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Likelyhood of the next xbox inculding a blu-ray drive?

blu-ray format war microsft xbox next gen

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#196 +warwagon

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:20

Anyone who thinks the next Xbox will not include any form of optical media or will stick with DVD needs to be committed to a mental institution because they are insane.

The next Xbox will most likely have a blu-ray player built in. Either that or they will come out with a new storage media. They can no longer use DVD's, PERIOD! Game developers are running out of space. Add to the fact, that the next xbox will be have much greater graphical detail thus much higher textures will be needed. It will also not be a download only game system. We are not to that point yet.


#197 Ryoken

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:35

It'll have one.. The war is won, and it is Bluray.

Most people still don't have the connections and caps to be download ever larger games.. think they are big now, just wait till the next gen, they will only get bigger.

Also, Microsoft has tried to keep the Xbox as a Media Center, to keep that going they require Bluray playback, otherwise they lose out on that market.

#198 Colin McGregor

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:46

MS should have used HD-DVD for their games and put the drive in the slim. Sure the format lost the nerd war but its still larger discs. Sony kept using umd even though no one ever used it. Just because people chose Blu-ray for the movie format doesn't mean MS couldn't have still used the discs.

Plus 99% of ps3 games and xbox games are less then 8 gb. Even though ps3 games are on Blu-ray the games are still the same size (most times actually smaller) then the 360 version (aside from multidisc games).

#199 Ryoken

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:08

MS should have used HD-DVD for their games and put the drive in the slim. Sure the format lost the nerd war but its still larger discs. Sony kept using umd even though no one ever used it. Just because people chose Blu-ray for the movie format doesn't mean MS couldn't have still used the discs.

Plus 99% of ps3 games and xbox games are less then 8 gb. Even though ps3 games are on Blu-ray the games are still the same size (most times actually smaller) then the 360 version (aside from multidisc games).

Lots of games are smaller, but the "feature" games that bring in the big bucks are often quite a bit larger than a single DVD.

HDDVD is dead, if it wasn't being used for Movies then it would have been foolish to use it for games, cause you lose the low costs that come with mass production. 360 games alone could not keep those costs down to a reasonable level..

Also there are lots of cutbacks on 360 games from what studios would like to do, longer pre-rendered scenes, more audio, Better audio, etc.. that just aren't available to them currently..

And as I said in my previous post, MS wants to keep the 360 as a Media Center, and the current Media is Bluray.

#200 Emn1ty

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:20

And as I said in my previous post, MS wants to keep the 360 as a Media Center, and the current Media is Bluray.

Don't rule out Netflix and Hulu. Streaming has become a huge part of media centers and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft abandoned physical media entirely seeing as they have been hinting at that for a very long time. Blu-Ray, while the new standard, hasn't overtaken DVD's as completely as they could have. Even if blu-ray players are low cost now they have yet to move beyond movies and PS3's (PC's still stick with DVD's even now). I wonder if Blu-Ray will survive the next five years, tbh.

#201 Ryoken

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:23

Don't rule out Netflix and Hulu. Streaming has become a huge part of media centers and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft abandoned physical media entirely seeing as they have been hinting at that for a very long time. Blu-Ray, while the new standard, hasn't overtaken DVD's as completely as they could have. Even if blu-ray players are low cost now they have yet to move beyond movies and PS3's (PC's still stick with DVD's even now). I wonder if Blu-Ray will survive the next five years, tbh.

Netflix and Hulu is great in the US, okay in a few other countries, and all but nonexistent in the rest.
Additionally it requires another subscription, and loads of bandwidth..

Trust me.. if MS made a console that required you to have download Everything, they might do well in some markets, but they would be writing off whole others. All they would be doing is shooting themselves in the foot. There would be almost no benefit, and they would lose whole markets of people who don't have broadband, have retarded caps, who don't wanna pay for XBL, etc.

#202 Emn1ty

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:44

Netflix and Hulu is great in the US, okay in a few other countries, and all but nonexistent in the rest.
Additionally it requires another subscription, and loads of bandwidth..

