Xbox One game installing question

[Alladaskill17]

So I uninstalled Ryse because I was having issues updating it, it would tell me there was an update, but that I wasn't connected to the internet (though I clearly was as it was finding the update and I was in party chat with friends etc.).

 

Anyways, now, even though the disc is in the console, it appears that the game is installing from the XBL store rather than the disc and just downloading a few updates, why is this and is there a way to force installing from the disc? I've had the XB1 since day one, and have bought multiple games and both of these issues are the first time I've come across them.

[McKay]

  On 13/04/2014 at 16:27, Alladaskill17 said:

So I uninstalled Ryse because I was having issues updating it, it would tell me there was an update, but that I wasn't connected to the internet (though I clearly was as it was finding the update and I was in party chat with friends etc.).

 

Anyways, now, even though the disc is in the console, it appears that the game is installing from the XBL store rather than the disc and just downloading a few updates, why is this and is there a way to force installing from the disc? I've had the XB1 since day one, and have bought multiple games and both of these issues are the first time I've come across them.

Disconnect it from WiFi before installing? Then connect to Xbox live after installation.

[Alladaskill17]

  On 13/04/2014 at 16:35, McKay said:

Disconnect it from WiFi before installing? Then connect to Xbox live after installation.

Yeah I thought about that but its at 98% now, but I just want to know why it would opt to download when it can pull everything (except updates) from the disc :/

[neoadorable]

As far as I know the OS has the prerogative of choosing where to get the file as the disc is basically just the installer and the offline backup. As you said if you're totally offline then it will go for the disc, but if you're online it will always get it from the servers as that's the latest version, even if the disc is inside the device. Why before it kept telling you you're offline - must have been a glitch with Wi-Fi, it happens, the console seems to need a hard reset and/or a router reset once in a while.

 

As long as the game ends up working properly, just enjoy it.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

For some reason the patch on Ryse was INSANELY huge. On a brand new One it took over 3 hours to install for me, and connection to the internet was blazing fast.

I just chalked it up to being a new console release and everyone hitting the servers at the same time.

Truth is for some reason the One just takes an insanely long time to install certain games. Way longer than PC games took, and that is crazy considering how long they used to be.

[jerzdawg]

  On 14/04/2014 at 02:52, neoadorable said:

As far as I know the OS has the prerogative of choosing where to get the file as the disc is basically just the installer and the offline backup. As you said if you're totally offline then it will go for the disc, but if you're online it will always get it from the servers as that's the latest version, even if the disc is inside the device. Why before it kept telling you you're offline - must have been a glitch with Wi-Fi, it happens, the console seems to need a hard reset and/or a router reset once in a while.

 

As long as the game ends up working properly, just enjoy it.

if the bolded part is true.. I would love to have the option to dictate what is being done.  I see no reason to download 25 gb + of data if its already located on the disk.

[trooper11]

  On 15/04/2014 at 20:30, jerzdawg said:

if the bolded part is true.. I would love to have the option to dictate what is being done.  I see no reason to download 25 gb + of data if its already located on the disk.

Both consoles require all data be pulled to the hard drive for performance reasons. The reality is that Sony and MS are admitting that a bluray drive is simply inadequate when it comes to streaming data that is used by a game.

  On 14/04/2014 at 15:23, DirtyLarry said:

For some reason the patch on Ryse was INSANELY huge. On a brand new One it took over 3 hours to install for me, and connection to the internet was blazing fast.

I just chalked it up to being a new console release and everyone hitting the servers at the same time.

Truth is for some reason the One just takes an insanely long time to install certain games. Way longer than PC games took, and that is crazy considering how long they used to be.

Comparing pc to X1 leaves out a big point: DVD vs Bluray

There is a reason that both Sony and MS mandate that games get installed to the drive and not streamed from the disc.

Its why Sony was pushing everyone to do that for the PS3 and why MS was much more laid back about that option for the 360.

[jerzdawg]

  On 16/04/2014 at 03:20, trooper11 said:

Both consoles require all data be pulled to the hard drive for performance reasons. The reality is that Sony and MS are admitting that a bluray drive is simply inadequate when it comes to streaming data that is used by a game.

not sure you answered what I was referring to.  in an earlier post someone mentioned the xbox chooses whether to download the entire game vs installing the game from the disk for the sake of updates...

