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SimCity (2013)

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#1021 PGHammer

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 14:51

Huh? I'm running Simcity 4 in 1920x1080 without any mods. Take a look at this: http://www.widescree.../wiki/SimCity_4

Technically, it's a hack - not native, and that is indeed the problem.  What is worse is that Sim City 3000 DOES support 1920x1080 - and without requiring that hack.  (I own both games, and both are playable in Windows 8.1 today.)

I have nothing against the older versions of Sim City - if I did, I wouldn't still play them.  However, I'm not so emotionally tied to the older versions that I am unwilling to take on a different (and actually tougher) challenge as far as simulated-city management, as opposed to sticking to the same old thing.

 

That's right, would-be Mayors; despite my peeves about the unrealistically cheap cost of wind power, Simcity is HARDER from a city-management standpoint despite that.  Taxation is a much larger factor in city management than it has been - and it makes sense in terms of realism - how many cities (globally - not just in the United States) have fallen to the woes of fiscal mismanagement?  (CitiesXL is the closest any previous city simulaiton comes - however, even it doesn't give you as much detail as even Simcity's budget menu, let alone the rest of the data layers.)

 

And that is, I would guess, a major part of the lack of attraction of the new Simcity to the "old hands" - it IS harder, not ot mention being different.  It's not honest escapism any more - it is too close to the real thing for a lot of the old hands to be comfortable with.




#1022 revanmj

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 17:54

EA said they won't address it either.


They also said that offline mode can't be done bacause game won't work without their servers. And yet we recently got an update with offline mode. So EA can change their minds about city size too.

#1023 mram

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 18:27

This game desperately needs to pull a "Windows Vista" and just get the newer, better, liked version out NOW.

 

At this point they are desperately trying to fix the glitch.  Bigger city sizes?  We can't do that, but how about TALLER cities!  Uhh... no.   Offline mode?  Sure, but has constraints... sorry, I'm just not buying it.  It's stupid, myopic, selfish coding to fit a framework that only benefits the developer.  End users won't complain about massive cities that bog down their systems.  You know what they'll say?? "Wow, this city is so huge it's bogging down my system!  WOW!"

 

At this rate I expect the next SimCity to have system specs so small it doesn't cause lag on iPads, just "to make the customer experience good".  Screw that.  It's like having a flight simulator on rails -- sometimes you want to crash on purpose.



#1024 Hurmoth

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 17:59

They also said that offline mode can't be done bacause game won't work without their servers. And yet we recently got an update with offline mode. So EA can change their minds about city size too.

Not going to say it is impossible, but I doubt it'll happen this version. Maybe SimCity (2015). Or they may do a DLC for it, but they're going to want $$$ for it if it is even possible.

 

I tend to believe that it might be a major strain on resources. I have a 2.7GHz i7 with 16GB of RAM, but a fairly crappy Radeon HD 6630M video card and zooming in kills my system with ~100K Sims living in my city. I know this statement would be true for my system, "The system performance challenges we encountered would mean that the vast majority of our players wouldn’t be able to load, much less play with bigger cities."



#1025 Andrew G.

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 19:55

Not going to say it is impossible, but I doubt it'll happen this version. Maybe SimCity (2015). Or they may do a DLC for it, but they're going to want $$$ for it if it is even possible.
 
I tend to believe that it might be a major strain on resources. I have a 2.7GHz i7 with 16GB of RAM, but a fairly crappy Radeon HD 6630M video card and zooming in kills my system with ~100K Sims living in my city. I know this statement would be true for my system, "The system performance challenges we encountered would mean that the vast majority of our players wouldn’t be able to load, much less play with bigger cities."

 

I've always suspected they would lock larger cities behind DLC, but I think if they announced that now it would just be asking for trouble, even by EA's standards.



#1026 PGHammer

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 20:10

This game desperately needs to pull a "Windows Vista" and just get the newer, better, liked version out NOW.

 

At this point they are desperately trying to fix the glitch.  Bigger city sizes?  We can't do that, but how about TALLER cities!  Uhh... no.   Offline mode?  Sure, but has constraints... sorry, I'm just not buying it.  It's stupid, myopic, selfish coding to fit a framework that only benefits the developer.  End users won't complain about massive cities that bog down their systems.  You know what they'll say?? "Wow, this city is so huge it's bogging down my system!  WOW!"

