Jump to content



Photo

Create a guest network w/o a special router?

guest wifi

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 bomba6

bomba6

    Neowinian

  • Joined: 17-October 05

Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:49

Hi.

I was wondering: can I create a "guest wifi" network with my current routers, without the need to buy a new smart router?

As demonstrated in the picture, I have a "main" tp-link 741 router, a second 741 router that is configured as an AP (wds) which is connected wireless to the main router.

I also have an old 3com router which now serves as a switch/hub (its wifi is turend off by me) and connected by wire to the main router.

 

I would like to know if it is possible to use the 3com to create a guest wifi that could only connect the Internet, while the wired clients connected to it need to retain the access to the inner network.

 

f6k6.png

Thanks!

 

 




#2 manroweb

manroweb

    Lover of all things tech

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 07-April 02
  • Location: Swindon UK

Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:45

Not sure you can create it with a the default firmware, but on the TP LINK 741 you can load dd-wrt.

This will allow you to setup multiple SSID's from one Access point, and have them separated.



#3 OP bomba6

bomba6

    Neowinian

  • Joined: 17-October 05

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:18

Yes, I know that, but I was trying to avoid installing a firmware on my router. (Don't want to brick it).



#4 The_Decryptor

The_Decryptor

    STEAL THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

  • Tech Issues Solved: 5
  • Joined: 28-September 02
  • Location: Sol System
  • OS: iSymbian 9.2 SP24.8 Mars Bar

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:28

Unless the router advertises it as a supported function, you'll probably need to flash a 3rd party firmware like OpenWRT on it, my router supported it out of the box, but it was a "power user" router.

#5 TPreston

TPreston

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 2
  • Joined: 18-July 12
  • Location: Ireland
  • OS: Windows 8.1 Enterprise & Server 2012R2/08R2 Datacenter
  • Phone: Nokia Lumia 1520

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:36

huh ? if he is going to use two routers cant he just change the subnet and ip4 gateway to the other router ?

Still I doubt this would give him different vlans and the firewall is probably rubbish only supporting "low medium high"

#6 manroweb

manroweb

    Lover of all things tech

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
  • Joined: 07-April 02
  • Location: Swindon UK

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:49

huh ? if he is going to use two routers cant he just change the subnet and ip4 gateway to the other router ?

Still I doubt this would give him different vlans and the firewall is probably rubbish only supporting "low medium high"

 

I took the diagram to mean he needed both current access points as they were for the existing network.

Maybe that was a wrong assumption to make. Will have to wait for the OP to reply



#7 OP bomba6

bomba6

    Neowinian

  • Joined: 17-October 05

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:18

That's correct, I can't change the topology of the network.

All I can (and hope to) do is enable the WiFi in the 3com and separate the WiFi only from my network. The computers connected by wire need to stay there, with the same subnet as the other computers in the network.



#8 JonnyLH

JonnyLH

    I say things.

  • Joined: 15-February 13
  • Location: UK
  • OS: W8, W7, WP8, iOS, Ubuntu
  • Phone: Nokia Lumia 920

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:29

huh ? if he is going to use two routers cant he just change the subnet and ip4 gateway to the other router ?

Still I doubt this would give him different vlans and the firewall is probably rubbish only supporting "low medium high"

Although they're called routers, home routers are just gateways which simple switching capabilities. They can't actually route between networks. They work on L2.

 

This idea is a very long shot but you can try this:

Subnet the whole network apart from the guest wireless network to the defacto 192.168.0.0/24.

Whatever device is your gateway, make sure that IP sits on the highest IP so: 192.168.0.254.

Subnet the guest network to 192.168.0.224/28.

 

In theory, the guest network can't talk to any machine on the main subnet but since the gateway is still in range, it'll be able to talk to the internet.
Even though technically the guest device is in the main subnet range, when it hits the client on the guest network, those boxes still can't talk to the main range.


Edited by SHoTTa35, 14 August 2013 - 15:14. Reason: Cleaned - Left suggestions however


#9 OP bomba6

bomba6

    Neowinian

  • Joined: 17-October 05

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:43

Jonny, your idea is interesting, but as I mentioned, I need the PC and the Printer on the 3com to be in the same subnet as the PC on the 741 #1 (and #2).

According to your solution, I can't have that. Am I right?



#10 sc302

sc302

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 36
  • Joined: 12-July 05
  • Location: NJ, USA

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:44

Another way you can do it is to create a double nat situation.  Have one router closer to the internet than the other.  The one that is directly off the internet would be your guest network and the router behind that would be your secure network.  The guest network would never see anything on the secure network.  This would be the most simple way of doing it without vlans, firmware updates, or other networking equipment.  Otherwise you would (and is recommended) to have vlans and the proper networking equipment to be able to do what you want with the wireless.  That includes having access points capable of multiple vlans and ssids

Attached Images

  • sample.jpg


#11 JonnyLH

JonnyLH

    I say things.

  • Joined: 15-February 13
  • Location: UK
  • OS: W8, W7, WP8, iOS, Ubuntu
  • Phone: Nokia Lumia 920

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:50

Jonny, your idea is interesting, but as I mentioned, I need the PC and the Printer on the 3com to be in the same subnet as the PC on the 741 #1 (and #2).
According to your solution, I can't have that. Am I right?

Only way to do it is to change the subnet mask on the guest machines then, it sorta defies the point though.

#12 sc302

sc302

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 36
  • Joined: 12-July 05
  • Location: NJ, USA

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:53

Jonny, your idea is interesting, but as I mentioned, I need the PC and the Printer on the 3com to be in the same subnet as the PC on the 741 #1 (and #2).

According to your solution, I can't have that. Am I right?

If you need to be able to print from a different network, use google print or have a hp printer that supports eprint.  With these options anything that can email can print, just send the doc as an attachment.  In my scenerio you can open the port up for printing and forward it to a printer of your choosing, that would give anyone on the guest network the ability to print and not have access to anything else.



#13 OP bomba6

bomba6

    Neowinian

  • Joined: 17-October 05

Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:02

+sc302, again- the printer alone is not the problem. There are other PCs connected to the router.

Thank you all for replying.

I guess I'll just buy the 842 or 1043, or get enough courage to install DD-WRT.



#14 sc302

sc302

    Neowinian Senior

  • Tech Issues Solved: 36
  • Joined: 12-July 05
  • Location: NJ, USA

Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:14

The tp-link 842 does support multiple ssid's but it does not support vlans.  IMO if you are looking for inexpensive, build a pfsense firewall you will need a nic for each vlan (to make life easier on you), then put your waps/accesspoints on the vlans you need them to be on.



#15 The_Decryptor

The_Decryptor

    STEAL THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

  • Tech Issues Solved: 5
  • Joined: 28-September 02
  • Location: Sol System
  • OS: iSymbian 9.2 SP24.8 Mars Bar

Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:21

I wouldn't use DD-WRT, unless I'm missing something the last supported release was 5 years ago and has a known security flaw in it.