cheap'.

But hey, if someone wants to waste their time switching between 2 operating systems that are practically identical (The way I use windows, there's basically no difference, I've always used search to open applications anyway) then that's their choice!

Is he a secret apple shareholder or something? I like valve and PC gaming (been on steam 9 years) but I use Windows 8 and I don't really get what all the butt hurt is about. If you don't like the look or feel then fine but there is literally no difference to the core functionality.

technikal said,
Is he a secret apple shareholder or something? I like valve and PC gaming (been on steam 9 years) but I use Windows 8 and I don't really get what all the butt hurt is about. If you don't like the look or feel then fine but there is literally no difference to the core functionality.

You suck at reading. He's a fan of openess. Comprehend that however you want but it's not like he's partnering with apple. He's going to Linux.

People like you are why we can't have nice things on the internet

Sikh said,
People like you are why we can't have nice things on the internet

And what nice things do you want on the Internet ? Flowers ? Cars ? tell me ...

Sikh said,

You suck at reading. He's a fan of openess. Comprehend that however you want but it's not like he's partnering with apple. He's going to Linux.

People like you are why we can't have nice things on the internet

BS. What part of Valve or Steam is designed for openness? The private corporation with it's digital rights management distro system? They even hide sales figures and make partners sign NDA's. Openness? Give me a break.

If anything he ought to be a fan of Windows and PC gaming seeings 95% of the users of his product use the OS to access it. And guess what, this time next year we'll see a similar table except Windows 8 will be 30% or 40% of the total. Will he still be crying tears?

This misadventure with "Piston" is folly. Valve should stick to what they're good at - PC gaming/distribution instead of dicking around with linux boxes that make a Wii look powerful.

Edited by Sandor, Jan 9 2013, 3:24am :

Your argument is misleading. I am ready to believe that perhaps 95 % of the users use "Windows" (not Windows 8 only) to access Steam, However, by stating that he "ought to be a fan" of "Windows" is invalid because his recent thumbs down are given solely to Windows *8*, not the entire 95 % of steam users using accesses the software through Windows.

Also to the first commenter who said Windows is not allowed to have a store FYI, Windows had an almost identical store called the Games for Windows Marketplace, similar to Steam, which was external software that was separate from Windows. Even though the Windows Store comes with every Windows 8 computer and offers a larger variety of apps (rather than Steam that solely focuses on providing a large variety of games) there are certain aspects of Steam that consumers adore (particularly their low Steam sales, the Steam community, cross platform functionality (Windows, Mac, Linux soon)) that Microsoft will try to imitate but will never be able to grasp fully.

yazb123 said,
Your argument is misleading. I am ready to believe that perhaps 95 % of the users use "Windows" (not Windows 8 only) to access Steam, However, by stating that he "ought to be a fan" of "Windows" is invalid because his recent thumbs down are given solely to Windows *8*, not the entire 95 % of steam users using accesses the software through Windows.

Also to the first commenter who said Windows is not allowed to have a store FYI, Windows had an almost identical store called the Games for Windows Marketplace, similar to Steam, which was external software that was separate from Windows. Even though the Windows Store comes with every Windows 8 computer and offers a larger variety of apps (rather than Steam that solely focuses on providing a large variety of games) there are certain aspects of Steam that consumers adore (particularly their low Steam sales, the Steam community, cross platform functionality (Windows, Mac, Linux soon)) that Microsoft will try to imitate but will never be able to grasp fully.

Nothing misleading about it. Let's look at how it really is: He's trying to be all things to all people but in reality all Newell is doing is biting the hand that feeds. He's ****ed off because his company relies almost exclusively on Windows users to make any money. It will continue to be this way because Valve is primarily in PC Gaming and PC gamers use Windows - End.

When Microsoft take a new path or approach (how dare they change their own OS!) he gets his panties in a twist. He's obviously just noticed he has no influence or say in the matter so he's reduced to spouting off poetically about his "great sadness".

