BF3 Machine from scratch (comments, advice, help)

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Stick with ASUS.

Because Z68 > P67

[ARchamps]

I have the P8P67 (non-LE) and its pretty great. UEFI Bios is really easy to navigate. It supports Crossfire, but not SLI so keep that in mind. It shouldn't matter since you are using AMD cards.

As I mentioned earlier, you likely aren't going to use the features offered on a Z68 board, so stick with P67 and save some $$ for other areas that can be upgraded.

[Girr]

What about this MSI board? It sports dual x16 PCI Express 2.0 slots. The P8P67 offers 1x16 and 1x4. Limiting a card in Crossfire to x4 may affect performance...

MSI P67A

(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130574)

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Limiting one card to x4 isn't a thing to do.

I'd say get the MSI P67A.

Yes, it costs extra dollars but you'll be able to get most out of your money.

[Girr]

Did a little bit of research on the subject of 16x16 vs 8x8 vs 16x4. There seems to be a noticeable difference using x4, but when comparing 16x16 and 8x8 or even 16x8 there was very little differences. Thus I am now looking into the following MSI P67 board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130583

[patseguin Global Moderator]

I had some QC issues on my initial Rampage board but Asus was very quick to rectify it with a replacement. I say Asus all the way. As far as Crossfire, if the board supports it, you're only concern is the CASE space for it. Would it make more sense for you to get a single card crossfire solution like the 6970?

[Girr]

Final line up:

Option A

Option B

These do not include the monitor which is an additional $230...

[patseguin Global Moderator]

I like option B way better.

[mollick2]

Just an FYI, motherboards will almost always come with a couple sata cables and if they are sli/crossfire compatible they normally come with the bridge.

Edit: also option B is the superior choice.

[Girr]

I like option B way better.

Edit: also option B is the superior choice.

Aw, but is it worth the extra $126? Almost no performance difference for BF3 or other games (Maybe 5fps max?) seems like a spendy difference and nothing to show for it. Still open for convincing if someone is up to it and presents a good argument/reason to get the i5

Just an FYI, motherboards will almost always come with a couple sata cables and if they are sli/crossfire compatible they normally come with the bridge.

I thought they would, but it is not included in the descriptions of the products... I would rather be safe and spend $15 on the cables just to make sure I get them, or else I'll have to go to a local store which marks up all their parts, especially the little stuff...

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

You could save some money by buying this monitor: http://www.newegg.co...al-_-24-236-059

Also, I'd go with option A. You won't benefit from using a Core i5 with Battlefield 3 so why spend the extra money? If you go with the monitor above for option A, you'd be saving $176.

Here's the breakdown:

Monitors: $230 - $180 = $50

Option A vs. Option B: $1020.39 - $894.40 = $125.99

Total savings: $175.99

You could use that money to buy two Radeon HD 6950s: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125385

Video cards (2x HD 6950 vs. 2x HD 6870): = $459.98 - $339.98 = $120

Subtract $10 from that because the HD 6950s come with crossfire bridges and you'll be paying $110 for a noticeable performance boost. And in the end, you'll be saving $65.99.

[PixilEyes]

You might want to wait until Monday (DEC 5). AMD has A huge announcement about the 7 series coming out. I don't know if its a paper launch or the actual hardware.

[Girr]

Thank you for the suggestion! I am sold in the idea if i wasn't so interested in a monitor with a high refresh rate like the one on my list (120hz). What exactly is the refresh rate of the ASUS monitor you linked to? I see several rates, but what is the correct one to go off of?

I guess i can ask this question now, does anyone have any experience gaming using a high refresh rate monitor (120hz) vs a standard rate (60hz)? I see a HUGE different when watching movies using a 120hz or 240hz TV and i would venture a guess that gaming would be noticable smoother as well.

Next note, if the refresh rate does make a noticable difference, how would it compare to the difference in GPU units upgrading from a 6870 to the 6970?

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

You might want to wait until Monday (DEC 5). AMD has A huge announcement about the 7 series coming out. I don't know if its a paper launch or the actual hardware.

I forgot about that. AMD may launch the HD 7000 series in January. We'll just have to wait and see.

Thank you for the suggestion! I am sold in the idea if i wasn't so interested in a monitor with a high refresh rate like the one on my list (120hz). What exactly is the refresh rate of the ASUS monitor you linked to? I see several rates, but what is the correct one to go off of?

I guess i can ask this question now, does anyone have any experience gaming using a high refresh rate monitor (120hz) vs a standard rate (60hz)? I see a HUGE different when watching movies using a 120hz or 240hz TV and i would venture a guess that gaming would be noticable smoother as well.

Next note, if the refresh rate does make a noticable difference, how would it compare to the difference in GPU units upgrading from a 6870 to the 6970?

It's 50~75 Hz. What you'll want to use is 60 Hz (or 59 Hz). As far as I'm aware, 120 Hz monitors are preferred over lower-Hz monitors because it's essentially "3D ready". If you use it with NVIDIA or AMD's 3D technology, the monitor will output higher quality images than a standard 60 Hz monitor. I personally don't think it's worth the extra money. Games look smooth enough already at 60 Hz. As a gamer, I think you should spend money on a better video card.

