46 posts in this topic

 

For the record, don't blame the people on a decision that isn't up to them. Remember that Microsoft is the one in control here; they have the time tables and measurements of supply, not us. What they want to do and what they can actually do are two different things, and with that information, they will act accordingly.

 

Since people are claiming that MS is lying about the reason, then we have no idea what MS can actually do and what they want to do.

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Since people are claiming that MS is lying about the reason, then we have no idea what MS can actually do and what they want to do.

 

Oh, but you do: Microsoft will be the ones to let you know, not random people on the internet. :p

 

People can speculate all they want, but at the end of the day, you might as well be watching that guy on the History Channel talk about aliens.

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Except that's not the problem.

 

"Launch volumes are not really an issue. This was simply a software issue in terms of getting local language and voice support in the dash. It's pretty straightforward, but disappointing I know for people who are missing launch." - Albert Penello, Microsoft Director of Marketing

 

Source | Neowin Article

That is the same thing. If functionality is changing, so is what has to be programmed into it for the voice recognition. With drastic changes, they have to start over on that part.

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Why is this in a new thread ? except for the fact it's AB posting it ? any real reason for a separate thread ? 

 

It's just a few people posting their frustration at a delay of a console they're going to buy anyway, hardly merits a new topic.

 

 

 

Also for anyone who thinks this is a Dice poke at MS, it's not, Dice generally are more in the Xbox camp, but in reality as a company they don't care. What Dice is doing here is marketing and pushing MS. the delay is bad for Dice in regards to sales. Dice is trying to push MS to release globally in all 21 countries, even if it means the original boxes won't have localized manuals and menus. Since this means more sales for Dice. 

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Oh, but you do: Microsoft will be the ones to let you know, not random people on the internet. :p

 

People can speculate all they want, but at the end of the day, you might as well be watching that guy on the History Channel talk about aliens.

 

That's true, but people do like to hold up these 'random people on the internet' as reliable sources.

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To be honest I find this situation quite embarrassing for MS, I work for, compared to MS, a small software company and whilst we don't do localisation for everywhere. Sometimes not even at launch of a new version etc, we offer more than the current list MS is managing for release.

 

I work for a large IT company and we do localize our software and I can tell you first-hand that it's a huge undertaking that takes quite a bit of time.  I'd love to see Dice developers do it and then see if they complain.

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The way I see it is that all the changes to the system to appease the whiners on the internet have pushed back development, meaning they couldn't finish up all the localisation (interface, voice recognition, etc) in time for launch.  You can bet your bottom dollar that alot of those systems were well on the way to being complete when Microsoft caved on the whole DRM thing, and re-writing the code for them became number 1 priority. Localisation generally happens towards the end of most developments, so it's not surprising that would be the element to suffer.

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Microsoft mention about importing it into the country, surely that would be even more expensive?

 

Or even worse is if the scalpers get on the case!

 

The memories of the PS2/PS3 on eBay when they were released still makes me shudder!

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The way I see it is that all the changes to the system to appease the whiners on the internet have pushed back development, meaning they couldn't finish up all the localisation (interface, voice recognition, etc) in time for launch.  You can bet your bottom dollar that alot of those systems were well on the way to being complete when Microsoft caved on the whole DRM thing, and re-writing the code for them became number 1 priority. Localisation generally happens towards the end of most developments, so it's not surprising that would be the element to suffer.

 

Maybe if Microsoft would have gauged public opinion better, they wouldn't have had to do a 180 to begin with. Just sayin.

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Maybe if Microsoft would have gauged public opinion better, they wouldn't have had to do a 180 to begin with. Just sayin.

 

 

If Sony would have done that, maybe the PS3 would have done better early on.

 

These companies often show that they are not willing to change course until they really hear it from consumers.  It wasn't until MS announced its plans that the outcry began.  Its just a little surprising MS bit the bullet so quickly.  History shows many times when companies ignore it for much longer.

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If Sony would have done that, maybe the PS3 would have done better early on.

 

These companies often show that they are not willing to change course until they really hear it from consumers.  It wasn't until MS announced its plans that the outcry began.  Its just a little surprising MS bit the bullet so quickly.  History shows many times when companies ignore it for much longer.

 

Well, that's not totally true. The outcry began when people learned about the "always on, always connected" rumor. Microsoft tried to calm people down later on, saying that wasn't true. While they were factually correct in saying this, the stipulation that it had to phone home once every 24 hours sort of negated the expectations people had and did little to calm anyone down.

 

Now, I'm sure most of us here aren't analysts or marketing superstars, but it surely doesn't take one to grasp the idea that perhaps this wasn't going to go over well.

 

It'd be on par with telling Texans you're going to check in with them on a frequent basis to make sure their guns are legit. :p

 

--

 

As for the topic at hand, I'm curious as to how localization issues will work moving forward. Does this mean that patches, updates, and new features could be staggered as well? It's rather curious as to how this will all play out in the long run, given that the Xbox One is running with voice commands and all that such now. I'd really like to know how much time/work goes into all of it really.

