Jump to content



Photo

Speculation: Xbox technology that might be interesting for 2014

next generation xbox

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:06

I was thinking what technology Microsoft could do to spur console sales with the Next Xbox by Christmas 2014 and I came up with this.
  • Using their new projector technology (IllumiRoom) on the floor or a coffee table

Videos here (check out the note below before watching the videos)

http://research.micr....aspx?id=179795

and

http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=179806

More detailed information can be found here: http://www.patentlya...d-its-wild.html


Source for Note: http://microsoft-new...project-at-ces/


NOTE: Our system uses the appearance and the geometry of the room (captured by Kinect) to adapt the projected visuals in real-time without any need to custom pre-process the graphics. What you see in the videos below has been captured live and is not the result of any special effects added in post production.



  • Using Kinect 2.0 which is improved movement and can now detect fingers and can work with and scan much smaller spaces and environments
  • Using (OPTIONAL) Wireless 3-D Glasses (This would be optional, but you could see the projection in 3-D, while interacting using Kinect 2.0)


Would basically look like this PlayStation Vita Augmented reality demo, but in real life and not looking through a small screen.
It would not be used for demos but games that were made for it by mainstream developers and also Indie developers



1) Question: Do you think that if casuals saw something like this, that they would go out and buy it?

2) Question: As a hardcore game player, would you buy something like this for the right price?




#2 TheLegendOfMart

TheLegendOfMart

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 01-October 01
  • Location: England

Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:25

No and no.

The IllumiRoom is just a research project, not a retail project. It would make the cost of the console probably double what the competition costs.

There will be no gimmicks or special addons, both consoles will have very similar specs and similar prices, only differentiating on software.

#3 Nick H.

Nick H.

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 17
  • Joined: 28-June 04
  • Location: Switzerland

Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:35

1) Question: Do you think that if casuals saw something like this, that they would go out and buy it?

2) Question: As a hardcore game player, would you buy something like this for the right price?

1)Maybe. The IllumiRoom could be good for films as well as games, as could the kinect and 3D glasses.
2)No. I don't like 3D, and I don't enjoy flapping my arms around the place in order to get my game to work, so both of those tools would be wasted on me.

Don't forget the cost of including all of that, though. That could greatly affect a casual user's decision to buy the console or not.

#4 OP Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:54


1)Maybe. The IllumiRoom could be good for films as well as games, as could the kinect and 3D glasses.
2)No. I don't like 3D, and I don't enjoy flapping my arms around the place in order to get my game to work, so both of those tools would be wasted on me.

Don't forget the cost of including all of that, though. That could greatly affect a casual user's decision to buy the console or not.


I am not saying that it would be bundled with the next Xbox or that it would be included.

I am saying that maybe the next Xbox would have Kinect 2.0 in the box and then you buy
the projector with the 3-D glasses and a game or two in a separate SKU that comes November 2014.


Also, not talking about flapping arms. I mentioned fingers or you could use objects. You could play on the floor or on a coffee table with friends.

No and no.

The IllumiRoom is just a research project, not a retail project. It would make the cost of the console probably double what the competition costs.

There will be no gimmicks or special addons, both consoles will have very similar specs and similar prices, only differentiating on software.


You really sure about that? Because I am not at all.

I am talking about a separate SKU here. Here is an example of what I am talking about....

CONSOLE SKU has the console, Kinect 2.0, cables, and regular controller
PROJECTOR SKU has the projector, 2 games, and 3-D Glasses (or maybe another Projector SKU without the glasses)

#5 George P

George P

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 04-February 07
  • Location: Greece
  • OS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit
  • Phone: HTC Windows Phone 8X

Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:58

I think that Kinect 2.0 is a sure thing at this point but I wonder if the'll price it more than the current version so they don't have to reduce the price until their supply is low Enoch to take the hit. Keep in mind that the new Xbox will also sell for a initial loss, though I bet not as much as the 360 did. This is why I don't expect them to be in a rush to also take a hit on the Kinect as well.

As far as what else MS can add to it I expect it will be able to do even more out of the box than the 360. For example I'm sure they plan on a reduced power state that's dependent on the task at hand. Watching videos doesn't mean the who cpu or gpu cores need to run or run at max speed.

Another thing I would like to see and could also show up is "multithreading". Being able to jump to the dashboard or one of the apps without having to exit the game you're playing. Other than that it should just be a better all around media box in general. Maybe toss in some of the media center background and scheduled dvr options.

#6 Nick H.

Nick H.

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 17
  • Joined: 28-June 04
  • Location: Switzerland

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:00

I am not saying that it would be bundled with the next Xbox or that it would be included.

I am saying that maybe the next Xbox would have Kinect 2.0 in the box and then you buy
the projector with the 3-D glasses and a game or two in a separate SKU that comes November 2014.

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is then. Are you asking "would people buy an Xbox360 with Kinect 2.0, then go out and buy 3D glasses and IllumiRoom?"? The answer to that would be "sure, if the devices were supported by the console."

