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Posted

so basically you can't just, by a game, finish it, have the disc collecting dust for months, have a friend over who didnt buy the game back when it was release and you want to lend it to him. You can't? You have to pay a fee? what's the deal here.

The game install being tied to your account, and that account being able to enable playing the game on any console (one at a time obviously), was a given.

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Posted

[quote name='BajiRav' timestamp='1369219762' post='595705042']
Are you somehow implying that you are a better than others here because you are a gamer and you have a GF? :laugh: If yes, that's new low for you.
[/quote]

Yeah I sure said that, I'm a regular pimp, why would I not be better than others on here.... :wub:

It's a light hearted poke at a gaming culture that can be very solitary outside of playing games online with your mates. There are many people even simply in friendships who swap games with each other as a more cost effective way of trying games out.

My GF and I are serious (simply meaning we see/spend much time with each other), and we do not see the point of us both buying copies of every game we enjoy. As we have similar genre interests, outside of us both wanting to play something at the same time, or wanting a genuinely amazing game in our collection, we aren't both buying copies of Heavy Rain when I can just give her my copy when I'm done.

She doesn't want to play it on [b]my[/b] account on her PS3, she wants to play it on [b]hers[/b] to get the trophies and satisfaction of using her own account name (especially if it's a multiplayer game - Yes not all MP games have online passes). Even if she didn't have to pay a fee, simply use my account, she doesn't want to do that for the exact same reasons. People get attached to their online alias/ID and account in general, especially with the trophy/achievement culture. Not to mention if I'm using my account at home, and she has to sign into my account at hers, well, that would boot me out wouldn't it? .....

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Posted

Just wondering, what is the process if you get games from something like Gamefly? Genuine question, i've not seen anything regarding that.

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Posted

[quote name='red.' timestamp='1369221016' post='595705088']
Just wondering, what is the process if you get games from something like Gamefly? Genuine question, i've not seen anything regarding that.
[/quote]

Most likely the same as the used game market, whatever this "solution in progress" is for when you cannot log into the original disc owners account (whoever rented from Gamefly first?). Phil Harrison said a fee, MS backtracked, but it's going to be something or the "you need to be logged into the owners account" requirement simply would not exist - Like how it is this generation, a disc is a disc, it works wherever with no cavecats.

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1369221145' post='595705090']


Most likely the same as the used game market, whatever this "solution in progress" is for when you cannot log into the original disc owners account (whoever rented from Gamefly first?). Phil Harrison said a fee, MS backtracked, but it's going to be something or the "you need to be logged into the owners account" requirement simply would not exist - Like how it is this generation, a disc is a disc, it works wherever with no cavecats.
[/quote]

Or they have a way for rentals to work and haven't revealed it. It wouldn't exactly be hard to do.

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Posted

[quote name='spenser.d' timestamp='1369221337' post='595705092']
Or they have a way for rentals to work and haven't revealed it. It wouldn't exactly be hard to do.
[/quote]

How do you differentiate a rental disc without considerable headache? Most of them are simply using "retail" units, hence how Blockbuster sells ex-rentals. They aren't branded or anything.

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1369221425' post='595705096']


How do you differentiate a rental disc without considerable headache? Most of them are simply using "retail" units, hence how Blockbuster sells ex-rentals. They aren't branded or anything.
[/quote]

Just because you don't see the solution doesn't mean there isn't one. Microsoft has solved far more complex problems than this.
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Posted

[quote name='GP007' timestamp='1369207096' post='595704790']
They really want to know if you can lend a game out, I bet you can, and I bet that as long as that game is lent out you can't play it either. I'm going to make a guess and say each disc has some encryption key on it, as with every console so far actually. That key is matched to your account, so if that same key is flagged on another account the first one could be turned off until the second one is uninstalled.

So, until your friend is done and uninstalled the game and gave you the disc back then your installed copy won't play. Just a guess though.
[/quote]
No, discs are mass produced, if one game has an encryption key on the disc then every copy of that disc produced will have the same encryption key, you cannot do what you're talking about without making a brand new master for each disc, and the cost, time, machining and everything to do that makes it impossible.

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Posted

[quote name='spenser.d' timestamp='1369221707' post='595705104']
Just because you don't see the solution doesn't mean there isn't one. Microsoft has solved far more complex problems than this.
[/quote]

You said it wouldn't exactly be hard to do so, so I simply asked you wondering why you thought that! Or I proposed a challenge to you, as rightly or wrongly my brain can't see an easy way to do it with how rental discs work.

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Posted

[quote name='Brian M' timestamp='1369219893' post='595705050']This is nothing to do with being a PS3 fan, etc. This is about Microsoft essentially killing off the second hand game market (or at least, reducing it's value somewhat).

