Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade


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The same clowns who sunk $6 billion into buying an advertising company only to make a complete loss on it?

Microsoft has been sliding downhill ever since Ballmer took over for Gates. The difference is that Gates is an engineer who actually understands technology and has a vision. Most importantly, he understood software. Ballmer's no Gates.

What are you talking about? Sliding downhill? Have you even seen the quarter-to-quarter earnings reports? Stocks are on a 52wk high. Quality of software is going up (Except Windows 8) so I really can't understand what you're talking about.

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Wow.. it is terrible.. using it now the OEM version and all I can say it's absolutely terrible. For someone who has been using Windows for 20 years now I can't find how to switch between freakin' browser windows. The whole thing is a bigger mess than I thought. How in the hell will regular users understand this is completely beyond me.

you don't know how to use the task bar... Well that explains a LOT.
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I wonder how many of you actually sat down with the OS with a clear mind and didn't scoff at it the first second you saw it. The best way to go about ANY changes to ANY platform or app is to approach with a clear mind, and many, many free hours. Windows 8 requires you to suspend any previous conceptions about operating systems. Give the hardware time to catch up, and by Windows 9, I guarantee some of you will have changed your opinion.

I personally can't wait to augment my desktop with a touch screen. Touch input is quicker and more efficient than the mouse is in some cases.

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Windows is all about Hype. Vista, they jacked up the entire OS by giving us the fat lady that could barely move.That sucker ate alot of my hardrive space. Win7 found success because they redid the kernel. Win8, they felt they could impress the market by hyping a "new" UI and completely revamping the desktop. I'll wait to see what's behind win8. but this is 2 out of 3 OS'es that bombed under Ballmer.

and I have been using Windows since 3.1 circa 1991.

Life was much better under Gates.. :D

I tried the RTM yesterday evening and I have to say this is the worst thing Microsoft have ever done by far. There is no reason at all for me to upgrade to this. I mean really what new features are there? A new UI on Explorer? Task Manager? Metro? Is that all? This OS is a total joke.

This OS feels like Microsoft throwing us under the bus (pre-existing users of Windows) to try and get in to the tablet market. Leveraging their desktop monopoly to give developers incentive to make Metro apps because they know that without that large desktop market share developers will find it difficult to find reasons to invest in making Metro apps. Why develop for a tablet that will only capture 1 maybe 2% of the market?

And well on the desktop it just sucks. It doesn't work man, giant UI buttons, 2D boxes, removal of the start menu. We use keyboards and mice on our desktops not fat fingers. This whole UI just doesn't work and it feels unfinished, half baked, confused about what it is. The fact it has two separate environments for a start just adds an extra layer of complexity to an already confused operating system.

I really fail to understand how Microsoft ever thought this was a good idea. I mean really.. who is running things over there?

"Hey guys I got a great idea, let's take the UI that hasn't got even garnered 2% share on mobile after a year in the market and put it on our main Windows product! Nothing could go wrong with that! - Also lets spend practically all our time porting that UI over and offer almost no other new features - No Time Machine, iTunes or iCloud competitor, no one needs those anyways what they need is giant boxes and an extra toolbox in Explorer!"

new features well to start with

- Start screen, easier and more organized view of your favorite pinned apps (don't compare it to all apps, that's another layer in). With the ability to sort your apps into named groups.

- Metro apps and -

- App store

- New task manager

- Overall far better performance.

- better function for detecting new apps that can open file types

- updated graphics driver model, now you get DWM(aero) even in software/classic mode

- Far improved Multi monitor support

- New restore functions, enabling a full reset to factory standards on all installations with no fuss.

- Live accoutn and cloud features built in.

- Sync your desktop across computers/devices

- Storage spaces

- faster boot time.

And much more.

Windows is all about Hype. Vista, they jacked up the entire OS by giving us the fat lady that could barely move.That sucker ate alot of my hardrive space. Win7 found success because they redid the kernel. Win8, they felt they could impress the market by hyping a "new" UI and completely revamping the desktop. I'll wait to see what's behind win8. but this is 2 out of 3 OS'es that bombed under Ballmer.

and I have been using Windows since 3.1 circa 1991.

Life was much better under Gates.. :D

Vista didn't bomb, and before 7 was the fastest selling windows OS. Just because you didn't like what was a perfectly good OS doesn't mean it bombed.

new features well to start with

- Start screen, easier and more organized view of your favorite pinned apps (don't compare it to all apps, that's another layer in). With the ability to sort your apps into named groups.