Trust me.. if MS made a console that required you to have download Everything, they might do well in some markets, but they would be writing off whole others. All they would be doing is shooting themselves in the foot. There would be almost no benefit, and they would lose whole markets of people who don't have broadband, have retarded caps, who don't wanna pay for XBL, etc.

Not saying they will go download only, but there is no reason to use Blu-Ray outside of capacity. Blu-Ray has not dominated the media market like it could have. So far only the PS3 and movies use it as a medium. So if you think about it only 1/3 of half the gaming market uses Blu-Ray for media (PC's don't use it either).

I also don't think Blu-Ray is necessary for a multimedia device, and especially not a gaming device. They could just as easily have an HDMI input that accepts a Blu-Ray player output rather than stick the drive in the system. For those that aren't going to download anything they can either continue to use DVD's or use a different storage medium such as flash memory or high capacity media cards (SD, SDHC, etc). I'd prefer the latter specifically because it makes the console quieter, games will load faster and the console can be much, much smaller.

#203 mrp04

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:52

Not saying they will go download only, but there is no reason to use Blu-Ray outside of capacity. Blu-Ray has not dominated the media market like it could have. So far only the PS3 and movies use it as a medium. So if you think about it only 1/3 of half the gaming market uses Blu-Ray for media (PC's don't use it either).

I also don't think Blu-Ray is necessary for a multimedia device, and especially not a gaming device. They could just as easily have an HDMI input that accepts a Blu-Ray player output rather than stick the drive in the system. For those that aren't going to download anything they can either continue to use DVD's or use a different storage medium such as flash memory or high capacity media cards (SD, SDHC, etc). I'd prefer the latter specifically because it makes the console quieter, games will load faster and the console can be much, much smaller.


Jesus do people STILL believe the next xbox won't come with either Blu-Ray or a high density optical disc? They just make sense. They cost peanuts to produce and a Blu-Ray drive is dirt cheap and has economies of scale going for it. It'd be stupid to use something else. What is it with you and hating Blu-Ray? It's the prevalent high capacity optical disc format currently available. Microsoft used DVD, did they not? Sony helped develop that. Memory cards that are 32GB cost two orders of magnitude more than an optical disc. Why throw away profits needlessly?

#204 Emn1ty

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:00

Jesus do people STILL believe the next xbox won't come with either Blu-Ray or a high density optical disc? They just make sense. They cost peanuts to produce and a Blu-Ray drive is dirt cheap and has economies of scale going for it. It'd be stupid to use something else. What is it with you and hating Blu-Ray? It's the prevalent high capacity optical disc format currently available. Microsoft used DVD, did they not? Sony helped develop that. Memory cards that are 32GB cost two orders of magnitude more than an optical disc. Why throw away profits needlessly?

Actually, after doing the math some time ago the difference in price between a Blu-Ray disc and Flash Drive of similar capacity was cents. I see no reason to use a medium that is 1) slower 2) produces more heat 3) uses more moving parts 4) takes up 10-20x the space 5) more susceptible to wear and tear 6) and finally uses more power.

Nintendo has been successfully using cartidge media for its 3DS, DS and so on for a while. I see no reason why optical media is superior to media cards/flash outside the fact that there are more facilities in place to produce optical discs. Its not about hating Blu-Ray, its about understanding that if we decided to make the change to some form of solid state media like a flash or media card they would not only be better in many ways as listed above, but they would be scaleable. Producers could use between 512MB and 50GB on a single card rather than having a 50GB disc that only ends up having half of the capacity used.

While we may see a player in the next xbox, I really don't see why. I think the next xbox is about being a media hub, not necessarily a media player. Iirc, media centers have shifted from being the all-in-one to being the central port for all your devices.

#205 OP Juddy

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:15

Actually, after doing the math some time ago the difference in price between a Blu-Ray disc and Flash Drive of similar capacity was cents. I see no reason to use a medium that is 1) slower 2) produces more heat 3) uses more moving parts 4) takes up 10-20x the space 5) more susceptible to wear and tear 6) and finally uses more power.


Wait, what? Where is this math that shows blu-rays and flash drives prices are only cents apart? Find that hard to believe.

