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PS4 has no performance bottlenecks, claims Killzone developer


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#46 vcfan

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:03

By that logic every single product in existence qualifies as "off-the-shelf", you're just grasping at straws.


pcs,phones,tablets,TVs most parts are off the shelf. its not a surprise or anything.its common knowledge. in a phone for example,you often hear how the lcd is from lg, the memory is from Samsung, the cpu is from QUALCOMM, the wifi is from Broadcom,and so on. is this not true?

Not only that but you've completely avoided my point regarding the bespoke mainboards.


what about them? motherboards are nothing but boards that have copper traces that connect parts and chips together. Those are designed by the company making the product, yes.


#47 Athernar

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:13

pcs,phones,tablets,TVs most parts are off the shelf. its not a surprise or anything.its common knowledge. in a phone for example,you often hear how the lcd is from lg, the memory is from Samsung, the cpu is from QUALCOMM, the wifi is from Broadcom,and so on. is this not true?


No, it's not true. Because not only is it not always the case, but you're also vastly oversimplifying it.

what about them? motherboards are nothing but boards that have copper traces that connect parts and chips together. Those are designed by the company making the product, yes.


This confirms it, you don't even remotely know what you're talking about at all.

#48 Arceles

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:24

vcfan just really don't know what he is talking about, he just like to bash anyone who isn't ms.

#49 vcfan

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:30

No, it's not true. Because not only is it not always the case, but you're also vastly oversimplifying it.

the majority of the time it is. this is fact. shows me products that all or most of their parts are custom, and said parts are not available for distribution to any company or entity to order. Its rare to find this kind of thing.

This confirms it, you don't even remotely know what you're talking about at all.

really? motherboards are not PCBs that have traces that connect all the chips together? and you are telling me I don't know what im talking about? please enlighten us then what they really are then.

#50 Athernar

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:39

the majority of the time it is. this is fact. shows me products that all or most of their parts are custom, and said parts are not available for distribution to any company or entity to order. Its rare to find this kind of thing.


Tell you what, why don't you go and buy all the individual components for your phone that you so proudly display in your signature and build a working device with it. It doesn't have to be pretty - it just has to work. If it's really as simple as you like to claim it is, you should be fine right? :rofl:

really? motherboards are not PCBs that have traces that connect all the chips together? and you are telling me I don't know what im talking about? please enlighten us then what they really are then.


Here's another challenge for you, open up your PC and pull everything off your motherboard that isn't a IC or a trace and get back to us on how well it works afterwards, oh and don't forget to wipe any OEM firmware that came with the board. (You can keep any on-chip firmware, but anything provided by the motherboard vendor specifically for that motherboard has to go)

#51 vcfan

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:47

Tell you what, why don't you go and buy all the individual components for your phone that you so proudly display in your signature and build a working device with it. It doesn't have to be pretty - it just has to work. If it's really as simple as you like to claim it is, you should be fine right? :rofl:

typical. argue,argue,argue, then when pressed to bring proof, go off into something completely different. if I had the money to buy these(minimum orders),I could buy every single chip in my phone,and design a PCB,and have it manufactured and the components placed.


Here's another challenge for you, open up your PC and pull everything off your motherboard that isn't a IC or a trace and get back to us on how well it works afterwards, oh and don't forget to wipe any OEM firmware that came with the board.

why would I keep the ICs on there? those ICs are the chips im also referring to. Off the shelf stuff as well. Take a look at them and read the manufacturer. Clock generator, x phase power regulator, audio codec, Ethernet transformer, etc... eeprom. all stuff you and me can order easily. every single one of those chips applies.

#52 Athernar

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 21:56

typical. argue,argue,argue, then when pressed to bring proof, go off into something completely different. if I had the money to buy these(minimum orders),I could buy every single chip in my phone,and design a PCB,and have it manufactured and the components placed.


"design a PCB" Doesn't sound so "off-the-shelf" now eh? Guess that means I'm right. :whistle:

why would I keep the ICs on there? those ICs are the chips im also referring to. Off the shelf stuff as well. Take a look at them and read the manufacturer. Clock generator, x phase power regulator, audio codec, Ethernet transformer, etc... eeprom. all stuff you and me can order easily. every single one of those chips applies.


Yes, which is why I said leave them on there. You really need to work on your reading comprehension. Remove everything that isn't trace or IC including board-specific firmware and see how well your "board with chips and interconnects" works.

#53 vcfan

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 22:10

"design a PCB" Doesn't sound so "off-the-shelf" now eh? Guess that means I'm right. :whistle:



Yes, which is why I said leave them on there. You really need to work on your reading comprehension. Remove everything that isn't trace or IC including board-specific firmware and see how well your "board with chips and interconnects" works.


like I said earlier,i said most components. never said the pcb is premade and ready to use.im mostly talking chips. and I don't understand the last part of what you're saying. the motherboard is a pcb with traces,and the ICs are chips like the cpu,gpu,ram.these traces connect all these chips(cpu,gpu,ICs,ram,etc..) together. ICs are off the shelf stuff,not custom ASICs,my point stands. if you've got anything else to back up what you said earlier,ill listen.

