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Posted

The point i was making in my original post is gamers would not have been free to sell games as they pleased, it was at "participating retailers only". Most likely meaning no Ebay / Amazon, with the places your been allowed to sell games been stores like Game in the UK, who give you very little for your game, then often sell it for twice as much.
 
As we all know many publishers disapprove of the second hand games market, so I would personally be amazed if we would have had the freedom we do now when it comes to used games if it was left up to the publishers.
 
That's why I personally feel the consumer won.

So how do I sell my used game on steam?

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So how do I sell my used game on steam?

 

you got me stumped? but WE LOVE STEAM!!!!!! haha

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Posted

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the 80% discounted game. I'm talking about the full game that steam makes me pay $89.99 for...

 

Also, they are PoS when you need a refund because the game you bought doesn't work or is full of so many bugs that you can't even go past 2nd level. Their support replies in weeks not in days/hours.

 

Compared to that, when I needed refund for something from MS, it was done within a day.

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Posted

 

You're perpetuating a falsehood. Microsoft had clearly stated that the resale of games would be possible at participating retailers. Whatever those retailers were is a mystery now. It could have been all the major players, and all it might have needed was a system to read the disc and unbind it from your Live account. Again, more assumptions and claims about how something we never got all the details for works.

 

But Emnity, why participating retailers? Why can't i just sell you my copy of Ryse for five bucks? Or give it to you for that matter? You can't blame people for knee-jerk reacting to the idea that this would not have been possible had Don's vision been realized for X1.

 

And no, this doesn't mean i'm giving you my copy of Ryse, i'm keeping it :huh:

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Posted

But Emnity, why participating retailers? Why can't i just sell you my copy of Ryse for five bucks? Or give it to you for that matter? You can't blame people for knee-jerk reacting to the idea that this would not have been possible had Don's vision been realized for X1.
 
And no, this doesn't mean i'm giving you my copy of Ryse, i'm keeping it :huh:

Why can't I just make copies of DVDs and BDs! ;)

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Posted

If you want people to RTFM, create a better FM. -somebody giving a TED talk.

 

If you want people to accept your ###### ####ing DRM, create less ###### ####ing oppressive DRM. -Me.

 

simples.

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Posted

But Emnity, why participating retailers? Why can't i just sell you my copy of Ryse for five bucks? Or give it to you for that matter? You can't blame people for knee-jerk reacting to the idea that this would not have been possible had Don's vision been realized for X1.

 

And no, this doesn't mean i'm giving you my copy of Ryse, i'm keeping it :huh:

 

I get the feeling people think that "participating" means selected by Microsoft in some effort to limit your options. If a retailer chooses not to participate, that's not Microsofts fault. It's the retailer who opted out.

And why can't you just sell me it? You can using the previous plans sell the copy over Live. As for gifting it, if I recall games could be gifted easily over Live as well I think one time. It's not so difficult to do what you're asking, the only requirement be that you have them on your friend's list for I think it was 30 days beforehand (which if you both own the console and play together shouldn't be difficult to fulfill).

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Posted

I get the feeling people think that "participating" means selected by Microsoft in some effort to limit your options. If a retailer chooses not to participate, that's not Microsofts fault. It's the retailer who opted out.

And why can't you just sell me it? You can using the previous plans sell the copy over Live. As for gifting it, if I recall games could be gifted easily over Live as well I think one time. It's not so difficult to do what you're asking, the only requirement be that you have them on your friend's list for I think it was 30 days beforehand (which if you both own the console and play together shouldn't be difficult to fulfill).

 

Everything you describe is doable but just too much for what most people associate with consoles. Sure it helps stop piracy, but it goes against decades of habit. In this scenario i couldn't just give you Ryse, we'd need to use the Live swap meet or something like that. So all of it would have to be with the explicit approval of MS. Of course even now they can block any game for an online console, but they don't. And it's true Steam and Origin do even less for customers, yet catch less flack. It is hyporcisy, but even i think it's too early for such a model on living room consoles.

 

When the majority of games are downloaded and users hardly ever purchase physical copies, i think implementing measures like these will be seen as a positive. With tradition still holding strong, they're too controversial to work.

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Posted

Everything you describe is doable but just too much for what most people associate with consoles. Sure it helps stop piracy, but it goes against decades of habit. In this scenario i couldn't just give you Ryse, we'd need to use the Live swap meet or something like that. So all of it would have to be with the explicit approval of MS. Of course even now they can block any game for an online console, but they don't. And it's true Steam and Origin do even less for customers, yet catch less flack. It is hyporcisy, but even i think it's too early for such a model on living room consoles.