He'd be better served by focusing on Steam and maybe making some new games rather than gesticulating about Windows 8 and ****ing money against the wall with his "Linux box". We all know where that's going. Nowhere. Anyone else spotting an issue with his comments on "cool" stuff which people will buy. Instead, by being a whiney bitch people aren't even talking about his new "console". Cool marketing strategy bro.

Edited by Sandor, Jan 9 2013, 4:28am :

technikal said,

Nothing misleading about it. Let's look at how it really is: He's trying to be all things to all people but in reality all Newell is doing is biting the hand that feeds. He's ****ed off because his company relies almost exclusively on Windows users to make any money. It will continue to be this way because Valve is primarily in PC Gaming and PC gamers use Windows - End.

When Microsoft take a new path or approach (how dare they change their own OS!) he gets his panties in a twist. He's obviously just noticed he has no influence or say in the matter so he's reduced to spouting off poetically about his "great sadness".

He'd be better served by focusing on Steam and maybe making some new games rather than gesticulating about Windows 8 and ****ing money against the wall with his "Linux box". We all know where that's going. Nowhere. Anyone else spotting an issue with his comments on "cool" stuff which people will buy. Instead, by being a whiney bitch people aren't even talking about his new "console". Cool marketing strategy bro.

People are going to find a way to play their steam games on whatever version of windows. So I'm not quite sure how much Win8 actually affects Valve's business.

What I do see is Gabe simply offering an opinion, albeit a strong one, about an OS that has been met with limited success. In fact, his choice to be vocal and perhaps less popular might indicate a lack of commercially-driven concern.

"limited success??? It just came out 3 months and have more Steam user's than every other OS that isn't MS's!!!!

yazb123 said,
Your argument is misleading. I am ready to believe that perhaps 95 % of the users use "Windows" (not Windows 8 only) to access Steam, However, by stating that he "ought to be a fan" of "Windows" is invalid because his recent thumbs down are given solely to Windows *8*, not the entire 95 % of steam users using accesses the software through Windows.

Also to the first commenter who said Windows is not allowed to have a store FYI, Windows had an almost identical store called the Games for Windows Marketplace, similar to Steam, which was external software that was separate from Windows. Even though the Windows Store comes with every Windows 8 computer and offers a larger variety of apps (rather than Steam that solely focuses on providing a large variety of games) there are certain aspects of Steam that consumers adore (particularly their low Steam sales, the Steam community, cross platform functionality (Windows, Mac, Linux soon)) that Microsoft will try to imitate but will never be able to grasp fully.


Oh they grasp it allright. You show a severe lack of understanding of Microsoft past and future. The one thing MS does not care about is cross platform, they will do nothing to promote gaming on Linux, as there is no money to be made there. Gaming on Linux will NEVER take off, there is no money to be made into the platform, hell even PC gaming is next to dead. This is of course a much bigger problem for steam than the Windows Store or GFWL (funny you should mention it !).

The steam guy has great plans, I am placing bets right now that none of them will amount to anything. It surprises me he actually attacks Windows 8, as it will be one of the few platforms where he can be guaranteed to make money on in the next few years. The other one is Windows 7, there are no other platforms left. .

Still, there is the reality that Steam works just fine on Windows 8 - despite the ranting of Gabe Newell. I've had nary an issue installing (or reinstalling) games on Steam since moving bag and baggage to 8 RTM Pro (x64 with Media Center). Start Screen? Please - I go there as little as I did to Windows 7's Start menu (not much at all), and pretty much ONLY to launch ModernUI-based applications. Win32 applications (including Steam-based games - in fact, all my Win32-based games) I launch from the desktop - identically to when I ran 7. (That's right - I had pretty much kicked the Start menu to the curb WHILE running Windows 7 - Windows 8 had nada to do with it.) No desktop shortcut? Not a problem - I either Runbox it (which is how I launch Office applications and the Control Panel most of the time) or I pin it to the Superbar (carried over from 7 - in fact, I have Firefox 18, uTorrent, Skype, Yahoo Messenger, and Comodo Dragon pinned there now).

