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#1 Andre S.

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 21:53

Once again I fail at setting up networks and require your help.

I was previously on ADSL with a modem (Motorola Netopia 2210-02) and a router (Rosewill RNX-N150RT). The modem acted as the DHCP server and was plugged into one of the non-WAN ports of the router along with all the other computers. I could access the router on 192.168.1.1 (its default page), the computers on 192.168.1.2-6 and the modem on 192.168.1.254. I could access both router and modem admin pages with a web browser at these addresses.

Now we changed services and are now with a cable modem. I first tried pluggin the cable modem directly into a PC to check if it was working, I could access its admin page at 192.168.100.1 (it's a Motorola SB5101). After I verified it was connecting to the internet fine, I put the router between the two like I was doing before (both plugged into non-WAN ports) and rebooted the devices. I can access the internet just fine with all PCs now, but I can't access the admin pages anymore! 192.168.1.1 doesn't answer a ping (it says delay exceeded), 192.168.100.1 answers a ping but gives 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE) when I try to access it through a web browser.

The default gateway for the PCs is still 192.168.1.1.

Any ideas?


#2 pes2013

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 21:59

I was previously on ADSL with a modem (Motorola Netopia 2210-02) and a router (Rosewill RNX-N150RT). The modem acted as the DHCP server

Why?

and was plugged into one of the non-WAN ports of the router along with all the other computers.

Again, why?

I could access the router on 192.168.1.1 (its default page), the computers on 192.168.1.2-6 and the modem on 192.168.1.254. I could access both router and modem admin pages with a web browser at these addresses.

The only reason that makes sense, since you mentioned this, is that you can reach the modem and router admin pages but it doesn't make much sense why would you want to read the modem admin page.


Now we changed services and are now with a cable modem. I first tried pluggin the cable modem directly into a PC to check if it was working, I could access its admin page at 192.168.100.1 (it's a Motorola SB5101). After I verified it was connecting to the internet fine, I put the router between the two like I was doing before (both plugged into non-WAN ports) and rebooted the devices. I can access the internet just fine with all PCs now, but I can't access the admin pages anymore! 192.168.1.1 doesn't answer a ping (it says delay exceeded), 192.168.100.1 answers a ping but gives 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE) when I try to access it through a web browser.

The default gateway for the PCs is still 192.168.1.1.

Any ideas?

Well, im interested why you don't plug it into the WAN port like a normal human being :p

#3 Jason Stillion

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 22:07

I suspect one of the routers has the same IP address to access the control panel as the modem.
See if you can change the base address of the router from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.2.1
I might be off on this...

Or the modem is acting like a network, and the router is acting like a second router and going through the second router, it can't reach the specific IP of the modem.

(edit)

I think the problem is similar to what I had when I had two routers and devices could not see other device on the opposite router.

I essentially disabled DHCP on the 2nd router and pointed DHCP server control to the 1st one.
This made the 2nd router an extension of existing network vs standalone.
This allows all the devices on either router to see each other.

#4 OP Andre S.

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 22:22

Well now this is getting interesting. I plugged the same PC back directly on the modem, rebooted the modem, and now I can't access its admin page at its address anymore, same error, 324.

Hm... it looks like I can access the page for about 10 seconds every time I reboot the modem, just when it starts. Then after that every attempt to access the page results in error 324. There's no reset button anywhere on the thing.

@pes2013 the modem acted as a DHCP server because it did so by default, so I simply disabled DHCP on the router. Everything was connected into non-WAN ports because it just worked that way.

#5 PGHammer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 22:45

I suspect one of the routers has the same IP address to access the control panel as the modem.
See if you can change the base address of the router from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.2.1
I might be off on this...

Or the modem is acting like a network, and the router is acting like a second router and going through the second router, it can't reach the specific IP of the modem.

(edit)

I think the problem is similar to what I had when I had two routers and devices could not see other device on the opposite router.

I essentially disabled DHCP on the 2nd router and pointed DHCP server control to the 1st one.
This made the 2nd router an extension of existing network vs standalone.
This allows all the devices on either router to see each other.


The issue is multiple DHCP servers and they have identical IP addresses (the root addresses of the Class C block of 192.168.xxx.xxx are commonly used by all sorts of routers, xDSL and otherwise - 192.168.0.1, 192.168.1.1, and 192.168.100.1 - the first one is seldom used by non-Cisco or even non-Netgear routers, the second one is commonly used by routers and cable modems of all brands, and the last is used by most Motorola xDSL and cable modems, such as your Netopia and current SURFboard).

You will need to change the default IP block used by the router to a class D block further *downrange* (I generally use 192.168.101.xxx *or* 192.168.002.xxx - whichever floats your boat) - that way you can still access the modem's 192.168.100.1 homepage for diagnostics. (I have an ARRIS WBM-760A cable modem that uses the same IP defaults common to the Motorola SURFboards; this one, in fact, replaced a SURFboard SB-5120. It replaced the SURFboard due to it supporting DOCSIS 3.0 *and* gigabit - the SB-512x supported neither.)