 

When the majority of games are downloaded and users hardly ever purchase physical copies, i think implementing measures like these will be seen as a positive. With tradition still holding strong, they're too controversial to work.

 

If you think the DRM was about piracy you're mistaken. That's not the point. And you could "just give me" Ryse by merely logging into your Live account, and transferring the game or sharing it with me. Then you log out and I in and what do you know, I have the game. And conveniently you didn't even need to bring the disc! There are many conveniences and inconveniences to sharing games in that fashion. More steps, but more flexible. You may not think the pros outweigh the cons but others might think they do. I for one would have loved to be able to check out games from my friends and try before I buy. And I would be perfectly fine with a 24hr check-in for that feature.

 

And if we don't let things progress... we'll never get to that point. Digital downloads and DRM are inevitable. Postponing it doesn't solve anything.

And yes, Steam at any time can revoke all your game licenses. And that has happened to me in the past. So don't think Steam or Origin are immune to power flexing when it comes to DRM. They aren't. Until people can accept the fact that digital media's convenience comes at a price then things will never go anywhere. I don't even think most of the people realize that all their Steam games aren't really theirs.

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Posted

If you think the DRM was about piracy you're mistaken. That's not the point. And you could "just give me" Ryse by merely logging into your Live account, and transferring the game or sharing it with me. Then you log out and I in and what do you know, I have the game. And conveniently you didn't even need to bring the disc! There are many conveniences and inconveniences to sharing games in that fashion. More steps, but more flexible. You may not think the pros outweigh the cons but others might think they do. I for one would have loved to be able to check out games from my friends and try before I buy. And I would be perfectly fine with a 24hr check-in for that feature.

 

And if we don't let things progress... we'll never get to that point. Digital downloads and DRM are inevitable. Postponing it doesn't solve anything.

And yes, Steam at any time can revoke all your game licenses. And that has happened to me in the past. So don't think Steam or Origin are immune to power flexing when it comes to DRM. They aren't. Until people can accept the fact that digital media's convenience comes at a price then things will never go anywhere. I don't even think most of the people realize that all their Steam games aren't really theirs.

 

Well aware of the Steam and Origin situation. And of the entire digital media predicament where we don't buy anything, we buy the right to use the software until they say otherwise.

I think this is well known.

 

Everything you say is true, it's just that MS came out and said it. Quite bluntly. I'm not against what they were trying to do - except for the 24 hour call home, which is unfair and unrealistic. The digital aspect of things is inevitable, but needs to be worked it in more tactfully over time.

 

I'm not arguing with you, rather agreeing. I know we have long moved past the point of owning anything when it comes to media. If Valve decides to close up shop tomorrow, which is easier for them as they're privately owned, then our hundreds of Steam games would indeed simply vanish. I have no idea what would happen next, there hasn't been too many precedents that i can think of right now.

 

But MS should not gave done it, they are too big and not seen as mavericks. They're considered a safe bet, and consoles are seen by most consumers as a traditional way to get entertainment. MS tried messing with this formula a big too much initially, hence the backlash. I agree it's an inevitable future, and i wouldn't worry about stagnation, it is coming.

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Posted

Well aware of the Steam and Origin situation. And of the entire digital media predicament where we don't buy anything, we buy the right to use the software until they say otherwise.

I think this is well known.

 

Everything you say is true, it's just that MS came out and said it. Quite bluntly. I'm not against what they were trying to do - except for the 24 hour call home, which is unfair and unrealistic. The digital aspect of things is inevitable, but needs to be worked it in more tactfully over time.

 

I'm not arguing with you, rather agreeing. I know we have long moved past the point of owning anything when it comes to media. If Valve decides to close up shop tomorrow, which is easier for them as they're privately owned, then our hundreds of Steam games would indeed simply vanish. I have no idea what would happen next, there hasn't been too many precedents that i can think of right now.

 

But MS should not gave done it, they are too big and not seen as mavericks. They're considered a safe bet, and consoles are seen by most consumers as a traditional way to get entertainment. MS tried messing with this formula a big too much initially, hence the backlash. I agree it's an inevitable future, and i wouldn't worry about stagnation, it is coming.

