256 posts in this topic

Posted

[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1358904057' post='595471914']
Don't rule out Netflix and Hulu. Streaming has become a huge part of media centers and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft abandoned physical media entirely seeing as they have been hinting at that for a very long time. Blu-Ray, while the new standard, hasn't overtaken DVD's as completely as they could have. Even if blu-ray players are low cost now they have yet to move beyond movies and PS3's (PC's still stick with DVD's even now). I wonder if Blu-Ray will survive the next five years, tbh.
[/quote]Netflix and Hulu is great in the US, okay in a few other countries, and all but nonexistent in the rest.
Additionally it requires another subscription, and loads of bandwidth..

Trust me.. if MS made a console that required you to have download Everything, they might do well in some markets, but they would be writing off whole others. All they would be doing is shooting themselves in the foot. There would be almost no benefit, and they would lose whole markets of people who don't have broadband, have retarded caps, who don't wanna pay for XBL, etc.

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[quote name='Ryoken' timestamp='1358915009' post='595472304']
Netflix and Hulu is great in the US, okay in a few other countries, and all but nonexistent in the rest.
Additionally it requires another subscription, and loads of bandwidth..

Trust me.. if MS made a console that required you to have download Everything, they might do well in some markets, but they would be writing off whole others. All they would be doing is shooting themselves in the foot. There would be almost no benefit, and they would lose whole markets of people who don't have broadband, have retarded caps, who don't wanna pay for XBL, etc.
[/quote]
Not saying they will go download only, but there is no reason to use Blu-Ray outside of capacity. Blu-Ray has not dominated the media market like it could have. So far only the PS3 and movies use it as a medium. So if you think about it only 1/3 of half the gaming market uses Blu-Ray for media (PC's don't use it either).

I also don't think Blu-Ray is necessary for a multimedia device, and especially not a gaming device. They could just as easily have an HDMI input that accepts a Blu-Ray player output rather than stick the drive in the system. For those that aren't going to download anything they can either continue to use DVD's or use a different storage medium such as flash memory or high capacity media cards (SD, SDHC, etc). I'd prefer the latter specifically because it makes the console quieter, games will load faster and the console can be much, much smaller.

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1358916257' post='595472320']
Not saying they will go download only, but there is no reason to use Blu-Ray outside of capacity. Blu-Ray has not dominated the media market like it could have. So far only the PS3 and movies use it as a medium. So if you think about it only 1/3 of half the gaming market uses Blu-Ray for media (PC's don't use it either).

I also don't think Blu-Ray is necessary for a multimedia device, and especially not a gaming device. They could just as easily have an HDMI input that accepts a Blu-Ray player output rather than stick the drive in the system. For those that aren't going to download anything they can either continue to use DVD's or use a different storage medium such as flash memory or high capacity media cards (SD, SDHC, etc). I'd prefer the latter specifically because it makes the console quieter, games will load faster and the console can be much, much smaller.
[/quote]

Jesus do people STILL believe the next xbox won't come with either Blu-Ray or a high density optical disc? They just make sense. They cost peanuts to produce and a Blu-Ray drive is dirt cheap and has economies of scale going for it. It'd be stupid to use something else. What is it with you and hating Blu-Ray? It's the prevalent high capacity optical disc format currently available. Microsoft used DVD, did they not? Sony helped develop that. Memory cards that are 32GB cost two orders of magnitude more than an optical disc. Why throw away profits needlessly?

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[quote name='mrp04' timestamp='1358916726' post='595472326']
Jesus do people STILL believe the next xbox won't come with either Blu-Ray or a high density optical disc? They just make sense. They cost peanuts to produce and a Blu-Ray drive is dirt cheap and has economies of scale going for it. It'd be stupid to use something else. What is it with you and hating Blu-Ray? It's the prevalent high capacity optical disc format currently available. Microsoft used DVD, did they not? Sony helped develop that. Memory cards that are 32GB cost two orders of magnitude more than an optical disc. Why throw away profits needlessly?
[/quote]
Actually, after doing the math some time ago the difference in price between a Blu-Ray disc and Flash Drive of similar capacity was cents. I see no reason to use a medium that is 1) slower 2) produces more heat 3) uses more moving parts 4) takes up 10-20x the space 5) more susceptible to wear and tear 6) and finally uses more power.

