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san rafael corporate power hefty fine

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#1 Hum

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 15:08

If you get caught in a carpool lane, you face a hefty fine.

We met a Bay Area man who intentionally drove alone in the carpool lanes in hopes of getting a ticket - not to pay the fine, but to prove a point.

San Rafael's Jonathan Frieman is now fighting a ticket he received for driving alone in the carpool lane, saying that he did have a passenger at the time he was pulled over. That passenger was his corporation papers, which he carried with him in the passengers seat.

Frieman sees the ticket as a chance to legally comment on the definition of a corporation as being a person.

He got the ticket back in October, but he claims he wasn't really driving alone because he had his corporation papers with him and a corporation is a person under the law.

Frieman says his fight isn't about traffic, but about corporate power.

"I'm just arresting their power and using it for my service to drive in the carpool lane," Frieman said.

USF law professor Robert Talbot says the point is a little bit of a stretch.

Talbot said the point of the carpool lane law is to get cars off the road and Frieman is steering away from the intent of the law.

"A court might say well it says person and a corporation is a person so that'll work for the carpool lane it's possible but I doubt it," Talbot said.

Frieman said he is hoping to take his case well beyond a Marin County traffic hearing, which is scheduled for Monday.

He wants corporate personhood and the protections corporation have to be debated in a higher court. He says he wants to turn that legal definition on its head.

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#2 BajiRav

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 15:26

Good for him.

#3 SoCalRox

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 15:31

The technical term for this guy is "idiot." Someone should point out to him that the incorporation papers isn't the same as the corporation. And that it won't work anyway.

Well, maybe in California. Lived there for years. Lots of nut cases on the bench who are stupid enough to fall for such silly logic.

#4 Salutary7

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 16:09

Well, it's a good reminder of how stupid some judicial decisions on corporate personhood really were. The term "person" was originally inserted to force debts to be paid, which previously were only legally binding between two or more persons. Now it's turned into a sideshow where corporations try to claim they have the same rights as actual US citizens and are sometimes successful.

#5 Jason S.

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 16:14

They should just change the law to say "homosapien"

#6 Jason Stillion

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 16:15

From what I've been reading, he's been doing this for a while hoping to get caught (which took a while) and using the same argument the supreme court ruled why a corporation is a "person". He's objective is to challenge corporation as a person status.

#7 OP Hum

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 20:12

They should fine him big time, for such a lame excuse.

Paper is not equal to a live human being.

#8 vetneufuse

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 20:48

They should fine him big time, for such a lame excuse.

Paper is not equal to a live human being.


but that is exactly what he is TRYING to prove... he's using imagery to prove that a corporation on paper != a person, which the supreme court apparently said in recent rulings that a corporation does count as a person

#9 OP Hum

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 20:50

^ Then a lot of those corporate 'persons' would be in prison for murder. ;)

#10 Geoffrey B.

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 20:55

reminds me of community when Subway was a person.

#11 vetneufuse

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 20:58

^ Then a lot of those corporate 'persons' would be in prison for murder. ;)


gov considers them people, people consider them thieves, gov does nothing about it... only way to get stuff to change is to fix the supreme court ruling and make the right people responsible for an entities actions, not let an entity assume the role of a living person for lobbying and other crap..

#12 Simon-

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 22:20

Nothing wrong with the conceot of a corporation, does not mean they are theives.

This guy was carrying PAPERS, not the corporation itself. The corporation as a body onky exists legally, not in the physical world, so how can they be in the car.

A stupid idea is a stupid idea and his fine will stick with hopefully some penalty for wasting the courts time.

#13 shakey

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 22:22

This guy didn't use enough "free speech" ( money ) on the officer who wrote him the ticket... :p

Remember, Money is now seen as free speech. It is legal to bribe :p

#14 Tom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 22:33

They should fine him big time, for such a lame excuse.

Paper is not equal to a live human being.


Corporations aren't human beings, yet they're treated as such by the supreme court.
Your logic is flawed.

#15 OP Hum

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 22:42

^ I was talking about physical people that take up a lot of space, have a lot of weight, therefore burn up much gas -- the very reason for car pools.