 

Not true

 

4sa1Ln6.jpg

 

Just one example of someone asking Valve what would happen. It's actually been known publicly for a long time, including from Gabe himself. They have contingency plans in place (Y).

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Posted

Not true

 

4sa1Ln6.jpg

 

Just one example of someone asking Valve what would happen. It's actually been known publicly for a long time, including from Gabe himself. They have contingency plans in place (Y).

 

Which are employed on a case by case basis. My account was hijacked in the time I was inactive for two years back in 2005-2007. Steam disabled my account, and upon asking them to re-activate it or somehow return my games their one and only response was: "We cannot reactive deactivated accounts. We apologize for the inconvenience." I lost about $200/$300 worth of games at that time and since then I've come to terms with the fact that Steam at any time can take my games away.

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Posted

Which are employed on a case by case basis. My account was hijacked in the time I was inactive for two years back in 2005-2007. Steam disabled my account, and upon asking them to re-activate it or somehow return my games their one and only response was: "We cannot reactive deactivated accounts. We apologize for the inconvenience." I lost about $200/$300 worth of games at that time and since then I've come to terms with the fact that Steam at any time can take my games away.

 

Individual situations are a case by case basis sure, but Andy is not talking about that, he's addressing the whole steam network being discontinued.

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Individual situations are a case by case basis sure, but Andy is not talking about that, he's addressing the whole steam network being discontinued.

 

This.

 

Neo was talking about the whole of Steam vanishing and our game collections with it, which won't happen.

 

Steam support is pretty terrible I hear. I've never had any issues myself but read about it all the time on Reddit. I'd give it another go and contact support again if I were you Emn1ty. I don't believe deactivated accounts exist anymore and you can definitely get them back once they've investigated and provided proof you're the original owner. They use "cooldown" features to stop people buying/trading on your account when you log in from new devices/IPs etc instead now.

 

Edit:

 

Also, it looks like your account is still active: http://steamcommunity.com/id/emn1ty or is that a new account?

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This.

 

Neo was talking about the whole of Steam vanishing and our game collections with it, which won't happen.

 

Steam support is pretty terrible I hear. I've never had any issues myself but read about it all the time on Reddit. I'd give it another go and contact support again if I were you Emn1ty. I don't believe deactivated accounts exist anymore and you can definitely get them back once they've investigated and provided proof you're the original owner. They use "cooldown" features to stop people buying/trading on your account when you log in from new devices/IPs etc instead now.

 

Edit:

 

Also, it looks like your account is still active: http://steamcommunity.com/id/emn1ty or is that a new account?

 

It's a new account, this one is under a different login with my display name set to that. This was back in mid 2000's so I doubt the old account even exists anymore. You guys don't have to believe me but the reality is that the account was taken and they refused to cooperate with me. Regardless of whether or not their disposition or process has changed Valve does have that power.

I also don't appreciate that Valve can put up all the disclaimers and niceties they want and people will believe them at face value, but with Microsoft it's all a conspiracy/scam/lie/facade. Really getting tired of the double standards (not directed at anyone in particular).

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It's a new account, this one is under a different login with my display name set to that. This was back in mid 2000's so I doubt the old account even exists anymore. You guys don't have to believe me but the reality is that the account was taken and they refused to cooperate with me. Regardless of whether or not their disposition or process has changed Valve does have that power.

I also don't appreciate that Valve can put up all the disclaimers and niceties they want and people will believe them at face value, but with Microsoft it's all a conspiracy/scam/lie/facade. Really getting tired of the double standards.

 

Nobody is calling you a liar Emn1ty. I already told you I'm well aware of horror stories about Steam support, but you're barking up the wrong tree and going off on a tangent that neither myself or Neodorable were discussing. You've lost your account to a hijacker. Neo and I were talking about Steam closing down and everyone losing their accounts / games completely.

 

I'm also suggesting to give it another go as it could be a different story now and not to settle for one support agent in the mid-2000s answer. It's quite possible you'll still be SOL, sometimes they won't do a thing to reset a password/switch email despite all the proof in the world. But the techniques for locking accounts have changed over the years so you may have better luck now. Worth a shot at least IMO.

 

Every digital distributor has the ability to take away games from your account. Valve, MS, Sony and Nintendo and it's not limited to Gen8 or games alone, PSN/XBL/NN are retractable too. Even Apple and Google for mobile can do it. Some of them have built up more trust than others with their customers, so you can't hold a grudge on gamers over that. It could change over night if any one of them went back on their words, but you can't change the opinions or lead a one man army to make others agree with you. Clearly you came to terms with it somewhat or you wouldn't have signed up for another account and bought another 100+ games.