Nintendo has been successfully using cartidge media for its 3DS, DS and so on for a while. I see no reason why optical media is superior to media cards/flash outside the fact that there are more facilities in place to produce optical discs. Its not about hating Blu-Ray, its about understanding that [i]if[/i] we decided to make the change to some form of solid state media like a flash or media card they would not only be better in many ways as listed above, but they would be scaleable. Producers could use between 512MB and 50GB on a single card rather than having a 50GB disc that only ends up having half of the capacity used.

While we may see a player in the next xbox, I really don't see why. I think the next xbox is about being a media hub, not necessarily a media player. Iirc, media centers have shifted from being the all-in-one to being the central port for all your devices.

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1358924417' post='595472430']
Actually, after doing the math some time ago the difference in price between a Blu-Ray disc and Flash Drive of similar capacity was cents. I see no reason to use a medium that is 1) slower 2) produces more heat 3) uses more moving parts 4) takes up 10-20x the space 5) more susceptible to wear and tear 6) and finally uses more power.
[/quote]

Wait, what? Where is this math that shows blu-rays and flash drives prices are only cents apart? Find that hard to believe.

[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1358924417' post='595472430']
Nintendo has been successfully using cartidge media for its 3DS, DS and so on for a while. I see no reason why optical media is superior to media cards/flash outside the fact that there are more facilities in place to produce optical discs.
[/quote]

What else could they use for a handheld? Are you going to make a handheld that can play blu-ray discs? lol.

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[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1358925308' post='595472440']
Wait, what? Where is this math that shows blu-rays and flash drives prices are only cents apart? Find that hard to believe.
[/quote]
I did the math myself. I looked up exactly how much each sells for and the difference in price per GB is marginal. But I couldn't find a very good reference for wholesale pricing on flash drives. So keeping that in mind, without using wholesale pricing for flash drives and just using bulk pricing they were mere cents apart in price per GB.
[quote]
What else could they use for a handheld? Are you going to make a handheld that can play blu-ray discs? lol.
[/quote]
UMD? Who says you can't use optical media for handhelds? Hell, a Blu-Ray version of UMD wouldn't be too farfetched considering Sony loves to invent their own proprietary everything.

I'm not saying that the next microsoft console won't have Blu-Ray. I just don't see any real advantage in doing so. Most people who want a Blu-Ray player have a player already or have a PS3. I don't think Microsoft should aim to replace $80 devices, rather they should aim to extend those devices (ie the possible HDMI input detailed in the other thread). The next xbox could possibly even handle your cable/satellite box with such an input, allowing you to use the dashboard over your TV. There are many more interesting possibilities out there that don't overlap with your current setup but augment them.

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1358924417' post='595472430']
Actually, after doing the math some time ago the difference in price between a Blu-Ray disc and Flash Drive of similar capacity was cents. I see no reason to use a medium that is 1) slower 2) produces more heat 3) uses more moving parts 4) takes up 10-20x the space 5) more susceptible to wear and tear 6) and finally uses more power.

Nintendo has been successfully using cartidge media for its 3DS, DS and so on for a while. I see no reason why optical media is superior to media cards/flash outside the fact that there are more facilities in place to produce optical discs. Its not about hating Blu-Ray, its about understanding that [i]if[/i] we decided to make the change to some form of solid state media like a flash or media card they would not only be better in many ways as listed above, but they would be scaleable. Producers could use between 512MB and 50GB on a single card rather than having a 50GB disc that only ends up having half of the capacity used.

While we may see a player in the next xbox, I really don't see why. I think the next xbox is about being a media hub, not necessarily a media player. Iirc, media centers have shifted from being the all-in-one to being the central port for all your devices.
[/quote]

There is no way 32GB of flash costs anywhere near a blu-ray disc, which cost around 20 cents to produce.

The DS cartridges didn't pass 256MB in size, and most 3DS games don't exceed 2GB, with most being 1GB. That's a long ways away from 32GB.

The next xbox will come with a mandatory hard drive. Just install the game to the drive if you want fast speeds and less noise. I'm sure they will support that feature since the 360 can do it. Hard drives have much faster sequential speed than any cheap flash they'd have to use to sell games on 32GB cards and they have 5GB of RAM availble to games to sequentially load data into.