- Metro apps and -

- App store

- New task manager

- Overall far better performance.

- better function for detecting new apps that can open file types

- updated graphics driver model, now you get DWM(aero) even in software/classic mode

- Far improved Multi monitor support

- New restore functions, enabling a full reset to factory standards on all installations with no fuss.

- Live accoutn and cloud features built in.

- Sync your desktop across computers/devices

- Storage spaces

- faster boot time.

And much more.

Vista didn't bomb, and before 7 was the fastest selling windows OS. Just because you didn't like what was a perfectly good OS doesn't mean it bombed.

You forgot Security and Kernel changes :)

Windows is all about Hype. Vista, they jacked up the entire OS by giving us the fat lady that could barely move.That sucker ate alot of my hardrive space. Win7 found success because they redid the kernel. Win8, they felt they could impress the market by hyping a "new" UI and completely revamping the desktop. I'll wait to see what's behind win8. but this is 2 out of 3 OS'es that bombed under Ballmer.

and I have been using Windows since 3.1 circa 1991.

Life was much better under Gates.. :D

I was unaware you could see the future and thus know Win8's exact sales figures.

As much as I tried to get used to Win 8, there is no way I'll go back to it. No those fake start buttons are crap. Yes they are. Just when you think Microsoft finally got it right with Win 7, someone in their R&D dept. decided that their main source of revenue needed major change. I understand the whole idea of integrating all MS devices together and trying to take over the world with a unified OS but when you force ridiculous **** down people's throat they go elsewhere. If Windows 8 becomes a requirement to run certain **** I'll switch to Ubuntu (or another Debian distro) in a heartbeat. I've been using Windows since 3.1 and never have I seen such a stupid decision since WinME. F*** *** MS.

Same here. I have upgraded to every Windows version since Windows 95, I've even used these from the first beta versions as my main OS because I have been on internal beta at Connect, but this time had zero interest after seeing where this was headed. I must say I would be interested in some performance improvements in W8 but I just can't switch from W7 because W8 is so ugly. To be honest my main reason for upgrading has always been the UI.

You should understand that Windows team changes on every version almost completely and every new team has a different vision and would want to do a complete overhaul on the OS. That's why Windows sometimes takes steps backwards.

You've been using WIndows for 20 years and you dont know Alt+Tab or Win+Tab?

Since when does making something ONLY possible through the keyboard a GUI enhancement?! W8 is two steps backwards in productivity and GUI development.

<snipped out quote of removed post>

Edited by Calum

Since when does making something ONLY possible through the keyboard a GUI enhancement?! W8 is two steps backwards in productivity and GUI development.

Or he may have a life that doesn't permit him to waste his time on meaningless wannabe forums more than once every few days...

Just saying.

Alt+Tab is a power user's dream. My hand is always right there ready to switch tasks.

Windows 7 was the first OS that made me downgrade. It was ugly as ****, messy, and slow.

Downgraded from W7 to Vista?

And a complete overhaul is what we're getting.

Yep, and by doing that some things go step backwards but what goes wrong should be fixed with Windows 9.

Alt+Tab is a power user's dream. My hand is always right there ready to switch tasks.
It's great when I have two windows that I want to switch between frequently. It's pretty useless when I have a couple dozen windows open, and I need to get to one that isn't immediately adjacent in the order. One size does not fit all.

As for me, I will not be changing to Windows 8. MS invested so many resource in the Metro interface, yet the desktop part still uses icons from Vista. It shows me how much they cared about the Desktop area and I happen to have a Desktop computer. I guess I must've been living under a rock or in a cave or something. Thankfully we have Windows 7.

It's great when I have two windows that I want to switch between frequently. It's pretty useless when I have a couple dozen windows open, and I need to get to one that isn't immediately adjacent in the order. One size does not fit all.

and how does Windows 8 made switching worse? It still has the taskbar and the alt-tab XD

I predict Windows 8 will be one of Microsoft's biggest product blunders. Windows Vista will look like a huge success in comparison.

It should have been strictly a phone and tablet OS and had it's own name separate from the desktop versions.

  • Like 2

I think it's funny ahhell liked every single pro-8 comment here, but hasn't actually commented... :p

Personally, i'll stay with 7 for now and evaluate what to do with 8. I'm not really inspired to use it on my desktops for any reason. Has potential for tablets though...

