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Borrowing or Theft


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#1 Allan®

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 16:57

Simple question (no, it's NOT homework, I'm no longer in school.)

If "Tina" takes something belonging to "Zoe" - be it money, an umbrella, food, a car, clothes, or toiletries - without permission from Zoe... even if "Tina" intends to return it later. Is it "borrowing" the item, or is it "theft".

I feel if you are borrowing something, you've gotten permission of the owner of the object to use it, and return it, in similar condition to what you took it.
Taking it without asking, and returning it later, I think, is still theft, as you didn't have permission in the first place.

To be clear: taking something without permission (no matter the size of the object) - is it "borrowing" or "theft" discuss!

 

Edited because Neowin doesn't have polls.




#2 Thrackerzod

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 16:59

Taking something without permission or the owner's knowledge is theft regardless of your intention to return it later.

 

You can't borrow something without permission. :)



#3 Geoffrey B.

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:03

Taking something without permission or the owner's knowledge is theft regardless of your intention to return it later.

 

You can't borrow something without permission. :)

+1



#4 Lord Method Man

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:03

Somehow I knew the answer would be "theft" just from reading the thread title.

 

When in doubt...



#5 OP Allan®

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:04

I agree w/ both of you.  My ex-roommate and landlord seem to think it's not.
My ex-roommate liked to take food, money, umbrellas, and even soap, without asking, and than would only return them when I asked about them.



#6 Co_Co

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:08

lets say you borrow without permission and return it before the owner knows its gone, hey i borrowed your umbrella while you were at work. still theft????

 

lets say you borrow an item from a roommate or sibling and know that permission should be implied is it still theft? you guys are assuming everyone is a sneak thief 

 

sure you should always ask but in many many cases its not feasible. just playing devils advocate here 



#7 Thrackerzod

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:09

lets say you borrow without permission and return it before the owner knows its gone, hey i borrowed your umbrella while you were at work. still theft????

 

lets say you borrow an item from a roommate or sibling and know that permission should be implied is it still theft? you guys are assuming everyone is a sneak thief 

 

sure you should always ask but in many many cases its not feasible. just playing devils advocate here 

 

I think in some cases depending on your relationship with the person and the item you took there could be implied consent. Like if I needed a step ladder and I went to my parent's house and they weren't home but I took theirs to use, I know that my dad wouldn't mind me using it so I would call that borrowing. A roommate taking food, money, or even umbrellas without asking you though... yeah that is definitely theft. Especially money, I would never dream of taking cash from anyone without permission no matter who it is.



#8 OP Allan®

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:11

lets say you borrow without permission and return it before the owner knows its gone, hey i borrowed your umbrella while you were at work. still theft????

 

lets say you borrow an item from a roommate or sibling and know that permission should be implied is it still theft? you guys are assuming everyone is a sneak thief 

 

sure you should always ask but in many many cases its not feasible. just playing devils advocate here 

I go up stairs to my landlords house (I've been given permission to go in, and hang out, eat some of the food, or play PS3), take his car keys, go do the store, and return before he realizes I took the car.
Is that Grand Theft Auto?  Is it ONLY theft when the owner realizes the item is gone?  So as long as someone hides their theft, it's ok?



#9 Hum

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 23:28

I'd say it depends on the relationship you have with the friend and 'borrower'.

But a really good friend would ask first.

#10 Secular Humanist

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 23:38

depends on item/circumstance



#11 Rohdekill

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 23:40

It's theft regardless how you perceive the scenario and how you "think" the other person might mind it being taken.

 

You take your parents ladder without permission, you stole it.  You return it and notify them, you're apologizing for the theft.  He/she says they didn't mind, your theft is excused.  They say you're welcome to take it anytime, you're borrowing it next time.



#12 xendrome

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 23:44

depends on item/circumstance

 

Not really.. The law is very clear, this is the Florida law, most states are very similar

 

812.014 Theft.—
(1) A person commits theft if he or she knowingly obtains or uses, or endeavors to obtain or to use, the property of another with intent to, either temporarily or permanently:
(a) Deprive the other person of a right to the property or a benefit from the property.
(b) Appropriate the property to his or her own use or to the use of any person not entitled to the use of the property.


#13 Buttus

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 23:55

I'm just going to borrow $100,000 from that bank, without their permission.   I promise that I'll return it later. 



#14 Secular Humanist

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 00:23

 

Not really.. The law is very clear, this is the Florida law, most states are very similar

 

812.014 Theft.—
(1) A person commits theft if he or she knowingly obtains or uses, or endeavors to obtain or to use, the property of another with intent to, either temporarily or permanently:
(a) Deprive the other person of a right to the property or a benefit from the property.
(b) Appropriate the property to his or her own use or to the use of any person not entitled to the use of the property.

 

i went to a friends house yesterday and used his wifi without asking since i was on my cell phone. then i went into kitchen and grabbed a glass of water where i used his water. after then i used the washroom and used more water by flushing the toilet and then used his soap to wash. then later we had some food and used to hand cloths, salt and even utensils without asking. All this whole time I was also using the lighting in his house without asking since it was dark out and then that would include his power too. And that's only 1 friend on 1 visit on 1 day. imagine how much i steal in a week from all my friends. but it works out since they steal from me all the time too when they come over.

 

like i suggested, depends on item/circumstance



#15 leesmithg

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 00:45

Taking something without permission or the owner's knowledge is theft regardless of your intention to return it later.

 

You can't borrow something without permission. :)

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