Blu-ray drives and media have become so cheap it would be silly to not use it.

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[quote name='mrp04' timestamp='1358916726' post='595472326']
Jesus do people STILL believe the next xbox won't come with either Blu-Ray or a high density optical disc? They just make sense. They cost peanuts to produce and a Blu-Ray drive is dirt cheap and has economies of scale going for it. It'd be stupid to use something else. What is it with you and hating Blu-Ray? It's the prevalent high capacity optical disc format currently available. Microsoft used DVD, did they not? Sony helped develop that. Memory cards that are 32GB cost two orders of magnitude more than an optical disc. Why throw away profits needlessly?
[/quote]

A lot of people for some reason still look at is as "Sony's format/creation", and therefore somehow traitorous or a bad business decision for MS to "work" with Sony. Which of course to anyone who's researched the matter knows is not true, and any royalties needing paid go to a larger organization that Sony is only a mere part of, not owner of.

The newest PS3 Slim is almost at the

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1358926514' post='595472454']
I did the math myself. I looked up exactly how much each sells for and the difference in price per GB is marginal. But I couldn't find a very good reference for wholesale pricing on flash drives. So keeping that in mind, without using wholesale pricing for flash drives and just using bulk pricing they were mere cents apart in price per GB.

UMD? Who says you can't use optical media for handhelds? Hell, a Blu-Ray version of UMD wouldn't be too farfetched considering Sony loves to invent their own proprietary everything.
[/quote]

Sorry, but without sources I simply cannot believe flash drives and blu-rays are even close. Production of blu-rays, (i.e., pressing discs) alone would be a hell of a lot cheaper then flash production.

UMD sucked. People hated it and movie studios removed support for it. Plus, for a portable device, using discs instead of carts seems silly because you'd want as few moving parts as possible in something that is portable. I don't know if anyone has seen/heard what happens when you drop a PSP while you're playing a game. Hideous noise.

Sony should have used carts.

[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1358926514' post='595472454']
I'm not saying that the next microsoft console won't have Blu-Ray. I just don't see any real advantage in doing so. Most people who want a Blu-Ray player have a player already or have a PS3. I don't think Microsoft should aim to replace $80 devices, rather they should aim to extend those devices (ie the possible HDMI input detailed in the other thread). The next xbox could possibly even handle your cable/satellite box with such an input, allowing you to use the dashboard over your TV. There are many more interesting possibilities out there that don't overlap with your current setup but augment them.
[/quote]

The next console [i]will[/i] have a blu-ray drive. It's really not a matter of "if". Putting in a blu-ray dirve is going to be for the consoles games, not just for movie playback. There is no other sensible alternative. DVD capacity isn't large enough going forward. As I noted earlier in this topic, some games in this gen have had to be spanned across multiple DVD discs (ME2, ME3, LA Noire). I think some PS3 games would have had to have been spanned as well if the PS3 didn't support Blu-Ray.


[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1358949420' post='595473064']
A lot of people for some reason still look at is as "Sony's format/creation", and therefore somehow traitorous or a bad business decision for MS to "work" with Sony. Which of course to anyone who's researched the matter knows is not true, and any royalties needing paid go to a larger organization that Sony is only a mere part of, not owner of.
[/quote]

Precisely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

There were nine companies in the start (The "Blu-ray Disc founder group"): Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung, then they exapnded it to the Blu-Ray Disc Assoc. so more companies could participate.

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I think you are misunderstanding. First off, pressing a disc is only "cheaper" or "easier" because of the number of facilities around which already do so. While the 3DS may only have 1-2GB they themselves prove that the production of the media isn't difficult nor expensive. They produce games half or even less than half the price of games on DVD's or Blu-Ray so I fail to see any point at them being less practical financially (and the most expensive ones are higher budget and 1st party titles). They aren't any more difficult to produce that disks.

In regards to consumer pricing, they are very VERY close in price:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134716 - 32GB SDHC - $21
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Flash-Drive-SDCZ36-064G-AFFP/dp/B007JR5304/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1359085574&sr=1-3 - 64 GB Flash Drive - $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0SF0BV1245&Tpk=blu%20ray%20dual%20layer Dual Layer 50GB Blu-Ray $64

So from my perspective I don't see these as being much different in price. Sure, production costs may vary but I doubt that Sony is making a such a high profit compared to the other media devices listed. In fact, even on Amazon it appears that the flash drive is more bang for your buck (both being $40 but the flash drive having 14GB more storage space).

