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#76 Shadrack

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 21:38

I haven't read the whole thread, just the OP. My advice: Be careful about being immediately dismissive to an idea or to someone else rationale (even if you know they are wrong or w/e). In computer science and engineering fields a lot of personalities tend to lead to immediately rejecting a bosses idea because of obvious (to us) technical limitations. You would do better if you take all it, tell them you will think about it, then write an email expressing that you've thought about it and here are the reasons why you don't think it will work. People are never receptive to someone being dismissive, especially the ones who are in charge.


#77 astropheed

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 22:19

Good design, wow - did you also develop it?

I've been a developer and designer for more than 10 years now (primarily development), I've actually been really lucky with all my clients but I have been in your situation in a way. The best thing for you to do is go over her head and question her ability to handle this task with her employer. She may well be hurting the company and they have no idea and would value your opinion as the authority in this matter; you're the professional and any proper business will see this. In my company if someone gets in the way of a professional doing their job that someone is warned to get out of the way or there will be consequence.

Don't confuse her confidence with her position on the matter. In the end this will reflect your portfolio, so if this person leaves a negative result within your portfolio this may end up costing you opportunities with future clients. It may not be such a bad idea to evaluate your current relationship with this client and possibly even fire them.

#78 +Nik L

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 22:42

You've summed up exactly why it would be a bad choice to hire you in 5 words. Good job.

Basically you've advocated breaking defined web standards and said you'd be happy to produce and release shoddy products that would actually harm your employer/customer because you are only interested in the pay cheque.

You are a joke if you genuinely believe your tripe. I always advise ans steer towards best practises, but if a client wants something and has a reason for it - of course I will create it. You're an absolute idiot if you turn down a paycheck over such simplistic ideals.

#79 Sandor

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:29

You are a joke if you genuinely believe your tripe. I always advise ans steer towards best practises, but if a client wants something and has a reason for it - of course I will create it. You're an absolute idiot if you turn down a paycheck over such simplistic ideals.


On the subject of jokes...You posted this:


Quote
So if the client ask you for scrolling text, blinking text and an animated gif of a mouse you will make it ?
If they pay, then yes!

(interesting steering towards best practices there pal)


Quote
The client is not always right. Far from it.
He who pays the piper calls the tune

The "reason" why you're in the game clearly.

#80 OP ACTIONpack

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:04

Posted Image

She wants to get rid of the black bar. She thinks it's too much. That black bar with text will is the bases of the whole design. It's also something will stay the same on all the pages. The tan color background will be going too. She wants to add the slogan to the logo on everything. Even on the top header when I don't see the important even more so when the odd shape of the logo itself is almost important to design for a website. That one part of the website is what make it stand out without it, just not really good anymore.

Personally, I'm not the point where I'm going to design what she wants and keep it to that. I'm getting pay so be it.

#81 Sandor

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:42

Personally, I'm not the point where I'm going to design what she wants and keep it to that. I'm getting pay so be it.


Bear in mind if you are the "Designer" and the design ends up being viewed negatively, or not pulling in the customers as expected, guess who the blame will go to.

#82 Dashel

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 21:27

She wants to get rid of the black bar. She thinks it's too much. That black bar with text will is the bases of the whole design. It's also something will stay the same on all the pages. The tan color background will be going too. She wants to add the slogan to the logo on everything. Even on the top header when I don't see the important even more so when the odd shape of the logo itself is almost important to design for a website. That one part of the website is what make it stand out without it, just not really good anymore.


I think she's right that there is an issue, but her solution is a bit drastic. While the design is a good, it currently doesn't flow well with their logo which is the main issue, is it not?

Here's my novice armchair quarterbacking/0.02: Instead of removing it entirely, why don't you just slim it's x/y or push it to the right and center on the buttons? Or edit or stylize the logo so it can be better implemented in your design, as its pretty shaky anyway. The image could easily move to allow the text to align on the stars.

