Windows 8 and peoples' issue with using a 3rd party start menu


Recommended Posts

ok, so as far as I remember people have liked being able to use 3rd party programs to extend what windows can do. programs suck as objectdock/rocketdock or rainmeter

it's all well and good. it's always been a unspoken philosophy with Windows that if it doesn't do something you want there's probably a program out there for you

now my question is, now that Windows 8 is out why is it that so many people are suddenly complaining that they don't want to use a 3rd party app?

I find that the start screen works just fine (though i'll admit i still have Start8 installed). but why are people making such a big deal about installing a 3rd party app to bring back the start menu (especially when many of the options have little to no effect on system performance)?

It gets very tiring hearing people complain "AH THE START SCREEN SUCKS BLAH BLAH BLAH" but when you suggest install a 3rd party app that brings back the start menu they complain that they shouldn't have to or they just don't want to bother with messing with it.

it gets just as tiring people trying to convince that the start screen is perfect and you should get used to it but that's honestly still not as bad as those who continuously complain about the start screen but are unwilling to compromise in any way

I know these topics are getting old but really, those who continue to complain and have no willingness to compromise ... i just can't understand it

  • Like 1

Simple, people are not happy unless they are bitching and moaning about something. I just ignore them, you can't please everyone and even if you genuinely try to help some of them out, they still find a way to shoot you back down. This is obviously a gross over generalization but is how I generally feel about it. So take with a grain of salt.

  • Like 1

I have no issue with this- do what you want, it's your computer. Can't say I understand it though. The Start Screen works better than the Start Menu ever did (for me).

Many people don't like to have to use extra programs to do what Windows should do out-of-the-box. Since Windows Vista I haven't needed to use third-party skinning applications or UI extensions because Windows worked out of the box and I imagine the same is true for most other users. Personally I don't have a problem with the new Start Screen - it has improved functionality and while it's a bit clunky and inelegant it is better than the old Start Menu.

The biggest issue I have with Windows 8 is the implementation of the hot-corners and the Charm bar, which really are terrible for mouse & keyboard users; I'm constantly triggering UI elements that I don't want during normal usage. I haven't seen any third-party software that offers a viable alternative to the hot-corners and Charm bar without reverting to the traditional Start Menu, which I don't want. It's possible some software does that but I haven't really been bothered enough to search for it.

I know these topics are getting old but really, those who continue to complain and have no willingness to compromise ... i just can't understand it

These topics are getting old because people like you don't understand why people are complaining about Windows 8. I like Windows 8 and use it as my primary operating system but that doesn't mean there aren't substantial design issues and people shouldn't have to find third-party software when they didn't need to with previous versions. Like with Vista, many people have legitimate concerns about the operating system and disagree with the direction that Microsoft is taking Windows - by speaking out against it people are seeking to make sure Microsoft doesn't make the same mistake again.

People need to stop baiting the other side to respond.

there is no issue. the start menu isn't an issue, but it is something they can use to complain about windows 8. if there was a start menu,they would have found something else instead. you gotta understand a lot of this negativity comes from android and iphone users who were constantly bashing windows phone,and vowed never to use it. now that windows 8 is similar,and they've had already chosen their allegiance, they gotta bash windows 8.

Many people don't like to have to use extra programs to do what Windows should do out-of-the-box.

what a bunch of crock. people cite this as the reason they use android,because if they don't like the keyboard or whatever,you can use 3rd party ones.or if they want to change anything,they can. this is just a poor excuse.

there is no issue. the start menu isn't an issue, but it is something they can use to complain about windows 8. if there was a start menu,they would have found something else instead. you gotta understand a lot of this negativity comes from android and iphone users who were constantly bashing windows phone,and vowed never to use it. now that windows 8 is similar,and they've had already chosen their allegiance, they gotta bash windows 8.

I think you are reaching here. I do use Android but I also use Windows 7 and love it. I just don't care for the new start screen in Win 8. It doesn't fit my style.

I genuinely enjoy using third party start menus because you get more features with some of them than you would get if Microsoft offered one. It's fun trying them all.

I don't mind Start8, I think it's better than the Win7 menu and integrates with Modern apps well. Typically, I don't like using 3rd party apps for basic functionality. They also add a layer of troubleshooting when something doesn't work. Many of the GUI enhancers could have compatibility issues in the past. I never really liked many themes more than those in Windows anyway.

I think people use/d them because they were left with no choice. Want to change more than the basic desktop icons, third party app. And so it is with Start menu.

I think the main problem is MS took something or things away people found useful and the Modern UI on top of the Desktop Environment is a kludge and can be annoying/irritating. Modern UI search is terrible in the opinion of many, me included. Lack of context menus is horrendous but really doesn't affect the desktop environment at all. I'm not sure why people feel the need to vehemently defend obvious and blatant shortcomings in many areas of Windows 8. The ecosystem and developers were clearly not ready for RTM.

