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Posted

Cool! The new Steam for Linux is out and what do I see? THEY GIVE A FREE TF2 HAT!?!?! I MUST HAS IT!!

So I downloaded Wubi and started installing...

Nice. It completed. Let's have it reboot and expect it to finish the install...

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It doesn't boot because it says that Windows is hibernated. Windows 8 hibernates the kernel to speed up startups yet Wubi didn't tell me anything about that. Let's turn the hybrid boot off and expect it to work...

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It still doesn't boot with the same reason. Let's go back to windows and turn hibernation off with powercfg -h off.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

Again, it doesn't work. Same reason. Let's reboot windows and delete the whole hibernation file and reboot again.

[b][color=#00ff00]RIGHT![/color][/b]

So the install starts. It starts copying stuff around for a while. Let's wait until it continues... it will certainly end.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It hangs at about 75%. After a while the log starts showing warnings that the copy process has freezed. After about 20 minutes I issue a "sudo reboot" command from console, of course it doesn't work and I have to do an hardware reboot. I try a couple more times then give up and download the whole Ubuntu ISO. Then, let's install the latest 64bit from the ISO like the wiki page suggests for Win 8/UEFI users (no, my machine doesn't have UEFI but since Wubi doesn't work the only alternative is the whole Ubuntu disc hoping it doesn't screw up my bootloader)...

[b][color=#00ff00]FINALLY![/color][/b]

It finally installed, so let's open Steam website and download the Steam client. Let's run that nice .deb package and expect it to work.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

The package available on the website is 32bit only. Apparently I need to use the Ubuntu software center for that. Let's open it, let's register (what's this damn obsession of having to register for free software?) and install Steam 64bit hoping it works.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

The Ubuntu software center crashes with no reasons at all. Let's open it again, maybe it was just bad luck!

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It crashes again. Let's try using the command line to install it then. It will certainly work.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]
[b][color=#ff0000]WROOOOOOOOOOOONG![/color][/b]
[b][color=#ff0000]WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color][/b]

[CODE]
Package dependencies cannot be resolved
This error could be caused by required additional software packages
which are missing or not installable. Furthermore there could
be a conflict between software packages which are not allowed to be
installed at the same time.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
steam64: Depends: steam (= 1.0.0.27ubuntu1) but it is a virtual package
[/CODE]

Apparently [url="http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/864959809808921128/"]Valve didn't even make sure Steam for Linux worked with the latest 64bit version of Ubuntu[/url].

Now I'm going to curl up in a corner and cry, my TF2 hat collection will never be the same without that hat. Thanks, Gabe and Mark :cry:
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Posted

So what you're saying is... it's "this giant sadness" ;)
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Posted

ahah funniest read ever

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Posted

Firstly... install it properly, on a real partition.

Secondly... it sounds as if pretty much all of those problems are to do with Windows 8 and not Linux itself. Microsoft never design their OSes to boot well with a Linux dualboot. Steam on Linux does work properly on Ubuntu 64 bit, you need to purge and uninstall the 32 bit client and install the 64 bit client from the software centre.

Thirdly... Don't expect Dot Matrix to give you any objective advice regarding Linux.
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Posted

Can't comment on Steam and Linux, had zero interest in trying it, but Canonical hid the Wubi installer for a reason as it's been depreciated. It either works fairly well (but is stupidly easy to break), has known problems with Windows 8's hybrid boot, but more often than not it'll make you want to bash your forehead into a brick wall repeatedly when something goes wrong. Personally you're much better off just creating a partition for it and doing a "proper" dual boot... faster and a [i]lot[/i] more reliable. Sucks about the x64 not being tested very well though, they should look at their own stats page.. 32 bit installs are going the way of the dodo. Looks like an easy fix though.

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Posted

So, from what I got from that.. half the issue was because you had 8.. so if you had 7 it wouldn't have mattered.. then you had issues with ubuntu 64bit and steam. So.. instead of looking up how to fix it (which is to simply download the 32bit libraries) you called it quits.

Also, Steam for Linux works on other distros than just Ubuntu, could have used arch, mint, fedora, etc but you didn't. While I agree it seems like it was a pain to go through, it could have been easily avoided by just googling information on how to do it all.