You may be accusing me of assuming that Blu-Rays are still a fortune, but to me it seems everyone else here has forgotten that storage media has dropped in price significantly as well. I can get a 8GB drive at my local computer store for $1. Before we start accusing people of being close minded don't perhaps we should all do some research?

Anyways as I said before I don't believe they will exclude a Blu-Ray drive, merely am suggesting a possibility that may appear in either this generation or even the next generation of consoles. I personally don't see a reason to keep using optical media. At this point, if they even try to keep backwards compatibility they'll have to put two lasers into the next XBox (one for DVD and one for Blu-Ray). That's going to increase the price, complexity and possibility of failure for the console. That being said we could still get a Blu-Ray drive and not use the media for games, just movies. Regardless of how things turn out I'm just pointing out that, from what I can tell, Blu-Ray isn't going to solve any problems. Media cards are more reliable, faster and scaleable and in the long run make far more sense. But that's just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to attack me for making the point either.

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You can't compare the price of a blu-ray bought in a store to one pressed in a factory, it's being done on a much larger scale (Hundreds of thousands of disks, that reduces the costs) and pressing is different to burning. [url="http://www.pacificdisc.com/PricingBluRay.html"]This[/url] seems to be a small scale operation, and even then they're talking prices of $2.90 (or so) for pressing a 50GB disk.

It might cost more to include a hybrid DVD/Blu-Ray drive, but it'll cost even more to use flash based media.

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It will include blu-ray or Microsoft is done.

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[quote name='AngelGraves13' timestamp='1359102415' post='595478010']
It will include blu-ray or Microsoft is done.
[/quote]

Probably it will, but why would they be done if it didn't ?

everyone has a BD player today,s it's not because of that, as for disk size, hey could go the Nintendo way and make their own disks. The best thin about the WiiU by the way is the disks, those rounded edges are awesome.

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1359099863' post='595477978']
I think you are misunderstanding. First off, pressing a disc is only "cheaper" or "easier" because of the number of facilities around which already do so.
[/quote]

Ok. So you already have the infrastructure to make games. Why start all new plants or negotiate new contracts with different companies to make flash-based media for games? No sense.

[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1359099863' post='595477978']
While the 3DS may only have 1-2GB they themselves prove that the production of the media isn't difficult nor expensive. They produce games half or even less than half the price of games on DVD's or Blu-Ray so I fail to see any point at them being less practical financially (and the most expensive ones are higher budget and 1st party titles). They aren't any more difficult to produce that disks.
[/quote]

Nintendo uses carts in a [i]handheld [/i]andcontinued with it for the 3DS for the sake of BC. It makes sense to have carts for a handheld because the size of discs dictates the minimum size a device has to be to use them and you want less moving parts. Who wants a handheld the size of a disc? Not very portable.

[quote]In regards to consumer pricing, they are very VERY close in price:
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134716"]http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820134716[/url] - 32GB SDHC - $21
[url="http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Flash-Drive-SDCZ36-064G-AFFP/dp/B007JR5304/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1359085574&sr=1-3"]http://www.amazon.co...59085574&sr=1-3[/url] - 64 GB Flash Drive - $40
[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0SF0BV1245&Tpk=blu%20ray%20dual%20layer"]http://www.newegg.co...%20dual%20layer[/url] Dual Layer 50GB Blu-Ray $64[/quote]


Consumer purchasing isn't the same as when a company mass produces. USB sticks for consumers are cheap because people buy them for data storage/transfer, they are rewritable, and faster then optical media. I don't know anyone who uses blu-ray rewritables over USB sticks for data storage and transfer. There is no sensible reason to sell people sticks/cards with games (for consoles) on them over pressed discs. None.