 

Double standards irk me too, including those by MS and the fans, but what are you gonna do...Just worry about your consoles/games and speak with your wallet when you don't like something.

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Double standards irk me too, including those by MS and the fans, but what are you gonna do...Just worry about your consoles/games and speak with your wallet when you don't like something.

 

I'm just tired of it is all, and I'll point it out when I see it. Too many people here are okay with pointing fingers and doubling back on it when it involves something they like. Valve gets away with it cause they have sales (hardly an excuse), Sony gets away with it cause they aren't Microsoft. Microsoft gets pinned to the wall for everything as if it's some revolutionary travesty to the gaming world despite not only having done similar in the past buy other companies follow/have followed in the same footsteps.

 

Just kinda wish people would start looking at facts. And others would stop preaching propaganda.

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Just kinda wish people would start looking at facts. And others would stop preaching propaganda.



It happens a lot. People get so focused on something or some company that its hard to see beyond the preconceptions they have. Call it blinders or being narrow minded, but the result is individual people picking and choosing when an issue matters.

All you can do is try to not fall into the same trap they do. Hopefully the example becomes infectious.

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Nobody is calling you a liar Emn1ty. I already told you I'm well aware of horror stories about Steam support, but you're barking up the wrong tree and going off on a tangent that neither myself or Neodorable were discussing. You've lost your account to a hijacker. Neo and I were talking about Steam closing down and everyone losing their accounts / games completely.

 

I'm also suggesting to give it another go as it could be a different story now and not to settle for one support agent in the mid-2000s answer. It's quite possible you'll still be SOL, sometimes they won't do a thing to reset a password/switch email despite all the proof in the world. But the techniques for locking accounts have changed over the years so you may have better luck now. Worth a shot at least IMO.

 

Every digital distributor has the ability to take away games from your account. Valve, MS, Sony and Nintendo and it's not limited to Gen8 or games alone, PSN/XBL/NN are retractable too. Even Apple and Google for mobile can do it. Some of them have built up more trust than others with their customers, so you can't hold a grudge on gamers over that. It could change over night if any one of them went back on their words, but you can't change the opinions or lead a one man army to make others agree with you. Clearly you came to terms with it somewhat or you wouldn't have signed up for another account and bought another 100+ games.

 

Double standards irk me too, including those by MS and the fans, but what are you gonna do...Just worry about your consoles/games and speak with your wallet when you don't like something.

 

Hold on, i didn't mean to stir a hornet's nest here. I understand what you mean Andy, but that screengrab with all due respect is from Valve's own customer service. Enron customer service also had the same claims and measures in place, i'm sure...

 

While i don't believe Steam will shut down any time soon and i also believe Valve are overall decent people and i have much gratitude and respect for what they do, you are simply taking their word for it. There are measures in place...well, what measures and who's to say they will bother implementing them rather than run for the hills and vanish? I was merely saying that this is unprecedented, and we simply don't have enough experience with this. Remember Amazon deleting that lady's Kindle library? They only gave it back to her after public outcry, legally if i recall correctly there was not much she could have done to force their hand.

 

Emnity's case sounds legit, and i feel his pain. This sort of thing has happened many times on Xbox Live and PSN as well. Again, an all-online entertainment landscape is something we don't really have much history with, which is why the reaction to Don's announcements and vision was so negative. The public reaction (mine as well in part) was classic early 18th century famers-grabbing-pitchforks to destroy the new machines the factory owner has unveiled.

 

These things take time, and they require more subtlety on the part of people who want to implement said things. They also require changes in legislation, which i'm not sure we have.

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Posted

Why did you even post this? We don't have the restrictions... Waste of time to have written it, me reading it, and replying to it lol
Why did you even post this? We don't have the restrictions... Waste of time to have written it, me reading it, and replying to it lol
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Why did you even post this? We don't have the restrictions... Waste of time to have written it, me reading it, and replying to it lol
Why did you even post this? We don't have the restrictions... Waste of time to have written it, me reading it, and replying to it lol

 

That was surreal man, I liked it!

 

And the whole thread I guess is sort of hypothetical, though I have a personal feeling that when X1 finally goes global in Sept a lot of these content controls will be re-introduced.

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