#54 Arceles

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 22:34

like I said earlier,i said most components. never said the pcb is premade and ready to use.im mostly talking chips. and I don't understand the last part of what you're saying. the motherboard is a pcb with traces,and the ICs are chips like the cpu,gpu,ram.these traces connect all these chips(cpu,gpu,ICs,ram,etc..) together. ICs are off the shelf stuff,not custom ASICs,my point stands. if you've got anything else to back up what you said earlier,ill listen.


Surely you know that each of those traces must be designed so noise isn't accumulated or produced, so it interferes with the normal operation of the other components, surely you know also that such traces have normally more than 1 layer (eight is a good number for this), surely you know also that producing only one of such boards cost almost the console itself... it's only when it enters to production model when it cost far little, whoever you are, you don't know nothing, NOTHING about electronics design nor inner workings of the AMD APU chips. I've designed (to far less complexity) boards like that and programmed APUs with OpenCL, come back after you have read some books.

#55 Athernar

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 22:47

like I said earlier,i said most components. never said the pcb is premade and ready to use.im mostly talking chips. and I don't understand the last part of what you're saying. the motherboard is a pcb with traces,and the ICs are chips like the cpu,gpu,ram. ICs are off the shelf stuff,not custom ASICs,my point stands. if you've got anything else to back up what you said earlier,ill listen.


Your point doesn't stand because you've completely forgotten what it was you were trying to say in the first place, you've even moved the goalposts now and invalidated what you originally said by conceding that only "most" rather than "all" of the components are off-the-shelf.

I'm done here, intentionally leading you off tangent has proven that you don't know what you're talking about as you are unable to grasp the importance of the motherboard and overall system design in relation to producing an efficient system.

#56 vcfan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 00:44

Surely you know that each of those traces must be designed so noise isn't accumulated or produced, so it interferes with the normal operation of the other components, surely you know also that such traces have normally more than 1 layer (eight is a good number for this), surely you know also that producing only one of such boards cost almost the console itself... it's only when it enters to production model when it cost far little, whoever you are, you don't know nothing, NOTHING about electronics design nor inner workings of the AMD APU chips. I've designed (to far less complexity) boards like that and programmed APUs with OpenCL, come back after you have read some books.


why do you keep talking about something else everytime you reply to me? its always a different subject. We were never talking about PCB design,but if you want to start throwing what knowledge you currently possess , I will gladly share mine. I am a licensed PE (computer engineering) who works at a large fleet management firm. We've designed ASICs at the transistor level. I am an expert operating a focused ion beam workstation to edit chips at up to 90nm level.

Your point doesn't stand because you've completely forgotten what it was you were trying to say in the first place, you've even moved the goalposts now and invalidated what you originally said by conceding that only "most" rather than "all" of the components are off-the-shelf.

I'm done here, intentionally leading you off tangent has proven that you don't know what you're talking about as you are unable to grasp the importance of the motherboard and overall system design in relation to producing an efficient system.


hmm really, I swear if you scroll up few posts,you will see I wrote exactly "most components",but forgetting that, I was talking about chips but you guys wanted to bring PCBs into this because you knew full well whatever it is you guys were selling was completely bogus.

fact remains,most products today use off the shelf stuff. bring me evidence to the contrary and I will concede that I am wrong. its that simple. any other irrelevant discussion doesn't even deserve a reply. im waiting....

#57 Growled

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 00:49

If Sony has indeed managed to do this they are going to have one awesome gaming machine. The more I hear of it the more I want.

#58 neoadorable

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:31

Fully believe this, the two new consoles are Crysis 3 ultra in 1080 rated, so should not be a problem. And this is first wave, later games will exceed this by miles

#59 compl3x

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:35

Oh my gosh! Thank you so much, compl3x. You're too kind. You can can really help us by reporting a post that broke the rules. For some reason, our all-seeing eye doesn't actually see everything because... it doesn't exist. That's right, we don't have an all-seeing eye so we can't catch all instances of rule breakage. We try though! :) :happy: :D :yes:

As for this thread, I just cleaned it.


If this was a one off, I'd agree. It's too bad several topics (and not just in the gaming area) are in the wrong section or spiral into childish bickering and no mods ever seem to come across them.

Unless of course it is a topic in the joke section without a tag, then it'll get locked. :woot:

#60 Emn1ty

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 17:19

This title makes me not care about the rest of the article. Even if the hardware is good, great even what matters is how developers use it. I want to see games.