First link searching for: "how to install steam for linux on ubuntu 64bit"

[url="http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/864959809718405749/"]http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/864959809718405749/

J[/url]ust sayin'
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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1361112084' post='595526524']
Secondly... it sounds as if pretty much all of those problems are to do with Windows 8 and not Linux itself. Microsoft never design their OSes to boot well with a Linux dualboot. [/quote]

Funny, I've had no issues with Windows 8 and dual booting Linux.

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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1361113331' post='595526568']
Funny, I've had no issues with Windows 8 and dual booting Linux.
[/quote]

Natively it is very difficult to get Windows anything and linux to co-exist. Most times you have to run some extra grub scans or use easybcd or manually edit the windows boot config.

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Posted

Lol I once tried Ubuntu, managed to break the OS in an hour, tried installing a theme that required things to be typed into the Terminal... :/

[attachment=328216:538294_10150876655099070_1576021613_n.jpg]

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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1361113331' post='595526568']
Funny, I've had no issues with Windows 8 and dual booting Linux.
[/quote]

If you install Linux first you'll be screwed. Windows will just hose the Linux bootloader and install it's own. If you install Windows first it's usually OK, as Linux actually seems to recognise that interoperability is important.
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Posted

I think it says about 400 times on the Ubuntu page that the Windows installer doesn't work on Windows 8.

Wubi has always been garbage. I don't understand why anyone they released it in the first place, or why anyone with a reasonable idea of how computers work would think they could install one OS inside another one (that's not a virtual machine).
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Posted

[quote name='McKay' timestamp='1361113828' post='595526602']
Lol I once tried Ubuntu, managed to break the OS in an hour, tried installing a theme that required things to be typed into the Terminal... :/

[attachment=328216:538294_10150876655099070_1576021613_n.jpg]
[/quote]

How long ago was this?

When I install themes it's as easy as: extract .tar.gz folder, copy it to th ~./themes directory, open the de's settings tool and select it. I do it via CL but could be done with a tool.

[CODE]
tar -xgvf ./MyTheme.tar.gz
mv ./MyTheme/ ~./Themes/
[/CODE]

Right click on the panel in the bottom hit settings, hit the Themes button, and it shows up
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Posted

[quote name='francescob' timestamp='1361111412' post='595526502']
Cool! The new Steam for Linux is out and what do I see? THEY GIVE A FREE TF2 HAT!?!?! I MUST HAS IT!!

So I downloaded Wubi and started installing...

Nice. It completed. Let's have it reboot and expect it to finish the install...

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It doesn't boot because it says that Windows is hibernated. Windows 8 hibernates the kernel to speed up startups yet Wubi didn't tell me anything about that. Let's turn the hybrid boot off and expect it to work...

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It still doesn't boot with the same reason. Let's go back to windows and turn hibernation off with powercfg -h off.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

Again, it doesn't work. Same reason. Let's reboot windows and delete the whole hibernation file and reboot again.

[b][color=#00ff00]RIGHT![/color][/b]

So the install starts. It starts copying stuff around for a while. Let's wait until it continues... it will certainly end.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It hangs at about 75%. After a while the log starts showing warnings that the copy process has freezed. After about 20 minutes I issue a "sudo reboot" command from console, of course it doesn't work and I have to do an hardware reboot. I try a couple more times then give up and download the whole Ubuntu ISO. Then, let's install the latest 64bit from the ISO like the wiki page suggests for Win 8/UEFI users (no, my machine doesn't have UEFI but since Wubi doesn't work the only alternative is the whole Ubuntu disc hoping it doesn't screw up my bootloader)...

[b][color=#00ff00]FINALLY![/color][/b]

It finally installed, so let's open Steam website and download the Steam client. Let's run that nice .deb package and expect it to work.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

The package available on the website is 32bit only. Apparently I need to use the Ubuntu software center for that. Let's open it, let's register (what's this damn obsession of having to register for free software?) and install Steam 64bit hoping it works.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

The Ubuntu software center crashes with no reasons at all. Let's open it again, maybe it was just bad luck!

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]

It crashes again. Let's try using the command line to install it then. It will certainly work.