PGHammer said,
Still, there is the reality that Steam works just fine on Windows 8 - despite the ranting of Gabe Newell. I've had nary an issue installing (or reinstalling) games on Steam since moving bag and baggage to 8 RTM Pro (x64 with Media Center). Start Screen? Please - I go there as little as I did to Windows 7's Start menu (not much at all), and pretty much ONLY to launch ModernUI-based applications. Win32 applications (including Steam-based games - in fact, all my Win32-based games) I launch from the desktop - identically to when I ran 7. (That's right - I had pretty much kicked the Start menu to the curb WHILE running Windows 7 - Windows 8 had nada to do with it.) No desktop shortcut? Not a problem - I either Runbox it (which is how I launch Office applications and the Control Panel most of the time) or I pin it to the Superbar (carried over from 7 - in fact, I have Firefox 18, uTorrent, Skype, Yahoo Messenger, and Comodo Dragon pinned there now).

I did an upgrade from 7 to 8 and everything bar daemon tools was deemed compatible. No drama, no BS, no nasty surprises after the install. All devices found and drivers installed automatically. All my programs and files exactly as before. Hasn't crashed once, never blue screened, no errors. In these terms Windows 8 is a masterpiece.

I too spend very little time in the start screen but when I do it's fine. I like the notifications for my email and being able to quickly see updates, the weather and stuff like that. Instead of annoying desktop "widgets" that suck resources and desktop space it's all tucked away as soon as I leave the start screen.

Well duh, obviously Microsoft isn't going to promote gaming on other platforms other than their own, unless the games are their own and there is a huge opening in the gaming market which there isn't. That's the point, with Steam, some of their best games have cross platform functionality which can play on Windows, Mac or Linux. It's flexible because if at one point we want to play on Mac or Linux and don't want to use virtual software or bootcamp we will always have the option.

That was my point, Microsoft won't promote cross functional gaming, why would they shoot themselves in the foot? I would also like to see Microsoft have insanely low online sales like Steam, and then maybe I'll shut up a little bit.

Also are you serious PC gaming is next to dead. Have you been living under a rock? Thanks to companies such as Valve, and Steam, PC gaming is surging more than ever. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jo...ed-in-18-6-billion-in-2011/

Also I never said that Linux is the future of gaming or anything. I just said they are more flexible than Windows Store, because Steam and the games downloaded through it can be run on different platforms. Moreover, there is no money in Linux now, because people like you think that way. We need to start including more open source application into our lives. I think the decision to create a Linux based console is moving in the right direction, otherwise we can always go back to watching the very amusing patent wars; that's clearly the better option.

He can still make money off of Windows 8 and not like the OS. Microsoft isn't obliging them by making an OS that can support Steam. He can badmouth it all he wants and still make money off of it. You're right he is forced to make money off of the Windows franchise and a few years, perhaps most of the money he generates will be due to Windows 8. He doesn't like the OS for whatever reason, doesn't really matter, yet he has to ensure that most of the games on Steam are configured for Windows(8), which annoys him (which may also be the reason he is running it off of Linux)

Oh? Here's a weirdie - the link to Age of Empires Online (on the game's own Microsoft-hosted microsite) points to - egads! - *Steam*. (The same was true of Microsoft Flight *before* they decided to shut it down.) AoE Online has a link in the Windows 8 Store (in Games) as well - that ALSO points to Steam. Is Gabe Newell completely lacking of clue?

sjaak327 said,


Oh they grasp it allright. You show a severe lack of understanding of Microsoft past and future. The one thing MS does not care about is cross platform, they will do nothing to promote gaming on Linux, as there is no money to be made there. Gaming on Linux will NEVER take off, there is no money to be made into the platform, hell even PC gaming is next to dead. This is of course a much bigger problem for steam than the Windows Store or GFWL (funny you should mention it !).

The steam guy has great plans, I am placing bets right now that none of them will amount to anything. It surprises me he actually attacks Windows 8, as it will be one of the few platforms where he can be guaranteed to make money on in the next few years. The other one is Windows 7, there are no other platforms left. .