[quote]So from my perspective I don't see these as being much different in price. Sure, production costs may vary but I doubt that Sony is making a such a high profit compared to the other media devices listed. In fact, even on Amazon it appears that the flash drive is more bang for your buck (both being $40 but the flash drive having 14GB more storage space).[/quote]

You're comparing two different products, with two different intended purposes. One obvious reason why blank blu-rays are expensive is they aren't used by lots of people. I don't know anyone who has a blu-ray writer. Hell, I don't know many people who have readers in their PCs/Laptops. Every PC has USB ports and it's much easier to copy/delete things from a stick or a card than to rewrite a disc over and over again.

[quote]You may be accusing me of assuming that Blu-Rays are still a fortune, but to me it seems everyone else here has forgotten that storage media has dropped in price significantly as well. I can get a 8GB drive at my local computer store for $1. Before we start accusing people of being close minded don't perhaps we should all do some research?[/quote]

I didn't accuse you of anything, and where is the close minded part? Because I disagree with you?


[quote]You don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to attack me for making the point either.[/quote]


Where did I attack you? Dafuq is wrong with people on this forum. You disagree with them and you're accused of attacking them.

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Posted

Hard to be the focus of your entertainment center without one...
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[quote name='Dashel' timestamp='1359157084' post='595479730']
Hard to be the focus of your entertainment center without one...
[/quote]

why ? if you already have a BD player why would you need another one, and because it's the focus doesn't mean it has to do it all. besides I'd wager a lot more people watch HD movies and series over streaming services now than BD. and if you're bringing up countries that don't have the bandwidth for it, these are the same places where DVD still reigns far above BD.

in either case it'll most likely have BD, though I would like if they copied Nintendo's WiiU disks.

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[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359156818' post='595479718']
Ok. So you already have the infrastructure to make games. Why start all new plants or negotiate new contracts with different companies to make flash-based media for games? No sense.[/quote]
They will eventually have to change. I doubt discs will remain a viable storage medium for much longer specifically because they are in many ways inferior to other storage mediums. Sure, pressing discs is very easy, but burning them isn't much more difficult (just less facilities that do so, making it more expensive).

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359156818' post='595479718']
Nintendo uses carts in a [i]handheld [/i]andcontinued with it for the 3DS for the sake of BC. It makes sense to have carts for a handheld because the size of discs dictates the minimum size a device has to be to use them and you want less moving parts. Who wants a handheld the size of a disc? Not very portable.[/quote]
Why does it have to be a portable device to use a small form factor storage medium? I don't get that logic. Sure, they use it specifically because it is small, but why does that exclude it from use in a console? I think we'd all love for our devices to be smaller, produce less heat and consume less power. Media cards can provide that in spades with a marginal cost increase.

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359156818' post='595479718']
Consumer purchasing isn't the same as when a company mass produces. USB sticks for consumers are cheap because people buy them for data storage/transfer, they are rewritable, and faster then optical media. I don't know anyone who uses blu-ray rewritables over USB sticks for data storage and transfer. There is no sensible reason to sell people sticks/cards with games (for consoles) on them over pressed discs. None.[/quote]
I concur that it isn't the same thing. I also don't see you sighting any drawbacks to using that media. In fact, the best reason to use them is because of their speed. It would reduce loading times significantly, one of the biggest issues with modern games and something many developers are trying their best to eliminate. On top of that, any extra storage space within the device could store your save games, dlc, etc resulting in conservation of space on the console itself. There are many ways you can use media cards, discs are read only.

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359156818' post='595479718']
You're comparing two different products, with two different intended purposes. One obvious reason why blank blu-rays are expensive is they aren't used by lots of people. I don't know anyone who has a blu-ray writer. Hell, I don't know many people who have readers in their PCs/Laptops. Every PC has USB ports and it's much easier to copy/delete things from a stick or a card than to rewrite a disc over and over again.[/quote]
Read above.

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359156818' post='595479718']
I didn't accuse you of anything, and where is the close minded part? Because I disagree with you?
[/quote]
My previous post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but all the previous posts in response to mine. If you didn't accuse me, then it wasn't meant for you.

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359156818' post='595479718']
Where did I attack you? Dafuq is wrong with people on this forum. You disagree with them and you're accused of attacking them.
[/quote]
Again, my previous post wasn't specifically at you. If you didn't do it, then it isn't directed at you. Specifically I was responding to the people who, instead of actually responding to my post, made quips about fanboyism.