Also, not talking about flapping arms. I mentioned fingers or you could use objects. You could play on the floor or on a coffee table with friends.

Again, if the support is there then sure, why not. But again, I wouldn't get it as I have no interest in the technology at the moment.

#7 TheLegendOfMart

TheLegendOfMart

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 01-October 01
  • Location: England

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:08

[size=4]

I am not saying that it would be bundled with the next Xbox or that it would be included.

I am saying that maybe the next Xbox would have Kinect 2.0 in the box and then you buy
the projector with the 3-D glasses and a game or two in a separate SKU that comes November 2014.


Also, not talking about flapping arms. I mentioned fingers or you could use objects. You could play on the floor or on a coffee table with friends.



You really sure about that? Because I am not at all.

I am talking about a separate SKU here. Here is an example of what I am talking about....

CONSOLE SKU has the console, Kinect 2.0, cables, and regular controller
PROJECTOR SKU has the projector, 2 games, and 3-D Glasses (or maybe another Projector SKU without the glasses)

If you enjoy paying £1000/$1000 for a console yes.

The Nextbox and PS4 are rumoured to cost around $400, then you are looking at least $400-500 for a decent 720p Projector, throw in games, glasses, etc.. are you are talking stupid money.

IllumiRoom is just a research project nothing more. If its a seperate SKU then like Kinect all you are going to get are silly niche games for the device, no developers are going to put time and money into something no one is going to buy and no ones going to spend $500 on a projector addon if no developers are going to support it.

For it to be successful and supported it has to be included with the console at day one and in all SKUs, why would you spend $1000 on an xbox if you can get PS4 for $400?

#8 OP Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:15

I'm not sure what the purpose of the question is then. Are you asking "would people buy an Xbox360 with Kinect 2.0, then go out and buy 3D glasses and IllumiRoom?"? The answer to that would be "sure, if the devices were supported by the console."


Again, if the support is there then sure, why not. But again, I wouldn't get it as I have no interest in the technology at the moment.


Yes and here is my point. Kinect 1.0 was sold separately as another SKU and many people who already owned an Xbox 360 picked it up. I am saying the same thing here.

The Xbox Next console gets released as a SKU in November 2013 with the console itself, Kinect 2.0, cables and a regular controller.
The Xbox "visual experience" gets released as a separate SKU in November 2014 with a projector and two games or a projector two games and 3-D glasses.

Combined this would make things interesting... However do you think this would all sell to casuals? Do you think it would sell to the hardcore.

If you enjoy paying £1000/$1000 for a console yes.

The Nextbox and PS4 are rumoured to cost around $400, then you are looking at least $400-500 for a decent 720p Projector, throw in games, glasses, etc.. are you are talking stupid money.

IllumiRoom is just a research project nothing more. If its a seperate SKU then like Kinect all you are going to get are silly niche games for the device, no developers are going to put time and money into something no one is going to buy and no ones going to spend $500 on a projector addon if no developers are going to support it.

For it to be successful and supported it has to be included with the console at day one and in all SKUs, why would you spend $1000 on an xbox if you can get PS4 for $400?


I disagree with this. Kinect was sold separately and had great sales (without including it in the console SKU), if Microsoft shows what it could do then things could really fly.
It's a low resolution projector not 720p. I suppose you really didn't read about it.

#9 Yusuf M.

Yusuf M.

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 25-May 04
  • Location: Toronto, ON
  • OS: Windows 8.1 Pro
  • Phone: OnePlus One 64GB

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:19

TheLegendOfMart has a point. The only way IllumiRoom would be successful is if every console was bundled with a projector and Kinect. It's in Microsoft's best interest to keep the cost of the next Xbox as low as possible. If they make it significantly more expensive than the competition, then people are more likely to spend their money on a different console.

IllumiRoom is simply a proof-of-concept. It's highly unlikely that they'll release it as a retail product by late-2014. The technology used in Kinect was invented in 2005 and it wasn't until 2009 that Microsoft announced a product for it (remember Project Natal).

Also, the price of the product is a huge factor because of its reliance on projectors. And most projectors are expensive and unnecessary for the sole purpose of using IllumiRoom. I don't think it'll sell as well as the next version of Kinect.

#10 OP Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:34

Here is what I don't understand. If Microsoft isn't going to do this, then why did they show it at CES with Samsung (meaning Samsung is probably providing the low resolution projector)
and why are they showing it again in April 2013?

That doesn't make sense.

The 3-D part comes from here (Source: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/microsoft-envisions-where-gaming-is-going-and-its-wild.html)


Immersive 3D Environments

Microsoft states that while the example primary display and environmental display shown in FIG. 1 includes 2-D display devices, "it will be appreciated that suitable 3-D displays may be used without departing from the scope of the invention." Furthermore, Microsoft states that in some embodiments, "the user may enjoy an immersive 3-D experience using suitable headgear, such as active shutterglasses configured to operate in synchronization with suitable alternate-frame image sequencing at primary display and environmental display."

