Even Sony doesn

[trooper11]

PS4 its the only console avaliable for real hardcore gamers, XBOXO its like for more flexible and passive gamers, WiU its... KAWAIIIII!

That's incorrect, but its cool if you feel that way personally. I would just dispute that in general. I like the little insult thrown in there :laugh:

Sony looked at what Microsoft did with the Xbox 360 and essentially did the same with the PS4

Microsoft made every mistake Sony did with the PS3 launch with the Xbox One

Sony used the massive amounts of bad PR the Xbox One was getting to their advantage

 

Credit where credit is due, Sony played it well this time and most importantly told gamers what they wanted to hear. This is coming from an Xbox One owner too.

The difference between Sony's ps3 issues and MS' X1 is that MS reversed course in huge ways very quickly unlike Sony. Heck, they made a major reversal before it even launched. Supposedly, these reversals are good, but that's not reflected in sales or public support. For Sony, it took quite a while for them to get things right and win people over again. MS may never get that kind of support back however.

 

I'd get the multiplats for the PS4 because of better graphics fidelity, resolution and/or fps compared to the Xbox One. Check the resolution gate thread for differences between the games.

You did see he mentioned playing with friends right? You make a good point though, always check the resolution guide as several multiplatform games are now being released at the same quality unlike before.

[Astra.Xtreme]

I'm willing to bet it had A LOT to do with the price.  

 

I sure as hell wouldn't pay an extra $100 for a Kinect that I don't want.  Microsoft made the right move to cut it, but it's too late.

[McKay]

Until recently it was $100 cheaper. Plus it's more powerful, where's the confusion? Maybe they expected the fans to refuse to switch platform? Just like they assumed PS2 fans would all accept the PS3 hilarious price-tag.

[trooper11]

I sure as hell wouldn't pay an extra $100 for a Kinect that I don't want.  Microsoft made the right move to cut it, but it's too late.

Much too late, even though that's a funny statement considering both consoles have been out less than a year. How interesting that it can all be over in a matter of months.

But you still had those that were clamoring for that change and were just so sure that it would mean better X1 sales. Either they just said that to spur the change or they just got it way wrong.

[Mr. Gibs]

Because MS fudged their launch by coming across as anti-consumer with poorly thought out DRM, a higher price for a weaker box, and the mandatory bundling of Kinect.

You mean how Sony had pretty much the exact same plans as MS before the Xbox console launch?

They hurriedly changed their plans after their noticed that the Xbox reveal didn't go to well. Which is a good thing sure because they listened to consumers fast but it also makes all their crap about "we only care about gamers and always doing things right" to be total BS. Who knows what would have happened if Sony had their reveal before MS.

1. They were planning to have similar DRM that the xbox did just without the game sharing.

2. They were planning on bundling the PS Eye (which is not even close to Kinect) and selling it for $100 more, just like the Xbox one.

MS screwed up, Sony took note and quickly changed their plans and rode on that PR BS.

[dead.cell]

but they're not dominating in Japan...sales are terrible...the Wii U is selling more and those numbers are terrible as well (in japan)

Give it time.

 

My point was in regards to growth outside of Japan, their focus giving them traction to continue to outsell the Xbox even with less supply early on and a big release with Titanfall. Whether they can hold up against the Kinectless price is still to be determined.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

You mean how Sony had pretty much the exact same plans as MS before the Xbox console launch?

They hurriedly changed their plans after their noticed that the Xbox reveal didn't go to well. Which is a good thing sure because they listened to consumers fast but it also makes all their crap about "we only care about gamers and always doing things right" to be total BS. Who knows what would have happened if Sony had their reveal before MS.

1. They were planning to have similar DRM that the xbox did just without the game sharing.

2. They were planning on bundling the PS Eye (which is not even close to Kinect) and selling it for $100 more, just like the Xbox one.

MS screwed up, Sony took note and quickly changed their plans and rode on that PR BS.

