California man says he can drive in carpool lane with corporation papers

[Hum]

If you get caught in a carpool lane, you face a hefty fine.

We met a Bay Area man who intentionally drove alone in the carpool lanes in hopes of getting a ticket - not to pay the fine, but to prove a point.

San Rafael's Jonathan Frieman is now fighting a ticket he received for driving alone in the carpool lane, saying that he did have a passenger at the time he was pulled over. That passenger was his corporation papers, which he carried with him in the passengers seat.

Frieman sees the ticket as a chance to legally comment on the definition of a corporation as being a person.

He got the ticket back in October, but he claims he wasn't really driving alone because he had his corporation papers with him and a corporation is a person under the law.

Frieman says his fight isn't about traffic, but about corporate power.

"I'm just arresting their power and using it for my service to drive in the carpool lane," Frieman said.

USF law professor Robert Talbot says the point is a little bit of a stretch.

Talbot said the point of the carpool lane law is to get cars off the road and Frieman is steering away from the intent of the law.

"A court might say well it says person and a corporation is a person so that'll work for the carpool lane it's possible but I doubt it," Talbot said.

Frieman said he is hoping to take his case well beyond a Marin County traffic hearing, which is scheduled for Monday.

He wants corporate personhood and the protections corporation have to be debated in a higher court. He says he wants to turn that legal definition on its head.

source

[BajiRav]

Good for him.

[SoCalRox]

The technical term for this guy is "idiot." Someone should point out to him that the incorporation papers isn't the same as the corporation. And that it won't work anyway.

Well, maybe in California. Lived there for years. Lots of nut cases on the bench who are stupid enough to fall for such silly logic.

[Salutary7]

Well, it's a good reminder of how stupid some judicial decisions on corporate personhood really were. The term "person" was originally inserted to force debts to be paid, which previously were only legally binding between two or more persons. Now it's turned into a sideshow where corporations try to claim they have the same rights as actual US citizens and are sometimes successful.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

They should just change the law to say "homosapien"

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

From what I've been reading, he's been doing this for a while hoping to get caught (which took a while) and using the same argument the supreme court ruled why a corporation is a "person". He's objective is to challenge corporation as a person status.

[Hum]

They should fine him big time, for such a lame excuse.

Paper is not equal to a live human being.

[neufuse Veteran]

They should fine him big time, for such a lame excuse.

Paper is not equal to a live human being.

but that is exactly what he is TRYING to prove... he's using imagery to prove that a corporation on paper != a person, which the supreme court apparently said in recent rulings that a corporation does count as a person

[Hum]

^ Then a lot of those corporate 'persons' would be in prison for murder. ;)

[_neutrino Veteran]

reminds me of community when Subway was a person.

[neufuse Veteran]

^ Then a lot of those corporate 'persons' would be in prison for murder. ;)

gov considers them people, people consider them thieves, gov does nothing about it... only way to get stuff to change is to fix the supreme court ruling and make the right people responsible for an entities actions, not let an entity assume the role of a living person for lobbying and other crap..

[Japlabot]

Nothing wrong with the conceot of a corporation, does not mean they are theives.

This guy was carrying PAPERS, not the corporation itself. The corporation as a body onky exists legally, not in the physical world, so how can they be in the car.

A stupid idea is a stupid idea and his fine will stick with hopefully some penalty for wasting the courts time.

[shakey]

This guy didn't use enough "free speech" ( money ) on the officer who wrote him the ticket... :p

Remember, Money is now seen as free speech. It is legal to bribe :p

[Tom]

They should fine him big time, for such a lame excuse.

Paper is not equal to a live human being.

Corporations aren't human beings, yet they're treated as such by the supreme court.

Your logic is flawed.

[Hum]

^ I was talking about physical people that take up a lot of space, have a lot of weight, therefore burn up much gas -- the very reason for car pools.

[ILikeTobacco]

Corporations aren't human beings, yet they're treated as such by the supreme court.

Your logic is flawed.

And you logic is incomplete. You, and everyone that is 100% against corporations having personhood status in court ignore the fact of what a corporation is. A corporation is a group of people. Hence, a corporation has the same collective rights as those people. The moment that the government started taxing corporations and not just the workers in those corporations, the government gave corporations personhood as well as a voice in government. If you want to argue that a corporation is not a person, stop charging it taxes as if it is a citizen of the country.

[jwjw1]

put the idiot in jail....bubba will ride him...er!...I mean ride with him... :laugh:

[Tom]

And you logic is incomplete. You, and everyone that is 100% against corporations having personhood status in court ignore the fact of what a corporation is. A corporation is a group of people. Hence, a corporation has the same collective rights as those people. The moment that the government started taxing corporations and not just the workers in those corporations, the government gave corporations personhood as well as a voice in government. If you want to argue that a corporation is not a person, stop charging it taxes as if it is a citizen of the country.

This is possibly the most unintelligent post I've ever read on Neowin. Oh dear god...

[Growled Member]

The technical term for this guy is "idiot."

Ha, I hear ya. Even calling him an idiot is being kind to him.

[*RedBull*]

They should just change the law to say "homosapien"

Way too many of those in San Fran alone...and the rest of Cali.<face palm>

[*RedBull*]

This is possibly the most unintelligent post I've ever read on Neowin. Oh dear god...

PLEASE...do elaborate...

[remixedcat]

I drive in the carpool lane with a baby raptor and the cops are totally cool with it.... they even pet his head and he purred.

[einsteinbqat]

If this guy wins his case, that is because of the US courts, which since the 19th century keeps granting more rights to corporations than necessary, and blurring the line between a natural person (like you and me), and a legal person or entity (I prefer the term entity, like any business or non-profit corporations). Corporate personhood is very particular in the USA compared to the rest of the world.

We can call this man many things, but he sure knows how to use the laws in his favour.

[rfirth]

If you want to argue that a corporation is not a person, stop charging it taxes as if it is a citizen of the country.

Corporations can't vote. Corporations can't serve on jury duty or in the military - which are required of citizens. Would you like to change that?

I can't wait to see Microsoft, Google, and Apple serving jury duty on a murder trial.

And no, they aren't charging it taxes as if it was a citizen of the country. If that were the case, corporations would pay the individual income tax rates.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

I totally support this guy after having been in situations when you're are stuck in traffic while delivering some corporate papers that you have prepared and have to submit to some government agency asap or else you are fired!