Say I have a copy of 1 game on the shelf, and my friend has another. We can no longer just play each others games without having to be signed into the others account, or paying a fee. How is that a good thing?[/quote]

Unfortunately retailers have exploited second-hand games to the point where they are deliberately undermining first-hand sales, which hurts developers. Companies like GameStop have taken billions of dollars away from the gaming industry and consumers haven't been made aware of what impact that has. Steam doesn't allow the reselling of games and it's been nothing but a positive influence on the industry, significantly reducing the cost of games for those willing to wait and providing a better income to developers.

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1369221425' post='595705096']
How do you differentiate a rental disc without considerable headache? Most of them are simply using "retail" units, hence how Blockbuster sells ex-rentals. They aren't branded or anything.
[/quote]

Everything could be done online in a similar way to Steam, in that the disc is literally only for storing the data and doesn't entitle you to play the game. Rented games could include one-use serial codes that either let you play for a specific amount of time or track your play time and bill you accordingly. The difference is that developers would actually get money from such a system.
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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1369222000' post='595705114']


Unfortunately retailers have exploited second-hand games to the point where they are deliberately undermining first-hand sales, which hurts developers. Companies like GameStop have taken billions of dollars away from the gaming industry and consumers haven't been made aware of what impact that has. Steam doesn't allow the reselling of games and it's been nothing but a positive influence on the industry, significantly reducing the cost of games for those willing to wait and providing a better income to developers.



Everything could be done online in a similar way to Steam, in that the disc is literally only for storing the data and doesn't entitle you to play the game. Rented games could include one-use serial codes that either let you play for a specific amount of time or track your play time and bill you accordingly. The difference is that developers would actually get money from such a system.
[/quote]

This is a good example of someone using their brain and not jumping in with hate and anger, well done sir! :)

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1369222000' post='595705114']
Everything could be done online in a similar way to Steam, in that the disc is literally only for storing the data and doesn't entitle you to play the game. Rented games could include one-use serial codes that either let you play for a specific amount of time or track your play time and bill you accordingly. The difference is that developers would actually get money from such a system.
[/quote]

Take Lovefilm for example, that's thousands of individual codes having to be printed for games, as they're an online based rental company it's a lot of work. These companies also allow you to rent and play for as long as you want, so if MS are going to start rubbing out the rental companies ethos of own for as long as you want, that's yet again another headache.

Doesn't gamefly allow you to buy your rental and keep it at a cost? What happens there? I see DirtyLarry occasionally keeping his rentals permanently by paying $40+ to keep the rental and actually own it.

[quote]Steam doesn't allow the reselling of games and it's been nothing but a positive influence on the industry, significantly reducing the cost of games for those willing to wait and providing a better income to developers.[/quote]

Good luck if you think what MS is about to do is going to offer you steam like prices, steam like DRM (complete offline play with NO restrictions) and steam like sales. Comparing consoles to steam/origin always falls off a cliff somewhere.

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1369221791' post='595705110']


You said it wouldn't exactly be hard to do so, so I simply asked you wondering why you thought that! Or I proposed a challenge to you, as rightly or wrongly my brain can't see an easy way to do it with how rental discs work.
[/quote]

So because you can't figure it out you answer people's questions saying it can't happen? That's awfully kind of you.
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Posted

[quote name='spenser.d' timestamp='1369222245' post='595705126']
So because you can't figure it out you answer people's questions saying it can't happen? That's awfully kind of you.
[/quote]

But you said you thought it was easy, or at least not hard, you've yet to bring anything to our discussion other than "MS can figure it out". WHY do you think it's easy?

[quote]Or they have a way for rentals to work and haven't revealed it. [b]It wouldn't exactly be hard to do.[/b][/quote]

You're asking me to figure it out, yet you're not posting any suggestions of your own when I am at least pointing out what MS would have to navigate through.

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1369222208' post='595705122']Take Lovefilm for example, that's thousands of individual codes having to be printed for games, as they're an online based rental company it's a lot of work. These companies also allow you to rent and play for as long as you want, so if MS are going to start rubbing out the rental companies ethos of own for as long as you want, that's yet again another headache.[/quote]

Or they could just email them to you. And there's no reason that companies like Lovefilm couldn't simply track how long you use games and bill you accordingly.

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1369222208' post='595705122']Good luck if you think what MS is about to do is going to offer you steam like prices, steam like DRM (complete offline play with NO restrictions) and steam like sales. Comparing consoles to steam/origin always falls off a cliff somewhere.[/quote]

Publishers set the price of games, not Microsoft. If they can make more money by lowering prices then they will. But you're right, I don't expect that Microsoft's foray into digital distribution will be as good for gamers as Steam -- its record with XBLA suggests otherwise. However, that doesn't mean it will be all doom-and-gloom.

