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WoW Lead Designer: Single-Player Gaming is Dead

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#61 Sylar0

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:38

No way this guy is talking out of his ass has everyone forgotten that MMO gaming is only one type of PC game? What about all the 1990s and 2000s stuff it was gold. Theme Hospital, The Sims (1), Rollercoaster Tycoon series, SimCity series, GTA for god’s sake! I’m sorry maybe imp anti-social when it comes to gaming but I don’t want to have to connect with others in every PC game I play sometimes you VS the games code is enough. All the games are fundamentally primarily single player experiences and other than the fact these series (Sims, SimCity, rollercoaster tycoon, GTA) continue to exist their seems a fundamental problem in porting these kinds of experiences to an MMO environment. Not to mention every other game is now a shooter... but this doesn’t change the augment against MMO personally if I was into shooters and im not id want single player to. Im in my early 20s but ill say it already these kids today do not know the joy of playing a game of The Sims all day.


#62 Kirkburn

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:13

a lot of them......


You can't just wave you arms and say 'a lot'. If you don't know what percentage of people mod SimCity, you cannot say SimCity sales rely on modding. Though, I'm certainly not saying modding is 'a bad thing', I think it's easy to overestimate it's worth. It's not like Skyrim relies on mods to sell, even though it has a very healthy modding community.

No way this guy is talking out of his ass has everyone forgotten that MMO gaming is only one type of PC game? What about all the 1990s and 2000s stuff it was gold. Theme Hospital, The Sims (1), Rollercoaster Tycoon series, SimCity series, GTA for god’s sake! I’m sorry maybe imp anti-social when it comes to gaming but I don’t want to have to connect with others in every PC game I play sometimes you VS the games code is enough. All the games are fundamentally primarily single player experiences and other than the fact these series (Sims, SimCity, rollercoaster tycoon, GTA) continue to exist their seems a fundamental problem in porting these kinds of experiences to an MMO environment. Not to mention every other game is now a shooter... but this doesn’t change the augment against MMO personally if I was into shooters and im not id want single player to. Im in my early 20s but ill say it already these kids today do not know the joy of playing a game of The Sims all day.


He's not just talking about MMOs, and it is his point that the state of business today is not the same as in the 1990s, or much of the early 2000s.

He's not saying he doesn't want single player games. I mean, he actually called the current state of play "really sad".

#63 briangw

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:08

It's been explained several times in the thread, in regards to the context of the article.


Exactly. What he fails to point out is the lack of bringing up various demographics like who doesn't have Internet access and games, who has ****ty Internet access and games, and who prefers SP and/or MP.

#64 Lord Method Man

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:32

Exactly. What he fails to point out is the lack of bringing up various demographics like who doesn't have Internet access and games, who has ****ty Internet access and games, and who prefers SP and/or MP.


Because none of that is relevant to the specifics of the question. The point is that its getting harder to see justifiable returns on huge budget single player titles, and he was in fact lamenting that fact whereas most of the knee-jerk replies here seem to think he was celebrating it.

But go ahead, ignore all that and just keep pretending this guy came out attacking single-player games as unwanted, unpopular releases and using astoundingly mature critiques such as "This no talent a$$ clown doesn't have a clue." because as we all know you know SO MUCH more about the gaming industry than this guy. Heck I bet you had to budget out 5 or 6 AAA game titles just this morning.

#65 briangw

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:50

Because none of that is relevant to the specifics of the question. The point is that its getting harder to see justifiable returns on huge budget single player titles, and he was in fact lamenting that fact whereas most of the knee-jerk replies here seem to think he was celebrating it.

But go ahead, ignore all that and just keep pretending this guy came out attacking single-player games as unwanted, unpopular releases and using astoundingly mature critiques such as "This no talent a$$ clown doesn't have a clue." because as we all know you know SO MUCH more about the gaming industry than this guy. Heck I bet you had to budget out 5 or 6 AAA game titles just this morning.


Gee, that's funny because we've got a laundry list of SP and/or SP/MP games that have done well (and look to do well in the future) return-wise:


Skyrim
Batman: Arkham City
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Max Payne 3
Civilization V
The Witcher 2
X-COM: Enemy Unknown
Metro: Last Light
Dishonored
Watchdogs
GTA V
Assassin's Creed 3
Dead Space 3
Crysis 3
Bioshock: Infinite
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Mass Effect 3
Portal 2
Total War: Shogun 2
Hitman: Absolution
Far Cry 3
SimCity
Tomb Raider
Dragon Age III

He talked out of his a$$ without actually looking at the numbers. He's a lead designer not a forecaster. But you know what? This has been brought up before and we still see big budget SP games, so obviously returns must be working or they wouldn't be making any money. :rolleyes:

#66 Lord Method Man

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:57

I'm not getting into a stupid bickering match. Of course there are successful SP games still, and there will continue to be, but the risk of making them is increasing as the cost of producing them goes up with each generation of gaming. Notice how already games have to have their profits bolstered by microtransactional DLC.

Expect that kind of thing to grow more and more in the coming years. Either AAA releases will have to start selling in the $80 range or have the bulk of their content withheld from release and sold back to customers via DLC (as Capcom has already been doing.)

#67 HawkMan

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 19:13

And the point repeatedly made, is that there's ust as big, if not bigger risk in triple A Multuiplayer titles, especially MMO's.

in the last few years, I don't recall any studios going under because their triple A SP game was crap. but how many MMO's and MP games crashed and burned and brought their studio with them.

it's not an issue with SP or MP, it's an issue with Triple A, and the fact that they cost a ******** to develop today, with advanced code, artwork that includes movie studio quality 3D models, that have to be redone in both low res and high res(game quality) models, for normal maps to be applied to, high quality music and sound effects.