[McKay]

  On 14/04/2014 at 15:23, DirtyLarry said:

For some reason the patch on Ryse was INSANELY huge. On a brand new One it took over 3 hours to install for me, and connection to the internet was blazing fast.

I just chalked it up to being a new console release and everyone hitting the servers at the same time.

Truth is for some reason the One just takes an insanely long time to install certain games. Way longer than PC games took, and that is crazy considering how long they used to be.

 

It was like that for mine. Took me nearly 30 hours to download Battlefield 4, checked my connection and saw the Xbox was only downloading at around 150kb/s. Things like Steam max out my connection at around 1mb/s.

[trooper11]

  On 16/04/2014 at 12:41, jerzdawg said:

not sure you answered what I was referring to.  in an earlier post someone mentioned the xbox chooses whether to download the entire game vs installing the game from the disk for the sake of updates...

You said you wanted an option to dictate when data was installed to the hard drive. I was pointing out why MS is not offering you that option. They do not believe that the bluray drive is capable of moving data off the disc fast enough for a game to use real time.

Every disc-based game gets installed to the hard drive, the OS does not pick and choose what data gets moved, its always installing to the hard drive.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

  On 16/04/2014 at 03:20, trooper11 said:

Comparing pc to X1 leaves out a big point: DVD vs Bluray

There is a reason that both Sony and MS mandate that games get installed to the drive and not streamed from the disc.

Its why Sony was pushing everyone to do that for the PS3 and why MS was much more laid back about that option for the 360.

What I was saying was one would think that over the years things would have improved in regards to how long it takes to install a game and they have not, and in some cases they actually appeared to have gotten worse. The only reason I referenced installing games back in the day on the PC because anyone who has done so can relate to what a truly slow and tedious process it was. Especially since there was a time you had to swap out the CD's. etc. I remember more than one game on the PC that needed at least 5 disks to install, and as the installer you had to sit there and swap out disks. The process itself was super slow. 

 

So I was saying you would think as time and technology has passed the install process itself would have continued to get better and it has not. That is all.

 

Now what could be done to make up for the lack of speed is to change the process itself. It is why there is such a drastic difference between installing a game on the One and on the PS4. Sony clearly acknowledged the fact it is still a painful process and just requires an initial install to get the game to a playable state and the rest of the install happens in the background while one can launch the game. MS appears to have chosen the more tried and true approach of requiring the entire game to be installed first.

 

So it is crazy that while so many years have passed, the process itself has not gotten any better, and in fact it appears to be worse then ever.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

  On 16/04/2014 at 15:50, DirtyLarry said:

What I was saying was one would think that over the years things would have improved in regards to how long it takes to install a game and they have not, and in some cases they actually appeared to have gotten worse. The only reason I referenced installing games back in the day on the PC because anyone who has done so can relate to what a truly slow and tedious process it was. Especially since there was a time you had to swap out the CD's. etc. I remember more than one game on the PC that needed at least 5 disks to install, and as the installer you had to sit there and swap out disks. The process itself was super slow. 

 

So I was saying you would think as time and technology has passed the install process itself would have continued to get better and it has not. That is all.

 

Now what could be done to make up for the lack of speed is to change the process itself. It is why there is such a drastic difference between installing a game on the One and on the PS4. Sony clearly acknowledged the fact it is still a painful process and just requires an initial install to get the game to a playable state and the rest of the install happens in the background while one can launch the game. MS appears to have chosen the more tried and true approach of requiring the entire game to be installed first.

 

So it is crazy that while so many years have passed, the process itself has not gotten any better, and in fact it appears to be worse then ever.

 

It's weird too, because MS already experimented with "tray and play" back in 2007 with Halo 2 on PC. Blizzard still use this method with every game in their lineup today.

 

Perhaps the traditional install method is to allow devs to place data on the disc where they like, but with the latter this isn't possible or even slower.

[trooper11]

  On 16/04/2014 at 15:50, DirtyLarry said:

Now what could be done to make up for the lack of speed is to change the process itself. It is why there is such a drastic difference between installing a game on the One and on the PS4. Sony clearly acknowledged the fact it is still a painful process and just requires an initial install to get the game to a playable state and the rest of the install happens in the background while one can launch the game. MS appears to have chosen the more tried and true approach of requiring the entire game to be installed first.

 

So it is crazy that while so many years have passed, the process itself has not gotten any better, and in fact it appears to be worse then ever.

