Windows tablets not bad!

[patseguin Global Moderator]

I was in Best Buy today and they had an RT and a Pro side by side and I thought they were really nice. The keyboard is very cool. The display is also very nice as was the speed on both of them. I am not totally up on Surface tablets, but I noticed the RT didn't have a desktop tile and the Pro did. I take it the Pro is meant to be able to do more desktop tasks. The 128GB Pro was there at $999 and a 32GB RT which I forget the price. I still think iOS and Android will corner the tablet market but I must say that they seem like very nice devices.

[Order_66]

I purchased a surface rt a few weeks ago, mine has both the regular desktop and the metro interface, I've had a love/hate relationship with the surface due to the desktop side being utterly worthless.

 

Good device tho for the money.

[_dandy_]

You just missed the desktop tile--it's definitely there on the RT device and fully functional, but you can't install third-party desktop apps (or even Microsoft's own, other than what ships with it) as it's an ARM CPU.

 

I have both, and the most important distinction between the RT and the Pro is that the Pro is a full-blown Intel i5 CPU.  With a USB dock that lets you hook up more than one USB device at a time, I use mine as a desktop replacement--I have three 1920x1200 24" monitors hooked up to it, my full-size keyboard, mouse, 5.1 audio, etc.  Since it's "regular" Windows, any 64-bit Windows driver simply works with it (even most Windows 7 and Vista ones; the driver model hasn't changed).  It's a PC in tablet form, and if Microsoft only made people understand that, I'd wager that sales would pick up - people simply aren't aware of what you can do with it...instead they just read about the lackluster app store and think it's a no-starter.  Personally, I've hardly installed any store app, and hardly even see the much-maligned Metro UI once I'm up and running.

 

Oh, and since the CPU supports hardware virtualization, and Windows 8 comes with HyperV, I actually have some VMs running on it, including Linux ones.  Try that with the toy tablets...

[patseguin Global Moderator]

You just missed the desktop tile--it's definitely there on the RT device and fully functional, but you can't install third-party desktop apps (or even Microsoft's own, other than what ships with it) as it's an ARM CPU.

 

I have both, and the most important distinction between the RT and the Pro is that the Pro is a full-blown Intel i5 CPU.  With a USB dock that lets you hook up more than one USB device at a time, I use mine as a desktop replacement--I have three 1920x1200 24" monitors hooked up to it, my full-size keyboard, mouse, 5.1 audio, etc.  Since it's "regular" Windows, any 64-bit Windows driver simply works with it (even most Windows 7 and Vista ones; the driver model hasn't changed).  It's a PC in tablet form, and if Microsoft only made people understand that, I'd wager that sales would pick up - people simply aren't aware of what you can do with it...instead they just read about the lackluster app store and think it's a no-starter.  Personally, I've hardly installed any store app, and hardly even see the much-maligned Metro UI once I'm up and running.

 

Oh, and since the CPU supports hardware virtualization, and Windows 8 comes with HyperV, I actually have some VMs running on it, including Linux ones.  Try that with the toy tablets...

You make quite an intriguing case. I imagine that the only thing it's not great for is gamig right?

[_dandy_]

You make quite an intriguing case. I imagine that the only thing it's not great for is gamig right?

 

Well, it's no ATI or Nvidia GPU.  Device Manager calls it "Intel HD Graphics 4000".

 

It can run HD videos fullscreen on all three of my monitors at the same time--not that I ever realistically need to do this.  So that's plenty good for me.  I'm not a gamer.

[George P Global Moderator]

The limitation of the desktop on RT devices in general will be less and less of a issue as the metro side gains features that at this point you still need to go to the desktop to do. Other than that it's just better store apps that are needed, something that will take time.

[aviator189]

i freaking love my surface pro.  

i can just stuff it inside my jacket and use it as a gaming machine, productivity workhorse, and for some casual entertainment.  

 

best decision i've made regarding tech.  

[Dot Matrix]

The desktop exists on RT, for Office to run, however it is locked by MSFT. Even if it was unlocked, you would need developers to recompile their apps for the ARM architecture, which isn't likely to happen. MSFT also has the desktop tile unpinned from the Start Screen by default for this very reason.

[patseguin Global Moderator]

The desktop exists on RT, for Office to run, however it is locked by MSFT. Even if it was unlocked, you would need developers to recompile their apps for the ARM architecture, which isn't likely to happen. MSFT also has the desktop tile unpinned from the Start Screen by default for this very reason.

That makes sense. I'd guess that the RT wouldn't be for me. I may take a closer look at the Surface Pro 2 now.

[Dot Matrix]

Surface Pro 2 would still be an excellent choice. :yes:

[drazgoosh]

I bought my Surface RT (1st Gen) a month back and am really happy with it. The occasional slight lag but overall quite impressive for a tablet that came out 1? years ago. Windows 8.1 RT is definitely a must have. Just waiting for a few more/better apps on the Store and I'll be satisfied. 

[123456789A]

Well I just ordered a Surface Pro 2 128gb because they had a deal going at the store. Does anyone here have experience using OneNote on the Pro?