Why are you torturing himself with windows problems, why not to switch to Ubuntu/MAC now? Have you noticed how popular MAC is in movies? Almost in each Hollywood movie when characters are using computer there're apple logo on back of the lid. It means if you would start using MAC, you'll be as cool as your favorite movies stars!

new features well to start with

- New task manager

- Overall far better performance.

- better function for detecting new apps that can open file types

- updated graphics driver model, now you get DWM(aero) even in software/classic mode

- Far improved Multi monitor support

- faster boot time.

This is quite true: Windows 8 has all these improvments plus IE 10, spell checking, kernel changes, Ribboned Explorer.

Sadly, even if these are very interesting and to me, the most compelling reasons to upgrade, everything I see is the user interface changes that made things more complicated to me.

So, yes, I am keeping Windows 7 too.

If you don't like change then my advice to you is to get out of the IT industry. Change is the only thing we are assured of and we can plan for!

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    • ZimaBoard 2 1664 Starter Kit review: it's a cool and affordable DIY NAS by Steven Parker IceWhale Technology reached out to me asking if I was interested in testing the ZimaBoard 2, and after convincing them to send me the Starter Kit, it arrived at my doorstep in May. A bit of background: it is a Shanghai-based Chinese company founded in 2020, which specializes in single-board servers and personal cloud solutions. From searching around online, user feedback on the company and ZimaOS is mostly positive, so we're off to a good start. In addition, I should probably point out that although they do not have a large portfolio of NAS devices, with just four of what they do offer, they seem to have covered everything from a relatively low-priced entry point with the ZimaBoard 2, right up to the high end, with the ZimaCube 2 Creator Pack that even includes an NVIDIA RTX PRO 2000. Anyway, as already mentioned, what we have today is the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit, and here are the full specifications: ZimaBoard 2 Model 832, 1664 CPU Intel Core N150 (4x E Cores/Threads, Max burst up to 3.6 GHz) TDP: 6W (Base) 10W (Max) Graphics Intel UHD Graphics 24 EUs (1.00 GHz) Memory 8 GB, 16 GB DDR5 4800MT/s non ECC SODIMM (soldered) Disk Capacity 60 TB (30 TB x 2) Supported RAID Types TRAID, TRAID +, RAID0, RAID1, RAID5, RAID 6, RAID 10 Storage 2 x SATA 3.0 6Gb/s Ports with Power Bootloader 32 GB, 64 GB eMMC Network 2x RJ-45 2.5 GbE PCIe 1 x PCIe 3.0 (via LPC) USB Ports 2 x USB-A 3.1 (5 Gbps) Display Mini-DisplayPort 1.4 (4K@60Hz) Hardware Transcoding Engine H.264, H.265, MPEG-4, VC-1 Maximum resolution: 4K (4096 x 2160); Maximum FPS: 60 Virtualization Intel® AES New Instructions Intel® Virtualization Technology (VT-x) Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d) Size (H/W/D) 140mm x 83mm x 31mm Weight 0.4 kg (only ZimaBoard 2 device) Power 12v 5A Power Supply Warranty 1 year (Global) 2 Years (EU) OS ZimaOS v1.6.1 MSRP $339, $399 ($548.60) As you can see above, there are two variants of the ZimaBoard 2. 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Processor E-cores L3-cache Turbo clock GPU GPU-clock TDP Intel N355 8 6 MB 3.9 GHz 32 EUs 1.35 GHz 9 W Intel Core 3 N350 3.9 GHz 1.35 GHz 7 W Intel Core i3-N305 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 9 W Intel Core i3-N300 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz Intel N250 4 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 6 W Intel Processor N200 3.7 GHz 0.75 GHz Intel N150 3.6 GHz 24 EUs 1 GHz Intel N97 1.2 GHz 12 W Intel Processor N100 3.4 GHz 0.75 GHz 6 W The CPU is part of the Twin Lake series that sits near the bottom of the N-series, designed for low- powered systems and entry-level laptops, and as such has a base level TDP of just 6W. As I have noted before, we are seeing another NAS with a great amount of RAM. It's important to mention that the ZimaBoard 2's memory is integrated into the base board (which is why they have two variants of it). As a reminder, up until a couple of years ago, it was commonplace to only get 2 or 4GB max on a flagship Synology or QNAP home NAS. Ever since the likes of TerraMaster and more have entered the market with ample RAM sizes included in their NAS offerings, it has gone a long way in forcing the hands of the traditional makers to up their game a bit. First impressions The Starter Kit came in one outer box with several packages inside it (shown above). I forgot to take pics of it because when it arrived, it wasn't clear what was inside, and I had to confirm with my contact that I received the entire Starter Kit. In the box ZimaBoard 2 ZimaBoard 2 HDD Expansion Bracket + PCIe card frame Zimaboard Mini DisplayPort Male to HDMI Female Cable 4K 60Hz Zimaboard PCIe 3.0 x4 to Dual NVMe M.2 SSD Adapter Card Quick guide [full online guide] Limited warranty notice Screws Design Where to start? You'd be forgiven for mistaking it