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1369223250' post='595705144']
Or they could just email them to you. And there's no reason that companies like Lovefilm couldn't simply track how long you use games and bill you accordingly.
[/quote]
Or more likely they just wont stock Xbox One games because its too much hassle.

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1369223250' post='595705144']
Or they could just email them to you. [b]And there's no reason that companies like Lovefilm couldn't simply track how long you use games and bill you accordingly[/b]. Publishers set the price of games, not Microsoft. If they can make more money by lowering prices then they will. But you're right, I don't expect that Microsoft's foray into digital distribution will be as good for gamers as Steam -- its record with XBLA suggests otherwise. However, that doesn't mean it will be all doom-and-gloom.
[/quote]

But they do not do that, that's not part of the rental ethos. You can rent a game from them and as long as you're paying your lovefilm subscription keep it for as long as you want. That would essentially "kill" the rental market, here you go guys pay the

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Posted

This is how it currently is.... A person can buy a game and lend that game to a friend once you are done with it. Heck you can even trade it. With the Xbox One, you can not lend your games to a friend; unless you give those friends access to your Live account. And something to remember is that your pressumably can not be logged into live at the same from the same account.


This essentially kills off sharing game with your friends. This was such a bad move from Xbox.

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Posted

[quote name='Audioboxer' timestamp='1369222480' post='595705130']


But you said you thought it was easy, or at least not hard, you've yet to bring anything to our discussion other than "MS can figure it out". WHY do you think it's easy?



You're asking me to figure it out, yet you're not posting any suggestions of your own when I am at least pointing out what MS would have to navigate through.
[/quote]

Why do you think you can post nonsense without backing it up?

I said it was easy, as in easier than other things the company has tackled and definitely something they've considered during the dev process given the prominence of that industry. I don't have to come up with anything, you just need to stop answering questions you're assuming the answer to without any backing source. This isn't about me. You said it won't happen, and you just plain don't know that.

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Posted

[quote name='spenser.d' timestamp='1369223601' post='595705156']
Why do you think you can post nonsense without backing it up?

I said it was easy, as in easier than other things the company has tackled and definitely something they've considered during the dev process given the prominence of that industry. I don't have to come up with anything, you just need to stop answering questions you're assuming the answer to without any backing source. This isn't about me. [b]You said it won't happen[/b], and you just plain don't know that.
[/quote]

I actually never said it won't happen (go find that quote), just unleashed a load of issues that have to be trawled through. I think most readers on here wouldn't exactly call the completely rational points I've made "nonsense", but okay.
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Posted

[quote name='MindTrickz' timestamp='1369223563' post='595705154']
This is how it currently is.... A person can buy a game and lend that game to a friend once you are done with it. Heck you can even trade it. With the Xbox One, you can not lend your games to a friend; unless you give those friends access to your Live account. And something to remember is that your pressumably can not be logged into live at the same from the same account.


This essentially kills off sharing game with your friends. This was such a bad move from Xbox.
[/quote]

We don't have enough info on the details yet though. What if you can lend out a game but until you get it back you can't play it yourself? We honestly don't know what they'll do, they haven't said specifics yet so everyone is just guessing.

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Posted

Game rentals could be as simple as movie rentals from PSN. Download then activate, dies after a few days. You can then either purchase or delete

Simples

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Posted

[quote name='-T-' timestamp='1369224008' post='595705172']
Game rentals could be as simple as movie rentals from PSN. Download then activate, dies after a few days. You can then either purchase or delete

Simples
[/quote]

Yeah that works if you're renting FROM Sony and MS, but the normal routes of current rental systems, either in retail or online do not have expiration dates for your rentals as long as you're paying your monthly package subscription. That is because they're disc based and the discs are 100% the same as a retail disc, rental companies do not have special discs given to them.

MS would then be cutting out traditional rental methods, or as discussed earlier in here having to find a solution amongst all the issues of somehow differentiating a rental disc from a retail disc WITHOUT loading the finacial burden/hassle onto the rental companies (or they would just say no, we're not offering your games).

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Posted

The rental companies could just get codes to issue to renters, easy.

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Posted

[quote name='-T-' timestamp='1369224008' post='595705172']
Game rentals could be as simple as movie rentals from PSN. Download then activate, dies after a few days. You can then either purchase or delete

Simples
[/quote]
Except you can get "all you can eat" game rental and rent as many games as you want a month and keep them for as long as you want for around

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