Windows 8 : A step backwards for the .net famework?

By +Warwagon
in Microsoft (Windows)

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Grand Master

+Warwagon MVC

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I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

Veteran

siah1214

Posted
Posted

I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

I don't know WTF you're talking about because .Net never "just worked" on 7.... can't tell you how much of a huge pain in the ass .net is for when you're trying to deploy applications, not matter what OS they're running.

Grand Master

+Warwagon MVC

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  • Author
  • MVC
Posted

I don't know WTF you're talking about because .Net never "just worked" on 7.... can't tell you how much of a huge pain in the ass .net is for when you're trying to deploy applications, not matter what OS they're running.

Well in the case of applications that required dotnet 2.0 like patchmypc and CDburner XP they always "just worked". Now they don't anymore.

Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

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  • Veteran
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Every version of Windows ships with the newest version of the framework. Windows 8 ships with version 4.5. Most apps should run against it regardless of what they were written for, but if the app author specified that a specific version was required (i.e. 2.0-3.5 in your case) then it will be downloaded and installed on-demand. Including this by default would have taken up significant disk space when most people will never use it. Even in cases like yours, this step will go away if the app author removes the version requirement from their app, or builds it against .NET 4.x.

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ZakO

Posted
Posted

I?ve never been a fan of the .net framework. It always takes forever to install and back in the XP days most machines didn?t have it. Well .net still takes forever to install but in Windows 7 anything that required.net ?Just workes?.

Now in Windows 8 all of that is changing again. Last night I went to open up ?Patchmypc? on my windows 8 machine. I was prompted that I did not have 2.0 or 3.5 and it gave me the option to install it. So I clicked install and 5 mins later it had downloaded and installed and I could use ?Patchmypc?. This was never an issue on windows 7 it just worked.

Now I?m becoming annoyed with .net all over again.

Windows 7 includes the .NET 3.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 3.5, 3.0 and 2.0)

Windows 8 includes the .NET 4.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 4.5 and 4.0)

As you stated in your post, if you have an app built with < .NET 4.0 you simply have to click "yes" and it installs the framework with no problems. What is there to be 'annoyed' about?

Grand Master

+Warwagon MVC

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  • Author
  • MVC
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Windows 7 includes the .NET 3.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 3.5, 3.0 and 2.0)

Windows 8 includes the .NET 4.5 runtime (which has support for .NET 4.5 and 4.0)

As you stated in your post, if you have an app built with < .NET 4.0 you simply have to click "yes" and it installs the framework with no problems. What is there to be 'annoyed' about?

Because of how long .net takes to install. Do you know .net 4 can sometimes take more than 5 minutes to install?

Grand Master

+Warwagon MVC

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  • Author
  • MVC
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Cant you spare 5 mins? It's not like you have to install it every day ;)

In the case of patchmypc I run it on every machine I work on. (though in this case he could fix it in his code)

Grand Master

Calum Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
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Not crying, just saying never was an issue on windows 7.

That's because .NET Framework 3.5 was the latest version 3 whole years ago, when Windows 7 was released. You can't blame Microsoft for this, when the developer has had over 2 years to update their app (since .NET Framework 4.0 was released). It isn't Microsoft's fault that his app "just worked" on Windows 7 and it doesn't on Windows 8; it's up to the developer to ensure their app works. Microsoft doesn't update developers' apps for them, and you can't expect them to.

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Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

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  • Veteran
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Not crying, just saying never was an issue on windows 7.

Actually the exact same issue existed on Windows 7 for apps which required .NET 1.x. The main thing that's changed in Windows 8 is that instead of the older versions being on the install disc, the bits are now downloaded from WU. This saves space on install discs / OEM images, and ensures you always get the latest version (versus having to install the on-disc one, then download the latest SP and security updates).

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

That's because .NET Framework 3.5 was the latest version 3 whole years ago, when Windows 7 was released. You can't blame Microsoft for this, when the developer has had over 2 years to update his app (since .NET Framework 4.0 was released). It isn't Microsoft's fault that his app "just worked" on Windows 7 and it doesn't on Windows 8; it's up to the developer to ensure their app works. Microsoft doesn't update developers' apps for them, and you can't expect them to.

Precisely.

As I myself have pointed out, whenever any application need an older version of *any* runtime (.NET, DirectX, VC++, etc.) Windows 8 goes and fetches it if it's not already installed - and it only has to do it *once*. I have two games (NFS: Hot Pursuit 2010 and DCUO) that require .NET 3.x; which one triggers the fetch depends on which order I install them in. However, it's ONLY triggered once. That means that by the time Office 2013 Preview gets installed (typically the last application or suite TO get installed) my runtimes have been *caught up*.

Mentor

ArialBlue

Posted
Posted

Well at least it doesn't do a cryptic error or fail silently. I hate when that happens - Do not have Visual C++ runtime 2005 - well I am going to silently fail on you and laugh at your almost futile attempts at searching the net for a solution.

This "you need old version of .Net" is properly done IMO. Fast and simple.

Grand Master

articuno1au

Posted
Posted

It's definitely a step forward.

Even better is that you can use the Windows Deployment tools to have Windows auto install it if you want, and you can enable it from "Add Windows Features".

Also, my install took about 2 minutes of downloading on terrible net and about 1.5 minutes of install. It might be due to my SSD, but I never remember .net installing that slowly..

EDIT:: The only step back is that IIS automatically uses 4.x as the framework target regardless of what you specify. Thus certain configs (like default document/connection info) bomb out if you are using an older frame work in your build.

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