 

As it stands, Microsoft has been officially off the DRM train for almost 2 months so it's rather curious how much work is going into the changes to the dash and such. My thinking is that it could easily be numerous things that we are not accounting for as well. Remember that not every plan works out, and changes can be made at any time throughout the development cycle. If something isn't working the way they intended, I wouldn't be surprised for them to not ship with said feature, holding it off until more time and resources are available so that said feature could see a proper release with proper functionality as intended.

 

Wish they'd do an AMA at some point, much like the OneNote team did. I have a lot of questions I'd like to ask. :blush:

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Well, that's not totally true. The outcry began when people learned about the "always on, always connected" rumor. Microsoft tried to calm people down later on, saying that wasn't true. While they were factually correct in saying this, the stipulation that it had to phone home once every 24 hours sort of negated the expectations people had and did little to calm anyone down.

 

Now, I'm sure most of us here aren't analysts or marketing superstars, but it surely doesn't take one to grasp the idea that perhaps this wasn't going to go over well.

 

It'd be on par with telling Texans you're going to check in with them on a frequent basis to make sure their guns are legit. :p

 

 

Well another reality I've come to see is that it must be hard for these companies to filter out what is just a vocal minority and what is a legitimate across the board issue from consumers.

 

The drm stuff reached a fever pitch once there was no change in policy announced at E3.  I saw it myself in almost all of the internet media.  It was also slipping into the mainstream media, which I guess is a sign to any company that its a wide spread topic.

 

 

As for the topic at hand, I'm curious as to how localization issues will work moving forward. Does this mean that patches, updates, and new features could be staggered as well? It's rather curious as to how this will all play out in the long run, given that the Xbox One is running with voice commands and all that such now. I'd really like to know how much time/work goes into all of it really.

 

As it stands, Microsoft has been officially off the DRM train for almost 2 months so it's rather curious how much work is going into the changes to the dash and such. My thinking is that it could easily be numerous things that we are not accounting for as well. Remember that not every plan works out, and changes can be made at any time throughout the development cycle. If something isn't working the way they intended, I wouldn't be surprised for them to not ship with said feature, holding it off until more time and resources are available so that said feature could see a proper release with proper functionality as intended.

 

Wish they'd do an AMA at some point, much like the OneNote team did. I have a lot of questions I'd like to ask. :blush:

 

 

Yeah, its clear we don't have near enough info to understand what is going on.  I believe the Xbox team did do an AMA session a while back, but they could use another.

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Maybe if Microsoft would have gauged public opinion better, they wouldn't have had to do a 180 to begin with. Just sayin.

 

I'm sorry, but what Microsoft originally had planned was the way forward, and I for one am sad it was scaled back because of an ignorant backlash from people who didn't know any better. Though I do concede that Microsoft did a **** poor job of explaining themselves and their plans this time around.

 

What is needed is a hybrid of what was previously planned and what we are now getting. Keeping physical sales as they are now, but having the digital sales function exactly as original planned. That would essentially mean two separate systems for Microsoft to cater for in their OS code though, which could mean more delays.

 

Just sayin.

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If Sony would have done that, maybe the PS3 would have done better early on.

 

These companies often show that they are not willing to change course until they really hear it from consumers.  It wasn't until MS announced its plans that the outcry began.  Its just a little surprising MS bit the bullet so quickly.  History shows many times when companies ignore it for much longer.

 

Uh we remember things very differently. The outcry started as early as April 2012

 

http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/02/xbox-720-detailed-blu-ray-inside-always-on-netcon-required/

 

It only got worse when the Durango dev kit was up for sale on eBay and the guy who leaked all the details was raided. Plus, don't forget poor little Adam Orth in April of this year who bit the bullet and all but confirmed it. Microsoft had over a year to change the DRM based on the negative feedback. But no, even when given the chance they couldn't get a clear message across. There is no sugar coating it. They ****ed it up from the start.

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No, this guy (JohnnyLH) is I think a "microsoft-defender". In a LOT of threads about the xbox, xbox360, xbox one or anything that has to do with Microsoft, you see him defending them.

You should look it up,you'll see what I mean :).

 

Back on topic, I can understand the views of the BF4 Developers, the delay of the X1 in some (more civilized) countries could potentially be a blow to the growth of the X1 and so on...

 

A Microsoft defender? What, does he hold a shield or something?

 

z6164299Q,Windows-Defender.jpg

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Uh we remember things very differently. The outcry started as early as April 2012

 

http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/02/xbox-720-detailed-blu-ray-inside-always-on-netcon-required/

 

It only got worse when the Durango dev kit was up for sale on eBay and the guy who leaked all the details was raided. Plus, don't forget poor little Adam Orth in April of this year who bit the bullet and all but confirmed it. Microsoft had over a year to change the DRM based on the negative feedback. But no, even when given the chance they couldn't get a clear message across. There is no sugar coating it. They ****ed it up from the start.

 

 

I never said they didn't screw up, why is this even an argument? When did I sugar coat it?