#83 OP ACTIONpack

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:03

I think she's right that there is an issue, but her solution is a bit drastic. While the design is a good, it currently doesn't flow well with their logo which is the main issue, is it not?

Here's my novice armchair quarterbacking/0.02: Instead of removing it entirely, why don't you just slim it's x/y or push it to the right and center on the buttons? Or edit or stylize the logo so it can be better implemented in your design, as its pretty shaky anyway. The image could easily move to allow the text to align on the stars.


The slogan and the stars were never to be on top header. It does not work at all with the design. I could get it working with the stars on it but with everything, it's just does not work. Told the owner that having the stars was not important is its an afterthought that you would have to tell people what it means. I think it works better without the stars and slogan. The wolf and roma works just fine and adding more **** to the logo does not help. People simple is never anyones thought process. More is never better.

#84 OP ACTIONpack

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:10

The design of the top header before anything were going to change.

Posted Image

#85 Dashel

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:35

I apologize I got sidetracked before. You said they had originally agreed to the logo change, then she was placed in charge of the project, and the old logo 'had' to be reinserted, ie they changed the parameters of the project late in the development cycle?

#86 Co_Co

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:11

That black bar is hella ugly

#87 OP ACTIONpack

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:11

I apologize I got sidetracked before. You said they had originally agreed to the logo change, then she was placed in charge of the project, and the old logo 'had' to be reinserted, ie they changed the parameters of the project late in the development cycle?


Yea, I example to the owner that the stars would never work in the design. Also it does not show up well, We can use it in the footer but the header, would need to be remove. One of the reason why when you see it with out the stars and slogan it works great now, no more.

#88 nrjperera

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:23

If your job is starting to become a pain in the a**, Quit.
There are ton of places where you can find work online as a web designer and the pay is pretty high.
You can work from home and manage your time as the way you want.

This is what i'm doing right now. I'm not a web designer. but I work online.
Pay is way better than working at an office.

#89 goodbytes

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:15

You are a joke if you genuinely believe your tripe. I always advise ans steer towards best practises, but if a client wants something and has a reason for it - of course I will create it. You're an absolute idiot if you turn down a paycheck over such simplistic ideals.


I'm going to agree with you, if a client asked me to do something stupid i would advise but thats as far as i go... if they decide they still want it then i'm not going to argue with them, its up to them if they choose to listen to a professions advice, but if not, i'll do what they want since they are paying me, or i would at least make a decision on whether i still want to work with this person.

On the other end of this, the issue is much bigger because it's not a case of 'the customer is always right' or 'as long as the client is happy', they are not the people that are going to be using this website... if it's aesthetically unpleasing, hard to use/navigation or down right ugly then they are going to have some problems selling their products or achieving whatever they want to do so you need to be firm and explain but at the end of it all you cant force them to have something they don't want.

As for the website i have some issues with it
- the placement of the logo is ugly, it's touching the borders of the to nav bar therefore not sitting correctly (why not put technologies on the same line as the rest and valign the logo a bit more?)
- bad combination of serif and sans-serif fonts
- the mid slider section makes for some painful reading as the font, it's size and line spacing combine to make it a mess
- "Products are free of APEO, PEG, PG, Asthmatic Triggers & Solvent.*" I can see the effect you were going for but it's doesn't look right, it looks out of place and mis-aligned, giving it it's own space would be an improvement
- the black bar on other pages is horrible, it's covering the logo which is a big no go, either cover it all or don't, or just don't.

great work over all.

#90 Dashel

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 16:30

Yea, I example to the owner that the stars would never work in the design. Also it does not show up well, We can use it in the footer but the header, would need to be remove. One of the reason why when you see it with out the stars and slogan it works great now, no more.


For clarity, what is your contract like? You mentioned you are hourly so I assume there was no formal project contract? As you say, you were on the home stretch of the project and it is they who decided to start a new one by changing the parameters, so I would personally approach it that way, which is a bit different an issue than simply 'an employee that wants to change everything'.