50 replies to this topic

[DirtyLarry]

BudMan, on 11 February 2012 - 12:15, said:

Some details -- is your phone dhcp or static. Try setting it as static - does that fix it?

Are you wep or wpa, wpa2

So event 2 -- details.. No internet, does that mean you could not ping your router by iP, your pc was not working.. Did it have an IP, did it say it was disconnected from the wireless?

So in event 2 you never reset anything -- just left and then reconnected.

How do you have this other wireless network setup - as AP or are you double natting through the same internet connection. Is it different SSID, is it different security, if an access point then dhcp would be still off your main router. Or if your double natting its going to be second wireless having its own dchp. What are the scopes. For all I know you got a double nat going on with same network ip range?

In event 2 did your phone just then connect? Other than a blip in your connection I don't see how your phone would be to blame for that? And since you did not have to reset the router - or did you? Then its not a crash. Did your wireless phone ring - did the wife turn on the microwave when you lost connection?

All good questions. Let me see if I can answer them.

Have not tried assigning my iPhone with a Static IP. Will do that today.
WPA2
First question about Event 2, never looked at all of that.
Exactly, never reset anything, just left the network, went back in, and it was working.

And again admittedly, I am not an networking expert, far from it, but believe I have it set up as an Access Point.
Have it setup with a Static IP.
Subnet is 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway is 192.168.1.1
Different SSID
Repeater Mode is disabled
Channel is 11 as I used an app called iStumblr for my Macbook and at the time that was an unused channel.
WDS Mode is disabled
Security is also WPA2
That is what I know about it. I had to refer to some documentation on the Support forums of TrendNET to get it up and running like that. I tried it as a repeater at one point, and it seemed to have degrade my overall connection pretty dramatically.

In Event 2, was not aware of what the iPhone was doing, it was all related to my Macbook Pro. Believe iPhone stayed connected.

[+BudMan]

As to it being an AP, where is the cable connected from router 1? Did you turn off dhcp on router2? Sounds like you setup static IP on the WAN?? Because lan IP is always static on any router. So that does not seem like AP to me.

Also you say its a different SSID? - not something you would do with an AP setup normally.

If you router does not have AP mode, to use it as AP you would connect it to your first router using a LAN port of the 2nd router. You would change the lan IP of the AP router to be on the same network as your 1st router. dhcp server would be off on the 2nd router using as AP. Wan interface on router used as AP is normally not used.

Only if it has AP mode where wan is added to the lan/wifi bridge would you be able to use it - and if you have this mode it might by default turn off dhcp server on this device. Maybe not?

You were not doing anything on the macbook pro that would cause an issue where you? It was not entering the network.. So your wireless network blipped -- if you have no event to relate to that.. Like I said maybe your wireless phone rang? Maybe your wife was cooking some popcorn. Maybe someone was driving by and was trying to hack you? There are like a freaking hundred things that could cause wireless network to blip.. Interference from wireless networks around you.

What SSID are you using? Are there any in the area that are the same? SSID should be UNIQUE, and it should be broadcast!!! Hiding provides NOTHING and just makes accessing your network harder, and can cause all kinds of problems.

We are squeaking out little tiny tidbits of info here - so we are on the right track. But you have given us nothing to work other than a odd wireless glitch.. Which yeah sorry to say it happens now and then no matter what how stable of router you have.

If you think its your iphone doing it.. Then you should be able to repeat that over and over again. So you say when you come home your iphone kills your wifi. ok then why does it not kill it after you have connected? Or does it -- disconnect your phone and then reconnect it to your wireless.. Does it reset your wifes vpn?

Then maybe it was a dupe ip from before that your phone had if doesn't do it on disconnect and reconnect. Need to know what IPs your devices where all using before, etc..

When it happens again -- what is actually wrong?? Is your pcs saying they are not connected to the wireless? Are they saying limited connectivity? Look at their IPs -- do they have any? Can you ping the router ip? your gateway from ipconfig /all on windows box, mac you can view from term and netstat -r will give you your gateway, etc.

What is your lease times if you have an IP, even just generally look at your windows pc now ipconfig /all what does it show for your dhcp lease? Is it hours, or days? When you have a problem again did it match up to end of lease or 50% mark of lease?

Details, Details, Details! You need to know the actual symptoms of what is happening and you need to understand what is going on with the phone if you believe its that. Just because you walk in the house and your wife says network is not working does not mean its your phone.. Could of been down for few minutes and you just walked in. If was your phone then you should be able to duplicate the problem with just disconnect and reconnect -- or just walking out of range with it and then back into range, etc.