as an SSD enclosure if not for all the ports on it. It is completely made out of metal, and the top is an entire heatsink. It has a premium feel about it, but it definitely looks like a hobby device. As you will see, the completed build looks like it belongs in a server or meter closet rather than as a showpiece on someone's desk. On what I am calling the rear, there's a Mini DisplayPort (1.4), two 2.5 GbE ports, with Type A 3.1 USB ports, and then the barrel connector port. Around the front, there are two SATA6 ports with a power connector in the middle. Left side Right side One side is completely free of ports. On the other there's a slit that allows for the feed of a CPU fan cable, and a PCIe 3.0 X4 slot. Top Bottom The top is entirely made up of a heatsink except for the extended height for the I/O on the rear. Around the other side, you can find the ZIMA branding and some regulatory information stamped near the bottom. As you may see from the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2, it scratches quite easily from just moving it around on my Ikea island. Teardown Before we get started, let's have a look at this thing on the inside. The steps to get to the board are as follows: Remove the four smaller Torx screws on the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2; Remove the four larger Torx screws on the sides of the device; Carefully unstick the CMOS battery from the PCB; Remove two Phillips screws on the PCB; Lift out the PCB. Yes, as you can tell from the instructions, you need three different tools to remove Torx and Phillips screws (10 in total), and unhelpfully, one of the screws is located under the CMOS battery, which is stuck onto the PCB. Building Now comes the fun part. Because the ZimaSpace website does not provide any guidance on how to put the Starter Kit together. They only have guidance for connecting the CPU fan. However, they did upload a video to their YouTube channel that shows the entire process. 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PCIe card frame Other side PCIe slot connector Next, it's time to attach the PCIe card frame, which is fastened with the help of 3.5-inch SATA HDD (3 screws). These are toolless screws that you can just use your fingers to fasten them with. Then it is time to connect the provided PCIe cable with the slot connector on one side of the ZimaBoard 2, feed it through the bottom of the HDD frame, and fasten it with two standoffs. Both bracket options 2280 standoffs with 2x 4TB MP44Q The PCIe 3.0 X4 card comes with a short bracket option, handy if you decide to place it inside a different NAS or rack server, but here we need the long bracket. Oddly enough, the M.2 standoffs were preinstalled into the 22110 position, but extra standoffs are included in the box, which I installed at the 2280 position for our use. I added a couple of MP44Q M.2 PCIe 4.0 SSDs (2 x 4TB) that can be availed on Amazon for $478.99 (the lowest price for 3 months) that TEAMGROUP supplied us with Then we have the almost completed build, you just need to push the card into the PCIe slot. Unfortunately, IceWhale Technologies did not provide a screw for the PCIe card frame (this is also apparent in their own video). Here it is at several different angles, with the last pic showing the SATA Y-Cable connected to the two WD Red Plus 4TB drives. Setup and Usage Next, you connect your cables to the I/O, and the ZimaBoard 2 powers on automatically, as there is no power button on the device. Power is controlled through the Settings in ZimaOS. BIOS The ZimaBoard 2 includes an Aptio BIOS from American Megatrends [1, 2, 3], and you can setup pretty much everything here including the boot order, which is locked to the UEFI OS, however above that choice you can enable or disable booting to a SATA/USB bootloader so this would still allow you to switch to an alternative bootloader and boot from it, or disable it to instead always start from the first disk with an OS installed on it. Initial Setup Upon connecting to the LAN and booting up, the ZimaBoard 2 can be reached by navigating to the IP address (shown if you have a monitor connected), or you can find it using the ZIMA Client desktop application, which is essentially a Zima device finder. Initializing the ZimaBoard 2 The ZimaOS setup process is pretty straightforward, through a wizard, and in full above, it basically consists of setting up an account and some handy tips, and that's that! 