irdawood Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 hey u remminded me on a journel i read that the american bombs in afghanistan killed 3000+ people who were not taliban or anything to do with any army and were just civillians i heard this on the BBC as well the story went on for a day or so then nothing...hmm weird...weird how we dont hear things and how all our media is controlled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisinfectedDuck Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by irdawood hey u remminded me on a journel i read that the american bombs in afghanistan killed 3000+ people who were not taliban or anything to do with any army and were just civillians i heard this on the BBC as well the story went on for a day or so then nothing...hmm weird...weird how we dont hear things and how all our media is controlled Well, accidents happen. You can't say the U.S deliberatley killed those people.. The Israeli army has also made mistakes and will make in the futures. The only mistakes of that sort that I welcome is those when terrorists explode while working on their bombs.. (Happened quite alot here this year) It actually makes you smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtgriffith Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 War is not a perfect science Irdawood. It's hard to fight an army that does not wear a uniform and hides among the civilian population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YahoKa Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to stop war is to fight it. These are not really soldiers though. Just cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariusu Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by mtgriffith War is not a perfect science Irdawood. It's hard to fight an army that does not wear a uniform and hides among the civilian population. just my words... i also saw a report where children were trained to blow themselves up...children you understand? how shozld a soldier know if the child coming in his direction is full of dynamite or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel B Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prash Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 u have all the rights to be annoyed, i woudl eb furious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMaster Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by mariusu oh, man...and wasn't america an english colony? your argument is bad... Actually, both Canada and the USA were Native American property which were overtaken by Europeans by brute force in much the same was as what happened in Asia and South America. That's the true history. To get to the point, I think to settle this dispute, one can't look at whoose right and whose wrong. Perhaps both Arafat and Sharon are each right. Perhaps both are wrong. Perhaps only one of them is right. 1 + 1 = 3 or does it eqaul 2? Its all a matter of one's perspective. There will never be a bilateral agreement on this issue. To settle this dispute, one has to come to an agreement in which both parties profit EQUALLY. I also think international support cannot be unilateral. The US foreign policy is only in favor of Israel. If they feel Arafat is the wrong person to settle the dispute with, find someone else. I really don't want to see any more bloodshed over political agendas. My heart go out to everyone suffering out there. It's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dARKSTAr Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 there have been a few posters who obviously are israeli, but it's too bad that we don't here a palestinian perspective in this discussion. I think that dotbatman hit it on the head though. the problem with any war/military conflict is that atrocities are committed on both sides, and these atrocities are what feeds the fire of hatred so that the killing can go on and on and on...Disinfected Duck, i hear what you are saying, that you can't negotiate with terrorists. However, if israel and the palestinians don't talk, then will the war ever end? will the suicide bombings ever stop? or is the answer genocide until only the israelis are left. i doubt, at least i hope, that you aren't calling for genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 As a muslim myself living in Canada i have to say that all suicide bombing is wrong, that is not the religion that was taught to me, it was taught that one should love your neighbour, be it your enemy or your friend, taking ur life in the name of religion by killing innocent ppl is plain wrong and the actions of Israel is justified WHEN they take action against the terrorist groups BUT, there have been a lot of palestinian women and children killed 100 times tenfold compared to any opposite side, and it is sad that people dont pay attention to that, they just call it Collateral Damage. now remember Osama bin Laden also called the WTC a collateral damage when it came to women and children, thats very sad. When you look at American television media all you see what is the Israel`s point of view, while when i see. TVR (France), BBC, Asian TV east asian countries, they give the palestinian pains as well, i have NEVER seen a 30 minute segment on 21 school going palestinian children killed with a Israel army bomb but you get an 1 hour long coverage for 1 israeli child from the American Media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Amazing to see such a contradictory view between American and the rest of western media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisinfectedDuck Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 Darkstar - We'll never call foe genocide, I can assure you of that. Jewish people know what genocide is. Perhaps they know it the best. People in Israel will never forget the holocaust, and many people living here are either survivors or sons & daughters of survivors. Israel wants peace and quiet. That's it. The people here are tired. Tired of 53 years of hostility, which was ALWAYS, ALWAYS started by the Arabs, Israel's neighbours. Until the palestinian nation will wake up, and realize where they are heading with this bloody intifada, this blood-shed will continue. They are the struggling side, and I agree they should have their country, but not in this manner. Killing babies and kids and women and old men is driven by simple hatred and barbarism, not patriotism. I just saw today's news edition in Israel. I saw one of the saddest thing i've ever seen - A grandmother buried her entire family. 