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The Crew Ported from PC to PS4 in 6 months with 3 people.

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#16 Original Poster

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 19:39

if a game doesnt run at 60fps I dont want it :p 




#17 MorganX

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 19:43

Wow no way, Microsoft development environment doesn't spit out optimised PS4 code, who'd have thought.

This is great for PC gaming. Games can be developed to the highest common denominator (PC) and easily ported to both consoles. This means more games for PCs and they won't be held back by being developed on the lowest common denominator. Better to scale down than to try and scale up.

 

Good for all gamers.



#18 Athernar

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 20:58

The compiler does more than converting to machine code. In this case, there is API translation just like macros and preprocessor directives prior to translation to machine code by the compiler  

 

Got a source on that?

 

Because since you didn't qualify what exactly "PS4 optimised code" is, I'm not really inclined to take your word on it.



#19 vcfan

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 21:02

Got a source on that?

 

Because since you didn't qualify what exactly "PS4 optimised code" is, I'm not really inclined to take your word on it.

its in the article

 

There are even options within Sony's compiler specifically added in order to increase compatibility with the Microsoft counterpart used in compiling DirectX 11 games.


#20 Athernar

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 21:20

its in the article

 

That doesn't answer or address my question.

 

What is your basis for claiming that a (any) compiler is performing automatic generation of API call translation layers?



#21 vcfan

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 22:16

That doesn't answer or address my question.

 

What is your basis for claiming that a (any) compiler is performing automatic generation of API call translation layers?

 

what is your interpretation of this

 

There are even options within Sony's compiler specifically added in order to increase compatibility with the Microsoft counterpart used in compiling DirectX 11 games.

 

DirectX is a set of APIs. Now why would a sony compiler be modified to increase compatibility in compiling directx games?



#22 Athernar

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 22:31

what is your interpretation of this

 

DirectX is a set of APIs. Now why would a sony compiler be modified to increase compatibility in compiling directx games?

 

Possible interpretations could be a myriad of things, automatic authoring of a API call translation layer however is farfetched at best.

 

Think about it for a second, if Sony could write a compiler to that was capable of doing such a thing, why aren't there FOSS compilers to do the same on Linux (Win32, DirectX, etc)? Why would companies like Valve go to the effort of writing their own layers (togl) for their Mac/Linux ports when they could auto-generate it?

 

I think what is more likely is Sony have got some sort of ReactOS type thing going on with DirectX on the PS4.



#23 vcfan

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 22:46

Possible interpretations could be a myriad of things, automatic authoring of a API call translation layer however is farfetched at best.

 

Think about it for a second, if Sony could write a compiler to that was capable of doing such a thing, why aren't there FOSS compilers to do the same on Linux (Win32, DirectX, etc)? Why would companies like Valve go to the effort of writing their own layers (togl) for their Mac/Linux ports when they could auto-generate it?

 

I think what is more likely is Sony have got some sort of ReactOS type thing going on with DirectX on the PS4.

 

how does wine work for 3d games under Linux? its just a wrapper for d3d calls to opengl. its not like this is something that's never been done before. just because its not in a compiler doesn't mean it couldn't be. what are these other things youre talking about that it could be? you asked on what basis I claimed those things. well,like I said,directx is an api,and if a compiler is modified to be compatible with directx code, what do you think that means? im not saying all directx code is translated though. maybe just areas that need a lot of optimization are done using the sony API.

 

there were 12,000 source code files,according to the developers. do you think 2 or 3 people translated all the api calls and tied everything together,and got the game running in 6 months? they obviously used some "help"



#24 blerk

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 22:47

"The PS4's GPU is very programmable. There's a lot of power in there that we're just not using yet. So what we want to do are some PS4-specific things for our rendering but within reason - it's a cross-platform game so we can't do too much that's PS4-specific," he reveals.

 

They can't be talking about the PC so could the relatively slower X1 be holding back multiplatform graphics?

 

Asynchronous compute is something that the PS4 excels at, they have increased the queue depth from 2 to 64, they have designed it so that it can execute graphics and compute code in parallel rather than having one thread to wait for the other to execute and the PS4 has 18CUs that have this asynchronous compute compared to 12 on the X1 which doesn't have it.

 

I wouldn't think that it's the XB1's fault in such that it has less power; rather I read it as saying that to achieve parity over all platforms they can't really do too much PS4-specific stuff at this moment.

 

The alternate explanation is that they can't target these PS4-specific features because because they're lazy they need to work on 3 platforms at once and the PS4-specific features are at this stage aren't worth it (can be because of lack of familiarity, immature dev tools, whatever).

 

But it's funny looking at this thread and seeing how two people reading the same words can form completely different opinions  :rofl:



#25 Athernar

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:56

how does wine work for 3d games under Linux? its just a wrapper for d3d calls to opengl. its not like this is something that's never been done before. just because its not in a compiler doesn't mean it couldn't be. what are these other things youre talking about that it could be? you asked on what basis I claimed those things. well,like I said,directx is an api,and if a compiler is modified to be compatible with directx code, what do you think that means? im not saying all directx code is translated though. maybe just areas that need a lot of optimization are done using the sony API.

 

there were 12,000 source code files,according to the developers. do you think 2 or 3 people translated all the api calls and tied everything together,and got the game running in 6 months? they obviously used some "help"

 

You're muddling things. There is no such thing as "DirectX code" or even "OpenGL code" as far as a compiler is concerned, it takes the source and creates a binary. That's it.

 

If there are special Sony optimisations in the compiler going on, it's going to be targeted optimisations for the hardware platform - rather than the generally optimised compilers used on the PC.

 

It makes no sense to do porting in the compiler like that. It would be far more sensible to create an implementation of the DirectX API set on the PS4.



#26 McKay

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:19

Exellent, how good is the port though? Think we'll see more easy ports thanks to a common architecture across the platforms now? (Minus Wii U)



#27 Eric

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:20

OOP and interfaces are a wondrous thing... since Quake at least. The low-level functions are libraries that call the platform-specific functions. Barely any PS3 games were programmed down to the metal, either.



#28 +SharpGreen

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:42

Possible interpretations could be a myriad of things, automatic authoring of a API call translation layer however is farfetched at best.

 

Think about it for a second, if Sony could write a compiler to that was capable of doing such a thing, why aren't there FOSS compilers to do the same on Linux (Win32, DirectX, etc)? Why would companies like Valve go to the effort of writing their own layers (togl) for their Mac/Linux ports when they could auto-generate it?

 

I think what is more likely is Sony have got some sort of ReactOS type thing going on with DirectX on the PS4.

It could be something akin to Google's ANGLE project, which is an implementation of OpenGL ES 2.0 atop DX9 and 11. Which in my experience (having used it) works quite well. Not quite the "ReactOS level" stuff you're thinking.



#29 vcfan

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:20

...

I guess we will agree to disagree

 

Exellent, how good is the port though? Think we'll see more easy ports thanks to a common architecture across the platforms now? (Minus Wii U)

 

I think you should read the thread :shifty:



#30 Athernar

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:31

It could be something akin to Google's ANGLE project, which is an implementation of OpenGL ES 2.0 atop DX9 and 11. Which in my experience (having used it) works quite well. Not quite the "ReactOS level" stuff you're thinking.

 

Not reactOS "level", but rather in spirit. If Sony were to invest in a PS4-side implementation of the DirectX API the process of porting could end up being trivial.

 

Then again, Valve have already proven with their "togl" translation layer that even with the (allegedly minor) cost of translation, the performance gains of OpenGL not only eliminate that cost - but manage to beat native DirectX.





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