I think MS is pulling an Xbox RRoD. Release it now for marketing, fix it later. Only problem, there's much more competition (tablets) and devs need money too, they may never come if it doesn't proliferate with "consumers." Yet it is the latest version of Windows and will sell lots by default.

Well, uh...geez, I dunno man. I use classic shell, and I have no issues to speak of. I never ever have to see metro-turd, and that makes me especially happy. So, from where I sit, it's all good.

Back in 2001-2004, With XP ,Customization was was rampant on this site we had dozens of artists who would pour hours of work into themes,programs wallpapers icons etc.

Now this place is filled with fanboy baby asshat trolls who criticize people for wanting something different than the usual vanilla install. Too bad, those were some good times.

  • Like 2

Back in 2001-2004, With XP ,Customization was was rampant on this site we had dozens of artists who would pour hours of work into themes,programs wallpapers icons etc.

Now this place is filled with fanboy baby asshat trolls who criticize people for wanting something different than the usual vanilla install. Too bad, those were some good times.

Watercolor FTW!

The biggest issue I have with Windows 8 is the implementation of the hot-corners and the Charm bar, which really are terrible for mouse & keyboard users; I'm constantly triggering UI elements that I don't want during normal usage. I haven't seen any third-party software that offers a viable alternative to the hot-corners and Charm bar without reverting to the traditional Start Menu, which I don't want. It's possible some software does that but I haven't really been bothered enough to search for it.

I used StopMetro or something for a little bit because I don't like how they exist on every monitor in a multiple monitor setup. It had different options so I left everything unchecked except "Disable Hot Corners". I got tired of running it though.

Back in 2001-2004, With XP ,Customization was was rampant on this site we had dozens of artists who would pour hours of work into themes,programs wallpapers icons etc.

Now this place is filled with fanboy baby asshat trolls who criticize people for wanting something different than the usual vanilla install. Too bad, those were some good times.

Go way back, not too long after I threw away my Timex Sinclair, and you have Norton Desktop. That was better than a Mac. Of course, Microsoft learned how to make a proper desktop and now Norton does, other things and AV, lol.

It's very difficult to take something away from someone that works well, if you're not going to replace it with something that works equally well. Better to have given them nothing at all.

  • Like 3

It's very difficult to take something away from someone that works well, if you're not going to replace it with something that works equally well. Better to have given them nothing at all.