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1359172214' post='595480278']
They will eventually have to change. I doubt discs will remain a viable storage medium for much longer specifically because they are in many ways inferior to other storage mediums. Sure, pressing discs is very easy, but burning them isn't much more difficult (just less facilities that do so, making it more expensive).

[/quote]

Why does it need to change? Blu-ray capacity is very high: 25 single layer, 50 double layer, 100 and 128 BDXL. Pioneer showed off a 400GB disc. That is going to be enough for all of the applications going forward. They are even looking at extending the blu-ray spec for 4K. Show me how flash media is going to be able to compete with that.

[quote]Why does it have to be a portable device to use a small form factor storage medium? I don't get that logic. Sure, they use it specifically because it is small, but why does that exclude it from use in a console? I think we'd all love for our devices to be smaller, produce less heat and consume less power. Media cards can provide that in spades with a marginal cost increase.[/quote]


It doesn't have to, but it is the only sensible option for handhelds. Home consoles from Sony and MS want to be media devices. Millions of people worldwide have DVDs and Blu-Rays they want to play. Yes, I am sure people already have DVD/BRD players, but people also like to streamline things and use one device in their Home Ent. for everything. Gaming, streaming, disc playback, music streaming etc.

Not including a player in something you bill as a media centre is mental.


[quote]I concur that it isn't the same thing. I also don't see you sighting any drawbacks to using that media. In fact, the best reason to use them is because of their speed. It would reduce loading times significantly, one of the biggest issues with modern games and something many developers are trying their best to eliminate. On top of that, any extra storage space within the device could store your save games, dlc, etc resulting in conservation of space on the console itself. There are many ways you can use media cards, discs are read only.[/quote]

The drawback is capacity and cost, for the umpteenth time. Publishers and developers moved away from cartridges because of capacity in the first place. You're right, they did sacrifice loading times, but it was a necessity. Although, that might be negated now because consoles have internal hard drives and much of the data is installed on the the drive which reduces load times. Finally, games are going to have higher quality video and audio, you need somewhere to put it.

Carts/flash media costs more to produce and have seemingly no benefit over discs. Guess who picks up the bill at the end of the day for increased production/manufacturing costs (hint: it isn't the publishers)

[quote]My previous post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but all the previous posts in response to mine. If you didn't accuse me, then it wasn't meant for you.


Again, my previous post wasn't specifically at you. If you didn't do it, then it isn't directed at you. Specifically I was responding to the people who, instead of actually responding to my post, made quips about fanboyism.[/quote]


Your post was right after mine and was addressing my points. You kept using the pronoun "you" so it wasn't unreasonable for me to assume you were talking to me specifically.


I don't think you're a fanboy or hater, I am however unsure of why you are so doggedly defending this idea which seem to me to be without merit.

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1359172214' post='595480278']They will eventually have to change. I doubt discs will remain a viable storage medium for much longer specifically because they are in many ways inferior to other storage mediums. Sure, pressing discs is very easy, but burning them isn't much more difficult (just less facilities that do so, making it more expensive).
...[/quote]

Burning them might not be that much harder than pressing them, but it is a lot slower and costs more (Since you're using a CD specifically made for writing)

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[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359173908' post='595480318']
Why does it need to change? Blu-ray capacity is very high: 25 single layer, 50 double layer, 100 and 128 BDXL. Pioneer showed off a 400GB disc. That is going to be enough for all of the applications going forward. They are even looking at extending the blu-ray spec for 4K. Show me how flash media is going to be able to compete with that.[/quote]
I doubt capacity will be an issue with flash/media cards. SDHC was designed for capacity up to 2TB (compared to your 400GB Blu-ray I see far more potential). On top of being faster, using less power and being more reliable.

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359173908' post='595480318']
It doesn't have to, but it is the only sensible option for handhelds. Home consoles from Sony and MS want to be media devices. Millions of people worldwide have DVDs and Blu-Rays they want to play. Yes, I am sure people already have DVD/BRD players, but people also like to streamline things and use one device in their Home Ent. for everything. Gaming, streaming, disc playback, music streaming etc.

Not including a player in something you bill as a media centre is mental.[/quote]
Even if you don't have the player in the device, if the rumored HDMI input is true you won't [i]need[/i] a player in your console. You can merely plug your current one in.