The patent filing goes on to state that in some embodiments, immersive 3-D experiences may be provided with suitable complementary color glasses used to view suitable stereographic images displayed by the primary and environmental displays.


In some embodiments, the user may enjoy an immersive 3-D display experience without using headgear. For example, the primary TV display may be equipped with suitable parallax barriers or lenticular lenses to provide an autostereoscopic display while the environmental display renders parallax views of the peripheral image in suitably quick succession to accomplish a 3-D display of the peripheral image via "wiggle" stereoscopy.



#11 OP Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:39

TheLegendOfMart has a point. The only way IllumiRoom would be successful is if every console was bundled with a projector and Kinect. It's in Microsoft's best interest to keep the cost of the next Xbox as low as possible. If they make it significantly more expensive than the competition, then people are more likely to spend their money on a different console.

IllumiRoom is simply a proof-of-concept. It's highly unlikely that they'll release it as a retail product by late-2014. The technology used in Kinect was invented in 2005 and it wasn't until 2009 that Microsoft announced a product for it (remember Project Natal).

Also, the price of the product is a huge factor because of its reliance on projectors. And most projectors are expensive and unnecessary for the sole purpose of using IllumiRoom. I don't think it'll sell as well as the next version of Kinect.


I disagree again. Kinect came out late, but there is no evidence that something like a low resolution projector would come out that late. The Kinect SKU made money on it's own. So, it still does not make sense. This is a visual thing with the assist of Kinect so I fail to see how it has to sell with the console.

There have been many changes over at the Xbox group from when the 360 came out and technology has changed over time.

#12 OP Yogurtmaster

Yogurtmaster

    Neowinian

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 18-February 12

Posted 14 January 2013 - 13:09

Here is a low resolution RGB LED mini projector for $90 US dollars BRAND NEW. Yes the Microsoft one does cover more area.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B0024I8H42

Microsoft would be working with Samsung on the projector and technology (maybe even using Pico Projector technology, I don't know).


Microsoft has been working with Kinect and Projectors for a long time, but I bet they are going to be producing something like this for their next Xbox, maybe not at launch but later.

Because they would have put a video up on a website and that was it, instead they are getting people excited early by being involved in the Samsung Keynote and also that conference in April 2003. Yes, I know it uses Windows based Kinect and such. However, I do feel this is a project that is coming for the next Xbox.

It does not make sense that Samsung would be involved at all unless they worked together with Microsoft to make an actual working prototype that they are going to end up selling.

Here is the conference that they are showing it next... http://chi2013.acm.org/ - Christmas 2014 :-)

"Proof of concept" statement was made because they didn't want to announce anything yet, but we know it's a real product that is coming, the question is when and I think it would make sense for it to come on November 2014.

#13 M_Lyons10

M_Lyons10

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 21-October 08
  • Location: Pennsylvania

Posted 14 January 2013 - 13:20

I don't think the IllumiRoom technology is anywhere near ready (Or economical) at this point to be released as a retail product, let alone as a launch add on. POSSIBLY towards the end of the next XBox's life as they did with the original Kinect, but even then they would have to have a lot of confidence that they would move a lot of units, which I really don't see happening (At least not on the scale that would be necessary for games to be made to take advantage of this technology...).

Maybe next generation, MAYBE. But I don't see it happening this generation.

#14 TheLegendOfMart

TheLegendOfMart

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 01-October 01
  • Location: England

Posted 14 January 2013 - 13:22

I disagree with this. Kinect was sold separately and had great sales (without including it in the console SKU), if Microsoft shows what it could do then things could really fly.
It's a low resolution projector not 720p. I suppose you really didn't read about it.

Seems you didn't read it either because it says nothing about being 'low resolution'.

Kinect has sold 18m units out of over 70m xbox 360s sold, thats hardly 'great' sales. Most Kinect games are either party/kids games or "better with Kinect" games that have silly things like voice commands integrated into the game.

Here is a low resolution RGB LED mini projector for $90 US dollars BRAND NEW. Yes the Microsoft one does cover more area.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B0024I8H42

Microsoft would be working with Samsung on the projector and technology (maybe even using Pico Projector technology, I don't know)

There is NO way a small projector like that would be able to produce the clarity of video shown in the IllumiRoom concept, especially during the day you would need a pretty powerful, high resolution projector to get the kind of fidelity shown in the video.

Just look at the reviews of it, Cons: Low resolution, poor contrast, LED lamp requires near total darkness, patches of image are tinted red or green.

A decent 'low resolution' projector you are talking at least £/$250-300.

I'm not trying to pee in your cereal but its too cost prohibitive to include it in this generation, the tech just isn't cheap enough yet.

#15 Crisp

Crisp

    To infinity and beyond

  • Tech Issues Solved: 2
  • Joined: 06-May 10
  • Location: 127.0.0.1

Posted 14 January 2013 - 13:29

Some people just don't understand concepts. :/