Or change its IP to static that clearly does not conflict with anything on your current network, or setup a reservation so there is no way for it to get anything other than 1 specific IP. Some threads - which not sure are legit or not suggested that the way macs come back onto a network that they had a dhcp IP before don't verify that they can have that lease again and just start using the IP. With some routers that do not maintain lease records for long periods could reassign this IP to different device. So understanding your lease time could help in figuring out if this is the problem. But as I said before unless your phone like took the ip of the router -- it should not cause an issue with anything other than the device that it stepped on.

[Rob van Walbeek]

I hope you all do not mind that I reopen this topic. Was there a solution the problem found? If yes, what turned out to be the solution?

We have a similar problem as DirtyLarry has on our office network. It took us quite a long time to figure out the problem was related to an iPhone connecting to the network. (not just wifi goes down, LAN aswell)

The problem is that our internet service interupts (sometimes up to multiple times per hour), so at first we had a long diagnostic track by our ISP-company. Early on it was already clear that the modem/router started to reboot, but at first the phoneline was blaimed. Interference on the phoneline would cause the ADSL modem to reset itself if the interference would get to high. It took quite some time to trace the problem to the WiFi Access point, but finally it was clear the Access point causes the modem/router to reboot, thus loosing all internet connections.

With the accesspoint taken offline the problems were over (wifi on the modem/router has been disabled). No Wifi connection were available at that point. After some more days of making sure the connection was stable now, we started one by one connecting devices to the network by wifi, by starting with the AP without any connections, each with enough time in between to make sure connection remained stable (approx 4 hours between each device, 2 per day).

Finaly it turned out the network crashed with the connection of an iPhone. It took no longer than 5 minutes for the network to fail after the iPhone connected.

At first we blaimed the AP (D-Link DAP2553): probably it had something to do with the communication between this D-Link and the iPhone, since the D-Link was a relatively new addition to our network (approx 8 months). We have had this network running for 3 years without any problem and also with iPhones connected thtough WiFi with no problems so we figured the newest addition would cause the conflict. But after replacing the D-Link with our old Linksys WAP54G the problem remained: with the iPhone being able to make a connection to the wireless network the router reboots itself at any given time. At the moment we are trying Wifi through a Linksys WAP-610N AP and still the same issues when a iphone is connected.

So now, three months after our initial problems started (we can specificly date this problem: it started on July 12th. Before that time we had a sporadic drop in connection, but starting that thursday our connection was higly erratic) we finaly know for sure the problem is the (either, we have 3 in our network) iphone and not the Ap, router or any other Wifi devices.

Some data about our network setup.

• ADSL connection through modem/router, which runs 1 UTP to a switch from were LAN connections are dived over our offices. Through a wall outlet we have connected an AP through LAN.
  
• SSID is broadcasting and unique on a channel that is not used. We have tried different SSID's, same problem.
  
• Wifi security is WPA2 (personall)
  
• Modem/Router is DHCP server in internal range (192.168.1.xxx)
  
• 2 of the 3 iphones are Iphone 4S's, that run on iOS 5.1. The 3rd iphone is an older iphone 3, do not know the iOS version but am fairly sure the connection also drops by connection just this iPhone.
  
• Currently I have MAC-filtering enabled on the AP to make sure the Iphones cannot connect, even if they have the password for the wifi network (only started using this about 1 month ago, so this is not the problem)
  
• The IP addresses of most devices are not static. But my administrator-page of the modem/router shows the device connected, their MAC addresses and their IP's, so I am sure there are no duplicated. Also my virusscan/firewall program (Eset Smart Security) pops up a warning if duplicate IP addresses are present in the network. We have had that happen with a Samsung phone, but this never had causes a disruption of the entire network.
  
• We are able to repeat the problem over and over. Just have the iphone connect and wait an hour. Additional remark what we have noticed this morning but it may be nothing: with 1 iphone 4S on the wifi network and placing it on the desk-charger, the internet connection of the network dropped. Placing it at the charger again, again caused the connection to drop. This requires further testing. But we had also a connection dropped when the iphone received a whatsapp message, or just by plain doing nothing (that we can see at least). When connecting, everything appears fine, connection does not drop at that instance...
  
• DCHP lease (checked on my desktop) was given this morning when booting up and expires just under 26 years from now (!). Not a problem here I would assume, since all computers are powered down in the evening and the cellphones return home with their owners so get disconnected aswell.

On my desktop terminal (LAN connection) I have the program "servers alive" running continuously (starting after we learned the problem was with the AP and not the ISP, so this is not the cause) which I have setup to ping three different website, our ISP's DNS-IP and the standard local gateway (modem/router). This way I monitor the connection and get notified when connection is lost. I have it set up to send 5 ping packages every 10sec to the different IP-addresses. This is what I have learned so far:

When I get notice connection is down (pings do not reach a remote website's IP), all other checks turn 'red' aswell. (3 websites and the DNS). The ping to the gateway IP stays active. I have not timed this exaclty but after approx 20 seconds the gateway ping turns 'red' also (ping to gateway fails). After this it takes somewhere between 1 and 2 minutes for the ping to gateway to succeed again (in this time the modem is rebooting, I have checked, and thus not able to return a ping request). After the gateway turn 'green' again in the checkprogram, it takes approx 15 seconds for all other websites are 'green' again, mening the connection to the internet is up again (all times mentioned above are approximate, since ping-command are send every 10 seconds).

So far, we have not come closer to a solution yet. We hope you all have, since no further remarks were made on this thread. Usualy this means the problem was resolved.

[LilSnoop40]

my mother says the same thing. she purchased an iphone 4 and an ipad 1 about 1-2 years ago. i replaced her old router with a newer cisco one. she keeps telling me that she has to power on and off the router a few times a day. cause her ipad 1 looses connection. after a power down of the router its good for while. i didn't believe her but now that i see other people r having this same issue i will go assign static ip's to here devices. i have 2 iphones and 2 ipad 2's on my network at home along with a bunch of other things and i have no issues. but i have them all added in into the reservation table by mac and assigned address to them. i will try this on her network and see how it works for her.

Thanks

[Rob van Walbeek]

LilSnoop, please let me know if this worked and how to accomplish this. A reservation table is probably what I have now (mac address filtering) or is it not? But you mentioned you have assigned an address to them. I do not know what you mean by this and therefore am unable to try this myself.

But yes, probably your mom experiences the same. Connection is probably lost, due to the router rebooting itself (so if she does not power it down it should be okay after a minute or two).

But I am anxious to know if this could be a solution.

I am NOT anxious to set static IP's addressess for the iPhone's, since they are employee own phones. With static IP's they cannot join their home- or other networks. Unless you are able to assign a static IP for a specific SSID which I do not think is possible.

Just tried an iPad2 with iOS 4.3 and also the connection failed within 5 minutes. It is 100% certain the Apple devices. Other brand (android) phones and laptops can connect and do not interupt connection.

[LilSnoop40]

on my cisco E4200, this is everything on my network, i have entered everything by mac address (i erased all the mac addresses) then assigned a ip to all of them. i have never lost connectivity or had conflicts. i will try this at my parent today hopefully to see if this fixes her issue.



Thanks

[Tech Greek]

DirtyLarry, on 09 February 2012 - 23:49, said:

her work laptop is connected to a VPN through my Wireless Network.

This immediatly jumped out at me, VPN is a heavy heavy hitter. Is QoS/WMM enabled on the router?

[Alphanumeric]

I had a similar problem. The internet on my PC or laptop would grind to a halt whenever an Apple device was turned on. We have 2 iPads, 1 iPhone and 1 iPod Touch connected to my wireless network.

After weeks of testing I solved the issue.................problem was caused due to the notifications on the apps on the Apple devices.

[Rob van Walbeek]

LilSnoop40, on 27 September 2012 - 11:42, said:

on my cisco E4200, this is everything on my network, i have entered everything by mac address (i erased all the mac addresses) then assigned a ip to all of them. i have never lost connectivity or had conflicts. i will try this at my parent today hopefully to see if this fixes her issue.

Did this have any effect at your mom's lil'snoop? I have checked my router (thompson TG789vn with crap ISP firmware ) but there seems nothing to be addressed directly. The only thing that may be entered is "Always same IP' once the device is connected. I cannot enter an IP address for a device in my router directly.

But if it is certain this is the solution I am happy to buy a cisco router and hook it up after my modem router (eventhough only 1 port is utilized. From that one port the connection goes to a 24port Cisco Catalyst 2960 Switch)

Alphanumeric, on 27 September 2012 - 13:36, said:

After weeks of testing I solved the issue.................problem was caused due to the notifications on the apps on the Apple devices.

How is this to be resolved. I am not an Apple user myself. What instructions do I need to give the 3 iPhone users in the office?

Cheers!

[LilSnoop40]

ok, after assigning ip's on the network for there devices my mom has said that the problem is still on going. the router is new, i said we can buy a stronger, newer router and see if it fixes it... at this point not sure what else to do.

[Rob van Walbeek]

Alphanumeric, on 27 September 2012 - 13:36, said:

problem was caused due to the notifications on the apps on the Apple devices.

Unfortunately this was not the solution. Turning all notifications off on one iPhone still causes the network to crash again after connecting to wifi.

[Nashy]

My housemate's iPhone causes the WiFi here to go stupid and stop working on all other devices until I reboot the router. Have you attempted changing the wireless channel? It didn't help me, but worth a shot.

My solution was to MAC ban him. Break my wireless? You don't get wireless access.

[Rob van Walbeek]

Rob van Walbeek, on 05 October 2012 - 09:29, said:

Unfortunately this was not the solution. Turning all notifications off on one iPhone still causes the network to crash again after connecting to wifi.

Turns out there are still apps that send notifications on the iphone, eventhough notifictions are switched off in settings. For these apps we need to switch notifications off in the app manually. We keep this under advicement and will check again next week, once we are sure there are no more apps serving notifications on the iphone.

Nashy, on 05 October 2012 - 09:38, said:

My housemate's iPhone causes the WiFi here to go stupid and stop working on all other devices until I reboot the router. Have you attempted changing the wireless channel? It didn't help me, but worth a shot.

Yes, we have switched wifi channels; no solution there.

Nashy, on 05 October 2012 - 09:38, said:

My solution was to MAC ban him. Break my wireless? You don't get wireless access.

We are doing that now until we find the solution. But that is sort of like curing the disease by killing the patient.

[Michael Urvan]

For those of you having problems with your wireless network with multiple clients, especially after adding tablets or iphones here are some possible solutions:

You can try setting the DHCP server in your router to Start IP Assignment with something like xxx.xxx.0.100 and then you simply go on the client PC, phone, tablet, and set it to "Static" IP address and enter the IP address there. Recent android builds (tablets, phones) were found to have serious problems using DHCP auto assignment. Keep the IP addresses in a document or on a notepad like LilSnoop40 has done. You do NOT have to figure out how to do this in your router in order to use static IPs, the only requirement is that you set the "Starting IP" in the router to be xxx.xxx.xxx.100 so that the automatic DHCP assignment begins beyond your own range of self-assigned IPs so the router doesn't try to use them. Every router supports setting the "Starting DHCP IP address" and it should be very easy to find. You can also turn off the DHCP Server option in your router completely and go with static IPs on everything. Note that when using static IPs you need to know/enter the Gateway IP (the IP of the router, usually 192.168.xxx.1 or 10.0.xxx.1) and the DNS server IPs from your local internet provider. If you want, you could also use Google's public primary DNS server IPs which is 8.8.8.8

One last solution but a little more technical (and not supported yet by a lot of routers) is to create an additional VLAN with a different SSID and use that or the tablets and phones and turn on AP isolation so that they can't do anything except use the internet (WAN).

Remember that you can always just buy another router for the tablets and phone for $20-40. It's a cheap solution. Phones and tablets generally don't need any access to your LAN other than internet so this works fine. You have to read a little about how to add a second access point to your network though.

[Shadrack]

Michael Urvan, on 18 October 2012 - 13:22, said:

For those of you having problems with your wireless network with multiple clients, especially after adding tablets or iphones here are some possible solutions:

You can try setting the DHCP server in your router to Start IP Assignment with something like xxx.xxx.0.100 and then you simply go on the client PC, phone, tablet, and set it to "Static" IP address and enter the IP address there. Recent android builds (tablets, phones) were found to have serious problems using DHCP auto assignment.

We've certainly come across this in my house. There are quite a few smartphones, ipods, ipads, kindle fires, laptops just between my fiance, her kids, and me. If you have a crappy DHCP server you end up with conflicting IP addresses that can cause all kinds of issues. Since installing DD-WRT and making DHCP assignments, all those problems went away. I'm seeing 30+ day up-time these days. I don't think DHCP was Dirty Larry's problem though.