And to add to my post above, you'll get more performance in Battlefield 3 with 2x HD 6950s than 2x GTX 580s. The latter costs as much as $1000 on Newegg.com.

http://www.tomshardw...nce,3063-6.html

http://www.tomshardw...ce,3063-11.html

[Girr]

Yeah i meant the 6950 ^_^

About the refresh rate, it is not just for 3d readiness. You can visually see a huge difference. The other thing i have to mention is fps vs refresh rate. If your card is pumping out 100fps, but your card is limited to 60hz, wouldnt that mean you are limiting yourself to 60fps? Ive seen lower fps (30-40) displayed on high refresh rate tvs and the difference is incredible. Once again, i would tend to believe a combination of both high fps and high refresh rate would result in the best visual. I do not know for sure and i cannot find and comparisons or advice online that helps...

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Yeah i meant the 6950 ^_^

About the refresh rate, it is not just for 3d readiness. You can visually see a huge difference. The othe rhing i have to mention is fps vs refresh rate. If your card is oumping out 100fps, but your card is limited to 60hz, wouldnt that mean you are limiting yourself to 60fps? Ive seen lower fps (30-40) displayed on high refresh rate tvs and the sifference is incredible. Once again, i would tend to believe a combination of both high fps and high refresh rate would result in the best visual.

You're right. 120 Hz is better than 60 Hz but I still believe that it isn't worth the extra money. I think 60 FPS is the sweet spot when it comes to PC gaming. Anything higher would be a waste of performance. You'll still be able to distinguish between 60 FPS and 120 FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, but it'll be much smoother on a 120 Hz monitor. So no, you won't be limiting yourself to 60 FPS with a 60 Hz monitor.

[Girr]

You'll still be able to distinguish between 60 FPS and 120 FPS on a 60 Hz monitor, but it'll be much smoother on a 120 Hz monitor. So no, you won't be limiting yourself to 60 FPS with a 60 Hz monitor.

How can you see a difference if the minitor does not show it to you? This is where i am getting confused. If a card processes 100 frames in a second and sends that information to a monitor that refreshes its pixels only 60 times a second, how could you see the difference? I am not doubting, I would just like to know what i am missing.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

How csn you see a difference if the minitor does not show it to you? This is where i am getting confused. If a card processes 100frames in a second and senda that information to a monitor that refreshes its pixeks only 60 times a second, how could you see the difference? I am not doubting, I would just like to know whay i am missing.

I should have been a bit more specific. You notice it because the game is more responsive and any fast movement would have less motion blur. If you were to see two games running at 60 and 120 FPs on the same 60 Hz monitors side by side, you wouldn't notice a difference. However, if you were to move around you'd notice that the game running at 120 FPS feels more responsive and fluid. You'd also notice that there's less motion blur. As a side effect, you'll notice screen tearing because the monitor can't update the image fast enough to match the frame rate. Basically, two frames are shown at once which results in a tearing affect. It's most noticeable when you pan left and right (horizontally). Anyway, that's how I understand it. Of course, I may be wrong so if anyone knows better.. feel free to correct me.

[Snake89]

If u can hold off for your next system. Nvidia got the GK1xx PCIe 3.0 cards coming out around Q2 or Q3 2012.

The roadmap is found at http://www.geeks3d.com/20111126/nvidia-kepler-gpus-roadmap-gk107-gk106-gk104-gk110-and-gk112/

[Girr]

I will be sitting on this till january and will re-asses at that time. I dont see the new releases impacting prices very quickly, but i have been wrong in the past.

With that said, i will not be waiting thay long and i really dont see the need to for this machine.

[Girr]

I think the best option is to find something i can visually see or test to resolve the 60hz vs 120hz monitor problem. I will be stopping by a few stores to see what i can find out.

[Girr]

I stopped into a Best Buy store to talk with some of the Geeks and look at their 60Hz vs 120Hz side-by-side comparison. When I began talking to them about "refresh rate" for LCD monitors for computers specifically, they were quick to inform me that they are not rated at a Hz refresh rate. Computer monitors are rated by their response time (lower being better). With this information I did a little research and found that LCD displays do not even technically have a refresh rate; it is a fall-out of game design and CRT displays. The refresh rate found on monitors not is a conversion, or equivalent to a refresh rate. In other words, it does not really exist. Refresh rate is simulated by the monitor to meet the format that games run off, frames. So when you are watching a a Blu-Ray movie on a 120hz HDTV, you are really seeing a smooth image because the frames are transitioned faster because the response time of the pixels is faster. You are watching something the is ~30fps on a display that transitions much faster than that, thus the smooth image. However, for games you will see very little difference in performance.

All this info was dug up through the link below. You have to scroll a ways down to the section "Response Times: How Fast is Fast Enough?"

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/display_myths_shattered?page=0,2

Note that he also studies that manufacture response times are greatly exaggerated when compared to real-world response times. He tested a HDTV rated by the manufacture at 4ms. His experiment showed that the real-world rate was closer to 60ms...

Anyway, this was what I came up with fairly quick. I will look into the topic more, but right now I am diggin' your suggestions Anaron!

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

That was an interesting read. Thanks for posting it. Here's a quote from another article linked in the one you posted:

As a result our bottom line recommendations are? If you stick with the mid to top tier models from the reputable brands, you should ignore Response Time specifications, not worry about LCD motion blur, and don?t spend extra for 120 Hz or higher refresh rates, strobed LED backlighting, or advanced motion blur processing.

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Response_Time_ShootOut.htm

[Girr]

So is trusting feedback and reviews the only way to find a high quality, affordable monitor? Other than resolution and brand names?

[Muhammad Farrukh]

So is trusting feedback and reviews the only way to find a high quality, affordable monitor? Other than resolution and brand names?

That is the only way.

Plus don't ever buy a thing just because it's got a couple of positive feedback comments and reviews. Do a complete research about it