Triple A games today cost more than movies to make, and they need to succeed to they kill the studio, unless you're owned by EA or it's like. even then your studio is likely to go the way of the Dodo. And on top of that, MP games unlike what he claims, are more risky than SP.

#68 Kirkburn

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 20:45

And the point repeatedly made, is that there's ust as big, if not bigger risk in triple A Multuiplayer titles, especially MMO's.

in the last few years, I don't recall any studios going under because their triple A SP game was crap. but how many MMO's and MP games crashed and burned and brought their studio with them.

it's not an issue with SP or MP, it's an issue with Triple A, and the fact that they cost a ******** to develop today, with advanced code, artwork that includes movie studio quality 3D models, that have to be redone in both low res and high res(game quality) models, for normal maps to be applied to, high quality music and sound effects.

Triple A games today cost more than movies to make, and they need to succeed to they kill the studio, unless you're owned by EA or it's like. even then your studio is likely to go the way of the Dodo. And on top of that, MP games unlike what he claims, are more risky than SP.

Note: no-one is saying that SP games cost more than MMOs or MP. I don't entirely understand why you would suggest SP would be equal in cost to the others though, MMOs certainly cost more, and multiplayer is often the second half to a single player game (Halo, CoD, etc.) and requires longer-term investment.

The overall issue is the return on whatever investment was made.

Honestly you have made a lot of assertions, but it's pretty difficult to say whether they are true:
  • That AAA SP games don't kill studios
  • Whereas AAA MMO and MP games have killed a fair few
  • What is 'an MP game'? Does it include hybrid SP+MP games (e.g. Halo), or just MP-only games (e.g. Team Fortress)?
Games in any genre can kill studios. Amalur wasn't a bad game, and it still died. Psychonauts was an excellent game, but it nearly killed Double Fine. Brutal Legend was good, and it nearly killed them again.

Regardless, this is hardly a clear-cut area. But I would imagine someone who is actually in the business of making games would have a reasonable idea of how easy it is to make a AAA single player only game these days, better than most of us.

#69 Emn1ty

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:10

The overall issue is the return on whatever investment was made.


I think Single player games have just as much risk vs. reward as multiplayer games.

Single player games can be hit or miss, but most of the time they do well possibly because similar time and money can be spent on refining the game, adding content and constantly providing new content (dlc, expansion, etc). Multiplayer games not only take more time (for example, balancing, a whole different ballpark of playtesting) but more resources and money to setup and sustain (servers, bug fixes, etc) and can drastically change the way the game is made in its entirety (badnwidth). Multiplayer games require much more hands on looking after than single player games do. Where in Skyrim if there is a bug you can wait for a patch, in MW3 if the bug is serious enough (say shooting someone always counts as a headshot, or too many grenades going off at once crashes the game) then they cannot wait.

As a result, by definition, MP games must see a bigger return due to a larger investment initially. In the end that balances out quite nicely. The other nice thing about single player games is that if it is really good, it will be purchased for longer periods of time even if there are sequels, and can easily be resold as full set editions/extended editions etc. With MP based games that doesn't happen, since the userbase will usually move on to the newest game and abandon the old one, again making it a necessity to get immediate returns (and large ones) on MP focused games if we assume that most if not all MP games are 2-3 years maximum before a sequel is released (at least in the AAA realm). People still buy Halo CE, 2 & 3, Assassins Creed games, Mass Effect games, God of War 1-3, Dead Space 1/2, Fear 1-3, etc. Who buys CoD: MW these days?

#70 soniqstylz

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:00

Skyrim
Batman: Arkham City
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - has multiplayer
Max Payne 3
Civilization V - has multiplayer
The Witcher 2
X-COM: Enemy Unknown
Metro: Last Light
Dishonored
Watchdogs - has multiplayer / co-op
GTA V - has multiplayer
Assassin's Creed 3 - has multiplayer
Dead Space 3 - may suck, DS2 has multiplayer
Crysis 3 - has multiplayer
Bioshock: Infinite
Aliens: Colonial Marines - has multiplayer
Mass Effect 3 - has multiplayer
Portal 2 - has multiplayer / co-op
Total War: Shogun 2
Hitman: Absolution
Far Cry 3 - has multiplayer
SimCity
Tomb Raider
Dragon Age III - may suck

I don't need to say anything more.



#71 The King of GnG

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:10

I only play single-player games. So I'm dead, according to this *******. Funny as I still consider myself pretty much alive every time I look at the mirror in the morning....

#72 remixedcat

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:37

MMOs cost more becuase they have to pay to run the servers

#73 Mike Frett

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:18

Really? Ok Blizz, so why are most of your players complaining when you try to force them to play with others?. Ok Blizz, so why is it that a lot of people buy your expansions and play through the quests (alone) and then leave because the end-game is about Social interaction?.

How about you shut your pie hole and move to Antarctica. IMO Multiplayer is DEAD.

#74 Yazoo

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:28

why is it that people think that if they don't do something then no one else does it too. The mind boggles.

Really? Ok Blizz, so why are most of your players complaining when you try to force them to play with others?. Ok Blizz, so why is it that a lot of people buy your expansions and play through the quests (alone) and then leave because the end-game is about Social interaction?.

How about you shut your pie hole and move to Antarctica. IMO Multiplayer is DEAD.


lol how do you know most of Blizz players are complaining about co-op play? :s

#75 Rudy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:20

Personally I don't play multiplayer at all (unless it's local multiplayer), so I sure hope it's not really dead lol



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