PSN 'An Almost Complete Failure' and Team Meat Are 'Loud Crybab

[Ironman273]

PSN 'An Almost Complete Failure' and Team Meat Are 'Loud Crybabies,' says Developer

Posted September 30, 2011 by James Brightman

Sony has attacked Microsoft's treatment of developers, and while Team Meat (Super Meat Boy) might agree - noting that they got the short end of the stick from Microsoft - Zen Studios and other indies clearly have a different opinion. IndustryGamers has just heard from Guillaume Boucher-Vidal, Studio Manager at Nine Dots Studio Inc., which is currently working on a title called Brand. Boucher-Vidal doesn't think very highly of PSN or Team Meat.

"Microsoft's XBLA is very strict, and their technical requirements represent about 800 man hours from the programming team to adapt to. PSN doesn't have those kind of requirements, but at the same time, PSN is an almost complete failure in regards to sales, so they have to find a way to cater to developers somehow, and they do so by having very low standards," he commented.

"I've quit Activision a few months ago and I am now working on a game that will be submitted on either XBLIG or XBLA. My personal experience with them is very positive so far. There is no chance in hell that PlayStation would offer a platform that is as open as Xbox Live Indie Games. The test kits for PlayStation are also something way beyond what a start up could afford, so their accessibility is a moot point if you don't have significant funding. So while you have very strict requirements for XBLA, it's a very successful platform in terms of sales and consistency, and there's a lot of freedom on XBLIG."

As for the Team Meat controversy, Boucher-Vidal believes Sony's simply been trying to take advantage of the situation to make Microsoft look bad for developers.

"I think that the Super Meat Boy's team is just being loud crybabies and Sony wants to use their recent noise to stand out as the good guy. But among a lot of people I know in the indie community, SMB is perceived very negatively for their childish and egocentric behavior," he added.

Source: IndustryGamers

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

That's a lot of hate from someone who's planning to release a game on XBLIG or XBLA. And it seems a little extreme too. Also, this is the first time I've read about PSN being "an almost complete failure". Are the PSN sales bad or something?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Seeing as this is their first title to be released, just seems like any attention is good attention. I think I'll pay attention to more established developers with more experience on such services.

[Ironman273]

I'm not going to get into an arguing match with you since you are completely devoid of logic, but I remember the complaints from Team Meat and thought a counter point would be only fair. As for your high horse, take a look at this from Wikipedia:

Their first game, Super Meat Boy, was released on October 20, 2010 on the Xbox 360 via Xbox Live Arcade,[15] and on Valve Corporation's digital distribution site Steam on November 30, 2010.

So by your logic you should discount both arguments and end up null. Others can read both (since links are even provided in my article) and develop their own opinions.

[Motoko.]

Sony will just have to do better with the Vita

[McKay]

Now I prefer my Xbox over Playstation any day. But I'd never go as far to say PSN is a "failure"

[Ayepecks]

Microsoft's put a lot of support in to XBLA, so I don't think it's really a fair comparison to PSN. Sony just hasn't put a lot of their weight into the PSN gaming space, even though there are some quality titles in there. I think next generation you're going to see a massive emphasis from both companies put on downloadable games (Games on Demand full-titles and XBLA/PSN games).

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I'm not going to get into an arguing match with you since you are completely devoid of logic, but I remember the complaints from Team Meat and thought a counter point would be only fair. As for your high horse, take a look at this from Wikipedia:

So by your logic you should discount both arguments and end up null. Others can read both (since links are even provided in my article) and develop their own opinions.

My "logic" in this topic is I don't believe this opinion, you go ahead and believe whatever you want, you won't change my mind here considering the quality I see and play on PSN nowhere near indicates the depths of "near complete failure." If you believe otherwise we don't agree with each other.

Brand new dev, website is a wordpress account and they have no track record to go on in terms of quality (their first game isn't released). I'll happily keep my doubts over credibility of their opinion for the foreseeable future Ironman.

Team Meat have produced a quality game, and have gone from development right through to publishing and getting sales data from Xbox Live/MS, for what it's worth, but what they said and what's being said here is for two different topics.