Yeah Sony right now has the faster method of installing games. My ps4 game installs are definitely faster to get me into the game thanks to the process of streaming the rest of the data while I'm in the game.

The weird thing is that MS has this option too (whether that is applying updates or just installing from a disc, you do get a chance to place the game before its done), but it doesn't happen as quickly as on the ps4, so there is clearly room for improvement.

 

 

  On 16/04/2014 at 20:13, Andrew G. said:

It's weird too, because MS already experimented with "tray and play" back in 2007 with Halo 2 on PC. Blizzard still use this method with every game in their lineup today.

 

Perhaps the traditional install method is to allow devs to place data on the disc where they like, but with the latter this isn't possible or even slower.

MS has even more experience with the whole use software before its done installing thanks to their efforts with Office and the 'click-to-run' functions.

I'm not sure why MS has not been able to offer the same performance for games that it does on the pc for software or to match what Sony is doing, but considering its a software issues, maybe they can fix it.

[neoadorable]

  On 15/04/2014 at 20:30, jerzdawg said:

if the bolded part is true.. I would love to have the option to dictate what is being done.  I see no reason to download 25 gb + of data if its already located on the disk.

 

Jerz, i've uninstalled and installed Dead Rising 3 several times, and in all cases it said "installing" without any sound from the drive. In terms of time it also took what i'd expect a 30GB or so file to download on my connection. So my conclusion is that it was from the servers, not from the disc, as this game has a 13GB or so update to it. I believe what i said is true, and many people have been circumventing that by simply turning internet off (you can switch Wi-Fi off and disconnect LAN, then the console is obviously offline). When in this state, the OS has no choice but to install from the disc from what i've seen. But the second you go online it will start downloading any updates available for your games/apps.

[jerzdawg]

  On 17/04/2014 at 03:31, neoadorable said:

Jerz, i've uninstalled and installed Dead Rising 3 several times, and in all cases it said "installing" without any sound from the drive. In terms of time it also took what i'd expect a 30GB or so file to download on my connection. So my conclusion is that it was from the servers, not from the disc, as this game has a 13GB or so update to it. I believe what i said is true, and many people have been circumventing that by simply turning internet off (you can switch Wi-Fi off and disconnect LAN, then the console is obviously offline). When in this state, the OS has no choice but to install from the disc from what i've seen. But the second you go online it will start downloading any updates available for your games/apps.

hmm.. seems stupid to me to ignore the disk with the majority of the data and download the whole thing.  I am not going to unplug my ethernet everytime I need to install a game.  oh well.

[Roger H. Veteran]

Makes sense to download a patched install vs install from the disc then download the patch. Which do you think would take longer?

With the patches already there overwriting the old data, no need to waste time and power installing it only to overwrite it later once the patch is downloaded. Yes they prolly could skip the patched section from the disc but that would take an updated installer which would come from online in any case.

[neoadorable]

  On 17/04/2014 at 14:15, jerzdawg said:

hmm.. seems stupid to me to ignore the disk with the majority of the data and download the whole thing.  I am not going to unplug my ethernet everytime I need to install a game.  oh well.

 

Yeah as Roger said they are trying to do the right thing and give us the most up to date version of the files(s) available, rather then use the original verison, then slow us down by looking for inevitable updates. The intention is good, the result may be problematic. As Roger also said, it would require a much smarter algorithm and therefore more processing power and bandwidth to create a really intelligent installer that would know which files to get from the disc and which to get online. Since their intention is to eventually go all live anyway, i would not expect too much investment in disc installers. As long as we can keep playing in the event of internet outage, i'm fine. Not in a rush to play any game, can always go make dinner or take a nap or something while it downloads, which doesn't seem to take very long. On both PS4 and X1 downloads are literally supercharged compared to PS3/360.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I'm not sure it really does cut down on bandwidth, not unless patches have reached 40 GB :laugh:

 

It'd make more sense to install from disc and then download a patch (1 GB for BF4 etc). Dead Rising 3's patch was so large because it included the DLC whether you owned it or not to maintain compatibility in co-op. Not a regular occurrence and I doubt we'll see many devs repeat it.

[neoadorable]

Even Forza 5 just had a 1.6GB update for Long Beach, which is substantial. But certainly not in the dozens of GB range, not yet. Not for a while!

Guess it's all part of the push for online-only, unless patched in later firmware i suppose that's how it will keep working - if you want to install from the disc only, then the console will need to be fully offline.