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359173908' post='595480318']
The drawback is capacity and cost, for the umpteenth time. Publishers and developers moved away from cartridges because of capacity in the first place. You're right, they did sacrifice loading times, but it was a necessity. Although, that might be negated now because consoles have internal hard drives and much of the data is installed on the the drive which reduces load times. Finally, games are going to have higher quality video and audio, you need somewhere to put it.

Carts/flash media costs more to produce and have seemingly no benefit over discs. Guess who picks up the bill at the end of the day for increased production/manufacturing costs (hint: it isn't the publishers)[/quote]
Again, as I stated above the current SDHC architecture was designed to support up to 2TB of storage. Cost will go down with increased production. They are also far more flexible in how they can be used.

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359173908' post='595480318']
I don't think you're a fanboy or hater, I am however unsure of why you are so doggedly defending this idea which seem to me to be without merit.
[/quote]
I personally see it as the most understandable way to move forward. I hate owning discs, I hate the boxes they come in, the scratches they accumulate over time, the noise they make when being read and the large number of drives that have failed me because they are so fragile. Its the most common point of failure in any PC/Console, why not eliminate it? I'm sure the increased cost in producing non-disk media would make up for the costs of warranty claims that have plagued every disc using console on release.

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Dual layer DVD and the option to download high rez textures through xbox live.

there is no way in hell theyre putting a bluray in there.

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I found a good article on SDHC vs Blu-Ray actually, I'm currently reading through it but I'll link it here - http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/libray_video_standard_moving_sdhc_flash_media

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@emn1ty:


SDHC only goes to 32GB, SDXC goes to 2TB... According to wiki. I don't know if there are any 2TB ones now or if they are planned for the future. The largest one I could find for sale was 256GB it was > $550AUD.

The cheapest SDXC 64GB card I am looking at is $41AUD. That is just the card itself. No content on it. Compare that to the mere cents, or percentage of a cent, pressing a disc. No competition.


[quote name='vcfan' timestamp='1359177728' post='595480396']
Dual layer DVD and the option to download high rez textures through xbox live.

there is no way in hell theyre putting a bluray in there.
[/quote]


According to the leaked spec, MS are putting a Blu-Ray player in their next console...

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[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1359178254' post='595480402']
@emn1ty:


SDHC only goes to 32GB, SDXC goes to 2TB... According to wiki. I don't know if there are any 2TB ones now or if they are planned for the future. The largest one I could find for sale was 256GB it was > $550AUD.

The cheapest SDXC 64GB card I am looking at is $41AUD. That is just the card itself. No content on it. Compare that to the mere cents, or percentage of a cent, pressing a disc. No competition.
[/quote]
Name a game to me, outside of DLC, that uses more than 32GB of space. You won't find one. Even MMO's don't break that size and they are notorious for being extremely large installs. And that's on PC. Take a look at the article I linked, it demonstrates that price differences for movies can be made up for in many ways, this would also include games. One particularly interesting thing is direct patching/updating of the media. You movies could, for example, get updated subtitles and during production these changes can easily be applied to the newer releases.

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[quote name='Emn1ty' timestamp='1359179116' post='595480408']
Name a game to me, outside of DLC, that uses more than 32GB of space. You won't find one. Even MMO's don't break that size and they are notorious for being extremely large installs. And that's on PC. Take a look at the article I linked, it demonstrates that price differences for movies can be made up for in many ways, this would also include games. One particularly interesting thing is direct patching/updating of the media. You movies could, for example, get updated subtitles and during production these changes can easily be applied to the newer releases.
[/quote]

Games currently don't go over 32GB of space, but that isn't to say they never will. Especially if higher quality video/audio starts to be adopted. 4K maybe? Still the price of pressing discs is much, much cheaper. This seems to be a point you keep factoring out of the discussion. Price matters. Manufactures, especially when competing in the console market, want to keep them down and encourage sales to get people into their ecosystem. Someone has to pick up the costs if manufactures get extravagant with development. And you can get your bottom dollar it will be us, the consumer, who will do so.

In the link you provided, (provided these numbers are accurate) a BD DL (50 GB) was $0.09 per GB while SDHC (32GB) was $0.90 per GB! That is 10 times the cost per GB :| ! That is an insane increase. You do that over millions of units and it is a whole lotta mulah... For very little reward.

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