[b][color=#ff0000]WRONG![/color][/b]
[b][color=#ff0000]WROOOOOOOOOOOONG![/color][/b]
[b][color=#ff0000]WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color][/b]

[CODE]
Package dependencies cannot be resolved
This error could be caused by required additional software packages
which are missing or not installable. Furthermore there could
be a conflict between software packages which are not allowed to be
installed at the same time.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
steam64: Depends: steam (= 1.0.0.27ubuntu1) but it is a virtual package
[/CODE]

Apparently [url="http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/864959809808921128/"]Valve didn't even make sure Steam for Linux worked with the latest 64bit version of Ubuntu[/url].

Now I'm going to curl up in a corner and cry, my TF2 hat collection will never be the same without that hat. Thanks, Gabe and Mark :cry:
[/quote]

1/2/3. This is not really ubuntu's fault. How is it supposed to automagically know/fix weird stuff another operating stuff is doing? Also I would always recommend against using wubi.

4. Yeah, valve did indeed totally screw up the official steam for linux release. they did not test it AT ALL with new ubuntu 12.04.2 so the dependencies are all ****ed up. I really hope they fix that soon, gives a really bad impression (on 12.04.2 even if you don't have thge 32 bit library problem and it installs sucessfully the steam installer downgrades all of the 12.04.2 quantal backported xorg packages to the old 12.04.1 ones, which is both not optimal for gaming and can cause problems because its downgrading a bunch of system packages)
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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1361112084' post='595526524']
Firstly... install it properly, on a real partition.

Secondly... it sounds as if pretty much all of those problems are to do with Windows 8 and not Linux itself.
[/quote]

Nobody put that in doubt that Windows 8 was the factor, but they should have at least tested Wubi with Windows 8 and figured out basic issues like this since the hybrid boot is enabled by default on every Windows 8 install (though the issue in the end was also with the hibernation file itself, maybe the hibernation detection was bugged?). Windows 8 has been out for more than 3 months, why didn't they fix the issues or at least put the appropriate warnings?

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1361112084' post='595526524']
Microsoft never design their OSes to boot well with a Linux dualboot. Steam on Linux does work properly on Ubuntu 64 bit, you need to purge and uninstall the 32 bit client and install the 64 bit client from the software centre.
[/quote]

That's exactly what I did. I went in the software center, I found Steam for 64bit and tried to install it. And that was the result (see the Steam link where they acknowledged the issue). You install Ubuntu, you install that nice Steam 64bit put in plain sight in the store and it fails despite Steam for Linux having been tested for a while and having been launched officially just a few days ago. WTF?

[quote name='firey' timestamp='1361112377' post='595526532']
So, from what I got from that.. half the issue was because you had 8.. so if you had 7 it wouldn't have mattered..
[/quote]

So Canonical shouldn't be expected to test their windows installer on a version of Windows that has been out for months? Even a simple warning would have been enough but the download page only warns UEFI users and people who buy a Windows 8 LOGO system (UEFI) but my issue had nothing to do with UEFI (that I don't use nor my motherboard supports).

[quote name='firey' timestamp='1361112377' post='595526532']
then you had issues with ubuntu 64bit and steam. So.. instead of looking up how to fix it (which is to simply download the 32bit libraries) you called it quits.
[/quote]

That's a Valve problem, that they indeed acknowledged, and I'm waiting them to fix it rather than using workarounds to get it working. After wasting a lot of time (Wubi downloading the files and installing several times, downloading the standalone ISO and updating the whole distro aren't quick tasks, they took hours) to get software that should have worked but hasn't I'm pretty sure anybody else would have quit trying and wait for some official fix.

[quote name='firey' timestamp='1361112377' post='595526532']
Also, Steam for Linux works on other distros than just Ubuntu, could have used arch, mint, fedora, etc but you didn't.
[/quote]

Why should I have done that? Valve advertises Ubuntu for Steam so that's what I used.

[quote name='firey' timestamp='1361112377' post='595526532']
While I agree it seems like it was a pain to go through, it could have been easily avoided by just googling information on how to do it all.

First link searching for: "how to install steam for linux on ubuntu 64bit"

[url="http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/864959809718405749/"]http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/864959809718405749/

J[/url]ust sayin'
[/quote]

Installing all the 32bit libraries from terminal is just a workaround (the workarounds are also written in the Steam page I linked). At this point I'd rather wait for an official fix since it's a pretty huge issue but still... I was just expecting to install Ubuntu and Steam on it and that it should have simply worked like it was supposed to. Screw me, right?