 

I also ordered a Type Cover 2 with it, but I was wondering how well the pen works.

[patseguin Global Moderator]

Would you guys say Pro or RT is better?

[primexx]

Would you guys say Pro or RT is better?

 

dependns what you need.

 

full ultrabook in a tablet form factor? Pro.

 

tablet that does more than any other tablet out there? RT.

 

or more practically - do you really need it to run x86?

[simplezz]

but you can't install third-party desktop apps (or even Microsoft's own, other than what ships with it) as it's an ARM CPU.

Isn't that more an artificial limitation imposed by Microsoft rather than just the fact that it runs on an ARM architecture. There's no technical reason why a Windows desktop app couldn't be recompiled for ARM and run on RT. In fact, I'm pretty sure Microsoft would sell a hell of a lot more of them if they did that.

[HawkMan]

The desktop exists on RT, for Office to run, however it is locked by MSFT. Even if it was unlocked, you would need developers to recompile their apps for the ARM architecture, which isn't likely to happen. MSFT also has the desktop tile unpinned from the Start Screen by default for this very reason.

 

 

Didn't someone unlock the desktop and emulator, or was it just the desktop to install recompiled apps?, on RT and Microsoft said they where impressed and would do nothing to stop it, it didn't even require any special hacks or jailbreaking. 

[Dot Matrix]

Would you guys say Pro or RT is better?

Depends on what you want to do. Personally, I have a Surface RT, since all I need is a travel companion, and tablet for school. RT fits that bill. If you plan on running desktop applications, you'll need Pro. If not, you may be able to scoot by with an RT.

[chrisj1968]

stupid question but I'll ask anyway:

 

Q:" Can the pro versions of the surface line run desktop apps?"

[Max Norris]

Q:" Can the pro versions of the surface line run desktop apps?"

Yup, it's your typical Windows setup in a really small package, same software.  Need to get one of these down the road, my one old junker (the plastic brick) is stuck with XP Tablet, ugh.

[Romero]

Didn't someone unlock the desktop and emulator, or was it just the desktop to install recompiled apps?, on RT and Microsoft said they where impressed and would do nothing to stop it, it didn't even require any special hacks or jailbreaking. 

 

There's no inbuilt x86 emulator and the jailbreak to allow third-party ARM executables stopped working with 8.1. It did involve some impressive hacks but for the end user all one had to do to jailbreak was to run a batch file on startup.

[chrisj1968]

There's no inbuilt x86 emulator and the jailbreak to allow third-party ARM executables stopped working with 8.1. It did involve some impressive hacks but for the end user all one had to do to jailbreak was to run a batch file on startup.

my daughter would kill me if I tried to do that. with my luck.. I'd turn her RT 1st gen into a brick or mug holder.

[link6155]

 

If you really want to get the most out of Windows RT, you can "jailbreak" them. This allows you to side load apps and run 3rd party desktop apps (only ones that's been ported to arm. So far there's not many apps that have been ported, you can see a list here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348

 

Someone did attempt to make a emulator that lets you run x86 desktop apps, but he has abandoned the project (but he left the source code for anyone who wants to continue it): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934

I would just get a surface pro or another Windows 8 tablet rather than a RT device simply because you can do everything RT does and so much more without.

[HawkMan]

There's no inbuilt x86 emulator and the jailbreak to allow third-party ARM executables stopped working with 8.1. It did involve some impressive hacks but for the end user all one had to do to jailbreak was to run a batch file on startup.

 

Office runs or ran on a built in x86 emulator, but it was lcoked up so you can't use it without specially signed code. 

[Romero]

Office runs or ran on a built in x86 emulator, but it was lcoked up so you can't use it without specially signed code.

 

You mean to say Office RT actually runs in a built-in x86 emulator? Or that x86 Office would run unmodified in Windows RT because of an in-built x86 emulator if only it were signed appropriately? :huh:

[_dandy_]

Isn't that more an artificial limitation imposed by Microsoft rather than just the fact that it runs on an ARM architecture. There's no technical reason why a Windows desktop app couldn't be recompiled for ARM and run on RT. In fact, I'm pretty sure Microsoft would sell a hell of a lot more of them if they did that.

 

That's just it, where are you going to get your ARM compiler to produce desktop apps?  If that's your definition of an "artificial limitation", then yeah, it's totally artificial.  I was just saying that the original poster shouldn't expect to be able to take an already existing Windows desktop program and just run it on the RT tablet--whereas in the case of the Surface Pro, you can.

 

As for those apps that have been "ported", as others have brought up in this thread--I can't say I've ever cared enough to look into them.  The desktop running on ARM is a dead end, and even if Microsoft had a version of Visual Studio that could simply recompile existing source code so the binaries "just worked" on the ARM CPU, I wouldn't even bother recompiling my own apps.

 

You mean to say Office RT actually runs in a built-in x86 emulator? Or that x86 Office would run unmodified in Windows RT because of an in-built x86 emulator if only it were signed appropriately? :huh:

 

Microsoft recompiled the Office source to produce the version that runs natively on RT's ARM CPU just like they did for all the desktop apps like calc.exe and notepad.exe.  There's no "x86 emulator".