Nintendo has been successfully using cartidge media for its 3DS, DS and so on for a while. I see no reason why optical media is superior to media cards/flash outside the fact that there are more facilities in place to produce optical discs.


What else could they use for a handheld? Are you going to make a handheld that can play blu-ray discs? lol.

#206 Emn1ty

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:35

Wait, what? Where is this math that shows blu-rays and flash drives prices are only cents apart? Find that hard to believe.

I did the math myself. I looked up exactly how much each sells for and the difference in price per GB is marginal. But I couldn't find a very good reference for wholesale pricing on flash drives. So keeping that in mind, without using wholesale pricing for flash drives and just using bulk pricing they were mere cents apart in price per GB.

What else could they use for a handheld? Are you going to make a handheld that can play blu-ray discs? lol.

UMD? Who says you can't use optical media for handhelds? Hell, a Blu-Ray version of UMD wouldn't be too farfetched considering Sony loves to invent their own proprietary everything.

I'm not saying that the next microsoft console won't have Blu-Ray. I just don't see any real advantage in doing so. Most people who want a Blu-Ray player have a player already or have a PS3. I don't think Microsoft should aim to replace $80 devices, rather they should aim to extend those devices (ie the possible HDMI input detailed in the other thread). The next xbox could possibly even handle your cable/satellite box with such an input, allowing you to use the dashboard over your TV. There are many more interesting possibilities out there that don't overlap with your current setup but augment them.

#207 mrp04

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 13:44

Actually, after doing the math some time ago the difference in price between a Blu-Ray disc and Flash Drive of similar capacity was cents. I see no reason to use a medium that is 1) slower 2) produces more heat 3) uses more moving parts 4) takes up 10-20x the space 5) more susceptible to wear and tear 6) and finally uses more power.

Nintendo has been successfully using cartidge media for its 3DS, DS and so on for a while. I see no reason why optical media is superior to media cards/flash outside the fact that there are more facilities in place to produce optical discs. Its not about hating Blu-Ray, its about understanding that if we decided to make the change to some form of solid state media like a flash or media card they would not only be better in many ways as listed above, but they would be scaleable. Producers could use between 512MB and 50GB on a single card rather than having a 50GB disc that only ends up having half of the capacity used.

While we may see a player in the next xbox, I really don't see why. I think the next xbox is about being a media hub, not necessarily a media player. Iirc, media centers have shifted from being the all-in-one to being the central port for all your devices.


There is no way 32GB of flash costs anywhere near a blu-ray disc, which cost around 20 cents to produce.

The DS cartridges didn't pass 256MB in size, and most 3DS games don't exceed 2GB, with most being 1GB. That's a long ways away from 32GB.

The next xbox will come with a mandatory hard drive. Just install the game to the drive if you want fast speeds and less noise. I'm sure they will support that feature since the 360 can do it. Hard drives have much faster sequential speed than any cheap flash they'd have to use to sell games on 32GB cards and they have 5GB of RAM availble to games to sequentially load data into.

Blu-ray drives and media have become so cheap it would be silly to not use it.

#208 Audioboxer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 13:57

Jesus do people STILL believe the next xbox won't come with either Blu-Ray or a high density optical disc? They just make sense. They cost peanuts to produce and a Blu-Ray drive is dirt cheap and has economies of scale going for it. It'd be stupid to use something else. What is it with you and hating Blu-Ray? It's the prevalent high capacity optical disc format currently available. Microsoft used DVD, did they not? Sony helped develop that. Memory cards that are 32GB cost two orders of magnitude more than an optical disc. Why throw away profits needlessly?


A lot of people for some reason still look at is as "Sony's format/creation", and therefore somehow traitorous or a bad business decision for MS to "work" with Sony. Which of course to anyone who's researched the matter knows is not true, and any royalties needing paid go to a larger organization that Sony is only a mere part of, not owner of.

The newest PS3 Slim is almost at the £99 mark, Blu Ray drives and discs do not cost a lot any more. They did in 2005, but this is 8~9 years later guys.

#209 OP Juddy

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 18:57

I did the math myself. I looked up exactly how much each sells for and the difference in price per GB is marginal. But I couldn't find a very good reference for wholesale pricing on flash drives. So keeping that in mind, without using wholesale pricing for flash drives and just using bulk pricing they were mere cents apart in price per GB.