 

At this rate I expect the next SimCity to have system specs so small it doesn't cause lag on iPads, just "to make the customer experience good".  Screw that.  It's like having a flight simulator on rails -- sometimes you want to crash on purpose.

Taller cities?  Obviously you have NOT seen the Cities of Tomorrow ULC.  It adds MegaTowers - of several different sorts, and two general types (standard and Elite).  You can specialize each floor (residential, shopping, office, public safety, parks, power, etc.)  I've used at least three in every Sandbox city I've built since I got the ULC - because it lets me have maximum population in minimum space.  I haven't even BEGUN to push the limits on what can be done with them yet. (Even more telling, at no WORSE than $19.99USD, it's far from pricey.)

 

Offline mode has come with Update 10 - and it ALSO works with any version of Simcity with Update 9 installed (with or without CoT unlocked).  Since both are, in fact, needed updates, what's the real beef other than size issues with individual cities?


Edited by PGHammer, 24 March 2014 - 20:10.


#1027 PGHammer

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 20:23

Not going to say it is impossible, but I doubt it'll happen this version. Maybe SimCity (2015). Or they may do a DLC for it, but they're going to want $$$ for it if it is even possible.

 

I tend to believe that it might be a major strain on resources. I have a 2.7GHz i7 with 16GB of RAM, but a fairly crappy Radeon HD 6630M video card and zooming in kills my system with ~100K Sims living in my city. I know this statement would be true for my system, "The system performance challenges we encountered would mean that the vast majority of our players wouldn’t be able to load, much less play with bigger cities."

It's the GPU.  I have far less (apparently) CPU by today's standards - Ye Olde 2.4 GHz Q6600 - bone-stock Kentsfield - along with just 4 GB of DDR2 (maxed out the motherboard in the process, as it has no more DIMM slots), but have an nVidia GTX550Ti (refurbished), which itself replaced an AMD HD5450 single-slot passively-cooled CPU (the direct ancestor of your HD630M - the HD5450 is a Mobility part in desktop clothes).

 

My next planned upgrades WILL likely result in my firewalling the game graphics-wise:

 

Motherboard: MSI Z87-G41 PC Mate

CPU: Intel i5-4670K

RAM: 8 GB DDR3-1333

GPU: nVidia GTX750 Ti 2 GB

 

The hold-up with my current hardware is the GPU, and I COULD upgrade it first; however, I've had the upgrade of the rest of the hardware in abeyance since the economy turned south.



#1028 Hurmoth

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 20:27

I've always suspected they would lock larger cities behind DLC, but I think if they announced that now it would just be asking for trouble, even by EA's standards.

I agree, that's why I don't think it'll happen until a new version arrives, whenever that happens. They've backtracked and screwed up so many times with this release, I don't think, even if it were possible, that they'd release larger cities at this point.



#1029 mram

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 19:17

Taller cities?  Obviously you have NOT seen the Cities of Tomorrow ULC.  It adds MegaTowers - of several different sorts, and two general types (standard and Elite).  You can specialize each ... [snip]

 

Did Cities of Tomorrow increase the basic size of a city in any form except customization upwards?  That's my point.

 

People want cities as large as regions.  People want cities that can keep growing as big as they want.  Megatowers is expanding in the wrong direction.  I don't care about density... density isn't the same thing at all.  People want to re-create the city they actually live in, and there's no way they can do that with the model Sim provides, it's way too small.  Extremely.



#1030 Draconian Guppy

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 19:19

 

My only real complaint about Simcity 2013 (from a mayoral/city management standpoint) is the unrealistically LOW cost of wind power - and I'm not even talking about pollution of any sort, let alone radiation.

 

An even bigger sin (in Sim City 4 - even fully patched), is the non-support of 1920x1080 - let alone anything taller.

yeah cities XL is pretty bad in terms of graphics.

 

Also, some cities/ states get heavily subsidized for using "green" energy, so cheap is justifiable :p to some extent.



#1031 PGHammer

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 04:28

Did Cities of Tomorrow increase the basic size of a city in any form except customization upwards?  That's my point.

 

People want cities as large as regions.  People want cities that can keep growing as big as they want.  Megatowers is expanding in the wrong direction.  I don't care about density... density isn't the same thing at all.  People want to re-create the city they actually live in, and there's no way they can do that with the model Sim provides, it's way too small.  Extremely.

In short, they want Sim City 4 - improved, but without regional play.