 

Geez, my only point was that MS apparently didn't see the outcry as hitting critical mass until E3.  I never said there was no opposition to it before that, or that MS was all perfect up to that point.

 

Since neither you nor I know what MS was thinking or what they saw as a serious issue or not regarding the opposition, I'm simply speculating on why they didn't announce a change until shortly after E3.

 

This all goes back to my first point that MS decided to bite the bullet and change course before their product even launched, is a tad unusual in this industry.  Most of the time, they push forward, try to market the problems away, and wait until the next version to do any big changes.  Sony was the latest example of that with the PS3 in my opinion.

 

MS and Sony get the blame for their initial mistakes, but they both get the credit when the good choices are made.

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I'm sorry, but what Microsoft originally had planned was the way forward, and I for one am sad it was scaled back because of an ignorant backlash from people who didn't know any better. Though I do concede that Microsoft did a **** poor job of explaining themselves and their plans this time around.

 

What is needed is a hybrid of what was previously planned and what we are now getting. Keeping physical sales as they are now, but having the digital sales function exactly as original planned. That would essentially mean two separate systems for Microsoft to cater for in their OS code though, which could mean more delays.

 

Just sayin.

 

And given Microsoft's history for compromise, that's what had me astounded with their "my way or the highway" sort of mentality. I agree with everything you're saying. My point was that making such an abrupt change just wasn't likely to happen. You knew that, hell we all did, and we're not even "experts" here. :ermm:

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Poor Xbox team, they can never win. If they decided to release in Sweden without supporting Swedish they would be slammed even harder.

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I never said they didn't screw up, why is this even an argument? When did I sugar coat it?

 

Geez, my only point was that MS apparently didn't see the outcry as hitting critical mass until E3.  I never said there was no opposition to it before that, or that MS was all perfect up to that point.

 

Since neither you nor I know what MS was thinking or what they saw as a serious issue or not regarding the opposition, I'm simply speculating on why they didn't announce a change until shortly after E3.

 

This all goes back to my first point that MS decided to bite the bullet and change course before their product even launched, is a tad unusual in this industry.  Most of the time, they push forward, try to market the problems away, and wait until the next version to do any big changes.  Sony was the latest example of that with the PS3 in my opinion.

 

MS and Sony get the blame for their initial mistakes, but they both get the credit when the good choices are made.

 

It couldn't reach the tipping point before MS confirmed it for themselves but there was a big storm brewing the whole time. Their reluctance to speak about it any earlier than May probably suggests they knew themselves they were going to have a hard sell. Not least because of the previous 12 months of people saying they didn't want Kinect 2 built into the console or online requirements. When all the details about pre-owned surfaced it just made matters worse. Seriously just read some of the comments on that VG247 article and look at the reaction. That was just the start of things to come :no:

 

I'm 50/50 on when they decided to change their plans. I think it probably happened somewhere between the Reveal and E3. Microsoft have never struck me as the company who backs down at the first sign of opposition and they probably thought Sony would also have something similar to announce. When Sony didn't do that and MS saw the negative press/drop in interest etc etc they probably scrambled to change it. We'll probably know more over the coming years or once the successor is released and they'll speak more freely about the development struggles behind X1.

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I'm 50/50 on when they decided to change their plans. I think it probably happened somewhere between the Reveal and E3. Microsoft have never struck me as the company who backs down at the first sign of opposition and they probably thought Sony would also have something similar to announce. When Sony didn't do that and MS saw the negative press/drop in interest etc etc they probably scrambled to change it. We'll probably know more over the coming years or once the successor is released and they'll speak more freely about the development struggles behind X1.

 

You basically said exactly what I have been saying.

 

They waited for E3 to see how Sony would react and if they could cool the anger with all of their gaming announcements.  Once Sony made their big jab at MS and the anger did not subside, MS decided to take the hit and make the change.  Your absolutely right that there was plenty of venting before this, I never claimed otherwise, but it was the event surrounding E3 that I believe pushed MS to act.  E3 seemed to be their last attempt to ride out the storm.

 

 

Regardless, that's all in the past now and thankfully, MS did change, resulting in a positive set of changes that have continued since then.  Now people are actually getting excited for the console again and there is real positive news.  At the same time Sony has started to come down to earth from its high point pr wise and the next gen console race suddenly looks a lot different.

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And given Microsoft's history for compromise, that's what had me astounded with their "my way or the highway" sort of mentality. I agree with everything you're saying. My point was that making such an abrupt change just wasn't likely to happen. You knew that, hell we all did, and we're not even "experts" here. :ermm:

 

Great point there.  MS is the company of legacy support, backwards compatibility, etc.  They are one of the few companies that tries to avoid drastic changes as much as possible and people are used to that.

 

Every time MS tries to make big changes, there is automatic blow back.  Sometimes that's bad pr, sometimes its bad execution, and sometimes its just a general MS resistance.

 

Out of the big tech companies, I think MS gets the most blow back when they rock boat too much. 

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