QFT

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Yup, that's a doozy right there 😄
    • It's a bundle of tools created by a variety of people, so things can go wrong sometimes. It's a great addition to Windows, and I use a lot of the tools on a daily basis. Also, it's still a 0.**** release so quick updates are to be expected 😉
    • Oh, I did. And it's even worse than I was hoping! Besides a lot of techno-babble jargon (yes I understand 100% of it but it's still all just techno-babble) there's 2 key points that make me super-weary about even considering testing this out. -- By default, after installation, a relay is automatically set up, so you do not need to care about that. * Non-chatmail apps use email servers as a long-term message archive while chatmail clients use email servers for ephemeral instant message relay. * Supporting the full variety of classic email setups would require considerable development and maintenance efforts, and complicate making chatmail-based messaging more resilient, reliable and fast. -- Basically, the end-user device is the 'server' (relay) so there is NO ARCHIVING whatsoever because every message is necessarily ephemeral. Great for techno-paranoia (and for illicit activities preferring no tracks to cover) but terrible for everybody else. It's also ironically contradictory to engineering principles of redundancies besides the transport layers due to the explicit absence of any persistent storage. Instead of 'classic email address' retaining multi-GB messaging archives on its server, now every device must retain 100% of those storage demands. (Email messages were originally meant to be short correspondences, not the multi-MB attachments boondoggle that now exists with unlimited spam engines flooding every potential recipient.) Any device swap or reset (or loss) makes the entire message history go bye-bye forever... lest there's an off-device auto-archival "relay" mechanism that's really a separate server that holds onto all transported messages (an email server) that utilizes 'chatmail email address' identities (like an email server) and its own persistent storage archive (like an email server). But... this solution is hoping to exist alongside real-world email address identities (based on the email server relay pathway) but simply render messages in chat thread format in an ephemeral manner (with contents being encrypted, and messages auto-expiring) ... In the end, it's a chat app/experience for the Web3/P2P-at-all-costs zealots. (I have accts on all sorts of federated web3 services so I understand the technical and non-technical alike.) For any practical users, however, it's just another service to download/install, register, cross-share id cards/qr codes, but know that there's no history/archive whatsoever (by design) so no account/message recovery whatsoever... update the device, install a bummed update patch, or dare upgrade your device... all history, poof, gone. Ya gotta start everything over again like they're a brand new person.
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG by Paul Hill Over the last decade, it has become quite trendy to dump Google Search in favor of privacy-preserving alternatives such as DuckDuckGo, Startpage, and Brave Search. These search engines have done a very good job at highlighting dodgy practices by Google, such as adjusting search results based on what it thinks you’ll like (filter bubble) and stalking you around the web to advertise to you. While these search engines are good starting points when compared to non-private services like Google, there are still quite a few issues with them. For example, both DuckDuckGo and Brave Search require running non-free JavaScript in your web browser, which is comparable to running proprietary software on your computer, meaning you can be sure about what it’s actually doing in the background. Another issue is that these search engines are hosted on the respective companies’ servers, and you are using a service that you don’t control. Finally, DuckDuckGo, while offering privacy features, relies heavily on Microsoft’s infrastructure for its results and, in the past, has permitted Microsoft tracking scripts. If you are looking for a more private search solution than DuckDuckGo, Brave Search, and Startpage, then I recommend taking a look at SearXNG. It is a privacy-respecting metasearch engine that can be used via different public instances, which is useful for mobile users, or you can install it on your computer or server and run it locally with maximum control. Unlike Google, Bing, or Brave Search, which crawl the web and have their own search indexes, SearXNG is a metasearch engine, meaning it taps other search engines, stripping your identifying data, such as IP address, user agent, and cookies, in the process. Your search query is sent to the other search engines you enable before aggregating the results. SearXNG has deployment flexibility. If you are a casual user or a mobile user and don’t want to run SearXNG locally, you can use a public instance that is hosted by someone else. The main problem with this is that you are putting trust in the maintainer of the instance regarding stuff like logs that they may keep; good hosts should have a privacy policy explaining their policies. If you are trying to use SearXNG, you can also install the software on your device and then head to 127.0.0.1:8080 in your browser and search from there. While you don’t have to worry about a third-party admin like the public instances, search engines could ultimately block your IP address if they frown on you pulling in their search results locally. If you want to run it locally, it’s a good idea to use proxies or VPNs to hide your actual IP. You don’t have to worry about this with a public instance, as search engines never see your IP address. The main privacy benefit of using SearXNG is that it isolates your identity from the underlying engines that it’s capable of searching, such as Google and Bing. These search engines will only see requests coming from a generic server, so they can’t profile you and create a bubble filter that influences what results you see. This also ensures that your search engine doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that prevents you from reading alternative points of view. As a free software project, you are allowed to inspect SearXNG to make sure there are no negative features bundled inside. This sets it apart from the privacy search engines mentioned earlier because you can’t check their source code. As a meta search engine, you are not restricted to getting results from one source. Due to the fact that it scrapes content from other websites, your SearXNG instance will periodically get blocked from different providers, so it’s good to select a range of sources as a backup. While enabling all of the services will give you great results, this can make searching slower. I am personally happy with slower searches for the best results, but you can always check which providers are slowing down your search from the search results page and disable them to speed things up. If you want decent results quickly, enable the main search providers such as Google, Brave, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Bing, and Yahoo. This way, you get wide coverage without the latency. On the Engines tab in Preferences, do note that there are different tabs, such as General, Images, and Videos, with their own providers that can be toggled and are not covered by "Enable all" while on the General tab, so be sure to dig into each. Just a note, if you want to enable everything, press "Enable all" in one tab, then hit save at the bottom of the page, then do the next tab, and so on. If you press "Enable all", then do that in each tab, and then save, nothing will stick. When I had just some of the search engines enabled, I searched “define nefarious” and results came back with the definition of “define” - obviously that was a sucky result. However, when I had everything enabled, it found dictionary pages for the word “nefarious” and even had an inline definition on the sidebar, which is quite nice too - that was delivered by WolframAlpha for anyone wondering! Probably the worst thing about this meta search engine is that the engines you select are saved with a cookie, so you must enable them on every new device you use SearXNG on, including if you decide to go into incognito mode with your web browser. Honestly, I would say this is the most annoying aspect, and perhaps if your browser lets you choose a separate private browsing search engine, then it would be best to use DuckDuckGo for this portion of your browsing. Another weakness of SearXNG is the random blocking of it by search providers. When you are on the results page, expand the “Response time” box, and it will show things like “Suspended: too many requests” or “access denied”. This is why it is good to enable several providers so that there is always a fallback to get results from. I won’t pretend SearXNG will be for everyone, however, if you enable all of the providers and put up with the slower response time, the results can be really amazing. Even if you don’t want to use it as your daily driver, keeping a bookmark handy that links to it is a good idea if you ever feel like doing a deep dive into a niche topic where other search engines are just failing to bring up any good result, due to the amount of sources it looks on. If you’re interested in radical user control over the software you use, installing SearXNG locally can also be a good idea, but be prepared to be temporarily blocked from sites if you trigger bot sensors without a VPN. Personally, I’ve opted to use a public instance, rather than install it myself. If you want to use it via a public instance, head over to searx.space to find a provider. Let us know in the comments if you have used SearXNG or its predecessor, Searx. What do you think about the quality of the results?
    • Dear Neowin, If it is not too much trouble, can you start using the new-ish designations for Insider Preview? "Experimental" is different than "former Dev" as it can apply to different models, eg 26H1 or 26H2 etc, right? No need to seed confusion IMHO. And, please "finally" update your graphics. OK?
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      503
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      226
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      158
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!