Actually, before DirectX, MS looked at Linux/OpenGL to use as their default GPU driver/accelerator.
And it had nothing to do with money or whats there to be made. MS, before starting DirectX, has actually helped develop OpenGL (for all platforms, they wrote cross compatible code).
They eventually basically tolled them to suck it because of OpenGL not wanting to set standards and keep it way to open. (i.e. 1 package to rule them all instead of the modular-based design back then).
Also they refused to cooperate to backport features that can work flawlessly on Windows and can intergrate with the OS because others simply lacked that capability without changing key parts in the Linux kernel.

Oh also Microsoft has developed a Unix based OS before.


Oh and MS was the biggest supplyer of sourcecode to the 3.0 release of the Linux Kernel.

To add on this, MS has also spend time and money researching new GPU techniques and has released them open and for free to everyone to use, and has even made a start/example sourcecode for Linux and co to add into the Linux kernel for better GPU acceleration (ofc this submission was refused).

mikesingh said,
Gabe needs either a good backhand to the face or a kick in the pants.

Lets keep the bedroom talk confined to the bedroom and focus on the bigger issue here

EvilAstroboy said,
I think Gabe is a "Giant" sadness

We need a replacement for steam. This is a company that is against its own customers choices.

He's right. How dare Microsoft have a store! Everyone else can, but Microsoft can't. That's bad.

I think I should sign up my PC just to troll "Gaben".

Indeed.

I love this little nugget:

He also envisions a time where the Steam Box will be more of a server than a normal gaming PC, saying eventually one PC could connect to "eight televisions and eight controllers and everybody [would be getting] great performance out of it.".

Is he paying an iota of attention to the trend of people ditching desktops in favor of mobility? Seriously, that would have been cool like 10-15 years ago, but times have changed quite a bit.

Bad Man Duke said,
Is he paying an iota of attention to the trend of people ditching desktops in favor of mobility? ...

he's more than willing to blame the affects of mobility (people buying tablets and mobile phones instead of PCs) on Windows8. The PC market is in a general decline in terms of market share. It's totally erroneous though. The PC market is strong, and ultimately the OS should not matter for steam. It's about the games, not the platform it runs on.

ultimately, others have said he needs to get over the fact that Windows8 has a store that sells games. There's little to no overlap there currently, and if that changes it will be down to market forces. That basically means steam can't rest on its laurels, it needs to keep innovating and keep gamers central.

Bad Man Duke said,
Is he paying an iota of attention to the trend of people ditching desktops in favor of mobility? Seriously, that would have been cool like 10-15 years ago, but times have changed quite a bit.

Exactly what I think. We're in the age of mobility. 3G is there, 4G now, high speed internet connections, wi-fi spots everywhere, and it's almost impossible to go out and don't see anyone using a tablet or smartphone to email, social networks or even gaming. Maybe even more than phone calls or sms.
I'm using Windows 8 since MS early released it in MSDN, and i'm happy with it. I still can play my games, use the same software I used with Windows 7, and now I can get great games for free on the store. The new interface is not a problem. I think ppl are not comfortable with the fact that the old start menu changed. They don't like something new, no matter what it is. And this is weird, specially when the subject is technology, the most dynamic subject of all.

Filipe Ribeiro said,

Exactly what I think. We're in the age of mobility. 3G is there, 4G now, high speed internet connections, wi-fi spots everywhere, and it's almost impossible to go out and don't see anyone using a tablet or smartphone to email, social networks or even gaming. Maybe even more than phone calls or sms.
I'm using Windows 8 since MS early released it in MSDN, and i'm happy with it. I still can play my games, use the same software I used with Windows 7, and now I can get great games for free on the store.

In the same vein that you cannot have certain PC genres on consoles (RTS and Hack&Slash for example), same happens on mobile platforms that can't have games that are quite natural in a PC or Console environment; mainly sports, shooters and anything that needs fast paced action or more than 2 buttons.

And yeah, you might enjoy your mobile games a lot, and even more than your other console/pc ones... but that's a matter of personal taste, not because the mobile platform managed to replicate or even improve on the gaming experience.