[George P Global Moderator]

Quality of a title often has little to do with sales which is the original argument being tossed around here. Lots of "quality" games go underrated and thus don't sell anywhere near as much as one would expect.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Quality of a title often has little to do with sales which is the original argument being tossed around here. Lots of "quality" games go underrated and thus don't sell anywhere near as much as one would expect.

Wouldn't we actually see lots of other developers complain about PSN sales then, and potentially stop releasing PSN titles? Why is this developer who hasn't released anything on PSN acting as if they've been burned by a PSN release?

but at the same time, PSN is an almost complete failure in regards to sales, so they have to find a way to cater to developers somehow, and they do so by having very low standards,

Also what is the backup for a statement like that? Some of the best downloadable titles of this generation have come through the ranks of PSN. Want to debate that, ask this community on Neowin what they think of PSN exclusive titles.

This developer sounds like crybaby if anything IMO.

[George P Global Moderator]

The developer in question isn't new to the game industry, he's worked for a big publisher, game maker in Activision who sell a good chunk of things on both platforms as far as full games and DLC content and so on. I'd say he has enough insight into the requirements and differences in the process between getting something on PSN and something on XBL which, lets face it, is well known already.

It's fact, and other devs have said as much, that MS has a tighter control and more restrictions on what goes up on XBLA or XBL in general even as far as simple patches goes while PSN doesn't really. Case in point, Valve anyone?

If a dev doesn't sell well on PSN and sells better on XBL they don't really have to come out and say anything, in the end a sale is a sale so I won't argue this bit much. Plus they also release on the PC and make up for things if they don't on the consoles. Is super meat boy a good game? I guess, but you know what's better? The fact MS requires you to offer a trial/demo for your arcade game. While on something like Steam, which is what Team Meat used as their hurrah comparison for "way more sales" does not. So how do you know you'll like a game (unless you live and die by reviews, which I think is stupid) on a service that doesn't offer a demo/trial? You pay for it in the end. That's easy sales but doesn't mean jack as far as how actually good your game is since people, while interested in it, are forced to actually pay for it in the end. Of course you'll end up with more sales on that service then, simple logic.

[neoadorable]

would never call the PSN a failure in any sense, i like it a lot. however, it is true that i've bought much more on XBL than on PSN on a monthly average. not sure why exactly, both are the same to all intents and purposes for downloadable games.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Welcome to todays ‘Spot The Irony’ competition in which you – yes you – could win nothing at all. The backstory: Team Meat (the guys behind Super Meat Boy) had a bit of a whinge at Microsoft for failing to promote their game. Sales were low, Microsoft refused to help out.

Step forward Guillaume Boucher-Vidal, Studio Manager at Nine Dots Studio Inc, a chap who recently left Activision and has said ‘I think that the Super Meat Boy team is just being loud crybabies’. He then continues,

Microsoft’s XBLA is very strict, and their technical requirements represent about 800 man hours from the programming team to adapt to. PSN doesn’t have those kind of requirements, but at the same time, PSN is an almost complete failure in regards to sales, so they have to find a way to cater to developers somehow, and they do so by having very low standards.

Nine Dots Studios Inc are currently working on a side scrolling platformer called ‘Brand’ which you will be very unsurprised to discover will only be released on the Xbox 360 Indie channel.

A quick look at the best selling Indie games on Xbox 360 in the UK reveals the top three places being taken by Minecraft rip offs and at number four is ‘Angry Fish’ – you can guess what title that looks like. A few places down we find a ‘game’ that makes prank phone calls.

What was that about ‘low standards’ on the PSN, Mr. Boucher-Vidal?

Source: http://www.thesixtha...mplete-failure/

:rofl:

[Guest xiphi]

There's no doubt the XBLIG section is loaded with crap, but isn't the argument about XBLA, instead?

[AbandonedTrolley]

There's no doubt the XBLIG section is loaded with crap, but isn't the argument about XBLA, instead?

PSN 'An Almost Complete Failure' and Team Meat Are 'Loud Crybabies,' says Developer

Posted September 30, 2011 by James Brightman

Sony has attacked Microsoft's treatment of developers, and while Team Meat (Super Meat Boy) might agree - noting that they got the short end of the stick from Microsoft - Zen Studios and other indies clearly have a different opinion. IndustryGamers has just heard from Guillaume Boucher-Vidal, Studio Manager at Nine Dots Studio Inc., which is currently working on a title called Brand. Boucher-Vidal doesn't think very highly of PSN or Team Meat.