[quote name='threetonesun' timestamp='1361114128' post='595526616']
I think it says about 400 times on the Ubuntu page that the Windows installer doesn't work on Windows 8.
[/quote]
The warning is for Windows 8 logo systems (because they are mandatorily UEFI) and other UEFI systems, if you click the warning indeed it leads you to the UEFI Ubuntu wiki page. The warning also said to use x64 Ubuntu instead so it's 100% UEFI related (x64 is required for UEFI). My motherboard uses a plain old BIOS (not even an UEFI-wrapped BIOS, a real BIOS BIOS) so if it really doesn't work with Windows 8 they should change the text in the download page because it's unrelated to the real issue: if they only write UEFI or Windows 8 Logo systems (computers sold with Win8 preinstalled so still UEFI) if you don't have neither of the two you expect it to work. Anyway in the end Wubi was actually working, it was the Ubuntu installer that kept getting stuck, I managed to get it to shutdown the third time and it looked like it had some issues initializing the ext4 partition.

Funny fact: the Wubi wikipedia page shows Wubi installing on Windows 8. This is clearly a conspiracy!

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Posted

[quote name='ViperAFK' timestamp='1361115115' post='595526678']
1/2/3. This is not really ubuntu's fault. How is it supposed to automagically know/fix weird stuff another operating stuff is doing? Also I would always recommend against using wubi.
[/quote]
Whose fault is it then? It's a Windows installer, not just anyone's but an Ubuntu specific one, shouldn't it be expected to work on Windows?

[quote name='ViperAFK' timestamp='1361115115' post='595526678']
4. Yeah, valve did indeed totally screw up the official steam for linux release. they did not test it AT ALL with new ubuntu 12.04.2 so the dependencies are all ****ed up. I really hope they fix that soon, gives a really bad impression (on 12.04.2 even if you don't have thge 32 bit library problem and it installs sucessfully the steam installer downgrades all of the 12.04.2 quantal backported xorg packages to the old 12.04.1 ones, which is both not optimal for gaming and can cause problems because its downgrading a bunch of system packages)
[/quote]

Good thing I didn't follow the instructions then. I was somewhat expecting all sorts of havoc too, instructions that said to install the whole x86 subsystem on a 64bit platform didn't sound much right.

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Posted

[quote name='francescob' timestamp='1361115607' post='595526712']
Nobody put that in doubt that Windows 8 was the factor, but they should have at least tested Wubi with Windows 8 and figured out basic issues like this since the hybrid boot is enabled by default on every Windows 8 install (though the issue in the end was also with the hibernation file itself, maybe the hibernation detection was bugged?). Windows 8 has been out for more than 3 months, why didn't they fix the issues or at least put the appropriate warnings?

So Canonical shouldn't be expected to test their windows installer on a version of Windows that has been out for months? Even a simple warning would have been enough but the download page only warns UEFI users and people who buy a Windows 8 LOGO system (UEFI) but my issue had nothing to do with UEFI (that I don't use nor my motherboard supports).[/quote]

You do realise that Ubuntu 12.10 was released BEFORE windows 8, right?

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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1361116070' post='595526726']
You do realise that Ubuntu 12.10 was released BEFORE windows 8, right?
[/quote]

You do realize Windows 8 had developer previews, consumer previews, release previews and the RTM was already when Ubuntu was launched? Still this is an unrelated issue: Wubi is a separate download, it could have been updated in the meanwhile. Or they could have simply put the proper warnings rather than telling to install x64 standalone because of UEFI.

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Posted

Ubuntu only release revised installers for LTE releases, they don't do it for .10 releases. The simple fact is, you're blaming them because you didn't do your homework properly. Linux developers actually work pretty hard on interoperability but like everything it takes time. Microsoft however don't work on it at all, in fact one could just reverse your argument and say it's Microsoft's fault for never bothering to make their bootloaders interface nicely with non Microsoft operating systems.

Next time do your research.
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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1361116616' post='595526742']
Ubuntu only release revised installers for LTE releases, they don't do it for .10 releases. The simple fact is, you're blaming them because you didn't do your homework properly. Linux developers actually work pretty hard on interoperability but like everything it takes time. Microsoft however don't work on it at all, in fact one could just reverse your argument and say it's Microsoft's fault for never bothering to make their bootloaders interface nicely with non Microsoft operating systems.

