Windows 8 : A step backwards for the .net famework?


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I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

I don't know WTF you're talking about because .Net never "just worked" on 7.... can't tell you how much of a huge pain in the ass .net is for when you're trying to deploy applications, not matter what OS they're running.

I don't know WTF you're talking about because .Net never "just worked" on 7.... can't tell you how much of a huge pain in the ass .net is for when you're trying to deploy applications, not matter what OS they're running.

Well in the case of applications that required dotnet 2.0 like patchmypc and CDburner XP they always "just worked". Now they don't anymore.

Every version of Windows ships with the newest version of the framework. Windows 8 ships with version 4.5. Most apps should run against it regardless of what they were written for, but if the app author specified that a specific version was required (i.e. 2.0-3.5 in your case) then it will be downloaded and installed on-demand. Including this by default would have taken up significant disk space when most people will never use it. Even in cases like yours, this step will go away if the app author removes the version requirement from their app, or builds it against .NET 4.x.

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I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

Windows 7 includes the .NET 3.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 3.5, 3.0 and 2.0)

Windows 8 includes the .NET 4.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 4.5 and 4.0)

As you stated in your post, if you have an app built with < .NET 4.0 you simply have to click "yes" and it installs the framework with no problems. What is there to be 'annoyed' about?

Windows 7 includes the .NET 3.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 3.5, 3.0 and 2.0)

Windows 8 includes the .NET 4.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 4.5 and 4.0)

As you stated in your post, if you have an app built with < .NET 4.0 you simply have to click "yes" and it installs the framework with no problems. What is there to be 'annoyed' about?

Because of how long .net takes to install. Do you know .net 4 can sometimes take more than 5 minutes to install?

Cant you spare 5 mins? It's not like you have to install it every day ;)

In the case of patchmypc I run it on every machine I work on. (though in this case he could fix it in his code)

Not crying, just saying never was an issue on windows 7.

That's because .NET Framework 3.5 was the latest version 3 whole years ago, when Windows 7 was released. You can't blame Microsoft for this, when the developer has had over 2 years to update their app (since .NET Framework 4.0 was released). It isn't Microsoft's fault that his app "just worked" on Windows 7 and it doesn't on Windows 8; it's up to the developer to ensure their app works. Microsoft doesn't update developers' apps for them, and you can't expect them to.

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Not crying, just saying never was an issue on windows 7.

Actually the exact same issue existed on Windows 7 for apps which required .NET 1.x. The main thing that's changed in Windows 8 is that instead of the older versions being on the install disc, the bits are now downloaded from WU. This saves space on install discs / OEM images, and ensures you always get the latest version (versus having to install the on-disc one, then download the latest SP and security updates).

That's because .NET Framework 3.5 was the latest version 3 whole years ago, when Windows 7 was released. You can't blame Microsoft for this, when the developer has had over 2 years to update his app (since .NET Framework 4.0 was released). It isn't Microsoft's fault that his app "just worked" on Windows 7 and it doesn't on Windows 8; it's up to the developer to ensure their app works. Microsoft doesn't update developers' apps for them, and you can't expect them to.

Precisely.

As I myself have pointed out, whenever any application need an older version of *any* runtime (.NET, DirectX, VC++, etc.) Windows 8 goes and fetches it if it's not already installed - and it only has to do it *once*. I have two games (NFS: Hot Pursuit 2010 and DCUO) that require .NET 3.x; which one triggers the fetch depends on which order I install them in. However, it's ONLY triggered once. That means that by the time Office 2013 Preview gets installed (typically the last application or suite TO get installed) my runtimes have been *caught up*.

Well at least it doesn't do a cryptic error or fail silently. I hate when that happens - Do not have Visual C++ runtime 2005 - well I am going to silently fail on you and laugh at your almost futile attempts at searching the net for a solution.

This "you need old version of .Net" is properly done IMO. Fast and simple.

It's definitely a step forward.

Even better is that you can use the Windows Deployment tools to have Windows auto install it if you want, and you can enable it from "Add Windows Features".

Also, my install took about 2 minutes of downloading on terrible net and about 1.5 minutes of install. It might be due to my SSD, but I never remember .net installing that slowly..

EDIT:: The only step back is that IIS automatically uses 4.x as the framework target regardless of what you specify. Thus certain configs (like default document/connection info) bomb out if you are using an older frame work in your build.