"Microsoft's XBLA is very strict, and their technical requirements represent about 800 man hours from the programming team to adapt to. PSN doesn't have those kind of requirements, but at the same time, PSN is an almost complete failure in regards to sales, so they have to find a way to cater to developers somehow, and they do so by having very low standards," he commented.

"I've quit Activision a few months ago and I am now working on a game that will be submitted on either XBLIG or XBLA. My personal experience with them is very positive so far. There is no chance in hell that PlayStation would offer a platform that is as open as Xbox Live Indie Games. The test kits for PlayStation are also something way beyond what a start up could afford, so their accessibility is a moot point if you don't have significant funding. So while you have very strict requirements for XBLA, it's a very successful platform in terms of sales and consistency, and there's a lot of freedom on XBLIG."

As for the Team Meat controversy, Boucher-Vidal believes Sony's simply been trying to take advantage of the situation to make Microsoft look bad for developers.

"I think that the Super Meat Boy's team is just being loud crybabies and Sony wants to use their recent noise to stand out as the good guy. But among a lot of people I know in the indie community, SMB is perceived very negatively for their childish and egocentric behavior," he added.

Source: IndustryGamers

Depends really, it's the same argument from devs each time. Most will always defend the company that their exclusive is on and by being outspoken with imho a ridiculous claim, it gets them noticed.

[BajiRav]

Source: http://www.thesixtha...mplete-failure/ :rofl:

Huh? that is just stupid - why are you quoting something obviously wrong? or did you just jump the gun without thinking when you saw something pro-sony/ant-ms?

I will leave it to you to figure out what's wrong with your source (which obviously is ignorant in this post).

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Huh? that is just stupid - why are you quoting something obviously wrong? or did you just jump the gun without thinking when you saw something pro-sony/ant-ms?

I will leave it to you to figure out what's wrong with your source (which obviously is ignorant in this post).

I don't really care for the source, just what's said, it's funny considering the irony of the initial statement when applied to what the source is saying. Anyway, the link does lead to those titles mentioned - http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-GB/Games/XboxIndieGames

[rajputwarrior]

Huh? that is just stupid - why are you quoting something obviously wrong? or did you just jump the gun without thinking when you saw something pro-sony/ant-ms?

I will leave it to you to figure out what's wrong with your source (which obviously is ignorant in this post).

who cares if it came from a sony site.. look at what's there and where they source their stuff. you have three mincraft ripoffs and a angry birds ripoff taking the top spots in XBLIG and the guy is ****ing all over PSN for poor games...

[gigapixels Veteran]

Because he wasn't comparing the quality of XBLIG and PSN, he was comparing the quality of XBLA and PSN. He even said himself that there is much more freedom in XBLIG.

[bjoswald]

Super Meat Boy? Angry Birds? Sigh. I think we should worry about making better games rather than which network should host them.

[BajiRav]

I don't really care for the source, just what's said, it's funny considering the irony of the initial statement when applied to what the source is saying. Anyway, the link does lead to those titles mentioned - http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-GB/Games/XboxIndieGames

who cares if it came from a sony site.. look at what's there and where they source their stuff. you have three mincraft ripoffs and a angry birds ripoff taking the top spots in XBLIG and the guy is ****ing all over PSN for poor games...

lol, read below.

Because he wasn't comparing the quality of XBLIG and PSN, he was comparing the quality of XBLA and PSN. He even said himself that there is much more freedom in XBLIG.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Yeah but his is an indie game so it's kind of ironic the title he's publishing is going into a sea of questionable content. What he calls freedom for XBIG, he calls very low standards for PSN.

[soniqstylz]

Jesus **** people, he's comparing sales. Find me numbers, then stfu all of you.

[Azies]

PSN isn't a complete failure, and I actually really like PSN, had a great experience with them, I'd go and buy a card, plop the card on, shop, and so on.

[neoadorable]

i was surprised to find out all PSN codes are IP locked, including free DLC for games/special editions. this means as long as i work overseas i can't use any of that on my US account. i can't even play Resistance 3 online. that's not the way to do things now with the population becoming more and more mobile, Sony.