7 people - her son, and her grandsons. How can a woman who lost her entire family in one evening continue to live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 remember i said violence should not be a part in any conflict or anything else, the palestinian CAUSE (for thier land) is justified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postertoad Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Agreed, Mariusu's argument is not only horrible but terribly ignorant. It is, however, a great analogy to the Palistinian/Isreali issue. The primary difference being that genocide was not as swiftly carried out and has led instead to a '50 years war'. One should always question their history books and look for the motivations behind historical events. It would probably surprise many of you to know that the Isreali Governement is the real criminal in this situation. The Palestinians resort to rocks and suicide bombings because the are not funded and trained by a world superpower, unlike their oppressors who recieve millions in arms and millitary training from the US. Palestinians are beaten, tortured, and killed everyday by the Isreali Para-Military. And you wonder why they are so full of hate???? Please dont misunderstand what I am saying. Killing is wrong, but if we are to stop it then we need to look at why it occurs and be prepared to make justifiable sacrafices. Also dont think I am in anyway against people of the Jewish faith as my information comes from active Anti-Zionist Jews. People, please dont fly off the emotional handle and scream eye for an eye. Thats why the world is in the mess its in. Might does not make right. ~Toad If the Isreali people truelly want peace, then they will need to stand up to their government and say enough is enough. [it would probably help if the USers stood up to their government as well.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo1980 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 the palestinians will eventually wake up and stop supporting the terrorist groups, but they will not stop at getting wat they should have had 50 years ago, thier own land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisinfectedDuck Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by neo1980 the palestinians will eventually wake up and stop supporting the terrorist groups, but they will not stop at getting wat they should have had 50 years ago, thier own land That's your opinion. The palestinians never had a land in Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postertoad Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Originally posted by DisinfectedDuck That's your opinion. The palestinians never had a land in Israel. True ... they had land in Palestine, which is where????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisinfectedDuck Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 Another point - you can't blame the IDF for responding on civillian casualties, because the terrorists know very well that Israel will react. People in America and Europe don't understand that ever since the state of Israel was esatblished, it is fighting for it's survival . That also has to do with the refugee problem - Israel would NEVER accept taking them back, as it will simply mean the end of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orphic Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Yep. This world is in more trouble than michael jackson with an A S S full of tinker toys... That's why I just sit back in my cubby hole, code away, and watch all of the chaos come down to what we all know it will come down to. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedkitten Veteran Posted March 3, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 3, 2002 anyone who would sit there and side with ANYONE in this is a complete ****ing retard pure and simple. Anyone ever heard about what happened to the Native Americans? Yeah thats right a bunch of people came over to their land and started killing them left and right and forced them all into areas called reservations to live, and this is pretty much the same as what is happening in Israel except for the fact that the Palestinians aren't bringing out the peace pipes and rolling over to get their bellies rubbed. I'm not condoning or applauding violence from either side but to sit back and act like Israelis have done nothing wrong and are the innocent party is ****ing childish. Both sides are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orphic Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Scottish people disgust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisinfectedDuck Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 I'm not saying, and never said that Israel is innocent and was swept into this situation. Israel made many mistakes. In this thread I was just expressing my grief and rage at recent events. When I say palestinians, I mean palestinians that support terror or that are involved in terrorist acts. Israel has indeed over-reacted a couple of times and cause unnecessery damage. Many many people here don't agree or accept what the govermnent is doing, and I think that the days of this govermnent are numbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtgriffith Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 If the Isreali people truelly want peace, then they will need to stand up to their government and say enough is enough. You had better watch what you wish for. When the Isreali poeple have had enough of these terrorists there will be hell to pay. They will quit listening to the Americans asking them to have restraint and EU telling them to sit down at the bargaining table.Anyone ever heard about what happened to the Native Americans? The English settlers started that didn't they? They brought their slaves with them too didn't they? Don't think that your country hasn't had its share of sins too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postertoad Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Another point - you can't blame the PLO for responding on civillian casualties, because the IDF know very well that Palestine will react. Its cyclical ... someone needs to not respond to violence with more violence .... and since Isreal is currently in power, I would say its their responisiblity. The refugees are definately an issue ... but just because your family is too big does not give you the right to give your neighbors house away. Yes, Isreal has been fighting for it survival from day one. If it wasnt for a certain vote hungry US president, the UN would never have recognised Isreal as a State in the first place. Any .. history is history. I feel for the pain you have to live with but bloodsoaked retalitiation is not the answer. I know plenty of Palestinians and Isrealites here in the US that get along wonderfully. It is possible. ......... [[ franticaly tries to account for all me tinker toys]] .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dARKSTAr Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 neo1980, i think things are changing. maybe before 911 the majority of americans and american media only considered the israeli point of view (although there are some notable exceptions unfortunately MOST of those viewpoints came from PBS and non-mainstream media) but since 911 there is an increasing awareness among americans about the muslim world, and an attempt by america to re-evaluate its view of the middle east. there is a pro-israeli slant, certainly, but like a lot of americans, i take what is reported in the mainstream with a grain of salt. by saying that, i don't mean that america doesn't support israel still, but it's becoming quite obvious that it's a bloody, senseless stalemate. here's to hoping that somehow cooler heads will prevail and people will start to discuss a way to coexist. but, regardless of which side you take, we are also talking about land that has been fought over for thousands of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts