37 replies to this topic

[Rappy]

Quote

On May 26th at UFC 146 in Las Vegas, Nevada at the MGM Grand Garden Arena, one weight class will take center stage, with an entire pay-per-view card dedicated to their cagefighting combat: the heavyweights. To save time on the weigh-ins, let’s just agree that these guys on the main slate of Octagon action are big - real big. Besides their gargantuan size, it’s a new era of top competition in the UFC, as these scale-tippers are agile, mobile, versatile, and, most importantly, hostile. Simply put, if you like heavyweights, you’ll love UFC 146.

From top to bottom, it’s a who’s who of colossal knockout artists and, arguably, the best and bulkiest submission specialist in UFC history. To set the tone for these plus-sized fighting festivities, the hard-hitting Antonio “Bigfoot” Silva will make his Octagon debut against fan favorite fist-bombardier Roy “Big Country” Nelson. Next up, a contest between two of the most dynamic fighters in the division who are also former UFC champions: Cain Velasquez vs. Frank Mir. Lastly, in the main event, kickboxing sensation Alistair Overeem takes aim at the title against current heavyweight king Junior “Cigano” dos Santos.

uk.ufc.com/news/The-Heavyweights-are-coming-to-Vegas-in-May

[Zoom7000]

Looks like you're gonna have to edit the thread title Rappy.

Alistair you utter tool! Screwed all the fans out of a fight they were looking forward to!

[Salutary7]

"It felt like I got kicked by a horse" --Brock Lesnar

I don't really see dos Santos winning, but I'm sure he'll at least put on a show.

[Rappy]

Zoom7000, on 04 April 2012 - 22:50, said:

Looks like you're gonna have to edit the thread title Rappy.

Alistair you utter tool! Screwed all the fans out of a fight they were looking forward to!

When we know new opponent I'll edit

[Bun-Bun]

I'm thinking Mir. Pretty much everyone is. Either him or Mike Russow

[Salutary7]

Wow.. Overeem had 14:1 T/E ratio...

The top fighters likely all use something questionable to get an edge in training just as in, say, cycling, but this is just carelessness.

[dippednbutter]

Junior would have rocked Reem anyways, test or no test. What a shame Alistair. This was such a great card. Mir vs Dos is just not doing it for me.

[Bun-Bun]

Salutary7, on 05 April 2012 - 20:33, said:

Wow.. Overeem had 14:1 T/E ratio...

The top fighters likely all use something questionable to get an edge in training just as in, say, cycling, but this is just carelessness.

Define questionable. I really doubt that it's as prevalent as you want to make it believe in the lower weighclasses. HW maybe, but I would require a considerable ammount of proof to even suspect that a guy like Aldo, who endures a brutal cut, would use something to pack even more muscle into his frame. Using protein powders and that kind of stuff to help had bulk isn't remotely the same as juicing with HGH or designer steroids. Overeem is a very proeminent case because he's always been suspected of steroid use because of the imense ammount of muscle he put on in a very short ammount of time. Also am I correct in my interpretation that you're not mad at him for juicing but just for getting caught? That's crazy and really bad for the future of MMA as a legitimate sport.

dippednbutter, on 05 April 2012 - 20:40, said:

Junior would have rocked Reem anyways, test or no test. What a shame Alistair. This was such a great card. Mir vs Dos is just not doing it for me.

What about JDS vs Mark Hunt? Or even better, JDS vs Fedor? Hahaha, that would break records... and Fedor's orbitals probably.

[dippednbutter]

Bun-Bun, on 05 April 2012 - 21:44, said:

What about JDS vs Mark Hunt? Or even better, JDS vs Fedor? Hahaha, that would break records... and Fedor's orbitals probably.

I heard some folks were throwing Hunt into the mix but not sure if he is deserving of it. Might be a good match though I just don't see Hunt being that big of a threat. Fedor might get retired. Sapp? lmao

[Salutary7]

Bun-Bun, on 05 April 2012 - 21:44, said:

Define questionable. I really doubt that it's as prevalent as you want to make it believe in the lower weighclasses. HW maybe, but I would require a considerable ammount of proof to even suspect that a guy like Aldo, who endures a brutal cut, would use something to pack even more muscle into his frame. Using protein powders and that kind of stuff to help had bulk isn't remotely the same as juicing with HGH or designer steroids. Overeem is a very proeminent case because he's always been suspected of steroid use because of the imense ammount of muscle he put on in a very short ammount of time. Also am I correct in my interpretation that you're not mad at him for juicing but just for getting caught? That's crazy and really bad for the future of MMA as a legitimate sport.

Questionable? Not just steroids, anything that's banned... HGH, IGF-1, certain stimulants, diuretics, EPO, RBC transfusions, prohormones, painkillers, and so on. But juicing isn't just about muscle mass, you know. The sport of MMA, just like many others, is one that requires superior recovery. This is recovery during training and recovery during competition. Testosterone just happens to be better than perhaps anything else. This is why it's such a huge deal in cycling, even though those dudes only weigh 150 lbs and don't want to be huge.

It's just an unfortunate reality that many will turn to anabolics or other substances because of the clear advantage they provide in certain areas. For many people (definitely not everyone!) as long as they pass the tests, that's all that matters. So no, I'm not really upset to find out Overeem was juicing. I'm upset that he was so bold and careless about it.

[Bun-Bun]

dippednbutter, on 05 April 2012 - 21:51, said:

I heard some folks were throwing Hunt into the mix but not sure if he is deserving of it. Might be a good match though I just don't see Hunt being that big of a threat. Fedor might get retired. Sapp? lmao

Hunt is the comedy "astro-turf" option. Mike Russow is on a 4 fight winning streak (one more than Hunt) and we don't see them throwing his name in there.
As for Fedor... well, everyone saw the JDS vs Carwin fight (and if they didn't, they should).
Bob "The Tap" Sapp is fighting Mariusz Pudzianowski at KSW XIX. And then he's fighting Soa Palelei, who's probably going to beat seven shades of **** out of him (unless Sapp taps right after the opening bell, which is very likely). He's 34 but so is Matt Mitrione. The UFC should bring him over for a couple of fights.

[dippednbutter]

Bun-Bun, on 05 April 2012 - 23:38, said:

Hunt is the comedy "astro-turf" option. Mike Russow is on a 4 fight winning streak (one more than Hunt) and we don't see them throwing his name in there.
As for Fedor... well, everyone saw the JDS vs Carwin fight (and if they didn't, they should).
Bob "The Tap" Sapp is fighting Mariusz Pudzianowski at KSW XIX. And then he's fighting Soa Palelei, who's probably going to beat seven shades of **** out of him (unless Sapp taps right after the opening bell, which is very likely). He's 34 but so is Matt Mitrione. The UFC should bring him over for a couple of fights.

I thought he did fight in the UFC at one point. Not sure who he has been beating lately.

[Bun-Bun]

Salutary7, on 05 April 2012 - 23:03, said:

Questionable? Not just steroids, anything that's banned... HGH, IGF-1, certain stimulants, diuretics, EPO, RBC transfusions, prohormones, painkillers, and so on. But juicing isn't just about muscle mass, you know. The sport of MMA, just like many others, is one that requires superior recovery. This is recovery during training and recovery during competition. Testosterone just happens to be better than perhaps anything else. This is why it's such a huge deal in cycling, even though those dudes only weigh 150 lbs and don't want to be huge.

It's just an unfortunate reality that many will turn to anabolics or other substances because of the clear advantage they provide in certain areas. For many people (definitely not everyone!) as long as they pass the tests, that's all that matters. So no, I'm not really upset to find out Overeem was juicing. I'm upset that he was so bold and careless about it.

The recovery issue isn't as pronounced as other sports. It's not like in the NFL where every week you have a game. A fighter who fights 4 times in a year is an anomaly. Jon Jones is one of those cases. Donald Cerrone fought 4 times as well. But most of the other guys fight twice a year if they're lucky. Most guys keep fit all year long and ramp it up with a training camp leading up to the fight. Taking that into consideration, there isn't a clear edge in using most of the products listed for recovery sake unless it's a debilitating injury that happened during that camp, like what happened to Thiago Silva. Instead of losing the chance to make some money, he took a gamble and used some steroids to help his recovery along. Leben was busted for oxycodone. It's not like in the Tour where you have to bike for hundreds of km a day and everyone was filled to the gills with EPO.

Altough I don't think this is a prevalent issue within the UFC roster (maybe 5% of all fighters under contract), I would support the implementation of WADA level protocols and some kind of wellness policy in the UFC (like the WWE has).

One just has to look at most HW fighters around. Ubereem weighed in at 265, pretty much solid muscle with no body fat. Pat Barry weighs in at 242 and looks like a tub of lard.

[Bun-Bun]

dippednbutter, on 05 April 2012 - 23:46, said:

I thought he did fight in the UFC at one point. Not sure who he has been beating lately.

Mostly guys with losing records but he hits like a freight train and is a clear cut HW (1,93m, 280lb) unlike Pat Barry, who at 1,80m should really get his ass down to LHW. Lavar Johnson is going to beat the brakes off of him at UFC on FOX 3.
Still, he has a pretty decent record for a HW at 15-3 and is on a 5 fight winning streak. The UFC gave Rob Broughton a break, so why not him?

[Salutary7]

Bun-Bun, on 05 April 2012 - 23:59, said:

The recovery issue isn't as pronounced as other sports. It's not like in the NFL where every week you have a game. A fighter who fights 4 times in a year is an anomaly. Jon Jones is one of those cases. Donald Cerrone fought 4 times as well. But most of the other guys fight twice a year if they're lucky. Most guys keep fit all year long and ramp it up with a training camp leading up to the fight. Taking that into consideration, there isn't a clear edge in using most of the products listed for recovery sake unless it's a debilitating injury that happened during that camp, like what happened to Thiago Silva. Instead of losing the chance to make some money, he took a gamble and used some steroids to help his recovery along. Leben was busted for oxycodone. It's not like in the Tour where you have to bike for hundreds of km a day and everyone was filled to the gills with EPO.

Altough I don't think this is a prevalent issue within the UFC roster (maybe 5% of all fighters under contract), I would support the implementation of WADA level protocols and some kind of wellness policy in the UFC (like the WWE has).

One just has to look at most HW fighters around. Ubereem weighed in at 265, pretty much solid muscle with no body fat. Pat Barry weighs in at 242 and looks like a tub of lard.

I'm not sure why you would say most of those things don't give them an edge in training and, subsequently, competition. Training in the months leading up to a fight is brtual. A little Deca is like magic for nagging joint injuries. IGF-1 improves athletic ability in a number of ways. EPO oxygenates tissues like nothing else. There are plenty of benefits to each substance, as well as risks. Fighters risk their health and reputation by using them because they work, but being realistic, the risk to their health is much greater every time they step into the ring and winning can mean the difference between getting the big contract or not.

To make matters worse, state commissions sometimes don't even do strict urine tests for doping, let alone checking the blood. Even though some people still get caught, the World Anti-Doping Agency has consistently said UFC's policies on the matter are a joke.

So why do you say 95% of fighters wouldn't touch anything? Why do people in the business occasionally come out say most fighters are doping? Again, I don't want to dismiss the legitimacy of the sport. They don't all choose the juice. For those that do, there is some testing and that alone is enough to limit their options. I'd personally want a clean sport, but that's just not the reality right now.