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On opening Backup, you can select internal storage folders on your phone to backup to the ZimaBoard 2's storage, and although this is constantly scanned, the backup action itself must be manually triggered. There is an option to allow foreground backup (last image in the above gallery), but this basically means the queued backup gets triggered when you manually open the app. Benchmarking SATA PCIe 3.0 X4 A CrystalDiskMark test on a mapped network drive from within a Windows 11 25H2 PC (image above) connected over a 2.5 GbE was well within acceptable ranges. Writes were generally better on the SSD RAID mirror. SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 I also ran the NAS Performance tester, which tests the link speed performance. As you can see, it pretty much maxes out the 2.5GbE connection. Of course, you can also opt to bond the two 2.5 GbE connections for a bit more umph, but I didn't do that. Thermals Top PCIe card SATA HDDs Next, I measured some hotspots while playing content on Plex. It's fair to say this will perform better than a NAS that is enclosed in a metal or plastic case, as almost everything storage-wise is exposed! Anyway, the ZimaBoard 2 did not break a sweat with Plex streaming or disk benchmarks. ZimaOS Factory Reset ZimaOS does not include a factory reset option. Instead, you have to download the ZimaOS image and flash it to the eMMC manually. The flashing process is shown in the above gallery. The steps to do so are listed below: Download the ZimaOS image here; Open BalenaEtcher (Run as Administrator) and select the image; Select your inserted USB drive (min 8 GB) Flash to it; Connect your USB drive, monitor, keyboard, USB hub (optional), mouse (optional), and network cable (recommended) to the ZimaBoard 2; Connect power and press F11 continuously; Select your USB drive starting with UEFI in the boot device menu; Press Enter on the Install ZimaOS option; Select /dev/mmcblk0 (MMC) flash drive as target; Confirm with (three times) to wipe the target disk; Wait a couple of minutes while ZimaOS installs; Remove the USB drive and confirm with a reboot; Your ZimaBoard 2 has been factory reset. However, you don't have to stick with ZimaOS, in fact the company also offers official CasaOS images, that are based on Debian; or as they say themselves, put anything you want on this "hackable single board server" it's up to you. Conclusion I had a lot of fun putting this together. I've custom-built all my own PCs and servers since the 90s, and this is the first time I have had to put a NAS together. Even if the actual base ZimaBoard 2 was already a completed build, it still feels pretty custom. I just wish that IceWhale Technology included a getting-started guide in the box for the Start Kit, which would have really completed this kit. Instead, I had to search for the official video on the YouTube channel to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. So who is this for? Definitely the hobbyist who is comfortable building their own PC and servers. It also has a much smaller footprint than its nearest equivalent (in terms of specs), like the Beelink Me Pro, which is another NAS I will be testing soon. Although the Beelink does not come with the PCIe 3.0 X4 expansion, the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit suddenly looks to be a great bargain, even if it only offers the two 3.5-inch bays over the four in the other example. It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N150 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the ZimaBoard 2 is intended for, media streaming and backup. It also looks like the IceWhale Technology staff are quite active in the official forums helping people with issues they come across with ZimaOS and the devices, peer support seems to be good as well, I was quickly able to find why I was not able to create a new Storage Pool in ZimaOS v1.6.1 even though that is quite a serious bug, hopefully it will be fixed in the next update. If you are comfortable with the command line and Docker, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. This was my first time with ZimaOS. It seems a bit barebones in comparison to the likes of Synology DSM, TOS, and UGOS, but it has a ton of apps to get you started with your home or small business NAS. Where to buy As of publishing, IceWhale Technology is running a discount of up to 5% for the Starter Kit. If you opt to get just the ZimaBoard 2 itself, it does come with a SATA Y-Cable, so you will be able to connect up to two 3.5-inch HDDs to it. ZimaBoard 2 1668 Starter Kit for $534.50 on Amazon US (was $548.60) ZimaBoard 2 832 Starter Kit for $372.88 on Amazon US (was $390.60) Zimaboard 2 1668 (16GB+64GB) for $419.90 on Amazon US Zimaboard 2 832 (8GB+32GB) for $359.90 on Amazon Disclosure: IceWhale Technology provided a free sample without any editorial input or review pre-approval. Good to know The Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. 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    • It's in the Insider's group so yes it's technically beta, though these days it's hard to see much of a difference unless you opt for the most extreme beta builds, which I don't. When I moved here from the Release Preview channel I did so primarily because I wanted to see how well the restored taskbar functionality (restored from Win10, and earlier) is working and whether it was time to finally abandon SAB--and it is--working fine, so far. Not as polished as SAB, but it'll do for me.
    • I've been using MWB Premium for a number of years so that along with Windows updates and updated browser should be fine. Thanks for that.
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