 

And do you REALLY think that such cities where they exist in ANY city simulation game (for example - Sim City 3000 included several real-world cities - the favorite was New York City) are realistic?  That has been an issue with ALL city simulation games - while Sim City has been the best of them, even it was incapable of doing a true metropolis  - let alone a megalopolis, such as NYC or Tokyo - justice.   Even Sim City 4 (the last pre-Glass Box Engine version) still can't do it - even with mods and hacks galore.  CitiesXL can't even get to where Sim City 3000 can - let alone Sim City 4.  Is what you are asking for even realistic?

 

MegaTowers are mega-skyscrapers on the scale of the future of skyscraper buildings; One World Trade (AKA Freedom Tower) is merely the first in the United States.  You cannot build such a structure in any other city simulation game - not even as a custom building; it is unique to Simcity.

 

Hence my understanding what the real peeve is with this version of Simcity - it's too realistic.  It's no longer an escapist game for the would-be Mayor - you're facing the sort of issues that a real mayor would (even though your city is actually more of a city-state - on the order of pre-Empire Rome); the buck still stops with you.  However, unlike any previous version of Sim City (yes, I am including SC4), a lot more stops at your desk - and you must deal with it.

 

The hunger is still for "improved old" - not really new anything.



#1032 PGHammer

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 04:43

yeah cities XL is pretty bad in terms of graphics.

 

Also, some cities/ states get heavily subsidized for using "green" energy, so cheap is justifiable :p to some extent.

The subsidy comes from the notional national government - basically, it's a bribe/carrot for doing what the level above you wants.  (This is, in fact, something I pointed to back during the second beta.)

 

However, once the growth kicks in, you run into the practical limits of wind as a power source - you can't stay with wind alone and grow. When I hit the wind wall, I start adding nuclear reactors (fission) - however, I park them in the industrial zone OR in regular MegaTowers.  Why not fusion?  Regardless of where you put them, a fusion reactor STILL requires a hefty power SURPLUS to even light the bottle - and when you're in the position where you're trying to choose, fission is easier to build when you are either barely even or running a power deficit - it makes no sense to build a fusion reactor with an existing power shortfall.

 

Coal?  Oil?  While I'll drill for oil and mine coal, neither is used for power generation - oil is refined into gasoline and other petroproducts and both used locally AND exported; coal is used in metal manufacture (and also is exported itself).

 

To offset notional radiation issues (and to ensure an operating power surplus, which is also sold), I take advantage of both power-generating/pollution-abatement capabilities of certain MegaTower Crowns (Solar Collector Crowns are my favorites).

The more of a certain type of Crown there is in a region, the greater the cumulative effect.



#1033 HawkMan

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:32

See in real cities and in SC, you can light the bottle by getting power from neighbouring cities. no city in the world makes it's own power. 



#1034 PGHammer

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 23:11

See in real cities and in SC, you can light the bottle by getting power from neighbouring cities. no city in the world makes it's own power. 

In short, you import power (thereby forcing you to either increase taxes, resort to a cheat, or run an operating deficit) or you do what Greater Tokyo does if wind is not an option (they went whole-hog on nuclear fission; the result was Fukishima).  However, despite Fukishima, Greater Tokyo actually DOES export power (to the exurbs and neighboring prefectures) - just not as much as pre-Fukishima (which was part of GT's power-exportation infrastructure).

Fukishima itself is a semi-independent suburb built for the sole purpose of power generation (the Japanese equivalent of a "company town") - there are many such all over Japan (in fact, such are commonplace in Asia).  Yes - that is very much likely the inspiration for the Simcity "regional model" - such specialized cities were also common in the United States pre-Great Depression.

 

Thing is, I don't even NEED fusion if I plan my growth correctly - hence my using MegaTowers (of both regular AND Elite sorts).  MegaTowers both bring max population in minimum space, and they also have power-generation/pollution-amelioration capabilities (due to both specialized floors, such as Pollution-Abatement, and Power Generation, Air Scrubbing, and other sorts of Crowns).

 

However, most of the angst comes from European and US-based players, where the "company town" is looked on with derision, if not outright scorn - same applies to specialization in terms of cities.  (Such specialization was common in Europe pre-World War II, and especially in Germany - however, both the Battle of Britain and the massive counterassault against Germany - from the air AND on the ground - led to more generalization of German cities, and on purpose, even in the old Ruhr Industrial Zone.





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