UMD? Who says you can't use optical media for handhelds? Hell, a Blu-Ray version of UMD wouldn't be too farfetched considering Sony loves to invent their own proprietary everything.


Sorry, but without sources I simply cannot believe flash drives and blu-rays are even close. Production of blu-rays, (i.e., pressing discs) alone would be a hell of a lot cheaper then flash production.

UMD sucked. People hated it and movie studios removed support for it. Plus, for a portable device, using discs instead of carts seems silly because you'd want as few moving parts as possible in something that is portable. I don't know if anyone has seen/heard what happens when you drop a PSP while you're playing a game. Hideous noise.

Sony should have used carts.

I'm not saying that the next microsoft console won't have Blu-Ray. I just don't see any real advantage in doing so. Most people who want a Blu-Ray player have a player already or have a PS3. I don't think Microsoft should aim to replace $80 devices, rather they should aim to extend those devices (ie the possible HDMI input detailed in the other thread). The next xbox could possibly even handle your cable/satellite box with such an input, allowing you to use the dashboard over your TV. There are many more interesting possibilities out there that don't overlap with your current setup but augment them.


The next console will have a blu-ray drive. It's really not a matter of "if". Putting in a blu-ray dirve is going to be for the consoles games, not just for movie playback. There is no other sensible alternative. DVD capacity isn't large enough going forward. As I noted earlier in this topic, some games in this gen have had to be spanned across multiple DVD discs (ME2, ME3, LA Noire). I think some PS3 games would have had to have been spanned as well if the PS3 didn't support Blu-Ray.


A lot of people for some reason still look at is as "Sony's format/creation", and therefore somehow traitorous or a bad business decision for MS to "work" with Sony. Which of course to anyone who's researched the matter knows is not true, and any royalties needing paid go to a larger organization that Sony is only a mere part of, not owner of.


Precisely.

http://en.wikipedia....isc_Association

There were nine companies in the start (The "Blu-ray Disc founder group"): Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung, then they exapnded it to the Blu-Ray Disc Assoc. so more companies could participate.

#210 Emn1ty

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:44

I think you are misunderstanding. First off, pressing a disc is only "cheaper" or "easier" because of the number of facilities around which already do so. While the 3DS may only have 1-2GB they themselves prove that the production of the media isn't difficult nor expensive. They produce games half or even less than half the price of games on DVD's or Blu-Ray so I fail to see any point at them being less practical financially (and the most expensive ones are higher budget and 1st party titles). They aren't any more difficult to produce that disks.

In regards to consumer pricing, they are very VERY close in price:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820134716 - 32GB SDHC - $21
http://www.amazon.co...59085574&sr=1-3 - 64 GB Flash Drive - $40
http://www.newegg.co... ray dual layer Dual Layer 50GB Blu-Ray $64

So from my perspective I don't see these as being much different in price. Sure, production costs may vary but I doubt that Sony is making a such a high profit compared to the other media devices listed. In fact, even on Amazon it appears that the flash drive is more bang for your buck (both being $40 but the flash drive having 14GB more storage space).

You may be accusing me of assuming that Blu-Rays are still a fortune, but to me it seems everyone else here has forgotten that storage media has dropped in price significantly as well. I can get a 8GB drive at my local computer store for $1. Before we start accusing people of being close minded don't perhaps we should all do some research?

Anyways as I said before I don't believe they will exclude a Blu-Ray drive, merely am suggesting a possibility that may appear in either this generation or even the next generation of consoles. I personally don't see a reason to keep using optical media. At this point, if they even try to keep backwards compatibility they'll have to put two lasers into the next XBox (one for DVD and one for Blu-Ray). That's going to increase the price, complexity and possibility of failure for the console. That being said we could still get a Blu-Ray drive and not use the media for games, just movies. Regardless of how things turn out I'm just pointing out that, from what I can tell, Blu-Ray isn't going to solve any problems. Media cards are more reliable, faster and scaleable and in the long run make far more sense. But that's just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to attack me for making the point either.



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