Next time do your research.
[/quote]

Yes, it's certainly the user's fault if Canonical didn't bother either updating the software adding at least a messagebox saying "Your operating system is not supported" (how much would that be, 3 lines of code? 1 minute of recompiling?) or at least add a proper damn warning on the download page rather than a confusing one regarding a completely unrelated UEFI issue.

Their release schedules are not a valid excuse, they could have certainly done something about that but they didn't. It's their fault. Stop with the double standards. And no, nobody said Microsoft is better: google "Games for Windows Live Windows 8", fun for everybody!

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Posted

[quote name='francescob' timestamp='1361115914' post='595526714']
Whose fault is it then? It's a Windows installer, not just anyone's but an Ubuntu specific one, shouldn't it be expected to work on Windows?



Good thing I didn't follow the instructions then. I was somewhat expecting all sorts of havoc too, instructions that said to install the whole x86 subsystem on a 64bit platform didn't sound much right.
[/quote]

Installing the 32 bit libs is actually right, because for some reason valve made steam 32 bit only on linux. Ubuntu does support multilib (running 32 bit programs on 64 bit like you can in windows) out of the box, you just need to grab the appropriate 32 bit libraries first, which the installer/software center usually does automagically, not sure why so many people seem to be getting the 32 bit libs error. Did you make sure to install all ubuntu updates before installing steam?

The package downgrading issue is another problem all together and is a problem with valve's steam installer having totally outdated package dependencies. I wouldn't recommend anyone install steam on ubuntu 12.04.2 until valve sorts that out. afiak it should work fine on 12.10 though, it installed fine when I used the beta on 12.10. I've only had problems when installing it on 12.04 LTS. I'm not sure what version you are running.

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Posted

[quote name='francescob' timestamp='1361117230' post='595526764']
Yes, it's certainly the user's fault if Canonical didn't bother either updating the software adding at least a messagebox saying "Your operating system is not supported" (how much would that be, 3 lines of code? 1 minute of recompiling?) or at least add a proper damn warning on the download page rather than a confusing one regarding a completely unrelated UEFI issue.

Their release schedules are not a valid excuse, they could have certainly done something about that but they didn't. It's their fault. Stop with the double standards. And no, nobody said Microsoft is better: google "Games for Windows Live Windows 8", fun for everybody!
[/quote]Unfortunately that's how distros work. There was a problem with Fedora 15 or 16 I think where the release .iso version couldn't be put onto a USB stick and was discovered a day or so after release. Even though it was a simple fix (rebuild with a newer version of something), they didn't update the .iso. Instead you had to follow directions to build your own .iso with the updated package, and then it would work.
It might have been much more than 3 lines of code to fix it though, so it might have taken more time (and needed through testing), or just hold off on the fixes until 13.04.

Website note though should have been done.

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Thread summary: It's everyone's fault and Steam on Ubuntu 64 doesn't work without workarounds.
Everyone could've done a bit more testing, but I think the blame here rests more on Valve's shoulders for not setting dependencies right.
As for Ubuntu and Windows not getting along, unfortunately there's no real standard on bootloaders, and Microsoft doesn't want to bother with official support when trying to integrate into GRUB. I can't blame them either, as GRUB is, commercially, a very small minority.

Gaming on Linux still has a ways to go. Someday!

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[quote name='cybertimber2008' timestamp='1361117979' post='595526794']
Unfortunately that's how distros work. There was a problem with Fedora 15 or 16 I think where the release .iso version couldn't be put onto a USB stick and was discovered a day or so after release. Even though it was a simple fix (rebuild with a newer version of something), they didn't update the .iso. Instead you had to follow directions to build your own .iso with the updated package, and then it would work.
It might have been much more than 3 lines of code to fix it though, so it might have taken more time (and needed through testing), or just hold off on the fixes until 13.04.

Website note though should have been done.
[/quote]

Depends on the distros, some distros would probably release a new iso for that type of issue.

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Posted

Wait why would 32-bit steam not work?

Wait why do Linux users get 64-bit steam?!

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[quote name='_Alexander' timestamp='1361118266' post='595526804']
Wait why would 32-bit steam not work?

Wait why do Linux users get 64-bit steam?!
[/quote]

steam is 32 bit only on linux still. The "steam64" package just installs the 32 bit libs and then installs the 32 bit steam.

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