PS3 hardware scaler?

[MadFerIt]

I believe the Xbox360 only upscales DVD's through the VGA output. The PS3 can upscale, but it's got some scaling problems for people who don't support TV's with 720p.

So, if you have a 720p game or move and your HDTV doesn't support 720p, it'll down scale to 480p rather than upscale to 1080i.

See this is funny, the laws prevent any upscaling of DVD content to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p over a Component connection. However, VGA is currently the exception and is allowed to do pretty much anything in terms of upscaling. This isn't something restricted to the 360, you might notice some DVD players that upscale will only do it via DVI/HDMI.

It's a pain in the ass obviously, and I really wish HDCP had never been born in the first place. I mean even with that supposed "Digital Security" HD-DVD/Blueray is still being ripped and pirated, and I'm bloody sure someone will find a way to get around other HDCP signals.. So in the end it's just a pain for consumers and it doesn't do anything worth the trouble to avoid pirating.

[profets]

I believe the Xbox360 only upscales DVD's through the VGA output. The PS3 can upscale, but it's got some scaling problems for people who don't support TV's with 720p.

So, if you have a 720p game or move and your HDTV doesn't support 720p, it'll down scale to 480p rather than upscale to 1080i.

thanks for the reply.. the reason i'm asking is cause i have both 360 & a ps3, hooked up with component and hdmi respectively. the tv can handle 720p, 1080i, 1080p. with the ps3 games, some i see run at 1080p, and some at 720p, depending on the game. i see the 360 with component is always running at 1080i.

but with both ps3, 360, dvds are always outputted to the tv at 480p.. thats why i was curious about it in my initial question. i guess the 360 may be able to upscale over vga, but it seems that the ps3 definitely doesnt do it over hdmi.

[ToneKnee]

See this is funny, the laws prevent any upscaling of DVD content to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p over a Component connection. However, VGA is currently the exception and is allowed to do pretty much anything in terms of upscaling. This isn't something restricted to the 360, you might notice some DVD players that upscale will only do it via DVI/HDMI.

It's a pain in the ass obviously, and I really wish HDCP had never been born in the first place. I mean even with that supposed "Digital Security" HD-DVD/Blueray is still being ripped and pirated, and I'm bloody sure someone will find a way to get around other HDCP signals.. So in the end it's just a pain for consumers and it doesn't do anything worth the trouble to avoid pirating.

Didn't know that, thankyou! :)

[ToneKnee]

Well, it sounds like it really doesn't have a Hardware scaler after all. The new SDK allows horizontal scaling which is apparently easy to do with Software, but Vertical scaling requires a Hardware scaler?

[Corris Veteran]

I found this an interesting read.

The PS3 hardware scaler: it exists, but Sony may not want it used

The talk about Sony's lack of scaling in their PS3 games has been going since the system was released. While it's arguable how many people the 720p-native games lock out from high definition resolutions, the fact that PS3 games can't support 1080i and Blu-ray movies don't support a 720p resolution is a big knock for the system described as being "true HD."

With the release of the new PS3 SDK to developers, horizontal scaling is now available; we have proof that there is in fact a hardware scaler in the system. This article is slightly technical, and the usefulness of horizontal scaling may be minimal, but this at least gives some hope for the future.

And so we arrive at last to the most recent development, the late January PlayStation 3 SDK update. Amongst the newer versions of the various tools included in the SDK lies a new function: the ability for developers to use some of the functionality of the fabled hardware scaler, a scaler many previously doubted existed at all. Interestingly enough, "some" is the key word when describing the unlocked functionality; SCEI only gave access to hardware accelerated horizontal scaling. Horizontal scaling on its own cannot upscale a 720p image into 1080p/i --this would require both horizontal and vertical scaling. Hence, the newly exposed scaler functionality is not enabled in the PS3's user interface directly, but instead will still require developer support to work.

I'm not sure what can be done with only having access to horizontal scaling, and it's upsetting that this is going to take more work from the developer's end to get scaling to work, but it does seem easy to say that this is a step in the right direction. What I don't understand is why Sony would be so shady about their hardware scaler. Why isn't it being used more? A commenter over at the AVSforums had this to say on the topic, and while we don't know exactly who he is or how accurate his comments are, this may clarify Sony's position on their scaler:

What I'm saying is, there is some inconsistent information with what I know from firsthand. For starters, before the launch of the PS3, you could access the hardware scaler in the SDK. You just were not allowed to use it because your game would not meet approval if you did. Also it makes it sound like developers were not aware of the scaler which is untrue because there was specific documentation stating not to use it. So there's some inconsistant info on what was said in the article to what really happened. I have not checked recently if there has been a change to the information on the scaler, but this is not new news to the PS3 dev community.

If we take these statements at face value—and again that's something of a leap of faith at this point—it seems like Sony does not in any way want people to use their hardware scaler. In fact, if you do use the scaler your game won't be approved for release. Why would Sony want to keep their games hardlocked at specific resolutions?

I hope to hear more about the hardware scaler with future SDK releases, and I'm hoping that developers are given full control of the PS3 hardware in the future. The more adaptable the PS3 is to televisions and different resolutions, the easier it will be for your average consumer to justify the purchase.

Opposable Thumbs

Could just be crap, but who knows.

[soniqstylz]

One of the posts on the IGDA forums said that this may have something to do with the recent fixing of BC issues.