 

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/4/4494046/sony-had-no-intention-of-playstation-4-used-games-drm-according-to

[Brendeth]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/4/4494046/sony-had-no-intention-of-playstation-4-used-games-drm-according-to

 

They probably dropped plans well before MS' kerfuffle but it doesn't change the fact they did consider it at one point - what with that anti-used games patent.

 

[Mr. Gibs]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/4/4494046/sony-had-no-intention-of-playstation-4-used-games-drm-according-to

Yeah Sony just went through all the effort to file a "used game DRM" patent for no reason right?

And of course the CEO is openly going to say "hey guys we were going to screw you over like MS but now we want to pretend to be white knights"

Come on now Audioboxer.

[DeltaXray]

Although Xbox have made many key decisions to start turning it around, i'm still more inclined to get a Wii U to suppliment my PS4 than I am to go out and get an Xbox One.  Currently when I look at the One all I see is paying the same amount for a less powerful box. There aren't any 'must have' games out for it currently.  Although I love Forza, they seem to have rushed forza 5 for the consoles launch so seems like more of a demo with the lack of content. I think the next proper Forza could be a console seller for me though.  That being said the MKV support with DLNA might sway that sooner.

 

They probably dropped plans well before MS' kerfuffle but it doesn't change the fact they did consider it at one point - what with that anti-used games patent.


 

People file patents for the sake of it all the time even if they have no plans to release it.

 

I would have been surprised if sony didn't consider the DRM.  Smart people sit down and look at ALL options when they are going to launch a new product.  It is then they have to look at everything on the table, and decide what is right for them.  And it looks like they did that and released what evidently people wanted.  There's no shame in them having looked at all of the options, it only matters what they actually decided to go with.

[BajiRav]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/4/4494046/sony-had-no-intention-of-playstation-4-used-games-drm-according-to

So we get multiple pages long threads because we can't take MS exec comments at face value but then we should just accept what Sony exec says? Sounds about right.

 

Although Xbox have made many key decisions to start turning it around, i'm still more inclined to get a Wii U to suppliment my PS4 than I am to go out and get an Xbox One. Currently when I look at the One all I see is paying the same amount for a less powerful box. There aren't any 'must have' games out for it currently. Although I love Forza, they seem to have rushed forza 5 for the consoles launch so seems like more of a demo with the lack of content. I think the next proper Forza could be a console seller for me though. That being said the MKV support with DLNA might sway that sooner.

People file patents for the sake of it all the time even if they have no plans to release it.

I would have been surprised if sony didn't consider the DRM. Smart people sit down and look at ALL options when they are going to launch a new product. It is then they have to look at everything on the table, and decide what is right for them. And it looks like they did that and released what evidently people wanted. There's no shame in them having looked at all of the options, it only matters what they actually decided to go with.

Not disagreeing with you but just wanted to say that Sony already has a similar DRM scheme in place for PS+. So the system is there for PS+ (and GwG), they just decided to not use it system wide for whatever reason.

[DeltaXray]

So we get multiple pages long threads because we can't take MS exec comments at face value but then we should just accept what Sony exec says? Sounds about right.

 

Not disagreeing with you but just wanted to say that Sony already has a similar DRM scheme in place for PS+. So the system is there for PS+ (and GwG), they just decided to not use it system wide for whatever reason.

Digital content is different though. There needs to be some kind of DRM whereby it is tied to your account, otherwise you could just copy a file and give it to anyone to play.

 

Physical media is different because they can't just be copied. There are parts of the disc normal consumer devices won't copy so when you trade in a disc, then it is a given you no longer have the game and aren't going to continue to play it. They just can't not build in DRM for digital media, they need some kind of game trade system (which microsoft were planning to do and then got slated for...)