#6 remixedcat

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 23:08

when you change services it's always a good idea to reset BOTH devices (modem and router) to resolve any conflicts that both may have....

do the 30/30/30 reset and see if it helps.

you may have to do a hardware reset as well... this might resolve your url access problem as well...

also re-run the connection wizard on the router so it will auto-detect settings instead of doing it manually as well.

some routers have a quick setup url like setup.ampedwireless.com is how I can access my router's config. yours might be routerlogin.net or myrouter.com or whatever.

now if you have muliple devices that use that same url from one brand, for example, a router and an access point, or a router and a repeater, then you will need to access the setup url by typing in the second device's IP address, as there will be conflicts with the domain.

#7 Detection

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 23:17

The issue is multiple DHCP servers


+1

#8 OP Andre S.

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:48

The issue is multiple DHCP servers

The issue can't be multiple DHCP servers when I connect the modem directly to a PC, I can access the config page for the first 10 seconds and then after I get the same error 324.

Anyway this is ****ing the **** out of me. I set it up this way:

Modem set as DHCP server - doesn't seem to be any way to set it otherwise, anyway I don't have much time to get into its setting page
Router has DHCP disabled
Modem is plugged into WAN port of router
PCs are plugged into LAN ports of router
Booted both devices - internet worked for all computers including wireless. I could access the router at 192.168.1.1, but the modem was nowhere to be found.

Then it just randomly stopped working for every computer except for one, my brother was playing SC1 online and it was still working for him. I tried unplugging my ethernet cable from the router but that disconnected him as well, illogically.

So I tried rebooting both devices and that didn't work, couldn't even access the router.
So I factory resetted the router, now I could access it, but no internet.
Did the same thing I did before, disabled DHCP on the router, rebooted.
Now I get internet on all the computers that were connected on Ethernet at the time I rebooted. Those I connected after don't work. Those on wireless don't work. When I try ipconfig /renew, it says the DHCP server timed out. Those that don't work don't have default gateways. For those that have default gateways, trying to access that page at that gateway address (which doesn't start with 192.168...) does nothing.

Btw this thread should be under Internet Network and Security, misread the title section before I posted.

when you change services it's always a good idea to reset BOTH devices (modem and router) to resolve any conflicts that both may have....

It's a new modem and it doesn't seem to have any reset button. I factory resetted the router multiple times now (only way to get the connection back up when it goes down apparently).

#9 remixedcat

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:55

does your router have a domain setup for accessing the config?

also does your modem have a backup battery?

#10 Crisp

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:56

Can you change the IP range on the modem? If so, set modem to 192.168.0.1, same for DHCP server; 192.168.0.2 ~ 192.168.0.XXX
Then plug modem into WAN port on router, and set router IP to 192.168.1.1, with DHCP server as; 192.168.1.2 ~ 192.168.1.XXX

That way, you can access modem and router seperate. 192.168.0.1 for modem and 192.168.1.1 for router.

Edit: Nevermind, thought you were having problems with a DSL modem.

#11 OP Andre S.

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:23

does your router have a domain setup for accessing the config?

What does that mean? The default address is 192.168.1.1.

also does your modem have a backup battery?

I have no idea. It's a motorola SB5101U.

I think I'm starting to figure out what's going on. This doesn't work at all like a DSL modem. It only acts as a DHCP server while it's not connected to the internet; after that, it's just a bridge that gets a public IP address assigned from the ISP. So what I should probably do is set the router to act as DHCP server, disconnect it from the modem, reboot the modem, wait until it connects, and only then plug it into the router. Does that make sense? I'll try that asap.

#12 remixedcat

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:42

well some routers have a domain setup for the router's config so if you forget the IP address or whatever you can still access the router's config by typing in a url into the address bar.

usually something like routerlogin.net myrouter.com or setup.myrouter.com or setup.routerconfig.com or whatever....

mine is setup.ampedwireless.com and it resolves to my router's IP 192.168.3.1 (but if it's changed it still will point to the router) mine has a domain option in the LAN settings

#13 vetCalum

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 13:31

Thread moved, at the thread author's request

#14 +BudMan

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 13:47

"it's just a bridge that gets a public IP address assigned from the ISP."

Exactly -- before you were just using your router as Accesspoint for wireless sounds like - or you would of been double natting. Before you had a gateway device (modem/router combo) Now you just have a MODEM.. It just bridges you from your ethernet connection to the connection from your cable company.

It gives you a PUBLIC IP on the internet - so if you want to have multiple devices behind only 1 public IP, then you need a nat router.

So shutdown everything - since your modem will cache last mac connected to it. Then boot the modem, give it time to get online. Then connect your routers WAN port to the modem, and your pcs to one of the lan ports and you will be good to go.

#15 OP Andre S.

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:38

So shutdown everything - since your modem will cache last mac connected to it. Then boot the modem, give it time to get online. Then connect your routers WAN port to the modem, and your pcs to one of the lan ports and you will be good to go.

Yeah, I did exactly that yesterday and it finally worked.

Only problem remains now that I can't access the modem's configuration page, although that's not a huge deal. I don't even know on which address it's supposed to be. Its reserved address 192.168.100.1 returns error 324 when I contact it, which it seems to always do once it's connected to the internet. My router is configured to start IP addresses at 192.168.1.100, so I tried the first few, 100, 101, 102, 103, to no avail.