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    • ZimaBoard 2 1664 Starter Kit review: it's a cool and affordable DIY NAS by Steven Parker IceWhale Technology reached out to me asking if I was interested in testing the ZimaBoard 2, and after convincing them to send me the Starter Kit, it arrived at my doorstep in May. A bit of background: it is a Shanghai-based Chinese company founded in 2020, which specializes in single-board servers and personal cloud solutions. From searching around online, user feedback on the company and ZimaOS is mostly positive, so we're off to a good start. In addition, I should probably point out that although they do not have a large portfolio of NAS devices, with just four of what they do offer, they seem to have covered everything from a relatively low-priced entry point with the ZimaBoard 2, right up to the high end, with the ZimaCube 2 Creator Pack that even includes an NVIDIA RTX PRO 2000. 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Processor E-cores L3-cache Turbo clock GPU GPU-clock TDP Intel N355 8 6 MB 3.9 GHz 32 EUs 1.35 GHz 9 W Intel Core 3 N350 3.9 GHz 1.35 GHz 7 W Intel Core i3-N305 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 9 W Intel Core i3-N300 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz Intel N250 4 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 6 W Intel Processor N200 3.7 GHz 0.75 GHz Intel N150 3.6 GHz 24 EUs 1 GHz Intel N97 1.2 GHz 12 W Intel Processor N100 3.4 GHz 0.75 GHz 6 W The CPU is part of the Twin Lake series that sits near the bottom of the N-series, designed for low- powered systems and entry-level laptops, and as such has a base level TDP of just 6W. As I have noted before, we are seeing another NAS with a great amount of RAM. It's important to mention that the ZimaBoard 2's memory is integrated into the base board (which is why they have two variants of it). As a reminder, up until a couple of years ago, it was commonplace to only get 2 or 4GB max on a flagship Synology or QNAP home NAS. Ever since the likes of TerraMaster and more have entered the market with ample RAM sizes included in their NAS offerings, it has gone a long way in forcing the hands of the traditional makers to up their game a bit. First impressions The Starter Kit came in one outer box with several packages inside it (shown above). I forgot to take pics of it because when it arrived, it wasn't clear what was inside, and I had to confirm with my contact that I received the entire Starter Kit. In the box ZimaBoard 2 ZimaBoard 2 HDD Expansion Bracket + PCIe card frame Zimaboard Mini DisplayPort Male to HDMI Female Cable 4K 60Hz Zimaboard PCIe 3.0 x4 to Dual NVMe M.2 SSD Adapter Card Quick guide [full online guide] Limited warranty notice Screws Design Where to start? You'd be forgiven for mistaking it as an SSD enclosure if not for all the ports on it. It is completely made out of metal, and the top is an entire heatsink. It has a premium feel about it, but it definitely looks like a hobby device. 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It's fair to say this will perform better than a NAS that is enclosed in a metal or plastic case, as almost everything storage-wise is exposed! Anyway, the ZimaBoard 2 did not break a sweat with Plex streaming or disk benchmarks. ZimaOS Factory Reset ZimaOS does not include a factory reset option. Instead, you have to download the ZimaOS image and flash it to the eMMC manually. The flashing process is shown in the above gallery. The steps to do so are listed below: Download the ZimaOS image here; Open BalenaEtcher (Run as Administrator) and select the image; Select your inserted USB drive (min 8 GB) Flash to it; Connect your USB drive, monitor, keyboard, USB hub (optional), mouse (optional), and network cable (recommended) to the ZimaBoard 2; Connect power and press F11 continuously; Select your USB drive starting with UEFI in the boot device menu; Press Enter on the Install ZimaOS option; Select /dev/mmcblk0 (MMC) flash drive as target; Confirm with (three times) to wipe the target disk; Wait a couple of minutes while ZimaOS installs; Remove the USB drive and confirm with a reboot; Your ZimaBoard 2 has been factory reset. However, you don't have to stick with ZimaOS, in fact the company also offers official CasaOS images, that are based on Debian; or as they say themselves, put anything you want on this "hackable single board server" it's up to you. Conclusion I had a lot of fun putting this together. I've custom-built all my own PCs and servers since the 90s, and this is the first time I have had to put a NAS together. Even if the actual base ZimaBoard 2 was already a completed build, it still feels pretty custom. I just wish that IceWhale Technology included a getting-started guide in the box for the Start Kit, which would have really completed this kit. Instead, I had to search for the official video on the YouTube channel to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. So who is this for? Definitely the hobbyist who is comfortable building their own PC and servers. It also has a much smaller footprint than its nearest equivalent (in terms of specs), like the Beelink Me Pro, which is another NAS I will be testing soon. Although the Beelink does not come with the PCIe 3.0 X4 expansion, the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit suddenly looks to be a great bargain, even if it only offers the two 3.5-inch bays over the four in the other example. It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N150 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the ZimaBoard 2 is intended for, media streaming and backup. It also looks like the IceWhale Technology staff are quite active in the official forums helping people with issues they come across with ZimaOS and the devices, peer support seems to be good as well, I was quickly able to find why I was not able to create a new Storage Pool in ZimaOS v1.6.1 even though that is quite a serious bug, hopefully it will be fixed in the next update. If you are comfortable with the command line and Docker, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. This was my first time with ZimaOS. It seems a bit barebones in comparison to the likes of Synology DSM, TOS, and UGOS, but it has a ton of apps to get you started with your home or small business NAS. Where to buy As of publishing, IceWhale Technology is running a discount of up to 5% for the Starter Kit. If you opt to get just the ZimaBoard 2 itself, it does come with a SATA Y-Cable, so you will be able to connect up to two 3.5-inch HDDs to it. ZimaBoard 2 1668 Starter Kit for $534.50 on Amazon US (was $548.60) ZimaBoard 2 832 Starter Kit for $372.88 on Amazon US (was $390.60) Zimaboard 2 1668 (16GB+64GB) for $419.90 on Amazon US Zimaboard 2 832 (8GB+32GB) for $359.90 on Amazon Disclosure: IceWhale Technology provided a free sample without any editorial input or review pre-approval. Good to know The Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. 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    • It's in the Insider's group so yes it's technically beta, though these days it's hard to see much of a difference unless you opt for the most extreme beta builds, which I don't. When I moved here from the Release Preview channel I did so primarily because I wanted to see how well the restored taskbar functionality (restored from Win10, and earlier) is working and whether it was time to finally abandon SAB--and it is--working fine, so far. Not as polished as SAB, but it'll do for me.
    • I've been using MWB Premium for a number of years so that along with Windows updates and updated browser should be fine. Thanks for that.
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