 

PS+ is a little different again in terms of licencing since you are paying your subscription to play it and agree that if you stop paying then you accept you can no longer play the games. That is *necessary* DRM as agreed when you sign up for the service, in order for that service to work. Physical used game DRM ins't necessary at all.

[trooper11]

Although Xbox have made many key decisions to start turning it around, i'm still more inclined to get a Wii U to suppliment my PS4 than I am to go out and get an Xbox One.  Currently when I look at the One all I see is paying the same amount for a less powerful box. There aren't any 'must have' games out for it currently.  Although I love Forza, they seem to have rushed forza 5 for the consoles launch so seems like more of a demo with the lack of content. I think the next proper Forza could be a console seller for me though.  That being said the MKV support with DLNA might sway that sooner.

It always comes down to games. You can focus on power all you want, but obviously that is not a big deal if your going to get a WiiU. Once the X1 has games you want, you'll get one.

The X1 already has a lineup that matches the ps4, but that does not mean it has something for everyone. That requires time.

Also, it shows how MS' changes, changes demanded by the community, don't actually spur sales. Instead, they just lead to different criticisms that result in a wash sales wise. The real fix to sales is to just continue getting quality content out there. Gamers will come.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Yeah Sony just went through all the effort to file a "used game DRM" patent for no reason right?

And of course the CEO is openly going to say "hey guys we were going to screw you over like MS but now we want to pretend to be white knights"

Come on now Audioboxer.

 

 

So we get multiple pages long threads because we can't take MS exec comments at face value but then we should just accept what Sony exec says? Sounds about right.

 

Not disagreeing with you but just wanted to say that Sony already has a similar DRM scheme in place for PS+. So the system is there for PS+ (and GwG), they just decided to not use it system wide for whatever reason.

 

 

PS+ is based around a timebomb that can exist completely offline. You do not need to go online ever after activating PS+ and downloading a months content. You could happily keep your PS4 off for the next 5 years and all that would happen is in 12 months the games with the timebomb wouldn't work. Not a similar DRM practice as what MS proposed at all.

 

I think the used game sharing video make it pretty damn obvious they weren't going to touch used games either - Ever heard of game/gamestop/participating retailers say Sony were on board? No, it was just MS.

 

So either we have the biggest cover up in the gaming world and behind the scenes complete and utter overhaul of the PS4 without anyone knowing, and no need for a day 1 patch to turn off this PS4 DRM that you all seemingly know about, or we settle with occams razor.

[BajiRav]

1. Whoever made that major nelson thing has no idea how software is developed.

2. A time bomb that goes after 1 year against one that goes after 24hrs. Big difference I guess but just one variable in the DRM scheme.

3. Two Sony execs in the used game video that came much after backlash had already begun. Good PR for sure.

4. I have no idea which participating retailers mentioned what. AFAIK MS didn't officially announce any retailer for selling used games because that feature wasn't going to be available at launch.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

1. Whoever made that major nelson thing has no idea how software is developed.

2. A time bomb that goes after 1 year against one that goes after 24hrs. Big difference I guess but just one variable in the DRM scheme.

3. Two Sony execs in the used game video that came much after backlash had already begun. Good PR for sure.

4. I have no idea which participating retailers mentioned what. AFAIK MS didn't officially announce any retailer for selling used games because that feature wasn't going to be available at launch.

 

1. That's the point, if Sony had similar DRM rolling out they to would have to patch it out and we would have vastly more tangible evidence to support it than people on gaming forums going "but if MS were doing it Sony will have been to!"

2. Well you could buy 10 years of PS+ if you wanted to waste your money lol.

3. That wasn't actually planned, Shuhei and Adam Boyes asked Andrew House if they could do it... he gave in and approved. All that was originally planned was what Jack done on stage. It's somewhere in one of these two interviews 1 & 2

4. http://www.videogamer.com/news/game_to_work_hand-in-hand_with_publishers_on_xbox_one_drm_2.html

[Mr. Gibs]

So either we have the biggest cover up in the gaming world and behind the scenes complete and utter overhaul of the PS4 without anyone knowing, and no need for a day 1 patch to turn off this PS4 DRM that you all seemingly know about, or we settle with occams razor.

Yeah complete and utter overhaul right. Both manufacturers had a pretty long time between reveal and release date to fix things like that.

You make fun of Microsoft being able to do it before release date, but apparently Sony couldn't do that. I'm sure Sony just filed for all those DRM patents for nothing, they had absolutely no plans whatsoever to implement them at all.

Keep proving your incredible amount of bias. Because when MS says something, you make fun of it and never take it at face value. But when Sony does, it's "Oh my god this is the law of the land and cannot be false"

Like I already said, I don't think it's a bad thing that Sony changed their minds and got rid of things. MS did the exact same thing and I applaud both companies for listening to users and making the changes that the users wanted, even if I don't agree with 100% of those changes.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Yeah complete and utter overhaul right. Both manufacturers had a pretty long time between reveal and release date to fix things like that.

You make fun of Microsoft being able to do it before release date, but apparently Sony couldn't do that. I'm sure Sony just filed for all those DRM patents for nothing, they had absolutely no plans whatsoever to implement them at all.

Keep proving your incredible amount of bias. Because when MS says something, you make fun of it and never take it at face value. But when Sony does, it's "Oh my god this is the law of the land and cannot be false"

Like I already said, I don't think it's a bad thing that Sony changed their minds and got rid of things. MS did the exact same thing and I applaud both companies for listening to users and making the changes that the users wanted, even if I don't agree with 100% of those changes.

 

When you work for Sony your apparent word of gospel about what went on behind the scenes might be taken more seriously, until then excuse me if I'd rather look at the evidence to make my decision.

[vcfan]

Okay... The real reason is I won the lottery and bought a couple of warehouses worth. I was trying to keep it secret, but my conscious told me I better tell Neowin.

you could have just bought sony altogether.

[Mr. Gibs]

When you work for Sony your apparent word of gospel about what went on behind the scenes might be taken more seriously, until then excuse me if I'd rather look at the evidence to make my decision.

Oh but of course, but clearly you must work for Microsoft since you post a ton of gospel about them and then complain about taking things at face value.

[trooper11]

When you work for Sony your apparent word of gospel about what went on behind the scenes might be taken more seriously, until then excuse me if I'd rather look at the evidence to make my decision.

You guys are both arguing as if you work for MS or Sony.

Its a stalemate unless someone from one of those companies wants to shed more light on it. The only reason the debate can even exist is due to not having inside knowledge.

So each of you can believe what you want, but there is no definitive answer.

Regardless, the past is the past. Neither MS nor Sony went through with any serious DRM schemes and we are better for it. MS is just going to take a beating since they made public pr blunders instead of making subtle efforts to roll something out that people would be ok with it. So even though they changed before launch, people still punished them. Even after moving away from Kinect and dropping the price, people still punish them. Its basically legacy damage and MS must keep pushing forward until it fades.

Now we see both Sony and MS start to evolve digital content along with introducing more subtle forms of drm that are acceptable by most.

As long as MS keeps doing good things, the criticisms will fade.

[seta-san]

everything good for XBOne will eventually end up on PC while many Japanese game publishers seem pretty loyal to releasing exclusively on japanese systems.. or doing poor ports often times years later.

[0nyX]

Common sense

[dvb2000]

I think it's easy to see a combination of factors:

 

1. Decent hardware
2. A very good PR campaign prior and and after the console launch.
3. Microsoft's PR incompetence.
4. Lower priced console than the XB1
5. Sold as a "traditional console" rather than a do-everything entertainment box.
6. Lack of interest in the WiiU.

 

the xbox one also moved to Microsoft's "metro" style interface didn't it?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Okay lets try to add some humour

 

 

https://twitter.com/FuturLab/status/503506765024358401